Certamen epistolare, or, The letter-combate. Managed by Peter Heylyn, D.D. with 1. Mr. Baxter of Kederminster. 2. Dr. Barnard of Grays-Inne. 3. Mr. Hickman of Mag. C. Oxon. And 4. J.H. of the city of Westminster Esq; With 5. An appendix to the same, in answer to some passages in Mr. Fullers late Appeal.

Certamen Epistolare , OR , THE Letter-Combate . MANAGED By Peter Heylyn , D. D. With 1. Mr. Baxter of Kederminster ▪ 2. Dr. Barnard of Grays-Inne . 3. Mr. Hickman of Mag. C. Oxon. And 4. J. H. of the City of Westminster Esq With 5. An Appendix to the same , in Answer to some passages in Mr. Fullers late APPEAL .

Ovid. in Epist. Phedrae . Perlege quodcunque est , quid Epistola lecta nocebit , Te quoque in his aliquid , quod juvet , esse Po●est .

LONDON , Printed by J. M. for H. Twyford , ● . Dring , and ● . Place , and are to be sold at their Shops , in Vine-Court in the Middle Temple , at the George near S. Dunstons Church in Fleet-street , and at Furnivals-Inne Gate , in Holburn , 1659.

To my dear Brethren , The poor Remainders of the old Regular and Confromable Clergy of the Church of ENGLAND .

IT was fore-signified by the Prophet , of Christ our Saviour , Arundinem quassam non confringere , &c. That he should not break a bruised Reed , nor so much as quench the smoking flax ; that is to say , as * * Isa. 42. 3. in Mat. 12. &c. Maldionate very well expounds the place , that his goings should be so gentle , and his weight so light , that though he trod upon a bruised Reed , he should not break it ; and though he walked on smoaking flax , yet he should not quench it . Which showeth ( saith he ) quam incredibili mansuetudine , ac Lenitate usurus esset : with what incredible meekness , and incomparable tenderness our Saviour should proceed in all his Actions . The breaking of a bruised Reed was unknown to Christ , though nothing be more frequent in the practise of those , who most pretend to be his followers in their Words and Actings . And if the bruised Reed ought not to be broken , if we are to carry our selves with the spirit of meekness towards all those wich have been bruised onely by ungentle usage ; with how much tenderness and compassion should those men be handled , who have been broken by the blows of unprosperous fortune , and crusht almost to nothing by unmerciful Pressures . For certainly there cannot be a greater Argument of an uncharitable and unchristian disposition , then to insult on those that are oppressed , and add affliction unto such as have suffered wrong ; to multiply Reproaches , even on guilty persons when they have satisfied the Law , and paid their utmost debt to justice . Malice in this respect is far worse then Cruelty , Cruelty many times is satisfied with the blood and death of such as have been marked out for a publick slaughter . But Malice commonly out-lives Cruelty , and will not suffer those to remain in peace on whom the face of heaven hath frownned , & against whom the hands of men have bin lifted up , to their destruction and undoing .

Yet such is the unhappy age in which we live , that nothing is more ordinary then the adding of sorrow to affliction , and reproach to trouble ; practised most commonly by those men who pretend most to follow the example of Christ our Saviour , of which there cannot be a clearer and more evident proof then the procedings of some men towards you ( my dear Brethren ) of the Regular , and conformable Clergy of the Church of England ; smitten into the Den of Dragons , and almost broken to pieces like a Potters vessel : For when the sword had spent its fury , and the hand of power filled it self with subverting so many mens estates , the ejecting some , sequestring others , and sifting almost every one of us to the very bran ; there started up a race of men , who agreed together to afflict them in a further measure , saying to one another ( as did those Sons of Belial ) in the Book of God ) Come let us smite them with the Tongue . The fury of the Sword and the hand of Power hath already laid them open unto want and poverty ; let us expose them therefore to contempt & scorn ; let us add shame unto their sufferings , and sport our selves in their mis-fortunes . These are the men whom God hath smitten , and now we have them down , let us keep them under , not suffering them to rise in Reputation , or revive in credit , for fear of drawing pitty towards their calamities , or some commiseration at the least to their grievous sufferings . It hath been grown into a Proverb , that when a man is once thrown flat upon his back , ( qui jacet in terram &c. ) he could fall no lower . But these men are so cross of nature , and have so long run cross to all publick Order , that now , they will be crossing Proverbs , to bring us lower then we are , disabling us of all means towards our subsistence , and laying all manner of disgraces on us , which either an insolent Enemy could inflict , or an impeverisht Clergy suffer .

This cry first taken up in that uncharitable Pamphlet , Intituled , The first Century of scandalous and malignant Priests , was eagerly pursued by those , who had got their Benefices , whom it concerned to make them seem as foul as they could , the better to justifie the wiping them of their means and livelihoods . And it had been the less considerable , if onely men so interessed by their own concernments had kept up the clamour , and that some others who would fain be looked on as the Sons of the Church , had not continued it as industriously , as it was maliciously begun . One of our Civil Historians * * Hist. of K. Charles , fol. 144. diverting on the late Archbishop of Canterbury , tels us that some of those whom he imploy'd as instruments and subordinates under him , were so far from being blameless , that they were vicious even as to scandal , so far from being of such meek and humble behaviour , as was to be wished , that they were grown insolent , at a rate intollerable . Which though it be as much as could be thronged together in so narrow a compass ; yet falls it infinitely short of that in the * * Ch. Hist . lib. 11. 207 Church Historian : Who speaking of a great and general purgation of the Clergy in the Parliaments Quarters , a little before the coming out of that infamous Century , tels us expresly , that their offences were so foul , as it was a shame to report them crying to justice for punishment , that when Constantine was wont to say , that if he saw a Clergy-man offending , he would cover him with his Cloak , he was to be understood of such offences , as were but frailties and infirmities , not scandalous enormities ; that such unsavory salt was good for nothing , no not for the Dunghil , because as the savour was lost that made it useful , so the freting was left which made it useless , whereby it was so far from being good Composs to fatten Ground , that it did rather make it barren ; and therefore that Baal should be left to plead for himself , there being nothing to be said in their excuse . And thus far he had dipt his Pen in the Gall of Bitterness before he had bethought himself of a salve for it , before he considered whether the crimes had been sufficiently proved , as they never were , which he makes to be the main matter , as indeed it was .

But M. Baxters hand was filtered with a sicker quil , and his Ink mixt with more of the durty puddle , then the Church Historians was with gall and vinegar , when he bespattered the poor Clergy in the Preface to his Book of the Grotian Preface to the Grotian Religion , Ser. 23. Religion , with all the filth that could proceed from a Pen so qualified . I need not ( saith he ) go to M. Whites Centuryes to be acquainted of the qualities of the ejected : our Country have had too many of them , that have long been a burthen instead of a blessing ; some never preached , but read the Common Prayer Book , and some preached much worse then they that were never called Preachers . Some understood not the Catechism or Creed : many of them lived more in the Ale-house then the Church , and used to lead their people in drunkenness , cursing , swearing , quarrelling , and other ungodly practises , and to amend all by railing at the Puritans & Praecisians : some that were better would be drunk but now and then , and preach once a day ( remembring still to meet with the Precise , least their hearers should have any mind to becom Godly ) but neglecting most of the Pastoral cure , and lived much in worldliness and prophaneness , though not so disgracefully as the Rest . Which passage when I read over , it caused in me so great an horror , and amazement , that I could not tell whether I might give any credit to my senses or not ; the words sounding loud in my ears , but not sinking at first into my heart . For who could possibly believe , that one who doth pretend to so much piety , should shew himself the master of so little charity . To all the Acts and offices of which excellent virtue , enumerated by S. Paul in his 1. Epist . to the Corinthians , cap. 13. he hath shewed himself so great a stranger ▪ as if his Soul had never been acquainted with the Graces of it . Such as have thrust themselves into other mens livings , and they who patronize them in it , seem to have quitted all the other properties of Charity to the Sequestred Clergy , and retain only to themselves the not seeking their own . For they seek after the Benefices and Goods of others . The Rear brought up by a young man of * Hickmans defence of the Fathers &c. Magdalen Coll. Oxon ( whom I shall not call a whelp of the same litter , though he hath pleased to give me no other title then that of a bird of the same feather ) who spends his mouth by telling his Reverend brethren of the Brackly breed , that the Episcopal Government will be desired by the bad , and therefore that they should take care that the Good did not wish it restored also ; that the Prelatical oppressions were such as might make wise men mad : that some of the Prelates might with reason be called Antichristian , whose Courts vexed sundry laborious Preachers , becaus they could not bow at the name of Jesus ; when as , sundry idle sots , whom they might frequently observe to stagger in the streets , were never questioned ; and finally he leaves it unto consideration , whether it be not envy rather then conscience , which maketh some to exclaim with so much bitterness , against the late Ejections , Sequestrations & Deprivations : and whether our late Sequestrations were not more justifiable then those proceedings in the late Archbishops times , when men were suspended ab officio & beneficio , meerly for not Reading the Book of sports : In which particulars although he doth not ●ark so loud , yet he bites as close as any other in ●he Pack who have deeper mouths .

I must confess that neither finding my self particularly named in that infamous Century , nor concerned more then any other in those general calumnies , I did not think my self obliged to take notice of them . It was my expectation rather , that some one or other of those who sustained most wrong , would have done themselves the right of a vindication ; and not have suffered those reproaches to have gained belief , by such a dul and dangerous silence . But at the last finding the cry revived by the Civil Historian , the Divine Right of Episcopacy called in question , the Bishops and Clergy ignorantly censured for their Proceedings in Convocation , and the subordinates of the late Archbishops ( whereof I had the honour to be one ) so unhandsomely handled , I thought it my duty to appear in defence of those points , wherein I found the Author either by inadvertency , or want of better intelligence to have been mistaken . And so far I was liberum Agens , prompted by none , but my own good affections to the pulick interess , to that undertaking . But so I cannot say of my engagings with the Church Historian , being solicited thereunto by persons of all Orders , Degrees and stations , as wel Ecclesiastical as Accademical , in the pursuance whereof , I could not but take notice of that passage before laid down , & do the poor Clergy so much right as the nature of an Animadversion might comport withal . Nec solum ad nos haec in juriavenit ab illo , in the Poets words ; it is not we alone , that are the poor sequestred and ejected Clergy , but the whole Church which hath been injured by him in her power and priviledges ; for the asserting whereof , and rectifying such mistakes as I found therein , I first applyed my self unto that performance .

What led me to this Letter-Combate , with M. Baxter , you will find in the discourse it self . In which you may perceive how sensible I am of those reproaches , which he so prodigally casts abroad upon those poor men , whom the late Ordinance for ejecting of ignorant and scandalous Ministers hath brought under his power , I must needs say , I might have slipt my self out of this employment , as one of those whose casting out he hath disowned among many others , under the notion of being Prelatical , and so far interessed in the late Civil Wars , as my attending on the Kings person at Oxon can ascribe unto me . But in this case I will not sever my own interess from that of my Brethren , my brethren not like Simeon and Levi , in the evil of sin , but like to * * Act. Apost. 14. 5. Paul and Barnabas in the evil of Punishment , when used despitefully and threatned to be stoned to death by the men of Iconium . For though we are all guilty through human frailties of our several sins , yet for those sins we stand accomptable onely at the Bar of Heaven : Those scandalous crimes under colour whereof so many of us have received the punishment of Sequestration and Ejection , that the Hands of men , falling so short from being proved , that the nonproseuting of the Evidence to a legal Tryal , may rationally be thought to acquit us of them . And therefore I shall weave up your defence in the same peece with my own , that as we fell together , we may stand together in the recovery of that Reputation which is dearer to us then our lives , not suffering our common Adversaries , to deal with us as Ignorant Jurors do too often in passing their verdict upon the Prisoners at the Bar , when , without consideration of the crimes or evidence , they resolve to save one half , and hang the other .

Whatsoever I have done herein , as it was done chiefly for your sakes , so ( my dear Brethren ) it is wholly submitted to your fair and favourable accepta●ion ; beseeching you to pardon the exuberances of that honest zeal , which carried me rather to the maintainance of yours and the Churches Cause , then to the preservation of my own Peace , and more particular Contentments : And to this resolution I shall stand to the very last , without retracting any thing which hath passed my hand , in reference to the just Power and Honour of the Church , or to the vindication of all Orthodox and Conformable Church-men ; which I think fit the rather to make known unto you at this time , because I have met with a report , that I should supplicate for a pardon from the two Historians , for writing the Examen Historicum lately published , in which the Church and you ( my Brethren ) are so much concerned ; the eport was founded ( as I have been nce advertized ) from a passage in one of Squire Sandersons Pamphlets , in which the foolish fellow is said to affirm , That he would have spared his own and the Readers pains , in his Pursuit of me , if I had had so much ingenuity , as to crave pardon of him , as I did of the other , whose Histories I had also quarrelled . What he hath done in this Pursuit I am not able to say , not having troubled my self to enquire after the Pamphlet , or ever heard more of it then that passage only : But if he follow the Hue and Cry no better now , then he did in his Post-hast Reply , &c. which crept out last Summer , he may be Shipt away with the next fair winde to the Isles of Scicilie . So far I am from craving pardon of this Squire , that I am sorry I have used him so like a Gentleman , and passed by so many of his follies and falsities as remain untouched : And so far I have been from craving pardon of the other , that being to write to him on another account , I began my Letter in these words , viz. I understand you have an Answer on the Press to my Animadversions , which I am very glad to hear of , because I hope the truth will come out between us : If you can show me any mistakes , I shall be one of the first that shall give you thanks for it , and do my endeavour to correct them : If you can charge me with any viciousness in life or conversation , do it in Gods Name , and spare not , I will not be unthankful to you for that neither , because I shall the better know what I am to Reform , &c. After which preamble , I descended unto that particular which gave occasion to my writing , relating wholly to a third Person , utterly unconcerned in the differences which were betwixt us , to which he presently returns a very civil , full , and satisfactory Answer : If this be craving of pardon , I am guilty of it ? And for the truth hereof , I do Appeal to Mr. Fuller himself , though for my better justification , I could produce two several Copies of that Letter , one of them kept by my Amanuensis here at home , the other taken by a friend in London , before it came to his hands ; the certainty whereof I do most humbly desire you to make known , to such as come in your way , who possibly may not have the opportunity of perusing these Papers . How Mr. Fuller hath dealt with me , I am yet to learn ; neither his Book it self , nor the name thereof , nor any of the Contents of it being come M. Fuller's Appeal was sent unto the Author about four days after the date of this Preface unto me ; † Which hath made me the more willing to lay hold upon this occasion , of clearing my self from that poor Aspersion , which this Squire of low Degree ( they of no kin to him whom Spencer speaks of ) hath thrown upon me ; not knowing whether I shall trouble my self in making an Answer to the one , but being resolved never to foule my fingers in a Reply to the other .

But all these Windes shake no Corn of mine , who have long since learned to contemn those Calumnies , which from my first appearing in the Churches service , have been thrown upon me : Nor can I doubt of finding the like resolution in you ( my Brethren ) who have so long been trained up in the School of Patience , that the suffering of reproaches , whether from the Tongue or Pen , from the Press or Pulpit , cannot be taken out as a new Lesson , never learnt before . I know I speak to men who are not to be put in minde of that , which you once learned in * Aesopi Fabuloe . Aesops Fables , in one of the Morals whereof , you are taught to imitate those generous Horses Qui latrantes canicusos cum contemptu pretereunt , which use to pass by barking curs with neglect and scorn ; or to be told of that which you once read in the Annuals of * * Tac. An. lib. 13. Tacitus , viz. Convitia spreta exolescant , that contumelies soonest dye , when regarded least ; or to be remembered of that memorable saying of S. Cyprian , who had suffered as much in this kind as the most amongst us : But having suffered no more by the tongues of his Enemies , then Christ our Saviour did before from the hands of Judas , he thus encouraged himself , and others , by this Golden Sentence , Nec nobis turpe esse pati , quae passus est Christus , nec illis gloriam facere quae fecerit Judas . Which passages , though very full of use and comfort , how infinitely short are they of that Celestial consolation , which our Saviour gives us in his Gospel , pronouncing * * Mat. 5. v. 11. 12. a blessing on all those which were persecuted and reviled , and against whom all manner of evil is falsely spoken for his Name sake ; assuring them , that it should be a cause of gladness and rejoycing to them in this present life , and of a great reward in Heaven for the life to come . Let us therefore behave our selves with such sobriety and moderation , such piety and Christian candour , * 1 Pet. c. 2. v. 12. 15. that the ignorance of foolish men may be put to silence , and that all those who speak against us as evil doers , may be convicted of their faults and malicious speakings before God and Man : But more particularly let us not suffer our selves to be abused , by any flattering and deceivable hopes of bettering our condition by the change of times ; but entertain Fortune by the day , and patiently submit our selves to the appointments of that heavenly Providence , which powerfully disposeth all things to the good of the Vniuerse : So doing , we shall show ovr selves the followers of that Lamb of God , which opened not his mouth before the shearers ; the Scholars of that gracious Master , who when he was reviled , reviled not again , nor used any unbecoming speeches in the midst of his sufferings . For my own part , I hope I have so carried my self in these . Letter Combates , that my language shall not be offensive to any , though possibly the matter prove unpleasing to some , who are of a different judgment from me in the Points Disputed . From whom if I heare nothing which may force me to Replication , I am resolved to sit down quietly for the time to come , having concluded with my self , not to engage hereafter in any of these unhappy Controversies , which this unhappy Age hath bred , but where some unavoidable necessity shall compel me to it : For though Mr. Baxter hath been pleased in a late Book of his , to give me the Title of an hot Anti-Puritan , as I am credibly informed by a Letter , which is come newly to my hands : I verily perswade my self , that neither you nor he , will finde any such heat in my Conference with him , as may render me obnoxious to that accusation : But whether it be so or not , and whether that which I have done in that whole Discourse , to which Mr. Baxter is a party , will be taken for an acceptable service to your selves and the Church our mother , remains in you to be determined ; to whose upright , just , and impartial censure , I do most chearfully recommend my performance in it ( the other tracts having particular applications ) as I do you to the divine consolations of the Heavenly Comforter , with that affection which becometh .

The most unworthy of your Brethren in these common Sufferings . Peter Heylyn Lacies Court in Abing don , ●●y 2. 1659.

Certamen Epistolare , Or The Letter Combate . Managed by P. Heylyn , D. D. with M. Baxter of Keederminster , &c.

IT was about the middle of August last , that M. Baxter's Book , Entituled , The Grotian Religion , was put into my hands ; and it was put into my hands with this advertisement , that I should finde somewhat in the Preface which concerned my self : That intimation gave me the curiosity of turning first to that which was said to be of my own concernment , as indeed it prooved , not without much amazement to me , that a man whom I had never known by face , and not much by fame , should put such an unnecessary provocation on me : For speaking of the various acceptations of the word Puritan , he lets us know , that with the late Prelates a Puritan was ei●her a Non-Conformist , or a Conformist that in Doctrine was not Arminian ( of which set Peter Heylyn gives us a description by their opinions , Ser. 23. ) My first amazement being over , I began to examine my memory upon these two points : First whether in any Book or Books of mine , I had applied the name of Puritan to any such of the Clergy , who being conformable to the Church in Rites and Ceremonies , agreed not in some Doctrinal points , with such of their Brethren whom M. Baxter there brandeth with the name of Arminians . And secondly , whether in any Book or Books of mine , I had made any such description of those Puritan-Conformists ( for so I may express M. Baxter's meaning ) by their opinions , as might and did distinguish them from other men ; but not being able to find the remembrance ( or any the least foot-steps of it ) of any such application of the name , or any such description of the men , as is described to me in that Preface ; I began to consider with my self what might be M. Baxter's design in it . Doubtful I was whether it might not be his purpose , to render my name as unpleasing to the conformable Clergy , by attributing to them the title of Puritans , because they hold not with those whom M. Baxter calls Arminians in some points of Doctrine , as it had been before to the Presbiterians , for standing in defence of the Church , and the conformable Children of it : good sport it would have made amongst them , if such a 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , ball of discord , such a bone of division being cast amongst us , we had fallen foul on one another ; whilst they attending the success , and taking opportunity to go on securely , might in fine triumph over both . And no less doubtful was I , whether it might not be done upon some design of drawing me into fresh disputes , and multiplying those invidious controversies , which I chuse rather to decline . Amongst so many uncertainties , I thought it most agreeable unto my present condition , to dispatch a fair but short Letter to him , to let him know in what I found my self concerned , and to desire him so far to assist my memory , as to direct me to such Book or Books of mine , and the particular places in them , in which the name of Puritan was so applied , and they to whom it was applied , had been so described . According to which resolution , I had no sooner put an end to some business , which detained me in London till the end of August , and renewed the acquaintance betwixt me and my Study , at my coming home , but I prepared and sent away a Letter to him , bearing date the thirteenth of September ; but either by my own incogitancy , or the carelesness of my Scribe or Amanuensis , there was no Copy of it taken ; so as I am necessitated to hit upon the matter and expressions of it as well as I can , desiring M. Baxter to rectifie my mistakes therein , if any shall be committed by me in laying down the sum and substance of that Letter , which in brief was this .

The Substance of D. Heylyn's first Letter to M. Baxter of Keederminster . SIR ,

I Have lately caused your Book of the Grotian Religion to be read over to me , and cannot but approve the modesty of your expressions , and the ingenuity which you have shown in the carrying on of your designe . Only I could have wished you had spared my name , unless you would have proved me to have been one of that Religion , as I think you cannot , or else have had some more particular matter wherewithal to have charged me , then I find you have : For whereas it is said by you in your Preface , That with the late Prelates a Puritan was either a Non-Conformist , or a Conformist that in Doctrine was no Arminian ( of which sort Peter Heylyn gave us a description by their opinions ) I desire you to please to let me know in what Book or Books of mine , you either find the name Puritan to be so applied , or any such description made of them , as your Preface speaks of : Which favour if you please to do me , you will not only therein supply the defect of my memory , by which I may the better discern what I am to do , but give me very just occasion to subscribe my self .

SIR , Your very humble Servant , and Christian Brother , Peter Heylyn . Lacies Court in Abingdon , Septemb. 13. 1658.

This Letter being thus dispatched , I proposed these two hopes unto my self . First , That M. Baxter seeing his mistake , would do me right , and make me such amends in a publique way , as might be answerable to the wrong he had publickly done me ; or otherwise that without any suspition of pragmaticalness , or any new desire of being in action , I might right my self . What I have done in the last case must be left to the Reader , M. Baxter having failed on his part of doing it for me : For after more then six weeks expectation , I received an Answer to my Letter on Saturday the thirtieth of October ; In the first part whereof , he name●mpuring ●mpuring it to his temerity , that he made mention of me on that occasion , and finally acknowledging , that the principal part of what he intended , was in a Book of M. Dow's . But scarce had he absolved me from it , when he indeavoured presently to make good the charge out of some scattered passages , in a Book of mine against M. Burton , published in the year 1637. so that it seems to be my fortune to be called unto as late a reckoning by M. Baxter , for some passages in my Answer to Burtons most seditious Pamphlets , and by D. Barnard and him both , for some things taken up here and there out of my History of the Sabbath , first published in the year 1635. And as if this had not been enough to quicken me to a new encounter , he passeth from one point unto another , charging me with profaneness in reproaching extemporary Prayer , and being an enemy to the holy improvements of the Lord's day , &c. accusing me for many unjust as well as uncharitable speeches , against my brethren , for having some bloody desires , and making such rigorous Laws to hang up all that are against me , for speaking more favourably of the Papists then the Protestant partie , with many other things intermixed here and there ; in some of which he disputes against me , and in others he desires to be satisfied by me : So that taking one thing with another , he hath afforded me work enough in returning an answer ; which being to long to be contained in a Letter , I have digested it Letter-wise , into a set discourse upon all particulars which are offered to me . Now M. Baxter's Letter was as followeth .

The Copy of M. Baxter's Answer to the first Letter of D. Heylyn's . Reverend SIR ,

I Received yours of September 13. containing your favourable judgment of my extorted discourse of Grotius his Religion , with your exception of that only which concerns your ●elf . And first , you here wish I had spared your name , unless I could have proved you to have been one of that Religion , which y●u think I cannot , or found some more particular charge against you , &c. To which I answer .

First , I now wish I had spared your name my self , for the reason that I shall render you anon .

But secondly , I never gave the least intimation that I took you to be of Grotius Religion , and therefore you need not call for proof of it ; it is another subject ( the sensing of the word Puri an ) that I am speaking of , where I mention your name : I hope you think not that I charge every man with the same opinion that is but named by me in the same Book .

Thirdly , Yea , I did not so much as charge you at all , that is accuse you , but tell the world who you took for a Puritan ; Concerning which words , in Answer to the rest of your Letter , I shall give you the just account . I had read on one day ( above 20. years ago , when it first came out ) your Book against M Burton , and M. Dow's Book against him , and I think one of M. Pocklinton's on another occasion ; I certainly remembred the foresaid character of a Puritan in one of them , and I was perswaded that it was in yours , and that something of it more or less was in both : I now confess to you it was my temerity , the concomitant of hast , to mention you upon the trust of my memory , after above 20. years time ( for I never had your Book since ) and now upon search I find the principal part of what I intended is in M. Dow's , who charactereth them from their Doctrines of predestination , perseverance , or non-ability to fulfill the Law , &c.

4. But so much of it I find in yours , as justifieth what I said of you , if I can understand you , you deal with M. Burton , as the Puritans Oracle , page 152. their superintendent Champion , &c. ( Preface ) And your description of him containeth , first that he follows Illyricus in his Doctrines , providentia , predestinatione , gratia , libero Arbitrio , &c. pag. 182. And to satisfie us fully what you meant , you refer us to the Arminians , necessaria responsio , pag. 83 : where ( with pag. 82. 84 , 85. ) it is expresly manifest , that it is the Doctrine of Pareus and the rest of the Contra-remonstrants , that the Arminians there do charge upon Illiricus , and consequently that you do charge on M. Burton , the Oracle ( as you call him ) of the Puritans , and so upon the Puritans with him . If you say , you charge not these on him quatenus a Puritan . I Answer , You carry it openly in all your Book , as if you dealt with him only as a Puritan , and seditious , and so describe Puritans by him . If you mix such Doctrinal charges , and afterwards tell us that you meant them on some other account , you satisfie your Reader , that understandeth you as describing Puritans only , when you so often give the person described that name , and profess to oppose him as such , and tel us of no other ground : And what else you mean by their accustomed wresting of the Article in the point of predestination , is past my understanding , there being no accustomed Doctrine but the Anti-Arminian among the Puritans , in the point of Predestination , that you can call a wresting of the Article ; you add also to help us further to understand you , that it is false that D. Jackson' s Books are to maintain Arminianism , pag. 122. 123.

5. Sir , You are the expounder of your own words , and may give us the Law in what sense we shall understand them , because they are the signs of your own mind , which is known only to your self : And if you shall but tell me that you meant somewhat else then your words in the common sense import , I shall take my self bound to understand you accordingly hereafter ; and if you require it , I shall willingly publish an account of my mis-understanding of you , with my following satisfaction to the world to do you right : But till you shall give us another sense of your own , you must needs allow us to take your words in the common sense .

6. I shall not trouble you with any more on that subject : But were it not that in your writings I ●avour a spirit so very distant from my disposition , that I have small hopes that my words will escape your displeasure , I should on this occasion have dealt freely with you , about many things in many of your Books , that have long been matter of scandal and grief , to men that have much Christian meekness and moderation ; Many reproaches against extemporary Prayer , the holy improvement of the Lords day , &c. with many unjust as well as uncharitable speeches of your Brethren , whom you took for adversaries , are matters that I am exceeding confident you have exceeding cause in tears and sorrow , to bewaile before the Lord , and for which you are very much obliged to publish your penitential lamentations to the World ; and were it my case , I would not for ten thousand Worlds dye before I had done it ; and if I erre in this , I think it not through partiality , but through weakness . Oh the holy breathings after Christ ! the love to God! the heavenly mindedness ! the hatred of all known sin ! the humility ! self-denial ! meekness ! &c. that I have discerned ( as far as effects can shew the heart to others ) in abundance of those people that differ from you in some smaller things , which occasioned your frequent bitter reproaches : if God love them not , I have not yet met with the people whom I may say he loveth ; if he do love them , he will scarcely take your dealing well , especially when you rise to such bloody desires , of hanging them , as the better remedy then burning their Books , as in your History of Sabbath , pag. 254. Ecclesia vindicata , Preface , and passim you express ▪

7. I am not an approver of the violence of any of them , nor do I justifie M. Burtons way , nor am I of the minde of the party you most oppose in all their discipline ( as a Book now in the Press will give the world an account ; ) but I am sure the Church must have unity and charity , in the ancient simplicity of Doctrine , Worship and Government , or not at all . And if you would have men live in peace as Brethren , our union must not be Law or Ceremonies or ind●fferent Forms ; nor must you make such rigorous Laws for all , and hang them that are against you : Scripture , and reason , and the primitive practise , and great experience , do lead us all to another course . But of these words if I could procure your pardon , I expect no more because of our difference .

8. To pass by many others , I am also much unsatisfied in three things you say concerning Popery . 1. That the Papist was the more moderate adversary , and the Puritan faction hurried on with greater violence , &c. Preface to Ecclesia vindicata . 2. That you maintain against M. Burton , that the Religion of the Papists is not rebellion , nor their faith faction . I prove both . 1 That Religion which defineth the deposition of Princes , and absolving their Subjects from their fidelity by the Pope , because they deny Transubstantiation , &c. is rebellion ( Doctrinal ; ) but such is the Popish Religion : The Minor is evident : That which is defined by a Pope and general Council , is the Papist● Religion ; ( It is defide , yea , and essential , because they will have all essentials , and deny our distinguishing them from the rest : ) But the aforesaid Doctrin is defined by a Pope and an approved general Council , viz: at the Laterane under INNOCENT III. That if any Protestant Writers should teach the same , that puts it not into our Creed , as this is in theirs . 2. If it be an Article of the Papists faith , that none are members of Christ and his Church , but the Subjects of the Pope , then the Papists faith is faction : But the Antecedent is true , being defined by Pope LEO X. in a general Council . 3. I am a sorry Lawyer , but truly I would fain understand whether it be true , that written by M. Dow and you ( his page 185. and yours 210. of the History of the Sabbath ) That the Popes decretals the body of the Canon Law , is to be accepted ( as not abrogated ) which being made for the direction and reiglement of the Church in general , were by degrees admitted and obeyed in these parts of Christendom , and are by Act of Parliament so far still in force , as they oppose not the Prerogative Royal and the municipal Laws and Statu●es of this Realm of England ; these are your words , and M. Dow gives some reason for them , out from a Statute of HEN. 8.

But little know I by what Authority the Popes decretals are Laws to the Church in general , or to us , and I will yet hope they are not in force : But if ever I live to see another Parliament , if I be mistaken , I shall crave a freedom from that bondage : I thought the Acts that impose the Oaths of Allegiance and Supremacy , had disobliged us from all forreign power , and nulled the Popes authority in England .

9. I am very glad that you ( who are esteemed the Primipilus among the defenders of the late turgid and persecuting sort of Prelacy ) do so freely disclaim the Grotian Religion ( which I never charged you with ) I hope the more confidently that most of the Prelatical Divines will disown it ; but if ever you put your self to the trouble of writing to me again , I should be glad to understand how you can take the Popes decretals and the body of the Canon Law , as a Law for the government of the Church in general , and here received to be still so far in force as you affirm , and yet not hold , that the Pope and his Council have the power of making Laws for the government of the Church in general , and see that we and all other Christians are his Subjects .

Sir , I crave your pardon of the displeasing plainness of these lines , and remain ,

Your unfaignedly well willing Brother , and fellow Servant , R. Baxter . Octob. 20. 1658.

To this Letter being thus received and seriously considered of , I thought my self obliged to return an Answer , and such an Answer as might satisfie him in all particulars which were in difference between us ; and it is here chearfully presented to the eye of the Reader .

The Answer of Peter Heylyn D. D. to M. Baxter's Letter of Octob. 20. SIR .

YOur Letter of Octo. 20 last , I received on Saturday the 30. of the same Month , at what time I was preparing for a Journey to London , from whence I returned not till that day Month ; I had there so much other business to take up my thoughts that I could not give my self the leasure to read and consider the Contents of that your Letter , much less of dispatching an Answer to it . But being now at home in full peace of minde and health of body , I thank God for it , I have more thorowly considered of all particulars which may s●em necessary for me to take notice of , in order to my owne defence and your satisfaction , which shall go hand in hand together .

10. But first , I must needs tell you , that I could not chuse but wonder at the extream but most unnecessary length thereof , and the impertinencies of the greatest part of it , in reference to that Letter of mine which it was to Answer , and whereunto you had given so full an Answer in the first 25. lines ( which make but the fifth part of the whole ) that there was no need of any thing to be added to it . The cause of my address unto you was to let you know , how much I wished that you had spared my name in your Preface to your Book of the Grotian Religion , unless you could have proved me to have been one of that Religion , which I thought you could not , or had had some more particular charge to have laid against me , then I sound you had . And secondly , To desire you to let me know in what Book or Books of mine you had found a Puritan defined to be a Conformist who was no Arminian , a description of whom , one Peter Heylyn had given us by their opinions . To both which you return this Answer . First , that you wish you h●d spared my name as well as I. Secondly , that you never took me to be of Grotius his Religion , and therefore that I needed not to have called for proof of it . And thirdly , that though it was in the sensing of the word Puritan , in which you were pleased to use my name , telling the world whom you took for a Puritan ; yet upon further consideration , you ascribe it unto your temerity , the ordinary concommitant of hast ; and having blamed your self for mentioning me upon the trust of your memory after above twenty years ( for so long it is ( as y●u please to tell us ) since you saw my Book against M. Burton , wherein you thought to have found such a description of a Puritan : ) You father the chiefest part thereof upon M. Dow , who had writ likewise against M. Burton much about that time : It seems your notions are like ware mislaid in a Pedlers pack , you have them , but you know not where to finde them , whether in me , or in M. Dow ( for D. Pocklinton comes in upon another occasion ) it is hard to say . Two Books of the same argument coming into your minde , you were perswaded first , that it was in mine ; next , that the chiefest parts of that description were to be found in M. Dow's , and finally , that somwhat of it more or less might be found in both , though perhaps in neither : How ever we have here that great advantage spoken of by the Orator , Confitentem reum , which gives me as much private satisfaction as I could desire . And when you have made good your promise , in publishing an account of your misunderstanding me , with your following satisfaction to the world to do me right ( for doing whereof you have declared so great a readiness ) I shall then much applaud your ingenuity in doing me that peice of justice , and shall with chearfulness affirme in the Poets language ,

Vna eademque manus , vulnus opemque tulit , That the same hand hath righted me , which had done me wrong .

11. If your Letter had been ended here , it would have put a period to all differences and disputes between us . But much I fear that by giving you new matter of provocation , you will not give me any such cause of magnifying that ingenuity in you , of which I cannot see the expected fruits : For contrary to the former part of your Letter , wherein you had absolved me from that accusation , which you laid against me in your Preface , and charged it in M. Dow ; you use your best indeavours to prove me guilty of that charge implicitely , and by consequents at the least , if not in terminis and expresly . But first , how may we be assured that you deal better with M. Dow , then with Peter Heylyn ( for you allow neither of us the title of Doctors ) considering that you direct us not to that part of his Book in which we may find any such description of a Puritan , as you put upon him ; as you have sent us to pag. 185. of the very same Book , in which he is said to speak of the Authority , which some of the Popes Decretals and other parts of the Canon Law have obtained in England . But admitting what you tell us of him to be true , yet all that you have told us from him , amounts not to a full description of the Puritans by their opinions , but only to a principal part ( as you now confess ) of what you intended ; and what you intended in those words will be hard for any man to say , unless you make a further explication of them , then you have done hitherto : For if you have no other meaning then your words in the common sense import , may not D. Dow tell us ( as perhaps he doth ) of what judgment or opinion the Puritans are in the points of predestination , perseverance , or inability to fulfill the Law , &c. But presently this must be taken for a Description of the Puritans by their opinions , as you please to word it : I am sure you never learned this in Baxter's Logick , published at Frankford , Anno 1593. which was a Book in some credit at my first coming to Oxon ; nor in your Aditus ad Logicam , or your Breerwoods Element . In all or any of these you might have learned , that the Definition is to be Reciprocal with the thing defined , as , Omnis homo est animal rationale , omne animal rationale est homo . And though a description by the rules of Logick be of a larger latitude then a definition ▪ yet there is par ratio in them both , the description being to be made commensurate to the thing described ; so that though D. Dow might say , that every Puritan was a Calvinist , in matters of predestination , grace , free will , &c. yet cannot this be called the character or description of a Puritan ( as you please to make it ) because it followeth not è converso , that every one who followeth Calvin's judgment in the points aforesaid , is a Puritan also ; no more then if a man should say , Every Presbiterian is an enemy to the Authority of the King and supream Magistrates in the concernments of the Church ; and therefore it must follow also , that all which do not allow any such Authority in the supream Magistrate ( Papists of all sorts , Jesuites , yea the Pope himself ) must be Presbiterians .

12. Having thus rescued D. Dow , I shall next come unto my self , in whom you hope to find such a description of a Puritan , as you have charged on me in your Preface , though but just now you had ascribed that charge unto your temerity , and seem to cry pecavi for it , for you say next that so much you have found in a Book of mine against M. Burton , as justifies what you said of me , if you can understand me ; and if you cannot understand me , 't is no fault of mine , who commonly speak plain enough to be understood , and shall now give you leave to understand me in your own sense , or in any other which shall please you better . I have not so much of the Frenchman in me , as either to speak what I do not think , or not to write as I speak , nor so much of the Hypocrite , Ore aliud retinens , aliud sub pectore condens , ( as we know who saith ) as to write otherwise with my pen then my heart inditeth : My heart and my tongue goes still together , and my pen keeps pace with both ; leaving equivocation to the Jesuites , and mental reservation to the Presbiterians , who are better studied in them both then I can pretend to : I am a kind of plain Tom tell troth , and have so much in me of the old Spartan , as to call a Spade a Spade . 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 ; as they phrased it without fear or wit ; so that you might have spared your Metaphysical discourse about the nature of words , as they are the expressions of the mind ; and the suspition that you have that I reserve some other meaning to my self then my words in the common sense import , though I desire that my words should be understood alwaies in the litteral sense , or in any other sense that you shall give them , as afore was said , which being premised , I would fain see how you prove the point which you have so blindly undertaken . Marry , say you , I deal with M. Burton as the Puritans Oracle , pag. 152. their superintendent , Champion , &c. as in my Preface to that Book ; and my des●r●pti●n of him , is that he followeth Illyricus in his Doctrines , de providentia , predestinatione , gratia , libero arbitrio , &c. pag. 182. Stay here a little M Baxter ; do you not tell us in the former part of your Letter , that you had not seen that Book against M. Burton above 20. years , and therefore condemned your temerity in mentioning me on the trust of your memory after so long time ; and can you now direct us not only unto single words , Oracle , Superintendent , Champion , &c. and to the several pages where they are ? Can you direct us to a marginal Note , pag. 182. relating to a Book called Necessaria Responsio , and to the folios of that Book , viz. pag. 82. with pag. 82 , 84. 85. or tell your Read●● in what part or page of that Book he may find D Jackson acquitted from maintaining Arminianism and the Puritans condemned for wresting the Articles of the Church , pag. 122 , 123. Can you do this , and yet with confidence declare that it is 20. years since you saw that Book ? Assuredly your memory must be very good , in remembring so many single words and particular passages , with the very places where they are , after the space of twenty years ; or very bad , in not remembring that the description of a Puritan ( which you had charged on Peter Heylyn ) was to be found in M. Dow , and perhaps not there . Quid verba audiam , cum facta videam ? You tell us that you have not seen that book this twenty years , and here is evidence enough that you have it by you ( for I cannot think that you clogged your Note Book with such petit remembrances ) unless the term of twenty years may pass in your account for no more then yesterday .

13. But be your memory good or bad , I am sure your Logick is far worse ( none of old Baxter's this ) then your memory can be . The Charge you are to prove is this , That with the late Prelates a Puritan was either a Non-Conformist , or a Conformist , that in Doctrine was no Arminian ( of which sort Peter Heylyn gave us a description by their opinions ; ) By which we are to understand ( if you mean nothing else but what your words in the common sense import ) that the Puritans ( of whom ( the said sorry fellow called ) Peter Heylyn hath given us a description by their opinions ) is such a Conformist who in Doctrine is no Arminian . This is the point you are to prove ; and for the proof of this , you instance in M. Burton of Fryday-Street , who though he was no Arminian in point of Doctrine , yet was he so far from being a Conformist , that since the hanging up of Penry at Saint Thomas of Waterings ( where he Preached before a very thin audience on the top of the Ladder ) ( as Johannes Stow informeth us ) Anno 1593. There never was a more profest , outragious , violent and seditious Non-Conformist in the Church of England : Now if the Puritans be there described by M. Burton as you say they are ; or if the Reader understand me as describing Puritans only , because I have so often given the person described that name , as I am willing that he should , and you say he must ; It must needs follow thereupon , that the Puritans against whom I write , cannot be such Conformists as are no Arminians , but such notorious Non-Conformists as their Oracle and Champion M. Burton was . There was an old distinction made by I know not whom , betwixt the Knaves Puritan , and the Knave Puritans , the Knaves Puritan being one that made a conscience of his waies , and followed not profane and licentious persons in their ungodly way of living : But the Knave Puritans were those , who under pretence of long Prayer devoured widdows houses , and wilfully opposed the Rights and Ceremonies of the Church , and clamorously cried down the Lordly Prelacy and jurisdiction of the Bishops , that they might themselves Lord it over Gods people , in their several Parishes , and sit as so many petit Popes in their Classical Sessions . These and no others are the Puritans against whom I write ; not against those who walk unblamably before God and man ; nor against those who following Calvin's judgment in the matter of predestination and the points concomitant , conform themselves unto the Rites and Ceremonies of the Church of England , here by Law established ; of which last sort were many Bishops , Deanes & Dignitaries in Cathedral Churches , whose parts & piety I admire as much as any , whom it had been a madness to condemn for Puritans , such Puritanism and their several dignities being inconsistent .

14. So then the Puritan whom I aim at in the person of M Burton , is a notorious Non-Conformist ; and whither I had described him or them we are next to see . And my description of him ( as you tell us ) contain●th , first , that hee follows Illyricus in his Doctrines d● providentia , predestinatione , gratia , libero arbitrio , &c. If it conteins that first ( as you say it doth , it must needs contain something in the second , third and fourth places , which you are willing not to speak of : For if ●ou look into the place by you cited , pag. 882. you will there find that M. Burton is not only said to be a follower of Illyricus in his Doctrines de providentia , &c. but to have also followed him in his fiery nature and seditious principles one of which was , Principes potius metu seditionum terrendos , quam vel minimum pacis causa indulgendum , That Princes should be rather terrified with the feares of tumults , then any thing should be yielded to for quietness sake : All which being laid together , as it stands in your Author , falls so much short of being a description of such Puritans , as being conformable to the Church in Rites and Ceremonies , are notwithstanding no Arminians in point of Doctrine , which you have charged on Peter Heylyn , that it conteineth not such a principal part of that description , as you have laid on D. Dow : For besides that the Puritans hold the same opinions with those who follow Calvin's judgment in some controverted points before remembred ; they hold also some opinions of their own , that is to say , it is not lawful to use the Cross in Baptism , or to bow at the blessed name of Jesus ( which M. Burton calls Cross-worship and Jesu-worship ) nor to be uncovered in the time of Divine Service , to wear the Surplice , kneel at the Communion , to marry with the Ring , and finally to stand up at the Gospels , and the Gloria Patri : In all which he and they were as much opposed by those of the Conformable Clergy , who follow Calvin's judgement in the points aforesaid , as by any of those Divines whome you call Arminians . You grant that I behold not M. Burton as a Puritan only , but as a Puritan and seditious , and being such might pass the better in the train of Illyricus his followers , without drawing after him all the rest which hold the same opinions in some doctrinal matters , as Illyricus did : Nor doth it help your cause at all , that M. Burton is accused for wresting the Articles of the Church , to make good his Doctrines in that point pag. 122. or said to have dealt fasly with D. Jackson , in charging him to be a maintainer of Arminianism , pag. 123. for M. Burton might do both , as indeed he did ; and those who are of M. Burton's judgment in those Doctrinal matters ( whom you here call by the name of Anti-Arminians ) might and did wrest the Articles from their proper sense : For did not many of them draw the Article aside , refusing to submit to the full and plain meaning of it , but puting their own sence or comment to be the meaning of the Article , and consequently not taking it in the litteral and grammatical sense ? Contrary to the tenour and command of his Majesties D●claration , prefixed before the Book of Articles , Anno 1628. All this may be or may not be , and you be not a jot nearer to your Journie● end , which was to let us know in what Book or Books the said Peter Heylyn , by gathering together their opinions , had made up the description of such Puritans , who being Conformists ( you may add Non-Conformists also , if you have a mind to it ) as were no Arminians ; for if you find not this upon your Melius inquirendum , you have found just nothing , but must return a non est inventus , as at first you did : Where by the way I would fain learn , why those that are of different perswasion from you in the points aforesaid , must be called Arminians , or D. Jackson must be said to maintain Arminianism , instancing to the established Doctrine of the Church of England . Assuredly Arminius was too much a Puisue , of too late standing in the world , to be accounted the first Broacher of those Doctrinal points , which have such warrant from the Scripture , and were so generally held by the Ancient Fathers , both Greek and Latine , till S. Austin's time , defended since that time by the Jesuites and Franciscans in the Church of Rome , by all the Melancthonian Divines among the Lutherans by Castelio in Geneva it self , by Bishop Latimer and Bishop Hooper , in the time of K. Edward , by some of our Confessors in Prison in Q Maries days , by Bishop Hursnet in the Pulpit , and Peter Barrow in the Divinity Scholes of Cambridge , during the raign of Q. Elisabeth , by Hardem Bergius , the first reformer of the Church and City of Emden ; and finally by Anastatius Veluanus , Anno 1554. and afterwards by Henrious Antonii , Johannis Ibrandi , Clemens Martini , Cornelius Meinardi . the Ministers generally of the Province of Vterick , Manaus the Divinity Professor of Leyden , Gellius Suecanus in the Province of Friezland , before the name of JACOB VAN ' HARMINE hath been ever heard of in the World . Lay all that hath been said together , and the sum is this , that I apply not the name of Puritan ( in any Book or Books of mine ) to such Conformists as in Doctrine are no Arminians , not have given any such description of them by their opinions , as your Preface speaks of ; and therefore once again I shall claim your promise of publishing an account of your misunderstanding me in that particular , with your following satisfaction to the World to do me right .

15. And here again you might have left me , teling me that you have no more wherewith to trouble me on that subject , which was indeed the only subject in which you had been troublesome to me , and for which trouble I desire satisfaction from you . But having said thus much to so little purpose , you will proceed a little further to no purpose at all , but that you cannot let me pass without a use of Exhortation and Reproof to conclude the business : In order whereunto you tell me , that had you not savoured in my writings a spirit so very distant from your disposition , that you have small hopes that your words shall escape my displeasure , you would on this occasion have dealt freely with me about many things in many of my Books , which have long been matter of scandal and grief , to men that have much Christian meekness and moderation . What your own disposition is , as I know not otherwise , so I cannot gather it from your Writings , having never seen any of them but this of the Grotian Religion , which is now before us , and what I find in that you shall see hereafter . But if you be of such a disposition as inclines to peace , and chearfully submissive to the higher Powers under which you live ; you shall not find such a spirit in me , but that we may take sweet councel together , and walk in the house of God as friends . Certain I am you savour not in my Writings any such spirit as bends me to despise dominion and speak evil of dignity , or tends to the embroilment of Kingdomes , the subversion of Churches , and the confusion of Estates . If the Writings of many of your party and perswasions , had savoured of no other spirit then mine ▪ there had not been such scandal given to the rest of Christendom , by our Schisms and Heterodoxies , by lifting up our hands against Gods anointed , ●nd washing them in the blood of one another . My Writings have all tended unto peace and unity , and if they had been better followed , we might have kept the spirit of unity in the bond of peace . Nor need you fear that any thing which you can either say or write shall escape my displeasure , as I think you do not ; I have been alwaies patientissimui veri , I thank God for it , and can give ear to friendly admonition and severe reproof , without any disturbance ; and therefore you may deal as freely with me as you please : your tongue is your owne , and my ears are mine , nor can you speak or write more of me , then I can willingly hear without any displeasure , Tu linguae , ego aurium dominus sum , as once he in Tacitus .

16. Useing the freedom which I give you , you say ( as in the way of reprehension and reproof ) that there are many things in many of my Books , that have long been matter of scandal and grief , to men that have much Christian meekness and moderation . Matter of scandal there hath been , there is no question of it ; but whether it be Scandalum pusillorum , or Pharisaicum , whether it be datum or acceptum , as the Schools distinguish : A scandal given by me to those whom you have honoured with the Attributes of much Christian meekness and moderation , or causl●sly and perverslesly taken by them against the Rules of Christian meekness and moderation , is the thing in question ; but you think it to be past all question , exemplifying in my many repr●ac●es against extemporary Prayer , the holy improvement of the Lords day , &c. but where I beseech you , in what Book or Books of mine may a man meet with any of those many reproaches against extemporary Prayer ? May you not be again mistaken , and find upon a further search that those many reproaches against extemporary Prayer are to be found in D. ●olkinton or in some body else ? The most that I have said ag●inst extemporary Prayer occurreth in a brief discours touching the form of Prayer appointed to be used before the Sermon . Sect. 22. in which you read , That whereas the Church prescribes a set form of Prayer in her publique Liturgie , from which it is not lawful for any of her Ministers to vary or recede ; she did it principally to avoid all unadvised effusions of gross and undigested Prayers , as little capable of piety , as they are uterly void of order : and this she did upon the reason given in the Melevitan Council , viz. least else through ignorance or want of care any thing should be uttered contrary to the rules of faith , Ne forte aliquid contra fidem . vel per ignorantiam , vel per minus studium si● compositum , as the Canon hath it . And again page 348. We plainly see by the effects , what the effect of theirs would tend to : What is the issue of the liberty most men have taken to themselves ; too many of that sort who most stand upon it , useing such passages in their Prayers before their Sermons , that even their Prayers in the Psalmist's language , are turned into sin . Thus find we in the General Preface , That the inconveniencies which the liberty hath brought upon us in these latter days , are so apparent , that it is very hard to say , whether the liberty of Prophesying , or the licentiousness in Praying what and how we list , hath more conduced to these distractions which are now amongst us ; and if there were no such effect too visible of this licentiousness ( which I desire the present state to take notice of ) the scandal which is thereby given unto our Religion , in speaking so irreverently , with such vain repetitions and tautologies to almighty God ( as in extemporary and unpremeditated Prayers is too frequently done ) seem a sufficient consideration to bring us back again to that ancient form which the wisedom of the Church prescribed to prevent that mischief . And finally , that men never did so litterally offer unto God the Calves of their lips as they have done of late , since the extemporary way of praying hath been taken up : ●nd if it were prohibited by the Law of Moses , to offer any thing unto God in the way of the legal Sacrifices , which was maimed , sported or imperfect ; how can it rationally be conceived that God should be delighted with those Oblations , or spiritual Sacrifices , which have nothing almost in them but maims , spots and blemishes . These are my words I must confess ; but that they are reproaches , I must needs deny . But first , I do not speak these words of all extemporary Prayers in general , or more particularly of those which gifted men may make in their private devotions , but of those unpremeditated , undigested Prayers which men ungifted , and unlearned men , have poured out too frequently in the Church of God . And secondly , if they be reproaches , they are such reproaches and such only , as when a man is said to have been slandered with a matter of truth , and for the proof hereof , besides the authority of the Council of Melevis , before remembred , I ma● bring that our incomparable Hooker , in the fifth Book of his Eccles: Politie , Num 25. Who though he actually saw but few , did foresee many of ●ho●e inconveniencies which the humor of extemporary Prayer at last would bring into the publique worship of Almighty God ; for there he tells us of the grievous and scandalous inconveniences whereunto they make themselves daily subject , who by their irksome deformities , whereby through endless and sensless effusions of undigested Prayers , they oftentimes disgrace in most unsufferable manner , the worthiest part of Christian duty towards God , when being subject herein to no certain order , pray both what they list , and how they list . But behold a greater then Hooker is here ; even His most Excellent and most Incomparable Majesty , the late King CHARLS , who telleth us in his large declaration against the Scots , That for want of a set form of Prayer , they did sometimes pray so ignorantly , that it was a shame to all Religion , to hear the Majesty of God so barbarously spoken unto ; and sometimes so seditiously , that their very Prayers were either plain libels against Authority , or manifest lies , stuffed with all the false reports in the Kingdom . And what effects he found of them among the English , appears by his Proclamation against the Directory , bearing date Novemb. 30. Anno 1644. where we are told , That by abolishing the Book of Common-Prayer , there would be a means to open the way , and give the liberty to all ignorant , factious or evil men , to broach their own fancies and conceits , be they never so wicked and erroneous , and to mislead people into sin and rebellion , and to utter those things even in that which they make for their Prayers , in their Congregations , as in Gods presence , which no conscientious man can assent to say Amen to . And hereunto I shall add no more but this , viz. that the passages produced before out of two of my Books , and countenanced both by sad experience , and such great Authorities , must needs be either true or false ; if true , they can be no reproaches ; if false , why do you not rather study to confute them , then reprove me for them .

17. The next charge which you lay upon me , and thereby render me obnoxious to a new reproof , relates to my reproaches against the holy improvements of the Lords day , &c. How far your ( &c. ) will extend is hard to say ; and therefore had you done more wisely , had you left it out ; especially consider how many doubtful descants and ridiculous glosses were made upon a former ( &c. ) and happily left standing in one of the Canons , Anno 1640. for either I am guilty of more reproaches against piety and the power of godlines , or I am not guilty ; if guilty , why do you not let me know both their number and nature , that I may either plead my innocence or confess my crime ? If not , why do you thus insinuate by this ( &c , ) that you suppress some other charges which you have against me ? But letting that pass cum ceteris ●rroribus , Where ( I beseech you ) can you point me to any reproaches of that day , or of the holy improvements of it ? Much I confess is to be found in some of my Books , against the superstitious and more then judaical observation of it , which cannot come within the compass of being a reproach unto it . Might not the Scribes and Pharisees ( Si licet exemplis in parvo grandibus uti , in the Poets words ) have charged our Saviour with the like , and reckoned him for a reproach to the holy improvements of the Sabbath , by justifying his Disciples in plucking off the ears of Corn upon that day ; commanding the man whom he had cured of his diseases , to take up his bed and walk , though upon the Sabbath ; and finally giving this general Aphorism to his Disciples , That the Sabbath was made for man , and not man for the Sabbath ; Then which there could be nothing more destructive of those superstitions wherewith that day was burthened by the Scribes & Pharisees , and thereby more accommodated to the ease of the Ox and Asse , then to the comfort and refreshment of the labouring man : might not the latter Rabines among the Jews defend themselves in those ridiculous niceties , about the keeping of that Sabbath ( Queen-Sabbath as they commonly call it ) ( for which they stand derided and condemned by all sober Christians ) by reckoning them for such holy improvements , as D. Bound and his Disciples have since encogitated and devised to advance the dignity of the Lords day ( Saints Sunday , as the people called it in times of Popery ) to as high a pitch ? Restore the Lords day to that innocent freedom in which it stood in the best and happiest times of Christianity , and lay every day fresh burthens upon the consciences of Gods people ( in your restraints from necessary labours and lawful pleasures ) which neither we nor our forefathers have been able to bear , though christned by the name of holy improvements . The coming out of Barbours's Book ( Printed and secretly dispersed , Anno 1628. but walking more confidently abroad , with an Epistle Dedicatory to his Sacred Majesty , about five years after ) declare ▪ sufficiently what dangerous effects your holy improvements had produced , if not stopt in time ; and stopt they could not be by any who maintain your Principles ; that poor man being then deceived into the errour of a Saturday Sabbath ( a neer neighbour of this place hath been of late ) by the continual inculcating ( both from the Pulpit and the Press ) of the perpetual and indispensable morality of the fourth Commandment , as it hath been lately urged upon us . But so much hath been said of this by others , and elsewhere by me , that I forbear to press it further ; nor indeed had I said thus much , had you not forced me upon it for my own defence .

18. And for those most unjust as well as uncharitable speeches ( those bitter reproaches as you call them afterwards ) which you charge upon me in reference to my brethren whom I take for adversaries ; when you have told me what they are , and of whom they are spoken , and where a man may chance to find them , I shall return a more particular answer to this calumny also ; but till then I cannot : In the mean time , where is that ingenuity and justice you so much pretend too ; you make it foul crime in me , not easily to be washed away with the tears of repentance , that I have used some tart expressions ( which you sometimes call bitter reproaches ) sometimes unjust and uncharitable speeches against my brethren , many of them being my inferiours , and the best but my equals , and take no notice of those odious and reproachful Attributes which you have given unto your Fathers , all of them being your superiours de facto , though perhaps you will not grant them to be such de jure : You call me in a following passage , the Primipilus ( by which I finde you have studied Godwin's Antiquities ) or chief of the defenders of the late turgid or persecuting sort of Prelates ; whither with greater scorn to me , or reproach to them , it is hard to say ; the merit of the accusation we shall see anon ; I note here only by the way in S. Paul's expression , that that wherein you judge another you condemn yourself , seeing you do the same things , and perhaps far worse : But to return unto my self , take this in general , that though I may sometimes put vinegar into my inck to make it quick and opulative , as the case requireth , yet there is nothing of securrility or malice in it , nothing that savoureth of uncharitableness , or of such bitter reproaches as you unjustly tax me with : But when I meet with such a firebrand as M. Burton ( whose ways you will not seem to justifie in that which followeth ) I hope you cannot think I should pour Oyl upon him to encrease the flame , and not bring all the water I had to quench it , whither soul or clean : Or when I meet with such unsavoury peices of wit and mischief as the Minister of Lincoln Diocesse , and the Church Historian , would you not have me rub them with a little salt to keep them sweet ? The good Samaritan when he undertook the care of the wounded passenger , is said to have poured into his wounds both Oyl and Wine , that is to say , the Oyl to cherish and refresh it , and the Wine to cleanse it , Oleum quo foveatur ▪ Vinum quo mordeatur , as I have read in some good Authors ; he had not been a skilful Chyrurgion if he had done otherwise ; one plaister is not medcinal to all kind of sores , some of which may be cured with Balm , when others more corrupt and putrified , do require a lancing ; but ●o I shall not deal with M. Baxter , nor have I dealt so with others of his perswasion ; insomuch that I have received thanks from the Ministers of Surrey and Buckingham shire ( in the name of themselves and of that party ) for my fair and respectful language to them , both in the Preface to my History of the Sabbath , and the Conclusion to the same .

19. But you go on , and having given me some good councel which I shall thank you for anon ; you tell me that besides those many bitter reproaches of my Brethren which I take for adversaries , I rise unto such bloody desires of hanging them , as the better remedy then burning their Books : For this you point us to the History of the Sabbath , pag. 2 pag. 254. and in the general Preface to Ecclesia vindicata , Sect. 8. In which last place we find it thus , " That partly by the constancy and courage of the Arch-Bishop Whitgift , who succeeded Grindal , Anno 1583. the opportune death of the Earl of Leicester their chief Patron , Anno 1588. and the incomparable pains of judicious Hooker , Anno 1595. but principally by the seasonable execution of Copping and Thacker , hanged at Saint Edmonds bury in Suffolke , for publishing the Pamphlets of Robert Brown against the Book of Common-prayer , they became so quier , that the Church seems to be restored to some hopes of peace . Nothing in this that savoureth of such bloody desires as you charge upon me , I am sure of that ; and there is little more then nothing in the other passage , where speaking of D. Bound's Book of Sabbath-Doctrines , and the sad consequents thereof , I add that on the discovery of it , this good ensued , that the said Books were called in by Arch Bishop Whitgift in his V●sitations , and by several Letters ; and forbidden to be Printed and made common , by Sir John Popham , Lord Chief Justice at the Assizes held at Bury ; and thereunto I subjoyned these words , viz. Good remedies indeed , had they been soon enough applied : yet not so good as those which formerly were applied to Thacker and his fellow Copping , in the aforesaid Town of Bury , for publishing the Books of Brown against the Service of the Church . But here is no mention , not a syllable of burning the said Books of Sabbath-Doctrines , but only of suppressing and calling in ; Which makes me apt enough to think that you intended that for a private nip , relating to a Book of mine called Respondit Petrus ; which was publiquely voyced abroad , to have been publiquely burnt in London ( as indeed the burning of it was severely prosecuted ) though itscaped the fire ; a full account whereof being too long to be inserted in this place , I may perhaps present you with , in a place by it self . And secondly , what find you in that latter passage , which argueth me to be guilty of such bloody desires as I stand accused for in your Letter ? Cannot a man report the passages of former times , and by comparing two remedies for the same disease , prefer the one before the other , as the case then stood , when the spirit of sedition moved in all parts of the Realm , but he must be accused of such bloody desires , for makeing that comparison in a time of quietness , in a time of such a general calm , that there was no fear of any such tempest in the State as did after follow ? If this can prove me guilty of such bloody desires , the best is , that I stand not single , but have a second to stand by me , of your own perswasion ; for in the same page where you find that passage , viz. page 254. you cannot chuse but find the story of a Sermon , Preached in my hearing at Sergeants Inn in Fleetstreet ; in which the Preacher broach'd this Doctrine , That temporal death was at this day to be inflicted by the Law of God on the Sabbath breaker , on him who on the Lord's day did the works of his daily calling ; with a grave application to my Masters of the Law , that if they did their ordinary works on the Sabbath day , in taking fees , and giving counsel , they should consider what they did deserve by the Law of God . The man that Preached this was Father Foxly , Lecturer of S. Martins in the Fields ▪ Superintendent general of the Lecturers in S. Antholin's Church , and Legate à Latere from the Grandees residing at London , to their friends and agents in the Countrey ; who having brought these learned Lawyers to the top of the Ladder , thought it a high piece of mercy not to turn them off , but there to leave them , either to look after a Reprieve , or sue out their Pardon . This Doctrine you approve in him ( for you have passed it quietly over , & qui tacet , consentire videtur , as the saying is , without taking any notice of it , or exceptions against it ) and consequently may be thought to allow all those bloody uses also , which either a blind superstition , or a fiery zeal shall think fit to raise : But on the other side , you find such bloody desires in the passages before remembred , which cannot possibly be found in them , but by such a gloss as must pervert my meaning , and corrupt my text ; and it is , Male dicta glossa quâ corrumpit textum , as the old Civilians have informed us ,

20. But to come nearer to your self ; May we be sure that no such bloody desires may be found in you as to the taking away of life , in whom we find such merciless resolutions , as to the taking away of the livelyhood of your Christian Brethren . The life of man consists not only in the union of the soul and body , but in the enjoyment of those comforts which make life valued for a blessing ; for ▪ Vita non est vivere , sed valere ; as they use to say ; there is as well a civil as a natural death ; as when a man is said to be dead in law , dead to the world , dead to all hopes of bettering his condition for the time to come ; and though it be a most divine truth , that the life is more then food , and the body then rayment ; yet when a man is plundered both of food and cloathing , and declared void of all capacities of acquiring more , will not the sence of hunger and the shame of nakedness be far more irksome to him then a thousand deaths ? How far the chiefs of your party have been guilty of these civil slaughters , appears by the sequestring of some thousands of the Conformable and Established Clergy from their means and maintainance , without form of Law ; who if they had done any thing against the Canons of the Church , or the Laws of the Land , were to be judged according to those Laws and Canons , against which they had so much transgressed ; but suffering as they did , without Law or against the Law , or by a Law made after the fact ( a●ainst which last his Highness the late LORD PROTECTOR complaineth in his Speech made in the year 1654. ) they may be truly said to have suffered as Innocents , and to be made Confessors and Martyrs against their wills : Either they must be guilty , or not guilty of the crimes objected : If they were guilty , and found so by the Grand Inquest , why were they not convicted and deprived in due form of Law ? If not , why were they suspended , sine die , the profits of their Churches , sequestered from them , and a Vote passed for rendring them uncapable of being restored again to their former Benefices ? Of this , if you do not know the reason , give me leave to tell you ; The Presbyterians out of Holland , the Independents from New - England , the beggerly Scots , and many Tr●n ch●r-Chaplains amongst our selves were drawn together , like so many Vultures , to seek after a prey ; for gratifying of whom , the regular and established Clergy must be turned out of their Benefices , that every Bird of r pine might have its nest ( some of them , two or three for failing ) which holding by no other Tenure then as Tenants at will , they were necessitated to performe such services as their great Patrons from time to time required of them .

21. Now for your part how far you are and have been guilty of these civil slaughters , appears abundantly in the Preface which is now before us ; in which you do not only justifie the sequestring of so many of the regular and established Clergy , to the undoing of themselves and their several families ; but openly profess , That you take it to be one of the charitablest works you can do ▪ to help to cast out a bad Minister , and to get a better in the place ; so that you prefer it ( as a work of mercy ) before much sacrifice : Which that it may be done with the better colour , you must first murther them in their fame , then destroy them in their fortunes , reproaching them with the Atributes of utterly insufficient , ungodly , unfaithful , scandalous , or that do more harm then good ; and reckoning their ejection to be one of the most pious and charitable worke you can put your hand to : And as if this had not been enough , you tell us , that many of them have long been a burden to the Church , instead of a blessing ; that they understood neither the Catechism nor the Creed ; that many of them lived more in the Ale-house then the Church ( which might be done , though they spent but three hours at the Ale house in all the week ) and use to lead their people in drunkenness cursing swearing ▪ quarrelling , and other ungodly practises ▪ and that such of them as were better then the rest , would be drunk but now and then , and lived in much worldl●ness and profaneness , though not so disgracefully as the rest . Our Ecclesiastical Historians tell us of one Ithasius ( a professed enemy of the Priscili●nists , a potent Sect at that time in the West of Christendome ) who if he met with any man that walked not directly in his own way , put him down presently in his Catalogue of suspected Priscilianists . Take heed I beseech M. Baxter , that you be not of the same humour as Ithasius was , and that you put not every one into your ●able book for a good fellow , or a drunkard , &c. in whom you finde not such an affected austerity of deportment such an unsociableness of conversation , such a disguisedness in their countenance● , as if their faces were not made at the same time with the rest of their bodies . And take heed also , that you be not of their minde , who think that God sees no sin in his Elect ; and that you put not some men out of their Benefices , who never were at an Ale-house , and put such others in their places , who never●ly out of it ▪ as hath been done ( and I could tell you where and when if it were material ) under pretence of such a Reformation as you are in hand with : And that you do not in this case , as LEWIS XI . of France did in another , of whom it is Recorded , That when he had lost the Battel of Mount le Herie , he took many Offices and Commands from some who ran a little out of the Field , & conferred them upon those who ran ten miles further . In order whereunto , I desire you to let me know what justice these poor men ( of whom you have undertaken the prosecution ) are to look for from you , whom you have thus prejudge before hand , and condemned without hearing ? Or with what equity you can charge me with useing such unjust and uncharitable speeches ( which you call afterwards by the name of bitter reproaches ) against my brethren , when you have shewed your self more really guilty in that kind , then you have unjustly reported me to be ? And in the turn thereof , I shall let you know , how vast the difference is between the old Incumbents and the new Intruders ; the greatest part of those who have been sequestered or ejected , being far more eminent in all parts of learning , and no less eminent for their exemplary piety , then the best of them who have been thrust into their places ! Had I observed the passages in your Preface , before I writ my first Letter to you , I should not have so much commended the modesty of your expressions , as I did therein , when I had looked upon no more of it then that which did concern my self , and then passed directly to your description of the Grotian Religion , which gives the Title to your Book .

22. But then admitting that some of those who have been sequestred and ejected , had not been altogether so unblamable in their conversation , as the dignity of their calling and the strictness of the time required ; yet might they take heed unto themselves , and unto Doctrine , and continue therein , which you make to be God's appointed means to save themselves , and them that hear them , as indeed it is . But then I hope you do not think , that the Doctrine becomes ineffectual by proceeding from an unclean mouth ( for veritas à quocunque est , est à spiritu sancto , as S. Ambrose hath it ) or that the waters of Life contract any corruption by passing through an impure Channel ; for if you do , you cross not only with the Church of England , but with Christ himself ▪ The Church of England in the twenty sixth Article teacheth thus , viz. Although in the visible Church , the evil be ever mingled with the good , and sometimes the evil have chief authority , in the ministration of the Word and Sacraments ; yet forasmuch as they do not the same in their own name , but in Christs , and do minister by his Comission and Authority , we may use their ministry both in hearing the Word of God , and in the receiving the Sacraments ; neither is the effect of Christ's Ordinance taken away by their wickednesses , nor the grace of God's gifts diminished from such as by faith and rightly do receive the Sacraments ministred unto them , which are effectual , because of Christ's institution and promise , although they be administred by evil men ; and Christ our Saviour having told the Multitude in Mat. 23. That the Scribes and Pharisees ( whose palpable Hypocrisie and corruptions he describeth at large ) sit in Moses Chair , adds this , viz. All therefore whatsoever they bid you do that observe ye and do ; but after their works do not : for they say and do not . Had you been present at that time , you would have interposed and said , There was no such need the Scribes and Pharisees ( having by their own vitiousness rendred themselves uncapable of it ) should sit any longer in that Chair , but rather be sequestred , ejected , and turned out of all , that so the Gaulonites ( men eminent for their zeal to the publique liberty , and such as taught the people not to give to Caesar that which belonged unto Caesar ) might possess their places . It s true that we find this clause in the former Article viz. Nevertheless it appertaineth to the Discipline of the Church , that enquiry be made of ev●● Ministers , and that they be accused by those that have knowledg of their offences ; and finally ▪ being found guilty by just judgment , be deposed . And it is true ▪ that I find the name of Richard Baxter of Keederminster , in the front of those Ministers of Worcester shire , who are to be subservient to the Commissioners authorised by the Ordinance of August 29. 1654. For the ejecting of scandalous , ignorant ▪ and insufficient Ministers . But as the one gives you no authority to prejudge your brethren before hand by your bitter reproaches , and your uncharitable speeches , or to accuse any of them on a partial fame , but only on the certain knowledg of their offences : So neither are you impowered by the other , to sit as Judge upon the life and conversation of any Minister , but only to deliver your opinion ( if it be required ) touching his ignorance and insufficiency , and no more then so . And therefore M. Baxter , let me advise you to follow the counsel of the old Proverb , and be good in your Office , that you may continue longer in it ; and that you do not too much Lord it over your brethren of the Clergy 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , as it is in the Original ( neither dominantes in cleris , as the vulgar Latine ) by vertue of any such Commission as I find your name in . You say you are a sorry Lawyer , and I think so too ; for else you could not chuse but know , that every minister upon his institution and induction ▪ is actually possessed of a free hold in that Benefice into which he is instituted or inducted ; of which he is not to be dis-placed ( if the Magna Charta be in force , as I think it is ) but by the Laws of the Land ; and therefore ceaseth not by his own vitiousness to have a right to the mantainance which belongs unto it ( as you strangely tell us ) until he be convicted according to those Laws , and deposed accordingly .

23. But you proceed , and having charged me with some bloody desires , which you find not mine ; you tell me , that I must not make such rigorous Laws for all , and hang them that are against me . This , if you speak to me in my personal capacity , you might well have spared it , knowing that I have no authority of making Laws , and that the Legislative Power is in other hands ; but if you speak to me as the Primipilus ( as in scorn you call me ) amongst the chi●● of the defenders of the late turgid and persecuting sort of Prela●y , you may do well to let us know what rigorous Laws have been made at the instigation of the Prelates , for hanging all that were against them ! what execution hath been done upon any of the Puritan faction , since the so much celebrated Raign of Q. ELIZABETH ! What Confessors and Martyrs have been added lately unto Fox's Kalender ▪ The Prelates in the mean time must be thought to be in a sad condition , and every one of them might have said in his own particular , Si b●ne r●xe●o ●civ●s ; si mlae Deos iratos habeo ; If they discharged the trust reposed in them , for suppressing Heresies and Schisms , and preserving Order in the Church , according to the Canons of the Church and the Laws of the Land , they were sure to get nothing but anger and hate from men ; if not , they were as sure to incur the high displeasure of almighty God : And yet for this , for doing nothing but their duty ( and would to God they had done that as they should have done ) they must be branded by the odious name of Persecutors . But certainly M. Baxter , if they may be called a persecuting sort of Prelates ▪ they must be called so , à non Pers●qu●n●o ( as Lucus was à non Lucendo , by some old Gramarians ) for being too indulgent to the Puritan faction , for standing in the gapp betwixt them and the Kings displeasure , when he might more easily have crushed them then have spoke the word : For if you look into his Majesties Proclamation against the Scots , bearing date Febr. 20 ▪ in the 14 year of his Raign , when he first took up Arms against them , you will there find ▪ First that it was given out by the Covenanters , that some of power in the Hierarchy of England have been the cause of his Majesties first taking Arms to invade that his Native Kingdome , and of medling with their Religion . And secondly , that his Majesty Answers thereunto , that it was most certain , that no one of them had done any thing therein , but by his own Princely direction and command ; and that it was notoriously known to all the Councel then present , that their counsels were for peace , and that they were the perswaders ( as much as in them lay ) of the undeserved moderation wherewith he had hitherto proceeded towards so great offenders . And therefore tell me , if you can , in what this persecuting humour of theirs did consist especially . Cannot such a seditious wretch as Burton , such a rake-shame as Vicars of Stamford , such a notorious piece of Non-Conformity as Rood of Abingdon , be censured in the high Commission ( perhaps to deprivation , and some short imprisonment ) but presently you must c●y out of a Persecution ? Cannot the Ordinaries in their several and respective Jurisdictions , proceed unto the silencing of a factious Lecturer , or the suspending of an unconformable Minister , usque ad Reformationem , but that must pass also under the same account ? If there be persecuting on the one side , there must be martyrdom , and other sufferings on the other side ▪ And then such sufferings must not be ( for it is Causa , non Paena , quae facit Martyrem ) either for factious Preaching , or seditious Writing , or an incorrigiable opposition to established Orders ; but for the testimony of a good conscience , in bearing witness to the truth , and constantly adhering to the faith of Christ , when the abnegation or renouncing of it is required of them : Such sufferers , if you can shew me , you have gained the cause ; and for such Persecutions as you complain of , they so seldom happened , that there was the more notice taken of them , because they were so rare , and came so seldom ▪ once in a year , or perhaps not above once in two or three years , we might hear the news of some one or other notoriously known for his inconformity , who was brought upon the stage for a terrour to others , which is the most you can complain of ▪ but so , I trow , it was not with the Presbyterians when they were in power , whose little finger was heavier on the Regular Clergie , then the loins of all the Bishops had been on them . Consult the Acts of the High Commission , inquire into the Registers of the several Bishops , and tell me , if for every one of the Puritan party who had been silenced , suspended or deprived , according to the Laws of the Land during the last 20. years of Episcopal Government ; some scores at the least , of the conformable Clergie have not been sequestred , ejected , and turned out of all ( without law , in lesse then half that time ) by the Presbyterians . Here is a persecution indeed , ( undecima persecutio , as the Book not unfitly calls it ) A Persecution with a witnesse .

24. But you have other Titles of Honour to bestow upon them , and think it not enough to brand the Bishops with the odious title of a persecuting sort of Prelacie ; but you must adde the word Turgid , to make up the measure as well of your incivilities as of their afflictions : which word , although it be not usual in the English Tongue , yet we can understand it without the help of a Dictionarie , and understand by it , that you tax the Prelates with a high swelling kind of pride . I heard one preach in Westminster Abbey about the beginning of the long Parliament , who much bemoaned the sad condition of the Clergie , and the impossibilities under which they lay , of giving content unto the people ; for if ( said he ) they kept close and privately , or lived any thing below their means , the people were then apt to cry , O the base sordidness of the Clergie ! but if according to their means and in any little outward lustre , they then cried on the other side , O the pride of the Clergie ! But tell me , M. Baxter , ( if you can at the least ) in what the turgidness , or the high swelling pride of the Prelates did appear most visibly ; was it in the bravery of their apparel , or in the train of their attendance , or in their lordly port , or lofty looks , or in all , or none . Admitting the worst and most you can of these particulars , would you have men that shine in an higher Orb , move in a lower Sphere then that in which God hath placed them ? o● being ranked in order and degree above you , would you not have them keep that distance which belongs to their places ? or because you affect a Paritie in the Church , ( and perhaps in the State ) would you have all men brought to the same level with your self , without admitting sub and supra in the Scale of Government ? If they were your Fathers in God , why did you not look upon them with such reverence as becometh children ? If your superiors in the Lord , why did you not yield them that subjection which was due unto them ? If fixt in place and power above you by the Laws of the Land only , and no more then so , why did you not give obedience to those Laws under which you lived , and by which you were to be directed ? Take heed I beseech you M. Baxter , that more spiritual pride be not found in that heart of yours , then ever you found worldly and external pride in any of my Lords the Bishops , and that you do not trample on them with a greater insolence ( calco Platonis fastum , sed majore fastu , as you know who said ) in these unfortunate dayes of their calamity , then ever they exprest towards any in the times of their Glory . Were it my case as it is yours , I would not for 10000 worlds depart this life before I had obtained their pardon , and given satisfaction to the world for these horrible scandals .

25. This leads me from your uses of reproofs or reprehension , ( which for my better method I have laid together ) to that of Exhortation , which comes next in order . For having told me of my many reproaches against extemporary prayers , the holy improvements of the Lords day , &c. with my uncharitable as well as unjust speeches against my brethren ; you adde , how confident you are , that they are matters which I have exceeding cause in tears and sorrow to bewail before the Lord , and for which I am very much obliged to publish my penitential lam●ntations to the world , and that if it were your case you would not for 10000 worlds dye before you had done it . This is good counsel I confess , if it were well grounded , and as divine ●hysick as could be given , if it were properly administred as it ought to be . But let me tell you M. Baxter , you goe not the right way to work in your Application ; you should first convince me of my errours , before you presse me to a publick Recantation of them ; and make me sensible of my sins , before you preach repentance to me , or can require such a solemn and severe repentance as you have prescribed ? It was in the year 1635. that the History of the Sabbath was first published , which if it doth contain such matters of Reproach against the holy improvements of the Lords day , as you say it doth , why hath it not been answered in all this time ; my errors , falsities , and mistakes , layd open in the sight of the world ? It is true , that in the Postscript of a Letter writ from Dr. Twisse to the late Lord Primate , bearing date May 29. Anno 1640. I find it signified ( with great joy no question ) that M. Chambers of Clouford by Bath , hath long agoe answered Dr. Heylins History of the Sabbath , but knew not how to have it printed . But this was nothing but a flourish , a cup of hot water as it were , to keep life ●nd soul together till the pang was over . For M. Chambers might as well know how to get his Book printed , had he been so pleased , as M. Byfield of Surry could get a Book of his printed in answer to that of Dr. White then Lord Bishop of Ely , which came out at the same time with that History . Or if he could not get it printed before that time which the Doctor speaks of , I am sure he might have done it since , the Presse being open to all comers : but to none more then unto such as write against the Government and established Orders of the Church of England . And it is more then 20. years since I published that Book ( so much complained of ) against M. Burton , in which I answered all his Objections against the preheminence of Bishops , their function in the Church , the exercise of their Jurisdiction ; and cleared them from the guilt of all innovations in Doctrine , Discipline , and Forms of Worship , which M. Burton in a furious zeal had laid upon them : Why hath not that been answered neither ? in which the differences between us are so briefly handled , that it would have required no great study , but that the truth is mighty . and prevaileth above all things . Giue me but a satisfactory answer to those two Books , not nibling at them here and there , like a Mouse at a hard piece of Cheese which he cannot Master ; and then you may take further time to look into the History of Episcopacy , and that of Liturgies . Give me I say a full and satisfactory answer to those two Books , and you shall find I have a malleable soul , that I shall be as ready to publish my penitential Lamentations to the world ( as Origen did his in the Primitive times ; ( and cast my self , as Esebollus did ) before the dores of the Church , and call upon the Congregation passing in and out , to trample on me , for an unsavoury piece of salt ( calcate me tanquam salem insipidum ) fit only to be thrown on the common dunghil . Till you do this , you have done nothing , but must leave me in the same state in which you found me ; and when you doe it , I hope you will give me leave to use your own words , and say , that if I have erred , it hath been through weakn●sse , not by partiality , much lesse by any willful opposition to a manifest truth .

26. This said , you fall into rapture , and cry out , Oh the holy breathings after Christ , the love to God , the heavenly mindedness , the hatred of all known sin , the humility , self denial , meekness , & c ! that you have discerned as far as effects can sh●w the heart to others , in abundance of those people that differ from you in some smaller things . Here is a Panegyrick indeed , fit only for Angelical spirits , or such at least as live only on the food of Angels . How well accommodated and applyed to the present subject we shall best perceive by consulting some of the particulars . Some of your holy breathings we have seen before , and shall see more in that which follows ; tell me then what you think of these passages , these breathings of M. Burton in his Apologie and Appeal . In which he calls on the Nobility , To rouse up their spirits and magnanimous courage for the truth , and to stick close to God and the King , in helping the Lord and his anointed against the mighty ; upon the Judges , to draw forth the sword of Justice , to defend the Laws against such Innovators , who as much as in them lieth , divide between the King and People : upon the Courtiers to put too their helping hands and prayers to rescue our religion and faithful Ministers then suspended from the jaws of those devouring Wolves and tyrannizing lordly Prelates , &c. Upon the people generally to take notice of the desperate practises , innovations and Popish designs of these Antichristian Prelates , and to oppose and redress them with all their force and power . And yet ( as if this had not been enough to declare his meaning ) he breaths more plainly in his Libel called The News from Ipswich ; in which he lets us know That till his Majesty shall hang up some of these Romish Prelates & Inquisitors before the Lord , as the Gibbeonites once did the seven sons of Saul , we can never hope to abate any of Gods plagues , &c. What think you of these breathings of Buchannan in his book De Jure Regni apud Scotos , where he adviseth , Regum interfectoribus proemia discerni , &c. that Rewards should publickly be decreed for those who kill a Tyrant ( and the meekest King that ever was shall be called a Tyrant if he oppose the setting up of the holy Discipline ) as usually are proposed to those who kill Wolves or Bears . And finally , what think you of these breathings in one of the brethren , who preaching before the House of Commons in the beginning of the long Parliament , required them in the name of the Lord to shew no mercie to the Prelatical party their wives and children , but that they should proceed against them as against Babylon it self , even to the taking of their children and dashing their brains against the stones . Call you these holy breathings the holy breathings after Christ which you so applaud ? Or are they not such breathings rather a● the Scripture attributes to Saul before his conversion , who in the ninth chapter of the Acts is said to be Spirator minarum & caedis adversus discipules Domini , that is to say , that he breathed out threatnings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord .

27. As are their breathings , such also is their meekness , their humility , their hatred of known sin , their heavenly mindedness , and that self-denial which you so commend , for of their love to God I can take no notice . As well as they are known unto you , may you not be deceived in your opinion of them , and take that first for a real and Christian meekness which is but counterfeit and pretended for their worldly ends . Doth not our Saviour tell us of a sort of men , false-preachers , seducers , and the like , which should come in sheeps clothing but inwardly they are ravening wolves . What means our Savior by sheeps clothing , but that innocence , meekness , and humility , which they should manifest and express in their outward actions : it being the observation of Thomas Aquinas that grand dictator in the Schools , In nomine ●vis innocentiam & simplicitatem per totam Scripturam designar● . And yet for all this fair appearance they were inwardly but ravening Wolves , greedily thi●sting for the prey , and hungry after spoil and rapine . Astutam rapido gestan●es pectore vulpem , in the Poets language . This you may find exemplified in the Sect of the Anabaptists , who at their first appearance disguised themselves in such an habit of meekness and humility , and Christian patience as gained them great affection amongst the people , but when they were grown unto a head , and had got some power into their hands , what lusts , what slaughter , what unmerciful cruelties did they not commit , when Tyrannie and K. John of Leyden did so rage in Munster . But because possible you may say that these are not the men whom your character aims at , tell me what spirit of meeknesse you find in Calvin , when he called Mary Q. of England by the name of Proserpine , and tells us of her , that she did superare omnes diabolos , that all the Devils in hell were not half so mischievous : or what in Beza when he could find no better title for Mary Q. of Scots then those of Athaliah and Medea , the one as infamous in Scripture for her barbarous cruelty , as the other is in heathen Writers : or what of Peury , Vdal , and the rest of the Rabble of Mar ▪ Prelates in Queen Elizabeths time , to whom there never was the like generation of railing Rabshakehs since the beginning of the world . Or what of Dido Clari●s who calls King James ( for neither Kings nor Queens can escape them ) intentissimum Evangelii hostem , the most bitter enemy of the Gospel : and I say nothing of the scandalous reports and base reproaches which were laid upon his son and successor by the tongues and pens of too many others of that party .

28. Look upon their humility and you shall find them exalting themselvs above Kings & Princes , and all that is called God , the Pope and they contending for the supreme power in the Church of Christ . For doth not Traverse say expresly , in his Book of Discipline , Huic Disciplinae omnes principes fasces suas submittere necesse est , that Kings and Princes must submit their Scepters to the Rod of that Discipline , which Calvin had devised , and his followers here pursued so fiercely . Have not some others of them declared elsewhere , that Kings and Princes must lay down their Scepters at the Churches feet , yea and lick up the dust thereof ; understanding always by the Church their one holy Discipline ; did they not carry themselves so proudly in the time of that Queen , whom they compared to a sluttish housewife , who swept the middle of the room , but left the dust behinde the door and in every corner , that being asked by a grave Counsellor of State , whether the removal of some Ceremonies would not serve the turn ; they answered with insolence enough , ne ungulam esse relinquendam ; that they would not leave so much as an hoof behind . And that you may perceive they have been as good at it in Scotland as ever they have been in England . Take here the testimony of King James ( who had very good experience of them ) in the Preface to his Basilicon Doron where telling us what he means by Puritans , he describes them thus , I give this stile ( saith he ) to such brain-sick and Headie Preachers as refusing to be called Anabaptists , participate too much with their humours ; not only agreeing with the general rule of all Anabaptists in the contempt of the Civil Magistrate , and in leaning to their own Dreams and Revelations ; but particularly , in accounting all men prophane that swear not to all their phantasies , in making for every particular question of the Policie of the Church , as great commotion , as if the Article of the Trinitie were called in controversie ; in making the Scriptures to be ruled by their conscience , and not their conscience by the Scripture ; and he that denies the least jot of their Grounds , sit tibi tanquam Ethnicus & Publicanus , not worthy to enjoy the benefit of Breathing , much less to participate with them of the Sacraments : and before that any of their Grounds be impugned , let King , People , Law and all be trod under foot . Such holy Warrs are to be preferred to an ungodly Peace : no , in such cases Christian Princes are not only to be resisted unto , but not to be prayed for : for Prayer must come of Faith , and it is not revealed unto their Consciences that God will hear no prayer for such a Prince . I would to God you had not put me to these remembrances , which cannot be more unpleasing unto you , then they are to my self . But taking them for most good truths , may we not thereupon inferr , that as the Masters were , such are the Scholars ; or as the Mother was , such are the Daughters ; and as the Fathers were , such are the Sons . Nil mirum est si patrizent filii , saith the old Comoedian .

29. Then for their Heavenly mindednesse we have seen somewhat of it before , and shall see more thereof , as also of their hatred of all known sin , in that which follows . And here again we will take the Character which King James makes of them in the second Book of his Basilicon Doron before mentioned . In which he telleth us , That there never rose Faction in the time of his minority , nor trouble since , but they that were upon that factious part were ever carefull to perswade and allure those unruly Spirits among the Ministry to Spouse that quarrel as their own ; and that he was calumniated by them to that end , in their popular Sermons , not for any evil or vice which they found in him , but only because he was a King , which they thought to be the highest evil ; informing the People that all Kings and Princes were naturally enemies to the Libertie of the Church , and could never patiently bear the yoke of Christ . After which having spoken of the violence wherewith they had endeavoured to introduce a parity both in Church and State , he gives this counsel to the Prince , Take heed therefore my son ( saith he ) to such Puritans , very pests in the Church and Common-weale , whom no deserts can oblige , neither oaths or promises bind ; breathing nothing but sedition and calumnies ; aspiring without measure , railing without reason , and making their own imaginations ( without any warrant of the Word ) the square of their conscience , protesting to him before the great God , that he should never find with any Highlander , base● Thieves , greater ingratitude , and more lies and vile perjuries , then with those fanatick spirits . And suffer not ( saith he to his son ) the principles of them to brook your Land , if you like to sit at rest ; except you would keep them for trying your patience , as Socrates did an evill wife . Such is the heavenly-mindednesse , and such the hatred of all known sin , which you have observed in many of those who differ from me as you say , in some smaller things , nec ovum ov● , nec lac lacti similius , as you know who said .

30. And then as for their Self-denial , I could wish you had spared it , unless you had some better ground for it then I doubt you have . For if you ask the Country people , they will tell you generally , that they have found in those who live upon Sequestrations , so little self denial , that they are more rigorous in exacting of their Tithes , even in trifling matters ; and far less hospitable for relief of the Poor , or entertainment of the better sort of the Parishioners , and consequently to have more of Earth and Self in them , then ever had been found , or could be honestly complained of in the old Incumbents ; whom if you look on with an equal and impartial eye , you will find them to be of another temper , notwithstanding all the provocation of want and scorn which from day to day are laid upon them ; neither repining openly at their own misfortune , nor railing malitiously on those whom they know to be the Authors of them ; nor libelling against the persons , nor wilfully standing out against the pleasure and commands of the higher Powers ; but bearing patiently the present , and charitably hoping for some better measure , then hath been hitherto meeted to them ; as best becomes the scholars of that gracious Master , who when he was 1 Pet. 2. 23 reviled , reviled not again ; when he suffered , he threatned not ; but committeth himself to him that judgeth righteously : but the Crow thinks her own birds fairest , and so let them be .

31. But you proceed , and tell us , That if God love them not ( that is to say , the persons whom you so extol ) you have not yet met with the people whom you may hope he loveth : and if he do love them , he will scarcely take my dealing will : spoken with confidence enough . But how came you to know the mind of the Lord , or to be of his Councel , that you can tell so perfectly whom he loveth or hateth , e● nos scire Deus voluit , quae oportet scire ad vitam aeternam consequendam , as the Father hath it , God hath communicated to us all those things which are fit and necessary to be known for the attaining of everlasting salvation , but keeps such secrets to himself . And though we are most sure and certain that the Lord , knoweth who are his , yet how may we be sure or certain that he hath made you acquainted with it . I cannot easily believe that you have been either wrapt up into the third heaven , or perused the Alphabetical Table to the Book of Life , or have had any such Revelation made unto you , by which you may distinctly know whom the Lord loveth , or whom he doth not . But if you go by outward signs , and gather this love of God unto them from the afflictions and chastisements which they suffer under ( God chastning every son whom he doth receive ) that mark of filiation runneth on the other side ; those of your Partie injoying as much worldly prosperity , as the reaping of the fruits , and living in the houses of other men , ( which you call by the name of carnal accommodations ) can estate them in . If you conclude on their behalf from their outward prosperity , you go on worse grounds then before : for David tells us of some wicked and unrighteous persons , that they are neither in want or misery like other men ; that they live plentifully on the lot which is fallen unto them , and leave the rest of their substance unto their babes . And Christ the Son of David tells us , that the Lord God makes the Sun to shi●e and the rain to rain as well on the sinners as the just . All mankind being equally capable of those temporary and temporal comforts : and finally if you collect it from those spiritual graces and celestial gifts which you have attributed to them ( as far as the effects can shew the heart to others ) I have before took some pains to let you see how easily men may be mistaken , when they behold a man through the spectacles of partiality and defection , or take the visible appearances for invisible graces ; the fraudulent art fi●●s and deceits of men , for the coelestial gifts of God . And as for that which you have inferred hereupon , viz. that if he love them he will scarcely take my dealing well . You should first prove the Premises before you venter upon such a strange conclusion , and not condemn a Christian brother upon Ifs and Ands.

32. In the next place , you please to tell me , that you are not an approver of the violence of any of them : and that you do not justifie M. Burtons way , and that you are not of the mind of the party that I most oppose in all their Discipline ( as a Book now in the Press will give the world an account . ) In the two first parts of which Character ( which you have given us of your self ) as I have great reason to commend your moderation , and hope that you will make it good in your future actions ; so I can say little to the last , not having heard any thing before of the Book you speak of , nor knowing by what name to call for it when it comes abroad . But whereas you tell us , in the next , that you are sure the Church must have unity and charity in the ancient simplicity of Doctrine , Worship and Government , or not at all . I take you at your word , hold there , and we shall soon agree together . Vnity and charity in the ancient simplicity of Doctrine Worship and Government , no man likes better then my self ; bring but the same affections with you , and the wide breach which is between us , ( in some of the causes which we mannage on either side will be suddenly closed , but then you must be sure to stand to the word ancient also , and not to keep your self to simplicity only : if unity and charity will content you in the ancient Doctrine , in the simplicity thereof without subsequent mixtures of the Church , I know no doctrine in the Church more pure and ancient then that which is publickly held forth by the Church of England in the book of Articles , the Homilies , and the Chatechism authorized by Law , under the head or rubrick of Confirmation . Of which , I safely may affirm , as S. Augustine doth in his Tract , or Book Ad Marcellinum , ( if my memory fail not ) his qui contradicit , ●ut à Christi fide alienus est , aut est haereticus ; that is to say , he must be either an Infidei or an Heretick who assenteth not to them . If unity and charity in the simplicity of Worship be the thing you aim at , you must not give every man the liberty of worshiping in what form he pleaseth , which destroys all unity ; nor cursing many times in stead of praying , which destroyes all charity : the ancient and most simple way of Worship in the Church of God was by regular forms prescribed for the publick use of Gods people in their Congregations , and not by unpremeditated , indigested prayers , which every man makes unto himself as his fancy shall lead him ( which I hope I have sufficiently proved in my Tract of Liturgies . ) And if Set Forms of Worship are to be retained , as I think they be , you will not easily meet with any which hath more in it of the ancient simplicity of the Primitive times , then that by which we did officiate for the space of fourscore years and more , in the Church of England . And finally , if the ancient simplicity in Government be the point you drive at , what Government can you find more pure and ancient then that of Bishops ; of which I shall only present you with that Character of it which I find in that Petition of the County of Rutland , where it is said to be , That Government which the Apostles left the Church in , that the three ages of Martyrs were governed by ; that the thirteen ages since have alwayes gloried in , ( by their succession of Bishops from the Apostles , proving themselves members of the Catholick and Apostolick Church ) that our Laws have established , so many Kings and Parliaments have protected ; into which we were baptized , as certainly Apostolical , as the observation of the Lords day , as the distinction of Books Apocryphal from Canonical , as that such Books were written by such Evangelists and Apostles , as the consecration of the Eucharist by Presbyters , &c. An ample commendation of Episcopal Government , but such as exceedeth not the bounds of truth or modesty . Stand to these grounds for keeping unity and charity in the ancient simplicity of Doctrine , Worship , and Government in the Church of God , and you shall see how cheerfully the Regal and Prelatical party ( whom you most oppose ) wil join hands with you , and embrace you with most dear affections .

33. But you begin to shrink already , and tell me , that if I will have men live in peace as brethren , our Union must be Law , or Ceremonies , or indifferent Forms . This is a pretty speculation ( I must needs confesse ) but such as would not passe for practicable in any well-governed Common-wealth ; unless it be in the Old Vtopia , or the New Atlantis , or the last discovered Oceana . For how can men possibly live in peace as brethren , where there is no Law to limit their desires , or direct their actions . Take away Law , and every man will be a Law unto himself , and do whatsoever seemeth best in his own eyes , without control : then Lust will be a law for one , Felony will be a law for another ; Perjury shall be held no crime , nor shall any Treason or Rebellion receive their punishments ; for where there is no law , there is no transgression ; and where there is no transgression there can be no punishment , punishments being only due for the breach of Laws . Thus is it also in the service and worship of Almighty God , which by the hedge of Ceremonies is preserved from lying open to all prophaneness ; and by Set Forms ( be they as indifferent as they will ) is kept from breaking out into open confusion . God ( as S. Paul hath told us ) is the God of Order , not of Confusion in the Churches . If therefore we desire to avoid confusion , let us keep some order ; and if we would keep order , we must have some forms : it being impossible that men should live in peace as brethren in the house of God , where we find not both . David hath told us in the Psalms , that Jerusalem is like a City which is at unity in it self , and in Jerusalem there were not only solemn Sacrifices , set Forms of blessing , and some significant Ceremonies prescribed by God ; but Musical Instruments , and Singers , and linnen vestures for those Singers ; and certain hymns and several times and places for them ordained by David ▪ Had every Ward in that City , and every Street in that Ward , and every Family in that Street , and perhaps , every person in that Family used his own way in worshiping the Lord his God . Jerusalem could not long have kept the name of a City , much lesse the honour of being the City which was at unity in it self . And Solomon in the book of Canticles , compareth the Church unto an Army , an Army terrible with banners : now an army is a gallant sight when it moves one way , when every Regiment and Troop marcheth in order , with , and under their proper Ensigns ; and as long as they do so they may seem invincible : but if their files and ●anks be broken , if they march either without order , or against direction , consusi Equites Pedit●sque in exitium ruunt , both Horse and Foot will be easily vanquished , and the whole Army put to rout by the weakest Enemies . When therefore the Apostle gives us this good counsel , that we endeavour to keep the spirit of unity in the bond of peace ; he seems to intimate that there can be no unity where there is no peace ; and that peace cannot be preserved without some bond . If you destroy all Ceremonies and subvert all Forms , you must break the bond ; and if the bond be broken , you must break the peace , and if you break the peace , what becomes of unity : so that it is but a dream of a dry Summer ( as the saying is ) to think that without Law or Forms or Ceremonies . men may live peaceably together , as becometh brethren , though they profess one Faith , acknowledge one Lord , and receive one Baptism , and be the sons of that one Father which is in heaven .

34. When therefore you subjoin that Scripture and reason , and the Primitive practice , and great experience do lead in all to another course ; I would fain know particularly to what that passage doth relate : if to the words immediately foregoing , in which you tell me that I must not make such rigorous laws to hang up all that are against me ; I grant indeed , that the Church hath no authority to make any such laws , either from Scripture or the practice of the Primitive times . Neither can any reason justifie , or any great experience , adde strength to such executions : defendenda●est religio non occidendo , sed moriendo , was the rule of old ; but if those words relate to the former clause , as intimating that an union which is built on Laws , preserved by Forms , and cemented by Ceremonies in Gods publick Worship ; is neither consonant to Scripture , agreeable to Reason , conform unto the Primitive times , nor countenanced by great Experience ; there is not any thing in the world which can be more unfitly spoken , or more impossible to be proved . What may be ▪ said in that behalf from Scripture , Reason , and the practice of the Primitive times , hath briefly been presented to you in the former passages ; and would to God we had not found by too great experience , how much our union ( which made us gloried and renowned in the eyes of the World ) is broken in pieces for want of those good Laws , those religious Forms , & those decent Ceremonies which were before in use amongst us ; certain I am , that neither Scripture , Reason , the Primitive times , or great Experience do lead us to any other course for preserving union in the Worship of God , but by established Laws , set Forms , and commanded Ceremonies : in which if you conceive me to be mistaken , you must endeavour to prove it , & not say it only . But this you seem willing to decline , telling me , that if you could procure my pardon for those words , you would expect no more , because of our distance . My pardon is as easily obtained , as asked ; if you conceive it worth the asking , when there is no offence either given or taken . But whether you expect any more or not , that remains wholly in your self , it being a matter of your own seeking that you have so much . My desires are to live in peace , and not to engage my self in new embroilments , having had too many Irons in the fire already : howsoever as you like this , you may have more if you please , the distance of our habitations not being so great , but that we may manage these Pen Combates without any great trouble ; and the distance in our affections being so little , that I shall very chearfully embrace the freindship , and somwhat ambitiously desire a place in your good opinion : Distantia locorum non tollit amicitiam , is a known Aphorism in our Ethicks ; A friendly correspondence being once begun , cannot be intermitted by the distance of places , or the remoteness of habitations , if both parties equally endeavour to maintain the same .

35. And here again we might have parted , but that you have a mind ( for what ends I know not ) to ingage me in some fresh disputes : For thinking you had satisfied me , you desire that I would satisfie you ( passing by many other things ) in three points especially , concerning Popery , in which you seem to be much unsatisfied ; such satisfaction as I can , I am bound to give you , as unto any other man , who modestly shall require an account from me , for any thing which hath passed my Pen , or come within the compass of my small ability ▪ and the first thing for which satisfaction is desired , is , That the Papists are affirmed by me , to have been the more moderate Adversaries then the Puritans ; and the Puritan Faction hurried on with greater violence , &c. For this you cite the Preface of my Ecclesia Vindicata , where I am sure there is no such matter ; no such thing ( I am sure ) delivered in such general tearms as you here express it ; but with limitations and restrictions , unto one particular , which is the Argument there handled ; so that you enter upon these new Disputes concerning Popery , with that kind of fallacy which the Logicians call , A dicto secundum quid ad dictum simpliciter : And how can I hope for a fair end from so foul a beginning ? Look on that Preface once again , and you will find , that I speak not generally of all the differences which are betwixt us and the Papists ; but only of those heats which have passed on both sides about the liturgie : for having told the Reader , That the Liturgie was faulted by the Papist , because it had abolished the Mass , and was communicated to the people in the English tongue , and blamed by the Genevians , for having too much in it of the Roman Rituals : I presently subjoyn , That the Papist of the two was the moderate Adversary , and such whose edges were sooner taken off , from the prosecution of the quarrel , then others were . Would you be satisfied in this ? You may then please to know , that after the first heats were over , the Papists presently grew cool , and relinquished the quarrel ; considering seasonably and discreetly , that the Liturgie being founded upon those common Principles of faith and piety , in which both parties did agree , was not so subject to disputes and contradiction , as at first it seemed : And hereupon it was that Pope PIVS IV. offered to confirm it by his Papal Authority , that the English Papists dilligently resorted to it ; that after the Schism made by Pope PIVS V. little or nothing for many years together ( comparatively with those of the other party ) was writ against it ; that being newly translated into the Latine tongue , about the year 1618. it gave great content to the more moderate sort of Papists amongst the French , as Bishop Hall informeth us , in his Quo Vadis ; and being translated into Spanish ( at such times as his late Majesty was in Spain ) it gave no less contentment to the learned and more sober sort amongst the Spaniards , who marvelled much to see such a regular order and form of Divine Worship amongst the English , of whom they had been frequently informed by our English Fugitives , that there was neither form nor order to be found amongst us : But on the other side , the Genevians beginning to take up the cry ( called Puritans upon that account ) in the 6. or 8. year of Q. ELIZABETH , animated by Billingham and Benson , conntenanced by Cartwright , and headed by the Earl of Leicester , followed it with such a violent impetuosity , that nothing could repress or allay that fury ; neither the patience and authority of Arch-Bishop Whitgift , the great pains and learning of Bishop Bilson , the modesty of M. Hooker , nor the exactness of D. Co●ens ( all which did write against them in Q. ELIZABETHS time ) was able to stop their current , till the severity of the Laws gave a check unto them : Nor was King JAMES sooner received into this Kingdom , but they again revived the quarrel , as may appeare by their Petitions , Admonitions , and other Printed Books and Tractates ; to which the learned labours of Bishop Buckridge , Bishop Morton and D. Burges ( who had been once of that party , but regained by K. James unto the Church ) were not by them thought to give such ample satisfaction , that they must be at it once again , during the life of K. James , in their Al●are Damuscenam , in which the whole body of the English Liturgie , the Hierarchy of Bishops , the Discipline and Equ●nomy of the Church of England , was publickly vi●●ified and decried . How egerly this game was followed by them after the first ten years of his late Majesty K. Charles , till they had abolished the Liturgie , destroyed the discipline , and pluckt up Episcopacy both root and branch , is a thing known so well unto you , that it needs no telling : And this I hope hath satisfied you in your first enquiry , viz. why and in what respects it was said in the Preface to my Ecclesia Vindicata , That the Papist was the more moderate adversary ; and for the other words which follow , viz. That the Puritan faction hurried on with greater violence , &c. which you find in the 17. Sect. of it ; they relate only to the violent prosecution against the Episcopal Government , in which , how far they out went the Papists , is made so manifest in that and the former Section ▪ that it is no small wonder to me , that you should seek for any further satisfaction in it ; read but those Sections once again , and tell me in your second and more serious thoughts , if any thing could be spoken more plainly , or proved more fully , then that the Puritan ●action , with greater violence and impetuosity , were hurried on towards their design ( that is to say the destruction of Episcopal Government ) then the Papists were . Secondly , You seem much unsatisfied that I maintained against M. Burton , That the Religion of the Papists is not rebellion ▪ nor their faith faction : But this when I maintained against M. Burton , I did it not in the way of laying down my own reasons , why it neither was nor could be so , but in the way of answering such silly Arguments as he here brought to prove it was ; but now that I may satisfie you ▪ and do right both to the Church and State , you shall have one Argument for it now , and another I shall give you when I shall come in order to answer yours : The Argument which I shall give you now , is briefly this , shall be founded on a passage of the Speech , made in the Star Chamber by the late Arch Bishop , at the sentencing of D. Bastwick , M. Burton , &c. in which he telleth us , That if we make their Religion to be Rebellion , then we make their Religion and Rebellion to be all one ; and that is against the ground both of State and the Law : for when divers Romish Priests and Jesuites have deservedly suffered death for Treason , is it not the constant and just profession of the State , that they never put any man to death for Religion , but for Rebellion and Treason only ? Doth not the State truly affirm , that there was never any Law made against the life of a Papist quatenus , a Papist only ? And is not all this stark false , if their very Religion be Rebellion ? For if their Religion be Rebellion , it is not only false but impossible , that the same man in the same act should suffer for his Rebellion , and not for his Religion : And this ●aith he , K. James of ever Blessed Memory , understood passing well , when ( in his Premonition to all Christian Monarchs ) he saith , I do constantly maintain that no Papist , either in my time , or in the time of the late Queen , ever dyed for his conscience : therefore he did not think their very Religion was Rebellion , thus he . And if for all this you shall thus persist , and say that the Popish Religion is Rebellion : you first acquit Papists from suffering death , banishment , or imprisonment , under the Raign of the three last Princes , for their several Treasons and Rebellions ; and lay the guilt thereof upon the blood-thirstiness of the Laws , and of the several Kings and Parliaments by which they were made : And secondly , you add hereby more Martyrs to the Roman Kalender , then all the Protestants in the world ever did besides .

36. But this you do not only say , but you prove it too ( at the least ▪ you think so . ) Your argument is this , 1. That Religion which defineth the deposition of Princes , and absolving their subjects from their fidelity by the Pope , because they deny Transubstantiation , &c. is rebellion doctrinal . But such is the Popish Religion : that is to say , the Popish Religion defineth the Deposition of Kings , and absolveth their Subjects from their fidelity by the Pope ▪ because they deny Transubstantiation , &c. The Minor you say is evident ; but I am willing to believe that you mean the Major , & that this only is an escape of the pen , because you do not go about to prove the Major but the Minor only . To the whole Sylogisme , I answer , first , that it is of a very strange complection , both Propositions being false : and therefore that it is impossible by the Rules of Logick , that the conclusion should insue : that the Proposition , or the Major as they generally call it , is altogether false , may be proved by this ; that the thing which teacheth , cannot be the thing which is taught , no more then a Preacher can be said to be the word by him preached ; or the Dog which hunts the Hare , is the Hare which is hunted : so that although the Religion of the Church of Rome had defined the Deposition of Kings by the Pope , for denying Transubstantiation ▪ &c. ( as it never did ) yet could not the Popish Religion upon that account be called Rebellion , Rebellion by the Law of England 25. Edw. 3. c. 2. is defined to be an actual levying of War against our Soveraign Lord the King in h● Realm , or an adhering to the Kings enemies in his Realm , giving to them aid and comfort in the Realm , or elsewhere . And by the Civil Law all those qui arripiant arma contra eum cujus jurisdictioni subditi sunt , who tak up arms against such persons , to whose Authority they are subject , are declared to be Rebels , for which see Spigelus in his Lexicon of the terms of Law . But that Religion which defineth the Deposition of Princes by the Pope , because they deny Transubstantiation , &c. is not an actual levying of War against our Soveraign Lord the King in his Realm , or an adhering , & c.. Nor the the taking up of Arms against such persons to whose Authority they are subject ▪ Therefore that Religion which defineth the Deposition of Princes , &c. neither is really or nominally to be called Rebellion ; if either the laws of England , or the Civil laws do rightly understand what Rebellion is , as I think they do . And whereas you hope to mend the matter by calling it a Rebellion doctrinal , you make it worse on your side then it was before , For besides that there is no such thing as Rebell on doctrinal ( though some Doctrines there may be too frequently preached for inciting the people to Rebellion ) you find not the word Doctrinal in the proposition which you have undertook to prove , and wh en presents it self simply to you in these words , that the Religion of the Papists is Rebellion .

37. Such being the faultinesse of your Mejor , we will next consider whether the Assumption or your Minor be any thing more evident then your Major was . Your Minor is , that the Popish Religion is such , that is to say , such a Religion that defineth the Deposition of Kings by the Pope , because they deny Transubstantiation , &c. This is the matter to be proved , and you prove it thus , That which is defined by a Pope and General Councel , is the Popish Religion : But the aforesaid Doctrine is defined by a Pope and an approved General Councel , viz , at the Laterane under Innocent the 3. Erge , &c. This makes it evident indeed , that you never saw the Cannons nor Decrees of the Laterane Councel , ( and possibly your learning may not lie so high ) but that you took this passage upon trust , from some ignorant hand , which had seen them as little as your self . Your Major I shall grant for true ; but nothing can be falser or mere unable to be proved then your Minor is . Consult the Acts of that Councel , search into all Editions of them , and into the Commentaries of such Cannonists as have writ upon them , and you shall neither find in the one or the other , that the Deposition of Kings and Princes by the Pope was defined to be lawful , ( for that I take to be your meaning , either for denying Transubstantiation , or for any other cause whatsoever . Most true it is , that the word Transubstantiation then newly hammered on the Anvil by some of the Schoolmen to expresse that carnal presence of Christ in the Sacrament , as they then maintained , was first received in this Councel ; and received then ad ●vitanda● haere●icorum tergiversationes , as my Author hath it , for avoiding the wrangling● and fallacious shifts , which Hereticks otherwise might use . But that the word was made such an Idol in this Councel that all Christian Kings and Princes which would no● fall down and worship it , were to be deposed , hath neither colour nor foundation in the Acts of that Councel . And therefore I wil first lay down the Canon which I think you aim at , for otherwise there is none in that Councel which you can pretend to : and then acquaint as well with the occasion and the meaning of it , and your own mistakings .

38. And first , the words of the Canon ( as these now stand in the Tomes of the Councels are these that follow , Si quis Dominus temporalis requisitus & monitus ab Ecclesia terram suam purgare neglexerit ab hac haeretica foeditate , per Metropolitanum & com provinciales Episcopos excommunicationis ●inculo innodetur . Etsi satisfacere contempserit infra annum significetur hoc summo Poniifici , ut ex tunc ipse vassallos ab ejus fidelitate denunciet absolutos , & terram exponant catholicis occupandam qui eam exterminatis haereticis ●ine ulla contradictione possideant , & in fidei puritate conservent , salvo jure domini principalis , dummodo super hoc ipse nullum praestet obstaculum , nec aliquod impedimentum opp●nat , eadem nihilominus lege servata circa eos qui non habent Dominos principales , such is the Canon or Decree . And this was the occasion of it . The Albigenses and Waldenses , differing in many points from the received opinions of the Church of Rome , and constantly denying the Popes Supremacy amongst other things , some years before the calling of this Councel , was grown to a very great power and insolencie ▪ countenanced therein by the two last Raimonds Earls of Tholouse , and some of the Petit Lords of Gascoyn ; all which , though absolute enough in their several Territories in respect of their vassals , but were fudataries either to the Empire or the Kings of France , as the Lords in chief , for the reduction of these Albingenses to the Church of Rome . Dominick a Spaniard ( the Founder afterwards of the Order of Dominical Fryars ) used his best endeavours in the way of Argument and perswasion but failing of his design therein , he instigated Pope Innocent the 3. to call this Councel , Anno , 1215. and the Prelates there assembled , to passe this Canon for the suppressing both of them and their Patrons also ; for having summed up the principle heads of that Religion which was then publickly maintained in the Church of Rome , they framed an Oath to be taken by all secular Magistrates , ut haereticos universos ab Ecclesia denotatos bona fide pro viribus ex terminare studeant , to use their best endeavours for the exterminating of all Hereticks ( that is to say , all such as did oppose those Doctrines before laid down ) out of their dominions : and then it followeth , as before , si quis vero dominus temporalis , &c , that if any Temporal Lord being thereunto required by the Church , should neglect to purge his Territories of that Infection , he should be excommunicated by the Metropolitan and other Bishops of that Province in which he lived ; and if he gave no satisfaction within the year , notice thereof was to be given to the Pope , that thereupon he might absolve his vassals from their Allegiance , and give their Countries to the next Catholick Invador . who on the rooting out of the Hereticks should possess the same , to the end that he might keep it in the holy Faith . But this was with a salvojure , a preservation of the Rights and Interests of the Lords in chief , if they gave no hindrance to the work . And with this clause , that it should after be extended to those also which had no Lord Paramount superiour to them . According unto which decree , the Albigenses and their Patrons were warred on by the Kings of France , till both sides were wearied with the War ; and compounded it at last upon these conditions : viz. That Alphonso younger brother to King Lewis the 9. of France , should marry Joan daughter and heir to the last Raimond , and have with her the full possession of the Country after his decease ; provided also , that if the said parties died without issue , the whole estate should be escheated to the Crown , as in fine it did , An. 1270.

39. This the occasion of the Canon and this the meaning and the consequent of it ; but what makes this to the Deposing of Kings and such supreme Princes as have no Lord Paramount above them . For if you mean such inferiour Princes as had Lords in chief , your argument was not home to the point it aimed at . If you alledge that Emperours and Kings ( as well as such inferiour Princes ) are hooked in the last clause of , viz eadem nihilominus lege servata circa eos qui dominos non habent principales : I answer with the learned Bishop of Rochester in his book De Potestate Papae , ● . 1. c. 8. clausulam istam à Parasito al quo , & Pontificiae tyrannidis ministro , assutam esse : that it was patched unto the end of the decree , by some Parasite or other Minister of the See of Rome . And this he proves by several reasons ; as namely , that Christian Kings and Emperours are n●● of such low esteem as to be comprehended in those general words , qui dominos non habent principales ▪ without being specially designed and distinguished by their soveraign Titles . Secondly , that if any such thing had been intended , it is not likely that the Embassadors of such Kings and Emperors who were then present in that Councel , would ever have consented to it ; but rather have protested against it , and caused their Protestation to be registred in the Acts thereof in due form of Law . Thirdly , In one of their Rescripts of the said Pope Innocent , by whom this Councel was confirmed , in which ●e doth plainly declare ; That when inferiour persons are named or pointed at in any of his Commissions , majores & digniores sub generali clausula non intelligantur includi : that is to say , that persons of more eminent rank , are not to be understood as comprehended in such general clauses . Adde hereunto , that in the manner of the proceeding prescribed by this Canon , such temporal Lords as shall neglect to purge their Countries of the filth of Heresies , were to be excommunicated by the Metropolitan and other Bishops of that Province ( per Metropolitanum & ceteros com . provinciales Episcopos , as the Canon hath it ) before the Pope could take any cognizance of the cause . And I conceive that no man of reason can imagine that the Metropolitane and Provincial Bishops , could or durst exercise any such jurisdiction upon those Christian Kings and Emperours under whom they lived . I grant indeed , that some of the more turbulent Popes did actually excommunicate , ( and as much as in them lay ) depose some Christian Kings and Emperors , sometimes by arming their own Subjects against them , and sometimes giving their Estates and Kingdomes to the next Invador . But this makes nothing to your purpose , most of those turbulencies being acted before the sitting of this Councel , none of them by authority from any Councel at all ; but carried on by them ex plenitudine potestatis , under pretence of that unlimited power which they had arrogated to themselves over all the world , and exercised too frequently in these Western parts .

40. Such is the Argument by which you justifie M. Burton in his first position , viz. That the Popish Religion is Rebellion : and may it not be proved by the very same argument , that the Calvinian Religion is Rebellion also . Calvin himself hath told us in the closes of his Institutions , that the 3 Estates in every Kingdome , ( Pareus in his Comment on Rom 13. ) that the inferiour Magistrates , and Buchannan ( in his book Dejure Regni ) that the people have a power to curb and controll their Kings , and in some cases , ( as in that of Male-administration ) to depose him also ; which is much as any of the Popes Parasites have ascribed unto him : If you object that these are only private persons and speak their own opinions , not the sense of the Churches ; I hope you will not say that Calvin is a private person , who sate as Pope over the Churches of his platform ; whose writings have been made the Rule and Canon by which all men were to frame their judgments ; and whose authority in this very point , hath been made use of for the justifying of Rebellious actions . For when the Scots Commissioners were commanded by Queen Elizabeth to give a reason of their proceedings against their Queen , whom not long before they had deposed from the Regal Throne ; they justified themselves by the authority of Calvin ; whereby they endeavoured to prove ( as my Author hath it ) That the Popular Magistrates are appointed and made to moderate and keep in order the excesse and unrulinesse of Kings ; and that it was lawful for them to put the Kings that be evil and wicked into prison , and also to deprive them of their kingdoms . Such instances as this we may find too many , enough to prove that none of the three above mentioned ( though the two last were private persons ) delivered their own opinions only but the sense of the party . The Revolt of the Low-Countries from the King of Spain , the man●old embroilments made by the Hugonots in France , the withholding of the Town Embden from its natural Lord , the Count of Friesland ; the commotions in Brandenburg , the falling off of the Bohemians from the house of Austria , the translating of the Crown of Sweden from Sigismond K. of Poland to Charles Duke of Suderman ( the father of the great Gustavus ) ; the Armies thrice raised by the Scots against King Charls , and the most unnatural warrs in England , with the sad consequents thereof : by whom were they contrived and acted but by those of the Calvinian Faction , and the predominancy which they have ( or at the least aspired unto ) in their several Countries . The Genevians having lead the dance in expelling their Bishop , whom they acknowledged also for their temporal Prince ; the daughter Churches thought themselves obliged to follow their dear Mother Church in that particular , and many other points of Doctrine : sic instituere majores posteri imitantur , as we read in Tacitus .

41. But against this blow you have a Buckler , and tell me , that if any Protestant Writer should teach the same that puts it not into our Creed , as this is in theirs . But first I hope you do not think that whatsoever is agreed in a General Councel , is presently put into our Creed , or becomes an Article of the Faith ; there being some things determined in the first General Councel held by the Apostles in Jerusalem , which being long disused are not now binding at all ; and such as are now binding not being observed because they were decreed in that Councel , but as they have their foundation in the Moral Law . Secondly , if you think the doctrine of Deposing Kings is put into the Papists Creed , you must tell me in what Creed it is ; in none of their old Creeds I am sure of that , nor in the new Creed made by Pope Pius the fourth , nor in the Roman Catechism published by the authority of the Councel of Trent , nor in any other Authentick Record or publick Monument of that Church : for if this doctrine had been made a part of their Creed , as well before as since the Laterane Councel , so many learned men in the Church of Rome ( as Brian , Marsepius , Butavinus , and divers others ) had not writ against it ; nor had so many secular Priests , living or abiding here in England , so freely written in behalf of the Oath of Allegiance ( in which this doctrine is disclaimed ) had it been entertained in that Church as a part of their Creed . And on the other side , why may we not conceive that this doctrine of Deposing Kings is made an Article of the Creed by the Sect of Calvin , considering first how generally it is defended , how frequently practised and endeavoured by them as before was said ; considering secondly , that though many National and Provincial Synods have been held by them in their several and respective Churches , yet did they never in any one of them disclaim this doctrine , or seek to free their Churches from the scandal of it . All which clearly shews that they did very well approve the doctrine , together with all the consequents thereof , in the way of practice . And then , quid interest utrum velim fieri , an gaudeam factum , as the Orator hath it ; what will the difference be I pray you between advising before hand such ungodly practises , and approving of them on the post-fact as they seem to do . For were it otherwise amongst them , they never had a better oportunity to have cleared themselves from being enemies to Monarchical Government ; from justifying such seditious writings , from having a hand in any of those commotions which had before disturbed the peace of Christendome ; then in the Synod of Dort , Anno 1618. where the Commissioners , or Delegates of all the Calvinian Churches , both in the higher and the lower Germany ( those of Geneva and the Switzers being added to them ) were convened together . Their doing nothing in it then , declares sufficiently how well they liked the doctrine , and allowed the practice .

42. Having thus justified M. Burton in his first assertion , you next proceed unto the maintenance of his second ; which is , that the Papists Faith is Faction : and how prove you that ? Marry thus , You say , if it be an article of the Popish Faith , that none are Members of Christ and his Church but the subjects of the Pope , then the Popish Faith is Faction . But the Antecedent is true , being defined by the Pope Leo the 10. in a General Councel This is the Argument by which you hope to justifie M. Burtons second proposition , though afterwards you would be thought to be no approver of his wayes . But let me tell you M. Baxter , your Hypothetical Syllogism is as faulty , and halts as much on both legs as your Categorical . For taking it for granted , that such an article of the Faith was made by Pope Leo the 10. in a General Councel , yet can you not with any reason or justice , either upbraid the whole Faith of the Papists with being a Faction because of the obliquity and partiality of one article of it . Nor 2ly . can the Papist Faith be termed Faction , supposing that any such article had been made in that Councel ; for it would follow thereupon , that if a Canon had been made in the Convocation of the Bishops and Clergie ( which make the representative body of the Church of England , that whosoever should oppose the Rites . and Ceremonies by Law established , should not be capable either of the Sacraments , or Sacramentals , that Canon might be called Faction ; whereas the Faction lies not in the Canon , but in them that do oppose the Ceremonies . Or if any act or statute should be made in a free and lawful Parliament that every one who shall not pay the Subsidies and Taxes imposed on them by the same should be put out of the protection of the Laws of the Land ; that Statute could not be , or be called Faction ; because the Faction lies not in the Act or Statute , but in them who do refuse the payment . My reason is , because the main body of a Church or State , or any of the Products or results thereof , cannot in any propriety of speech , be held for Faction ; whether considered in themselves , or in relation to some few who dislike the same , and violently pursue their dislikes thereof . For Faction ( to speak properly ) is the withdrawing of a smaller or greater number from the main body either of a Church or State , governing themselves by their own Councels , and openly opposing the established Government ; as here in England , they who communicate not with the Church in favour of the Pope of Rome , are commonly called the Popish Faction , as they are called the Puritan Faction who conform not to the Rites and Ceremonies by Law established . But on the other side , the whole body of the Church is by no means to be called a Faction , in reference to either of the opposite parties . And then again , you should have told us whether you take the word Faith in your proposition , for a justifying , historical , temporary Faith , or a Faith of Miracles ; whither you take it for the Habit or Act of Faith , by which they believe , or for the Object of Faith , or that is to say the thing believed : If you can take the word Faith in none of these senses ( as I think you cannot ) it must be taken in a more general comprehension , for the true knowledge and worship of God ; and then it signifies the same with the word Religion ; the Christian Faith and the Christian Religion , denoting but one and the same thing under divers names ; so that upon the whole matter you are but where you were before ; the Papists Religion being no more properly to be called faction in this Proposition , then it was Rebellion in the former : Had you formed your Proposition thus , viz. If it be an Article of the Papists faith , that none are members of Christ and his Church , but the Subjects of the Pope , then the Papists faith ( or rather that one Article of the Papists faith ) tends to the making of a faction , you had come neerer to the truth ; but standing in the same tearms in which I find it , you are as far from it as ever you were .

43. Howsoever taking that your Proposition to be undeniable , you proceed and say , But the Antecedent is true , &c. which is a very strange piece of news to me : You confess your self to be but a sorry Lawyer , and you have shewd your self in this to be but a sorry L●gician neither : For tell me what you mean by the Antecedent , by which ( if you understand the terms of Logick●he●e ●he●e can be nothing understood but the first clause or member in your Proposition : For in every Hypothetical Silogism , the Major P●oposition consisteth of two parts or branches ; whereof the one is called the Antecedent , and the other the Consequent ; as in this of your● , these words , viz. If it be an Article of the Papists R●ligion , that none are members of Christ and his Church , but the Subjects of the Pope , make the Antecedent ; the following words . viz. then the Papists faith is faction , make the consequent of it : Now both these parts or members being laid together , the Proposition is entire and perfect , and may be either true or false , according to the subject matter of it ; as this of yours is by you affirmed to be true , and by me proved to be false ; But the Antecedent in this of yours , as in all other Hypothetical Propositions , being conditional , imperfect , and of no full sense , cannot be said to be either true or false , as your own reason will inform you : For what sense , truth , or falshood can be found in the first branch of your Proposition , viz. If it be an Article of the Papists faith , that none are members of Christ and his Church but the Subjects of the Pope , until the following words be added . Had you formed your Silogism thus , If it be an Article of the Papists faith , that none are members of Christ and his Church , but the Subjects of the Pope , then the Papists faith is faction : But it is an Article of the Papists faith , that none are members of Christ and his Church , but the Subjects of the Pope , Ergo , the Papists faith is faction . Had you contrived it thus , I say , your Silogism had been made in due form of Logick , though either Proposition might haue been denied , as it pleased the Respondent &c. Had you cast your Argument into the form of an Enthimeme , thus , viz. It is an Article of the Papists faith , that none are members of Christ and his Chu●ch but the Subjects of the Pope , Ergo , the Papists faith is Faction ; the Antecedent had been false , and therefore of necessity the consequent of Illation could not passe for true . And such a sorry Disputant was D. Burges , who undertaking to answer in the Divinity Act at Oxon , shewed himself so sufficiently ignorant in the terms of Logick , that in stead of saying negatur major , & negatur minor , he could say nothing else but negatur id . Whereupon D. Prideaux said to him openly with a merry jear , tu potes bene praedicare , sed non potes bene disputare ; that he might possibly be a good preacher , though he had shewed himself but a silly disputant .

44. But taking your meaning along with me , and supposing you to have said the Minor ( as you ought to have called it ) how do you prove it to be true , because say you , It was so defined by Pope Leo the 10. in a General Councel . The Councel which you mean , is called Consilium Lateranense , as the other was ; and you have shewed your self as little skilled in this Laterane Councel as you were in the other . So against that which you have said in this answer of yours , I have these Exceptions ; First , That all things which are not determined nor defined in a General Councel , pass not for Articles of the Faith . Secondly , The Councel held at Rome by Pope Leo the 10. was no General Councel : and Thirdly , There was no such Article of the Faith defined in it , as you say there was : and these three points being proved , I shall close the argument : Haec tria cum docuero perorabo , in the Oracles language . And first all things which are determined and defined in General Councels become not Articles of the Faith , though for the time they bind mens assent unto them until the point be further canvassed , and the mistakes or errours of it manifested in some following Councel . But hereof I have spoken already , and shall adde but this , viz. That if you please to look into the Tomes of the Councels , you will find that they do more consist in Laws and Canons for Reformation of Manners , then either in the D●claration of points of Faith , or the Determination of matters Doctrinal . Secondly the Councel held at Rome by Pope Leo the 10. was no General Councel , as being called on a particular occasion , and consisting of such a slender number of Italian Bishops , that it could hardly make good the Reputation of a National Synod : which that you may the better see , I must let you know the occasion of the calling of that Counsel too ; which was briefly this . Lewis the 12. of France having lately recovered the Dukedome of Millain to which he did pretend some title in the right of his Mother , was warred on by Pope Julio the 2. who liked not the neighbourhood of the French . Ferdinando King of Spain , and some of the Italian Princes , confederating with him in that quarrel . To curb the insolency of the Pope , a Councel is called by the Cardinal S. Severine and Caravaiali at the instigation of the French King , to be held at Pisa , a Town belonging to the Seig●oury and Estate of Florence , Anno 1512. To which some of the French Bishops , and as many Italian Prelates as lived within the Dukedome of Millane , or elsewhere under the command of the F●ench , received order to repair . And on the other side , the Pope to over ballance that Scismatical Councel , ca●sed another to be held in Rome , consisting of so many of the Bishops of Italy as could conveniently be drawn together in a time of War . But Pope Juli● dying not long after , before any thing could be done in that Councel , more then the condemning that of Pisa , and declaring all the Acts thereof to be null and void ; the Cardinal John de Medices succeeded by the name of Pope Leo the 10. who being of a sweeter temper then his predecessor , closed up that breach , admitting the two Cardinals and the rest of the Assembly at Pisa , to a redintegration with the whole body of the Church from which they were before divided . Nothing determined in this Councel touching matters of Faith , but that a Decree was made against some Philosophers ( or rather phylosophizing Schoolmen ) what or about that time had began to teach quod anima rationalis sit mortalis ; that is to say , that the rational soul of man was subject to Mortality . And therefore thirdly , there was no such article of Faith defined in that Councel , that none should be counted members of Christ and his Church , but such as were subject to the Pope . Neither indeed was there any need at that time of this Councel , that any such Definitions should be made ; no new Heresie , or any new doctrine which by them might be called Heresie , being then on foot , ( for Luther did not rise in Germany till this Counsel was ended ) which might create any disturbance to the peace of that Church . If any such priviledges were arrogated by Pope Leo the 10. that none should be accounted members of Christ and his Church but such as were subject to the Pope , which you cannot find definitively in the Acts of that Councel , you must rather have looked for it in the Bulls of that Pope , after Luther had begun to dispute his power , and question his usurped authority over all the Church . In one of which Bulls you may finde somewhat to your purpose ; where you shall find him saying , that the Church of Rome is Mother and Mistress of all Christians ; and that her doctrines ought to be received , of whosoever would be in the Communion of the Church . If this be that you mean , much good do it you with , though this be rather to be taken for a Declaration then a Definition .

45. But if your meaning is ( as perhaps it may be ) that the Papists Faith may be called Faction , because they appropriate to themselves the name of the Church , and exclude all other Christians from being members of Christ and his Church , which are not subject to the Pope , ( as indeed they do ) take heed you lose not more in the Hundreds then you got by the County ; for then it may be proved by the very same Argument , if there were no other : that the Puritan Faith is Faction , and so to be accounted by all that know it , because they do appropriate unto themselves the name of the Church , as the old Affrican Scismaticks confined it , intra partem Donati . For proof whereof , if you please to consult B●shop Bancrofts book of Dangerous Positions an● Proceedings , &c. part. 3. chap. 15. you will find them writing in this manner , viz I know the a a Snape to Field . state of this Church , make known to us the state of the Church with you . Our b b Knewstub to Field . Churches are in danger of such , as having been of us , do renounce all fellowship with us . It is long c c Blake to Field . since I have heard from you ( saith one Blake ) of the state of the Church of London . Another , By M. West and M. Brown you shall understand the state of the Churches wherein we are . A third , If my offence may not be passed by without a further confessi●n , even before God and his Chur●h in London , will I lye down and lick the dust off your feet ( where you may see what it is which the heavenly-mindednesse , the self-denial , meeknesse , and Humility which the brethren aim at ) and confesse it , &c. I have received ( saith the fourth ) a Letter from you in the name of the rest of the Brethren , whereby I understand your joining together in choosing my self unto the service of the Church , under the Earl of Leicester . I am ready to run if the Church command me according to the holy Decrees and Orders of the Discipline . Lay all which hath been said together , and tell me he that can ( my wits not being quick enough for so great a nicety ) whether the Papists Faith , or that of the Puritans most properly and meritoriously may be counted Faction .

46. The third thing in which you seem unsatisfied in what I say , concerning Popery , is , whether it be true or not , that the Popes Decretals , the body of the Canon Law , is to be accepted , ( as not being abrogated ) which being made for the direction and rei●lement of the Church in general , were by degrees admitted and obeyed in these parts of Christendome , and are by Act of Parliament so far still in force , as they oppose not the Prerogative royal or the municipal laws and statutes of this Realm of England . These words I must confesse for mine , owning Hist. Sab. pa. 2. ch. 7. p. 202. and not 210. as your Letter cites it , your parenthesis being only excep●ed ; and you name it this Kingdome in stead of the Realm of England , though both expressions be to one and the same effect . In which you might have satisfied your self by M. Dow , who , as you say , gives some reason for it out of a Statute of Hen. 8. But seeing you remain still unsatisfied in that particular , I shall adde something more for your satisfaction . In order whereunto , you may please to know that in the Stat. 29. Hen. 8. ch. 19. commonly called the Statute of the submission of the Clergy , it is said expresly ▪ First , that the Clergie in their convocation , promised the King in verbo Sa●erdoris ; not to enact or execute any new Canons but by his Majesties royal assent , and by his authority first obtained in that behalf : and secondly , that all such Canons , Constitutions , Ordinances , and Synodals Provincial , as were made before the said submission , which were not contrary or repugnant to the Laws , Statutes , and Customes of this Realm , nor to the dammage or hurt of the Kings Prerogative Royal , were to be used and executed as in former times . By which last clause the Decretal of preceding Popes , having been admitted into this Land , and by several Canons and Constitutions of the Church of England , and the main body of the Canon-law having for a long time been accounted for a standing rule , by which all proceedings in the Courts Ecclesiastical were to be regulated and directed , remain still in force and practice as they had done formerly . But then you are to know withall , that they were no longer to remain in force and practice , then till the said preceding Canons and Constitutions ( as appears by the said Act of Parliament ) should be viewed and accommodated to the use of this Church , by 32. Commissioners selected out of the whole body of the Lords and Commons , and to be nominated by the King . But nothing being done therein during the rest of the Kings reign , the like authority was granted to King Edw. 6. 3. 4. Edw 6. c. 11. And such a progresse was made in it , that a Sub-committee was appointed to review all their said former Canons and Constitutions , and to digest such of them into form and order , as they thought most fit and necessary for the use of this Church . Which Sub committee consisted of eight persons only , that is to say , Thomas Lord Archbishop of Canterbury , Thomas Lord Bishop of Eli , Dr. Richard Cox the Kings Almoner , Peter Martyr his Majesties professor for Divinity , William May , and Rowland Taylor Doctors of the Law , John Lucas , and Richard Gooderick Esquires ; who having prepared and digested the whole work into form and order , were to submit the same to the rest of the 32. and finally to be presented to the King for his Royal Assent and confirmation . And though the said Sub-committee had performed their parts , as appears by the Book entituled , REFORMATIO LEGUM ECCLESIASTICARUM ex authoritate primum Regis HENRICI VIII . inch●a●a . Deinde per Regem EDW. VI. provecta , &c. Reprinted not long since at London , 1641. But that King also dying , before the said Canons so digested and accommodated , could be confirmed and ratified by the Royal Assent , and authorised under the Great Seal of England , the former Canons , Consti●utions and Ordinances , and consequently the Decretals of the Popes and the body of the Canon law , according to the limitations and restrictions by the Statute of King Hen. 8. did remain in force , and so continue to this day : so that your hopes of their not being in force amongst us , declares you for as sorry a Lawyer as you confesse your self to be .

47. Next , when you say , how little you know by what authority the Popes Decretals are laws to the● Church in gen●ral or to us . I will improve you● knowledge in that particular also as far as I can : and for so doing , I am to put you in mind , that the Popes for a long tract of time , were possessed of the Supreme power in Ecclesiastical matters over all the Churches in the Western and North-western parts , and amongst others , in this also ; and that he did pretend the like authority over all the Churches in the East and South : so that their Decretals were made by them intentionally to serve for a rule and reiglement of the Church in general , but were admitted only in the Churches of the Western and North-western parts , which did acknowledge his Supremacy , and made themselves subject to his power . But having now shaken off his power in the three Kingdomes of England , Scotland , and Ireland , in the three Realms of Denmark , Norway , and Sweden ; in the united Provinces of the Netherlands , and many great Provinces and Estates of the Higher Germany , besides some thousands of the Protestant Churches in the Realm of France : he hath now lost that power which before he challenged , of making laws for the Government of the Church in general ; though such of them as we here received , are still so far in force , as I have affirmed ; that is to say , according to the sad restrictions and limitations before laid down . And therefore I can well maintain , that the Pope and his Councels had a power ( you never heard me say he hath ) of imposing his Decretals and the body of the Canon law , as a law for the Government of so much of the Church as was then actually under his command , having been made intentionally for the reiglement of the Church in general , and that being here received , are still so far in force ( that is to say , in such form and maner ) as I have affirmed ; and yet not grant that he and his Councels have any such power at this present time , or that are , and all other Christians must be thought to be his Subjects ; which is the thing you seem glad to understand ; if ever I should put my self to the trouble of writing to you again , as I have done now .

48. Having thus laid before you the true state of the Question , I am in the next place to answer such Objections as you make against it ; and your Objections being built chiefly on your own thoughts , and such hopes as you had fancied to your self : For want of knowledg in these matters , will be easily answered . You object first , That you will yet hope that they are not in force ; but I have proved to you that they are . And you object next , That you thought the Acts that impose the Oathes of allegeance and supremacy , had disobliged us from all forreigue power , and nulled the Pope's authority in England ; and though you thought well enough in this ; yet if you think that because those Acts of Parliament above mentioned , have disobliged us from all forreign power , and nulled the Popes authority in England ; and therefore that all the Decretals of the former Popes , or Canons and Constitutions Ecclesiastical , made in times of Popery , are either by those Acts and Oths anulled and abrogated ; your thoughts will prove to be as deceitful , as your hopes are groundless , and therefore when you say , that if ever you live to see another Parliament ( which you are like to do very shortly , if the news be true ) you will crave a freedom from that bondage . I would fain know from what b●ndage you desire this freedom ; If from subjection to the Pope , you are freed from it by the Act primo Eliz. cap. 1. by which all the Popes authority and jurisdiction in the Realm of England , as well over the consciences as the pens of men , were finally exterminated and abolished : If from their Canons and Decrees made , and in force within this Realm , before the 25. of King Henry 8. they were confirmed by the Parliament of that year ( according to the limitations before expressed ) and are so complicated since that time with the Laws of the Land , that the alteration will be far more difficult then you may imagine ; so that you may do well to spare your address to the following Parliament , and reserve that strong influence which you believe you have upon it , for some greater occasions , or at the least , for such as are more possible to be compassed then this present project : Besides you may be pleased to know , that a great part of the Civil or Imperial Laws are in force amongst us ; and that they are the standing rules by which the Court of Admiralty , as also that for the probate of Wills and Testaments are generally regulated and directed : and yet you may conclude as strongly , that because no forreign Prince , Person , Prelate , State , or Potentate , hath or ought to have any jurisdiction , power , superiority , preheminence , or authority within this Realm ; no not the Emperour himself , though honoured with the Title of Augustus Cesar , and such like glorious attributes , belonging to the Roman Empire ; therefore the Civil and Imperial Laws , so long continued in this Kingdom , are to be reckoned of no force and effect amongst us , but to be utterly abrogated and abolished also ; which if it should be took for granted ( as you take the other ) you must then double your design in moving and soliciting the next Parliament to free you from that yoke of bondage ; that the Pontificial and Imperial laws may be for ever banished and expelled this Kingdome , that so it may be said of us as Haman once objected against the Jews , their Laws were contrary to all Nations ; Divis●s orbe Brittannos , even in that sense also . It is reported of Alphonso surnamed the Wise , one of the Kings of Castile in Spain , that he used many times to say ( never the wiser for so saying ) that if he had stood at Gods elbow when he made the World , many things should have been ordered better then they were in the first Creation . Take heed left that you be thought no wiser then Alphonso was , in pressing at the Parliament dores , and urging your desires for abrogating all those ancient Canons and Constitutions , by what name soever they are called , and by what Authority soever they were first enacted , which so many Kings and Queens of this Realm have continued in force , and so many Parliaments since the first Reformation have left unquestioned .

49. Your Letter now draws towards an end , in which you professe some seeming gladnesse , that I whom you call the Primipilus amongst the defenders of the late turgid and persecuting sort of Prelacy ( I like your words so well that I must needs bring them to a repetition ) do so freely disclaim the Grotian Religion ( which you say you never charged me with ) and thereupon conceive some confident hopes that the rest of the Prelatical Clergie will disown it also . How far the most of the Prelatical Clergie shall think fit to disown the Grotian Religion ( as you have described it in your book ) I am not able to determine Aetatem habent they are all old enough to answer for themselves if you put them to it . But if you have no better hopes of their disowning , then you have assurances from me of my disclaiming that Religion , you may cry out , O spe● inanes & frustra cogitationes meae , without help or remedy . For tell me , I beseech you , where is it that I have so freely disclaimed the Grotian Religion as you say I have . Not in my letter I am sure , there is no such matter . All that I say in that , is no more then this , that I could have wished you had spared my name ( in that Preface of yours ) unlesse you could have proved me to have been one of that Religion , as I think you cannot . Which notwithstanding I may be one of that Religion , and yet may warrantably think that you cannot prove it ; you being so great a stranger to my private discourses , and finding nothing to that purpose in publick writings . But whether I positively am , or really am not of the Grotian Religion , ( that is to say , of that Religion of Hugh Grotius , of which M. Baxter hath given us a description by his opinions ) I am not bound to tell you now , finding my self unwilling by such an unnecessary declaration to engage my self with fresh disputes , with any one of either party , who finds himself unsatisfied with it , may involve me in . But so farr I assure you , I am of the Religion of Hugh Grotius , that I wish as heartily as he did , that the breaches in the walls of Jerusalem were well closed up ; that the Puritans submitting to the Church of England , and the Church of England being reconciled with the Church of Rome , we might unite and center in those sacred truths , those undeniable principles , and established Doctrines , which have been universally received in the Church of Christ , and in which all parties doe agree ; and then I little doubt but that the Lutheran Churches in Germany , Denmark , Sweden , and Norway , and the Calvinian party in their several Countries , would not unwillingly take the benefit of a publick peace ▪ leaving all doubtful disputations to be managed in the publick Schools , not prest with so much heat and with so little edification to the weak in faith in the common pulpits . This I am certain is no more then what is taught us in the prayer for the good estate of Christs Church militant here upon the earth . In which we do beseech the Divine Majesty , to inspire continually the universal Church with the spirit of truth , unity , and concord ; and to grant that all they which do confesse his holy name , may agree in the truth of his holy word , and live in unity and godly love : which godly and most Christian prayer , I do most heartily recommend to your consideration ; and not unto your consideration only , but your practice also ; as I do you , and all that do delight in the spirit of unity , to his heavenly blessings , who is the Author of Peace and the Lover of Concord . And this I do with that affection which becometh

Your very humble Servant , and Christian Brother in Jesus Christ to be commanded Peter Heylyn . Lacies Court in Abingdon , Decemb. 10. 1658.

50. When I had finished this Answer and found it to amount to a greater bulk then was first desired ▪ I was in some conflict with my self by what means it might so come to M. Baxter that it might also be communicated to such others , as had took notice of the injury done me , and might expect to have some notice also of the right I had done my self . I had some reason to believe that M. Baxter had imparted the Contents of his Letter to some or other of his friends before it was dispatcht to me ; to the end that they might see , and know , and relate to others of that party , to what a sad reckoning he had called me . And how , unable I must prove to render an account of those several charges , which he had justly laid upon me . And I had reason to suspect , that when he had perused my answer , and seen how little he had gotten by the Provocation , it might be secretly kept by him , or perhaps , committed to the fire for the greater security ; that on the one side he might be held to be invincible by those who look upon him as the Atlas which supports the cause , and on the other side I might be condemned for an 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , by my silence had declared my self guilty of a self : conviction . There was somewhat also to be done in reference to the conformable clergy and the Prelatical Divines , as also ▪ to the turgid and persecuting sort of Prelates ; who otherwise could not but admire that I who had been so active in vindicating the fame and reputation of other men , should be so lame and negligent in preserving my own . And other way I could find none to satisfie all parties and right my self , then to publish these passages betwixt M. Baxter and my self ; and so to publish them that coming , from the presse as M. Baxters first provocation had done before , it might be universally dispersed over most parts of the Land . If any shall conceive my Answer to be too long , he shall conceive no otherwise of it then I do my self . But I was willing to take some pains with him to satisfie him word by word , and line by line , where I found any thing considerable in it self , or capable of receiving satisfaction from me . And to say truth , I have been the more punctual and exact in all particulars , that M. Baxter having sufficient measure , pressed down , if not running over also , might rest himself contented with that satisfaction , and supercede all further troubles to himself or me . And being he hath pleased to conclude his Letter with a complemental desire of pardon for the displeasing plainnesse of it : I shall also conclude this discourse between us , with an assurance to him of my kind acceptance of that Letter ; there being nothing which can be more agreeable to me then an honest plainnesse . And as for pardon , there needs none where there is no injury complained of , as by me there is not . And therefore I shall shut up all in these words of S. Jerome to S. Augustine , on the like entercourse between them ; viz. Non tam stultus sum , ut diversitate explanationum tuarum , me ladi putem , quia nec tu laesiris , si nos contraria senserimus .

A POST-SCRIPT To the former Answer : Containing The Exchange of Letters between Dr. Heylyn and Dr. Barnard , tonching the intended burning of the book called Respondit Petrus : With that which followed thereupon .

51. MY Answer long enough before , must be made longer by this Post script ; because I would not leave you ( M. Baxter ) without full satisfaction to every point you have objected in your Letter , or keep you longer in suspense then needs I must . You gave some glances in your Letter of the burning of Books for which you had no ground in either of the places you refer me to , where you find nothing at all touching the burning of the books of the Sabbatarians , but only of the suppressing and calling of them in , which made me apt enough to think ( as I told you then ) that you intended that for a private nip relating to a book of mine called Respondit Petrus , which was publickly noised abroad to have been publickly burnt in London ( as indeed the burning of it was severely prosecuted , though it scaped the fire . A full account whereof being too long to be incorporated into the body of that Answer I promised then to give you in a place by it self . And therefore I have writ this Post-script to make good that promise . I wish you too well to suffer you to remain long in any errour which I am able to remove , or to be wrought upon by any false rumours and reports which I am able to disperse ; and as I have endeavoured the first in all my applications to you , so I shall now endeavour the last , that I may disperse the others also . And this I shall the rather do , that I may , Duos parletes una fidelia dealbare , as in the Latine , or , Kill two birds with one Stone , in the English Proverb . My satisfying you in this publique manner will much contribute to the undeceiving of such others also , who either out of too much credulity in themselves , or dis-affection toward me , have been as apt to report as they were easie to believe it . Many such I have had the chance to meet with , as well at London as elsewhere , in whom this Fame had taken so deep a root that I could hardly pluck it up ; Some of them whom I endeavoured to perswade to a dis-belief of that false report , conceiving rather that I rather spake favourably for my selfe , then advantagiously and impartially for the truth of the fact . And if those persons whom I met with were so hardly satisfied , when they heard the story from my self , how much more hardly could such others receive satisfaction who live farther off , and could have it only from my friends But beside this there was another motive to induce me to it , and that is the preventing of all such as possibly may make use of that report to my disadvantage ; For whereas Mr. Sanderson ( in the end of his Post Haste , scurrilous Pamphlet called the Reply , &c. hath used some threats , That , whensoever I shall appear armed again , he will be ready to meet me at my own weapon , be it sharp or smooth ) he will be apt to catch at any thing which may serve his turn , without examining the truth , or enquiring into the certainty of it . The like measure I may chance to have from some others also , who speak as big , and threaten me as much as he , but threatened men live long , they use to say , so perhaps may I , and sure I am , that none of these threatnings will prevail so far upon me , as to shorten the number of those dayes I have to come , for your sake therefore and for theirs , I have drawn up a full and perfect Narrative of the whole business in this manner following .

The Intercourse of LETTERS , Between D. Heylyn and D. Barnard , Touching the intended burning of the Book called Respondit Petrus .

52. PHylosophers tell us of a Meteor , called Ignis fatuus , whose property it is to lead men out of their way , and draw them many times into dangerous precipices ; and such an Ignis fatuus hath of late deceived and abused many in all parts of the Land , whom therefore I shall endeavour to unundeceive , and bring them back into the way of truth and knowledge .

The fame is , and it is made a common fame by the , spreading of it , That the Book called Respondit Petrus hath been publiquely burnt , and burnt by the order of the Council : A fame which hath little truth in it , though it hath more colour for it , and appearances of it , then many other charges which have lately been laid upon me . Concerning which the Reader , may be pleased to know , That on Saturday the 26. of June last past , intelligence was given to a friend of mine , that an Order was sent by the Council to the Lord Mayor of London , requiring him to see the Book called Respondit Petrus , to be called in and publiquely burnt . Notice whereof being given to me , who was then in London , I was advised by some of my friends to neglect the matter , it being a thing that would redound unto my honour ( as they pleased to say ) considering it might be rationally concluded by all knowing me , that the Book could not other wise be confuted then by fire and faggot . I knew full well what sentence had been passed by Facitus , upon the order of the Senate or great Consul of Rome , for burning the Books of Cremutius Cordus the Historian , Neque aliud externi Reges , aut qui eadem sevitia usi sunt , nisi dedecus sibi , a ▪ que illis gloriam peperere , that is to say , that such who formerly had exercised that kind of severity , gained nothing but ignominie to themselves , and glory to all those whose Books they burnt . But for my part I was rather of Sir John Falstaffs minde in that particular , and did not like such grinning honour , and therefore chose rather to prevent the obloquie , then to glory in it . In order whereunto , I thought fit to apply my self to D. Barnard of Grays Inn , who as he first began the quarrel , in publishing the Book Entituled , The Judgment of the late ▪ Lord Primate , &c. so was he supposed to have moved the first wheel in the Engine , although he stood behind the Curtain , and appeared not in it ; conceiving that if he might be taken off , the whole business would soon come to nothing , without any more ado ; upon which ground I wrote the following Letter to him on the Munday morning , and received his answer to the same in the afternoon ; the Coppies of which Letter , and the answer to it I shall here subjoyn .

Dr. Heylyn's Letter to Dr. Barnard . SIR ,

53. WIth what unwillingness I entred upon my answer to that Book of Yours , Entituled , The Judgment of the Late Lord Primate , &c. I doubt not but you have found before this time , both in the Preface to it , and the two first Paragraphs of it . In handling of which argument , as I kept myselfe within the bounds of Modesty and Christian Charity , so I expected I should have been encountred with no other weapons then such as I brought into the field out of the Magazines and Store-houses of the ancient Fathers , and some of the most Learned Writers of these latter times . But contrary to my expectation I was advertised on Saturday night , that certain Articles have been presented against that Book to the Lords of the Council , and that it is ordered thereupon by some of their Lordships , that the Lord Mayor of London , and one Mr. Weeler of Westminster shall seize upon the said books and see them burnt . I have so much charity as to think that this is done without your privity and consent , but I cannot but conceive withall that if the business be carried on to such extreamities , the generality of men will not be so perswaded of it ; but that it will be rather thought , that since the matter of that book was not otherwise to be answered , it was thought fittest to confute it by fire and faggot . How little such a course may possibly redound to your honour amongst men of ingenuity and learning I leave you to judge . And though I am no fit Counsellour for such a business , in which I am concerned as the principal party ; yet if you please to take the matter into your serious consideration , you will perhaps find no councel more fit to be followed , then that you presently appear in putting some stop to those proceedings ; which though for the present they may end with some disgrace to me , will bring no credit to your self . If there be any thing in that Book either for matter or expression , which you stumble at , try it ou● with me by the Pen , or by personal conference , as becomes a Scholar and Divine ; and if you bring better reason on your side , then I have on mine , I shall be your Convert ; if not , the burning of the Book will neither suppress the Argument , nor confute the Author ; but only shew how passionately some men are carried to their private ends , under the pretence of publique justice . Your answer hereunto shall be attended in the afternoon : In the mean time , I recommend these my desires to your consideration , as I do you unto the grace and blessings of almighty God , with the affection which becomes ,

SIR , Your very humble Servant , and Christian Brother , Peter Heylyn . Lond. Jun. 28. 1658. D. Barnard's Letter to D. Heylyn . SIR ,

54. FOr that Order mentioned in your Letter , I find your charity prevented me , in any further assurance of you , that I was not the mover of it . Since your Servant was here , I have further enquired after the ground of it ; and this I am told , That it was not in relation to the Primate , or me , or any disputes between us ; but only to the Ordinance of the Lords and Commons , Anno 1644. For the better observation of the Lords day ; wherein there is such a clause as this , That whosoever have or shall write against it , the Books shall be burned by the hands of justice .

For my part , I have no minde either by personal conference , or the Pen ( as you write ) to have any disputes or contentions with you , in that or any other subject ; neither do I intend to give any answer to your last Book : And had I been acquainted with you , I should have advised you , as a friend , for your own sake , not to have shewn so much disaffection to that eminent and pious Primate ; for which I find you condemned by most , if not by all sorts of persons , as the sole man so declared against him : and as he is too high in the esteem of the world to receive any injury by you ; so what liberty you have been pleased to take in some expressions concerning me , either in your former Book or this , I can easily pass it over in silence , without the least breach of Charity ; and notwithstanding , shall be ready to do you what service may lye within my compass : But for the Order , seeing I was no mover of it to the Lords of the Council , and that it doth no ways concern me , it is not proper for me to interpose in it . I rest ,

SIR , Your very humble Servant , and Christian Brother , N. Barnard . Grays Inn , Jun. 28. 1658.

55. Having received this Letter , and considered the contents thereof ; I found it no way necessary nor convenient for me , to trouble my self with a reply : for first , I was unwilling to be brought under a new temptation , in having more to do in any thing which related to the late Lord Primate , but where extream necessity should compel me to it ; though D. Barnard very unadvisedly ( that I say no way ) endeavoured in the last part of his Letter , to put me upon fresh ingagements ; to what else tended those upbraidings of my disaeffction to that eminent and pious Prelate , from which I had cleared my self before , and that twice for failing ? His reproaches of my being condemned , for I know not what , by most , if not by all sorts of persons ? Whereas I have reason to believe , that he hath spoke with very few upon that subject , and therefore cannot know the mind of the most , and much less of all sorts of men ; or the reiteration of the high esteem in the world , which the Lord Primate had above me , being so willingly acknowledged by me in the beginning of that Book which was then in question . Had I not tied my self to this resolution , I could have directed D. Barnard to a passage in the Preface of a Book , called Canterburys Doom , by which he might be satisfied , that as I was not the first , so I am not the only one who had declared against his eminent pious Prelate , as he saith he was . But howsoever , had he been greater then he was , and I less then I am , I should not have been terrified from writing in my own defence , or doing the best service I was able to the Church of England , whose Doctrine , Government , and established Order I found so openly opposed . And secondly , I had the less reason to make any reply , because I found no hopes that D. Barnard would be perswaded to do himself or me any right in either of the ways proposed : For first , he had declared before hand , when he published the Lord Primates Papers , that he would not take upon him the defence of any thing contained in them : For thus he tells us in his Preface , If ( saith he ) the Readers opinion shall descent any of the above-named , or swell into an opposition , let him not expect any defensive arms to be taken up by me , it being my part to declare his judgment as I find it , &c. By which it seems that D. Barnard had no other intention , then to add more fewel unto those combustions , which had so long embroyled the Church ; and not to bring any water to quench the flame . Secondly , He declared in this present Letter , That for his part , he had no mind , either by the Pen or personal conference , to have any disputes or contentions with me , in that or any other subject : and finally ( which most concerned me in relation to the present business ) he had apparantly declined to appear in any thing , for the reversing of that Order , which was supposed to have been made by the Lords of the Councel ; it being improper , as he saith , for him to interpose therein , with the Lords of the Council , to whom he had been no mover in it , and no more concerned in that Order then he saith he was ; so that I found my self necessitated to tack about , and try if I could stere my course by another compass ; Hac non successit , alia tentandum est , via , as it is in the Comedy .

56. For D. Barnard having thus left the field , without so much as looking towards it at all , and left the business in the same state in which he found it ; the next morning I addressed some few lines unto the Lord Mayor , Sir Richard Chiverton , a person of known prudence and moderation ; beseeching him , that if any such Order had been sent unto him , from the Lords of the Council , he would be pleased to respite the execution of it for a day or two , there being litle doubt on my part , but that I might be able within that time , to procure an Order from the Council for the reversing of that Judgment , if any such judgment had been given in the case before : to which Letter , the Lord Mayor returned this answer , by word of mouth , That he would not be over hasty in a business of that nature ; and that he had commited the Book to the perusal of some grave and learned Divines about the City , and that having received their opinions of it , he should be better able to resolve what he had to do . On the return of which answer , I presently applied my self to a chief Personage in the Council of State , from whom I might assure my self of all lawful favours : But there I found I had been in an error all this while , as to that particular ; that honourable Person giving me to understand , that no such Order had been made by the Council , as to the burning of the Book ; that information had been made by the Council , as to the burning of the Book , that information had been made to the Bar against it , with no small importunity by him that followed the imformation : For having Order from their Lordships for the burning of it , according to the Ordinance mentioned in the Doctors Letter ; finally , that the Council did no more in it , then to commit the whole matter to the Lord Mayor of London , to be proceeded in according to his discretion .

57. Being thus assured from all fear and danger on that side , I made it my next business to enquire after the names of those to whom the Lord Mayor had committed the perusal of it ; and understanding who they were , I was less solicitous then before : For well I knew , that men of so much modesty as I knew some of them to be , would not be easily moved to pronounce any thing rashly , either of the Book , or of the Author ; especially considering , that if that Book should be condemned to the fire , not only many of the Ancient Fathers , but even Calvin , Beza , Zanchius , Vrssin , and many other leading men of the Reformation , must have suffered in the same flame also ; being all cited by me , for the confirmation of my judgment , as to that particular . And so this busine●s having made so great a noise at first , began as suddenly to repose , and in short time to come to nothing , there being nothing effected by it , but a continuation of the fame , made greater by the spreading of it , and findthe more credit the farther it went , according to the nature of such reports ; which we have thus described by Ovid , in his Metamorphosi● , where he lays down the Character of the House of Fame .

Ovid. Metamorph. lib. 12. — lata est ex are sonanti , Lata fremit , vocesque refert iteratque quod audit , &c. Atria turba tenet , veniunt l●ve vulgus exeuntque . Mixtaque cum veris , passim commenta vagantur , &c. Hi narrata ferunt alio , mensuraque ficti ; Crescit , & auditis aliquid novus adjicit Autor .

Which with the rest , are thus translated by George Sandys .

All built of ringing brass , throughout resounds , They hear reports , and every word rebounds , &c. Hither the idle vulgar come and go ; Millions of rumors wander too and fro : Lyes mixt with truths , in words that vary still , Of these , with news unknowing ears some fill ; Some carry tales ; all in the telling grows , And ev'ry Author adds to what he knows .

58. According to this Character of the House of Fame , the report of burning the Book aforesaid , being taken thence , flew far , and grew the greater by the flying ; affirmed so confidently to be true , by some whose business it was to disperse the fame ; as if the very flame and smoake of the fire which burned it , might easily have been discerned at High-Gate , or from Shooters-Hill : But false fires are of short continuance , so hath this been also ; the sooner quencht , if by my satisfying you , I may give satisfaction unto all the rest who have been abused in the report . Had D. Barnard done me right , or consulted his own credit in it , I might have saved the pains of writing , and you the trouble of reading this present Narrative , But being as it is , we must thank him for it , who having so imprudently begun the quarrel , refused to justifie it by the pen , or a personal conference , which had he done , there would have been no need of any such fame , which might either never have been conceived , or else might have been strangled in the birth , without the least wrong to any : But D. Barnard thought himself secure enough from falling into any such disgrace , for publishing the Lord Primates Judgment , &c. as was intended to the Book and the Author of it , by which he found it to be answered ; and therefore pleads it fitter for him to take his ease and let things happen as they would . In that point not so equal and impartial as the Heathen Orator , who held it most agreeable to the rules of Justice , Vt qui in eadem causa sint , in eadem item essent fortuna , That they who were partakers in any cause , should be partakers also in the fortune which did follow on it . But I hope of more equality ( or impartiality rather ) from you , then I did from him : And therefore if your zeal transport you , to execute such a private judgment upon that Book , as it hath not suffered in the publique , because you like not the opinions therein contained , you may do well to let D. Barnard's Book consume in the same fire also , as having given the first occasion to these new disturbances , which are the grounds of your dislike . And so I leave you unto that Dilemma which I find in Ausoniu● , viz.

Vel neutrum stammis ure , velure duos . Decemb. 14. 1658.

Certamen Epistolare , Or The Letter Combate . PART . II. Containing the Intercourse of Letters between Peter Heylyn , D. D. And Mr. Hickman of Magd. Coll. Oxon. Relating To the Historicall part of a Book Intituled The Justification of the Fathers and Schoolmen , &c.

Vell. Puterc . Histi . Lib. 2. Ubi semel a recto deerratum est in preceps pervenitur , nec quisquam sibi turpe putat , quod aliis est Fructósum . Ide . ibid. Familiare est hominibus , omnia sibi remittere , nihil aliis ; Et invidiam non ad causam sed advoluntatem personasque dirigere .

LONDON , Printed in the Year , 1659.

To His much Respected Friend , Thomas Peirce , Master of Arts , and Rector of Bringhton in the Diocess of Peter-burrough . SIR ,

1. BEfore you had writ your Letter of the 8th of March , I had received another from an unknown hand , by which I was made acquainted that your Antagonist of Magdalen Coll. had published his Pamphlet a second time , and made bolder with me in the second then the first Edition . And having given me some account of the Book , ( which I could find no time of sufficient leisure to Enquire much after ) he makes this request , that I would undertake an answer to the Historical part thereof , in which he labours to Evince , that the Calvinistical opinions were the avowed doctrines of this Church . I had then some other work in hand , from which I was not willing to be taken off , by this diversion , and therefore desired him to excuse me from that ingagement , which he so zealously ( but very modestly withal ) recommended to me . It was not long before I had received the like Advertisement from a friend nere London , which I past over with as little Apprehension of the indignities and affronts which were done unto me , as I did the other . But yours of the Date above mentioned , following close upon them , I began to consider with my selfe , that there was somewhat more then ordinary in this invitation , in which so many men concurred of such different dwellings , without communicating their designs and thoughts unto one another . I found many Reasons in my selfe to decline the business ; my growing into years , my decay of Sight , my want of necessary helps , the disparity between the persons ; and that having Adversaries enough already , it would be a great imprudence in me to encrease their number , and make them swell into an Army . But on the other side , I considered also , the multiplicity of your Employments , the Charity which might be shown in easing you of some part of your burthen , the bitterness of the man against persons of Eminence , on whom he ought not to have looked without veneration ; but most especially , that as I had appeared in defence of the Church in my younger dayes , so it might ill become me to desert her now , being as yet in some Capacity of doing that service which you and others have so earnestly desired of me . Defendi Rem publ . Adolescens , non deseram senex , was Cicero's Resolution once , and shall now be mine . And because it was your Letter which prevailed upon me more then any other , I have made bold to render my account to you from whose hand most especially I received the charge . First laying down the narrative of such preparatory Entercourse as passed betwixt me and your Antagonist , before I setled positively on the undertaking ; and then descending to the satisfaction of so many good friends , as far as I am able to serve them , and the Church in performance of it . Give me your patience for a time , whilest I address my lines unto you in my own behalf , and I shall little doubt of it , when I write of him , who hath made one Enemy of both . Alterum a te p●to , ut me , pro me benigne ; Alterum ipse Efficiam , ut contra illum cum dicam attente audias , in the Orators words . But it is time to end my preamble , and begin my story , which is thus .

2. It was by accident that Mr. Baxters Book of the Grotian Religion was unexpectedly offered to me , with intimation that I should find somewhat in the preface , which concerned my selfe . By the like accident , and with the same intimation also I came to know of Mr. Hickmans late Book in Justification of the Fathers , and Schoolmen , &c. It is not to be wondred if my Curiosity , or desire of self satisfaction , first carried me to the consideration of my own concernments ( as before it did ) or that I should be much amazed to find my self so coursely handled by a person I never heard of , nor perhaps never might have done , but on that account . The Positivity of Sinne might be a Paradox or a truth , and so declared on either side without drawing me into the Quarrel , who have not hitherto engaged on the one side or the other . But Mr. Hickman that thinks so well of his own abilities , as to conceive no one man was to be looked upon as a competent Adversary , on whom to exercise his Pen , and therefore must raise up another who had not the least thoughts of contending with him . And that he might be sure to sharpen me to the Encounter he doth not onely touch upon me and so pass it over , as Mr. Baxter did before , but spends the best part of a leafe in loading me with Reproach and infamy . He had before given this unhandsome Character of you , whom he looks on as his principal Adversary ; that you are one that drinks up scorning like water , and knows not how to mention the worthiest man alive , if of a different judgment , without contempt ; which he concludes with this smart Expression , that rather then you will not fight , you would contend with your own shaddow . Which said , he calls me a Bird of the same feather , makes me to take my flight from the Angel in Ivy-lane , intitles it to no small wonder that a Doctor in Divinity should so unworthily handle a Reverend Person , ( it is the Lord Primate whom ▪ he means ) and finally declares , that a Book of mine had received the desert of its bitterness , in being burnt ( for so he saith he was informed ) by the hand of the Hangman . But let not these vinegar expressions be a trouble to you , which I assure you stirre not me , who have long learnt with him in the old Historian , civili animo laceratam existimationem ferre , to bear with an undisturbed mind , the greatest Calumnies which either the tongues or pens of malitious men can lay upon me .

3. For though this provocation might have been sufficient to have awakened one of a duller spirit , yet I resolved to sleep on still , and lookt no otherwise on this passage then as the inconsiderable Phantasme of an Idle Dream . I had before resolved not to put my hand to any controversie in which the Lord Primate was concerned , and so far satisfied Mr. Baxter in the not burning of the Book , that I conceived all further answer to that scandalous charge , to be altogether as unnecessary as the Charge was false . In satisfying him I should have sati●fied all others who had taken up the information or vulgar Hear-s●y , without inquiring into the falsity or malice of the first Report , if Mr. Hickman would have had the patience to have stayd so long .

4. But long I had not lain in this quiet slumber , when I was rouzed by your Letter of March 8. informing me of a second Edition of that Book ; in which I did not bear a part in the Prologue only , as in that before , nor was made one of the Actors only in the body Tragi-Comedy , but that the matter of the whole Epilogue was of my mistakings : All which I could have slept out also , if the same Letter had not directed me to page 23 , 24. where I should find a passage to this effect , viz. That Dr. Holland had turned Dr. Laud ( the most Renowned Arch-Bishop of Canterbury ) out of the Schools with disgrace , for but endeavouring to maintain , that Bishops differed in order , not only in Degree from inferiour Presbyters . A son of Craesus which was dumb from his very birth could find a tongue , when he perceived his Father in danger of death , whom no extremity of his own might possibly have forced on so great a Miracle : And therefore I conceive , that it will not be looked upon in me as a matter of Prodigie , that the Dishonour done to so great a Prelate , who in his time was one of the Fathers of this Church , and the chief amongst them , should put me to a Resolution of breaking those bonds of silence , which had before restrain'd me from advocating in my own behalfe . I was not willing howsoever to engage my self too rashly with an unknown Adversary , without endeavouring further to inform my self in his Grounds or Reasons . In which respect I thought it most agreeable to the ingenuity which I had shown to Mr. Baxter on the like occasions , to let him see how sensible I was of the injury done unto my self , and the indignity offered to the fame of so great a Person , before I would endeavour the righting of my self , or the vindicating of his honour , in a publique way . To which end I addrest unto him these ensuing Lines .

Dr: Heylyn's first Letter to Mr. Hickman : SIR ,

5. YOur Book of the Justification of the Father● , &c. was not long since put into my hands , with a direction to a passage in the Preface of it . It was not long before I consulted the place ; in which I found mention , that a Book of mine had received the desert of its bitterness , in being burnt by the hand of the publique Hangman . It seems you were so zealous in laying a Reproach upon me , that you cared not whether it were true or false : It was thought a sufficient warrant to you , that you were informed so , without any further enquiring after it : Which pains if you would please to take , you might have learned , that though such a thing was much endeavoured , yet it was not effected , i. e. that it went no further then noise and fame , which served to some instead of all other proofs . I was advertised yesterday by several Letters , that the Book is come to a second Edition , in which you have not only made bold with me ( which I can easily contemn ) but have laid a fouler Reproach on the Late Arch-Bishop of Canterbury , in being disgracefully turn'd out of the Schools by Dr. Holland . But Sir , however you may please to deal with such a poor fellow as I am , you ought to have carried a greater Reverence towards a Prelate of such eminent Parts , and Place , whose Memory is more precious amongst all that love the Church of England , then to suffer it to be so defamed , and by such a person . You pretend Information for the ground of your other errour , but for this I believe you would be troubled to produce your Authors . And if there be no more truth in the other parts of your Book , in which you deliver points of Doctrine , then you have shown in these two passages , in which you relate to matters of fact ; you had need pray to meet with none but ignorant Readers , such as are fit to be abus'd , and not with any knowing and intelligent man . Excuse me if my love to truth , and my tenderness to a name which I so much honour , have extorted from me these few lines , which are most heartily recommended to your consideration , as you are to the grace and blessings of Almighty God , by

Your very affectionate friend , and Christian Brother Peter Heylyn . Abingdon . March . 19. 1658.

6. By this time I had got the Book , which I caused to be read over to me , till I came to page 38. where I found my self as much concerned as before in the Preface , and the integrity of Dr. Burlow once Dean of Chester , and afterwards successively Bishop of Rochester , and Lincoln , to be more decryed , then Dr. Laud the late Arch-Bishops , was dishonoured in the former passage . This put me to a present stand , and I resolved to go no further till I had certified the Author of my second Grievance , which I did accordingly . I had waited somewhat more then a week since I had writ my other Letter , without receiving any answer . The shooting of a second Arrow after the first might possibly procure a return to both , and so it proved in the event . But take my second Letter first , and then we may expect his answer unto both together . Now the second Letter was as followeth .

Dr. Heylyn's second Letter to Mr. Hickman . SIR ,

7. SInce the writing of my former Letter , the last Edition of your Book hath been brought unto me . In which I find p. 23. that you ground your self upon the Testimony of some who are still alive , for Laud's being disgracefully turned out of the Dinity Schools by Dr. Holland . I find also p. 38. that Dr. Burlow did upon his death-bed with grief complain of the wrong he had done to Dr. Reynolds , and those who joyned with him in mis-reporting some of their Answers , and certain passages therein contained . And of the truth of this you say that you are able to give a satisfactory account to any person of ingenuity , who shall desire it . Sir , I am not ashamed of having so much of a Suffenus , as to entitle my self to some ingenuity , and therefore think it not amiss to claim your promise , and to desire a more satisfactory account in that particular then your bare , affirmation . This with your nomination of the parties , who are still alive , and able to testifie to the truth of the other , I desire you would please to let me have with the first conveniency . If no speedy opportunity doth present it self , you may send to me by the Preacher who comes hither on Sunday . I expected that my former Letter would have been gratified with an answer ; but if you send me none to this , I sha●l think you cannot And so commending you and your Studies ( so far forth as they shall co-operate to the peace of the Church ) to God's heavenly Blessing , I subscribe my self ,

Your very affectionate Friend , to serve you , Peter Heylyn . Abingdon , Mar. 28. 1659.

8. This Letter being sent after the other , it was no hard matter to divine of the answer to it , if any answer came at all . I might have learned by my address to M. Baxter , that there was nothing to be gained by such civilities , but one reproach upon another , men of that spirit being generally for quod scripsi scripsi ( as we know who was ) seldome accustomed to retract or qualify what they once had written : But as my own ingenuity invited me to write the first , so to the sending of the second , I was directed in a manner by the Justificator , pag. 15. where he complains , that you , M. Peirce , did not endeavour to purge the peccant humor by a private Letter , before you made the passionate adventure , of calling him obstinate : This made me not without some thoughts , that a private Letter might prevail upon such a person , who desired not to be accounted obstinate in his own opinions ; from which modesty I might collect a probable hope , that he would not persevere in any error when he was once convinced of it , but rather make amends to truth , and reparation to the parties which were injured by him : The least I could expect ( if he vouchsaft me any answer ) was to learn the name or names of those , by whom the yong man had been abused in the information , which might entitle me perhaps to some other adversary , whom I had more desire to deal with : But if no answer came at all , as perchance there might not , I should be able to conclude , that he had neither proof nor Author for either calumny ; which whether he had or not , will evidently appear by the following Letters ; which , though unlookt for , came at last , to make good the Proverb , and are here subjoyned verbatim , without alteration .

M. Hickman's Answer to D. Heylyn's first Letter . SIR ,

9. YOu are pleased to honour me with a Letter , and to subscribe your self , my very loving Friend , and Christian Brother ; I take it for a great favour , and shall be heartily glad , if my Answer may procure a good understanding betwixt us , and prevent any further trouble . Your charge is threefold . 1. That in the Preface to my first Edition , I say , That your Book had , as I was informed , received the desert of its bitterness , being burnt by the hand of the common hang-man . I deny not the words , nor can I see any reason to be ashamed of them : For 1. There is an Ordinance of the Lords and Commons still in force , commanding that all Books of the complexion yours is of , should be seized , and publiquely burnt . 2. It was commonly noised , that your Book against the Arch-Bishop of Armagh was actually burned . 3. I proceeded not barely upon common report , but had my intelligence from one of no mean employment , who hath his constant residence at White Hall ; and I am pretty confident your Book had been de facto so disgraced , if the sickness and death of the late Protector , had not put the Privy counsel upon minding matters of higher concernment . And will you now say that I was so zealous in fastening a reproach upon you , that I cared not whether it were true or false . You have in your own Books printed many matters of fact , with more confidence , for which you cannot pretend so much ground . 2. You charge me that I have made bold with you in my second Edition , Novum crimen & ante haec tempora inauditum : You had in your Examen Historicum bestowed some ugly words upon a Colledge , never to mentioned without honour and I , by a true relating the whole business , against which you so much exclaim , labour to vindicate the credit of the Society , and for this I must be accounted bold : Who can help it ? 3. You charge me for laying a fouler reproach on the late Arch-Bishop of Canterbury , because I intimate , that he was disgracefully turned out of the Divinity Schooles by Dr. Holland ; and for this you say , I would be troubled to produce my Author : It may be you and I are not agreed what it is to be disgracefully turned out of the Schools ; but if this be it , to be publiquely checkt for a seditious person , who would unchurch the Protestant Churches beyond the Sea , and sow division betwixt us and them , by a novel Popish Position : You cannot sure think , that it will be any trouble to me to produce my Author : For you censure , and therefore I presume have read M. Prinne's Breviate , in which all this is extant totidem verbis ; That Author having laid such a charge , and none of the Arch-Bishops friends having all this while pleaded not guilty , I might take it pro Confesso : yet I must tell you , M. Prinne's is not the onely Ground on which I proceed , though what my other Grounds be I shall not declare , till I well understand what use you intend to make of my Letters .

And now , Sir , I hope that lamentable jeer of my standing in need to pray for Ignorant Readers , and such as are fit to be abused might have been spared , ( & been bestowed upon some Temporizer , whose design it is to ingratiate himselfe with great ones , who can complement a Prince so Highly , as to style himselfe his Creature , and the workmanship of his hands ; For my own part , Favour , and Riches , I neither want nor seek : I have so much of a man in me , to be very subject to Errors , but I hope I have not so little of a Christian in me , as not to be very willing to recall any Error , which by any learned man shall be discovered to me . The Design of the Historical part of my Book , is to prove that till Bishop Laud sat in the Saddle , our Divines of prime Note , and Authority , did in the Five points deliver themselves consonantly to the determinations of the Synod of Dort ; and that they were enjoyn'd Recantation , who were known either to Broach or Print that which now is called Arminianism : Can any one deny this ? In my Doctrinal part , I assert that malum morale quà tale non est Ens positivum . In which I promise my self , that I shall not have you ( who profess to take your Opinions from the Fathers ) an Adversary . I deny not whose name you so much honour , hath in many things deserved well of the University , but that his name should be so precious as you intimate to all who love the Church of England , I am not yet convinced ▪ Me thinks the Character Isidor . Pelus ▪ gives of Eusebius , lib. 2. Epist. 246. doth too well suit him . That whole Epistle is most heartily recommended to your Reading , and so are you to the Grace of Jesus Christ by

Your most humble Servant , Henry Hickman . Mr. Hickmans Answer to Dr. Heylyns second Letter . SIR ,

10. THis Letter was drawn up the last week , and had been sent but that I was necessitated to be absent from the University for two or three days : I have now received a second Letter , wherein you desire ( by virtue of a promise made in my second Edition ) to know what Grounds I had had to affirm , that Dr. Burlow , did declare his trouble for some wrong done to Dr. Reynolds , &c. in relating the Hampton-Court Controversie . Sir , I will not censure you to have no Ingenuity ; but yet you must pardon me if I refuse to give you any further account of the matter till I understand , first , whether you will deal as plainly with me about some things contained in your own Examen Historicum . Will you send me word what the names of those men are , who said two of your Sermons about the Tares had done more mischief to the Papists , then all the Sermons that ever Dr. Prideaux preached against them , and what the name of that man is , who did by Bishop Williams his appointment , give a pension out of his place for the maintenance of a Scholar . 2. I would gladly know whether you intend what I write , onely for your own private satisfaction , and not for publick view . 3. I would willingly be informed what you would take for satisfaction , whether it will suffice if I prove the business from the mouth of one , who was a lover of the English Prelacy , Liturgy , and Ceremony . When you have satisfied me , you may suddenly expect an answer from him , who again subscribes himself

Your humble Servant , Henry Hickman . Magd. Coll. Ap. 1. 1659.

11. These Answers leaving me as unsatisfied as before I was , I found that I had lost both my hopes , and labour , for the declining of a business which I was not willing to appear in , if any satisfaction had been given me otherwise ▪ And therefore since he was not pleased to declare himselfe so freely to me in a private way , as to beget between us such a right understanding , as might prevent all further trouble ( which his first Letter seemed to wish ) I see not how I can avoid the making of a more publick business of it then I first intended , unless I should betray my self unto scorn , and censure : My Letters being in his hands cannot be recalled , and if I should not now proceed , to give the world that satisfaction which I lookt for from him , in the retracting of his Calumnies , and salfe Reports ; he and his friends might think I could not . In the pursuit whereof I purposed , to have gone no further , then the vindicating of my self , and those whose names are dear unto me , from the obstinacy of his Reproaches . But he hath hinted me , I thank him , to another Argument , relating to the Historicall part of his discourse ; of which perhaps I may render you an account also before we part . Beginning at the lowest step I shall ascend at last by leisure , to the top of the Stairs ; that having answered for my self , I may be credited the more when I speak for others .

The Answer of P. Heylyn D. D. to Mr. Hickman's Letters of April 1. Relating to some Passages in a Book called , The Justification of the Fathers , &c.

11. IT was good Councel which Demaratus of Corinth gave to Philip of Macedon , when he advised him to settle all things well at home , before he intermedled in the differences , amongst the Grecians . In correspondence whereunto I shall first do my best Endeavour , to acquit my self from those Reproaches , which the Justificator with a Prodigal hand hath bestowed upon me ; and thereby fit my self the better for advocating in behalf of those eminent persons , of whose Renown I am more solicitous then my one Concernments . Beginning therefore with my self , in the first place I must take notice of his practise to make me clash with the Lord Primate , whose Rest I desire not to disturbe upon any occasion . He should have first reconciled those two passages which I proposed to D. Barnard . p. 103. 104. of Respondit Petrus , before he had made it such a wonder that a Doctor of Divinity should so unworthily handle a Reverend person , and fasten upon him a dissent from the Church of England , in a mater wherein he doth so perfectly agree with her . If so , if he agree so perfectly with the Church of England , how comes he to differ from himselfe , and speak such contradictions as D. Barnard , nor no other of his great Admirers can find a way to reconcile to the sence of the Church ? Or if they can , or that they think those contradictions , not considerable for making his Agreement the lesse perfect with the Church , of England , you have gained the point which you contended for , in your dispute which M. Bu●le , and D. Barnard laboured to deprive you of in his Book of the Lord Primates Judgment , intended against none by name , but your selfe and me , though others be as much concerned in the General Interess .

12. Much good may the Concession do you . What comes after next ? the burning of the Book by the common Hangman . I thought that Ignis fatuus had had been quencht sufficiently by the assurance , which I gave him to the contrary in my Letter of the 19th of March . But his desire to have it so is so prevalent with him ▪ that he neither doth deny the words , nor can find any Reason to be ashamed of them , be they never so false . And what Ground can we find for so great a confidence ? 1. He appeals unto an Ordinance made in the year 1646. Which Ordinance he pretends to be still in force ▪ but whether it be so or not , is a harder Question then a greater Lawyer can determine . That Ordinance making ●o Report ▪ he flyes next to a common noise , which Rings still in his Ears , and must gain credit , either as a noise or common , or as both together ; though for the most part , the louder the noise is , and the more common it grows , the less credit to be given unto it . You know well what the two great Poets say of Fame ,

— Fama malum velox — quae veris addere falsa , Gaudet , & Eminimo sua per mendacia crescit .

But yet not seeming to lay much strength upon common Fame ( though it be one of his best Authors in some other cases ) he pretends unto a special Revelation from the Privy Council , and grows so confident upon the strength of the intelligence , that he holds at White-Hall ( which all great States-men must pretend to ) that he is sure the Book de Facto had been so disgraced ( though whether disgraced by being so burnt is another question ) if the sickness and death of the late Protector , had not put the Privy Council upon minding maters of higher concernment . The contrary whereof my Postscript unto M. Baxter hath most clearly Evidenced .

13. The second charge wherein I stand single by my self , is onely toucht at in the Letter , where I am said to have bestowed some ugly words upon a Colledge not to be mentioned without honour ; insisted on more largely in the fag end of the Book without the least coherence or relation to it . And there this man of brass makes me worse then a Tinker ( a rude Expression , which declares him to be better studied in his Metaphisicks , then his Moral Philosophy ) in committing more and fouler Errors then those I find in Mr. Fuller . Not universally I hope , but in that particular passage touching Magdalen Colledge ; but whether so or not , we shall see anon ; first taking notice of the Proverb , Concerning Birds which defile their own nests , as he thinks I do . But ( be it spoken in good time ) there is an observation or tradition amongst Country people , that the Cuckow layeth her Eggs in the Hedge . Sparrows nest , where they are hatched and cherished till they grow so strong , as to drive the poor Sparrows out of their nest , and keep it wholly to themselves . Now , Sir , if any of the old Sparrows , should discover the Rapacity of these young Cuckowes ▪ & signifie the same to the rest of the Birds ; could they be properly accused for defiling their own nest in so doing ? I believe they could not , and I conceive all understanding men will believe so to . In this particular I stand condemned , but not convicted , for being injurious to the Reformation , and to Magdalen Colledge , for disquieting the Ashes of a Reverend and most pious professor , by telling the world so long after his death , that he had the infelicity of being joyned to an unthrifty wife ; and finally for uttering as much uncharitableness and partiality as could well be contained in so few lines .

14. But first where is it to be found , that I impute this act of Rapine to the Reformation . The Reformation may be good , and the Alteration to the better for any thing that can be found in that Animadversion , though some that had the benefit of it intended more their private gaine then the publick honour If any were injurious to the Reformation , it must be they that took the purse , and not the officers who follow the Hue and Cry , to bring back the money . I confess Magdalen Colledge is a name by me never to be mentioned without honour , and I should be more ashamed of my self then the Justificator , had I bestowed any ugly words ▪ upon that foundation . But the Cuckowes do not make the nest , nor can some Vsu-Fructaries , though they pretend a jus in re , ( as you know who saith ) affirme themselves to be the Colledge . As little injury then is done to the name and memory of that Pious Professor , D. Humphries , of whose unthrifty wife , it is he that tells the world , not I. He distinguisheth frequently in his Book , betwixt a Negation and a Privation , betwixt Positivum , and Privativum ; and therefore cannot chuse but know that there is a difference , betwixt my Character , and his . The Gentlewoman might be no provident Housewife , which is all I say , and yet not be unthrifty neither , as the Phrase is varied , which of the two hath more disquieted the husband , or been more injurious to the wife , may be easily judged without putting the difference to a tryal in the Court of Honour . And for uncharitableness and partiality , I would fain know , in what respect I can be charged with either of them ▪ unless it be , in speaking more favourably of the Fact , then it hath deserved ; and passing by in silence the offence it gave to the Right Learned Selden , which as is said ( but I am sure not said by me ) did hinder him from bestowing his Library on the Vniversitie .

15. Let us next see whether the Brasier or the Tinker , make the foulest work . The Tinker charges it no farther then to be a Tradition , that some considerable summe of Mony had been left by the Founder , for the ends there mentioned . The Brasier hath produced a Statute for it , to which all those of that Society ought to take their Oath , and consequently in excusing them of Rapine , he condemns them of perjury . The Tinker takes no notice of any but the Fellows who had the division of the spoil , of no more then thirty double Pistolets to every Fellow ; and of no greater Exchange for every Pistolet then 16 s. 6 d. In which particulars he had as good intelligence as some Friends whom he imploy'd in the Enquiry , could return unto him . The Brasier acknowledges , that every Pistolet was exchanged for 18 s. 6 d. at the least , some of them for 19 s. and some for 20 s. that every fellow had 33 peeces for his single share , and that the booty was so Rich , that even the under graduate Choristers had their part therein ; Which as it makes the crime the greater , and the more diffusive , so is the guilt thereof increased by the Distribution . The Tinker saith as he was inform'd , that the Old Doctor had no fewer then 100 peeces for his part of the spoil , of which the Brasier doth assure us , that little justice , if not great injustice hath been done her in it . How so ? because saith he , That he first denyed his consent . For taking the Gold out of the Tower . Secondly , Because the Doctor , said once at a publick meeting ▪ That all mony must be restored . And 3. because he continued in the same minde , when he lay on his death bed . All which might be , or might not be , 't is no matter which ; and yet he might have no fewer then 100 of those peeces for his part of the spoil ; which with so little justice or great injustice is imputed to him . If any General Restitution hath been made of the Money , it was well done of them that did it , of which as I never heard before , ( D. Cross excepted ) so I am glad to hear it now ; though if the summe should be made up it will not be preserved with such care and conscience , as in former times . The secret being once discovered , will be a strong temptation to some itching fingers , when any colour of necessity may disguise the sacriledge . If this be all he hath to say , in the defen●e of the society , for which he fears to have provok'd me to become his adversary , I shall absolutely free him from that fear , as I shall do a common Lawyer that speaks for his Client , with better title to his Fee , then this Advocate can pretend unto for the present service , for Causa Patrocinio , and the rest that follows , proves plainly , that a broken cause is made much worse by often and unskilful handling .

16. But for all that the Brasier is the better trade he makes all things new , a fine New Nothing touching the Miraculous discovery of this Golden Mine , not to be parralell'd by Purchas his Pilgrims . Joskpha Costa his Navigations , or Hackluit's Voyages . Necessitated by a vast debt of 1600 l. contracted by the old Sparrows with the Great Rush of Madagascer , of which huge bird Mr. Buvechus telleth us out of Paulus Venetus lib. 7. cap. 2. Which if it were false , why was it told to the Demites ; if true , why told to no body else . This vast debt payd , and 500 ▪ . layd up in the common Treasury , and that too in so ●hort a space , that the Fellows and Scholars must be ●hought to live in the mean time upon air , or hope , ●r somewhat of as thin a nature , an arrear of 700 ▪ . being also lost , like King Johns Bag and Bagga●● , ●n the Fenns of Lincolnshire . The mistaking of a ●iberal summe in old French Pistolets , unknown to ●ny of the society for a mutuum annually borrowed , ●nd repaid in good English Silver , the apprehensi●n of their danger , left the Souldiers garrisoned in ●he Town , and looking on themselves as Lords of the soil should lay some claim unto the money as Treasure trou-ve though it were only lockt up in a chest , not under the ground . But the strange manner how they found it goes beyond all this , Porcede luck on 't . Hilkiah the High-Priest by searching into the treasures of the Temple , found the book of the Law ; but these good Fellows looking after a book of the Law , must find the treasures of the Temple . What pitty was it , that such a heap of dainty Gold should be spoiled with rust , whilst so many Purses languisht under a vacuity , then which there could be nothing more abhorrent from the Rules of Philosophy . I had before read over the Legenda Aurea , and some part of the Legenda Lignea also . But row behold , Tertia post illam succ●ss●● Ahenea . See here a brazen legend to be added to the other two , but more worth then both .

17. But your Adversary will not leave me yet ; he hath two questions to propose . 1. Whether he that takes money for the Resignation of a fellowship be bound to restore . And 2. Whether he that is married , and carrieth it so clancularly , that the house can make no just proof of it , be not bound to restore all the benefits that he received from his place , after his halfe year is expired . And here I might take leave to follow your Adversaries way of Disputation , in answering one Question with another , and standing for some satisfaction to two Queries of mind before I return any to his . And my two Queries shall be these . 1. Whether the taking away of the Almes-Basket and the suppressing of so many Gaudies , and Pie-Gaudies , to the destruction of the hospitality and charity of the noble f●undation , do not tend more unto the profit of the present Fellows then to the credit of the Society ? 2. By what Rule of Equity they can dep●ive the Demies and Choristers ( whose dinners were too small before ) of that unlimited allowance of bread and beer which of old they had , reducing them at first to an allowance of 2s s 6d by the week , and afterwards retrenching that to two shillings only . I might defer the satisfying of his Questions till he answer these ; but I shall deal more freely with him , and content him presently . First then for answer to the last . Mime adsum qui feci . This reflects on me , who held my Fellowship above a twelve month more then his allowance . But first it was no clandestine or clancular marriage , but carried openly enough ▪ The Colledge Chappel was set out by my appointment with it's richest Ornaments , the Marriage was performed on St. Symons and Judes day , between 10 and 11 of the clock in the morning , and in the presence of a sufficient number of Witnesses of both Sexes , according both to Law and Practise . The wedding dinner kept in my own Chamber , some Doctors and their wives , and five or six of the Society invited to it . My wife placed at the head of the Table , and by me publickly desired to make much of the company ▪ the Town Musick playing , and my self waiting at the Table the most part of the Dinner , no old formality wanting to my best remembrance which was accustomably required ( even to the very giving of Gloves ) at a solemn wedding . No clancular carriage in all this , no deceit put upon the Colledge , and therefore no necessity of a Restitution ; the Colledge saving my dyet , and the Fellows getting my Minor Dividents for the greatest part of the time till I left the house . And for the other , admitting I should determine in the Affirmative , what would the Colledge get by that ; For granting that he who takes money for a Resignation , be bound to restore it ; yet must it be restored unto the parties , and to their Relations , of whom he received it , and not to the Society or corporation of whom he received it not . And therefore granting , that those who have taken money for a Resignation should be bound to restore it , the Colledge Chest would prove so far from being fuller then the Founder left it , that it would still remain as empty as these Confounders made it . If he hath any more questions to propound unto me he shall not take me unprovided of as ready Answers .

18. In the mean time I must desire you to take notice how Eagle-ey'd he is in his own concernments , and how blind in others . He tells you p. 14. that if you had been a Resident at the Vniversity , Mr. Vice-Chan . had been bound upon his complaint to have punished you with banition , or at least with incarceration or publique Recantation , for bestowing some smart speeches and expressions on him : and therefore I may tell him , on far better Reasons , that if I were a resident in Magdalen Colledge ▪ the President had been bound to put him out of Commons , upon the Local Statute of Verba Brigosa ; or the Vice Chancelour obliged to inflict the same punishments on him which he finds for you , or the next Justice to have bound him to his Good Behaviour , for offending contra bonos mores , in using to a Doctour of Divinity such reproachful words as he doth in the Preface , and giving him the odious name of Tinker in the end of his Pamphlet . But I leave him to Gods mercy , and your Castigation , saying no more of him at this present time , then Bishop Jewel did of Cartwright , when he first took up arms against the Church , viz Stultit●a est in corde p●eri , sed virga disciplinae fugabit eam .

19. In the next charge I cannot seperate my own interest from that of the right Reverend Father in God , D. William Burlow , once Lord Bishop of Lincoln ; though there be somewhat in it which concerns my self , and some which relates only to that Reverend Prelate . In reference to my self alone , he tells me in his second Letter , That though he will not censure me to have no ingenuity , yet I must pardon him if he refuse to give me any account of that particular , which I conceived by vertue of a promise he was bound to give me : Where you may see , that though he will not censure me to have no ingenuity , yet he doth not grant me to have any ; which whether it be a negative or a privative condemnation , I leave to be disputed at the next encounter in the School of Complement . And secondly , you may see what shifts he hath to avoid the satisfying of the debt , which he cannot pay , but by putting such Conditions on me as are not to be found in the Obligation : I am charged also in the Book , for lashing the Church Historians for any expression that is in the least favorable to the poor Puritans ( as he calls them ) of which let him that feels the smart seek out for remedies . That which concerns me in relation to Bishop Burlow , is my acquitting him from shewing any partiality , in summing up the conference at Hampton Court ; a matter never charged upon him by the Puritan faction , more then twenty years after his death , and more then thirty years after the publishing of that Book ; which as the Church Historian saith , to have been complained of , so doth he only say , not prove it ; and affirmations or complaints are no legal evidences , where there are any reasons of strength to evince the contrary ; but what he wants shall be supplied by the Antagonist ; who fearing to be prevented in it , puts the best legg forwards , crying out with more hast then good speed , That he will Answer the Doctor : Admit him to his Answer , and he will tell us , That the times were evil , that the prudent did think themselves obliged to be silent , and that God did so order the matter , that they lost no credit by a quiet committing their cause to him . How so ? Because ( saith he ) D. Burlow lying on his death bed ▪ did with grief complain of the wrong which he had done to D. Reynolds , and others that joyned with him in that conference . If this be prooved , we will admit of all the rest ; but if this be not proved , all the rest is nothing : And for the proof of this he is able ( as he saith ) to give a satisfactory account to any person of ingenuity , who desires it of him : I would have took him at his word , desiring earnestly to be satisfied in the truth thereof , presuming that I might lay claim to so much ingenuity , as would entitle me to a capacity of obtaining that favour ▪

20. But in this point I reckoned without my host ; for though I pressed my desire so far , as to conclude that if he did not gratifie me with an Answer , I should think he could not ; yet I am stil as far from satisfaction as at first I was : I must first gratifie him , in answering such demands as he puts unto me , impertinent to the cause in hand , and such as the nature of the point in issue cannot bind me too , by any Rule of Disputation in the Schools of Logick , or else the evidence desired must not be produced . I gave some reason why I was not willing to name the parties who received or paid the pension , given by Bishop Williams ▪ towards the maintenance of a Scholer ; two of the parties to my knowledg , and the third for any thing I know to the contrary , being still alive otherwise I could not only name the men , but produce the acquittance . And for the words relating to Bishop Prideaux , they were spoke at a great Table in the Court in the hearing of many ; and being spoken in the Court , must refer only to such Sermons as were preached at the Court , and not to all which had been preached elswhete , by that learned Bishop : The Sermons will be shortly published , if not done already , and will be able to speak as much for themselves , as can be desi●ed of me to do . The witness in the cause touching Bishop Burlow , may appear securely , without drawing danger to himself , and will be heard , no Question , both with love and freedom : For if he be a lover of the English Prelacy , Liturgie , and Ceremonies , who is to attest unto this truth , I know of none who can refuse to give credit to it ; but if he take up the report at the second hand ▪ from one who told him that he took it from the Doctors mouth , and not from the man himself that spake it , his witness may be lyable to just exception , and then we are but as we were , without proof at all . He vaunts it somewhere in his Book , That he is furnished with a cloud of Witnesses , to justifie his cause against you ; but in this point , and the next that follows , his Witnesses are all in a cloud ( shadowed as Aeneas and his followers were from the sight of Dido ) so that no mortal eye can see them . Et idem est non esse et non apparere , was the Rule of old .

21. Upon no better grounds then this , he lays a fouler reproach on the late most Reverend and still Arch-Bishop of Canterbury , as being turned out of the Divinity Schools with disgrace by D. Holland , in publicis , commitiis , for but endaevouring to maintain ▪ That Bishops differed in order , and not in degree only , from inferiour Presbiters . I reproved him for this in my first Letter , and told him how much he would be troubled to produce his Author ; he shifted it off , by saying that he means no otherwise by being turned out of the Schooles with disgrace , then that he was publiquely checkt by the said D. Holland , for maintaining the said opinion ; and having M. Prinnes Breviate for the truth of this , he thinks it a sufficient proof ▪ also to confirm the other : but is it possible that any man , who pretends but to a grain of ingenuity or learning , should dare to lay so base a calumnie on so great a person , and hope to salve the matter by such a ridiculous explication , as may justly render him contemptible to the silliest School-boy : Assuredly if he received a publique check , be that same with being disgracefully turned out of the Schools , there must be more turned out of the Schools with as much disgrace , because as much reprehended and checkt as he , of whom the foulest mouth could never raise so leud a slander . The Doctor of the Chair in the Divinity Schools at Oxon , would be more absolute in his decisions and determinations , were this once allowed of , then all the Popes that ever sate in Peter's Chair , since they first laid claim to it .

22. But he goes on , and adds that this disgrace was put upon him , for maintaining such a novel Popish Position , as that before . Not Novel I am sure : for the ancient Writers call the solemn form of consecrating a Bishop by no other name then that of Ordinatio Episcopi ; and if the Bishop at his Consecration doth receive no Order , his consecration ought not to be styled an Ordination . And if it be not Novel , then it is not Popish , ( for id verum quod primum , as they Father it ) unlesse he will be pleased to make Popery Primitive , and intitle it to the Eldest times of Christianity . But Popish if it needs must be , then must the Form of Consecration of Arch-Bishops , Bishops , &c. be accounted Popish , for which it stands acquitted by the Book of Articles , and the two Parliaments of K. Edw. 6. Queen Eliz. must be Popish also , by which that Form of Consecration was confirmed and Ratified . Twice in the Preface to the Book , we find mention of three Orders , of Ministers in the Church of Christ , Bishops , Priests , and Deacons , and this distinction made as antient as the very times of the Apostles . And in the Book it selfe , besides the three distinct forms of Ordination ; the one for Bishops , the other for Priests , and the third for Deacons , in one of the Prayers used at the Consecrating of a Bishop , it is distinctly called an Order ; all which he could not chuse but see in that very Chapter of the Book called , Respondit Petrus , in which he finds me questioning the Lord Primates Iudgement , touching the universality of Redemption by the death of Christ . The Books confirmed by Act of Parliament in the 5th . and 6th . of Edw. 6. Repealed in the first yeare of Queen Mary , continuing notwithstanding in use and practise for the first seven years of Queen Elizabeth , and reconfirmed by Parliament the next year after , upon occasion of a difference , between Bon●er the late bloody Bishop of London , and Horn then Bishop of Winchester . His Grace had therefore very good Reason not to change his judgement , and to press very hard on Bishop Hall not to wave that point ( for which he stands censured by our Adversary , p. 24. ) and to insist upon it more then at other times when the Scotish Presbyterians had began to revive the question , for which he stands condemned also . p 25.

23. But see the Candor of the man , and how like he seems to Aesops Dog when he lay in the Manger ; not giving the Arch-Bishop a good word himselfe , nor suffering any other to do it without snarling at him . I had signified in my first Letter , that the Arch-Bishops memory was too precious , amongst all that loved the Church of England , to suffer him to be so defamed , and by such a person . Your Adversary doth not deny , because he cannot , that in many things he had deserved well of the Vniversity , but will not yield himself convinced , that his memory should be so precious , ( as my Letter intimates ) to all that love the Church of England . And a squint eye he casts on some body for a Temporizer , whose design it was to ingratiate himself with great ones , and could complement a Prince so highly , as to style himself his Creature , and the workmanship of his hands . But who it is whom he so decyphereth , or whether he means any one man or not , but onely casts abroad his censures ( as Boyes throw their stones ) without any proper aim ▪ or object but the love of the sport ; I am not able to find out , in my best remembrance . Passing by therefore such Aenigma's as I cannot unriddle , I must needs take notice , how he applyes the Character to him , of which Isidore Pelusi . gives unto one Eusebus a wretched fellow of those times , and one who took upon himself the name and office of a Bishop ; The Character to be found in the 24. Epistle , of his second Book ; and the Epistle recommended to my diligent Reading .

23. He tells me that the Character contained therein ▪ doth two well suit with the Arch-Bishop ; but I find it otherwise . Eusebius ( as the Author tells us ) would not know the difference between the Temple and the Church , between the place of the Assembly , and the Congregation ; sparing no cost to build , repair , and beautifie the one ; but vexing , disquieting and expelling the righteous soul , to many of which , he had given great matter of offence or scandal , dum multis offendiculis causam prebet , probos viros expellere , &c. The same he florisheth over again in the following words , concluding with this Observation , That in the Primitive times when there were no Temples , the Church was plentifully adorned with all heavenly Graces ; but that in his time the Temples were adorned beyond Moderation ; Ecclesia vero , Canviciis & Cavillis in cessitur , but the poor Church reproached and reviled upon all occasions , such is the Character which Isidore gives to this Eusebus . But that this Character should suit too well with the late Arch-Bishop , is a greater scandal then ever Eusebus gave to the weak brethren of the Church of Pelusium . For will your Adversary confine the Church ( as some wild Affricans did of old ) intra partem Donati , within the Conventicles and Clancular meetings of the Puritan Faction ? Or hath he confidence to averre , that any Righteous and Religious person was expelled this Church ( understand me of the Church of England ) whom either Faction or Sedition , in conformity or disobedience , spiritual pride , or fear of punishment did not hurry out of it . H. B. for Gek. p. 127. Just so it was Railed out by Brother Burton , in his Libel falsly called a Sermon , where he affirms that the edge of Dscipiline was turned mainly against Gods people and ministers , even for their virtue , piety and worth ; and because they would not conform to their ( the Bishops ) impious Orders . Just so it was once preached in a Latine Sermon at St. Maryes in Oxon , by Bayley one of the old brood of Puritans in Magdalen Colledge , that good and Godly men were purposely excluded from preferments there , ob hoc ipsum , quod pii , quod boni , onely because they were enclined to virtue and piety . With spight and callumnie enough , but not to be compared with his who so reproachfully hath handled this Renowned Prelate , and the poor sequestred , and ejected Clergy of the Church of England . But Judas did the like before to his Lord and Master . And thereupon St. Cyprian very well inferres , nec nobis turpe esse pati ▪ quae passus est Christus , nec illis gloriam facere , quae f●cerat Judas .

24. And here I would have ended with your puissant Adversary , but that his Letter carries me to a new ingagement . He tells me there , that in the Historical part of his discourse he hath proved , that till D. Laud sat in the Saddle , our Divines of prime Note and Authority did , in the five points , deliver themselves consonantly to the determination of the Synod of Dort , and that they were enjoyned Recantation , who were known either to preach or print that which is now called Arminianism , and thinks that no body can deny it for a truth infallible . But first if we allow this for a good and sufficient Argument , it will serve as strongly for the Papists against all those who laboured in the Reformation . For what one point do we maintain against those of Rome in which the Divines of prime Note and Authority in the Church of Rome did not deliver themselves as consonantly to the preceding Doctrines of the Schoolmen there , and to the subsequent determinations of the Council of Trent ; and for opposing which manner of Persons , were constrained to a Recantation , who either preacht or printed in defence of that which is now called Protestantism . And 2dly , if we behold the constitution of our University , when D. Humphrys a moderate non-conformist ( but a non-conformist howsoever ) as M. Fuller is pleased to call him , possest the Divinity Chaire , for almost forty years ; and D. Reynolds , a Rigid non-Conformist , publiquely read a Divinity Lecture , founded by Sir Francis Walsingham ( the principal Patron of the Sect ) as you will find in the beginning of his Lectures on the Books Apocriphal ; it is no marvail if we find that the Doctrine and Discipline of Calvin , should be so generally received by the Students there ; or being so generally received , that they should put all manner of disgraces upon all or any of those that opined the contrary . The like may be affirmed of Cambridge , when D ▪ Whittakers sat in the Divinity Chair , and M. Perkins great in the esteem of the Puritan Faction , had published his Book , Intituled , The Golden Chain ; which Book containing in it the whole Doctrin of the Supra-Lapsarians , was quarrelled first by Arminius in the Belgicks Churches , and sharply censured afterwards by D. Robert Abbot in his Book against Tompson . By these two first , and after on the coming down of the Lambeth Articles ( of which more anon ) as hard a hand was kept upon all those who embrace not the Calvinian Rigors , as was done at Oxon : the Spirit of that Sect being uncapable of opposition , in the least degree . Under which two Generall Answers , but the last especially , we may reduce all Arguments which are drawn from the severe proceedings of those Professors , and their adherents against all such as held any contrary opinion to them ; that is to say against Bishop Laud , by Doctor Holland , and D. Abbot ; by the last against D. Houson also , and by D. Prideaux against Mr Bridges ; and in the other university by D. Whittakers against M. Barret , by the whole faction there against Peter Barrow ; and finally , by the two Professors then being against M. Simpson . And yet those times were not without some Eminent men , ( and men of prime Note and Authority , as he calls their opposites ) which bear witnesse to the genuine Doctrines of the Church of England now miscalled Arminianism ; who never were subjected to the ignominy of a Recantation . Amongst which I may Reckon , D. Hursnet for one , Master of Pembrook Hall in Cambridge , afterwards successively Bishop of Chichester , Norwich , and Arch Bishop of York . Whose Sermon a● St. Pauls Cross , the 27 of Octob. 1584. sufficiently declares his judgment in those points of Controversie . And I may Reckon D. Buckridge for another President of S. Johns Colledge , &c. and Tutor unto Bishop Laud at his first coming to Oxon ; who carring these opinions with him to the See of Rochester , maintained them in a publick conference at York house , against D. Morton Bishop of Lichfield , and D. Preston Master of Emanuel Colledge in Cambridge , Anno 1626.

25. I have already written , a full discourse shewing upon what Principles and Positions , the Church of England did proceed at her first Reformation . But this being designed as an Ingredient to a larger work now almost finished , I must not wrong that work so far , as to make use of it at the present , and therefore you must needs have patience till a further time . In the mean season I shall endeavour an answer to all those Arguments , which your Adversarie hath made use of to evince the point he chiefly aims at ; leaving the positivity of Sin to your abler hand . Where by the way give me leave to tell you , that one who seems to wish me well , though known no further to me then by the first Letters of his name , signified in his Letter to me of the 3d. of March , that Mr. Hickman was not the Author , but the Compiler of the Book , which is now before us , having all the Assistance ( as he was credibly informed ) which the University could afford him . But in this I cannot be of his opinion , far less assistance being needful to this petty performance , then the united Councels of an university : Though my Eyes be very bad , and unuseful to me in this way , yet I am able to trace the steps of this young Serpent in all the Cliffs and precipices of the Rock upon which he glideth ; not onely as to follow him in his Proofs and arguments , but many of his Phrase● and florishes also . I could direct you to the Authors from which he borroweth his faining , and his failing in the Advertisement at the End of his Book ; his charging you with tumbling in your Tropes , and rowling in your Rhetorick , p. 4 his dealing with you as Alexander did with his Horse Bucephalus , taking him by the Bridle , and leading him gently into the Sun , that other men may see how lustily you lay about you , though your selfe do not ▪ p. 7. I could direct you also to the very pages in M. Prinns book of Anti-Arminianism , and that called Canterburies Doom ▪ out of which ( without acknowledging his Benefactor ) he takes all his Arguments , Except that of Gabriel Bridges in Oxon , and M. S●mpson in Cambridg , & perhaps these also . But being they are made his own , ( as some unhappy Boys mak● knives when they do but steal them ) I will Answer them one by one in Order as they come before me .

26. In the first Entrance to his proofs he begins with Wicklife , concluding , that because the Papists have charged it on him , that he brought in fatal necessity , and made God the Author of sinne , therefore it may be made a p●obable Gu●ss , that there was no disagreement between him and Calvin . The Course of which Argument stands thus , that there being an agreement , to these points betwixt Wickliffe and Calvin , and the Reformers of our Church , embracing the Doctrins of Wickliff , therfore they must embrace the Doctrine of Calvin also . But first it cannot be made good that our Reformers embrace the Doctrine of Wickliffe , or had any Eye upon that Man ; who though he held many points against those of Rome , yet had his field more tares then wheat , his Books more Heterodoxies then sound Catholick Doctrines . And secondly admitting this Argument to be of any force in that present case , it will as warrantably serve for all the Sects and Heresies which now swarm amongst us , as for that of Calvin , Wickliffe affording them the Grounds of their several dotages , though possibly they are not so well studied in their own concernments . For they who have consulted the works of Thomas Walde●sis , or the Historia Wiclesiana , writ by Harpfield , will tell us that Wickliffe amongst many other Errors maintained these that follow . 1. That the Sacrament of the Altar is nothing else but a piece of Bread . 2. That Priests have no more Authority to Minister Sacraments then Lay men have . 3. That all things ought to be common , 4. That it is as lawful to Christena child in a Tub of water at home , or in a ditch by the way as in a Fontstone in the Church . 5. That it is as lawful a● all times to confess unto a Layman , as to a Priest . 6. That it is not necessary or profitable to have any Church or Chappel to pray in , or to do any divine service in . 7. That buryings in Church Yards be unprofitable and vain . 8. That Holidayes ordained and instituted by the Church ( taking the Lords day in for one ) are not to be observed and kept in Reverence in as much as all dayes are alike . 9. That it is sufficient and enough to believe , though a man do no good works at all . 10. That no humane Laws or Constitutions do oblige a Christian , and finally , that God never gave Grace or knowledge to a great person or Rich man , and that they in no wise follow the same . What Anabaptist , Brownist , Ranters , Quakers , may not as well pretend that our first Reformers were of their Religion , as the Calvinists can ; if Wicklif● doctrines be the Rule of our Reformation .

27. It is alledged in the next place , that the Calvinistical Doctrines in these points may be found in the writings of John Fryth , William Tyndall , and Dr. Barnes , collected into one Volumne ▪ and to be seen the easier ( as he knows who saith ) because it was printed by John Bay 1563. Who as they suffered death for their Religion in the time of King Hen. 8. so Mr. Fox in his Preface to the said Book , calls them the Ring-leaders of the Church of England . But first , I do not take Mr. Fox to be a fit Judge in matters of the Church of England , the Articles of whose confession , he refused to subscribe , being thereto required by Arch-Bishop Parker ; and therefore Tyndal , Fryth , and Barnes , not to be hearkened to the more for his commendation . Secondly , If this Argument be of any force , for defence of the Calvinists , the Anti-Sabbatarians may more justly make use of it in defence of themselves against the new Sabbath speculatio●s of Dr. Bound , and his Adherents , imbrac'd more passionately of late then any one Article of Religion here by Law established . For which consult the History of the Sabbath , lib. 2. c. 8. Let Fryth and Tyndal be admitted as sufficient Witnesses when they speak against the Sabbath Doctrines , or not admitted when they speak in behalf of Calvin ; and then the Brethren I am sure will lose more on the one side then they gain on the other . Thirdly , taking it for granted that they maintain'd the same opinions in these points which afterwards were held forth by Calvin , yet they maintained them not as any points of Protestant Doctrine in opposition to the Errors of the Church of Rome , but as received opinions of the Dominican Friars , in opposition to the Franciscans ; the doctrine of the Dominicans , by reason of their diligent Preaching , being more generally received in England then that of the other . Fourthly , it is to be considered that the name of Luther at that time was in high estimation ▪ as the first man which brake the Ice , and made the way more easie for the rest that followed ; who concurring in judgment with the Dominicans , as to these particulars , drew after him the greatest part of such learned men as began to fall off from the Pope . And so it stood till Melancthon ( not underservedly called the Phaenix of Germany ) by moderating the rigours of Luther , and carrying on the Reformation with a gentlier hand , became a pattern unto those who had the first managing of that great work in the Reign of King Edward . Fiftly , it is Recorded in the 8th of St. Mark , that the blind man whom our Saviour at Bethsaida restored to sight , at the first opening of his eyes saw men , as trees walking , v. 24. that is to say , that he saw men walking as trees ; quasi dicat homines quos ambulantes video , non homines sed arbores mihi videntur ▪ as we read in Maldonate . By which words the blind man declared ( saith he ) so quidem videre aliquid , cum ante nihil videret , imperfecte tamen videre , cum inter homines & arbores distinguere non posset . More briefly Estius on the place , Nondum ita clare & perfecte video , ut discernere possim inter homines & arbores ; I discern somewhat said the poor man , but so imperfectly , that I am not able to distinguish betwixt trees and men . Such an imperfect sight as this the Lord gave many times to those whom he recover'd out of the Aegyptian Darkness , who not being able to discern all divine truths at the first opening of the eyes of their understanding , were not to be a Rule or precedent to those that followed , and lived in clearer times , and under a brighter beam of illumination then the others did .

28. In the third place he referres himself to our Articles , Homilies , Liturgies , and Catechisms , for the proof of this , that the Calvinistical opinions were the establish'd doctrines of the Church of England ; and if his proof holds good in this he hath gained the cause . But first he directs us to no particular place in the Catechisms , Homilies , or Liturgies , where any such matter may be found , but keeps himself aloof , and in generals only ; and we know who it was that said , Dolosus versatur in gener●libu● . When he shall tell us more particularly what he would insist on , I doubt not but I shall be able to give him a particular answer . Secondly , skipping over those passages of the Liturgie and Cat●chisms , which maintain the Universality of Redemption by the Death of Christ ; and taking no notice that the possibility of falling from grace is positively maintained in the 16th Article , and the Cooperation of mans will with the Grace of God , as clearly published in the tenth ; he sets up his rest on the 17th . Article , touching Predestination and Election , as if the Article had been made in favour of Calvin's Doctrine .

But first the Papists have observed two Reformations in the Church of England , the one under King Edward the 6th . which they called the Lutheran , and the other under Queen Elizabeth , which they called the Calvinian . And thereupon we may conclude that the 17th Article , as well as any of the rest , being framed , approved , and ratified under Edward 6. was modelled rather in relation to the Lutheran then Calvinian doctrines ; the Reformers of the Church of England , and the Lutheran Doctors , holding more closely to the Rules of Antiquity , and the practise of the Primitive Church , then the Zuinglians and Calvinists were observed to do . Secondly , The 17th . Article doth visibly presuppose a curse or state of Damnation in which all Mankind was presented to the sight of God , which overthrows the Doctrine of the Supra-lapsarians ▪ who make the Purpose and Decree of Predestination to precede the Fall , and consequently also to precede the curse . Thirdly , It is to be observed , that the Article extends Predestination to all those whom God hath chosen in Christ out of Mankind , that is to say , to all true Believers . For so the phrase Ephes. 1. 4. is generally interpreted by the ancient Fathers . For thus St. Ambrose amongst others . Sicut eligit nos in ipse , as he hath chosen us in him ; Prescius enim Deu● , omnes scit qui credituri essent in Christum ; for God ( saith he ) by his general Prescience did fore-know every man that would believe in Christ . The like saith Chrysostom on that Text. And that our first Reformers did conceive so of it , appears by that of Bishop Latimer in his Sermon on the third Sunday after the Epiphany . When ( saith he ) we hear that some be chose● , and some be damned ▪ let us have good hope that we be amongst the chosen , and live after this hope , that is , uprightly and godly , then shall we not be deceived . Think that God hath chosen those that believe in Christ , and Christ is the book of life . If thou believest lievest in him , then art thou written in the book of life , and shalt be saved .

29. In the last place we are to note , that there is a clause in the end of the Article , viz. that we are to receive Gods promises in such wise as they be generally set forth to us in holy Scripture ; then which nothing can be more contrary to the Doctrine of the Supralapsarians , which restrains Election unto life to few particulars without respect had to their Faith in Christ , or Christs death for them ; and extendeth the Decree of Reprobation to the far greatest part of Manking without relation to their incredulity or unbelief . And though your adversary tells us , that he who reads the common Prayer Book with an unprejudiced mind , cannot chuse but observe divers passages which make for a personall and eternal Election ; yet I find but little ground for the affirmation , the Promises of God as they are generally set forth unto us in Holy Scripture , being the ground of many Prayers and Passages in the Publique Liturgie ; for in the General Confession it is said expresly that the Promises of God , in Christ Jesus our Lord , are declared ( not to this or that man particularly ) but to all mankind ; declared to all , because first made to all mankind in Adam , in the promise of Redemption by the seed of the woman , Gen. 3. 15. Secondly , it is said in the Te de um , that when our Saviour Christ had overcome the sharpness of Death he did open the Kingdom of Heaven to all Believers . Thirdly , we find a Prayer for the day of the Passion , commonly called Good-Friday ▪ which is so far from pointing to any personal Election , that it bringeth all J●ws , Turk● , and Infidels within the possibility and compass of it , Morciful God ( so the Church teacheth us to pray ) who host made all men , and hatest nothing which thou hast made , nor wouldest the death of a sinner , but rather that he should be converted and live , have mercy upon all Jews , Turks , Infidel● , and Hereticks , and take from them all ignorance , hardness of heart , and contempt of thy word , and so fetch them home ( blessed Lord ) to thy flock , that they may be saved amongst the remnant of the true Israelites , and be made one fold under one Shepherd Jesus Christ our Lord , who liveth and reigneth , &c. Can your Antagonist read this Prayer , and observe those passages , and think the Liturgy so contradictory to it self , as to afford him any proof , that such a personal Election from all Eternity , as an unprejudiced mind may desire to meet with . If not , why doth he talk so confidently of divers passages which a careful Reader cannot chuse but observe in the Common Prayer Book which enclines that way ; yea , let him direct us to those passages , and reconcile the differences which he finds betwixt them .

30. And though it was not my intent to produce any arguments at this time in Justification of the Doctrine of the Church of England , as by you maintained ; yet since your Adversary stands so much on the 17th . Article , and thinks it makes so strongly for defence of the Calvinists . I will here lay down the Judgment of two Godly Martyrs , who had a chief hand in the Great Work of this Reformation , and therefore must needs know the meaning of the Church therein more then any of us . The first of these shall be Bishop Hooper , who in the Preface to his Exposition on the ten Commandments hath expresly told us , That Cain was no more excluded from the Promise of Christ , till he excluded himself , then Abel , Saul , then David , Judas , then Peter , Esau then Jacob ; that God is said to have hated Esau , not because he was dis-inherited of Eternal Life , but in laying his Mountains and his Heritage waste for the Dragons of the Wilderness , Mal. 1. 3. that the threatnings of God against Esau ( if he had not of his own wilful malice excluded himself from the Promise of Grace ) should no more have hindred his Salvation then Gods threatnings against Nineve , &c. That it is not a Christian mans part to say that God hath written Fatal Laws as the Stoick , and with necessity of destiny violently pulleth the one by the hair into Heaven , and thrusteth the other headlong into Hell , that the cause of Rejection or Damnation is Sin in man , which will not bear neither receive the Promises of the Gospel , &c. And secondly we shall find Bishop Latimer in his Sermon on the third Sunday after the Epiphany , speaking in this manner , viz. That if the most are damned the fault is not in God but in themselves ; For , Deus vult omnes homines salvos fieri , God would that all men should be saved ; but they themselves procure their own Damnation , and despise the passion of Christ by their own wicked and inordinate living . He telleth us also in his fourth Sermon preached in Lincoln shire , That Christ only , and no man else , merited Remission , Justification , and sound felicity for as many as will believe the same ; that Christ shed as much blood for Judas , as for Peter ; that Peter believed , and therefore was saved ; that Judas did not believe , and therefore was condemned ; the fault being in him only and in no body else . More to which purpose I have elsewhere noted ( as afore was said ) and give you this only for a tast to stay your stomack . And though Archbishop Cranmer , the principal Architect in the work , spent his endeavours chiefly against the Papists ; yet that most holy Martyr tells us somewhat in his fifth Book against Gardiner , fol. 372. which doth directly look this way . Where speaking of the sacrifice which was made by Christ , he lets us know , That he took unto himself not only their sinnes that many years before were dead , and put their trust in him ; but also all the sinnes of those , that until his coming again , should truly believe in his Gospel , so that now we may look for no other Priest nor sacrifice to take away our sins , but onely him and his sacrifice ; that as his dying once was offered for all , so as much as pertained unto him , he took all mens sinnes unto himself . In all which passages , and many others of like nature in the other two : there is not any thing which makes for such a personal , absolute , and irreversible decree of Predestination , as Calvin hath commended to us ; and therefore no such meaning in the 17th . Article , as his Disciples and adherents ( in defence of themselves , and their opinions ) would obtrude upon it . For if there were , your Adversary must give me some better Reason then I think he can , why Cranmer , Ridly , Hooper , and the rest that laboured in this Reformation , should command the Paraphrases of Erasmus to be translated into English , studied by Priests , and so kept in Parish Churches to be read by the People , whose Doctrines are so contrary in all these particulars to that of Calvin and his followers .

31. But I return again unto your Adversary , who in the next place remembreth us of a Catechism , published by John Poynet Bishop of Winton , which he sets forth with many circumstances to indear it to us ; as namely , that it was publick in the next year after the passing of the Book of Articles in the Reign of K. Edw. 2dly . That being by that King committed to the perusal of certain Bishops ; it was by those Bishops certified to be agreeable to the Scriptures , and Statutes of the Realm . and 3dly , That upon this Certificate the King prefixt his Royal Epistle before it , charging their moral Schoolmasters within his dominions , that diligently and carefully they should teach the same . Thus have we seen the Mountain , now comes out the Mouse ; for having thus swelled our expectation , we had reason to look for some great matter but finde none at all . Instead of laying down some clear passages out of Poynets Catechism , which might evince the point he aims at : he asks the Question , ( answer him any man that dares ) How do the Master and the Scholar plainly declare themselves to be no friends to any of the Tenents M. P contends for ? A Question which a very well studied man may not easily answer , that Catechism being so hard to come by , that scarce one Scholar in 500. hath ever heard of it , and hardly one of a thousand hath ever seen it . But your Antagonist hath good reason for what he doth , there being somewhat in that Catechism , which more confirms the points M. Pierce contends for then he is willing to make known , witness this Passage of the Catechism in the Anti-Arminianism ( from which your Adversary makes the greatst parts of his proofs & evidence ) p. 44. After the Lord God ( faith the Catechism ) had made the Heaven , Earth he determined to have for himself a most beautiful Kingdom and holy commonwealth . The Apostles and ancient Fathers that wrote in Greek , called it Ecclesi● , in English , a Congregation or Assembly , into the which he hath admitted an infinite number of men , that should be subject to one King , as their soveraign and onely head : him we call Christ , which is as much as to say , anointed , &c. to the finishing of this Common-wealth belong all they , as do truly fear , honour , and call upon God , duly applying their minds to holy and Godly living , and all those that putting all their hope and trust in him , do assuredly look for bliss of everlasting life . But as many as are in this faith stedfast were fore-chosen , predestinate and appointed to everlasting life before the world was made . For though he seems to make such onely to be the members of the Church , as were predestinated unto life from all Eternity , yet we must understand it of them chiefly ( as being the most Excellent Members of it ) not of them alone : For afterwards he enlargeth the acception of the word Ecclesia , according to the natural and proper construction of it ▪ telling us that the Church is the company of those who are called to eternal life by the Holy Ghost ; The company of all those which are called to Eternal life , and therefore not of those onely which are chosen or elected out of the number ; For many are called but few are chosen , saith our Lord and Saviour . Secondly , it is not said , that such as are Members of this Church were chosen to this end and purpose , that they might be stedfast in the Faith , and being stedfast in the faith , might in the end obtain everlasting life ; but that being stedfast in the faith , that is to say considered and beheld as such in the eternal Prescience , or fore-knowledge of Almighty God , they were predestinate and appointed to eternal life before the beginning of the world . And Thirdly , if these words or any other which he finds in Poynet , may be drawn to any other construction , which may serve his turn , he must be made to speak contrary , to the three Godly Bishops and Martyrs before remembred , who being men of greater age and more experience in the affairs of the Church , the chief Architects in the Great work of Reformation , & withal being three for one , are more to be relyed on for delivering the true sence of the Church , then any one single witness who speaks otherwise of it . 31. For whom speaks Poynet in this place , for M. Peirce or Mr. Hickman ? If he had spoke for M. Hickman , we shovld have heard of it more at large , as in that which followeth out of Nowel ; and if he do not speak for him , it must speak for you more plainly , speak the Answers unto certain Questions , to which M. Prinne directs him in the end of the Bible Printed by Robert Barker , Anno 1607. But the worst is they signifie nothing to the purpose which they were produced for . For I would fain know by what Authority those Questions and Answers were added to the end of that Bible ? If by Authority , and that such Authority can be proved , the Argument will be of force which is taken from them ; and then no question but the same Authority , by which they were placed there at the first , would have preserved them in that place for a longer time then during the sale of that Edition . The not retaining them in such Editions as have followed since , show plainly that they were of no authority in themselves , nor intended by the Church as a Rule to others ; and being of no older standding then the year 1608. they must needs seem as destitute of Antiquity as they are of Authority . So that upon the whole matter your Adversary hath limited me with a very strong argument , that they were foysted in by the fraud and practise of some Emissaries , of the Puritan Faction , who hoped to have them pass in time for Canonical Scripture , such piae Fraudes , as these are , we have too many , were those once allowed of ; some prayers , were also added at the end of the Bible in some Editions , and others at the End of the publick Liturgie ; which being neglected at the first and afterwards beheld as the authorized prayer of the Church , were by command left out of those Books and Bibles , as being the Compositions of private men , not the Acts of the Church , and never since added as before .

32. In the next place it is said , That the Composers of the 39. Articles were the Disciples and Auditors of Martin Bucer , and Peter Martyr ; or at least such as held consent with them in Doctrine : none of them their Disciples , and but few of them their Auditors , I am sure of that : Our first Reformers were too old ( Bishops , and Deans most of them ) to be put to School again unto either of them . And as for their consent in points of Doctrine , it must be granted in such things , and in such things onely in which they joyned together against the Papists , not in such points whe●●in those learned men agreed not between themselv●● ; Bucer being more enclined to the Lutheran Doctrines , and Martyr ( as it afterwards appeared ) unto those of Calvin . Besides it is to be observed , that the first Liturgy of K. Edw. 6. which was the Key to the whole Work , was finished , confirmed , and put in execution before either of them was brought over ; dispatcht soon after their arrival to their several Chair'es , Martyr to the Divinity , Lecture in Oxon , and Bucer , unto that of Cambridge where he lived not long . And dying so quickly as he did , vix salutata Accademia as my Author hath it , though he had many auditors there , yet could he no● gain many Disciples in so short a time ▪ And though Peter Martyr lived to see the death of King Edward , and consequently the end of the Convocation , Anno , 1552. in which the Articles of Religion were first composed and agreed on ; yet there was little use made of him in advising , and much less in directing any thing which concerned that business . For being a stranger , and but one , and such an one as was of no Authority in Church or State ; he could not be considered , as a Master builder , though some use might he made of him as a Labourer to advance the work . Calvin had offered his assistance , but it was refused . Which showes that Cranmer , and the Rest , to whom he made offer of his service , ( Si quis mei usus esset , as his own words are ) if they thought it needful were not so favourable to the man , or his Doctrines either as to make him or them the Rule of their Reformation .

33. Pass we next to Alexander Nowel , Dean of St. Pauls , and Prolocutor of the Convocation . An. 1●●2 . in which the Articles were Revised , and afterwards ratified , and confirmed by the Queens authority . In which capacity I must needs grant it for a truth , that he understood the conduct of all affairs in that Convocation , as well as any whosoever . But then it is to be observed , that your Adversary grants their 17. Articles to be the very same verbatim , which had before passed in the Convocation of King Edw. 6. No new sence being put upon it by the last establishment : And if no new sence were put upon it , ( as most sure there was not ) it must be understood no otherwise then according to the Judgement of those learned men , and Godly Martyrs before remembred , who concurred unto the making of it . From which if M. Nowels sence should differ in the least degree , it is to be looked upon as his own , not the sence of the Church . And secondly , it cannot rationally be inferred , from his being Prolocutor in that Convocation , and the knowledge which he needs must have of all things which were carried in it ; that therefore nothing was concluded in that Convocation , which might be contrary to his own judgement as a private person ; admitting that he was inclinable to Calvin in the points disputed , which I grant not neither . For had he been of his opinions , the spirit of that Sect is such as could not be restrained from showing it self dogmatically , and in terms express , and not occasionally onely , or upon the by ; and that too in such general terms , that no particular comfort for your Adversary can be gathered from them . And it were worth the while to know , first , why your Antagonist , appealing to his Catechism , should decline the Latin Edition of it , which had been authorized to be publiquely taught in all the Grammer Schools of England , and the English translation of the same by a friend of the Authors , 1572. both still in use , and both reprinted in these times since the year 1647 And secondly , what it was which moved him to fly for succour to the first draught of it in the English Tongue , out of which the two last were extracted ; that first draught or Edition being laid aside many years ago , and not approved by any such publick Authority as the others were , somewhat there must be in it , which brought that first Edition so soon out of credit , and therefore possibly thought fit by your Adversary for the present turn : and thought to let us know which Catechism it is he means , he seems to distinguish it from the other by being dedicated to the two Arch-Bishops , yet that doth rather betray his ignorance then advance his cause ; the Authors own Latine Edition , and the English of it being dedicated to the two Arch-Bishops as well as that ▪

34. But since he hath appealed to that English Catèchism , to her English Catechism let him go ▪ In which he cannot find so much as one single question touching the Doctrine of Predestination , or the points depending thereupon ; and therefore is necessitated to have recourse unto the Articles of the Catholick Church , the members , and ingredients of it . from thence he doth extract these two passages following ; the first whereof is this , viz. To the Church do all they properly belong , as many as do truly fear , honour , and call upon God , altogether applying their minds to live holily and Godly , and with putting all their trust in God , do most assuredly look for the blessings of Eternal life , they that be stedfast , stable and constant , in this faith , were chosen and appointed , and ( as we term it ) predestinate to this so great felicity . The second which follows not long after ( as his Book directeth ) is this that followeth , viz. The Church is the body of the Christian Commonwealth , i. e. the universal number and fellowship of the faithful , whom God through Christ hath before all beginning of time appointed to everlasting life . And here again we are to Note , that the First of these two passages not being to be found in the Latine Edition , nor the English Translation of the same , is taken almost word for word out of Poynets Catechism , and therefore to be understood in no other sence then before it was : And that the second makes the Church to consist of none but the Elect , which the nine and tenth Article makes in a more comprehensive signification . So that to salve this sore , he is fain to fly to the destinction of a visible , and invisible Church , fit for his definition unto that which he calls invisible ; making the visible Church of Christ to consist of such as are assembled to hear the Gospel of Christ sincerely taught , to call on God by prayer , and receive the Sacraments . Which persons so assembled together , are by the Article called a Cong egation of faithful men , as well as those which constitute and make up the Church invisible . And yet I doubt your Adversary will not not grant them all to be in the number of the Elect. But granting that the Church doth consist of none but the Elect , that is to say , of none but such who have been through Christ appointed to everlasting life from before all time , as is there affirmed ; yet there is nothing in all this , which justifieth the absolute and irrespective decree of the predestinarians , nothing of Gods invincible workings in the hearts of his chosen ones , which your Antagonist maintains ; or which doth manifestly make for such a personal Election , as he conceives is to be found in many passages of the Common Prayer Book ; though what those passages are , and where they are to be found ; he keeeps as a secret to himself for some new discovery .

35. For M. Nowel ▪ who sate Prolocutor in the Convocation Anno 1562. he takes a leap to the year 1587. in which he findes a Book published by D. John Bridges , Dean of Salisbury ( and afterwards Lord Bishop of Oxon ) Entituled , A Defence of the Government established in the Church of ENGLAND : And that he might come to it the sooner , he skips over the admission of Peter Barro a French man , to the Lady Margarites Professor-ship in the University of Cambridge , Anno 1574 ▪ who constantly held these points in a contrary way to that of the Calvinian plat-form , and relinquished not that University , till after the year 1595. of which more hereafter . And he skips over also Doctor Hars●ets Sermon at Pauls Cross , Octob. 27. 1584. in which he so declared himself against the Calvinistical Doctrines of Predestination , that neither Mountague , nor any that have writ since him , did ever render them more odious unto vulgar cars : But being come to him at the l●st , what finds he there ? Marry , That D. Bridges was of opinion , That the Elect fall not finally and totally from Grace ; and so did D. Overal also ( of whom more anon ) who notwithstanding , disallowed the Doctrine of Predestination , as maintained by Calvin , and puts not any such Comment on the 17. Article as your Antagonist contends for . The like he findes in M. Hookers Discourse of Justification ; from whence he concluded no more , but that M. Hooker was of a different opinion from you , in the point of falling away from Grace ▪ Which point he might maintain as D. Overal , D. Bridges , and some others did , and yet not be of the same judgment with the Calvinistical party , either sub or supra , touching that absolute and iresistable decree of Predestination , the restriction of the benefit of Christs death and passion to particular persons , and the invincible or rather irresistable operations of the grace of God , in the conversion of a sinner , which were so rigidly maintained in the Schools of Calvin . I see then what is said by D. Bridges , and what is said by M. Hooker ; but I see also what is said by the Church of England , in the 16. Article , in which we find , That after we have received the holy Ghost , we may depart from Grace given , and fall into sin , and by the grace of God , we may arise again and amend our lives . No such determination as either totally or finally to be found in the Article , nor suffered to be added to it when it was motioned and desired by D. Reynolds , in the conference at Hampton Court ; that old saying , Non est distinguendum , ubi lex , non distinguit , being as authentical as true , and as true as old . Howsoever I am glad to hear from your adversarie , that M. Hooker could not tell how to speak Judicially , as he saith he could not ; and then I hope he may be brought in time to approve of all things , which he hath written so judiciously , in behalf of the Liturgie , and all the Offices , Ceremonies , and Performances of it , which whensoever he doth , I make no question but but that he may come to like the Episcopal Government , and by degrees desert the Presbiterians , both in Doctrine and Discipline , as much as he . Certain I am , that M. Hooker maintained no such determination of humane action , by any absolute decree or prelimitation , as the Calvinists do , and declared his dislike thereof in Cartwright , the great Goliah of that Sect , who had restrained all and every action which men do in this life , to the preceding will and determination of Almighty God . Even to the takeing up of a straw , a fine piece of Dotage .

36 But he demands , How the Church came to dispose of the places of greatest influence , and trust to such as hated Arminianism as the shadow of death ? If she her self consented to those opinions , which he calls Arminian ; amongst which reckoning the Arch Bishops till the time of Laud he first leaves out Arch Bishop Cranmer , the principal instrument under God , of this Reformation ; which plainly shews , that Cranmer was no favourer of those Opinions , which your Antagonist contends for , and consequently that the Articles were not fitted in these points unto Calvin's fancie ▪ And secondly , he brings in Parker and Grindal , whom M. Prinne ( whose diligince few things have escaped which serve his turne ) hath left out of his Catalogue ; in which he hath digested all our English Writers , whom he conceived to be Antiarminianly enclined , in a kind of Cronologie . Thirdly , he brings in Bishop Bancroft , as great an enemy to the Predestinarian and Puritan Faction , as ever sate in the See of Canterbury ; he had not else impeacht the Doctrine of Predestination , as it was then taught by the Calvinians for a desperate Doctrine . You have the whole passage in the Conference at Hampton Court , impartially related by D. Burlow , though your Adversary hath some invisible vileness or other to affirm the contrary : Whereon a motion made by D. Reynolds , about falling from Grace , The Bishop of London ( this very Bancroft whom we speak of ) took occasion to signifie to his Majesty , how very many in these days , neglecting holiness of life , presumed too much of persisting Grace . If I shall be saved , I shall be saved , which he tearmed a desparate Doctrine , shewing it to be contrary to good Divinity , and the true Doctrine of Predestination : Wherein ( saith he ) we should reason rather ascendendo , then descendendo , thus ; I live in obedience to God , in love with my neighbour , I follow my vocation , &c. therefore I trust that God hath elected me and predestinated me to salvation : Not thus , which is the usual course of argument , God hath predestinated and chosen me to life , therefore though I sin never so grievously , yet I shall not be damned : for whom he once loveth , he loveth to the end ; so little a friend was this great Pralate to the Calvinian Doctrine of Predestination , and persisting Grace .

37. But your Adversary not content with this , hath found some proofs , as he conceives , That Bancroft hated that which he calls Arminianisme like the shadow of death , he telleth us that in his time came out the Book called , The Faith , Religion , Doctrine , professed in the Realm of England , and Dominions thereof . In this as much mistaken as in that before , that Book being published in the time of Arch-Bishop Whitgift , Anno 1584 , as he might have found in Mr. Fullers Church History lib. 9 fol. 172. being twenty years almost before Bancroft came to the See of Canterbury , and 12. at least before he was made Bishop of London . And being then published , was ( as he saith ) disliked by some Protestants of a middle temper , whom by this his Restrictive Comment , were shut out from a concurrence with the Church of England whom the discreet ●uxity of the Text admitted thereunto . And if disliked by Protestants of a middle temper , as he saith it was , there is no question to be made , but that it was disliked much more by all true Protestants ( such as your Adversary calls Arminians ) who constantly adhered to the determinations of the Church of England , according to the Literal and Grammatical sense , and the concurrent Expositions of the first Reformers . I grant indeed that the Book being afterwards re-printed was dedicated with a long Epistle to Arch-Bishop Bancroft . But that intituleth him no more to any of the propositions or opinions which are there maintained , then the like Dedication of a Book , to an Eminent Prelate of our Nation in denyal of Original Sin , intituled him to the maintenance of the same opinion , which he as little could digest ( they are your Adversaries own words in the Epistle to the Lecturers of Brackley ) as the most rigidly Scotized Presbyterian . Nor stays he here ; for rather then lose so great a Patron he will anticipate the time , and make Dr. Bancroft Bishop of London almost 18 moneths before he was , and in that Capacity agreeing to the Lambeth Articles . An errour which he borrowed from the Church Historian , who finding that Richard Lord Elect of London contributed his Assent unto them , puts him down positively for Dr. Richard Bancroft , without further search , whereas he might have found upon further search , that the meeting at Lambeth had been held on the 26th of November , 1595. that D. Richard Flesher Bishop of Worcester , was then the Lord Elect of London , and that D. Bancroft was not made Bishop of that See , till the 8th of May , Anno 1697.

38. The next Considerable preferments for learning the Clergy , he makes to be the two Chairs in the Universities , both to be occupied by those who were profest Enemies to such Doctrines as he calls Arminianism . Which if it were granted for a truth , is rather to be looked on as an infelicity which befell the Church , in the first choice of those Professors , then to be used as an argument , that she concurred with them in all points of Judgement . That which was most aimed at in those times in the preferring men to the highest dignities of the Church and the chief places in the Vniversities , was their zeal against Popery , and such a sufficiency of learning , as might enable them to defend those points , on which our separation from Rome was to be maintained , and the Queens interess most preserved . The Popes supremacy & the Mass , with all the points and niceties which depended on it justification by faith the marriage of Priests , Purgatory , and the power of the civil Magistrate , were the points most agitated . And whosoever appeared right in those , and did withal declare himself against the corruptions of that Church in point of manners , was seldome or never looke into for his other opinions , until the Church began to find the sad consequents of it , in such a general tendency to innovation both in doctrine and discipline as could not easily ▪ be redressed . From hence it was that we find a non-conformist ▪ though ● moderate one in the chaire at Oxon ; a Mother , but a violent Patron of in-conformity ▪ in a Professorship in Cambridge , so many hankering after Calvin in almost all the Headships of both Vniversities . And it was hardly possible , that it should be otherwise ; Such of the learned Protestants as had been trained up under the Reformation made by King Edw. 6. and had the confidence , and courage to stand out to the last in the Reign of Queen Mary ; were either martyred in the flames , or consumed in prisons , or worn out with extremity of Grief , and disconsolation . And most of those which had retired themselves beyond the Seas returned with such a mixture of outlandish Doctrines , that it was hard to find amongst them , a sufficient number of men so qualified , as to fill up the number of Bishops , and to be dignified with the Deanrys of Cathedral Churches . By means whereof there followed such an universal spreading of Calvinism over all parts of the Church ▪ that it can be no matter of wonder if the Professors of the Vniversity should be that way byassed . And yet as much as the times were inclined that way : I believe it will be hard , if not impossible for your Antagonist to prove that those Professors did agree upon such a platform of Gods decrees , as he and others of the same perswasions would fain obtrude upon us now . In Cambridge , D. Whitaker maintained the supra-Lapsarian way of Predestination , which D. Robert Abbot of Oxon condemned in the person of Perkins . And I have heard from persons of very good Esteem , that Dr. Abbot himself was as much condemned , at his first coming to the Chair , for deviating from the moderation of his Predecessor , D. Holland ; who seldome touched upon those points , when he might avoid them . For proof whereof it may be noted , that five onely are remembred by Mr. Prynne in his Anti. Arminianism , to have maintained the Calvinian tenents in all the time of that Professor , from the year 1596. to the year 1610. whereas there were no fewer then 20. who maintained them publickly in the Act ( as the others did ) in the first six years of D. Prideaux . And as for D. Overal ( one D. Overal as your Adversary calls him in contempt ) afterwards Dean of S. Pauls , Bishop of Lichfield , and at last of Norwich , that his opinion were not that for which you are said to stickle : I am sure it was not that for which he contends , that he did not Armintanize in all things , I am sure he Calvinized in none .

39. Proceed we next to the Consideration of that Argument which is derived from the censures inflicted in either Vniversity upon such as trod the Arminian path , so soon as they began to discover themselves Exemplified in Cambridge by the proceedings there against Barret , Barrow , and Simpson , in Oxon by the like , against Laud , Houson , and Bridges . Of Barret , Simpson and Bridges , I shall now say nothing , referring you to the 23. Section of this discourse , where you will find a general answer to all these particulars ; In the case of Dr. Laud , and Dr. Houson , there was somewhat else then that which was objected against the other . Your Adversary tells us of D. Housons Suspention for ●●urting onely against Calvin . If so the greater the injustice , and the more unjustifiable the suspension ; for what was Calvin unto us , but that he might be flurtad at as well as another , when he came cross unto the discipline or Doctrine of the Church of England . But Mr. Fuller tells you more particularly , that at a Sermon preached in St. Maries in Oxon , he accused the Geneva Notes , as guilty of mis-interpretation touching the divinity of Christ and his Mesiah-ship , as if symbolizing with Arrians and Jewes against them both ▪ and that for this he was suspended by D. Robert Abbot , propter Conciones publicas minus Orthodoxas & offensione plenas : Which though it proves this Reverend person to be rufly handled , yet it makes nothing to the purpose of your mighty Adversary , which was to show that some such Censures of Arminianism might be found in Oxon , as had been met withal in Cambridge ; nor doth he speed much better in his instance of D. Laud , inveighed against most bitterly in a Sermon preach'd by the said D. Robert Abbot , then Vice-Chancellor , on Easter Sunday , doth affirm it was . For in that Sermon there is nothing charged upon him in the way of Arminianism ( which was the matter to be proved , but that under Colour of preaching against the Puritans he showed himself so inclinable to some Popish opinions , that he seemed to stand upon the brink , and to be ready on all occasions to step over to them ; a Censure which hath little truth and less charity in it ; that Renowned Prelate , giving a greater testimony of his aversness from the Romish Religion at the time of his death , then any of his persecutors , and accusers did in the best Act of their lives .

40. More pertinent , but not more memorable is the case of Peter Bar●e , Professor for the Lady Margaret in the University of Cambridge ; a forrainer by birth , but one that better understood the Doctrine of the Church of England ; then many of the Natives , his Contemporaries in the University : Some differences falling out between him , and Whitakers , in the Predestinarian points , the whole Calvinian Faction rose in Armes against him ; Tyndal , Some , Willet , Perkins , Chatterton , and the rest of the tribe siding with Whitaker in the quarrel . But not being able altogether to suppress him by Argument , they resolve to work their Ends by power , apply themselves to Archbishop Whitgift , to whom they represent the danger of a growing Faction which was made against them , to the disturbance of their peace , and the disquiet which might happen by it to the Church in general . By their continuall complaints and solicitations they procure that Reverend Prelate to advise with such other Bishops as were next at hand , that is to say , the two Elected Bishops of London and Banger , with whose consent some Articles were drawn up and sent down to Cambridge for the appeasing of the controversies which were then on foot . These Articles being nine in number , contained the whole Calvinian Doctrine of Predestination with the concomitants thereof , received at Cambridge for a time , and again suppressed , rejected by King James , in the conference at Hampton-Court , Anno 1603. inserted by D. Vsher , afterwards Archbishop of Armah , in the Articles of Ireland , Anno 1615. and finally suppressed again by the Repeating of those Articles in a full Convocation , Anno 1634. Concerning which your Adversary tells us many things which must be examined .

41. For first he tells us , that his Arminianism did not only lose him from his place but lost him the affections of the University . But I must tell him , that his Arminianism , as he calls it , caused not the losing of his place ; for I am sure he held his place till the expiring of the term , allowed by the Lady Margarets Statute , whose professor he was ; Which term expired , he left it in a just disdain , of seeing himself so over-powered , and consequently exposed unto contempt and scorn , by the Arts of his Enemies . Secondly , If he lost the affection of the university , which is more then your Adversary can make proof of , unless he mean it of that part of the university onely which conspired against him , yet gained he as much love in London , as he lost in Cambridge . For dying there within few years after , it was ordered by Bishop Bancroft , that most of the Divines in the City should be present at his interment , which may be a sufficient argument that not the Bishop onely , but the most eminent Divines of London were either inclinable to his opinions , or not so much averse from them , as not to give a solemn attendance at the time of his Funeral . In the next place he quarrels with Bishop Mountague of Chichester , for saying that those Articles were afterwards forbid by Authority , and brings in M. Fuller , making himself angry with the Bishop for the when and the where , thinking it strange that a Prohibition should be conspired so softly that none but he alone should hear it . But first the Bishop living in Cambridge at that time , might hear it amongst many others , though none but he were pleased to give notice of it , when it came in question . And Secondly , the noise thereof did spread so far , that it was heard into the Low Countries ; the making of these Articles , the Queens displeasure , when she heard it , her strict command to have them speedily supprest , and the actual suppression of them , being all laid down distinctly in a Book , published by the Remonstrants of Holland Entituled , Necessaria Responsio , and Printed at Leyden , 1618. almost seven years before the comming out of Mountague's Book .

42. And now I am fallen upon this Bishop , I cannot but take notice of your adversarys most unequal dealing against him and you ; in his discrediting that part of your Argument , which contains K. James's Judgment of him , the incouragement he gave him to proceeed in his appeal , and his command to have it Dedicated unto him ; to which you might have added , for further proof of the Kings concurring in opinion with him , that he had given him his discharge or quietus est from all those calumnies of his being a Papist or Arminian , which by the two Informers had been charged upon him . And secondly , that the appeal being recommended by that King , to D. Fr. White , then Dean of Carlisle ( exceedingly cried up at that time , for his zeal against Popery ) was by him licensed to the Press , as containing nothing in the same , but what was agreeable to the publique Faith , Doctrine and Discipline , , established in the Church of England . And whereas your adversary doth not think , that the King should command any Book , written by a private Subject to be Dedicated to himself ( which to my knowledge is a matter not without examples ) he doth not so much clash with you , as put a lye into the mouth of the Reverend Prelate , from whose hand you took it . That Bishop certainly must be a man of an unheard of and unparalleld impudence , in putting such an untruth on the King deceased , to gain no greater favour from the King then Raigning , then what of ordinary course might have been presumed on .

43. For other points , which are in difference between you upon this account , I leave them wholly to your self , advertising you only of these two things ; First , that when King James published his Declaration against Vristius , in which there are so many bitter Expressions against Arminius , Bertius , and the rest of that party , he was much governed by the Counsels of Dr. James Montague , who having formerly been a great stickler against Barnet and Baroe , in the stirrs at Cambridge , was afterwards made Dean of the Chappel , Bishop of Bath and Wells , and at last of Winton ; an excellent Master in the art of insinuations , and the Kings Ecclesiastical Favourite till the time of his death , which happened on the 19th . of July 1618. Secondly , that the Reason why King James so branded the Remonstrants in the Declaration , That if they were not with speed rooted out , no other issue could be expected then the curse of God , in making a perpetual rent and destruction in the whole body of the state , pag. 39. was not because they were so in and of themselves , but for other Reasons , which our great Masters in the Schools of policy , called Reason of State . That King had said as much as this comes too , of the Puritans of Scotland , whom in the second Book of his Basilicon Doron , he calls the very pests of a Common-wealth , whom no deserts can oblige , neither Oaths nor Promises bind , breathing nothing but sedition and calumny , &c. Advising his Son Prince Henry then Heir of the Kingdom , not to suffer the Principles of them to brook his Land , if he list to sit at rest ; except he would keep them for trying his patience , as Socrates did an evil wise . And yet I trow your adversary will not grant , upon these expressions ( though he might more warrantably do it in this case then he doth in the other ) that Puritans are not to be suffered in a State or Nation , especially in such a State , which hath any mixture in it of Monarchical Government . Now the Reason of State which moved King James to so much harshness against the Remonstrants , or Arminians , call them which you will , was because they had put themselves under the Patronage of John Olden Barnevelt , a man of principal authority in the Common-wealth , whom the King looked upon as the profess'd Adversary of the Prince of Orange , his dear Confederate and Ally , who on the other side had made himself the Patron and Protector of the Rigid Calvinists . In favour of which Prince , that King did not only press the States to take heed of such infected persons , as he stiles them , which of necessiry would by little and little bring them to utter ruine , if wisely and in time they did not provide against it ; but sent such of his Divines to the Synod of Dort , as he was sure would be sufficiently active in their condemnation . By which means having served his own turn , secured that Prince , and quieted his neighbouring provinces from the present distemper , he became every day more willing then other to open his eyes unto the truths which were offered to him , and to look more carefully into the dangers , and ill consequence of the opposite Doctrines , destructive in their own nature of Monarchial Government ; a matter not unknown to any , who had acquaintance with the Court in the last times of the King . No● makes it any thing against you that his Majesties repeating the Articles of the Creed two or three days before his death , should say with a kind of sprightfulness and vivacity , that he believed them all in that sense which was given by the Church of England , and that whatsoever he had written of this faith in his life , he was now ready to seal with his death . For first the Creed may be believed in every part and article of it according as it is expounded in the Church of England , without reflecting on the Doctrine of Predestination , and the points depending thereupon . And secondly I hope your Adversary doth not think that all the bitter speeches and sharp invectives which that King made against Remonstrants , were to be reckoned amongst those Articles of his faith which he had writ of in his life , and was resolved to seal with his death ; no more then those reproachful speeches which he gives to those of the Puritan Faction , in the conference at Hampton Court , the Basilicon Doron ( for which consult my answer to Mr. Baxter neer 29. ) and elsewhere , passim in his Writings .

44. The greatest part of his Historical Arguments being thus passed over , we will next see what he hath to say of his Late Majesties Declaration , printed before the Articles , An. 1628. and then proceed unto the rest . He tells us of that Declaration , how he had learned long since that it was never intended to be a two edged Sword , nor procured out of any charitable design to setle the Peace of the Church , but out of a Politique design to stop the mouths of the Orthodox , who were sure to be censured , if at any time they declared their minds , whilst the new upstart Arminians were suffered to preach and print their Heterodox Notions without controul . And for the proof hereof , he voucheth the Authority of the Late Lord Faulkland , as he finds it in a Speech of his delivered in the House of Commons , Anno 1640. In which he tells us of these Doctrines , that though they were not contrary to Law , yet they were contrary to custome , that for a long time were no ofter preached then recanted . Next he observes that in the Recantation made by Mr. Thorne , Mr. Hodges , and Mr. Ford , it is not charged upon them , that they had preached any thing contrary to the Doctrine of the Church , according to the ancient Form of the like Recantations enjoyned by the ancient Protestants ( as he calls them ) but onely for their going against the Kings Declaration , which but only determined , not having commanded silence in those points . Thirdly , that the Prelatical oppressions were so great in pressing this Declaration , and the other about lawful Sports , as were sufficient in themselves to make wise men mad .

45. For answer to these Arguments , if they may be called so , I must first tell you that the man and his Oratour both have been much mistaken , in saying that his Majesties Declaration was no two edged sword , or that it tyed up the one side and let loose the other ; for if it wounded Mr. Thorn and his companions on the one side , it smote as sharply on the other against Dr. Rainford , whose Recantation he may find in the Book called Canterbury's Doome , out of which he hath filched a great part of his store . He is mistaken secondly in saying that this Declaration determined nothing ; for it determineth that no man shall put his own sence or Comment to be the meaning of the Article , but should take it in the Literal and Grammatical sense , which Rule if the Calvinians would be pleased to observe we should soon come to an agreement . Thirdly , if the supposition be true , as I think it be , that the Doctrines which they call Arminianism , be not against the Law , but contrary to custome only , then is the Law on our side , and nothing but custome on theirs ; and I think no man will affirm that Custome should be heard or kept when it is against Law . But fourthly , if the noble Oratour were mistaken in the supposition , I am sure he is much more mistaken in the proposition , these Doctrines being preach'd by Bishop Latimer , and Bishop Hooper , in King Edwards time , by Dr. Harsnet and Peter Baroe in Queen Elizabeths time , by Dr. Howson and Dr. Laud in King James his time , none of which ever were subjected to the infamy of a Recantation . Fiftly , if the Recantation made by Mr. Thorn and his companions imported not a retracting of their opinions ( as he saith they did not ) it is a strong argument of the mildness of his Majesties Government , and the great Moderation shown by Bishop Laud in the use of his power , in not compelling men to say or do any thing against their Conscience ; a moderation which we find not amongst those of the Sect of Calvin , when any of the opposite party fell into their hands : Sixthly , whereas it might be thought , that the Ancient Protestants ( as he merrily calls them ) had past many such severe censures upon those whom he stiles Arminians , he instanceth in none but in Barret and Bridges , which make too small a number for so great a bragg . Quid dignum tanto , and the rest . And finally for answer to the Prelatical oppressions , I shall referre you to my former Discourse with Mr. Baxter ( num. 20 , 21 , 23 ) repeating only at the present , that the Proceeding of the Bishops were mild and gentle compared with the unmerciful dealings of the Presbiterians ; by whom more Orthodox , Learned , and Religious Ministers , were turned out of their Benefices within the space of three years , then by all the Bishops in England since the Reformation .

46. But the King must not think to carry it so , the Puritan Faction being generally Calvinistical in Doctrine as well as in Discipline , prevailed so in the House of Commons , Jan. 28. 1628. that they agreed upon this Counterpoise or Anti-declaration following , viz. We the Commons now assembled in Parliament , do claim , profess and avow for truth the sense of the Articles of Religion , which were established in Parliament , 13. Eliz. Which by the publick Acts of the Church of England , and the general current Exposition of the Writers of our Church have been delivered to us ; and we reject the sense of the Jesuites and Arminians , and all other wherein they differ from us . Which counterpoise made in direct opposition to the Kings Declaration , your adversary makes a product of the Civil Authority ; whereas the House of Commons was so far at that time , from being looked on as the Civil Authority of the English Nation , that it was of no Authority at all , nor could make any Order to bind the Subject or declare any thing to be Law , and much less Religion , till it was first countenanced by the Lords , and finally confirmed by the Royal assent . But this he doth in correspondence to the said Protestation , in which the Articles of Lambeth , are called the publique Acts of the Church of England , though made by none but the Arch Bishop of Canterbury , two Bishops ( of which onely one had actually received Consecration ) one Dean , and half a dozen Doctors , and other Ministers , or thereabouts , neither impowered to any such thing by the rest of the Clergy , nor authorized to it by the Queen . And therefore their determinations , can no more properly be called the Acts of the Church , then if one Earl , with the eldest Sons of two or three others meeting with half a dozen Gentlemen in Westminster Hall , can be affirmed to be in a capacity of making Orders , which must be looked on by the Subject as Acts of Parliament .

47. Your Adversary begins now to draw toward the Lees , and in the Dreggs of his discourse offers some Arguments , to prove that those doctrines and opinions which he calls Arminianism were countenanced to no other end but to bring in Popery . And for the proof hereof , he brings in Mr. Prinn's Report to the House of Commons in the Case of Montague . An. 1626. In which it is affirmed , that the whole frame and scope of his book was to discourage the well affected in Religion , and as much as in him lay , to reconcile them unto Popery . He gives us secondly a fragment of a scattered Paper , pretended to be written to the Rector of the Jesuites Colledge in Bruxels . In which the Writer lets him know that they had strongly fortified their Faction here in England , by planting the Soveraign Drug Arminianism , which he hoped would purge the Protestants from their Heresie . Thirdly , he backs this paper with a clause in the Remonstrance of the House of Commons , Anno 1628 , where it is said that the hearts of his Majesties Subjects were perplex'd in beholding the dayly growth and spreading of the faction of Arminianism , that being as his Majesty well knew ( so they say at least ) but a cunning way to bring in Popery . All which he flourishes over by a passage in the Lord Faucklands Speech before remembered , in which it is affirmed of some of the Bishops , that their work was to try how much of a Papist might be brought in without Popery , and to destroy as much as they could of the Gospel without bringing themselves in danger of being destroyed by the Law , &c. To all which , being but the same words out of divers mouths , I shall return one answer only , which is briefly this . Your adversary cannot be so ignorant , as not to know that the same points which are now debated between the Calvinians and the Old Protestants in England , between the Remonstrants and Contra-remonstrants in the Belgick Churches , and finally , between the Rigid and Moderate Lutherans in the upper Germany , have been as fiercely agitated between the Franciscans and Dominicans in the Church of Rome ; the old English Protestants , the Remonstrants , and the moderate Lutherans , agreeing in these points with the Franciscans ; as the English Calvinists , the Contra-Remonstrants , and the Rigid Lutherans , do with the Dominicans : So that there is a complyance on all sides , with one of the said two parties in the Church of Rome . And therefore why a general compliance in these points with the Friers of St. Dominick ( the principal Sticklers and Promoters of the Inquisition ) should not be thought as ready a way to bring in Popery , as any such compliance with the Friers of St. Francis , I would fain have your Adversary tell me when he puts out next .

49. The greatest of the storm being over , there remains only a few drops which will make no man shrink in the wetting , that is to say , the permission of some books to be frequenly printed containing the Calvinian Doctrine ; and the allowance of many questions to be maintained publiquely in the Act at Oxon , contrary to the sence of those which he calls Arminians . Amongst the Books so frequently printed , he instanceth in the Practise of Piety , Perkins his Principles , Balls Catechism , &c. which being incogitantly licensed to the Press at their first coming out , could not be afterwards Restrained from being Reprinted ( notwithstanding the many inconveniences which ensued upon it ) till the passing of the Decree in Star-Chamber , July 1637. concerning Printing ; by which it was ordered ( to the great grief and trouble of that Puritan faction ) that no Book whatsoever should be reprinted , except Books of the Law , till they were brought under a review , and had a new License for reprinting of them . And though D. Crakanthorps Book against the Archbishop of Spalato was but once printed , yet being called Defens●o Ecclesiae Anglicanae ; it serves your Adversaries turn as well as if it had been Printed an hundred times over . How so ? because Dr. Abbot said of that Treatise , that it was the most accurate piece of Controversie which was written since the Reformation : If you are not affrighted with this Apparition , I dare turn you loose to any single Adversary made of flesh and blood . These words if spoken by D. Abbot , being spoken by his Ghost , not the Man himself . For D. Abbot dyed in March , Anno 1617. And Crakanthorps Book dedicated to King Charles ( as your Author no●eth ) came not out till the year 1625. which was eight years after . Nor can your Antagonist help himself by saying he means the other Abbot , Archbishop of Canterbury who lived both at and after the coming out of the Book ; for he speaks positively & by name of that Dr. Abbot whom King James preferred to the See of Salisbury . At the Ridiculousnes of which passage now the the first terrible fright is over , you may make your self merrier , if you please , then Mr Fuller is said to make himself with the Bishop of Chichester .

49. To set out the next Argument in the fairer Colours , he tells us of some Act Questions were appointed by the Congregration to be disputed of at the Publick Acts which were maintained by the Proceeders in a Calvinistical way . And this he ●sher●th in with this Interrogation . Whether the Vniversity did not know the opinions of the Church of England , or would countenance any thing which had so much as the appearance of a contrari●ty thereunto ? Had this Question been particularly propounded , voted and allowed in the General Convocation of that University ( as M. Prinne affirms they were ) it might be Logically inferred ( as M. Prinne concludes from those faulty premises ) that the Judgement and Resolution of the whole University is comprised in them as well as of the men that gave them ; For which see Anti-Armin . p. 241. But I hope your Adversary will not say the like of the Congregation ( in which onely those Articles are allowed of , consisting of no other then the Vice-Chancellor , the two Proctors , the Regent Masters , and some Regents ad pla●itum , few of which ( the Vice-Chancellor ▪ and Proctors Excepted onely ) are so well studied in those Deep points of Divinty , as to be trusted with the Judgement of the University . If any be now living , as no doubt there be , who heard this Question maintained negatively by D. Lloyd , Anno 1617. viz: An Ex Doctrina Reformatorum sequatur deum esse Authorem Peccati : He may perhaps be able to tell what satisfaction the Calvinians received in it . But he must be as bold a Man as your Antagonist , who dares affirm , That the Arminian Doctors shewed themselves rather Angry then able Opponents . Howsoever you have here some Arminian Doctors , in the year , 1617. At what time D. Laud was so far from sitting in the Saddle , ( as your Author words it ) that he had scarce his foot in the stirrup , being at that time advanced no higher then the poor Deanry of Glocester .

50. And as the Bishop , so the Duke was but Green in favour , when those Arminian Doctors shew'd themselves such unable Opponents ; his first honours being granted to him but the August before , and his Authority at that time in the blossome onely : so that I must needs look upon it as an act of impudent injustice in your Antagonist to ascribe the beginning of those doctrines , which he calls Arminian , to Laud and Buckingham ; and a high degree of malice in him as to affirm , that the last had so much of an Herod , as would not have suffered him so long to continue with friendship with the former , if he had not had too little of a St. John Baptist . And yet not thinking he had given them a sufficient Character , he tells us within few lines after , that their ●●●rishing was the decay of Church and State , that neither body could well recover but by spewing up such evil instruments . Whether with more Puritanical Passion , or unmannerly zeal , it is hard to say . Methinks the fellow which dares speak so scandalously of such eminent persons , should sometimes cast his eye on those , who have suffered condign punishment for such libellous language . Scandalum magnatum being a crime , which the most moderate times have published in most grievous manner . For my part , I must needs say to him , as Cicero once did to Marcus Antonius , Miror to quorum facta immittere , earum exitus non per horrescere ; that I admire he doth tremble at the Remembrance of the punishments of so many men ▪ whose facts he imitateth . But as Abigal sayes of the Churle her Husband ▪ that Nabal was his name , and Folly , was with him ; so I may say , that there is somewhat in the name of your Adversary which betrayes his nature , ( and showes him to be . I will not say ( as she did ) a man of Belial , but ) a man of scorn . For if Hickman in the Saxon Tongue signifie a Scorner , a man of scorn , or one that sits in the seat of the scornful ( as I think it doth ) this fellow , whom a charitable man cannot name with patience , hath showed himself abundantly to be vere scriptor sui nominis , as the Historian once affirmed of the Emperour Pertinax . Let me beseech your pardon for these rough expressions , to which my pen hath not been accustomed , and which nothing but an invincible indignation could have wrested from me . And then for his part let the shame and sence thereof work so far upon him as to purge out of him all Envy . Hatred ▪ Malice , and uncharitableness ( from which good Lord deliver us ) for the time to come .

51. And here I might have took my leave both of him and you , in reference to the Historical part of his tenpenny trifle which we have before us , so far forth as it concerns your selfe , and your particular ingagings . But finding some other passages in it relating to the late Archbishop , and the other Prelates which require Correction , I shall not let them pass without endeavouring to rectifie his Errata in them . And first he asks , How was the late ArchBishop an obedient Sonne of the Church of England , who put Mr. Sherfield a Bencher of Lincolne ▪ Inne , and Recorder of Salum , to so much cost , and a disgraceful acknowledgement of his fault , and caused him to be bound to his Good behaviour , for taking down a Glasswindow , in which there were made no less then seaven Pictures , God the Father in form of a little old Man clad in a blew and red Coat , with a Pouch by his side about the bigness of a Puppet ? A question easie to be answered , and my Answer is , that the Archbishop did nothing in it but what became a true Sonne of the Church of England , and more then so , that he had not shewed himselfe a deserving Father in this Church , if he had done otherwise . For take the story as it stands apparell'd with all its circumstances , and we shall find such an encroachment on the Episcopal power and jurisdiction , as was not to be expiated with a gentler sentence . They had a Bishop in the City , continually Resident amongst them , and one that hated the Idolatries and superstitions of the Church of Rome , with a perfect hatred . This Reverend Father must not be consulted in the business , for fear it might be thought , that it was not to be done without him . A Parish Vestry must be called , by which M. Sherfield is inabled to take down the offensive Pictures , and put new white Glass in the place , though he be transported with a fit of unruly zeal , instead of taking it down breaks it all in pieces , Here then we have an Eldership erected under the Bishops nose , a Reformation undertaken by an Act of the Vestry , in contempt of those whom God and his Majesty , and the Laws had made the sole Judges in the case . An example of too sad a consequence to escape unpunished , and such as might have put the people upon such a Gog , as would have le●t but little work to the late Long Parliament . Non ibi consistent Exemplaubi ceperunt sed in tenuem recepta tramitem latissime evagandi sibi viam faciunt ▪ as my Author hath it .

52. But he proceeds according to his usual way of asking Questions , and would fain know in what respect they may be accounted the obedient Sons of the Church , who study by all their learning to take off that ignominous name of Antichrist from the Pope of Rome , which had bin fastned on him by King James , Archbishop Whitgift , Bishop Andrews , and the late Lord Primate ; and finally , by the whole Clergy in their Convocation , An. 1605. In the recital of which Proof , I find not that the name of Antichrist was ever positively and and in terminis , ascribed unto the Popes of Rome by any Article , Homily , Canon , or injunction , or by any other publick Monument of the Church of England , which leave it to the Liberty of every man to conceive therein according as he is satisfied in his own mind , and convinced in his ▪ understanding ▪ Arch-bishop Whitgift , the Primate , & Bishop Andrews conceived the Pope to be Antichrist , and did write accordingly ; Archbishop Laud , and Bishop Mountague were otherwise perswaded in it , and were not willing to exasperate those of the Popish Party , by such an unnecessary provocation , yet this must be accounted amongst their crimes : For aggravating whereof he telleth us ▪ that the Pope was proved to be Antichrist by the Pen of King James , which is more then he can prove that said it . K. James used many Arguments for the proof thereof ; but whether they proved the point or not , may be made a question ▪ Assuredly the King himself is to be looked on as the fittest Judge of his own intentions & performance . And he declared to the Prince at his going to Spain , that he writ not that discourse concludingly , but by way of Argument , to the end that the Pope and his Adherents might see there was as good Arguments to prove him Antichrist , as for the Pope to challenge any temporal Jurisdiction over Kings and Princes . This your Antagonist might have seen in his own Canterburies doom , fol. 264. Out of which Book he makes his other Argument also which proves the name of Antichrist to be ascribed unto the Pope by the Church of England because the Lords spiritual in the upper house and the whole Convocation in the Act of the subsidy , 3. Jacobi , so refined ●● ▪ If so ▪ If any such Definition passed in the Convocation , it is no matter what was done by the Lords Spiritual in the upper House of Parliament ( for that I take to be his meaning ) as signifying nothing to the purpose . Wherein Gods name , may ▪ such an unstudied man as I find that definition ? not in the Acts of Convocation , I am sure of that , and where there was no such point debated and agreed upon ; all that occurs is to bee found onely in the preamble to the Grant of Subsidies , made at a time when the Prelates and Clergy were amazed at the horror of that Divellish plot for blowing up the Parliament Houses , with the King , Prelates , Peers Judges , and the choicest Gentry of the Nation by the fury of Gun-powder . But were the man acquainted amongst Civilians , they would tell him that they have a Maxime to this Effect , that Apices juris nihil ponuns . The Titles and preambles to Laws are no definitions , and neither bind the subject in his purse or Pater-noster ,

53. As for the rest of the Bishops , I find two of them charged particularly , and the rest in General . Mountague charged from ▪ D. Prideaux , to be merus Grammatius , and Linsel charged from M. Smart to have spoken reproachfully of the first Reformers on the Book of Homilies . But as Mountague was too great a Scholar to be put to School to D. Prideaux in any point of Learning of what kind soever ; so Linsol was a Man of too much sobriety to use those rash and unadvised speeches which he stands accused of . And as for Mr. Smart , the apology of D. Cosens speaks him so sufficiently , that I may very wel save myself the labour of a Repetition . More generally he tells us from a speech of the late Lord Faulkland , that some of the Bishops , and their adherents have destroyed unity under pretence of uniformity , have brought in superstition and scandal under the title of Reverence and decency , and have defiled our Churches , by adoring our Churches &c. p. 40. and not long after , p 64. That they have so industriously laboured to deduce themselves from Rome , that they have given great suspition , that in Gratitude they desire to return thither , or at least to meet it half way . Some have evidently laboured to bring in an English , though not a Romish Papacy ; not the out side and dress of it onely , but equally absolute a blind dependence of the People on the Clergy , and of the Clergy on themselves ▪ and have opposed Papacy beyond the Sea , that they might settle one beyond the water But these are onely the evaporations of some discontents which that noble Orator had contracted . He had been at great charges in accommodating himself with necessaries , for waiting on his Majesty in his first expedition against the Scots , in hope of doing service to his King and Country , and gaining honour to himself , dismist upon the Pacifiation ( as most of the English Adventurers ) without thanks of honour ; where , he made himself more sensible of the neglect which he conceived he suffered under , then possibly might consist with those many favours which both Kings had shewed unto his Father . But no sooner had that noble soul dispers'd those clouds of discontent which before obscured it , but he brake out again in his natural splendor , and show'd himself as zealous an advocate for the Episcopal order , as any other in that house , witness this passage in a speech of his not long before the dismissing of the Scottish Army . Anno 1641. viz. The Ground of this Government by Episcopacy is so ancient , and so general , so uncontradicted in the first and best times that our most laborious antiquaries can find , no Nation no City , no Church , no Houses under any other , that our first Ecclesiastical Authors tell us of , that the Apostles not onely allowed but founded Bishops ; so that the Tradition for some Books of Scripture , which we receive as Cunonical , is both less ancient , less General , and less uncontradicted then that is . We have lived long happily and Gloriously under this form of Government , it hath very well agreed with the Constitutions of our Laws , with the disposition of our people : How any other will do I the less know , because I know not of any other , of which so much as any other Monarchy hath had eperience , they all having ( as I conceive ) at least superintendents for life ; and the meere word Bishop I supposed , is no mans aim to destroy , nor no mans aim to defend , &c. so that if we should take away a Government which hath as much testimony of the first Antiquity to have been founded by the Apostles , as can be brought for some parts of Scripture to have been written by them , my fear is least this may avert some of our Church from us , and rivit some of the Roman Church to her . So he when he was come again to his former temper , and not yet entred or initiated into Court Preferments .

54. And thus at last I shall end my trouble and your own , having performed as much as I proposed to my self in answer to the Historical part of your Antagonists discourse , in which he laboureth to evince that the Calvinian Doctrines by you opposed , are no other then the establisht Doctrines of the Church of England . In the managing whereof I could wish he had carried himself with more Respect towards some great persons whom he ought not to have looked on but with eyes full of Duty and reverence ; and that he had not given me so just cause to think that by his speaking Evil of Dignities , he may be also one of those who despise Dominion , I could have wisht also , that both M. Baxter and himself would have given me leave to have worn out the remainder of my days in peace and quiet ▪ without engaging me in any of those disputes by which they have given so much trouble to themselves and others . For your part ( happy man be your do●e ) I see there is a way chalkt out for your Redintegration . It is but going over to your Adversary in the point of Election ▪ and Gods invincible working on the hearts of his chosen ones , & then he doth asture you of a speedy agreement , or at the least , that you should easily bear with one another in the present Differences . Can M. Pierce remain so obstinate , as not to hearken to a Pacification , on such easie terms , as giving to his Adversary the right hand of fellowship , & captivating his own judgement to the sence of Calvin , the great Dictator , in the Churches of the Reformation , to whom so many ▪ knees have bowed , and much tribute of obedience hath been paid both with heart and hand ? Why do not you offer the same terms , to so kind an adversary , and tempt him to a Reconciliation on the like conditions ; which if he be not willing to accept when offered , you may then keep your selfe at that honest distance , which hitherto hath made you unaccessible to all approaches , and kept you out of the reach of their shot , whether bolts or shafts . What fortune will befall my selfe upon this encounter , I am not able to determine ; having done nothing to deserve the just displeasure and little hoping to obtain the favour of those men , who shall think themselves concerned in it , some men are so in love with their own opinions , that they do not onely hate to be Reformed in the Psalmists Language , but carry an evil eye towards those who have laboured in it ; looking upon them with as much disdain & indignation as Hanun the King of Ammon did on Davids Messengers when he returned them to their Masters with their beards half shaven , and their Garments cut off in disgrace to their very buttocks , 2 Sam. 10. 4. But be my fortune what it will , it will , be a most infinite content unto me , that by my weak endeavors I have contributed any thing to the Glory of God , the vindication of the truth , the edification of the Church , and the satisfaction of those pious souls who heartily do pray for the peace of Jerusalem , and most effectually endeavor to promote the Work . Amongst which number there is none who can more possionately desire to be entertained , then

Your most affectionate friend and Brother in Christ Jesus , Peter Heylyn . Lacies Court in Abingdon , April 15. 1659.

A POST-SCRIPT To the former Papers . SIR ,

AFter I had dispatched the Papers foregoing to the Press , I called to mind a passage in a Letter , sent from Dr. Ridley , then Bishop of London , to Mr. Hooper , Bishop of Glocester ( which you shall find , amongst many others , in the Acts and Monuments ) in which he signifieth unto him , that though they had sometimes differed in matter of Ceremony , yet there had been an uniform consent between them in matter of Doctrine : So that unto the testimonies of Arch Bishop Cranmer , Bishop Latimer , and Bishop Hooper in maintenance of the cause which you contend for : you may add also the concurrence of Bishop Ridley ; whose judgement in carrying on the Reformation , was of such Authority , that Canmer more relied on him then on any other .

I have been also further advertised of two Letters , which are to be seen of M. Barrets own hand writing , the one to D. Goad , Master of Kings Colledg ▪ the other to Mr. Chatterton , Master of Emanuel Colledge in Cambridge ; in which he plainly lets them know , That he would never yield to make that recantation , to which for fear of losing his fellowship , and being expelled the Vniversity , endeavoured to draw him ; as also that D. Cosens and D. Martin , making a diligent search into the Registers of the University , could never find any such Recantation , to have been made by the said Barret , as is exemplified unto us in the Anti Arminianism , & from thence taken by M. Hickman , though he do not so much as once acknowledg by whom he profiteth : & I am the more apt to believe , that Barret never made the Recantation , which is fathered on him ; because it appears clearly by the Acts themselves , that though he did confess the Doctrines wherewith he was charged , to have been positively and expresly delivered by him , yet he averreth as expresly , Quod contenta in iisdem Religione Ecclesiae Anglicanae omnino noti repugnant , That they contained nothing contrary to the Doctrine of the Church of England .

All that I find in the said Acts , is the enjoyning of a Recantation , the drawing of it into form , and the delivering of it to Barret on the 5. of May , by him to be published in S. Maries Church on the Saturday after ; and all this done , when neither the Margaret Professor , was of the same judgement with Barret , nor the Vice-Chancellor himself , whom it concerned as much as any , were consulted in it : But that Barret ever made this Recantation , or that this Recantation was the same in all particulars with that which he was required to publish , depends upon the credit of a scattered Paper ; those which have most insisted on it , appealing rather to private Authors for the proof thereof , then to the authentick Records of that Vniversity : So that when it is said so positively by M. Prinne , that this Recantation was made by M Barret , on the 10th of May , 1595. in the University Church of S. Marys in Cambridge , & out of him repeated by Mr. Hickman with as great a confidence , they do both wrong the dead , and abuse the living . For it appeareth by a Letter sent from the heads of Cambridge , to the Lord Treasurer Burleigh , then being Chancellor of that University , that Barret had not made that Recantation on the 8 of March , which was full ten months after the said 10 of May , in which the publishing of this Recantation is affirmed of him . About a year past , say they , ( amongst divers others , who here attempted publickly to teach new and strange opinions in Religion ) one M. Barret more boldly then the rest , did preach divers Popish Errors in St. Marys , to the just offence of many , which he was joyned to retract , but hath refused so to do in such sort as hath been prescribed him . Out of which Letter bearing date the 8th of March , 1595. exemplified by M. Prynn in the Anti-Arminianism ( 254 ) and therefore seen by M. Hickman in the course of that Book , I conclude three things . 1. That M. Prinne , and M. Hickman have ●aid a Defamation upon Barret , which they cannot justifie , as being contrary to their own knowledge in that particular . 2. That besides Barret there were diuers others who preacht the sad new and strange opinions in Religion , as the Letter calls them , though not so confidently and boldly , as Barret did ; and 3. That it is not said in the Letter , that Barrets Doctrines gave offence to all , or the greatest part , but that they gave offence to many ; and if they gave offence but to many onely , there must be many others ( and possibly the greatest part ) in that University , to whom they gave no offence at all .

I find also in the Title to this Recantation as it stands in the Anti-Arminianism ( p. 56. ) that M. Harsenet of Pembrook-Hall , is there affirmed to have maintained , the supposed Errors for which Barret was condemned to a Recantation : And 't is strange that Harsnet should stand charged in the Tiltle of another mans sentence , for holding and maintaining any such points as had been raked out of the Dunghil of Popery and Pelagianism , as was there affirmed ; for which he either was to have been questioned in his own person , or not to have been condemned in the title to the Sentences passed on another man . Which circumstance , as it discredits the Title , so the title doth as much discredit the reality of the recantation : Adeo mendaciorum natura est , ut coherere non possint , said Lactantius truly . Besides it is to be observed , that Harsnet did not only maintain the said Opinions in the Vniversity , but preacht them also at S. Paul's Cross , Anno 1584. not sparing any of those dious aggravations , with which the Calvinian Doctrines in those points hath been charged by others ; and yet we cannot find that any offence was taken at it , or any recantation enjoyned upon it , either by the High Commission , or the Bishop of London , or any other having Authority in the Church of England , as certainly there would have been , if the matter of that Sermon had been contrary to the rules of the Church , and the appointments of the same : And thereupon we may conclude ( were there no proof else ) that where Doctor Baroe had for 14. or 15. years ( as is said in that Letter ) maintained those Opinions in the Schooles , which M. Hickman noveliseth by the name of Arminians ; and such an able man as Harsnet , had preached them without any control , and the greatest Audience of the Kingdome did stand to him in it , There must be many more Barrets who concurred in the same opinions with them in that Vniversity , though their names through the envy of those times are not come unto us .

And this appears more fully by that which followed on the death of D. Whitacres , who died within few days after his return from Lambeth , which the nine Articles so much talkt of : Two Candidates appeared for the Professorship after his decease , Wotton of Kings Colledge , a professed Calvinian , and one of those who wrote against Mountague's Appeal , Anno 1626. Competitor with Overal of Trinity Colledg , as far from the Calvinian Doctrine in the main plat-form of Predestination , as Baroe , Harsnet , or Barret are conceived to be . But when it came unto the vote of the Vniversity , the place was carried for Overal by the major part , which plainly shows , that though the Doctrines of Calvin were so hotly stickled for by most of the heads , yet the most part of the members of that learned body entertained them not .

And thereby we may guess at another passage , which I finde in yo● Adversary , where he declares that Peter Baroe's Arminianism c●● him the loss of his place , and which was worse , lest him the affect ons of the University . Where first , it may seem very strange , th● Baroe should loose his place for Arminianism , An. 1595. when as t●● name of Arminianism was not known in England til the year 16●● Secondly , that he should loose the affection of the University , ●● maintaining those Doctrines , in which there was such a good compliance betwixt him and Overal . And therefore thirdly , it is ver● improbable , that Baroe should be put out of his place by those wh● ha● brought Overal in , after no less then twenty years experience ●● his pains and studies : In which respect it is more likely that he relinquished the place of his own accord , in which he found his Doctine crossed by the Lambeth Articles , his peace disturbed by sever● Informations , preferred against him by some of the Calvinians , an● thereupon a Letter of complaint presented to the L. Treasurer Burleigh of whose affections towards him , he seemed more diffident then there was good cause for ; so that the most that can be said , is no more then this , that he was willing to depart from that place in peace , in which ●e saw he could not live without disturbance ; and therefore that he rather left the place , then the place left him , though possibly he might see that he could not keep it without loosing himself .

I began this Post-script with Bishop Ridley . and shall end it with a note relating to Bishop Laud : Reproached by your Antagonist , for justifying the picturing of God the Father in the form of an old man , out of that place of Daniel , where he is called the Ancient of Days ; and this ( saith he ) I have from a Gentleman of good repute , though that Gentleman must not be named , for fear of being taken notice of for his best Benefactor ; the story you may find at large in Canterburies Doom , fol. 102. 103. where that Author mentioneth the censure past upon M. Sherfield , in the Court of Star-Chamber , for defacing the Pictures in one of the windows , in S. Edmunds Church , in the City of Salisbury : What I have said in this case , as to Sherfields censure , you have seen already ; I shall now add what I then hastily passed over , that is to say , that the Bishop did not justifie the picturing of God the Father in that or any Form what soever , but only touched upon the reasons which induced some Painters to that representation , which they grounded on Dan. 7. 9. where God the Father is not only called the Ancient of Days , to fignifie his Eternity before all time ( which was so much insisted on by the Earl of Dorset ) but described after the similitude of an old man , whose garments were as white as snow , and the hair of his head like the pure wooll , as the Text informs us .

Certamen Epistolare , OR , The Letter Combate . PART . III. Containing a Decertation about Forms of Government , the power of the Spartan Ephori , and the Jewish Sanhedrim . Managed Letter-wise betweene Peter Heylyn , D. D. And J. H. of the City of Westminster Esq

Tacit Annal. Lib. 1. Suspecto , Senatus Populique imperio ob certamina Potentium , & Avaritiam Magistratuum , invalido legum auxilio , quae vi , Ambitu , postremo Pecunia turbabantur .

LONDON , Printed in the Year , 1659.

To his ever Honoured Friend , S EDWARD FILMER of Sutton , in the County of KENT . SIR ,

HOw great a loss I had in the death of my most dear and honoured Friend , your deceased Father , no man is able to conjecture , but he that hath suffered in the like . So affable was his conversation , his discourse so rational , his Judgment so exact in most parts of Learning , and his affections to the Church so exemplary in him , that I never enjoyed a greater felicity in the company of any man living , then I did in his : In which respects I may affirm both with safety and modesty , that we did not onely take sweet counsel together , but walked in the House of God as Friends , I must needs say , I was prepared for that great blow , by the loss of my preferment in the Church of Westminster , which gave me the opportunity of so dear and beloved a neighborhood ; so that I lost him partly before he ▪ dyed , which made the misery the more supportable , when I was deprived of him for altogether . But I was never more sensible of the infelicity , then I am at this present , in reference to that satisfaction , which I am sure he could have given the Gentleman whom I am to deal with : His eminent abilities in these Political Disputes , exemplified in his judicious observations on Aristotles Politiques ; as also in some passages on Grotius , Hunton , Hobbs , and other of our late Discoursers about Formes of Government , declare abundantly how fit a Man he might have been , to have dealt in this cause , which I would not willingly should be betrayed by unskilful● handling : And had he pleased to have suffered his Excellent Discourse called Patriarcha to appear in publick , it would have given such satisfaction to all our great Masters in the Schools of Politie , that all other Tractates in that kind , had been found unnecessary : But since he cannot be recalled , and that he did not think it fit while he was alive , to gratifie the Nation in publishing that excellent Piece ( which might have served for a Catholicon or General Answer to all Discourses of this kind ) I have adventured on that work , which the Consciousness of my own inability might deter me from , if the desire of satisfying the expectation of such a modest and ingenious Adversary , had not over-ruled me : Whatsoever I have done therein , as it is now left to the publique Censure , so do I submit it more particularly to your equal Judgement , in whom there is so much of the Father , as renders you a competent Judge in the case between us . Which trouble I had sooner given you , but that the Papers lay so long with a friend in London , before they could finde the way to the Press , that I was put upon the necessity of another Encounter , which was to have precedence of it in the course of the Book . But it comes time enough to interrupt your studies and affairs of greater Moment , to be a Testimony of the confidence I have in your favourable opinion of me , and finally to serve as a publique acknowledgment of those many undeserved civilities , which your Father , your self , and the rest of your Family , have been from time to time vouchsafed unto ,

SIR , Your most affectionate Friend and Devoted Servant . Peter Heylyn . Lacies Court in Abingdon , April 20. 1659.

The Answer of P. H. D. D. to the Letter of J. H. Esq ; The Introduction of the whole . SIR ,

AT my coming to London about Midsommer last , I found some Papers left for me in the way of a Letter ( at my accustomed Rendezvouz ) with this following Title , viz. The Stumbling Block of Disobedience and Rebellion , cunningly imputed by P. H. unto Calvin ; Removed in a Letter to the said P. H. from J. H. By which Title of Superscription , it was easy to know whom you had designed for your Adversary in the two first Letters ; and it was not hard for me to find by the two last Letters , with whom I was to deal , having received some advertisment of it from a friend in Oxon , before I set forwards on my journey . The Papers being put into my hands , I could no longer defer the curiosity of having them read over to me , then the withdrawing into a more convenient room must of necessity admit ; and having had them read over to me . I found my self pressed with this Dilemma , that either I must return an answer to you , or confess the whole Book to be answered by you . I found no reason for the last , and therefore thought it more convenient to give you content in the first with as much conveniency as I could . But I had then other fish to fry , whereof perhaps you may have tasted before this time . Nor was I without other businesses , which as they brought me to the City , so they occasioned a longer stay there then I first intended . In the mean time a book of one Mr. Baxter's was by chance offered to my perusal , in which I found my self concerned , and so concerned , that I thought it safer to venture somewhat on your patience , then to sink under those Reproaches which were laid upon me . In which till I had satisfied both my self and him , I could not give my thoughts the leasure of rendering you that satisfaction which you had required . But having now dispatch'd with him , I shall be the betterable to attend your Motions ; and shall therefore follow after you step by step as you move before me . I must confess you are an Adversary whom I look'd not for , Non expectato vulnus ab hoste venit . In the Poets words ; but then I must confess withal that I am fallen into the hands of a generous Adversary , of whom I am sure of fair quarter , if I should be vanquished , and no reviling Language ( as I have had of late from others ) should I win the day ; and to be overcome by such an enemy , is a kind of Victory . With this encouragement I put my self into the lists , notwithstanding all those disadvantages which appear against me ; You coming fresh into the field , well seconded , and dayly exercised in those Political Disputes , which either I have never managed , or ( being tired and broken with other businesses ) have long since dis-used .

2. But first I am to purge my self ( according to the old known Laws of Duel ) from having about me any spells , any charmes or Magical spells , from being guilty of that cunning and indirect proceedings which you put upon me . Those two words , cunningly imputed , which I find in your Title , are many in effect , though few in number , and tend to render me shspected of fraud and forgery , as if I had laid a stumbling block before Calvins doors , which bind no Grammatical Construction , or by any Logical inference can be gathered from them . But if you look upon us both with a single and impartial eye , you will find no such cunning in me , ( for I am not of his mind ) who said , Dolus an virtus quis in boste requirat . Nothing but plain and down ▪ right dealing , nothing but what the Scots Commissioners collected from those words of Calvin to justifie their disobedience and rebellion against their own most rightful Queen , whom they had persecuted , and deposed , and driven out of her Kingdom ; a full account whereof I have given elsewhere , both in the Preface to that book of which you have undertaken the Confutation , and in the 128th Section of my answer to Mr. Baxters Letter , in either of which you may consult it . And secondly , I must crave leave according to the Laws of Duell , to take the length of your weapon , that I may fit my own unto it . I mean , that with your leave and liking , I may take the measure of your Letter , transcribing it line for line , and word for word , as it came unto me , that my answer may be fitted and proportioned to it . Without which I can neither manage the Combate , as I ought to do , nor the spectators be delighted with the sight thereof as they ought to be ; Nor such as are to judge between us can be enabled to determine as of right they ought , to whom the victory belongeth . Hanc veniam petimusque damusque vicissim . as you know who said . Now the Copy of your Letter is as followeth .

The Letter of J. H. to P. H. SIR ,

I Gave my Judgment upon your late Book ( that I mean against Calvin ) in such manner among some Gentlemen , that they desired me to write something in answer to it , which if there happen to be need , I may ; In the mean time , it will perhaps be enough , if I acquaint you with as much as I have acquainted them . In this Book of yours , you speak some things as a Polititian only , others as a Polititian and a Divine too . Now to repeat a few , and yet as many I think as are needful of each kind , I shall begin with the former .

The Rise , Progress , and Period of the Common-wealth of Lacedemon is observable in Authors by these steps .

1. The insufficiency of the Monarchy . 2. The Form of the Common-wealth . 3. An infirmity in the Form , and a cure of it . 4. The corruption and dissolution of the whole .

All which happened within the compass of 800 years .

To the first you say , That the Spartan Kings were as absolute Monarchs as any in those times , till Eurytion or Eurypon to procure the good will of the Rascal-rabble pag. 39 , 40 , 41. ( so you commonly call the People ) purchased nothing by the loss of Royalty besides an empty name unto his family , thence called the Eurypontidae .

It is true that Plutarch in the life of Lycurgus says that Eurypon was the first , who to obtain favour with the people , let loose the reins of Government ; and this he saith there without shewing any necessity that lay upon the King so to do ; Nevertheless that such necessity there was , is apparent in Agis , where he affirmeth , that a King of Lacedemon could never come to be equal unto any other King , but only by introducing equality among the people ; forasmuch as a Servant or Lievtenant of Seleucus or Ptolemy , was worth more then ever were all the Kings of Sparta put together . Which latter speech , if a man consider the narrowness of the Laconick Territory , being but a part of Peloponesus , must needs evince the former action to have been not so voluntary in Eurypon , as in prudence unavoidable . But Eurypon having by this means rather confessed the infirmity of the Monarchy , then introduced any cure of the Government , it remained that the people , not yet brought under fit orders , must needs remain in disorders , as they did , till the Institution of the Common-wealth .

The Monarchy that is or can be absolute must be founded upon an Army planted by Military Collonies , upon the over-ballance of Land , being in the Dominion of the Prince , and in this case there can neither be a nobility , nor a people to gratifie , at least without shaking the foundation , or dis-obliging the Army . Wherefore the Spartan Kings having a Nobility or People to gratifie , were not absolute . It is true you call the Kings of France absolute , so do others , but it is known that in the whole world there is not a Nobility nor a People so frequently flying out or taking Arms against their Princes , as the Nobility and people of France .

The Monarch that is founded upon a Nobility , or a Nobility and the People ( as by the rise and progress of the Norman Line in our Story is apparently necessary ) must gratifie the Nobility , or the Nobility and the People , with such Laws and Liberties as are fit for them , or the Government , as we have known by experience , is found in France , and no doubt was seen by Eurypon , becometh tyrannical , be the Prince otherwise never so good a man .

Thus Caril●●s ( in whose Reign the Common-wealth was instituted by Lycurgus ) is generally affirmed to have been a good man , and yet said by Aristotle to have been a Tyrant ; It remaineth therefore with you to shew how a good man can otherwise be a Tyrant then by holding Monarchial Government without a sufficient ballance , or if you please ▪ how he that shall undertake the like ( be he never so good , or well deserving a man ) can be any other ; or confess that not the favour of Princes ( by which if they be well ballanced they lose nothing ) nor the usurpation of the people ( by which without a popular ballance they get nothing ) but the infirmity of the Monarchy , caused the Common-wealth of Lacedemon . And what less is said by Plutarch , or thus rendered by your self : Not the people only sent Messages to Lycurgus for his counsel , but the Kings were as desirous he should return from his travels , in hope that his presence would bridle and restrain the people ; but Lycurgus applyed not himself unto either , being resolved to frame both into one Common wealth .

To the form of this Common-wealth you say , That whatsoever the King lo●● , the people got little by this alteration , being left out of all employment in affairs of State , and forced to yeild obedience unto 30. Masters , whereas before they had but two : A strong affirmation , seeing the Oracle containing the Model of Lacedemon , is thus recorded by your Author . When thou hast devided the people into Tribes and Lineages , thou shalt establish the Senate , consisting with the two Kings , of thirty Senators , and assemble the people as there shall be occasion , where the Sena●e shall propose , and dismiss the people , without suffering them to debate . Now who seeth not , that the people having no right to debate , must therefore have had the right to resolve , or else were to be assembled for nothing ? But the ultimate result is the soveraign Power in every Government : It is true , the Greek of the Oracle is absolute and abstruce ; but then it is not only interpreted by Plutarch , in the sense I have given ; but by the verses of the Poet Tyrteus , which the Kings themselves , though they would have made other use of , acknowledged unto the people to be Authentique .

They having of Apollo sought , This Oracle from Delphos brought , Vnto the Spartan Kings , among The Senators , it doth belong To moderate in Royal Chairs , And give their votes in all Affairs ; And when they have proposed these , The people chuse what are they please .

Of many other testimonies , I shall add no more then one , out of Isocrates : I am not ignorant ( saith he to the Areopagites ) that the Lacedemonians flourish , for this cause especially , that their Government is popular . To the infirmity of this form , and the cure of it , you say , That the Royalty and power of pag. 45. the Kings being thus impaired , the people absolutely discharged from having any hand at all in publique Government , and the Authority of the Senate growing every day more insolent and predominant , by reason that ( albeit the Senators were elected by the people ) they had their places for tearm of life ; the Kings resolved upon a course of putting the people into such a condition , as might inable them to curb and controul the Senatours ) to which end they ordained the Ephori . Magistrates to be annually chosen out of the body of the people .

In which first you make that to be a practise of the Kings against the Senate , which by your Author is plain to have been a combination of the Kings and the Senate against the people ; for the people upon the insolency and predominancy of the Kings and the Senate , fell , as in that case , the inevitable nature of them , upon counsel how to defend themselves , and so assumed the power of debate . Hereupon the Kings Theopompus and Polidore would have added unto the tenour of the Oracle , that if the people went about by debate to change the propositions of the Senate , it should be lawful for the Kings and Senate to null the result of the people , which practise if it had past , must have made the Kings and the Senate altogether uncontroulable . Wherefore the people incensed at it , put a bitt into the mouth of the Senate by the institution of the Ephori . This is the clear sence of Plutarch which he taketh out of Plato , who affirmeth the de lege 3. Pol. l. 2. de leg. 31. Ephorate to have been set up against the Hereditary Power of the Kings , with whom agree both Aristotle and Cicero ; the former affirming in as much as the people have obtained it , were quiet , and the latter that the Ephori in Lacedemon were so opposed to the Kings , as the Tribunes in Rome to the Consuls . Now if other Authors attribute the institution of Ephori unto the Kings , and there be a story as well affirmed by Plutarch as others , that Theopompus having created the Ephori , and being told by his Queen , he had done that which would leave narrower power to his children , answered well , that it would leave narrower but longer . This is neither any riddle nor kind of contradiction to the former sense , seeing , when we say , that Hen. 3. instituted , the Parliament to be assistant to him in his Government , we do no more doubt of that then how it is to be understood , nor if his Queen had said , as she of Lacedemon , and our King had made the like answer , would that have altered any thing or proved the woman to have been ( as you well have it ) the better Prophet , seeing either Government lasted longer for either Reformation , nor came to alter , but through the alteration of the Ballance , which was nothing to the womans Prophecy .

The ruine of this Ballance , and corruption of the Common ▪ wealth you wholly omit , to the end , that picking up your objections against the Government in vigour . Out of the rubbish and dissolution of it , you may cast dust in mens eyes , or perswade them , that the Ephori trusting to the power and interest they had in the Commonalty , came to usurp upon the Kings , and to be Tyrants as they are called by Plato and Aristotle , so you affirm .

But the truth is thus recorded by Plutarch in the life of Agis . So soon as the Lacedemonians having ruined Athens , became so full of gold and silver , the Common-wealth began to break ; Nevertheless the lots and division of Lands made by Lycurgus yet remaining , the equality of the foundation held good till Epitadeus an ill natured fellow became Ephore , and having a mind to dis-inherit his son , got a Law to pass , whereby any man might dispose of his lot as he pleased : This by him pursued of meet malice to his son , was hurried on by the avarice of others whose riches came thus to eat the people out of their lands , that in a short time there remained not above an hundred Free holders in all Sparta . This he shews to have been the rise of the Oligarchy . The Oligarchy thus ballanced totally excluded the people , and murthered Agis the first King that was ever put to death by the Ephori , and to these times ( about which Plato and Aristotle lived ) relateth that tyranny which they who ( as was shown ) commended the Ephorate in the Common-wealth , now laid unto it in Oligarchy . Thus have you fetcht an argument against a Common-wealth that are nothing to it . Again , whereas Agis and Cleomenes , by the restitution of the lots of Lycurgus , were Asserters of popular power , you insinuate them to have been Asserters of Monarchy , such is your play with humane Authors , or as a Polititian : Now let us see , whether you have dealt any thing better with Scripture , or been more careful as a Divine . In order to this Discovery I shall repeat that piece of Calvin , which you call the stumbling block of disobedience . Calvin having preached obedience Cal. Just. l. c. 20. Sect. 31. to your good approbation , comes at length to this expression . But still I must be understood of private persons ; for if there be now any popular Officers ordained to moderate the licentiousness of Kings ( such as were the Ephori , set up of old against the Kings of Sparta . The Tribunes of the people against the Roman Consuls , and the Demarches against the Athenian State , of which perhaps a● the world now goes , they three estates are seized in each several Kingdom , when solemnly assembled ) so far am I from hindering them to put restraints upon the exorbitant power of Kings as their office binds them , that I conceive them rather to be guilty of perfidious dissimulation , if they connive at Kings when they play the Tyrants , or wantonly insult on the people ; in that so doing they betray the Liberty of the Subject , of which they know themselves to be made Guardians by Gods own Ordinance .

What Calvin says of the Athenian Demarches ( they having been Magistrates of another nature ) is a mistake , but such an one , as destroys no other part of his assertion , the rest of the Parenthesis , or that which he saith of the Ephori and the Tribunes , being confirmed , as hath been already shown , by Plato and Aristotle , by Cicero and Plutarch . Wherefore of the Ephori and the Tribunes enough ; Now why the Estates in a Gothick Moddel should be of less power , no Politician in the world shall ever shew a reason ; the Estates are such by vertue of their Estate , that is , of their over-ballance in Dominion : You are then either speculatively to shew , how the over-ballance of Dominion should not amount unto Empire , or practically , that the over-ballance of Dominion hath not amounted unto Empire , and that in a quiet Government , or can it be no otherwise in a quiet Government then that the over-ballance of Dominion must amount unto Empire . This principle being now sufficiently known is the cause it may be why you chuse in this place to speak rather like a Divine , as you suppose , then a Polititian , for you would fain learn , you say , of Calvin , in what part of the world we shall find any such Authority given to such popular Magistrates as he tells us of .

To which by the way I answer , that God founded the Israelitish Government upon a popular ballance , that we find the people of Israel judging the tribe of Benjamin , and by the Oracle of God levying War against them , which are acts of soveraign power , therefore a popular ballance even by the Ordinance Iudg. 20. of God himself expressed in scripture , amounted unto Empire .

But you ( when you have asked in what part of p. 29. the word of God we shall find any such Authority given to popular Magistrates ) Answer , Not in the Old Testament you are sure ; For when Moses first ordained the seventy Elders , it was not to diminish any part of that power which was invested in him , but to ease himselfe of some part of the burden lying upon him , as you will have to appear plainly by the 18th of Exodus , where Moses upon the advice of Jethro , chose able men out of all Israel , made them Rulers of thousands , Rulers of Hundreds , Rulers of fifties , Rulers of tens . Now I am sure that about this time , the number of these men of Israel was above 6 hundred thousand , and so any man may be sure that the Elders Num. 1. 46. thus chosen ( should we count but the Rulers of the thousands only ) must have come at the least to six hundred , wherefore you cannot be sure that this makes any thing to the election of the 70. Elders .

Well , But out of these ( say you ) God afterwards , in the 11th of Numb . willed Moses to chuse the seventy Elders .

You may do me a greater favour then you can suddenly imagine , to tell me really for what cause or upon what Authority your speech is so positive , that God willed Moses to chuse the seventy Elders out of those that were chosen in the 18. of Exodus ; for whereas Moses is willed to chuse them out of such as he knew to be Elders , such there were in Honour among the people , though not in power before the Election of those advised by Jethro , as appears , Exod. 3. 16 ▪ and 4. 29. But had this been as you would have it , what is the necessity , that because there lay an appeal unto Moses from those in Exodus ( that is from the Jethronian Elders , or Courts which sat afterwards in the Gates of the Temple , and of every City ) therefore there must needs lye an appeal from the seventy Elders , or the Sanhedrim unto Moses ; Especially while the whole stream of Jewish Writers , or Talmudists ( who should have had some knowledg in their own Commonwealth ) unanimously affirm that there was no such thing : whereupon to the Election of the former Elders , saith Grotius , In the place of these Gro. ad Ex. 18. 21. came the Judges in the Gates , and in the place of Moses , the Sanhedrim . Nor need we go further then the Scripture , for the certainty of the Assertion , where the seventy are chosen , not to stand under Moses , but with him not to diminish his burthen , or bear it under him with an appeal in difficult cases to him , as is expressed in the Election of the Jethronian Elders , but to bear the burden with Num. 21. him , and without any mention of such appeal . Moses before the Election of the Jethronian Judges , had the whole burthen of Judicature lying upon him , after their Election the burthen of the Appeals onely : Wherefore if the seventy Elders were indeed instituted to bear the burthen with Moses , there thenceforth lay noappeal unto Moses , which is yet clearer in this precept ; If there arise a matter of Controversie within thy Gates ( which is plainly addrest unto the Jethronian Courts ) too hard for thee in Judgement , then shalt thou come unto the Priest , and the Levite , ( by which in the sense of all Authors , Jewish and Christian , is understood the Sanhedrim , or to the Judge that shall be in those days ( the Suffes or Dictator ) and they shall shew thee the sentence of Deut. 17. 8. Judgement ; whence by the clear sense of Scripture , all matter of appeal in Israel lay unto the Sanhedrim . Your next Argument , that there must be nothing in all this but easing the supream Magistrate of some part of the burthen , which was before two heavy for him , without any diminution , in the least respect of his power , is that when God had taken of the spirit which was upon Moses , and put it upon the seventy Elders , the spirit yet rested upon Moses in as full a measure as it did at first : I grant in a fuller , for I believe his wisdom was the greater ; for this diminution of his power , it being through the nature of the ballance , apparently impossible that he could be any more then a Prince in a Commonwealth ; but your Argument can be of no force at all , unless you will have him to have been less wise , for not assuming soveraign power , where without confusion it was altogether impossible he should have held it . A Prince in a Commonwealth subsisteth by making himself , or being made use of unto the free course of Popurall Orders ; but a soveraign Lord can have no other substance or security , then by cutting off and tearing up all roots that do naturally shoot and spring up into such branches . To conclude , if the Congregation of the People , in law to be made , had such power as was shewn , and in the law , so made , the ultimate Appeal lay unto the Sanhedrim ; why are not here two Estates in this Commonwealth , each by Gods own Ordinance , and both plain in Scripture ? Well , but when they came ( you will say ) to make unto themselves Kings , what ever power they had formerly was now lost ; this at best were but to dispute from the folly of a people against an Ordinance of God , for what less is testified by himself in those words to Samuel , They have not rejected thee , but they have rejected me , that I should not raign over them . The Government of the Senate and the people , is that onely which is or can be the Government of Lawes . The Government of Lawes is that onely which is or can be the Government of God , and not of men . He that is for the Government of Lawes ; Arist. Pol. 3. c. 12. is for the Government of God ; and he that is for the Government of Man , is for the Government of a Beast . Kings no question , where the ballance is Monarchical , are of divine right , and if they be good , the gr●atest blessing , the Government , so standing , can be capable of : but the ballance being popular , as in Israel , in the Gretian , in the Scicilian Tyranny , they are the direst curse that can befall a Nation . Nor are Divines , who will alwaies have them to be of divine right , to be hearkened too , seeing they affirm that which is clean contrary to Scripture ; for in this case , saith Hosea , They have set up Kings , and Hos. 8. 4. not by me they have Princes , & I knew it not Pharoah may impose the making of Brick without the allowance of straw , but God never required of any men , or of any Government , that they should live otherwise then according to their Estates : It is true , if a Man want , make him a servant , there are rules in Scripture that enjoyn him the duty of a servant ; but shew me the rule in Scripture , that obligeth a man who can live of himself unto the duty of a servant . Hath God ▪ less regard unto a Nation then a man ? yet the people of Israel continuing upon a popular Agrarian , though God forewarned them , that by this means they would make themselves servants , would needs have a King ; whence saith the same Prophet , O Israel thou hast destroyed thy self , but in me is thine help , I will be thy King , ( which foretells the restitution of the Common-wealth ) Where is any other that may save thee in all thy Cities ? and thy Judges of whom thou saidst , give me a King and Princes ; I gave th●e a King in mine anger ( that is in Saul ) and I took him away in my wrath ( that is in the Captivity ) so at least saith Rabbi Bechai , with whom agreed Nachmony Gers●ho●e , and others . Kimchy it is true , and Maim●●ides are of opinion that the people making a King , displeased God not in the matter , but in the form onely , as if the root of a Tree , the ballance of a Government , were form onely and not matter ; nor do our Divines yet , who are divided into like parties , see more then the Rabbies : Both the Royalists and the Common ▪ wealths men of such sort , that is , whether Divines or Talmudists appeal unto the letter of the Law , which the Royalists ( as the translators of the Bible ) render thus , When they shall say , the Commonwealths men ( a● Diodatus ) thus ) If thou come to say ) I will set a King over me , like all the Nations that are about me , thou shalt in any wise set him King over the● , whom the Lord thy God shall chuse . The one party will have the Law to be positive , the other contingent , and with a mark of detestation upon it , for so where God speaketh of his peoples doing any thing , like the Nations that were about them , it is every where else understood ; but let these which are no niceties be as you will , who seeth not that to argue from this place , for the necessity of the King , is as if one from that foregoing should argue for the necessity of the Judges . The words are , these , Thou shall come unto the High Priest and to the Levite , ( which as was said was unto the Sanhedrim ) and ( that is or ) to the Judge that shall be in those dayes ; yet that the Judge not by any necessity implyed in these words , but through the meer folly of the people , came to be set up in Israel , is plain by Josephus , where he showes that the Israelites B● . 5. c. 2 laying by their Arms , and betaking themselves unto their pleasures , while they did not as God had commanded , root out the Canaanites from among them , but suffered them to dwell with them , suffered also the form of their Commonwealth to be corrupted , and the Senate to be broken , the Senators nor other solemn Magistrates being Elected as formerly , which both in word and fact is also confirmed by the Scripture : In words , as where it is thus written ; When Josuah had let the people go , ( that is , had dismissed the Army , and planted them upon their popular ballance ) the children of Israel went every man unto his inheritance to possess the Land , and the people served the Lord all the days of Josuah ▪ and all the days of the Elders that out lived Josuah , ( that is , while the Sanhedrim continued after him ; but when the Elders hereof came to dye , and the people elected them no successors ) they did evil in the sight of the Lord ( and having broken their civil Orders , forsook also their Religion , the Government whereof depended upon the Sanhedrim ) and served Baalim . And for the matter of fact included in these words , it farther appears , where Judah saith unto Simeon his brother , Come up with me into my lot , that we may fight against the Canaanites , and I Judg. 1. 3. likewise will go with thee into thy l●t ; so Simeon went with him . By which the Tribes leaguing at their pleasure one with another , it is plain , that the Sanhedrim their common ligament was broken : now except a Man shall say , that this neglect of Gods Ordinance was according unto the Law of God , there is no disputing from that Law to the necessity of the Judge , which hapned through no other then this Exigence ( quippe aut rex , quod abominandum , Pacuvi●● ap. Livi. lib. 23. aut quod unum liberae civitatis consilium est , Senatus habendus est ) wherefore the judge of Israel was not necessitated by the will of God , but foreseen onely by his providence , not imposed by the Law , but provided by it as expedient in case of necessity ; and if no more can be pleaded from the Law , for the Judge , against whom God never declared , much less is there to be pleaded from the same for the King , against whom he declared so often . There is nothing more clear nor certain in Scripture , then that the Commonwealth of Israel was instituted by God , the Judges and the King no otherwise then through the imprudence and impotency of the people ; But you who have no better name for the people in a Commonwealth , then the Rascal Rabble , will have Kings at a venture to be of Divine right , and to be absolute , where as in truth , if divine right be derived unto Kings from these of the Hebrews , onely it is most apparent that no absolute King can be of Divine right : For these Kings if they were such by the Law alledged , then by the same Law they could neither multiply Horses , nor wives , nor Silver , nor Gold , without which ●o King can Dan. 1. 7. be absolute ; but were to keep all the words of this Law , and these Statutes , and so by consequence were regulated Monarchs ; nay could of right Enact no Law , but as those by David , for the reduction of the Ark , for the regulation of the Priests , for the Election of Solomon , which were made by the suffrage of the people , no otherwise then those under the Kings of Rome , and ours under the late Monarchy , what then is attributed by Calvin unto popular Magistrates , that is not confirmed by Scripture and reason ? yet nothing will serve your turn , but to know what power there was in the Sanhedrim to controle their Kings ▪ to which I answer , that both Skickardus and Grotius , with the full consent of the Talmudists have assured you , that in case the King came to violate those Laws and Statutes , it was in the power of the Sanhedrim , to bring him unto corporal punishment . Moreover it is shewn by the latter out of Josephus , that Hircanus when he could De jure Blac. p. lib. 1. ch. 1. not deliver Hierom from the Sanhedrim by power , he did it by art : Nor is your evasion so good as that of Hircanus , while you having nothing to say to the contrary , but that Herod when he was question'd was no King , shuffle over the business without taking notice as to the point in controversie , that Hircanus who could not save Herod , from the question was King .

The manner of the restitution of the Sanhedrim made by Jehoshaphat , plainly shewes , that even under the Monarchy ▪ the power of the Sanhedrim was co-ordinate with that of the King , at least such is the judgement of the Iewish Writers ; for saith Grotius , the King ( as is rightly noted by the Talmudists ) was not to judge in some cases , and to this the words of Zedekiah seem to relate , whereto the Sanhedrim demanding the Prophet Jeremiah , he said , Behold he is in your hands , for the King is not Jer. 38. 5. he that can do any thing without you ; nor ( except David ) had ever any King Session or vote in this Councell : to which soon after he adds , that this Court contiued till Herod , the Great , whose insolency , when exalting it self more and more against the Law , the Senator had not in time as they ought , suppressed by their power , God punished them in such a manner for the neglect of their duty ; that they came all to be put to death , Herod except Sameae onely , whose foresight and frequent warning of this or the like calamity , they had as frequently contemned : In which words Grotius following the unanimous consent of the Talmudists ( if they knew any thing of their own orders ) expresly attributes , the same power unto the Sanhedrim , and chargeth them with the same dury in Israel , that is attributed unto the three Estates in a Gothick Moddel , and charged upon these by Calvin .

Thus that there never lay any appeal from the Sanhedrim unto Moses ( except when the Jews were in captivity ▪ or under provincial Government ) to any other Magistrate ; as also that they had power upon their Kings , being that your self say , I● the objection paramount , and which not answered , you confess that the three Estates convened in Parliament , or any other papular Magistrate Calvin dreams of , notwithstanding any discontinuance , or non-usage on p. 289 their parts , or any prescription , alledged by Kings to the contrary , may resume and exercise that authority which God hath given them , when ever they shall find a fit time for it . And this letter shewing plainly that you have in no wise answered this objection ; it remains that your whole Book ( even according to your own acknowledgement ) is confuted by this letter , Or if you be of another mind , I shall hope to hear further from you .

3. These are the very words of that you Letter to which an answer is required , though to no part thereof , but that which doth concern the Spartan Ephori , and the Iewish Sanhedrim , I can ( by any rules of disputation ) be required to answer the rest of your discourse , touching the balancing or over-balancing of such degrees and ranks of men , of which all Government ; consist , is utterly Extrinsecally and extravagant unto my design ; which was not to dispute the severall forms of Government , and in what the differences between them did most especially consist ; but onely to declare that neither the Spartan Ephori ; nor any such popular Magistrates as Calvin dreams of , had any authority originally invested in them to controul their Kings , much less to murder or depose them . Howsoever I shall not purposely pass by any thing , which by your self or any indifferent Reader shall be thought material , without giving you my judgement and opinion in it .

Some things ( you say ) I writ as a Polititian ( a silly one I am , God help me ) and some things as a Polititian , and divine too . And as a Polititian ▪ I am charged by you to have affirmed , that the Spartan Kings were as absolute Monarchs as any in those times , till Euripon the 3d. King of the Race of Hercules , and the 2d . King of the younger house , to procure the favour and good will of the Rascal rabble loosened the raigns of Government , and thereby much diminishing the Regall power . This I affirm indeed , and this you deny ; but you neither Answer my Authorities nor confute my Reasons ; my Authorities I derive from Plutarch first , who speaking of the said Euripon , whom he calleth Eurition affirms , that till his time the Government of Sparta was , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , sufficiently Monarchical , if it were not more . ( And secondly , from Aristotle , who calls the Government of Charilaus , the sixt King of that House ( who as you say was generally affirmed to be a good man ) by the name of a tyranny . And if it might be called a Tyranny then when the Regall power was under such a diminution by the folly of Euripon , there is no question to be made but that the Spartan Kings were absolute Monarchs before any such diminution had been made . To these two proofs you answer nothing , nor say you any thing at all in confutation of the Reason by me brought to prove it : Which is , That having acquired the Estate by conquest , and claiming by no other title then by that of Armies , there was no question to be made , but that they Governed in the way of absolute Monarchs ; it being not the guise of such as come in by conquest , to covessant and capitulate with their Subjects , but to impose their will for a Law upon them : This being the custome of all Kings who claim by conquest , it must belong to you to prove the contrary , and tell me why the Spartan Kings should not observe the same rule in the Acts of Government as all others did . Crowns which are purchased by the Sword seldome sit fast upon the head of the Conquerors , if they deliver up that Sword by which they were purchased : And therefore it was noted for a great error in Julius Cesar ( a man of greater parts and power then a King of Sparta ) to hope that he might hold that supream Authority by love of the people , which he got by force of Arms , and was so to hold it .

Against this you object , First , That the Spartan Kings could not be absolute , because they had a Nobility & Pe●ple to gratifie . But then you should have told us by what rule in Government , the Spartan Kings who preceded Eurypon , could be obliged to gratifie either the People or Nobility of that Country , which they had conquered by the Sword . And whereas you alledge in defence of Eurypon , That his letting loose the Reines of Government , to obtain favour with the people , was a confession of the infirmity of the Monarchy , and that his Action in so doing , was not so voluntary in it self , as unavoidable imprudence . It was indeed a plain confession of the infirmity of the Monarch , in not being able to hold the Kingdom in the same Estate , in which it had been held by his Father and Grand father : Of the infirmity of the Monarchy , that is to say , the form of Government by them established , and to which the Spartans formerly had been accustomed , I cannot think it to be any confession at all ; nor can I see how that imprudent Act of his , can be affirmed to have been unavoidable in point of prudence , by that which you produce from the words of Agis , the five and twentieth King of Sparta of the younger house , where he affirms , that a King of Sparta could never come to be equal unto any other King but only by introducing equality among the people . But first a King of Sparta might be as absolute in his own Dominions as any other King whatsoever of a larger Territory , with whom he could not be thought equal in power and Riches : The absoluteness or Autocraty of Kings ( if I may so call it ) depending not upon the greatness of their revenues , or extent of Empire , but only in their form of Government . And secondly , I would fain know how by the introducing an equality among the people , could render a poor King of Sparta equal to any other King , either of any greater power or larger Territory . It was not possible for Agis ( a● he said himself in his address unto his Mother ) se alios reges pecunia aquare posse , to equal other Kings in wealth and riches ; and therefore he resolved upon some exploit by which his name and reputation might grow great in the sight of the people ; and no exploit seemed in his eyes so probable to obtain that name and reputation which he aimed at , then by introducing equality among the people , which probably might make him a great King in the love and estimation of the common people ( for I must no longer call them the Rascal rabble ) though in no bodies else . Nor could the low condition of the Kings of Sparta impose any such necessity upon Eurypon to change the Government , as you say it did ; neither Eurypon nor any of his Successors encreasing either in power or riches , by the alteration ; and finally , whereas you seem to justifie this necessity by those words of Agis , in which he told his Mother , That a Servant or Lievtenant of Selinus or Ptolomey was worth more then ever were all the Kings of Sparta put together . First , Agis speaks not of any of the Lievtenants of those two Princes , who possibly might amass more treasures then all the Kings of Sparta had done before , but only of the Servants of those Leivtenants ; for it is Satraparum famuli , & servi Procuratorum , in the translation of Xyland , with which ( not having the Greek by me ) I content my self . And secondly , these words being spoken of the Servants of such Lievtenants , and of the Servants of such great Persons , which lived under either of those two Kings , must needs have more of Rhetorique in them then of real truth : For Agis did not only tell the people , when he came to put this project in execution , that he would devide amongst them his own Fields and Pastures , of which he had very many in his own possession ; but that he would deliver up ten thousand Talents , to be put into the common Treasury : And if this one King were so rich in Lands , and so stored with Money ( Dives agris , dives positis in soenore nummis ) it must be very strange to think that a Servant of any of the Princes , or Lievtenants of either of the said two Kings , should be worth more then all the Kings of Sparta , were they put together .

4. But here before we can proceed , I must clear my self from that Parenthesis of yours , in which you say , that I commonly call the people by the name of Rascal rabble , as in another place you tell me that I have no better name for them then that ; but I hope you do not , and I am sure you cannot gather out of any such words , that I bestow that title on the people generally , which either make up the main body of a Common wealth , or comprehend all sorts of people which are not in the Rank and order of titular Nobility . There is a great difference in the ellegancy and propriety of the Latine tongue , between Plebs and Populus , Populus signifying somtimes the agregative body of a State , as , Irasci populo Romano nemo sapienter potest , in the words of Livie . Somtimes all such of a State or Nation that are not in places of command , as , Senatus populusque Romanus , in the vulgar stile of Republick : But Plebs is of lower alloy , relating unto none but those of inferiour quality , as Laborers , Handicrafts , Artificers , which commonly make up the greatest part of a State or Nation , and yet pass under the account of the Rout or Rabble : And such are they of whom Aristotle telleth us in his Books of Politiques , That they are not only base or wicked Judges in their own Cases , and that many of them differ little from Beasts . You may do well to quarrel him for the one , or not me for the other .

5. In the next place you let us know , That the Monarchy that is or can be absolute , must be founded upon an Army planted by military Colonies upon the over balance of Land being in the Dominion of the Prince . And so far I concur in opinion with you , ( seeing it proved by late experience amongst our selves ) that no Prince can be an absolute Monarch without an Army ; that is to say without some standing Forces , to be ready at command upon all occasions . But then what reason have you to think that Aristodemus having conquered the Realm of Sparta , did not withal keep up his Army to secure the conquest , and that this Army or some other was not kept on foot , till the time of Euripon , who being either of weaker parts , or more apt to be wrought on , or else unwilling to be at the continual charge of paying an Army ; might suppose it an high point of Husbandry , to disband his Forces , and cast himself entirely on the love of the people . And secondly , Admitting that of the two former Kings , what reason can you give me why that Army should be planted in Colonies ; the territory of Sparta ( as you say your selfe ) being very narrow , and consequently not much room , nor any necessity at all for many such Colonies to be planted in it . A standing Army answerable to the extent of the Country , and the number of the old inhabitants , disposed of in their Summer Camp , and their Winter-Quarters , would have done the work , and done it with less charge and greater readiness , then dispersed in Colonies . And therefore when you say in such general terms , That the Monarchy that is or can be absolute , must be founded upon an Army planted by military Colonies upon the over balance of Land being in the Dominion of the Prince ; I must profess my self to differ in opinion from you . For then how could a Prince possessed of his Kingdom from a long descent of Royal Ancestors , and exercising absolute power upon his people , be said to be an an absolute Monarch , because his standing forces cannot be setled or disposed of in any such Colonies , upon the over balance of Land within his Dominion . In Countrys newly conquered , or farre remote fom the chief residence of the Prince , or the seat of the Empire , such Colonies have been thought necessary in the former Ages ; the wisdome of the Romans not finding out any better or more present way to serve their Conquest . But then such Colonies wanted not their inconveniencies , and may in time produce the different Effect from that which was expected of them . For being possessed of City , and indowed with Lands , and challenging a property in those Lands and Cities , they came in tract of time by intermariages and alliances to be all one with the old Natives of the Country , and stood as much upon their terms against the incroachments of those Princes under whom they served , and by whose Ancestors they were planted . A better Evidence whereof we can hardly find then in those English Colonies which were planted in Ireland at the first conquest of that Kingdom ; many of which by mutuall correspondency and alliances became so imbodied with the Irish that they degenerated at the last , from the manner and civility of the English Nation , and ( passing by the name of the English-Irish ) proved as rebellious ( if not more then the Irish themselves . What therefore hath been found defective in Colonies , in reference to the first intent of their plantation , the wisdome and experience of these last ages , have supplyed in Garisons : Which consisting for the most part of single persons , or otherwise living on their pay , and suddenly removed from one place to another , as the nature of the service leads them , are never suffered to stay long enough in any one Town by which they may have opportunity to unite themselves with those of the Neighbourhood or Corporation , in design and interess .

6. But for a further proof of your position , that is to say , that there can be no absolute Monarch who hath a Nobility and People to gratifie , you first instance in the Kings of France , which I as well as others , ( and others then as well as I ) do account for Absolute : But it is known ( say you ) That in the whole world there is not a Nobility ; nor a People , so frequently flying out , or taking Arms against their Princes , as the Nobility and People of France . This I acknowledge to be true , but affirm withall , that the frequent flyings out of that Nobility and People against their Kings , proceed not from any infirmity in the Monarchy , but from the stirring and busie nature of the French in general , who if they make not Wars abroad , will find work at home ; so that we may affirm of them as the Historian doth of the Ancient Spaniaras , Si foras hostem non habent , domi quaerunt . And this the wise Cardinal of Richelieu understood well enough , when having dismantled Tachel , reduced such Peers as remained in the hands of the Hugonets , and crusht the Faction of the Monsieur now Duke of Orleans , he presently engaged that King in a War with Spain ; that so the hot and fiery spirits of the French might be evaporated and consumed in a forrain War , which otherwise had they stayed at home , would ever and anon have inflamed the Kingdom . For otherwise that the Kings of France were Absolute Monarchs , there be many reasons to evince ; For first , his arbitrary Edicts over-rule the Laws , and dispose soveraignty of the chiefe concernments of the State , which by the Parliament of Paris , the supream Judicatory of that Kingdom ( and looked on as the chief supporter of the Rights and Liberties of the subject ) seldom or never are controled though disputed often . And if the Observation be true which we find in Justine , that in the Monarchies of the first ages , Abitria principum pro legibus erant be of any truth ; or if the Maxime which we find in Justinians Institutes , viz. Quod principi placuerit legis habet vigorem , be any badge or cognisance of an absolute Monarch ; the Kings of France may as well portend to such an absoluteness , as any of the Roman Emperours or preceding Monarchs ; ( ar ▪ tell est nostre plaisir , with which formal words he concludeth all his Royal Edicts , are as significant as that Maxime in Justinians Institutes , or the said observation which we find in Justine . Nor is his absolute power less visible in the raising of Moneys , then in the passing of his Edicts ; it being in his power without asking the consent of his people in Parliament , to levy such sums upon the subjects ( besides his Gabells , Aides , and accustomed Taxes ) as his Treasurers under-Treasurers , or other Officers of his Revenue shall impose upon them . From the patient bearing of which burthens , the King of France is commonly called Rex Asin●rum , or the King of Asses . Nor doth he want such standing Forces , as are sufficient to preserve his power and make good his actions ; it being conceived by some , and affirmed by others , that he is able to bring into the field for a sudden service , no less then sixty Companies of Men of Arms , twenty Cornets of light Horse , and five Companies of Harque Bushiers on Horse-Back , which amount to 10000 in the total , together with 20 Ensigns . of French Horse , and 40 of Swisses , and yet leave his Garisons well manned , and his Forts and Frontiers well and sufficiently defended . By all which laid together , it is clear and manifest , that the French Kings are absolute Monarchs , and that their Government is as sufficiently Dispotical as a man could wish ; the frequent flyings out of the Nobility and People , during the Minority of Lewis the 13th . and the omni-regency of his Mother ( for I think there be not many other instances of it ) being no sufficient argument to prove the contrary . And this you could not chuse , but see ( though it seems you will not ) when you tell us within few lines after , that the Government of France , for want of Gratifying the Nobility and People with such Lawes and Liberties as were sit for them , did become Tyrannical ; and if it be Tyrannical , it , must needs be absolute .

7. You instance secondly , in the rise and progress of the Norman li●e within this Kingdom , concerning which you first suppose that their Monarchy here was founded on a Nobility , or a Nobility and the People , that is to say ( for so I am to understand you ) upon the love and good affections of the Nobility and people of England : And secondly , that being so founded , they were to gratifie the Nobility , or the Nobility and the people with such Laws and Liberties as are fit for them ; or else there Government in this Land had become Tyrannical . But first the Monarchy of Normans was not founded here on the Nobility , and the people conjunct or separate . The greatest part of the Nobility , were either lost or forfeited at the battel of Hastins . And most of those that were not engaged in Battel , were either outed of their Estates , which were immediately distributed amongst the Normans , according to their several Ranks & qualities ; or forcedly to take them back on such terms and tenures , as the Conquerors was pleased to give them . And that he might make sure work with them , he compelled some of them to fly the Land , and wasted others in his Wars against the French ; so that the poor Remainders of them were both few in number , and inconsiderable in power . And then as for the common people , they were so bridled by his Souldiers Garisoned up and down in several Castles ( some old , and others of his own erection ) that they could never stir against him , but the Souldiers were presently on their backs ; and though disperst in several places , were ready to unite together upon all occasions . Nor staid he here but to prevent all practises and contrivances which might be hammered in the night ( which the eye of no humane providence could be able to see into or discover ) he commanded that no light or fire should be seen in any of their Houses after the ringing of a Bell at eight of the clock , called thence the Cover ▪ few , or the Cur ▪ few Bell , as it is called to this very day . Which rigorous courses were held also by the Kings succeeding , till there was no male Prince surviving of the Saxon race , and that King Henry● . had married a daughter of that line ; by means whereof the people seeing no hopes of bettering their condition in the change of time , became obedient to that yoke which was laid upon them , and looked upon their Kings of the House of Normandy as their natural Princes .

8. Nor is your inference better grounded then your suposition ; the Norman Kings not gratifying the Nobility and people wi●h such Laws and Liberties as were fit for them , for fear least otherwise the Government ( which ( you say ) we have known by experience , and no doubt was seen by Eurypon ) might be thought tyrannical . What you intend by these words ( we have known by experience ) as I am loth to understand , so I am not willing to enquire . What had been seen by Eurypon ( though you make no doubt of it ) I believe you know as little as I ; but what was practised by the Normans , I may perhaps know as much as you ; and if I know any thing of them and of their affairs , I must needs know this , that the first Norman Kings did never Court the Nobility or the people of England , by gratifying them with such Laws and Liberties as you speak of here , but governed them for the most part by the Grand Customeiur of the Normans , or in an arbitrary way , as to them seemed best : For though sometimes for quietness sake , they promised the abolishing of Dane gelt , and the restoring the Laws of King Edward the Confessor ; yet neither was the one abolished till the Raign of King Steven ( who came in upon a broken Title ) nor the other restored , though often promised , till the time of King John , and then extorted from him by force of Arms ; so that by this account , the Government of the first sinking of the Norman Race , must become Tyrannical , because they gratified not the people with such Laws and Liberties , as ( in your judgment ) were fit for them : For having gained the Magna Charta , with the other Charta de Foresta in the time of King John , and being frequently called to Parliaments by the Kings which followed , they had as much as they had reason to expect in those early days . Where by the way ( that I may lay all things together which relate to England ) I would fain know what ground you have for the position which you give us afterwards , that is to say , That King Henry 3. instituted his Parliament to be assistant to him in his Government . Our ancient Writers tell us , that Parliaments or Common Councils , consisting of the Prelates , Peers , and other great men of the Realm , were frequently held in the time of the Saxon Kings ; and that the Commons were first called to these great Assemblies at the Coronation of King Henry 1. to the end that his succession to the Crown being approved by the Nobility and People , he might have the better colour to exclude his Brother : And as the Parliament was not instituted by King Henry 3. so I would fain know of whom you learnt , that it was instituted by him , to be assistant to him in his Government , unless it were from some of the Declaration of the Commons in the late long Parliament , in which it is frequently affirmed , That the fundamental Government of this Realm was by King , Lords and Commons : For then what did become of the Government of this Kingdom under Henry 3. when he had no such Assistants joyned with him ; or what became of the foundation in the intervals of following Parliaments , when there was neither Lords nor Commons , on which the Government could be laid : And therefore it must be apparantly necessary , either that the Parliaments were not instituted by King Henry 3. to be his Assistants in the Government , and that the Lords and Commons were not a part of the foundation on which the Government is built ; or else that for the greatest space of time since King H. 3. the Kingdom hath bin under no Government at all for want of such Assistants , and such a Principal part of the fundamentals as you speak of there . The Government of such times must be in obeysance at the least , as our Lawyers phrase it .

But because you make your Proposition in Geneneral terms , and use the rise and progress of the Norman line , for an instance onely : I would fain learn who should be Judge , touching the fitness or unfitness of such Laws and Liberties , by which the people , or the Nobility and the People , are to be gratified by their Kings . For if the Kings themselves must judge it , it is not like that they will part with any of their just prerogatives , which might make them less obeyed at home , and lesser feared abroad ; but where invincible necessity , or violent importunity might force them to it . And then the Laws and Liberties which were so extorted , were either violated or anulled , whensoever the Granter was in power to weaken , or make void the grant ; for malus diuturnitatis est custos metus , as you know who said , But if the people must be judges of such laws and liberties as were fittest for them , there would be no end of their demands , reasonable in their own nature , and in number infinite . For when they meet with a King of the giving hand , they will press him so to give from one point to another , till he give away Royalty it self ; and if they be not satisfied in all their askings , they will be pleased with none of his former Grants .

9. But you go on , and having told us that in such cases , as before , the Government becomes tyrannical , be the Prince otherwise never so good a man , you prove it , first by instancing in Carilaus , King of Sparta , in whose raign the Common-wealth was instituted by Licurgus , who is generally affirmed to have been a good man ▪ and yet is said by Aristotle , to have been a Tyrant , and then conclude , that it remaines with me to shew how a good man can otherwise be a Tyrant then by holding Monarchicall Government , without a sufficient balance . But certainly no such thing remains to be shown by me , there being no occasion given you to require it of me , in the Book against Calvin ( by which name you call it ) which your letter undertakes to answer . The difference between us is , whether the Ephory were ordained by the Kings of Sparta , to curb the Senate , or by the people to oppose and controul their Kings ; of which hitherto you have said nothing ; If you put an hundred questions on the by , I am not bound by any rule of Disputation to make answer to them , or so much as to any one of them as it comes in my way . But in this point I shall not leave you without satisfaction , In order whereunto you may do well to call to mind , that the word Tyrant at the first was used to signifie a just and lawfull King ( qui postquam tecta Tyranni intravere sui , as we find in Ovid ) though afterwards more frequently used to signifie such Princes onely , who having supprest the popular Government , in some Cities of Greece , assumed the power unto themselves , or otherwise rerestrained the people from running in to such disorder to which they had formerly been accustomed , but at the last to signifie such merciless men , who having unjustly gained the supream Authority by blood and violence , continued in the same with the like cruelty and injustice . Thus in the second sence and signification of the word , we find mention of the Tyrants of Syracuse , ( though some of them were just and moderate Princes ) as also of Nabis the Tyrant of Lacedemon , of Alexander the Tyrant of Pherae ; And finally the 30. Magistrates which were sent from Sparta , to govern the affairs of Athens ( which was before the most Popular and Democratical Government that ever was ) are best known by the name of the 30. Tyrants till this present time . And in this second sence of the word , the Government of Carilaus , is by Aristotle said to be a Tyranny , not because he supprest any popular Government , which had before been setled in Lacedemon , but because he restrained the people from having their own wills as before they had in the time of some of his predecessors , or from living under such an Anarchy as they most desired . And in this sence and signification of the word , any good Prince may be called a Tyrant , if he gratifie not his people , or his Nobility and People with such Laws and Liberties as they conceived to be fittest for them ; or shall endeavour to retain so much of that soveraign power , derived upon him by a long descent of Royal Ancestors , by which he may be able to defend and protect his subjects . But when you press me to this point , that if I do not grant the former , I must needs confess , that not the favour of the Princes , nor the usurpation of the People , but the infirmity of the Monarchy caused the Commonwealth of Lacedemon , I shall in part confess it , and in part deny it . For I shall willingly confess that the infirmity of the Monarchy might occasion the institution of the Commonwealth , looking upon the Monarchy , as it was broken and unsetled during the raign of Carilaus ; and yet shall absolutely deny that there was any such infirmity or insufficiency in the Monarchy , till the reins of Government were let loose by the folly of Euripon .

10 More then this is not said by Plutarch , where he tells us that both Kings & People agreed upon the calling home of Licurgus , for remedying such disorders as were grown amongst them . And less is not said by Plutarch then is said by me , where I affirm that whatsoever the Kings lost , the people got nothing by the alteration , as being left out of all imployments in affairs of State , and having thirty Masters instead of two , which you pronounce to be a strange Affirmation , because , say you , it was ordered by the Oracle , that when the people were assembled . The Senate should propose and dismiss the people without suffering them to debate ; and if they were not suffered to debate such businesses as were propounded by the Senate , what other imployment could be left them in affairs of State , praeter obsequii gloriam , besides the Reputation of obedient Citizens : But for this sore you have a plaister , and tell us that if the people had had no right to debate , they must therefore have had the right to resolve , or elsewhere to be assembled for nothing . It may be neither so nor so , but that the common people of Sparta were called unto the publick assemblies , as the Commons of England were antiently and originally summoned to the Court of Parliament , that is to say , Ad consentiendum , & faciendum to give consent and yield obedience to those Lawes and Ordinances , which by the Great Council of the Peers and Prelates ( de communi consilio regni nostri ) as the Writ still runneth ) should be concluded and agreed on . So that you might have spared the Oracle , and Plutarchs Explication of it , or the destant of Tyrteus upon the same ; unless you could conclude from any of them , or from altogether , that the people of Sparta were possessed of a negative voice , and therewith of a power to frustrate the proceedings of the Kings and Senate , which if they had , the ultimate Result ( as you truly say ) and consequently the soveraign power in Government must remain in them : And then the Government of Sparta , had been as meerly Popular and Democratical , as of most other Cities in Greece ; but by no means to be accounted for an Aristocratie , by which name Aristotle himselfe , and most of our great Masters in the Schools of Politie do most commonly call it . And therefore when Isocrates saith , ( as here cited by you ) that the Lacedemonians flourish'd for this cause especially that their Government is Popular . The word ( Popular ) is not to be understood in the stricter sence , as differing the Government from that which they called an Aristocratie , consisting of some part of the people , though the wealthier , better , and more understanding men amongst them , but as it did distinguish them from the Regall or Monarchical Government in which neither the whole body of the People , nor any of the better , wealthier , and more sober men could pretend a share .

11. And now at last you come to the institution of the Ephori , affirmed by me ( and I had Plutarch for my Author ) to be ordained by Theopompus the 9th . King of the second House ( with the consent of Polydorus his Colleague ) to curb the insolencies of the Senate , in which ( you say ) that I make that to be a practise of the Kings against the Senate which by your Author is plain to have been a combination of the Kings , and the Senate against the people : If so , my Author must contradict himself , I am sure of that , For positively , he ascribes the institution of the Ephori to no other end but the controlling of the Senate , nor unto any other person or persons , then to Theopompus , as out of my Book against Calvin , you relate the story : That which you tell us out of Plutarch in another place , is told by Plutarch upon another occasion ; which was indeed a combination of the Kings and Senate against the people , and a just one too . For as your self relates the passage out of Plutarch , the people upon the insolency and predominancy of the Kings and the Senate fell upon councel how to defend themselves , and so assum'd the power of Debate ; and that hereupon the Kings Theopompus and Polydore would have added unto the tenour of the Oracle ; that if the people went about by debate to change the Propositions of the Senate , it should be lawful for the Kings and the Senate to null the Result of the people . This I acknowledg to be true . But this makes nothing to the institution of the Ephori , of which Plutarch speaks nothing in that place , though he did soon after . But whereas you subjoyn that the people incensed at the practise , put a bit into the mouth of the Senate by the institution of the Ephori , you make therein a grosser addition to the words of Plutarch , then the two Kings and the Senate did to the words of the Oracle : And then whereas you tell us out of Plato , that the Ephorate was set up against the haereditary power of the Kings ; you either do mistake your Author , or else must make him contradict himself as much in this place , as you did Plutarch in the other : Plato affirming in the place which you find cited in the Margin of the Book , against Calvin , ( so you please to call it ) that Lycurgus did not onely ordain the Senate , but that he did also constitute the Ephorate for the strength and preservation of the Regal power . But granting , that it may be said by Plato in his 3 de legibus ( as you cite the place ) that the Ephorate was set up against the Hereditary power of Kings ; what reason have you to believe , but that Plato might as well be mistaken in the end and purpose , for which the Ephori were ordained , as in the first Author of that institution , which he makes to be Lycurgus himself , contrary to Aristotle , Plutarch , and all other writers . And finally , whereas you tell us , That Cicero ( agreeing in this point with Plato ) hath affirmed , that the Ephori in Lacedemon were so opposite to the Kings , as the Tribune in Rome to the Consuls : You make therein an Argument against your self ; and I prove it thus . As the Tribunes of Rome were first ordained to oppose the Consuls , so were the Ephori of Sparta instituted to oppose the Kings ; but the Tribunes of Rome were not ordained at first to oppose the Kings , but only to interpose in behalf of the people ; therefore the Ephori of Sparta were not instituted to oppose the Kings .

12. The conference between Theopompus and his Queen , touching his unadvisedness in ordaining these popular Officers , and that which might ensue upon it , you relate them no otherwise then I do ; but that you slight the womans foresight into business , as not worth the noting ; indeed it had not been worth the noting , if she had reproved that in the King , which was the fact of the people only : nor have you made any Answer to the other two Arguments , by which I prove that the Ephori were instituted by the Kings , and by none but them ; which might make a credulous man believe , that they are unanswerable , because unanswered : And therefore being of such weight , I shall add nothing to them , to make them more weightier then they be , but an explication of the second : That second Argument I derive from the words of Cleomenes ( as they stand in Plutarch ) in which he lets the people know , that one reason why the Ephori were instituted by the former Kings , was , that the Kings being ingaged in forreign wars , might have some certain friends to sit in judgment in their stead , whom they called Ephori . And hereupon I may very well infer thus much , That if the people had first instituted this Ephori ( as you say they did ) they would have chosen them out of such of their own number whom they might confide in ; and not have chosen them out of those , who being the Kings especial friends , must have a different interest from that of the people .

13. Your discourse about the Ephori drawing towards an end , you charge me with omitting as well the ruine of the Ballance , as the corruption of the Common wealth , which did thence arise ; and you charge it on me to this purpose , That picking up my objections against the Government in vigor , out of the rubbish and dissolution of it , I may cast oust in m●ns eyes . or perswade them that the Ephori ( trusting to the power or interest they had in the Commonalty ) came to usurp upon the Kings , and to be Tyrants , as th●y are called by Plato and Aristotle . The first of which two charges is against all Reason ; for why should I be charged with omitting that which was extrinsecal unto my project and design , it being no part of my intent , to take notice of the several changes and corruptions in the State of Sparta ; but only of the institution of the Ephori , their insolencies towards their King , and their final ruine . And the other of these charges is against all truth ; for how doth it appear , or possibly can be made apparent , that I have used any Article for casting dust into mens eyes , the better to perswade them to give credit to any thing which may serve my turn ; when I have said nothing in all this business about the Ephori , but what is justified by the Authority of the most famous States-men , and renowned Writers , who have committed to our knowledge , the true condition of Affairs in that Common-wealth ; so that you might have spared the story of Hipitadeus , the selling of his lot or his portion of Lands , contrary to the Laws of Lycurgus ; the following of that bad example by other men , and the reducing of all the Free-holders in that Common-wealth , to the number of 100. only , unless you had found any thing in that Book of mine , which had sounded contrary unto it : But whereas you infer in that which followeth , That the ingrossing the Lands of that Common wealth into such few hands , altered the Government into an Oligarchy , that by this it was no Oligarchy that Agis was murthered , and that in reference to this Oligarchy , Plato and Aristotle called the Government of Sparta by the name of Tyranny ; in all these things you may be said to cast dust into the eyes of the Readers , that they may not see the light of truth : For certainly the Government of the State of Sparta , consisting in the Kings and Senate , remained only as it was before by the Laws of Lycurgus ( the superinduction of the Ephori being added to it ) not altered any thing at all , by the ingrossing of the Lands of that Common-wealth into those few hands : Nor was it by the Authority of those ingrossers ( whom you call the Oligarchy ) though possible enough at their instigation , that Agis was murthered by the Ephori : nor was it finally in relation to these Ingrossers that the Government of Sparta was called a tyranny ( there was no reason why it should ) both by Plato and Aristotle ; but only in reference to the unparaleld cruelties and abominable insolencies of the Ephori , committed on and against their Kings ; it being said by Aristotle in as plain tearms as may be 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , that the Ephorate ( and not the Oligarchy of Ingrossers ) was an absolute Tyranny . Thus have you fetcht Arguments against an Oligarchy in the State of Sparta , which you find not in it : And for the close of all , you say , That whereas Agis and Cleomenes , by the restitution of the Lots of Licurgus , were assertors of popular power , they are insinuated by me , to have been assertors of Monarchy . But first , the restitution of the Lots of Licurgus , by the industry and endeavours of those two Kings , improved not at all the power of the people , who were still kept under as before , but only reduced them unto that equality in respect of Riches , which might secure them from being trampled on , and insulted over by their fellow Commoners . And secondly , it appears by Plutarch , that the designe of those two Kings in that restitution , was to get glory to the one , and preservation to the other ; which could not be effected , but by gaining the good will of the common people , and make them sure unto their side , whensoever they should be ready for that great design of destroying the Ephori . And so much in Answer to that part of your Letter , which concerns the rise , insolencies , and destruction of those popular Villains , which Calvin makes his first example for opposing Kings .

14. Such being my play ( no foul play I am sure ) with humane Authors , or as a Polititian ; you will next show me whither I have dealt better with the Scripture , or been more carefull as a Divine : But first you must look backwards upon somwhat which was said before . And having laid down the words of Calvin , which occasioned this discourse between us . you cannot but confess that what he saith of Demarchy of Athens , is a plain mistake , they being officers ( as you truly say ) of another nature ; and then why he may not be as much mistaken in the Spartan Ephori , and the Roman Tribunes , as in the Athenian Demarchy you can show no reason . For if he be of a fallible spirit in one point , he can be infallible in none . Which mistake , notwithstanding it betrayes his ignorance in the Greek Antiquities , you tell us not to be such an one , as destroyes no other part of his Assertion .

First , The supereminent Authority of the Ephori over the Kings , & of the Tribunes over their Consuls , standing good however : The contrary whereof ( to use your own words ) hath been already proved by Plato , Aristotle , and Plutarch , though you would willingly perswade the Reader that they speak for you . Which said , you put me to it once again as a Polititian , and tell me that no Polititian in the world can show a re●son , Why the Estates in a Gothick Moddel , should be of less power then either the Spartan , Ephori , or the Roman Tribunes . So much I shall be willing to grant , that the Estates in a Gothick Moddel , have as much power in the publick Government , and over the persons of their Kings ; as the Ephori had over their Kings , and the Tribunes over their Consuls , at their first institution . But that they had the like power in either case , as the Ephori and the Tribunes exercised by violence and usurpation in their severall Cities , no Polititian in the world can be able to show me . And this we may the better see by looking on their power in matters which concern the publique , in the Realm of Spaine ; the Kings and people whereof ( those of Portugal excepted onely ) are of Gothick race , and therefore likely to retain most of the Gothick Moddels : And looking on it , we shall find first , that their Curias or General conventions consist there ( as in other places ) of the three Estates , Prelate , Peer , and People .

And secondly , that though the Government of that King , be not so Arbitrary Despotical as it is in France ; yet , he both rules and manageth those Conventions to his own contentment . For neither can they meet together but by his appointment ; nor are their acts and consultations of any effect , further then as they are confirmed by the Kings consent ; nor finally can they sit any longer , or depart any sooner , then as it may stand most with the Kings conveniency . But Bodin goes a little further . And having showed us with what Reverence and Devotion , the the three Estates of France addressed themselves to Charles the 8th . in a convention held at Tours , ( at what time the Authority of the Assemblies was greater and more eminent then it hath been since ) affirms expresly , Majorem etiam Obedientiam & majus obsequium Hispanorum regi Exhiberi . The King of Spain hath more obedience and observance from his three Estates , then that which was afforded to the King of France . The General conventions of both Kingdoms being much alike , may seem to have been cast in the same mould ( for the French neighbouring the Goths , who then possest those Provinces in the Realm of France which lie on the west side of the Loire , could not but know the manner of those Assemblies which Charles Martel thought good to introduce , and settle in the Realm of France , that giving them some influence in the publick Government , and binding them unto him by so great a favour , he might make use of their Authority to preserve his own , as his Son Pepin after did to obtain the Crown . But that the. Assembly of Estates in either Kingdom did take upon them to fine , imprison , or to depose or murder any of their Kings , as the Tribunes sometimes did the Consuls , and the Ephori did the Kings of Sparta , you cannot easily prove out of all their stories .

15. But you go on ( and tell me first , that the estates in a Gothish Moddel , are such by virtue of their estates , that is of their over ballance in dominion ; and then you put it upon me to show both why the over ballance in dominion should not amount to Empire , and practically that it amounteth not to Empire in quiet and well governed times . But this , by your leave , is a strange way of Disputation , by cutting out what ●work you please , and sending it to me to make it up as well as I can : But being sent to me , I am bound to dispatch it out of hand for your satisfaction .

I say then first , that the Estates in a Gothish Moddel , are not such by virtue of their Estates , that is to say , by being above the rest of the people in titles of Honour and Revenue , which you call an over ballance in Dominion . For were it so , they were of power to exercise the same Authority , as you suppose the Tribunes and the Ephori to have done before them in all times alike , and not when they are called together by the Kings command . For being Masters of their Estates , as well out of as in those Generall Assemblies and Conventions , and consequently in all times alike ; what reason can you show me that they should make no use of that Power which belongs to them in right of their Estates , but in those General Assemblies and Conventions onely .

Secondly , If they have that power by virtue of their Estates , and yet cannot exercise , but in such Conventions ; how doth it come to pass that such Conventions are not of their own appointment , but onely at the pleasure and command of their several Kings ?

And Thirdly , If they hold and enjoy that Power by virtue of their said Estates , you may do well to show some reason , why all that are above the rest of the people in Titles of Honour and Revenue , should not be called to those assembly of Estates , but onely some few out of every Order , ( as in France and Spain ) to represent the rest of their several Orders : For being equal or somewhat near to an equality with one another in Estates and Honours , those which were pretermitted have the greater wrong , in not being suffered to make use of that natural power which their over balance in dominion hath conferred upon them . And then I would be glad to right whether this over ballance in Dominion be ascribed unto them , in reference to the King or the common people : If in relation to the King , you put the King into no better condition then any one of his subjects by making him accomptable to so many Masters ; who may say to him whensoever they shall meet together , Redde rationem villicationis tuae , and tell him plainly , That he must give up an account of his stewardship , for he shall be no longer steward . And then have Kings done very ill in raising so many of their subjects to so great a Power , and calling them together to make use of that power , which they may make use of if they please to his destruction . And if they have this over-ballance of Dominion , in reference onely to the common people , above whom they are raised in Estates and Honours ; what then becomes of that natural liberty of Mankind , that underived Majesty of the common people which our great Masters in the School of Politie have so much cryed up . The people must needs take it as ill as the King , to be deprived of their natural Liberty , without giving their consent unto it , or to be deposed from that Majesty which is inherent in themselves , without deriving it from any but their first Creator . But on the other side , if the three Estates in a Gothick Moddel , receive that power , which they enjoy in those Conventions either from the hands of the King , as the Lords Spiritual and Temporal ( which make up two of the three Estates ) did here in England , or from the hands of the People , as the 3d. Estate have done in all Kingdoms else , ( which is the generall opinion and practise of all Nations too ) you must stand single by your self in telling me that they have that power by virtue of those Estates which they are possest of . And this may also serve to show you , that an over ballance in Dominion , or the greatness of Estate which some subjects have above the rest , amounteth not to such an Empire as may give them any power over Prince or people , unless it can be showed as I think it cannot , that the King doth not over ballance them in the point of Dominion , as they do the rest of their fellow subjects , or that the whole body of the people cannot as well pretend to Dominion over themselves , as any of their fellow-subjects can pretend to have over them : And then if this Dominion do amount to an Empire also , we shall have three Empires in one Kingdom ; that is to say , the King , the three Estates , and the Common people .

I must confess , I have not weigh'd all Orders and degrees of men in so even a scale as to resolve which of them ballanceth , counter-ballanceth , or over-ballanceth the other ; which must be various and uncertain , according to the Lawes of severall Countrys , and the different constitutions of their several Governments . And I conceive it altogether as impossible to make a new Garment for the Moon , which may as well fit her in the full , as in her wainings and increasings ; as to accommodate these Metaphisical speculations to the rules of Government , which varying in all places must have different forms : And having different forms , must have different ballances according to the Lawes and constitutions of each several Country . And yet I am not altogether so dimme sighted as not to see what these new Notions ( which otherwise indeed would prove new Nothings ) do most chiefly aim at ; the chief design of many of the late Discourses , being apparently no other then to put the supream Government into the hands of the common people , or at least into the hands of those whom they shall chuse for their Trustees and Representors ; which if it could be once effected , the underived Majesty of the common people would not appear so visibly in any one person whatsoever , as in those Trustees and Representors , and then the King or supream Magistrate being thus out shined , would seem no other then a Star of the lesser Magnitude , which though moving in an higher sphere , should neither give the light nor impart such influences to the world , as the two Great Luminaries ( such as you fancy the Estates in a Gothick Moddel ) in case he prove not rather a falling Star , as perhaps he may . But hoping you will pardon this irruption in me , I proceed unto the second part of your Letter , in which I am said to speak rather like a Divine then a Polititian : And yet not like a Divine neither , but like a Divine as I suppose , and no more then so .

17. But letting all things be as they may , you tell me that I aske of Calvin , in what part of the word of God we may finde any such Authority given to popular Magistrates as he tells us of . And for an answer hereunto , you prepare the way by laying down the constitution of the Government of the people of Israel , which you affirm to have been founded on a popular ballance . And were it so , there is no question to be made , but that a popular ballance even by the Ordinance of God himself in Scripture , both did and may amount to Empire ; for who ●rt thou O man , which disputest with God , or callest in question any of the Divine Acts of that heavenly providence . The Question will be onely this , Whether the Government of the Israelites was founded in a popular ballance , which you say it was , and I think rather that it was not : The reason why I think so I shall show anon , and in the mean time I will look upon the Argument which you suppose it to be proved , We find ( say you ) the people of Israel iudging the tribe of Benjamine , and by the Oracle of God leavying War against them ; Which being an act of soveraign power , declares that Government to be founded on a popular ballance . But first , it appears not by the text , that all the people of Israel did sit as Judges on the tribe of Benjamine , the judgement might be passed ( for what you can say to the contrary ) by the Elders onely , that is to say , the heads or chiefs of the several families of the tribes of Israel ; and nothing but the execution of the sentences by them committed to the people .

Secondly , It appears not by the Text , that the War was leavied against the Benjamites by any Oracle of God , but the contrary rather ; For it is said , that the children of Israel were gathered tother as one man , at a place called Mizpeh , that they resolved upon the War , and concluded how to have it carried before they asked Councel of the Lord , Judg. 20. 18. And when they asked councel of the Lord , it was not whether they should proceed in the War or not , ( that being a thing resolved before hand ) but which of the tribes should go up first to the battail again the children of Benjamin , as in the Book of Judges , Cap 20. 18. which probably might be the cause of their ill success in the first encounter , as having engaged themselves in a bloody War against their brethren , before they sought for councel at the Oracle of God , as they should have done . And therefore , Thirdly , this rather showes the people of Israel to be under no Government at all , then to be governed by a Democratical or popular form ; and serves as a most excellent commentary on the last words of the book of Judges , viz: In those dayes there was no King in Israel : every Man did that which was right in his own eyes . Had it been under any one form of Government ; ( Popular or Democratical , call it what you will ) every man durst not to have done that which is right in his own eyes , though there had been at that time no King in Israel . And as they were not under any popular Government , by which they might have been restrained from doing what was right in their own eyes ; so you confess that they were not at that time under the Government of the Sanhedrim ; for speaking of that passage in the first of Judges , where Judah said unto Simeon 〈◊〉 Brother , come up with me into my lot , that we may fight against the Canaanites and I likewise will go with thee into thy lot , so Simeon went with him , &c. you thereupon infer , that by this leaguing at their pleasure one with another , it was plain the Sanhedrim , their common Ligament was broken , so that the Sanhedrim being broken , the Kings not instituted , nor any form of popular Government set up among them by common consent ; nothing remains , but that they must be governed by the Heads or Chiefs of the several Families into which the Tribes were Generally divided in those times . Had there been any such Councel , or establisht body , as that of the Generall Estates of the united Provinces ; or that of the Cantons and their Confederates amongst the Switzers , they might have been said to have been under such a popular Government as those people are , though every Tribe had a distinct Government of its own , as those Provinces and Cantons have .

18. And here I should proceed to the Examination of that part of your Letter which concerns the Sanhedrim , as being the point of greatest difference between us in the present business . But considering that you have spent so much of your Paper , about the Original institution and authority of the Kings of Israel , and consequently of all those who have enjoyed that power and dignity in their severall Countrys ; I shall first lay all together which you have deliver'd on that subject , with my opinion in the same as it comes before me . In order whereunto , I am first to say , that the Government of that people , when they were in Aegypt , was under the Heads or Chiefes of their several families , who by a paternal right derived on them from their first Father Adam , challenged and enjoy'd a Fatherly authority over all those who descended of them : And unto these did Moses address himselfe , when he was to communicate from the Lord that most joyful news of their deliverance out of Aegypt , called by the name of Elders in the Book of Exodus , 3. 16. & 4. 29 not called so onely , because they were in honour onely amongst the rest of the people ▪ ( as you seem to say ) but because they were above them also in this point of power . The people else had had no remedy in any differences and debates which might rise amongst them , but suing in the Courts of Aegypt ; which it was as unfit for them to do , as it was amongst the Primitive Christians , to go to Law with one another in Emergent differences , and that before the unbelievers . But this dispersed authority being united in the person of Moses , ( as many lines united in one Center from a large circumference ) the whole Government of the people did remain in him till by the advice of Jethro , they were divided and sub ▪ divided into several Companies . Each of them having over him their appointed Rulers ; By Gods appointment afterwards , a standing Court of 70. Elders , which they called the Sanhedrim , were chosen to bear part of the publick Government ( but whether chosen out of the Jethronian Judges or not , we shall see anon ) Moses being dead , and Josuah who succeeded in the supream Authority , being also gathered by his Fathers , the authority of the Sanhedrim dying also with them , as your self confesseth ; the Ordinary Government returned again to the heads of the several Families , as before in Aegypt , the extraordinary being vested in those several Judges , whom God raised up from time to time , to free them from the power of those cruel Enemies , from whose Tyranny they were not able otherwise to have freed themselves . And in this state they stood till the time of Samuel , when being vexed by the Philistines with con●inual Wars , the Ark of God was taken not long before , and their condition no less miserable under the times of Samuel , then it was at the worst , they desire to have a King to fight their Battails , and to go in and out before them , like to other Nations . And that their future King might settle on the surer foundation , he had not only the approbation of the Lord , 1 Sam. 8. 22. and the acclamations of the people , chap 10. v. 24. but the Heads and Chief● of the several Families devolved their whole power upon him ; the motion being made to Samuel by the Elders of the people , aswell in their own names , as in the names of all the rest of the Tribes , as appears , 1 Sam. 8. 4.

19. Before this time , that is to say , after the deaths of Moses and Joshua ( who were Kings in fact , though not in title ) the Israelites had no King to Raign over them but the Lord himself ; from whom they first received their Laws , from whose mouth they received direction in all cases of difficulty , and from whose hands they received protection in all times of danger : And when they had any visible Judge or supream Governour , God did not only raign in their persons , in regard of that immediate vocation which they had from him ; but also of the gifts of the Spirit , and the co-operation of his Grace and Power : In which respect , the Government of the Israelites , during that interval of time , is called by many learned Writers , by the name of Theocratie , or the immediate Government of the Lord himself : And this the Lord himself not obscurely intimates , when he said to Samuel , They have not rejected thee , but they have rejected me , ne regnem super eos , that I should not raign over them . I know the general stream of Writers , do understand these words as words of dislike and indignation , in that the people seemed to be weary of his Government , in their desire of having a King , like to other Nations ; but I conceive ( with all due reverence unto those who opine the contrary ) that God spake these words rather to comfort Samuel , whom he found much displeased and troubled at the Proposition of the Elders , as if a greater injury had been offered to himself , then was done to the Prophet ; then out of any dislike which he had of the matter : For if he had disliked the matter , that is , that they should have a King like other Nations ; he neither would have fore signified it as a blessing on the seed of Abraham , Gen. 17. or as prerogative of Judah , Gen. 49. nor have foretold the people , that when they should desire a King , they should set him to be King over them , whom the Lord their God shall chuse , Deut. 17. nor would he have commanded Samuel to give them a King as they desired , nor have directed him particularly to that very man whom he had designed for the Kingdom . But on the contrary say you , we find it otherwise in the Prophet Hosea , where the Lord said unto the people , That he had given them a King in his anger ( that is ( as you affirm ) in Saul ) and that he took him away in his wrath ( that is ( say you ) in the Captivity ) Hos. 13. 11. And to this purpose you alledge another passage in the same Prophet , ch. 8. v. 4. where it is said , They have set up Kings , and not by me ; they have made Princes and I knew it not : But for all this , your explication of the one Text , and your application of the other , are alike erroneous . The Prophet Hosea lived in the time of Jerohoam , son of Joah , King of Israel , and directed the words of his Prophesy to the people chiefly , as they were separated and abstracted from the Realm of Israel . And first , beginning with the last , it appears plainly by the verse foregoing , that the words by you cited , are addressed particularly to the house of Israel ; and it had been hard dealing in the Prophet , to charge the ten Tribes with setting up of Kings , but not by him , had it been so understood of Saul , as you say it was ; when it was the fault ( if it were a fault ) of all the twelve ; and therefore saith S. Hierome , Potest hoc quod dicit ( ipsi regnaverunt , & non , &c. ) Etiam de Jeroboham acc●pi filio Nabath , & de ceteris principibus , qui ei in imperio successerint . More positively some learned Writers in the Church of Rome , by whom it is affirmed , Hun● locum pertinere ad Reges Israel , quorum primus erat Jeroboham , qui tempore Reaboham , filii Salamonis , Regnum decem Tribuum invasit . And to the same effect saith Deodati amongst the Protestants , viz. The people of their own proper motion , without enquiring after Gods will , or staying for his command or permission , have chosen and made Kings of their own heads , separating themselves from the lawful Rule of David ' s posterity , 1 King . 11. 31. And then the meaning of the other Text will be plainly this , I gave thee ( or I gave thee leave to have ) a King in mine anger , that is to say in Jeroboham the Son of Nebat , who by with-drawing the people from the worship of God , to worship the golden Calves of Dan and Bethel , is said to have made Israel sin , and thereby plagued them irremediously ( without repentance ) into the heavy anger and displeasure of the Lord their God : And I took him away in my wrath , that is to say , in the person of Hosheah , the last King of Israel , carried away captive , together with the greatest part of his people , into the land of Assyria ; the people being dispersed in the several Provinces of that Empire , never returning since that time , to their native Country , nor having any King of their own to raign over them as afore they had . Not to say any thing of many of the Kings of Israel treacherously slain by their own subjects , out of an ambitious desire to obtain the Kingdom ; of whom it may be justly said , That God took them away in his wrath , before they had lived out their full time in the course of nature . Nothing in these two Texts which relates to Saul , and the captivity , that is to say , the Captivity of Babylon as you understand it . Such is your play with holy Scripture , when you speak ( as you suppose ) like a Divine .

20. But you have another use to make of the Prophet Hosea , whose words you cite unto a purpose that he never meant , namely to prove that Kings are not of Divine Right : For having said , that such Divines who will alwaies have Kings to be of divine right , are not to be hearkned too , seeing they affirm that which is clean contrary to Scripture ; you add , that in this case , said Hosea , they have set up Kings , and not by me , they have made Princes , and I knew it not . But first , these words are not spoken by the Prophet touching the institution of Kings in General , but onely of a particular fact in the ten Tribes of Israel , by with drawing themselves from the house of David , and setting up a King of their own without consulting with the Lord , or craving his approbation and consent in the business . Secondly , If it may be said that Kings are not of Divine Right and institution , because God saith here by the Prophet , that some Kings have been set up , but not by him , you have more reason to affirm , that Kings are of Divine Right and institution , because he saith in another place , less capable of any such misconstruction as you make of this ) by me Kings reign . All Kings are said to reign by God , because all reign by his appointment , by his permission , at the least . And yet some Kings may be truly said not to reign by him , either because they are set up by the people in a tumultuous and seditious way , against the natural Kings and Princes ; or else because they come unto their Crowns by usurpation , blood , and violence , contrary to his will revealed , and the establisht Laws of their severall Countrys . Which Argument if it should be good , we could not have a stronger against such Papists as hold alwayes ( for it seems no mater if they did hold so but somtimes ) that the Pope by Divine right is head of the universall Church ; then by showing them out of their own Histories , how many Popes have raised themselves into that See , either by open faction , or by secret bribery , and by violent and unjust intrusion . Of whom it may be said , and that not improperly , that though they pretend to be Christs Vicars , and the successors of St. Peter , yet were they never plac't by Christ in St. Peters Chair . Now to dispute from the persons to the power , and from the unjust wayes of acquiring that power , to the original right and institution of it , is such a sorry piece of Logick , as you blaming those who dispute from the folly of a people against an Ordinance of God . For upon what ground else do you lay the foundation of the legall Government ( especially amongst the Hebrews ) but on the folly of the people . p. 11. the imprudence and importunity of the people p. 14. upon which ground also you build the supream authority of the Judges , who onely by the meet folly of the people came to be set up in Israel , p. 13. But certainly if their desires to have a King were folly , and imprudence in them , it must be felix fatuitas , a very fortunate imprudence , and a succesful folly , I am sure of that , that people never live in a settled condition till they come to the Government of Kings . For was it not by the fortunate conduct of their Kings , that they exterminated the rest of the Canaanites , broke the Amalekites in pieces , and crusht the power of the Phylistins , growing by that means formidable unto all their Neigbours ? Was it not by the power and reputation of their Kings , that they gained some strong Towns from the Children of Ammon , and enlarged their Territories by the conquest of some parts of Syria ; that they grew strong in shipping , and mannaged a wealthy trade from Esion-Geber , in the streights of Babel-Mandel , to the Land of Ophir , in the remotest parts of India ? Prosperities sufficient to justifie and endear such burdens , as by the alteration of the Government might be said upon them .

21. From such Divines in Generall , as will always ( I must keep that word ) have Kings to be by divine Right , you come to me at last in my own particular , charging me that at a venture I will have Kings to be of Divine Right , and to be absolute ; whereas in truth ( say you ) if Divine Right be derived unto Kings from these of the Hebrews onely , it is most apparent that no absolute King can be of Divine Right .

And first to answer for my self ( for having sometime been a Parson , ( I shall take leave to Christen my own Child first ) I think that I was never so rash , nor so ill advised , as to speak any thing at aventure in so great a point , as the originall institution and divine right of Kings .

Secondly , I am sure I have not so little studied the Forms of Government , as to affirm any where in that Book against Calvin , as you call it , that all Kings be absolute . The second Sect. of the sixt Chapter , of that Book , being spent for the most part , in shewing the differences between conditional Kings , and an absolute Monarch .

And Thirdly , They must be as sorry Divines , and as bad Historians as my self , who ascribe the ▪ absolute Power , or the Divine right of Kings , to the first institution of a King amongst the Hebrews . For who knows not ( if he know any thing in that kind ) that there were Kings in Aegypt , and Assyria , as also of Scycionia in Peleponesus , not long after the Flood ; Kings of the Aborigines , and the Trojan race in Italy ; in that of Athens , Argos and Micenae amongst the Greeks , of the Parthians , Syrians , &c. in the Greater , and of Lydia in the lesser Asia , long time before the Raign of Saul the first , King of the Hebrews : all which were absolute Monarchs in their several Countrys . And as once Tully said , Nulla gens tam barbara , that never Nation was so barbarous , but did acknowledge this principle , that there was a God ; so will you hardly find any barbarous Nation , who acknowledge not the supream Government of Kings : And how then all Nations should agree in giving themselves over to the power and Government of Kings ; I believe none cannot show me a better reason , then that they either did it by the light of natural reason , by which they found that Government to be fittest for them , or that the first Kings of every Nation , were the heads & families that retained that paternal right over all such as descended of them , as might entitle their authority to divine institution . For proof whereof , ( since you have such a prejudice against Divines ) you need look no farther then your self , who tells us p. 12. That Kings no question , where the ballance is Monarchical , are of Divine right ; and if they be good , the greatest blessing that the Government so standing can be capable of ; or if you will not stand to this , then look on the first Chapter of Aristotles Politicks , where he makes the Regall Government to stand upon no other bottom then paternal Authority . Initio civitates regibus parebant , &c. At the first ( saith he ) Cities were Governed by Kings , and so still at this day are such Nations , as descended of men accustomed to the King by Government . For every houshold is governed by the eldest , as it were by a King , and so consequently are the Colonies or Companies multiplyed from thence , governed in like sort for Kindreds sake . Which words of Aristotle seconded by the general practice of all Nations , I look on as a better Argument of the Original institution & Divine Right of Kings ( that great Philosopher in the 4th . Book of his Politicks , cap. 2. giving unto the Regall Government the attribute of Divinissima , or the most Divine ) then to fetch either of them from the institution of the first King among the Hebrews , so that you might have spared the labour of showing the inconsequences , of arging from a contingent case to a matter of absolute necessity ( as from the making of the first King amongst the Hebrews , to the necessity of making Kings in all other Nations ) unless you could have found some adversary to contend withal . And with like thrift you might have saved your self the trouble of proving that the words of Moses in Deut. 17. v. 18. touching recourse to be had unto the Judge ( which should be in those dayes ) in some certain cases , inferred not a necessity , of having any such supream Judge as God raised up from time to time , to govern and avenge his people in their greatest misery , unless you have met with any ( which I know not of ) which trust as much to that Text of Scripture for those supream Judges , as you rely upon it for the Court of Sanhedrim , of which more anon . The corollary wherewithal you close this passage ; I like well enough , had you grounded your discourse on some clearer Text : For I conceive as well as you , that those Judges are not necessitated by the will of God , but foreseen onely by his providence , not imposed by the Law , but provided by i● as an Expedient in case of necessity .

22. But before I come to examine the Text of Scripture , on which you ground both the Authority of the Sanhedrim , and those supream Judges which governed in their several times the affairs of Israel ; I must first see what form of Government it is which you chiefly drive at , and in comparison whereof you so much vilifie and condemn the Regall . And fi●st the Government you drive at , mus● be plainly Popular , and such Popular estate call i● Timocraty , or a Democratie , or what else you please , into which the old Agrarian laws must be introduced , for the better settling of equality amongst the people . And such a Common-wealth as this , you fancy to be most agreeable to the natural liberty of Mankind , and Divine institution ; There is nothing ( say you ) more clear nor certain in Scripture , then that the Commonwealth of Israel was instituted by God , p. 14. and settled on a popular Agrarian , p. 12. And that the Restitution of their Common-wealth was fore-signified in these words of the Prophet , Hosea , I will be thy King , cap. 13. 10. But if you have no better grounds for the Institution , then for the Restitution of this Common-wealth , they are too weak for foundation of so great a building . The Prophet speaks in that place particularly to the house of Ephraim , v. 1. the people of the Realm of Israel v. 9. as appears more distinctly by their kissing the Calves ( the Golden Calves of Dan and Bethel ) v. 2. Of whose reduction to their native Country after their being carried away captive by Salmanasser King of Assyria , there is nothing signified in the Scripture in the way of prophesie , nor no relation of it as a matter of Fact . Nor can you show me any clear and evident text , by which I may be sure that this Commonwealth was instituted by God , considering that Moses during the whole time of his life governed authoritatively and supreamly without any appeal unto the people , or unto any other power either co-ordinate with him , or superior to him ; which I believe is more thenyou can show me in any Duke of Venice , or any State-holder of the Netherlands , or any other Prince in a Common-wealth , which onely serve as second Notions in a State , to put their business into form , and give date to all publick instruments , as the Keepers of the Liberties , not long since in England . Nor do I finde that Josuah abated any thing of that power which Moses had , advising sometime with the Elders of the people , but not governed by them ; so that the first Government amongst the Israelites , had more in it of the Regal , then the popular Forms ; to which they did desire to return again , upon the apprehension of the Anarchy , and confusion under which they lived , when there was no King in Israel , as in other Nations . And as for your Agrarian laws ( your Popular Ballance , as elsewhere ) upon which this Commonwealth is supposed to be settled ; I conceive it will be very hard for you to prove that also . For though the Land of Canaan was divided by Lot amongst the Tribes , yet neither had the Tribes themselves their equal portion , nor every family in those Tribes , their equal shares in those unequal portions with one another ; some of the Tribes enjoying little or nothing of the lot which had fallen unto them , and some of the Families of those Tribes , being scattered up and down the Country , as Jacob had prophesied of Simeon in the Book of Gen. which utterly destroyes that popular Agrarian on which this Common-wealth is supposed to be founded , and in which ( you say ) they might have continued , but that they desired to have a King like other Nations .

23. Your second Argument for a preferring a popular Estate before a Monarchy is derived from reason , and that reason grounded on the natural liberty of all mankind ; which cannot better be preserved them in popular Governments . God never required ( as you say ) . of any Man , or any Government , that they should live otherwise then according to their estate , that there are rules in Scripture to show the duty of a servant to such whose wants have made them servants ; but that there is no rule in Scripture that obligeth a man unto the duty of a servant , which can live of himself . And finally having askt this question , whether God hath less regard of a Nation , then he hath of a man ; you tax the Israelites for making themselves servants by desiring a King to be set over them , when they might have continued as they were in a free condition . But first that natural liberty of Mankind , which our great Polititians so much talk of , hath no ground in nature , for as servants are bound by positive Lawes to obey their Masters , so ▪ women are bound by the law of Nature to submit themselves unto their Husbands , and children by the same law to be obedient to their parents ; This if the Scripture had not taught you , you might have learnt from Aristotle , as he did from Homer , who in the ninth Book of his Odyssees , gives this Aphorism , viz Vxori & natis jus dicit quisque virorum , That every man gives law to his wife and children : And though the children come to such a condition both of age and fortunes , that they are well enough able to live of themselves , yet do they still continue servants to their natural parents , ( for Iu●a patris naturalis , minime solvantur , sath the civil Lawyers ) and therefore are required by God to do the duty of servants , till either their Fathers free consent , or the Constitution of the Government under which they live , shall lease them from it . Secondly , Admitting this natural liberty of all mankind which our late Polititians so much dream of , yet man in his depraved nature is such a violent head-strong and unruly beast , that he stands as much in need of a ●it or bridle , as the Horse or Mule , least otherwise he run headlong to his own destruction . And therefore if he will not have a King , he must be under the command of some other Government , aut R●x , au● Senatus habendus est , as once Pacuvius●aid ●aid unto those of Capua ; and whether he live under the command of a King , or the power of a Senate , he must be servant unto either ; though otherwise he pretend to the ability of a self-subsistence , for unto whomsoever you give your selves servants to obey , his servants ye are unto whom ye obey , saith the Great Apostle . And then the question will be this , whither the natural liberty of mankind may be best preserved under a Monarchical Government , where he hath but one Master to observe , whose tempe● and affections he may without much difficulty comply withal , under the Government of a Senate or popular State , where he must serve some hundred● of Masters , to every one of which , or to the greater part of which it is impossible for the wisest man to give any contentment ? Supposing Thirdly , That the Q●estion be resolved , in favour of the Popular Government , yet every popular Government is to be ordered by some Lawes , and every Law is the restraining of the use of this pretended liberty , and binds the subject to observance . ( Lex , being so called a Ligando , say the old Grammarians ) in all such cases , concerning which the Laws are made by what power sover .

24. But then say you , these laws are of their own making , not imposed by others , which makes no alteration in the case at all ; my fetters not being the easier to me , because they are of my own making , then if they were made by the next Smith , or provided for me by some others : Besides which you your self have told us , that all such Kings as claim by Scripture can be but regulated Monarchs , and could of right enact no Law , but by the suffrage of the people , pag. 15. Which is as notable a preservative of the peoples liberty , as ever was enjoyed by them in a popular Government . O but say you , the people in a popular Government have a power to chuse the Senate , which they have not in chusing of their King , and that the people with such a Senate , have power to make what Laws they please ; and what can follow thereupon , but that a Government so setled in a Senate and people must be accounted for a Divine Institution , and be called the Government of God , because it is the Government of Laws and not of men , as you tell us , pag. 11.

But first , how may we be assured , That a Senate so established will not Lord it over the people with greater insolency , and put more heavy pressures on them then ever they suffered under Kings ; for being many in number , and all equal in power , every one of them will endeavour to enrich himself , and serve their turn upon the people , there being no superiour power to controul them for it .

And next , how may we be assured , That the people ( I mean the whole body of the people ) have any power to chuse their Senate , or that the Senate being chosen , they have a power in voting with them for the making of Laws . The Famous Senate of the Romans , was ordained by Romulus their first King , their number doubled by Tarquinius Priscus , and a third hundred added by Brutus , which continued in the first times of the Consular Government , the people having no hand at all in the nomination : nor was it otherwise at Athens , though that was the most popular and Democratical Estate that ever was in the World ; the main body of the people in each Citty , having as little to do in the choise of the Senate , as they had in making of their Laws .

And first , in the making of their Laws , none of the City of Athens were permitted to vote ( or to give their voices ) but such as were accounted and enrolled for Citizens ; and none were either so enrolled or reckoned but the Chief of the City , all Servants , Labourers , Handicrafts-men , and Artificers ( which make the far greater part in every City ) not passing in account for Citizens , and consequently having no voice nor power , either in making Laws , or electing Magistrates .

And secondly , as it was in the Democratie of Athens , so was it in the Timocratie of Rome ; the infinitly greatest part of the Inhabi●an●s having no hand at all in the making of Laws , or in any other Act of Government , of what kind soever : For if a Law were past in Senate , none of inferiour Order had a suffrage in it : If it were made in the general Assembly of the Centuries , those of the Nobility agreeing together , might pass a Law without the rest ; and whither they agreed or not , the Law was always p●ssed by the other Centuries , before it came to the sixt , consisting of the poorer sort , which were never called unto the vote : They did in number far exceed all the other five Centuries .

And finally , if the Law were made in the Assembly of the Tribes , as all the poorer sort ( which made up the far greater part of the City ) could never make any use of their voices in the Assembly of Centuries , so the Nobility ( which made up the most considerable part of the City ) were quite excluded from having any suffrage or voice at all in the Assembly of the Tribes . Admitting finally , that all the Inhabitants of Rome , Athens , Syracuse , &c. had vote in the Election of their Magistrates , and in the making of their Laws ; yet what makes this unto those multitudes of people , which live dispersed in the Territories of those mighty Cities , or in any of the remoter Provinces which were subject to them ; who being infinitely more in number then the Inhabitants of those several and respective Cities , unto which they were subject , had neither voice in the Election of the Senate , or in the making of their Laws , or in any matter of concernment to their several Nations ; but will they , nill they , they must submit to the will and pleasure of their great Masters in those Cities , under whom they served , though otherwise as able to subsist of themselves , as any of the common sort of people in those Common-wealths . The like may be observed also , in some Common-wealths of a later standing , in which the greater part of the people have no voice at all , as to the making of their Laws , or chusing such as are to make them for the use of the publique ; and therefore are so far from having any part in the publique Government , that for the most part they are Governed against their wills . Such an imaginary speculation , such an empty nothing , is the supposed liberty of the people in a popular Government .

25. We must next see ( notwithstanding all that hath been said ) how much you vilifie and contemn the Regal Government , in respect of that popular , which you chiefly drive at : For having told us , That the Government of the Senate and the people , is that only which is or can be the Government of Laws , and not of men ; and that the Government of the Laws , and not of men , is the Government of God , and not of men ; You tell us out of Aristotles Politiques , That he that is for the Governmens of Laws , is for the Government of God ; and he that is for the Government of a man , is for the Government of a Beast : But Aristotle's words must be understood according to Aristotle's time , Cum arbitria Principum pro legibus erant , when the Subjects were Governed by no other Law , then the will of the Prince , and cannot be aplied to any King or Monarch in the Christian world , which have not only the Law of God for a rule in Government ; but many positive Laws of their own establishing , for the well ordering of the people in their several Kingdoms .

You tell us secondly , That when the ballance is popular , as in Israel , in the Grecian in the Scicilian Tyrannies , Kings are the direst curse that can befall a Nation .

But first ( to pretermit the extream harshness of the expression ) so far were Kings from being a curse to the people of Israel , that ( admitting the former Government to have been setled on Popular Agrarian , as it never was ) they proved the greatest temporal blessing to them , as before was said , that ever the Nation did enjoy .

And Secondly , you fall from such Kings , as exercise no other , then a lawful power to the Grecian and Scicilian Tyrannies , as if the case in setting up a King over the people of Israel , not onely by Gods approbation , but their own consent , were to be paralelled with those Tyrannies which were erected in some Cities of Greece and Sicily , by Dy●nisius and other Monsters of those ages , infamous for their lusts and most barbarous cruelties . For had the change been made by persons of sobriety & moderation , ( as that in Rome from a Democraty to a Monarchy , by Augustus Caesar ) the alteration might have been for the benefit of the common people , by bringing them from that which Aristotle calls the worst kind of Government , to that which comes nearest to the Government of Almighty God , and is therefore called the most Divine . Nor had the people lost any thing by such change in the point of liberty , which never is enjoyed more peacefully and securely ( nunquam libertas gratior extat , quam sub Rege pio , as it is in Claudian ) then under the Government of a just and merciful Prince , witness the difference in the Government of the state of Florence , between the tranquillity which all sorts of People do now enjoy under the protection of the Princes of the House of M●dices , and those confusions and disorders to which they were continually subject in the popular States .

In the Third place , you tell us that a King or soveraign Prince , can have no other subsistence or security , then by cutting off or tearing up all roots that do naturally sheat or spring up into such branches : that is to say , to the free course of Popular Orders ; which may perhaps be true in some of the Scicilian and Gretian Tyrannies , where every obstacle was removed , which was conceived to stand in the Tyrants way ; yet cannot this possibly be made good in any Christian Kings and Princes in these parts of the World , in which we find not any example of cutting off ▪ or tearing up such popular Orders ( or any roots which branch unto them ) as have been settled and confirmed in the times fore-going . Nor are you satisfied with that distinction of the Rabbins , ( whose Authority , when it serve● your turn , you do much insist on ) viz. that the people of Israel making a King , displeased God not in the matter , but the forms onely , that is to say , in desiring to have a King like other Nations ; which is no more then what generally is affirmed by such Christian Writers as have discoursed on this subject . Take this of Peter Martyr among the rest ▪ who telleth us that the people 's sinned in this request by desiring of a King after the manner of all other Nations , and not according to the rule of Gods word . Deut. 17. and in that they desired a King without consulting with the Lord , or having direction or order from him in that business . All which may be , and yet the ballance of a Government may not be onely form but matter : the main matter of their request ( which is the root of the tree you speak of ) being to change the Government , and to have a King : the form of their Request ( or the formall words in which they made it ) being to have a King like other Nations .

26. Finally you conceive so poorly of the Kings of the Hebrews ( and in them , of all other Kings for ought I can see ) that they were but regulated Monarchs when they were at the best : And in case of Mal-administration , obnoxious unto corporall punishment from the hands of the Sanhedrim : To prove the first , you tell us they were so tyed up to the Rules of Government prescribed in Deut. 17. that they could neither multiply Horses nor Chariots , nor Silver nor Gold ; nay , could of right enact no law ( as in those by David ) but for the reduction of the Ark for the regulation of the Priests , ( for the Election of Solomon ) which were made by the suffrage of the people . To answer first unto the last , David might gratifie the People in some popular actions , as in the Reduction of the Ark , and gratifie himself by the power of the people , as in setling the succession in the person of Solomon ; and yet not be obliged to it by that place in Deut. or any other fundamental law , which required it of him . And so the first place is answered , that the Kings of Israel were by that rule prohibited from multiplying Gold and Silver , and Chariots , and Horsemen , in a greater measure then what was necessary for the support of their Estate , and the protection of their people against forrain invasions . And to this very well agrees , the Gloss or Exposition of Diodati , in which we find that the end thereof was , that the King of Gods People should not exalt himself in pride and Tyranny ; nor put his confidence in humane means ; or be corrupted with pleasures . Which if it were not thus , the rule of Government prescribed by God in Deut. 17. must b● directly contrary unto the manner of the King , ( that is to say , the customary practise of those Kings in the course of their Government ) which God himself describes , 1 Sam. 8. 17. And yet this manner of the King , being told by Samuel unto the People , was so farre from terrifying them , from having a King as they desired , that they cryed out the more vehemently , Nay but we will have a King over us , &c. And which is more , Samuel having again informed ihem at the auguration of Saul , touching the manner of their King ; it follows in the Text , ●hat Samuel wrote it in a Book , and laid it up before the Lord , 1 Sam. 20. 25. Which to what purpose it was done , unless it were to serve for a standing measure both of the Kings power , and the peoples obedience , it is hard to say : And if you look upon the practise of David and his posterity , we shall find how little they conceived themselves to be circumscribed within those limits which you have assigned them ; of which you cannot take a better survey then what is given you by the excellent , but unfortunate Sir Walter Rawleigh in his conjecture of the causes hindring the reunion of Israel with Judah , during the troubles of that Kingdom , Hist. of the World . Part. 1. cap. 19. Sect. 6. Where having first told us , that the dis-affection of the ten Tribes ( if we look upon humane reason ) was occasioned by desire of breaking that heavy yoak of bondage , wherewith Solomon had galled their necks ; discourseth further of the hinderances of a re-union of the Kingdoms , in this manner following . Surely ( saith he ) whosoever shall take the paines to look into those examples , which are extant , of the differing courses held by the Kings of Israel and Judah in the administration of Justice , will find it most probable , that upon this ground i● was that the ten Tribes continued so averse from the line of David , as to think all adversity more tolerable then the weighty Scepter of that House . For the death of Joab and Shimei was indeed by them deserved , yet in that they suffered it without form of judgement they suffered like unto men innocent . The death of Adoniah was both without judgement and without any crime objected other then the Kings jealousie , out of which by the same rule of Arbitrary justice ( under which it may be supposed , that many were cast away ) he would have slain Jeroboham , ( if he could have caught him ) before he had yet committed any offence , as appears by his confident return out of Aegypt , like one that was known to have endured wrong , having not offered any . That which comes after in that Author , being a recapitulation onely of the like arbitrary proceedings of Jehoram , and other of the following Kings . I forbear to add , marvelling onely by the way , that the Sanhedrim did not take these Kings to task , for violating the standing rules of their Government laid down ( as you affirm ) in Deut. 17. and lay some corporall punishment on them , as you say they might .

27. This leads me on to the institution of the Sanhedrim , their power , and period : In the two first whereof you place the greatest part of your strength for defence of Calvin , though possibly you may be mistaken in all three alike . In the first Institution and authority of the Jethronian Judges , there is no difference between us ; The first thing you accept against is , that I make the 70. Elders to be chosen out of the Iethronians ; concerning which , you tell me , that I may do you a greater favour then I can suddenly imagine to tell you really , for what cause , or upon what Authority my speech is so positive , that is to say , that God willed Moses to chuse the seventy Elders out of those that were chosen in the 18th of Exodus . If I can do you any favour in this , or in any thing else , I shall not be wanting in any thing which I can do for your satisfaction ; And therefore you may please to know that my speech is grounded on those words in Numbers 11. v. 1. viz. And the Lord said unto Moses , Gather unto me seventy men of the Elders of Israel ▪ whom thou knowest to be Elders of the people , and officers over them ; And bring them unto the Tabernacle of the Congregation , that they may stand there with thee , &c. By which you may perceive , that the 70. were not to be chosen out of the Elders onely , but out of the Elders and Officers , and other Officers at that time there were none to be found , but those which were ordained by Moses in Exo. 18. to be Rulers of thousands , Rulers of Hundreds , Rulers of fifties , and Rulers of ●ens , for the determining of such smaller differences , and suits in Law that might arise among the people . And Secondly , it is consonant with reason that it should be so , that none should be admitted into the number of the 70. but such of whose integrity and abilities , there had been some sufficient trial in the lower Courts . Concerning which , take here the Gloss of Deodati on the former words , viz: Elders ] viz. chosen out of the greater number of the other heads of the people , Exo. 18. 25. ( that is to say , Rulers of thousands , Rulers of hundreds , &c. for to make up the great Councel or Senate . Thou knowest ] viz. those thou hast thy self chosen into office , or known and approved of in the exersising of it . Would you have more , ( for I am willing to do you any favour within my power ) then know that Ainsworth , a man exceedingly well versed in all the learning of the Hebrews , hath told me in his Notes or Comment on the former Text , that by Officers in this place , it seemeth to be meant of such Elders and Officers as were well known , and had approved themselves for wisdome and good carriage , for which they might with comfort be preferred to this high Senate : For they that have Ministred well , ( as the Apostle saith ) Purchased to themselves a good degree , 1 Tim. 3. 13. And more particularly thus , Our wise men have said , that from the great Sanhedrim they sent into all the Land of Israel , and made diligent enquiry , whomsoever they found to be wise , and afraid to sinne , and meek , &c. They made him a Judge in his City . And from thence they preferred him to the Gate of the Mountain of the House ( of the' Lord ) and from whence they promoted him to the Gate of the Court , ( of the Sanctuary ) and from thence they advanced him to the great Judgement Hall , for which he citeth Maimony ( one of the chief Rabbines in all that part ) in his Book of the Sanhedrim , cap. 2. Sect. 8. ( which gives me very good assurance that the seventy were first chosen by Moses out of the Iethronian or Ruling Elders which were afterwards called Judges in the Gates , because they were chosen out of that body in the times succeeding .

28 But granting this to be as you say , I would have it , you ask me what necessity there should bee in it , that because there lay an appeal to Moses , from those in Exodus , ( that is from the Iethronian Judges ) therefore there must needs lie an appeal from the seventy Elders the Sanhedrim unto Moses also . Which seems to me to be a contention de non Ente . For neither doth the Scripture say in the 18th of Exodus , that there lay any appeal from the Iethronian Judges to the 70. Elders ; nor do I say any where ( as I can remember ) that there lay any such appeal from the Sanhedrim or 70. Elders to Moses himself , though I think that such appeals might be brought unto him . All which the Scripture sayes concerning the Iethronian Judges , is onely this , That they shall bring every greater matter unto Moses , but that they should judge in every small matter amongst themselves , v. 22. which they are said to have done accordingly , v. 26. But what makes this unto appeals ? Appeals are made onely by the party grieved , not by the inferiour Courts themselves to the Courts above them ; and therefore when it was said , that they should bring the greatest matters to M●ses , and keep the smaller to themselves , it is to show the bounds and limits of their jurisdiction which they might not pass . Just as the practise is in England , in which the Sheriffs turn , & the Courts of the particular Hundreds determine not in any action above the value of 40 s. ( as here in Abingdon , not above five pounds ) All greater causes of what weight or value soever they be , being referred unto the Courts or Judges in Westminster Hall . Nor say I any where , that I can remember ) that there lay an appeal from the Sanhedrim unto Moses himselfe , though I make no question but there did , and you have said nothing to prove the contrary . For what makes this unto the purpose , that because ome of the Iewish Rabbines & the learned Grotius out of them , have told us , that as in the place of the Jethronian Judges , succeeded their Judges in the Gates , so the Sanhedrim succeeded in the place of Moses ; therefore there lay no appeal to Moses from the Sanhedrim or 70. Elders . For first , this may be understood , no otherwise , then that they came into the place of Moses , after his decease , or rather after the death of Josuah , who succeeded Moses till the first 70 were deceased . And Secondly , it may be understood , that they succeeded in the place of Moses , during that interval of time which past between the destruction of the Temple , and the captivity of the People , until the setling of the Government in the Race of the Maccabees : & that which happened from the Reign of Herod the Great , to the finall rooting out of that Nation by the Emperour Aerian , of which times most of your great Rabines seem to speak , & in which times neither any of the Kings of Iudah , after their reftitution by Iehoshaphat , or any of the Maccabeans were in place and power . Moses had otherwise made himselfe of no significancy in the publick Government , and stood but for a Cypher in the Arithmetick of State , if he had not kept unto himself the Dernier Resort in receiving any just appeals from that higher Court , as that both lawfully might , and did from the Courts beneath them . Which solecism in the Arts of Government had been committed by Jehoshaphat also , if he had left the Sanhedrim an unlimitted power , from which there could be no appeal ( either Agrarimine or Sententia ) to the Kings themselves .

29. But then you say , That we need not go further then Scripture for the certainty hereof , where the seventy are chosen , not to stand under Moses , but with him ; not to diminish his burden , or bear it under him , with an appeal in difficult cases to him ; as is expressed in the Election of the Jethronian Elders ; but to bear it with him , with out any mention of such appeal : On which distinction , between bearing the burden with him , and under him , you raise this conclusion , That if the seventy Elders were indeed instituted to bear the burden with Moses , therefore thenceforth lay no appeal unto him . But this foundation is too weak , for any Argument of weight to be built upon it ; there being no such difference betwixt the tearms , but that by bearing the burden with him , they might also bear it under him , as indeed they did . When Romulus ordained the Senate of Rome to be Assistants to him in the Government , and to bear part of the burden with him , did they not bear it also under him , aswel as with him ? And when a King elects some principal persons to be of his Council , and to bear some part of that great burden which is laid upon him , do they not therefore bear their part of the burden , as inferiour Ministers or Counsellors of Estate , but as equals to him ? I believe not so ; I might enforce this matter further , but that the Scripture is so evident and express against you . You grant that the Jethronian Judges did bear their part of the burden under Moses , and yet the Scripture says expresly , Exod. 18. 22. that they did bear the burden with him ; and therefore it must follow also , that though the Sanhedrim was said to stand with Moses , and to bear part of the burden with him , yet they did bear it under him also , as the others did ; which notwithstanding you conclude , That if the seventy Elders were indeed instituted to bear the burden with Moses , there thenceforth lay no appeal unto Moses . But then you hope to mend the matter , by telling us , that Moses gained in wisedom what he lost in power , and so the change was for the better : For whereas it was said by God to Moses , in Num. 11. viz. And I will take of the spirit which is upon thee , and I will put it upon them ; these words are so interpreted by all sorts of Expositors , as not to tend unto the diminution of the power of Moses , God's Spirit resting on him in as full a manner as before it did : This you are pleased to grant , and more ; for you say it rested in a fuller . How so ? Because ( say you ) you do believe , his wisedom was the greater for this diminution of his power : Where first you take for granted , that the power of Moses was diminshed by the institution of the seventy Elders , which hitherto you have not proved ; and then believe that his wisedom was the greater for it , which is as hard to prove as the other is , For if the Spirit of God , which before rested upon Moses , was not diminished by any communication of it to the seventy Elders , as the text doth not say it was , you have no reason to believe , that any such comunication of it to others , to so many as seventy , should make it rest upon him in a fuller measure then it did before ; or if you mean that his wisedom was the greater , because he had so many able Assistants in the Government with him , you should then turn the Text , and say that God took of the Spirit which was upon the seventy Elders , and put it upon Moses ; for otherwise his wisedom cannot be said to have been greater , for having so many wise Assistants , no more the personal vallour of a Prince may be said to be greater then it is , by having many men of valour in his Council of War , or the beauty of a Queen said to be greater then before , by having many beautiful Ladies attending on her . And so your argument against apealing from the Sanhedrim , as the supream Court , to Moses , as the supream Prince , is brought to nothing : Which notwithstanding you conceive so highly of the Sanhedrim , because it hath some resemblance to the Senate in a popular estate , that you make it to be a State distinct from the rest of the people ; and all this to no other purpose , but to multiply the number of estate in every Nation , that Kings , and such as have the power of Kings , may not be ridden only with the bitt and bridle , but a Martingal also : For if the Congregation of the people , in Law to be made , had such power as was shown ( but whither it be shown in your Papers or any where else , I am yet to seek ) and that in Law so made , the ultimate appeal lay unto the Sanhedrim ( as you can never prove it did , when there was any King in Israel ) you ask this Question , Why are not here two Estates in this Common wealth each by Gods own Ordinancce , and both plain in Scripture ? Which Argument or Question needs no other Answer , but that , a male suppositis ad non valet Argumentum . ad ●ejus concessa ( as the Logicians use to tell us ) . You must have plainer Texts of Scripture to prove this Ordinance of God , which here you speak of , or else the Sanhedrim and the people could not mak two distinct Estates in that Common-wealth , as you say they did .

30. Now for the clearer proofs of this , that is to say , that there lay no appeal to Moses from the seventy Elders , you have recourse to those words in Deut. 17. 8. where it is said , That if there arise a Controversie within thy gates , too hard for thee in judgment ; then shalt thou come unto the Priest and to the Levite , or to the Judge that shall be in those days , and they shall shew thee the sentence of Judgment ; upon which Text you first deliver this gloss , viz. that by the Judge which shall be in those days , we are to understand those supream Judges which governed the affairs of Israel , from time to time , betwixt the death of Joshua and the raign of Saul . Secondly , That by the Priests and Levites , we are to understand the Sanhedrim , according to the sense of all Authors , as they stand , both Jewish and Christian . And thirdl● , by these words within thy Gates , the Jethronian Judges , because they sate and gave judgment in the Gates of their Cities . And thereupon you raise this Conclusion , without doubt or hesitancy , That by the clear sence of Scripture , all matter of appeal in Israel lay unto the Sanhedrim : And yet perhaps it may be said , that the sence of that Text of Scripture is not so clear as you would have it , the words being otherwise glossed , and therefore otherwise to be understood then you seem to do .

For First , How may we be assured , that the Pri●sts and Levites made such a considerable number in the Sanhedrim , as to be taken in this place for the woole Court ; Some which are skilled in all the learning of the Hebrews , telling us that the 70. Elders were first chosen by six and six out of every Tribe which make up 72 in all . And yet say they , they passed by the name of the 70. Elders , ad retundationem numeri ▪ for the evenness and roundness of the number ; even as the 72 Disciples , ( Post haec autem designavit dominus & ali●s Septuaginta duos , saith the vular Latin , Luk. 10. 1. ) are for the same reason called the seventy . If so there could but six Priests and Levites be chosen into that great Council , admitting that the Tribe of Levi were at that time reckoned to be one of the Twelve ; and therefore it is very improbable , that the Priests and Levites should stand here for all the Sanhedrim ; but if the Tribe of Levi were not accounted , at that time amongst the Twelve ( as they were not afterwards ) then could there be no Priests or Levites in that Court at all , at the first institution of it ; though afterwards when Ten of the Twelve Tribes were fallen from the house of David , the Priests and Levites might be taken in to make up the number . And thereupon it needs must follow , that Moses i● that place did not intend the whole Sanhedrim , by the Priests and Levites , or lookt upon the Priests and Levites as the greatest and most considerable thereof .

Secondly , It is affirmed by some Christian Writers , that the Priests and Levites here mentioned , are to be understood in their single capacities , and not as parts and members of the Iewish Sanhedrim ; for when a matter seemed too hard to be determined by the inferiour Judges , they are enjoyned ( saith Deodat . ) to go to the Priests by way of consultation and Enquiry , to be informed of the true sence and meaning of Gods Laws : The Priests ( being great Lawyers among the people ) understanding and experienced in the meaning of Gods Law , according to which judgement was to be given in all the cases comprehended therein ; for which we cannot have a better proof then that of the Prophet Mal. cap. 2. 7. where it is said , that the Priests lips should keep knowledge , and they should seek the Law at his mouth ; for he is the Messenger of the Lord of Hosts . Nor is it so certain as you make it , that by the Judge who should be in those dayes , we are to understand , the supream Judge or Judges , or any of them , who governed the affairs of Israel , as aforesaid . For Ainsworth who had well studied the Iewish Rabbines , understands these words of the Sanhedrim it self : By the Judge ( saith he ) is understood the high Councel or Senate of Judges , which were the Chiefs or Heads of the Fathers of Israel . And this he doth not onely say , of his own Authority , but refers himself in generall to the Hebrew Records , and more particularly to Rubbige Maimony in his tract of Rebels , ca. 1. Sect. 4. By both it is agreed , that this direction is not given to the parties themselves , who had any suit or controversie depending in the low Courts , but to the Judges of those Courts , and to them alone ; for which I must confess I can see no reason in the Text or context .

31. For if you look into the first words of that chapter , we shal find it to be a general direction to the people of Israel , by which they are commanded not to sacrifice to the Lord their God any bullock or sheepe wherein is blemish or any ill favouredness , &c. which no man can conceive to relate onely to the Judges of the lower Courts . Nor find I any variation in the rest that follows , no nor in that which comes after neiher , v. 14. where those directions do begin which concern the people ( and not the Priests or Judges onely ) in the Election of their King . And therefore give me leave to think , ( and laugh not at me I beseech you for my singularity ) that there is no other meaning in that Text but this , i e. That if a doubt or scruple should arise amongst them in their severall dwellings in matters which concerned Religion , and the right understanding of the law of God , they should have recourse to the Priests and Levites , for satisfaction in the same , according unto that of the Prophet Malachy , that the people were to seek the Law from the mouth of the Priest , as before we had it . But if it were a civil controversie , matters of difference , which they could not end amongst themselves , and by the interposition of their friends and Neighbours , they should refer it to the Judge or Judges , in whose times they lived to be finally decided by him . And for this Exposition I have not onely some authority , but some reason also : My Authority shall be taken from the words of Estius , who makes gloss upon the Text , viz. Haec sententia modo sacerdotem modo judicem nominat propter duplicem magistratum qui erat in populo dei ; sacram & civilem ; quamvis contingeret aliquando duplicem magistratum in eandem personam concurrere . My reasons shall be taken first from that passage in the 12. verse , in which it is said , that the man that will do presumptuously , and will not hearken unto the Priest ( that standeth to Minister there before the Lord thy God ) &c. Where the Priest seems to be considered in personal capacity , as he stands ministring before the Lord at his holy Altar , not as he sits upon the bench , and acts ●with other of the Judges in an open Court . But whether that be so or not ; certain I am , that many inconveniences must needs happen amongst the people , if the Text be no otherwise to be understood , as you would have it . It is confest on all hands , that there was some intervall of time from the death of every one of the supream Judges and the advancing of the next , though in Chronologies the years of the succeeding Judges are counted from the death of his Predecessor . And you your selfe confess , p. 14. that the Sanhedrim did not continue long after Josuah : And I can find no restitution of it till the time of Iehoshaphat . For though you tell us , p. 16. that never any King , except David , had Session or Vote in this Councel , by which you intimate , that the Sanhedrim was on foot again in the time of David . Yet you have shewed us neither reason nor authority for it . And therefore you may do me a greater favour ( as your own words are ) then you suddenly imagine , to tell me really in what Book of Scripture , or in what other Author I may find it written , that either the Sanhedrim was on foot again in the time of David , or that David did at any time sit and vote amongst them . Hereupon I conclude at last , that if the Text be to be understood as you would have it ; and as you say it is understood in the sence of all Authors both Iewish and Christians , then must the people be without remedy ( at the least without remedy of Appeal ) in their suits and controversies during the interval of time betwixt the Judges , and without remedies also in their doubts & scruples touching the meaning of the Law , for the whole space of time which past betwixt the death of Iosuah , and the raign of Iehoshaphat , which comes to 511. years , or there abouts , which I desire you seriously to consider of .

32. And yet the matter were the less , if having given the Sanhedrim the Dernier Resort , or the supream power in all appeals ; you did not ascribe to them an authority also to controul their Kings . For proof whereof you tell us that both Skickardus and Grotius , with the full consent of the Talmudists , have assured you , that if the King came to violate the Laws and the Statutes , it was in the power of the Sanhedrim to bring him unto corporall punishment . How far Skickardus hath assured you I am not able to say , not being directed by you to any Book or Books of his where it may be found . But if you find no more in Skickardus then you do in Grotius , you will have little cause to brag of this discovery . For Grotius in his first Book , de jure belli &c. cap. 3. ) and not cap. 1. as is mistaken in the print ) first telleth us thus , viz. Samuel jus regum describens satis ostendit adversus Regis injurias nullam in populo relictam potestatem , &c. Samuel , saith he , describing the power of the King of Israel showes plainly , that the people had no power to relieve themselves from the oppressions of their Kings , according unto that of some antient Writers on those words of David , Against thee onely have I sinned , Psal. 51. And to show how absolutely Kings were exempted from such punishments , he presently subjoyns the testimony of Barnach monus an Hebrew . In dictis Rabinorum titulo de judicibus , which is this nulla creatura judicat regem sed benedictus ; that is to say , that no creature judgeth ( or can judge ) the King , but onely God for ever blessed . According unto which I find a memorable Rule in Bracton , an old English Lawyer , relating to the Kings of England , viz. Omnem esse sub rege , & ipsum sub nullo , sed tantum sub deo , That every man is under the King , but the King is under none but God . Betwixt which passages , so plainly destructive of the power ascribed to the Sanhedrim ; Grotius interlopes this following passage from some Iewish Writers , viz. Video consentire Hebraeos regi in eas leges quae de officio regis scriptae extabant , peccanti inflicta verbera , sed●a apud illos infamiâ carebant , & a rege in signum penitentiae sponte suscipiebantur ; ideoque non a lictore , sed ab eo quem legisset ipse probatur , & suo arbitrio verberibus statuebat modum . I have put down the words at large , that the learned and judicious Reader may see what he is to trust to in this point . The sence whereof is this in English , viz. that stripes were inflicted on the King , if he transgressed those Lawes which had been written touching the Regal office ; But that those stripes carried not with them any mark of infamy , but were voluntary undergone by him in testimony of his repentance ; upon which ground , the said stripes were not laid upon him by a common Officer , but by some one or other of his own appointment , it being also in his power to limit both the the number and severity of those stripes which they were to give him . Nothing in all this which concerns the Sanhedrim , nothing which speaks of such a power as the bringing of the Kings unto corporal ●punishment ; this punishment being onely such as the Kings had condemned themselves unto in the way of penance , for their transgression of the Laws : This is enough to show how little credit is to be given to the full and general consent of the Talmudists , whom Grotius builds upon , for proving the supream power in the Sanhedrim , in bringing their Kings to corporal punishment which they never had . And yet to make the matter clearer , he presently subjoyns these words unto those before ( but whether they be his own words , or the words of some of his Hebrew Writers , let them judge that list ) viz. a paenis autem coactivis adeo liberi erant reges , ut etiam excalceationis lex quippe cum ignominia conjuncta in ipsis cessaret . There Kings ( saith he ) were so far exempted from the coactive power of Law , that they were not liable to the penance of going barefoot , because it carried with it a mark of infamy . If there be any other place in Grotius , which may serve your turn , you must first direct me where to find it , before you can expect it should have an answer .

33. The Talmudists having failed you , you have recourse unto the Scripture , and to the Authority of Josephus , a right good Historian , but with no more advantage to the point in hand , then if you had never lookt upon them : You tell us of a Restitution of the Sanhedrim was made by King Jehoshaphat , as I think it was , for so I find it , 2 Chron. 19. v. 8. Moreover ( saith the Text ) in Jerusalem did Jehoshaphat set of the Levites , and of the Priests , and the chief of the Fathers in Israel , for the judgement of the Lord , and for controversies when they return to Jerusalem . But how can you inferre from hence , that by the manner of this Restitution , ( admitting that it relates unto the Sanhedrim , as I think ●it may , though other Writers make it doubtful ) doth so plainly show that ever under the Monarchy the power of the Sanhedrim was co-ordinate with that of the King , which consequent if it can be rationally collected from that text of Scripture , or any which depends upon it , I have lost my Logick . Jehoshaphat , though a just King , and a godly man , could neither be so unskilful in his own affairs , or so careless of the regalities of his posterity , as to erect another power which might be co-ordinate with his own , and might hereafter give a check to himself and them in all Acts of Government ; But then supposing Jehoshaphat to be so improvident , as to erect a power which was to be co-ordinate with him ; yet being but a co-ordinate power , it gave them no Authority to bring their King to corporal punishment , as you say they did . I know it is a rule in Logick , Co-ordinate se invicem supplent , that one co-ordinate doth supply the defects of another . But I never heard of any such Maxime , as , Co-ordinata se invicem tollent , that one co-ordinate power may destroy the other ; and if it hath no power to destroy the other , then can it pretend to no power correcting the other , which is the next degree to a totall destruction . For , par in parem non habet potestatem , as the saying is ; Besides all which , if any such power had been given the Sanhedrim either at the first institution of it ▪ by Almighty God , or at the Restitution by Jehoshaphat , there is no question to be made , but that we should have either found it in the Original Grant , or by some exemplications of it in point of practise ; but finding neither of the two in the Book of God , or in any approved humane Authors , I take it for a very strong Argument , that no such power was ever given them , Non apparentium , & non existentium , eandem esse rationem , was a good maxime in the Schools , and I build upon it .

34 , But on the contrary , you hope to help your self by two examples , one of them being taken out of the Prophet Jeremiah , the other out of the Jewish Antiquities ; you instance first in Zedekias , who to the Sanhedrim demanding the Prophet Jeremiah , made answer , Behold he is in your hands ; for the King is not he that can do any thing without you . Out of which words you would infer , First , that the King ( according to the opinion of some of the Talmudists ) was not to judge in some cases ; which whether he was or not , is not much material ; most Kings conceiving it most agreeable to their own ease , & the content of their Subjects , to divolve that power upon their Judges , obliged by oath to administer equal Justice betwixt the King and his people . You infer secondly from those words , that the Sanhedrim were co-ordinate with the Kings of Judah , though there be no such matter in them . My answer unto this objection , and my reasons for it , you must needs have met with in the Book against Calvin , as you call it ; of which since you have took no notice , I am forced to bring them here to a repetition . My answer is , That Calvin ( whom it most concerned to have it so ) finds fault with them who did expound the place , to that end or purpose which you most desire , or though the King did speak so honourably of his Princes , ac si nihil iis sit negandum , , as if nothing was to be denied them ; whereas he rather doth conceive that it was , amarulenta Regis quaerimonia , a sad and bitter complaint of the poor captivated King against his Councellors , by whom he was so over-ballanced , ut velit nolit cedere iis cogeretur , that he was forced to yield to them , whether he would or not ; which he punctually and expresly calls , inexcusabilem arrogantiam , an intolerable piece of sawciness in those Princes , and an exclusion of the King from his legal rights . This makes the matter plain enough , that the Princes ( by whom you understand the Sanhedrim ) had no such power in Calvins Judgment , as might make them equal to the King , or legally enable them to controul his rections ; but the reason which I there give makes the matter plainer ; and my reason is , that Calvin , who is said by some , to have composed his Expositions on the Scripture according to the Doctrine of his institutions , would not have lost so fair an evidence , for the advancing of his popular Magistracy , and consequently of the three Estates in most Christian Kingdomes , had he conceived , he could have made it serviceable to his end and purpose : for then how easy had it been for it , in stead of the Demarchy of Athens , in which you say he was mistaken to have understood the Jewish Sanhedrim , in which he could not be mistaken , if you judge aright : Besides we are not very sure , that the Princes mentioned in that place , did make up the Sanhedrim , or came unto the King in the name of Councell , of which some of them might be members , but rather that they were the Peers and most powerful men of the Realm of Judah , out of whose Families the Kings did use to chuse their wives . Who being incensed ▪ against the Prophet , and knowing that the King was not able to dispute the point with them , as the case then stood , preferred the executing of their malice against the one , before their duty to the other . But granting that by Princes here , we must mean the Sanhedrim , and that the Sanhedrim taking the advantage of those broken and unsetled times carried some things with an high hand against that King , yet this is no sufficient proof , that either by the rules of their institution , or their Restitution , they were co-ordinate with their Kings , or superiour to them . Great Councils , commonly are intent upon all advantages , by which they may improve their power , as in the minority of Kings , or the unsetledness of the times , or when they meet with such weak Princes , who either for want of natural courage , or a right understanding of their own affairs , suffer them by little and little to get ground upon them . But then I hope you will not argue a facto adjus , that because they did it therefore they might lawfully do it ; that maxime of the Civil Lawyers , id possumus , quod jure possumus ; being as undeniably true in the case of the Sanhedrim , or any other publick Council , as in that of any private person .

35. Your second example is that of Herod and Hircanus , which you found also in the Book against Calvin , by which name you call it ; but press it quite beyond my purpose . Baronius had affirmed of the Sanhedrim , ( as you also do ) Eorum summam esse potestatem qui de lege cognoscerent , & Prophetis & simul de regibus judicarent , that they had power of judicature over the Law , the Prophets and the Kings themselves , which false position he confirms by as false an instance , affirming in the very next words , horum judicio Herodem regem postulatum esse , That Herod being then actually King of Jurie , was convented by them , for which he cites Josephus with the like integrity , so that I had no other business with Baronius , then to prove that Herod was not King , when he was summoned to appear before the Sanhedrim ; and having proved that point , I had done my business without any shufflings and Evasions as you put upon me . But since Hircanus must be brought in also to act his part in a controversie of which I was not bound to take any notice . I must let you know , that if Hircanus could not by power save Herod from the hands of the Sanhedrim , and therefore shifted him away , as you say by art ; it was not for want of power in the King , but for want of spirit in the man . For first , Hircanus at that time was no more King of the Jews then Herod was , though he be sometimes called so by my self , and others , because he succeeded in the Kingdom , and was actually in possession of it , upon the death of Alexandra . But having afterwards relinquished the Kingdom to Aristobulus , and not restored again by Pompey , when the differences betwixt them came to be decided , he was forced to content himself with the Dignity and Title of High Priest , and was no other at such time as this business hapned . But granting that he was then King , yet living in a broken and distracted time , and being a Prince of little judgement and less courage , every one had their ends upon him ▪ and made him yield to any thing which was offered to him . So that this Argument comes into as little purpose as that before of Zedekias ; and therefore for a further answer to it , I refer you thither , without giving any more trouble to my self or you . But when you add , and add it out of Grotius , that this Court continued till Herod the G. who caused them all to be put to death except Sameas only ; it must needs follow hereupon , that Herod did not onely destroy the Members of that Court , but the Court it selfe . For when you say , that this Court continued till Herod the Great , you tell us in effect that it contiued no longer ; and by so doing , you must either contradict the four Evangelists , who make frequent mention of this Councel , as Mat. 5. 22. Joh. 11. 47. &c. or the general current of Interpreters which have written on them . Nor am I much moved with that which you say from Grotius ( supposing that he hath the Talmudists or his Au●hors in it ) that is to say , that God punished the Sanhedrim for neglect of their duty , in not supressing by their power , ( as they ought to have done ● he insolencies of Herod , in exalting himself against the Laws For I believe that neither Grotius , nor the Talmudists , or any who depends upon them , were of Gods councel in the business , or can tell us any more of it then another man : And therefore if the three Estates in a Gothish Moddel , have no better legs to stand upon then the authority of the Talmudists , and the power of the Sanhedrim , they can pretend to no such power after the persons , or actions of soveraign Princes , as Calvin hath ascribed unto them .

36. But you draw towards a conclusion , and so do I , you tell me upon confidence of your former Arguments , and take it as a matter proved , that there never lay an appeal from the Sanhedrim unto Moses , nor to any other Magistrate ( excepting onely when they lived under the Provincial Government of some forrain Princes ) as also that they had power upon their Kings . You tell me that I must confess that the three Estates concerned in Parliament , or any other Popular Magistrate Calvin doth dream of , are to be left in that condition in which Calvin finds them . And so perhaps I may when I see this proved , which as yet I do not , though there be no necessity on my part to make such confession , and much less to acknowledge that the whose book is answered , by your endeavour to make answer to some passages in it . Had it been proved ( unanswerably that the Ephori of Sparta , by the first Rules of their institution , had a jurisdiction over their Kings , and the Sanhedrim also over theirs , which are the only two points to which you have endeavoured to return an answer ) you have no more reason to expect that I should acknowledge the whole Book to be fully answered , then that you or any man may be said to have confuted all the Works of Cardinal Bellarmine , because he hath confuted two or three of his chief Objections . And thus in order to your expectation of hearing further from me , which you seem to hope for , rather then out of any desires engaging my self either with fresh Adversaries or new disputes . I must needs say , that I look upon you as a generous and ingenious Adversary , as before I did : Of whose society and friendship I should count it no crime , to be ambitious , had not my great decay of ●ight , ( beside other infirmities growing on me ) rendered me more desirous of a private and retired life , then of such an agreeable conversation . But the window of my shop being almost shut , & almost all my Wares plundered with the loss of my Library , it is high time for me to give over this trade , leaving to nimbler Pens the managing of these Political Discourses , wherewith mine hath been already dulled .

P. H. Lacies Court in Abingdon . December 24. 1658.

AN APPENDIX To the former Papers in Answer to some passages in M. FULLERS late Appeal , for INJURED INNOCENT .

1. IT is observed of Cicero that renowned Orator , that having spent the greatest part of his life , in the service of the Commonwealth , and in defence of many of the principal Citizens whose cause he pleaded , when they stood in need of so great an Eloquence : there was none found to advocate in his behalf , when his occasions most required it , Cum ejus salutem nemo defendisset qui per tot annos , & publicam civitatis , & privatam Civium defenderat , as Paterculus hath it . An infelicity , which I have some reason to expect , though I do not fear it : when after so many services to the Church in Generall , and appearing in defence of so many particular persons of most note and eminence , I shall be loaded with reproach by some , and contempt by others . Two adversaries I have lately drawn upon me for my love to truth , my zeal unto the Church , and the injured Clergy : By one of which ( notwithstanding my Respectful usage of him ) I have been handled in so rude and scurrilous a manner , as renders him uncapable of any honest correction , there being no Pen foul enough to encounter with him , which would not be made fouler by engaging in so foul a subject . From the other ( though more exasperated ) I have received a well studied Answer , composed with ingenuity and judgment , not standing wilfully in an Error of which he finds himself convinced , though traversing many points in debate between us , which with more honour to the truth might have been declined . And in the end thereof , I find a Letter directed or superscribed unto me , tending especially to the begetting of such a friendly correspondence betwixt us , as may conduce to the establishment of a following Peace . Which Letter I shall first lay down , and after some considerations had and made on the book it self , I shall return as fair an Answer . Now the words of the Letter are as followeth .

To my Loving Friend , Dr. Peter Heylyn .

2. I Hope , Sir , that we are not mutually unfriended by this difference which hath hapned betwixt us . And now , as Duellers , when they are both out of breath , may stand still and Parley , before they have a second Pass ; let us in cold blood exchange a word , and mean time let us depose , at least suspend our Animosities .

Death hath crept into both our Clay-Cottages through the Windows ; your Eys being Bad , mine not Good , God mend them both ; and sanctifie unto us those monitors of mortality , and however it fareth with our corporall Sight , send our Souls that Collyrium and Heavenly Eye-salve mentioned in the Scripture . But indeed , Sir , I conceive our Time , Paines , and Parts , may be better expended to Gods Glory , and the Churches Good , then in these needless Contentions ; Why should Peter fall out with Thomas , both being Disciples to the same Lord and Master . I assure you , Sir , ( what ever you conceive to the contrary ) I am cordial to the Cause of the English Church , and my Hoary Hairs will go down to the Grave in sorrow for her sufferings .

You well remember the Passage in * * Iliad . p. 254. Homer how wise Nestor bemoaned the unhappy difference betwixt Agamemnon and Achilles . * * I am forced to omit the Greek verses because my Amanuensis is not Scholar enough to transcribe them distinctly for me .

O Gods ! how great the grief of Greece the while , And Pryams self , and Sons do sweetly smile , Yea all the Trojan Party swell with laughter , That Greeks with Greeks fall out and fight to slaughter .

Let me therefore tender you an expedient intendency to our mutual agreement . You know full well , Sir , how in Heraldry , two Lioncels Rampant endorsed , are said to be the Embleme of two valiant men , keeping appointment , and meeting in the Field , but either forbidden to fight by their Prince : whereupon , Back to Back , neither Conquerors nor Conquered , they depart the Field several wayes , ( their stout stomacks not suffering them both to go the same way ) least it be accounted an injury , one to precede the other .

In like manner I know you disdain to allow me your Equal in this Controversie betwixt us , and I will not allow you my Superiour . To prevent further trouble , let it be a drawn Battel , and let both of us abound in our own sence , severally perswaded in the truth of what we have written . Thus parting , and going out back to back ( here to cut off all contest about Precedency ) I hope we shall meet in Heaven Face to Face , hereafter . In order whereunto , God willing , I will give you a meeting , when and where you shall be pleased to appoint , that we , who have Tilted Pens , may shake hands together .

S. Paul , writing to Philemon concerning Onesisimus , saith , For perhaps he therefore departed for a season , that thou mightest receive him for ever . To avoid exceptions , you shall be the Good Philemon , I the Fugitive Onesimus . Who knoweth but that God in his providence permitted , yea ordered , this difference to happen betwixt us ; not onely to occasion a Reconciliation , but to consolidate a mutual friendship betwixt us , during our lives ; and that the survivor , ( in Gods pleasure onely to appoint ) may make favourable and Respectful mention of him , who goeth first to his Grave , The desire of him who Remains ,

SIR , A Lover of your Parts , and an Honourer of your Person , Tho. Fuller ▪

3. This Letter I must needs confess to be very civil , and the add●ess agreeable enough to my disposition ; so that I am obliged , both in point of manners and good nature , to return such an answer to it , as may sufficiently declare that my contentions rather aim at Truth , then Victory , or Victory no further , then it triumpheth in the vindication of an injured truth . But first I am to enter into consideration of some particulars relating to the late Appeal , my Adversary , my self , and finally to some few differences which remain between us .

4. And first concerning The Appeal , ( for by that name he calls his Answer to my Animadversions ) I cannot make a fitter Resemblance of it , then to a well digested Answer to a Chancery Bill , which for the most part endeth with these formal words , viz. Absque hoc , that any matter or thing material , or effectual , for him the defendant to make Answer unto , in this his Answer , is not sufficiently Answered , confessed , or avoided , traversed or denyed to the best of his knowledge . Many particular Errors which were charged upon him , he hath ingeniously confessed , and promised to correct them in the next Edition ; so that I must needs think that I have not bestowed my labour in vain , in case it produce no further good effect upon him , as I hope it will , some he endeavoureth to avoid , and seeks all Subterfuges which wit or cunning can devise to save himself from the sence and guilt of a conviction . In which Respect as the Lord Chancellor Egerton was wont to say of Dr. Day , ( then being Dean of Windsor , and Provost of Eaton ) that he was the best at creeping out of the Law of any that ever came before him ; so it may be affirmed of the present Appealant , that he hath an excellent way of avoiding that Argument , the strength whereof he cannot Master , as will appear to any equal and judicious Reader . And other Arguments there are , which he ●o avoideth , as to make no Answer to them at all , of which sort most especially are those Charges in the Adnimadversions , as that about the Brittish Laws , a Copy whereof was desired from Luciu● by Pope Euleutherius , num. 14 His bringing the H●ns and Vandals out of the Cimbrick Chersonese , the first whereof inhabited beyond the Fennes of Meotis in the Greater Asia , the othes in the Dukedom of Mertlenburg , on this side of the Bullich , num . 49. His bringing of the Brittish Lawes into the Collection made by K. Edward the ●onfessor , num. 53. that about St. Stephens Chappel , num . 64. His making of Cardinal Beawfort to be the founder of the Hospital of S. Owsse , near Winchester , num. 106. His skipping over the Head of Henry of Albret , the second Husband of the Dutchess of Alanzon , sister to King Francis the first of France , num. 108. His making Cain to be one of the four primitive persons in the beginning of the world ( which must be understood of the time when he killed his Brother ) num. 129. His not distinguishing between the first Liturgy of K. Edw. the 6th . and a form of administring the Communion made the year before . And numb . 136. his not Answering to the Argument in behalfe of the Articles agreed upon in Convocation , An. 1552. nor numb . 141. to that against Conning of Loyalty by Heart out of the Statute of succession , derived from the short time which intervened between the making of that Statute , and the Raign of Queen Mary : And num. 143. His making Callis not to be worth the charge which it cost in keeping , num: 150. His Ascribing the precedings of some Bishops to a power given them by the Canons , at what time no such Canons were made as the Author dreams of , num. 165. His passing over the Statute , 23. of Eliz purposely made for suppressing the impetuosities of the Puritan faction , num. 175. His two mistakes in making Bancroft Bishop of London , to be present at the framing of the Lambeth Article : and num. 189. and the Lady Margarets Professor in Cambridge , to continue in his place from three years to three years , num. 190. Thesulri , his placing the Earl Marshal before the Constable , as if the one had gone before the other in that Royal Pomp , when as they march by two and two , num. 229. Some he cuts off with an &c as numb . 130. in Baulking the Discovery of such Lands as are held Tith free under colour of belonging to the Cistercians , Templers , and Hospitalers , and num. 135 , about the sitting of the Lords of the Councell on Sundays as well as others Holy-days , for affairs of State , and num. 144. about the Priviledges granted in the Convocation by Act of Parliament ; and num. 855. touching the reasons which induced Queen Elizabeth not to commissionate the Clergy in her first Convocation , to treat of any thing which concerned Religion , besides divers others . And many Paragraphs there are in the Animadversions which he hath totally preter ▪ mitted , without taking any notice of them at all , as , viz. Num. 130. 135. 138. 140. 158. 163. 176. 177. 178. 182. 197. 201. 202. 204. 207. 208. 209. 210. 212. 218. 275. 278. 279. 280. 282. 297. 312. 320. to which for brevity sake I refer the Reader ; and to his Judgment also , I refer the consideration of all those particulars , whether he thinks them pretermitted as unanswerable , or not worth the answering .

5. Such being his Avoidings in matters which relate to the story only , we must next see how he doth traverse such Indictments as had been brought against himself . He stands suspected in the Animadversions , for harbouring some disaffection to the Regal and Episcopal Government , the power and Rulers of the Church , and the Orders and the members of it : First being touched in point of Loyalty , for laying down a dangerous Doctrine in reference to the person of King Henry 6. Lib. 4. to 190. he pleads the benefit of one of the Erratas in the Animadversions , where fol. 109. is mistaken for 190. and finding nothing to the purpose in the place mistaken conceives himself to be discharged by Proclamation , from the Crime objected : But when it comes to be considered in its proper place , he maks so sorry a defence , that the last words of it , though but few , viz. The less we touch this Harsh-string the better Musick , make the best part of the Answer , pag. 2. fol. 52. In the beginning of the Raign of Queen Elizabeth , he advocates i● behalf of some violent spirits , who being impatient to attend the leisure of Authority , fell before hand to beating down of some superstitious Pictures and Images ; and several reasons are alledged for their justification , without pretending unto any other Author , out of whom he had them ; and this he traverseth , by saying , that he subjoyned somewhat in confutation of their extravigancies ; and somewhat is subjoined indeed , but that which rather speaks the sense of others then his own : Others ( saith he ) condemned their indiscretion herein , because although they might reform the private persons and families , yet publique reformation did belong to the Magistrate : Where first , those others whom he speaks of , are of a different sense from him , who puts such tempting reasons into the mouths of those violent hot-spurs ; and then he makes those others to be so indifferent , as to condemn them only of some indiscretion , and no higher Crime , pag. 2. fol. 53.

6. Being indicted for pleading so coldly for the Hierarchy of Bishops , as if he had a minde to betray the Cause , he traverseth the point and tells us , that possibly he might do it weakly , for want of ability , but not coldly , for want of affection ; and therefore that from thence-forward , he would stand by and resigne his place at the Barr , to better pleaders then himself : More fully thus in the Church History , fol. 143. I will now ( saith he ) withdraw my self , or at leastwise stand by as a silent Spectator , whilst I make room so for my betters , to come forth and speak in the present controversie of Church Government ; call it not cowardise , but count it caution in me , if desirous in this difference to ly at a close ward , and offer as little play as may be on either side : which words of his , whether they do not argue rather a coldness for want of affection , then any weakness or want of ability , is left to the verdict of the Jurie . Acoused for mitigating the scandalous offences of the Martin Mar-Prelates , in their reviling of the Bishops , by passing no other censures on them then this , viz. That wits will be working , and such as have a Satyrical vane , cannot better vent it , then in lashing of si● : He complains of being dis-ingeniously dealt with by the Prosecutor , because he lets us see in the following words , that whatsoever his own judgment and opinion was , yet the most discreet and devout sort of men , even of such as were no great friends to the Hierarchy , did condemn the practise , pag. 2. fol. 89. His disaffection to the Church and the power thereof , being urged against him in his congratulation , for taking away the High Commission and the Oath Ex Officio , which had been formerly the greatest curbs of the Puritan Faction , and the strongest Bulwarks of the Church ; he pleads no otherwise to the first part of the charge , then by praying , That God would please to restore the Church , in his good time , so her just rights , and give her wisedom moderately to use it : And to the second part thereof , that he desireth from his heart , that no such analogical Oath ( that is to say , no Oath which carrieth any analogy to the Oath Ex Officio ) may be offered to him , but giving the Animadvertor leave to have it to himself if he doth desire it . Ibid !

7. Impeached for reckoning the Cross in Baptism amongst the Popish trinkets , the Episcopal Ornaments for trifles , the Le●any , Surplice , and other Ceremonies in Service and Sacraments , counted both as superfluous and superstitious : He answereth to the 1 , that though he call the Cross in Baptism a Popish trinket ▪ yet it is not called so simply and absolutely , that he holds it for an ancient and significant Ceremony , though it be neither essential to or completory of the Sacrament ; but that it is high time to tearm them superstitious trinkets , when that or any others Ceremonies , shall intrude themselves as necessary and essential , pag. 1. pag. 155. neither of which ( I mean necessity nor essentiallity ) hath hitherto been ascribed to the Cross in Baptism , by any of the greatest Trinketers in the Church of Rome : So that he might have spared those words ( in reference at least to the Church of England . ) A Chain of Gold is an eminent Ornament ●bout the neck ; but it may be drawn so close , as to choak and strangle the wearer thereof . And in like manner , Ceremonies , though decent and useful , when pretending to essentiality become ( as Luther saith ) carnificinae conscientiae , and therefore justly may we beware thereof , pag 2 ▪ fol. 9. The second part of that charge , for calling the Episcopal Ornaments by the name of ir●fles , he exonerates on the Duke of Northumberland , as better able to bear it , pag. 2. fol. 78. though the words plainly are his own . And in full Bar , to the third , he appeals to all such as knew his conformity in the Colledge Chappel , Country Parishes , and Cathedral of Sarum for his compurgators , pag. 2. fol. 80.

8. And finally , ( not to descend to more particulars ) having reproacht the sequestred Clergy by the name of Baals Priests , unsavory Sal● , not fit to be thrown upon the a●nghil , and charged them with such foul offences , as did not onely cry to ●●sti●e for punishment , but were too shameful to b●●●ported ; He Traverseth the point , and saith , That his Pen and Tongue hath been , and shall be tender of their Reputation , p. 3. fol. 56. And this is such a kind of Protest , as the Civilians call Protestation contraria facto , when the Protestation made of a Mans own innocenc●es , is evidently contrary to the fact , against which he protesteth ; though for the clearer proof hereof , as in the former part of the charge , he had fathered his own words on the Duke of Northumberland ; so in this last , he assumes those de●ences upon himself , which in his Histo ▪ he ascribes to the Oxford Royalists , alledging many just exceptions for their sequestred Friends , against the proceedings of the Houses . Which Traverses of his , whether they wil hold good or not , must be left to the judgement of the Court . Certain I am , that by these Vell. Pater . Hist. 121. Traverses on the one side , and his Avoydings on the other , he seems to be as much distracted betwixt Science and Conscience , as was Medea in the * * Aliudque cupido , mens aliud suadet video melioraproboque deteriora s●equor Poet , betwixt judgement and Passion ; rather Resolved to plead not guilty to the Bill whatsoever it be , then to stand mute , or to be taken pro confesso , and have a verdict pass against him ▪ by a nihil Dicit .

9 ▪ The Generall Avoidings , and particular Traverses , which ( together with the Points or Articles confessed ) make up the greatest part of The Appeal , being thus passed over , I should proceed according to the method and style before remembred to the Considertion of those few Charges which in the Answer are denyed , and so remain in difference between us , as at first they did . But first I must prepare my way , by taking notice of such Ma●●●●●s and Things , as most especially relate unto my Adversary and my self . And if I do begin with my self , I shall refer it to my Adversaries Determination , whether I do it in reference to the old Rule in the Accidence , That the first person is more worthy then the second , and the second more worthy then the third ; or to the Proverb which instructs us , That charity begins at home , or Egomet proximus sum mihi , as the Latines have it . First then , he chargeth me with Cavils . Cavils without cause , and Cavils without measure , and yet observes it to be so easie a peece of work , that a Pigmy may be a Giant ; enough for such a purpose . p. 1. If so , then either I must be a Pigmy , compared to such a Giant , such a Son of Anak , in Historical matters ; or such an easie peece of work must be much beneath me , whom he is willing to acknowledge to be of abler parts and Learning , then indeed I am , in hope to gain the greater Honour by his victory on me . But my exceptions are too just to be called Cavils ▪ too few to be reckoned without measure , and too well grounded to be accompted without cause ; for otherwise what need was there on his part for so many confessions , such frequent Traverses and Avoidings of those Accusations , from which he could not clear himself by a positive Answer : And yet he makes the ca●sless Cavils so frequent in me , and the humour of Cavilling so Predominant in my affections , as to be able to affright all those from writing Histories , who have both commendable Inclinations , and proportionable qualifications , for such undertakings . * Ap. p. 23. For saving to my self the benefit and advantage of exception , now and at all times hereafter against the injustice of such a false and undeserved calumnie ; I do hereby assure the Appeallant , and all others whosoever the● be , who shall apply themselves to writing of Histories , that my Pen shal never be imploy'd about them to the disgracing of their persons , or the discountenancing their performance in what sort soever . And in persuance hereof , I shall be somewhat better natured then the Lady Moore ; of whom my Author knows a tale , that coming once from Shrift , she pleasantly saith unto her Husband , be merry Sir Thomas , for I have been well shriven to day , and mean to lay aside all my old shrewishness : yea , Madam , ( saith he ) and to begin again afresh .

10. But so it shall not be with me ▪ that which my adversary takes for a shrewishness in me , shall be laid aside , never to be resumed again upon any occasion , when I am not personally concerned . In which case , if either my spirit prove so eager , or my style so tart and smart , as he * Ap. p. 2. says it is , I hope the naturall necessity of self preservation will excuse me in it . Where by the way , I must needs think my self unequally dealt with by the present Appeallant , who is not pleased with my humour , be it Grave or Pleasant : If I am Grave , and serious in my Animadversions , he ascribes it ever and anon to my too much Morosi●y , as if I were the Morose himselfe in Ben Johnsons Epicaene . I● smart and jocular , I shall be presently accused o● Railing as if I had been bred in Billings-Gate Colledge . I can not make my selfe merry with a mess of Fullers , but I must have a Rail laid in my Dish , and a quail to boot ; especially if I touch on our Author himself , who will behold me for so doing , with no other eyes , then the servants of Hezekiah looked on Rabsecah , p. 2. fol. 95. And if I do but speak unhappily of a Waltam Calf , the application of the Harmless Proverb without more a●o , must be Railing also , and such a railing as is like a To●d swelled with venome , as much beneath a Doctor as against Divinity . p. 3. fol. 33. But let not my Author be too Angry upon this account , my Title to the Calf being like to prove as good as his , especially if our Contentions be so needless , as his Letter intimates . For i● our Quarels onely be , de lana caprina , the equall Rider may bestow the Calf upon both alike ; Et vitulo tu dignus & ●ic est , as said the Umpire in the Poet. And in all this I hope there is is nothing of the snarling dog , to which he i● pleased to compare me within few lines after , though he knows well that I can Bite , as well as Bark , if I set my self to it .

11. But now I am to change my weapons , or rather , to throw down the Sword and take up the Buckler , that I may save my self the better from those furious blows which the Appealant le●s fly at me . He charges m● in Generall , first with not being over dutiful to the Fathers of the Church fol. 2. Dutiful then I am to the Fathers of the Church , though not over dutiful , which I believe is more then all men , who have read his History canaff●●m of him ▪ and next particularly , for writing against the two Arch-bishops of York , and Armah , Dr. Prideaux , Dr. Hackwell , and Calvin ( who against all the Rules of Heraldry , must be marrialled first ) my engaging with M Lestrange , with D. Barnard and his Squire not being forgotten . Of which the first four might have slept in Peace in the Bed of Rest , without any disturbance on my part , if three of them had not been conjured up , by Dr. Barnard , fol. 20. and his Squire to begin the Quarrel ; and the fourth raised by M. Lestrange , when I least lookt for him . And as for Calvin , who must needs lead the Van in this General Muster ; I know no reason which can hinder me , or any other who have subscribed unto the Government of the Church of England , or have taken the Oaths of Supremacy and Allegiance to the Kings thereof , from taking him to task if he com●●n our way , as well as any other forrain o● Domestick Writer of what name soever .

12. But my ●ndutifulness hath transported me beyond the Fathers of the Church . And I am next accused , for waving my Loyalty and Discretion together , in having so ●au●ily and unsubject-like counted how often King Charles waved his Crown . p. 1. fol. 56. Somewhat is also intimated within few lines after , concerning some of those whom he calls ●igh Royalist● , who maintaining that all the Goods of the subjects are at the Kings absolute dispose , have written of him in a base and disparaging language , since the time of his death . If any were faulty in this last kind , let them speak for themselves , neither my Tongue nor Pen shall ever be imployed in their behalf . Certain I am , that I am free enough from the accusation ; my nearest kindred being persons of two fair a Fortune to be betrayed by one of their own blood to a loss of that Property , which they have by Law in their Estates . And no less certain am I , that no flattery or time-serving , no preaching up the Kings Prerogative , nor derogating from the property of the English subjects , could be found in any of my Sermons before his Majesty , had they been sifted to the very Bran. In confidence whereof ( as in the way of Anticipation hath * * Epist. Ded. before the Sermons on the Tares been said elsewhere ) I offered the Committee of the Courts of Justice , ( before whom I was called in December 1640. on the complaint of M. Prinne ) to put into their hands all the Sermons which I had either preacht at Court , or in Westminster Abby to the end that they might see how free and innocent I was from broching any such new Doctrines as might not be good Parliament proof , whensoever they should come to be examin'd . The 2d crimination for waving my Loyalty and discretion together , in speaking something freely , ( let it be called saucily to please my Author ) of the Kings waving of hs Crown , is already answered , und the Appeallant might have found it in my Answer to the Observator Observed , where the like Objection had been made . My Answer is ; That Errors in conduct of affairs , and effects in Councels , are not unprofitably noted by the best Historians , and that too in the greatest Princes ; Their successors might be else to seek in the knowledge of some things of weight and consequence , and such as most nearly do concern their own preservation . He that soweth Pillows under Ob. Rese . p. 8. the Elbows of Great Princes , when they are alive , shall be termed a flatterer ; and he that flatters them being dead , to the prejudice and wrong of their Posterity , deserves not to pass for an Historian . That wit is alwaies better cheap , which is purchased with the price of another mans Errors , then with the feeling of our own . So that my Adversary in these Criminations doth but Actum agere , and therefore is to be content with such former Answers as have been made unto his hands .

13 Now as I stand accused for two little Loyalty to the King , so I am charged with two much doting on the Queen , even the Great Queen and Empress of this world , called Regina Pecunia ; whose Letter must be made more prevalent with me , for publishing the Animadversions , then all the other considerations pretended by me . And for proof hereof , he calls the Book it self to witness . Offered to , and Refused by some Stationers , because that by reason of his Hi●h terms , they could not make a saving Bargain to themselves , fol. 57. For Answer whereunto I must let him know , that the Animadversions when they stood single by themselves in the first draught of them , were offered to M. Roycro●t the Printer for a peece of Plate of five or six pounds , and a quartern of Coppies , which would have cost him nothing but so much paper , conditioned that he should be bound to make them ready b● Candlemas Term , 1657. but he not performing that condition , I sent for them again , enlarged them to a full third Part , and seconded them with the Advertisements on Sandersons Histories ; and having so done , offered them to M. Royston , and M Marriot , who had undertook the Printing of the Book , called Respondit Petrus , after my old friend had refused it , whose Propositions ( for I reserved the offer to be made by them ) being very free and ingenuous , were by me cheerfully excepted . But M. Marriot afterwards declining the business , it was afterwards performed by M. Royston and M. Seyle , his said old friend , on no better conditions then had been offerred at the first . And now I am forced upon this point , I shall add this also , that for the Obseruations on the Hist. of H. L. Esq ; and the defence thereof against the Observator Observed , the Help to History ( which now I shall boldly take upon me being thus put to it ) my Commentary on the Creed , and the Book called Ecclesia Vindicata , I never ma●e any conditions at all ; and for the four last never received any consideration but in Copies onely , and those too in so small a number , that I had not above seven or eight of the three first , and but twelve of the last . And for the Printing of these Papers , so far am I from making any Capitulation , that it remains wholly in the ingenuity of the Stationer to deal with me in it as he please● ; so that I scrible for the most part , as some Cats kill M●se , rather to find my self some Recreation , then to satisfie hunger . And though I have presented as many of the said Books , and my large Cosmographies within seven years past , as did amount at the least unto twenty pound , I never received the value of a single ●●●thing , either directly or indirectly , either in money or any other kind of Retribution of what sort soever . When my Adversary can say the like , let him upbraid me with the Love of Regina Pecunia , but till then be silent .

14. But he goes on and charges me with addressing my History of St. George , by several Letters to the Earls of Danby , Lindsey , &c. And it is fit that he should have an answer to that Charge also . And therefore be he pleased to know , that when I first came came to the Kings service , I was very young , a stranger , and unpractised in the wayes of the Court ; and therefore thought it necessary to make my self known to the Great Lords about his Majesty , by writing that History , having presented it to three or four of the Lords , which were of the Order of the Garter ; the Earl of Rutland would needs force upon me , the taking of two twenty shilling peeces in Gold . The sence and shame whereof did so discompose me , that afterwards I never gave any one of them with my own hands , but onely to the Earl of Sommerset , whom I had a great desire to see , and from whose condition I could promise my self to come off with freedom . But afterwards addressed them with several Leters by some one or other of my servants ; with whom I hope my Adversary will not think that I parted stakes , as many Country Madams are affirmed to do in the Butlers Box. And though I dedicated two of my Books since his Majesties death , to two great Peers of this Realm ; yet for avoiding all such sinister interpretations which otherwise might have b●●n made , I sent the one of them with a Letter into Wiltshire , and another unto High-Gate , by one of my Sons not above 15 : years of age ; receiving from the one a civil acknowledgment in curteous language ; but from the other not so much as a verbal thanks : And give me leave to add this also , that I have found more civility in this Kind , from a Noble Lady of Hertfordshire whom I never saw , and unto whom I never made the least application of this nature , then from all persons , of both Sexes , that ever I addrest my self unto , since this scribling humour seised upon me . I thank God I never was reduced to such a necessity , as to make the writing of Books any part of the trade which I was to live by ; for if I had , I should have found from it such an hungry subsistence , as would not have given a chick its breakfast when first out of the shell . If the great Queen Regina Pecunia , had not been better courted by some of our late Scripturients , then she hath hitherto been by me , they might have put up all their gettings into a Sempsters Thimble , and not filled it neither .

15. These Charges being thus blown aside , I must be told of many Errors in my Cosmography , and the brief view of the Raign of King Charles , not long since published , the not discovering whereof , my Adversary imputes unto himself for a work of merit . In reference to the fi●st , I must needs confess , that in the last Edition of my Cosmography there are many Errors , but they are rather Errors of the Press , then of the Pen. And the Appeallant cannot chuse but know , since he pretends to have read that Book , that I complain more then once or twice for want of true intelligence in the discribing of some remote Countrys ( and India amongst the rest ) which were but little known to Ancient Writers , and have been so imperfectly discribed by our modern Travellors , that no certainty in History or Chorography can be gathered from them . If any person shall be pleased to improve my knowledge , and certifie me of the Errors which I have committed , I shall not spurn against him as the Appeallant doth at me , but thankfully acknowledge their humanity in it , and cheerfully reform what is found amiss . In the composing of this Book , he is pleased to tell me , that the extravagancies by me committed are as great as his , that 16. parts thereof in 20. are meerly Historical , alien from the subject in the strictne●s thereof . The Ped●grees of so many Princes , not being reducible to the subject which I have in hand , fol. 37. But if he h●d been please● to consult the Title , he might have found that the History of the whole world , and all the principal Kingdoms , Seas , and Iles thereof , is as much promised in that Book , as the Chorography , or Topical Discription of the severall places ; and therefore nei●her Alien , Extrinsecal , or Extravagant to my first design . And whereas he is pleased to tell us a merry tale of a Gentleman who bespoke a Carp for his Dinner when he was in Geneva , because he had read in that Cosmography , that the Lemm●n Lake had plenty of that Fish , the best and biggest of that kind , p. 3. fol. 4. Let me subjoyn a word or two for my just●fication : And first it is not there affirmed as a matter of certainty , but with a sie serunt , ( as some say ) lib. 1. fol. 159. And Secondly , the Author out of whom I had it , is no worse a man then Guiovanni Botero , an Italian Writer , in whose Relations ●f the W●rld , tra slated into English with some Enlargements , lib. 2. p. 197. 198. of the Edition of the year 1616. he shall find this passage , viz. The River and the Lake ( near and on which the City stands ) affords divers sorts of fresh Fish ; as Pike , Roch , Carp , Tench , &c , and above all the best and biggest Carps of Europe ; so many are my Extravagancies , and so unpardonable the mistakes which the Author hath found out to upbraid me with in so great a volume .

16. Let us next look upon those errors which he pretends to have discovered in the Short View of the Life and R●ign of King Charles , which he p●omiseth calmly to discover , in his Answer to the Animadversions , fol 7. The first mistake which he objects in that short view is , That King James design●d the Spanish match in order to the recovery of the Palatinate , whereas that match had been projected for Prince H●nry , and af●er his death for the P●int● then being , before the Elector Palatine's accepting the Crown of Bohemia , pag. 2. fol. 103. This is no more then what I very well knew before , having by me a Co●py of the Instructions , which King James gave to John Lord Digby . for his resuming the treaty of this match , the said Instructions being signed at Linco●n , in his Majestys progress towards Scotland , Anno 1617. But the business having been coldly m●nnaged for three or four years , without any visible advance , it was more hotly followed and negotiated in o●der to the Recovery of the lost Palatinate , then it had been formerly ; and therefore the negotiating of it is ascribed to that point of time , which gave most life to it , and was the sole occasion of the Princes voyage . Being in Spain , he was necessitated ( saith the short view of his Life ) to hold a plausible correspondence with the Catholick Par●y , p. 2 fol. 15. which Title I therefore gave them there , that I might show some fair compliance with him in relating the story . And if I give the like Title any where to our English Papists , as he saith I do , there can be no such ill use made of it ( the term being taken in late times for a second notion ) as in giving Bellarmine or Pits , or any other Learned Papists , the name and Appellation of a Catholick Writer . More reason is there in the next though it be but little . I must be charged for saying that Laughorne , Powel , and Poyer , the three Welch Commanders , submitted to that mercy which they never tasted , because forsooth , Poyer onely suffered death , as the others did not , which though it be undoubedly true , yet the Proposition stands good howsoever ; it being as undoubtedly true that they submitted to that mercy which they never tasted ▪ if one of them never tasted of that mercy unto which he submitted . But the next Error exceeds all that ever was committed by the Pen of an Historian , discovered in these words of the short view , viz. that Prince Charles being taken from the care of his Women , was committed to the Pedagogy of M. Thomas Murrey , a Scot by Nation , sufficiently qualified for that service , but otherwise ill principled in the Rites and Ceremonies of the Church of England . Not so , saith he , but S●r James Full●rton had the charge also of his Education as well as Murrey ; and yet that charge which Fullerton had in his education , was not to be called a Pedagogy , but a super-intendency ; he being placed as Governour over the young Duke , in which capacity Sir Thomas Challoner served King James in the Education of Prince Henry , not as his Pedagogue , or Tutor , far greater is the injury done to M. Murrey , in taxing him as dis-affected to the English Church , of whom he telleth us , that when he was made Provost of Eaton , he took his Oath , and therein professed his good liking of our discipline , as appears by the Cabala . p. 2. fol. 1. But what if no such thing do appear in the Cabala , but the contrary rather : Then certainly M. Fuller is more out of the way then he was before , and cannot but give us a tast of his old zeal to the Puritan Party upon all occasions . We find a Letter in his Cabala , from the Lord Keeper Williams to the Marquess of Buckingham , p. 66. wherein he makes many just objections against Murreys preferment to that place , suspecting him to be averse from the Church-Government , and adding , that if it should be so , his advancement to that place ( considering the number of Fellows and Students there ) would be the greatest blow which had been given to the Church in 50. years . In a Postscript to which Letter he subjoyns this Note , that M. Murrey had since come to him , and that he had schooled him soundly against Puritanism , which he dissavowed , though somewhat faintly . Call you me this the taking of an Oath , or the prosessing in it of a good affection to the English discipline ? An Oath he possibly might take at his admission , to keep the Statutes of the Colledge ; but there is no such oath as binds him to profess a liking of the English Discipline . And these being all the knots which he can find in this Bulrush , are neither proved so many , nor so hard to unty , as the Reader might have been perswaded , by the first overture which was made of this Calmne Discovery .

17. I could not so much forget my self to be a Parson , as not to Christian my own child first ; which chare being done , I am the most at leisure to attend my Adversary , of whose parts and praise I shall not speak , because I would not take a work our of his hands , which he thinks no man so fit to do as himself . And therefore I shall onely take such a measure of him as he makes of himself in this Appeal ; where he spends much more time in justification of the Errors , falsities and mistakes which are charged upon him , then would have served to have written a far better History . In order whereunto we find a preparation couched in fourteen Chapters , to smooth the way before his favourable Readers , that they might judge the more indulgently of his slips and failings . Such care and pains for bespeaking friends in his excuse , argues him conscious to himself of far more Errors then he is willing to confess in the face of the World . The like may be collected also from the fear he had of falling into the hands of the Animadvertor , which takes up the whole second Chapter of his Apparatus ; and where there is a fear , there must be some guilt , some doubt at least that all is not well as it should have been ▪ The Animadvertor was not of such eager spirit , as to let fly at every one which came in his way , and possibly might never have heard of this Church History , ( living far of , and no such trading in the Books of the time ) if the frequent clamours of the wrongs done to the Church and Clergy had not come to his ears before the Book it selfe had been brought to his hands . And when it was brought into my hands , it found me so far unresolved to do any thing in it , that nothing but invincible importunity could have drawn me to the undertaking . The Appealant therefore may be sure , that I never sent him any such message , as that if I had not been visited with bl●ndness , I would have been upon his bones before that time ; of which , whosoever did it from him , he knew as little of my corporal blindness , which I thank God is not yet fallen on me , as he did of my secret intentions , as to that particular , so far as I was from sending anysuchmessage to him , that I resolved not to be known for the Author of those Animadversions , whensoever they should come abroad , and to disguise my self the better , related in the Margin to a passage in my own Cosmogrophy , fol. 19 , which now the Appealant chargeth on me , as a solecism in point of Heraldy , in laying mettal upon mettal , p. 2. fol. 12.

18. My Authors first fears being fallen upon him , he finds himself brought under a new debate , whether he should return an Answer to the Animadversions , or sit down in silence . The cause being pleaded on both sides , he resolves at last to return a plain full and speedy Answer , fol. 3. Full enough I confess of needless questïons and disputes , which rather showed a Resolution not to bear the Quarrel , then an ability to maintain it . I remember I have somewhere read of a famous Wrastler , who being many times overthrown , who did suddenly start up , and by an Eloquent Oration , perswaded the people , that he rather fell by the slip of his own foot , then by the strength of his Adversary : Such a wrastler I have met with in the present Appealant , who imputes all his faults to slips , slips of the Pen , slips Pretal ( as he words it ) and slips of memory . To which three heads the Greatest Errors and mistakes which occurs in the faltiest and falsest writing , may notunfitly be reduced , so much the fuller in regard he hath incorporated the greatest part of the Animadversions into the body of his Book ; which if abstracted from the rest of the Authors , one would make the Greater Book of the Law ( upon a just a perfect Calculation of the line and folio's ) by one part in five , Fuller then otherwise it needed , or could have been by making use of such of the additionall Notes intended more for supplement and illustration , then the disparagement of the Author , or disgrace of the work . But my Adversary thinks his work so perfect , as to stand no more in need of Illustration , then it doth of Correction ; supplements supposing some defects , as Corrections presuppose some Errors . Onely I hope the Animadversions will be well paid for before all is done , the Authors being so well paid for the first Original ( as is said before ) and the Appealant better paid by the Book-sellers , and his many Patrons ( to whom they are presented like the prayers of some old Mendicants at the doors of their good Masters and Dames ) for the transcript of them .

19. But whether it be full or not , I am sure it is more full then speedy : For though the Appealant would be thought to be furnished with the Pen of a ready Writer ; yet had he time and leisure more then enough for a greater Work , considering what helps he had to set it forward , and therefore I may say in the words of Sampson , that if he had not ploughed with my heifer , he must have askt more time ( though otherwise he had time enough ) to have read my Riddle . If Mason , one of the Correctors to some Presses in London , had not falsely and unworthily communicated the sheets to him as they came from the Press , we might have heard of this Appeal about Michaelmas next , in case it had not cooled in the heats of Summer , and been retarded by the leisure of a long vacation . But making use of this Advantage , and having all such other helps as the Libraries and shops in London , the use of his own hands and eyes , the contribution of his friends , and an excellent memory to boot could supply him with , it could not come abroad against Easter term , without the Midwifery of three Presses to assist at the Labour : The making of a full and speedy Answer ( for it must be both ) could not else have agreed with that want of leisure , his many various imployments , and coming twice a Lords day to the Pulpit , ( which without oftentation , he pretends to in that very Chapter ) But some like Aesops fellow servants ( whom he tells me of ) presumes so much upon themselves , as to promise that they can do all things , and that whatever thing they do shall be full and speedy , though there be little speed and less fulness in them .

20. So much being said of the Appealant in reference to his engaging and dispatch ; let us behold him next in his qualifications . One of the fellow servants of the Animadvertor , a fellow sufferer with him in the cause of the King , and one of the same party in the Church . All this I am very glad to hear of , and am sorry I did not hear it sooner , especially if there be any truth ( as I hope there is ) in the insinuation . My fellow servant if he were , it must not be in the capacity of a Chaplain in Ordinary ( for I never saw his name in the list of the forty eight ) accompanied with his fixt times of Attendants , as the others were , but supernumerary and at large , of whom there is no notice taken in the Court , though they may make som noise in the Country . And a sufferer he could not be , because he willingly relinquisheth both his cure and prebend , which he advanceth by the name of none of the worse Benefices , and one of the best Prebends in England ; not holding both or either of them , till they were forcibly taken from , him as well as from the rest of his brethren , fol. 2. no suffering where no injury or wrong is offered , and there can be no injury done in disposing that which he so willingly abandoned , as he saith himself ; for volenti non fit injuria , as the saying is , never applyed more aptly then on such emergencies : And if he were of the same Party in the Church ; ( as he saith he was ) he would have show'd some greater zeal in maintenance of the intress and concerments of it , some greater measure of compassion towards those poore men , who being spoiled of their Goods and Livings by the infelicity of the times , must afterwards be spoil'd of their good name , and living fame , by such undeserved reproaches as he layes upon them . He speaks unto us now in the voice of Jacob , but in the History he handleth both the Church and Church-men , even from the highest to the lowest with the hands of Esau , so that it might be said two justly , quid verba audiam , cum facta videam ? What credit may be given to words , when they are confuted by our Actions .

21. But whatsoever suspitions and sinister opinions might formerly have been conceived of him , he either is not the same man he was , or hath been hitherto mistaken for the man he was not . At the least intimation of disloyal thoughts , he flyes out into an open defiance , fol. 55. and wishes that the Ravens of the valley ( who he beholds as Loyal subjects ) would in vindication of the Eagle their soveraign , pick out his eyes . If any such Rebellious Doctrine can be found in his book , as he conceives himself to be charged withal by the Animadvertor , fol. 45. He now professeth that he doth not derogate in the least degree from the power of the Church , fol. 55. and wished ( without Pharisaical pride ) that his Mother would not onely spit in his face , but spew him also out of her mouth , if either by his Pen or practise , he had done any thing unworthily ( to the best of his knowledge ) to the destroying of her interess by his Pen or his Practise , fol. 14. He now declares himself so well affected to the late Arch-Bishop , as to have spoken two and twenty lines in his commendation , fol. 46. Referring us to the places in his History , where they are to be found and rancking them under four Heads in as many Columes , in reference to his Naturals , Morals Intellectuals , and spirituals , fol. 67. so much affection he expresseth for the sequestred Clergy , that he appealeth to the searcher of all hearts , if he did not desire to do them all just favour , as he hoped to find favour from him when he most needed it ; so far forth as it might be done without running himself into apparent danger ; assuring all who chance to read him , that his Tongue and Pen hath been , and shall be tender of their reputations , p 3. fol. 56. He now declares that he doth cordially wish well to the cause of the Hierarchy , fol. 46. and affirms absolutely not onely that he hath not in any place of his Books declared himself for a Presbyterian in point of Government ; but that if ever he had scattered such a syllable which might countenance such presumption , he would presently snatch it up again , for fear ( if I rightly understand him ) of giving scandal to himself , and offence to others , p. 2. fol. 91. Yet as Basurius in the Comedy , said of Captain Bessus , that he was none of those that believed his conversion from Coward ; so I much fear that very few will believe any conversion in our present Appealant , as the former passages and protestations do pretend unto . But for my part , I have such an easinesse of nature in me , as to give credit to so many asseverations , though many passages in this Appeal might encline me otherwise , not being willing to force any man out of the Church ( as was Tertullian by the continual clamours and reproaches of the Roman Clergy ) as long as he desires to remain in the bosome of it . All therefore I shall say at the present time , is that which he himself hath said of Dr. Theodore Price , ( with a little variation onely ) that is to say , That if he be a true Sonne of the Church , 't is the better for him ; but the contrary hath been generally reported , Printed , and believed , p. 3. fol. 79.

22. These preparations being thus laid down , the points which he denyeth still remain in difference between us will be very few . His Confessions being all allowed ( as of common course ) be Traverses submitted to the Rule of the Court . His first Avoidings being offered to the judgement , and his last presented and directed to the Eye of the Reader . And first beginning with the Brittains , the Arguments which he hath offered , against the judgement of Bishop Goodwin , and Mr. Cambden , two Right Learned Antiquaries , prove nothing to the contrary of that which I have affirmed ; that is to say , that though the Brittains had many Topical and Tutelar Gods ; yet that the Druides instructed them in the knowledge of one supream deity , as had been taught by many of the learned Gentiles both Greeks and Romans , no more then it may be truly said of the present Papists , that they acknowledge and adore but one supream God , notwithstanding their superstitious worshipping of so many National , Typical , and Tutelor Saints , whom they embrace as Patrons of their persons , and their several Countrys . And as for his Derivation of the name of London , from the western Llan-dian , it stands but as it did before as a fancy onely ; no proof being made that Diana was known by that name amongst the Brittains , before the coming of the Romans . p. 2 p. 52. The great Welsh Antiquary whom he speaks of , might say well enough , that the Brittains called Diana by the name of Dain , but proves not that she was so called before the Romans came amongst them ; the Argument which he brings from Guarthey Demol , that is to say , Diana's Castle , being so farre fetched ( considering the little or no Analogy ) betiwixt Dain and Demol that nothing can be built upon it . Nor finds he any countenance in it from the Annotations of the famous Selden and the Polyol bion . For Selden was not Selden , when he made those Notes , which were were written in the year 1612. as one of the first Essayes of his Great Abilities . And being that the whole depends on the story of Brute , which all our learned Antiquaries have exploded as an idle fiction , the Derivation from Llan-Dian , falls together with it . For Selden doth otherwise plead for the story of Brute for to come up to the design of Drayton ; or to show rather how much he could be able to say in defence of a truth , who hath delivered so much Learning , in defence of a Fable , as commonly men spend their greatest wits in maintaining Paradoxes , When M. Fuller can point me out to that Isle of Largeria , where Bruit is said to make his Prayers unto Diana ; I shall not only entertain the story of Bruit , and the Etymologie of London from Llan-dian , but shall give that Island some fit place in my Cosmography , whensoeuer it shall come to a new Edition ; till then I must behold it as one of those Islands , which is not to be found in all or any of our Mapps , as Don Quixot said right truly to Sancho Pancha .

23. Next coming to the time of the Saxons deviding Gloster-shire into three chief parts , * p. 2. fol. 6. laying the parts beyond the Severn to the Welsh or Brittanes , those on this side the Severn to the Realm of West-Sex , and Cotswald , with the Vail adjoyning between Glosester and Worcester , to the Kingdom of Mercia , makes not that place were Augustine gave a meeting to the Brittish Bishops , to be in the confines of the Wiccians and West Saxons , as he saith it was : that part of Glostershire which lay on the other side the Severn , and some part of the Cotswald division of it being interposed : And as for the mistake , * p. 1. p. 67. in making Jeffery of Monmouth ( who was brought in for a principal witness ) to be the fore-man of the Grand Inquest impannelled at the arraignment of the said Augustine , for murthering the Monks of Banchor ( which in a man who wholly trusts to the eyes of a mother , may be easily pardoned ) it makes no difference in the case for which it was produced by the Andimadvertor ; rather it makes for confirmation of the point which is there delivered , Jeffery of Monmouth being brought in as the principal witness , by whom the Jurors were to be directed in the course of their evidence . The conversion of the Saxons being thus passed over , the Author speaks of the beginning of the several languages , how truly , let the Reader judge , by comparing the Animadversions thereupon , with the Answer to them ; and in particular affirms , that the Hebrew was the common tongue of all the world , before it was inclosed into several Languages , Ch. Hist. lib. 2. fol. 65. Which proposition seeming groundless to the Animadvertor , he took occasion to discourse upon these four Questions . First , Whether the Hebrew were the tongue which was spoken in Paradise . Secondly , Whether it were the common language in all the World , before the confusion . Thirdly , whither it were appropriated to Heber and his Posterity , as the proper Language of that line . Fourthly , Whether Abraham brought it into the Land of Canaan with him , or found it spoken by the Natives at his coming thither ? The two first of these four Questions , are held in the affirmative by the Church Historian , and for the proof thereof he pretends unto some Authorities ; which whether they be strong enough to conclude the point , is left ( as all the other points betwixt us ) to the Readers Judgment . But the Appealant being unwilling to take any information from the Animadvertor , and yet not able to confute the Arguments by him alledged , against the common opinion in the other two , he is fain to shift off that Dispute in such a way , as would have been called a tergiversation in another man : For mark the weighty reasons which induce him to decline that Controversie , and not to * p. 2. fol. 14. gratifie the Animadvertor with a better Answer , till either it should come in his way or make for his wish , which happy conjuncture we may hear of at New-years-tide next : The first whereof is to show his liberty , that he is free-born , and not bouod to Lacquey after the Animadversions , when he hath other business of his own . The second is to wean the Animadvertor from his moreseness , by not indulging too much to his humour therein . The last to time his own and his Readers pains , that he may more seasonably spend them hereafter on matters of more importance . Our Author here like Captain Bessus , skips over the fight , or rather runs plainly ou● of the field , leaving the Animadvertor the sole Master of it . With how much greater care of preserving his credit , might he have cut of this unluckie section with a thrifty &c. as he doth some others , or totally pretermitted it as not worth the looking after ; which prudent omission he makes use of frequently , when he meets with any knot which he cannot untye : Or rather how happy had it been , if he had entered on these considerations , before he ventured on the work ; and in like manner passed over all the rest of the Animadversions ; by doing which he might have more gratified himself , by sparing so much pretious time to a better purpose , then he hath gratified the Animadvertor in the want of an Answer : But he proclaims himself free-born , and may therefore speak both when he list , and what he list , by his Fathers Coppy .

In the mean time I must change my own , and instead of finding fault with the Appealant for some sins of omission , must save my self as well as I can from a sin of commission ; I mean from a supposed error which he lays upon me , in making the small River of Lech to fall into the Thames neer Lechled , whereas Thames saith he , * p. 2. fl● . 15. is more then eighteen miles from Lechled by land , and thirty by water , not taking the name untill the confluence of Thame with Isis , nere to Dorchester in Oxford-shire . But by his leave , though our great Critiques call that part of this River which ariseth in Glocester-shier by the name of Isis , yet it is known to all the people inhabiting on each side thereof , in the Counties of Glocester , Wilts , Berks , and Oxford , by no other name then that of Thames : Our Author having lived seventeen weeks in Oxford , as he saith himself , cannot chuse but know , that it is called there by that name , and by no name else ; and should he travel from Dorchester to the head of that River , and enquire of any whom he met with for the River of Isis , it would be as hard for them to direct him to it , as it is for him to point me to the Isle of Largeria , or for Dame Miso to find out the Oudemian street in Mantinaea ; whereas the name of Thames is so known amongst them , that every child of seven years of age which lives neer the River , can direct him to it . The nominations by the rules of Logick , are taken commonly from the Name of the principal part ; and by that rule this River may properly be called the Thames , before the confluence or meeting of Thame and Isis : Nor am I so much mistaken as he makes me in K. Haralds Mother , whom out of Cambden p. 2. p. 24. he calls Githa , and I call Theyra out of Reusner , one of the most exact and painful Genealogists that ever travelled in those studies . And therefore probably , that Lady might have two names which was no rare matters in those times , or might be called Theiras , by the Danes , and Githa by the Saxon Writers ; and so both Authors being reconciled , the Animadvertor may be in the right , though the Appealant be not in the wrong . And as for Harolds Title by his Mother to the Crown of England , I doubt not but I may be able to prove that his Title to it as brother by the whole blood , to Harald , Hartiger , and by the half blood to Canulus the second , was little worse then that of Edward the Confessor , as the Son of Elthdred .

24. Proceed we next unto the Kings of the Norman Race , and the first thing he quarrelleth in me , is my denying Richard Duke of York to be Earl of Cambridge , p , 1. fol. 34. And I conceive I had good reason so to do , not finding them amongst the Earls of Cambridge in Glovers Catalogue of Honour , published by Mills of Canterbury , a right knowing man , not finding this amongst the other of his Titles in the Tables of the Dukes of Yorke , or the Capitulations made betwixt him and King Hen. the 6. nor in any one of his many Children , though Edmund his third Sonne was made Earl of Rutland ; which Title had been formerly conferred on Edward Duke of York in his Fathers life time . And though I give no credit to Ralph Brook whom I have found to be as full of Errors as our Author himself ; yet the Authority of Augustine Vincent shall prevail for the present , and so let it go . But then our Author might have found in the Animadversions , that admitting Richard Duke of Yorke to be Earl of Cambridge , he must have been the seventh not the eighth Earl of it , as he saith he was , and then that Errors lies before our Authors Doors as before it did . And then again whereas our Authors tells us . p. 2. fol. 49. that it is questionable whether his Father ( that is to say , Richard of Conningburg Earl of Cambridge , were Duke of York ) I must needs look upon it as a thing unquestionable , and so must all men else which are skilled in Heraldry ; that Richard being executed at Southampton by King H●n . the 5. before Edward Duke of York , his elder Brother had been slain at the Battel of Agen-Court .

25. But whereas our Author thinks it not onely difficult , but impossible to defend a Title of the House of Lancaster to the Crown of England , except I can challenge ●the priviledge of the Patriarch Jacob , by crossing my hands to prefer the younger child in the succession before the Elder . p. 2. fol. 43. admitting Richard the Second to resign the Crown , or dying without children by course of nature . For I behold Hen. of Bullingbrook , Duke of Lancaster , as Cousin German to that King , and consequently his nearest Kinsman at that time , wherein Edmund Mortimer , Earl of March , in whom remained the Rights of the House of Clarence , was but Grandchild to the Lady Philip , Daughter and sole Heir of Lionel , Duke of Clarence , and consequently more remote by two degrees from King Richard the Second then the other was . By which proximity of blood , as Edward the Third laid claim to the Crown of France , and Philip the Second carried the Crown of Portugal ; and Robert Bruce the Crown of Scotland against the Balions ; so I am confident of some ability to prove , that Henry of Bullingbrook , Duke of Lancaster , had a better Title to this Crown , then the house of Mortimer . For thoughby the common Law of England he may find it otherwise , yet there are many things in the common Law , which cannot extend to the succession of the Kings of England ; as in the case of Aliens , which was that of King James , or in the case of Parseners , as in that of the two Daughters of King Hen. the 8. or in that of the half blood in the case of the sisters of King Edw. the 6. and finally in that of the tenure by curtesie in the case of King Philip the 2d of Spain , admitting that Queen Mary had been Mother of a living Child . And now I am fallen on these matters of Heraldy , I will make bold to take in a Remembrance of the House of the Mountagues , descended in the Principal branches of it , from a Daughter of King Edw. the Third , concerning which , our Author tells us , that I have made up such a heap of Errors as is not to be paralelled in any Author , which pretends to the emendation of another , p. 2. fol. 37. How so ? because forsooth I have made Sir Edward Mountague the Grand-child of the Lord chief Justice , and the first Lord Mountague of Broughton , not to have been the elder Brother of Henry Earl of Manchester , and James Bishop of Winton , but their Brothers Son . But first this Error was corrected in a Postscript to the Examen Historicum , before he could accuse me of it , and consequently he doth but Actum agere , and fit a Plaister for that sore , which had before been cured by a better Chyrurgion ; Secondly , This can be at the most but a single Error , in case it had not been retracted , and therefore no such heap of Errors , as is not to he paralelled in any other .

And Thirdly , It appears by another passage in this present Appeal , p. 2. fol. 96. that he had seen the Postscript to the said Examen , which rendereth him the more inexcusable , by raising such an out-cry on no occasion . In which passage he taxeth me with sallery in my third endeavour , touching the late Barons of that House , in making the said Sir Edward Mountague , to be Lord Mountague of Broughton in Northamptonshire , which acknowledged for one of his Mannors , but not his Barronie . For I knew well that Broughton , and not Broughton gave the nomination to this branch of that Family ( having never heard before of any Estate they had in Broughton . ) And therefore I must needs charge this Error , which he so triumpheth at , as one of the Errata's which were made at the Press , though not observed when the sheets were read over to me , and so not Printed with the rest . Less candidly deals he with me in another place , about the mistaking of a number , that is to say , 1555. for 1585. p. 1. fol. 41. The Errors being meerly pretal ( as is own phrase is ) And this he could not chuse but see , though he can winck sometimes when it makes best for his meeting of that precedent once again , on a more particular occasion then was given at the present , where the time thereof is truly stated , and where he spends some few lines in relation to it , so that the motion was direct , not Retrograde , but that he had a mind to pull me a little back , seeing how much I had got the start of him in the present race . And as for the Error in the Errata , I know not how it came ; but a friend of mine in reading over the first sheets as they came from the Press , had put a Quere in the Margin , whether Melkinus , or Felkinus ; and that afterwards by the ignorance , or incogitancy of my Amanuensis , it might be put in amongst the rest of the Errata , which is all that I am able to say , as to that particular .

26. Our Author had affirmed , that St. Davids had been a Christian some hundred years , whilst Canterbury was yet Pagan . The contrary whereof being proved by the Animedvertor , he flyes to Caerleon upon Vsk . p. 2. fol. 29. by which instead of mending the matter , he hath made it worse . Mistaking wilfully the point in difference between us . For if the Reader mark it well , the question is not whether St. Davids or Canterbury , were the Ancienter Archi-Espiscopal See , or how many hundred years the one was elder then the other ; but for how long time Canterbury had continued Pagan , when the other was Christian , which he acknowledgeth to be no more then 140 years , as was before observed by the Animadvertor . And though Caerleon upon Vske had been an Archi-Episcopal See , some hundreds of years , before that honour was conferred on the City of Canterbury ; yet Canterbury might be be Christian as soon as Caerleon upon Vske ( for any thing our Author can affirm to the contrary , and was undoubtedly such at the first coming in of the Saxons ) though afterwards for the space of 140. years , as before is said , it remained Pagan , so that our Author might have spared his pains in proving the Metropolitans of St. Davids , to be successors unto them of Caerleon ( which was never denyed ) unless he could infer from thence , that Caerl on was Senior in Christianity unto Canterbury for four hundred years ( as he expresly saith it was ) as well as in the Metrapolitical Dignity invested in it . And this if he can do , I shall conclude him willingly for a subtle Logitian , though I shall hardly ever allow him for a sound Historian .

27. The like imperfect defence he makes about the time when Lillies Grammer was imposed by King Hen. the 8. on all the Grammer Schools of England , plac'd by him in the 11th year of that King , Anno 1619 which was full eleven years before it was ordered by the Convocation of the year 1630. ut una edatur formula , Authoritate hujus sacrae Synodi , &c. that one onely form of Teaching Grammer should be enjoyned from thenceforth by the authority of the Convocation to be used in all the Grammer Schools of the Province of Canterbury . And questionless the Clergy in their Convocation would not have troubled themselves , in ordering one onely Form of Grammer to be taught in all the Schooles of the Province of Canterbury , if the King so many years before had commanded Lillies Grammer to be used in all the Schools of England . Considering therefore , that this order of the Convocation , preceded the command of King Henry the 8. and that Lilly dyed some years before the making of this Order ( as our Author plainly Appeal . p. 2. f. 56. proves he did ) the difference between us may be thus made up , that Lillies Grammer being one of those many , the multiplicity whereof had been complained of in that Convocation , was chosen out of all the R●st , by the Convocation , as fittest for the publick use , and as such Recommended by the King to all the Grammer Schools within his Dominions . The Animadvertor was mistaken , in making Lilly to be living after the Convocation , who was dead before . And yet he discovers no such indiscretion , not made any such cavelling at a well timed truth in the Authors Book , as the Appealant lays upon him ; the time of the imposing , and not the making of Lillies Grammer , being the matter in dispute , in which the Appealant must be found as much mistaken for the Reasons formerly laid down , as the Animadvertor in the other .

28. His next defence is worse then this , because he finds not any shift to convey himself out of the Reach of the Animadversion , For finding it so clealy proved from the words of the instrument , that the payment of the 100000. for the Province of Canterbury , was to be made in five years , and not in four , which he held most probable , he hopes to save himself , by saying , that not reckoning the first ● 2. f. 59. summe which was paid down on the n●il , they had just four years assigned them for the payment of the remaind●r . And so indeed it must have been , if the first twenty thousand pound had been paid down upon the nail , as he saith it was , but indeed was not ; the instrument of that Grant bearing date the 22. of March , 1530. and the first payment to be made at Michaelmas following . As bad an Auditor he is in casting up the smaller summe of Pilkintons pension , as in the true stating of this payment , making no difference , no great difference betwixt taking away 1000 l. yearly from the Bishoprick , and charging it with an annual pension of 1000 l. For he that hath 1000 l. per annum , in Farms and Mannors , may pay p. 2. f. 70. a 1000 l. pension yearly out of it to a publick use , and reserve a good Revenue out of it for his own occasions , by fines and casualties in the Renovation of E●●ates , and in such services and provisions for domestick uses as commonly are laid upon them .

29 Our Author tells us of the Homilies , as a Church Historian , That if they did little good , they did little harm ; but he avows as an Appealant , that he hath as high an esteem of them as the Animadvertor . p. 2. fol. 87. And then I am sure he must needs acknowledge them to be in a capacity of doing much good , and no harm at all , which is directly contrary to his first Position . That the Homilies had been Reproached by the name of Homily Homilies , by many of the Puritan faction ; I have often heard , but never heard before , that they had been called so by any of the same party with the Animadvertor , and am as farre as ever I was from knowing whom that one man should be who did call them so , he not being named by the Appealant , Where by the way the Author hath uncased himself , & appears in his own proper person , without any disguise : for having first told us in the second Chapter of his Apparatus , that he was one of the same party with Dr. Heylyn , he now declares himself to be of the other , and well it had been , saith he , for the peace and happiness of the Church , if the Animadvertor , and all of his party had as high an esteem as the Author hath , &c. where if the Author hath not plainly declared himselfe to be of a different party from the Animadvertor ( his many protestations & pretences notwithstanding ) I must needs think my selfe as much darkned in my understanding , as in my Bodily sight , when he can extricate himselfe out of this entanglement , I may perhaps think fit to enter on a set discourse , whether the Images of God and his Saints may be countenanced in Churches ( I know by the word Countenancing whom he chiefly aims at ) without a visible opposition to the second Homily of the second Book , but till then I shall not .

30. As little am I bound to return any answer to his Argument taken , Acts 2. 27. against the Local descent of Christ into H●ll ; this being not a fit time and place for such set discourses . The question and dispute between us , relates unto the judgement of the Church of England touching this particular , in which he cannot concur with the Animadvertor , that any such Local descent hath constantly been maintained by the Church of England . But that this is the positive Doctrine of the Church of England , appears first , by giving that Article a distinct place by its selfe , both in the Book of Articles published in the time of King Edward the 6. Anno 1552. and in the Book agreed upon in the Convocation of the 5. of Queen Eliz. An. 1562. In both which it is said expresly in the self same words , That as Christ dyed for us and was buried , so is it to be believed that he went down into Hell , which is either to be underderstood of a Local descent , or else we are tyed to believe nothing by it but what explicitely and implicitely is comprehended in the former Article , in which there is a particular mention of Christs sufferings , crucifying , death and Burial . This appears secondly , by the exposition of this Article , in the Catechism of Mr. Alexander Nowel , Dean of St ▪ Pauls , who being Prolocutor of the Convocation , Anno 1562. ( when this Article by reason of those words of S. Peter , touching Christs preaching to the spirits in prison , ( which before was in it ) was brought under debate ) is not to be supposed to be ignorant of the Churches meaning in that point : And he accordingly in that Catechism ( commanded to be taught in all the Schools of this Kingdom ) doth declare expresly , ut Christus corpore in terrae viscera , ita anima corpore seperate ad inferos descendit , &c. that is to say , ( according to the English Translation of it , published in the year 1512. ) as Christ in his body descended into the bowels of the Earth , so his soul severed from the body , he descended into Hell , and that therewith also the virtue of his death so pierced through to the dead , and to very hell it self , that both the souls of the unbelieving felt their painful and just damnation for infidelity , and Satan himself the Prince of Hell felt that all the power of his tyranny and darkness , was weakened , vanquished , and fallen to ruine . And thirdly it appears by the learned and laborious work of D. Thomas Bilson . Bishop of Winton , a co●temporary for the greatest part of his life , which the said M. Nowel , and a stout assertor of this Doctrine of a Local descent ; against : the new sence put upon the Article , by the Sect of Calvin , not to descend to ●any instances of a lower date . Which Arguments if they do not seem sufficient to make good the point , let our Author answer them ; and then , as he now confesseth himself to be one of that party , I shall so afterwards account him for Pars Magna too , one of the principal pillars and supporters of it .

31. He tells us in his History of a Statute made in the thirteenth of the Queen against covetous conformists , by which it was provided , That no Spiritual person , Colledg , or Hospital , should l●t a Lease other then for twenty one years , or three lives . For which being justly taxed by the Animadvertor , there being no such thing as covetous Conformists to be found in that Statute ; he justifies himself by saying , That if the Animadvertor will say they were Conformists ( as indeed they were ) he then dares swea● ( if called hereunto ) that they were covetous , as who by unreasonable Leases ( as the Statutes call them ) w●ste● the Lands of the Church , till they were seasonably retrenched by that wholesom Law . But first , the Animadvertor will not say ( because he cannot ) that they were Conformists , having already said the contrary in his Animadversions ; for there it may be found expresly , that the Nonconformists by that time had got a great part of the Church Preferments , and were more likely to occasion those delapidations , then the regular and conformable Clergy , this latter looking on the Church with an eye to succession , the former being intent only on the present profit : And thereupon he ads this note that covetousness and inconformity ( if we mark it well ) are so married together , that it is not easie to divorce them , though here the crime of Covetousness be wrongfully charged on the Conformists to make them more odious in the eye of the vulgar Reader . All which the Appealant cunningly cuts off with an &c. p. 2. so . 88. And then cryes out with admiration , how much he wondreth at the Animadvertor , advocating for their actions so p. 1. f. 47. detrimental to the Church , who though otherwise they might be Regular in other things , were in this one Regular to the Rules of Avarice . So tender is our Author of his non-●onformists , as not to bring them to the light , or suffer there name to come in question , a● Parcel Guilty at the least , if not obnoxious altogether to the acculation : and thereupon to mend the matter , he tells us , that if the Epithet of Covetous be so offensive , he will change it in his next Edition into sacril●gious , as in a line or two before , that though conformity did not make them Covetous , yet Covetousness , perhaps , might make them conformable ; which dashes more disgrace upon them ( though he seem studiously to decline it ) then any thing that ever was laid upon them by any whelp of old Martins Litter , when the Heats were greatest .

32. This Passage with some other , which are next to come , begin to stagger me , and make me very apt to think that the Lord Bacurius was in the right , when he delieved there was no such conversion from coward in Captain Bessus , as report made of it . For look upon him in his judgement about the power of the Church , and we should find but little cause to give much credit to his protestations , and Declarations , as to that particular . He tells us , p. 1. fo. 45. that he never deprived the Church of her authority , and fo. 53. that he derogates not in the least degree from the power of the Church ; and p. 2. fo. 55. that if his Back would Buttress it up , it should not be wanting , wishing ( as formerly was noted ) that if by his Pen or practise he had done any thing unworthily to the betraying of the Church of England , that the Church would not onely spit in his face , but spew him out of her mouth , fol. 14. But for all this he still persists in his own Error , in denying any power to the Church of making Canons , which are of force to binde the subject till confirmed in Parliament . In defence whereof , he mustereth all his strength together , p. 2. fo 28 as afterwards , fo. 67. 68. 69. Declaring plainly , fo. 67. in that in all the Animadvertors long discourse upon that subject , he finds very little that he hath learnt thereby , and less ( if any thing ) which he is to Alter . And notwithstanding all that hath been said by the Animadvertor , touching the not expiring of the Convocation , An. 1640. by the death of the Parliament ; yet he resolves upon the question , that after the dissolution of the Parliament , the Clarks thereof elected for their several Cathedrals , and respective Diocesses , desisted from being publick persons , and lost the notions of Representatives , and returned to their private conditions . In which capacity they might have given for themselves what summes they pleased , but could not vote away the estates of other Clergy-men , except the respective Cathedrals and Diocesses , had re elected them ; which had it been done , they might no doubt have justified the giving away of Subsidies , as authorized thereunto , though the Parliament had been dissolved .

33. So the Appealant hath resolved it , and if old Nicholas Fuller of Grays-Inne , whom he so much magnifieth ( that Fuller of Devotion , if I much mistake not , of whom I find such honourable mention in the Verses on the Parliament F — ) were alive again , he could not have mooted on the point with more zeal and ignorance . A writing is subscribed on the 10th of May , by Finch Lord Keeper , Manchester Lord Privy Seal , Littleton Chief Justice of the Common Pleas , Banks Atturney General , Witsield and Heath his Majesties Serjeants at the Law , in which it was declared expresly , that the Convocation being called by the Kings writ , ought to continue till it was dissolved by the Kings Writ , notwithstanding the dissolution of the Parliament . But what makes this unto the purpose ? Our Author , a more learned Lawyer then all these together , hath resolved the contrary , and throw it out as round as a boul , that after the dissolution of the Parliament , the Clarks of Diocesses and Cathedrals desisted from being publick persons , and lost the notion of Representatives , and thereby returned to their private condition . The Animadvertor instanced in a convocation held in the time of Queen Eliz. An. 1585. which gave the Queen a Benevolence of two shillings in the pound to be raised on the Estates of all the Clergy by the meer censures of the Church , without act of peachment ▪ Against which not able to object as to the truth and realty of it in matter of F●ct , he seems to make it questionable , whecher it would hold good or not in point of Law , if any turbulent Clergy-man had proved Recusant in payment : and having slighted by the name of a bl●ck ●wan , a single instance of an unparliamented inpowred Convocation ; he imputes the whole success of that ●ash adventure , rather unto the popularity of so Peerless a Princess the necessity of her occasions , and the tranquillity of the times , then to any efficacy or validity in the act it self . And to what purpose all this pains ? but to expose the poor Clergy of the Convocation ▪ An. ●640 . to the juster censure for following this unquestioned precedent in granting a more liberal benevolence to a gracious soveraign , by no other authority then their own .

34. If the ●ppealant still remain unsatisfied in this part of the Churches power , I shall take a little more p●ins to instruct him in it , though possibly I may tell him nothing which he knows not already , being as learned in the Canons , as in the common Law . In which capacity I am sure he cannot chuse but know how ordinary a thing it was with Bishops to suspend their Clergy not onely ab officio , but a Beneficio ; and not so onely but to sentence them , if they saw just cause for it to a deprivation . Which argues them to have a power over the property of the Clergy in their several Diocesses ; and such a power as had no ground to stand on , but the authority of the Canons , which conferred it on them . And if our Author should object , as perhaps he may , that though the Canons in some cases do subject the Clergy , not only to suspentions but deprivations of their cures and Benefices , ●in which their property is concerned ; yet that it is not so in the case of the Laity , whose Estates are not to be bound by so weak a thred : I must then lead him to the Canons of 1603 for his satisfaction . In which we find six Canons in a row , one after another , for providing the Book of Common Prayer , the Book of Homilies , the Bible of the largest Edition ; a Font for Baptism , a fair Communion Table , with a Carpet of Silk , or other decent stuff to be laid upon it ; a Pulpit for Preaching of Gods Word , a Chest to receive the alms for the Poor , and finally for repairing of the Churches or Chappels , whensoever they shall fall into any decay ; all these provisions and reparations to be made at the charges of the several and respective Parishes , according to such rates as are indifferently assest upon them by the Church wardens , Sides men , and such other Parishioners as commonly convened together in the case , which rates if any did refuse to make payment of , they were compellable thereunto , on a presentment made to the Ordinary , by the said Church-wardens , and other sworn Officers of the several and respective Parishes . And yet those Canons never were confirmed by Act of Parliament , as none of the like nature had been formerly in Queen Eliz: time , though of a continual and uncontroled practise upon all occasions . The late Lord Primate , in * Judgement of the L P. p. 112. a Letter more lately published by D. Barnard , assures the honourable person unto whom he writ it , that the making of any Articles or Canons at all to have ever been confirmed in that Kingdom by Act of Parliament , is one of Dr. Heylyns Fancies . And now it must be another of the Doctors Fancies , to say that never any Articles or Canons , had ever been confirmed by Act of Paliament in England , though possible they may relate unto the binding of the subject in point of Poperty .

35. But our Author hath a help at Maw , and making use of his five fingers , hath thrust a word into the proposition in debate between us , which is not to be sound in the first drawing up of the issue . The Question at the first was no more then this , whether such Canons as were made by the Clergy in their Convocations , and authorized by the King under the broad Seal of England , could any further bind the subject , then as they were confirmed by Act of Parliament .

And Secondly , Whether such Canons could so bind , either at such times as the Clergy acted their own Authority , or after their admission to King Hen. the 8. in such things as concerned Temporals or temporal matters , otherwise then as they were confirmed by national Customes ; that is to say , as afterwards he expounds himselfe , until they were consirmed by Act of Parliament . Which points being so clearly stated by the Animadvertor in behalf of the Church , that no honest evasion could be found to avoid his Argument ; the Appealant with his five fingers , layes down life at the stake ; and then cryes out that the Animadvertor arrogates more power unto the Church then is due unto it , either by the laws of God or man ; maintaining , ( but he knows not where ) that Church men may go beyond Ecclesiastical Censures , even to the limbs and lives of such as are Recusants to their Constitutions , p. 2. so . 53. And having taken up the scent , he hunts it over all his Book with great noise and violence , assuring us that such Canons were constantly checkt and controlled by the Laws of the Land , in which the temporal Estate , life and limbs of persons were concerned , p. 2. fol. 27. As also , that the King and Parliament , though they directed not the proceedings of Ecclesiastical Courts in cases of Heresie ( which is more then his History would allow of ) yet did they order the power of Bishops over declared Hereticks , without the direction of the Statute , not to proceed to limb and life , p. 2. fol. 45. And finally reduceth the whole Question to these two Propositions , viz. 1. The proceedings of the Canon Law , in what touched temporals of life , limb , and estate , was alwayes limited , with the secular Laws and national Customes of England . And 2ly . That the King by consent of Parliament , directed the proceedings of Ecclesiastical Courts , against declared Hereticks , so that they could not punish them in life or limb , but as directed by the statute , p. 2. fol. 69. In confutation of which Proposition , the Animadvertor is cunningly tempted to write two or three sheets , upon assurance , that it will be richly worth the Writers and the Readers pains , and the hope of having an answer to it from no worse a hand then that of the Appealant himselfe . This I shall be ready to do , whensoever he shall show me in what place of my Animadversions , or any other Book of mine whatsoever , I have maintained that the Church hath power of making Canons , which may extend either unto the life or limb of the English subject . Certain I am that no such thing ever past my hand , or c●me into my head sleeping or waking , sick or sound : and therefore this must be a device of his to render me as distastful to all sorts of people , as he hath made himselfe to all the true Sonnes of the Chruch of England , whether they be High-Royalists , or covetous Conformists , as our Autho● words it .

36. He puts it to the Readers Judgement , whether p. 2. f. 43 : any man alive can from these words , viz. The right lay not in this Henry , but in Mortimer Earl of March , in for an insinuation that Kings may legally be deposed . And I confefs as readily , as any other man whatsoever , that no such insinuation can be gathered from those words of his , as they are laid down in the Appeal . But then the Appealant should have took his rise a little higher , where it is said , as positively and plainly as words can speak it , that granting Ki●g Richard , either deservedly deposed , or naturally dead ▪ without issue , the Right to the Crown lay no● in this Henry , but in Edmond Mortimer Ea of March &c. for which consult , Ch. Hist. lib. 4 fo 153. And therefore let the Reader judge , whether without more Perspicacity in the Organ , or perspicuity in the Object , any man may not easily perceive such an Insinuation in the words foregoing , that Kings deservedly or legally , may be deposed . All further medling in which point as I then declined , so I have greater Reason to decline it now . And on that reason I shall spare to press him whether another of his Inferences , Apothegmes , and Maxims of State , in reference to the person of King Hen. 6. and the calami●ous death of that religious but unfortunate Prince , which I find him willing to shift off with this one evasion ( which the change of times hath made more passable then before ) ▪ that the less we touch on this harsh string , the better the Musick , p. 2. fol. 53.

37. These points relating to the King and the Church , being thus passed over , the residue of the things or matters material and effectual to be Answered , and by him denyed are neither very many , nor of any great consequence ; though truth be as much violated in a matter of the smallest moment , as in that of the greatest . That which comes first , and I must fetch a great leap to it , ( a great part of the intervening Animadversions , being either out off with a● &c. or otherwise avoyded without making any answer to them at all ) as farre as to the middle part of Queen Eliz. Raign , where I found our Author advocating in behalf of Peoples sidings , as they were used in those times , and show the dangerous consequents and effects thereof , not onely in the apprehension of King James , but of Queen Eliz. All which the Appealant shifts aside , and thinks to satisfie all expectations , in changing onely one of his expressions , which made those peoplefidings to be grounded on the words of S Paul . And therefore if you read in the next Edition , that those people sidings were but pretended to be grounded on the words of St. Paul , we mu●● then think the Arch-bishop Gryndal did well in pleading for them to the Queen , that the Queen did ill in causing them to be suppressed , and that King James was more miserably our , in dreaming of so many dangers in that Apostolical Institution ( which our Father I see a Lambe in his own can be a Lion in Gods and the Churches cause . Ch. Hist. l. 9. f. 130. entitles plainly by the name of Gods and the Ghurches Cause ) as were not to be found in it at any rate .

In the Historians relating the story of Martin Mar-Prelate , and the great injury done to the Bishops by those scandalous Libels , an occasion is taken by the Animadvertor , to put him in remembrance of a rule of his to this effect , That the fault is not in the Authour , if he truly cite what is false , on the credit of another : Which rule so dangerous in it self , and so destructive to the truth , so advantatageous to the slandering of the godliest men , and mis-reporting the Occurrents of all times and ages , is very justly faulted by the Animadvertor ; and thereupon he thus proceeds in his Animadversions , That this rule whether true or false , cannot be used to justifie our Author in many passages , though truly cited , considering that he cannot chuse but know them to be false in themselves ; and he that knowing a thing to be false , sets it down for true , not only gives the lye to his own Conscience , but occasions others also to believe a falshood : And from this charge I cannot see how he can be acquitted , in making the Bishops to be guilty of those filthy sins , for which they were to be so lashed by Satyrical wits , or imputing those base Libels unto wanton wits , which could proceed from no other fountain then malitious wickedness : All which the Appealant passeth over without taking the least notice of it ; and to say truth , he had good reason so to do , knowing that dangerous rule to be so recessary for his justification and indempnity upon every turn . And thereupon fixing himself upon this Rule . That the W●iter is faultless , who truly cites what is false on the credit of another ; he thinks he hath sufficiently confuted the Animadvertor , by telling him , that if this Rule should not be true , he must needs have a ●ard task of it ▪ in making good all things in his own Geography on his own knowledge , p. f. 2. 19. who therein hath traded on trust as much as another .

I must have been a greater Travellor then either the Greek Vlisses , or the English Mandivile , all Purchas his Pilgrims , many of our late Jesuits , and Tom Corriot too , into the bargain , if it had been otherwise ; if in describing the whole world , with all the Kingdoms , Provinces , Seas , and Iles thereof , I had not relyed more on the credit of others , then any knowledge of my own ; if the Appealant could have charged me with citing any thing for truth , which I know to be false , and justified my so doing upon the credit of any Author whom I know to be mistaken in his information , he had said somewhat to the purpose . And when he can say that I desire no favour , either from him or any other whatsoever . In the mean time if any Gentleman , Merchant , or other Travellor , shall please to let me understand in what such Authors as I trusted have not well informed me , let it be done in jest or earnest , in love or anger , in a fair manner or a foul , with respect or disrespect unto me in what way soever , I shall most thankfully receive the instruction from him , and give him the honour of the Reformation when that Book shall come to another Edition . I am not of the humour of the Appealant , or my Doughty Squire , either in kicking against those who rub upon such sores as I have aboutme , or flinging dirt on them who shall take the pains to bestow a brushing on my Coat . I was trained up when I was a child to kiss the Rod , and I can do it , I thank God , now I am a man , Cur nescire pudens pravae quam discere mallem ? rather to be ashamed of mistaking in any thing I have written , then to learn of any body what I was to write , was taken up by me both for a rule and resolution , in the very first putting out of my Geography , and I shall be at the same pass to the very last .

39. In the Raign of King James ; there remain onely two passages which are to be brought under consideration , all the rest , being either confessed , Traversed , or Avoided , as before is said . The first relates to Dr. Hackwel , whom he affirms to have been put out of his Chaplains place , for opposing the Spanish Match when first tendred to Prince Henry : But p. 2 f. 101 by his leave , Dr. Hackwel was not put out of his Chaplains place for opposing the Match , but for some indiscretion in the managing of it , for having written a well studyed peece against that Match , not without some reflections on the Spaniard , which could not be pleasing to the King ▪ he to whom he presented it , the King soon undermined him , and blew him up . For finding it to be transcribed in a very fair Character , he gave the Doctor thanks for it within few days after ; adding that he had seen few great Scholars which were Masters of so good a hand . To which when the Doctor modestly answered , that it was none of his own hand-writing , but that he was fain to make use in it , of another mans ; the King reply'd in no small choller , that he that would commit a matter of such weight and secresie to the trust of a Clark or common Scrivener , was not fit to live about a King , and so dismist him of his place without more ado . The second Relates to Dr. Davenant , Bishop of Salum , whom he affirms to have received consecration from Arch-bishop Abbot , notwithanding the Irregularity under which he was supposed to lie , by some squemish and nice conscienced Elects , which before refused it . But our Author is as much out in this , as in any thing else : for first we find in the late . Arch-bishops Breviat published by M. Prinne , An 1644. that he ( the said Bishop Laud ) was consecrated Bishop of S. Davids at the Chapel in London House , Novemb. 18. 1621 : the solemnities of the Consecration being performed by the Bishops of London , Worcester , Chichester , Ely , Landaff and Oxford , the Archbishop being thought irregular for casual Homicide . Then look into the continuation of Godwins Catalogue of Bishops , and we shall find it thus exprest . Novemb. 18. 1621. Johannes Davenant , Sacrae Theologiae Doctor , &c. ad hanc sedem , ( that is to say , the See of Salisbury ) Consecratus est una cum Exoniensi , & menevensi Electis . And certainly , if he were consecrated on Sunday , together with the Bishops of Exeter and St. Davids , as he saith he was , he must be consecrated in the same place , and by the same hands also , as the others were . Whereof see more in the said Continuation , for Laud and Cary.

40. Proceed we next unto the Raign of King Charles , where the first thing in which I am to grapple with him , relates unto his making dependance of the Kings Coronation upon the sufferage of the People . Disproved by such passages as occur in the same particular in the Coronations of King James , and King Edward the 6. But neither being willing to acknowledge the dangerous consequences of that Error , nor able to deny their words , with which he was charged , he hopes to reconcile all parties , by making little or no difference , betwixt the peoples acknowledging their Allegiance to their Soveraign , when required to do it at the Solemnities of the Coronation of the said two Kings , and the asking of their consent unto it , as is affirmed by our Author p. 3. f. 5. in the case of King Charles . Which words or Phrases he finds to encline to an agreement , there being , as he saith , not onely a vicinity , but an affinity betwixt them , and much condemns the Animadvertor for endeavouring to make the difference to be vast , exceeding vast , and utterly against the will of the words . But fearing that these Grammatical speculations would be no fit plaister for the sore , he hopes to salve the help of an old Receipt taken out of Mills , but in what age he hath not told us ; in which it is recorded , That after the King had a little reposed himself in the Chair or Throne , erected upon the Scaffold , then the Archbishop of Canterbury shall go unto the fore-squares of the Scaffold , and with a loud voice ask the good liking of the people , concerning the Coronation of the King To which it will be easily answered , that when the good liking or consent of the People , was publickly required to a Coronation , it was at such times onely , and in such cases , when the Kings came in by broken Titles , for maintenance whereof the favour and consent of the people seemed most considerable ; which consent I find to have been asked at the Coronations of King Hen. 4. and K. Rich. 3. to whose times it is very possible that the old precedent found in Mills is to have relation ; such arts were used by Otho in the Roman story , scattering abroad his Complements , distributing his Embraces , prostituting the most affectionate pledges of love and friendship , & omnia serviliter pro dominatione , as it is in Tacitus . Courses not used by any of the Kings of England , who claimed the Crown in their own Right , as their lawful inheritance , and not as Tenants to the people .

41. The next particular which we meet with , is the substituting of Viscount Doncaster , whom he makes to be assisting at his late Majesties Coronation , Feb. 2. 1625. by virtue of an office which his p. 3. f. 4. Father , is affirmed to have had in the Wardrobe . But I must needs confess my self to be much unsatisfied in the one and the other , the charge of the Wardrobe being at that time in the E. of Denbigh , and Viscount Dorchester two young to perform that service . When I have more of Assurance of the truth hereof , I shall conceive the place to be rightly mended , but till then I shall suspend my beliefe therein . The next thing which occurreth , comes in upon occasion of Bishop Andrews ; the footsteps of whose moderation are proposed as a part of those who so much admire him ; content with the enjoying , without p. 3. f. 7. the enjoyning their private practises and opinions in others ; Conceived in this to have a fling at Archbishop Laud , he disclaims all reflecting on him in that passage , confessing that he had an eye in that expression to another person , relating unto Bishop Andrews ; whom since he doth forbear to name , I shall not force him to it by my Reply , being as well able by this short Character to find out the name , as he is to direct me to him . But then the Reader is to know , that though the Appealant hath transferred the charge , from one man to another , yet it lies as heavy where he leaves it , as it did before , and that person whosoever he is , must be Reproched with enjoyning his own private Practises and Opinions upon other men . And this he is so farre from retracting , and thereby making Reparation to the party wronged , that he resolves to stand his Ground . To which end he telleth us , that the controversie in hand is about additional Ceremonies , enjoyned by no Canons . ( save some mens over imperious commanding , and others ●ver officious complying ) justly deserving the censure of private Practises . Take him Bacurius to thy charge , for I begin to find my self deceived in my expectation .

42. But he will make the Archbishop a large amends and having disclaimed all Reflections on him in the former charge , preferreth him to be of the Quorum , in the commission granted to the five Bishop● for exercising the Archi-Episcopal Jurisdiction of the Province of Canterbury . Being certified of the mistake which he might have seen rectified before in the Observations , he makes it more rediculous by his learned Gloss , telling us , p. 3. fol. 10. that he used the word Quorum , not in the legal strictnesse thereof , but in that passable sence in common discourse , viz. for one so active in a business that nothing is ( though it may be ) done without him therein , which Exposition of the word ( never heard before ) deserves for the excellency and significancy of it , to have a place in the next Edition of Cowels Interpreter , and there I shall bespeak one for it , or else in Minshaws Dictionary ( who hath filched all his Law terms from that learned Doctor ) if that first come out . As much unprofitable paines he takes in making Mr. Prinne to be born ( about Bath ) in Glocestershire ; And unto this expression he resolves to stand , though satisfied that Bath , is a chief City in the County of Sommerset , accusing the Animadvertor to have dealt disingeniously with him touching that particular . But I do not mean to quarrel with the Appealant about M. Prynne , and hope that the two Counties of Glocester and Sommerset , will not fall out about him neither , as the seven Cities once contended for the birth of Homer . For my part , I alwayes took Mr. Prynne to have been born in Sommersetshire , but if he prove a Glocestershire man , ( as I doubt he will not ) he will be so much nearer to me then he was before .

42. He hath informed us in his History , That Orders made by some of the Judges for suppres-pressing of Wakes and Revels in their several Circuits , had been enjoyned the Church-wardens to deliver Copies thereof to the Minister of every parish ; * C. Hist. l. 11. p. 147 which Ministers , were to publish the same on the first Sunday in February , and the two first Sundays before Easter , every year , ( but how the two Sundays before Easter every year , can be both called the first Sundays , I believe would puzzel the most learned Constable that ever served any such Order upon the Minister of his Parish ) prest by the Animadvertor that the Bishop might as lawfully command the Ministers in the several Diocesses , to publish his Majestie● declaration about lawful sports , as the Judges , to make publication of their several , p. 3. f. 15. orders ; he now demurs upon the point , not knowing whether the said orders were mandatory , or , by way of Advice , by which the Ministers were desired to do that which might be advantagious to Religion : From which doubt being desirous to free him , I shall subjoyn so much of the said Order , as concerns this business , viz. And to the end that this order may be better observed , it is further Ordered , that the Clark of Assize shall leave a a Copy hereof with the Clark of the Peace , and the under Sheriff ; and from them , or one of them , every Constable shall take a Copy for his several Hundred and Liberty , and shall particularly deliver a copy to the Minister of every Parish within his several Hundred and Liberty : and shall take a Note of every Minister under his hand , of the day upon which he received it from him ; and that every Minister which so receiveth it , shall publish it yearly in his Parish Church the first Sunday in February . And it is likewise further Ordered , that every Constable shall at every Lent Assize , present to the Judges of this Circuit , a note of the Receipt of the said Order , under the hands of the Minister . I shall make no Gloss upon this Clause , but present it nakedly as I find it to the Eye of my Author : who though he will not not take upon him to ●udge the Judges , ( and I know no man who desires he should ) for laying any such command upon the Ministers ; yet he will take upon him to condemn the Bishops , for requiring no more of them in their several Diocesses , then the Judges did : so strongly is he hurried by the transport of his own affections , as to make that a crime in the one , which may be justified in the other .

44. But never did he make a clearer discovery of himselfe , then he doth now upon occasion of the contest about placing the Communion Table . Whereas ( saith he ) the Animadvertor saith , That an Expedient would not have tended to that uniformity , that was designed herein , before God and man , I will speak out my thoughts . That multiformity , with mutual charity , advanceth Gods p 3. f. 20. Glory , as much as uniformity it self in matters merely indifferent ; which , as the Pipes of an Organ may be of several length and bigness , yet all tuned into good Harmony together . And if the Organs did not make a better Harmony , then our Authors Pipe is like to do , which is so tuned , that every man may dance his own dance after it , we should have very sorry Musick , and such a face of confusion over all the Church , as could not find a paralell in the worst of times . For what can else ensue upon it but a possibility , that every ward in some great City , and every street in that ward , and every Family in that street , and perhaps every person in that Family ; might use his own way of worshipping his Lord his God , which whether it would prove the means to make Jerusalem preserve the name of a City , and much less the honour of being a City which was at unity within it self , I leave unto the Judgment of the equal and unbiassed Reader : But whereas for a proof of this strange assertion , he instanceth in that great contention between the Eastern and Western Bishops , in the Primitive times , about the day on which they were to celebrate the Feast of Easter : I must needs say he could no● instance in a worse , or find out any other example for this inconformity , which could be more destructive of the hopes which he builds upon it : For though he verily believeth , as he saith he doth , that God was equally honored by both , by such as religiously observed it , I cannot think but that he also doth believe , that the contention much redounded to the dishonour of God , the disgrace of Religion , the renting of the Church into Schisms and Factions , the grief of many sober and pious Christians , and the great rejoycing of the Gentiles ; that difference begetting such animosities between the Churches , and proceeding from one heat to another , they fell at last to mutual Excommunications of the opposite parties . One thing I must confess I am glad to hear of , that is to say , that God is honoured by such men who do religiously observe the Feast of Easter ; but what offence he may give by it to some others , as I cannot guess , so neither shall I make it any part of my care : And therefore I shall leave him as he doth the Judges , as best skilled in his own faculty , to make good his own Acts.

44. Charged by the Animadvertor , for making the distractions and calamities which befel this Kingdom , to be occasioned primarily by sending a new Liturgie to the Kirk of Scotland , he positively denies that he ever said any such word , as that the Liturgie did primarily occasion the war with Scotland ; Rather ( saith he ) the clean contrary may ( by charitable Logick ) be collected from my words ; when having reckoned up a compliaction of heart burnings among the Scots , I thus conclude , Ch. Hist. Lib. 11 : 163 : Thus was the Scotish Nation full of discontents , when this Book being brought amongst them , bare the blame of their breaking forth into more dangerous designes ; as when the Cup is brim full , the last ( though least ) superadded drop , is charged alone to be cause of all the running over ; and then he adds , Till then that the word primarily can be produced out of my Book , let the Animadvertor be held primarily as one departed from truth , and secondarily , as a causless accuser of his brother . I have stood behind the Curtain all this while , to hear the Appealant rant himself out of breath , without fear of discovery ; and that being done , I shall take him gently by the hand , and walk him to the beginning of the Scotish tumults , where we find thus , viz. But now we are summoned to a sadder subject , from the suffering of a private person , to the miseries and almost mutual ruine of two Kingdoms , England , and Scotland ; miseries caused from the sending of a Book of Service , or new Liturgie thither , which may sadly be tearmed a Rubrick indeed , dyed with the blood of so many of both Nations , slain on that occasion , Ch. Hist. Lib. 11. fol. 159. 160. And now I would fain know with what charitable Logick , any thing else can be collected out of those words , but that the miseries and calamnities which befel the Kingdom of England were occasioned primarily by sending a new Liturgie to the Kirk of Scotland , : For first , in Marshaling the Causes of those miseries and ruines in which both Kingdoms were involved , he makes the sending of the Book of Service and new Liturgie thither , to be the prime cause both in order and nature , of the whole disturbance . Secondly , he speakes plainer in these words to confute himself , then had been formerly observed by the Animadvertor ; the Animadvertor charging him for no more then saying , that those calamities and miseries were occasioned by sending the new Liturgie thither , which now he plainly doth affirm to be caused by it . And thirdly , though the word primarily be not found in that passage , yet he must be a very charitable Logician , who will not find it in the order and method of Causes , which are there offered to his view ; deduced they may be from his book , though it cannot be produced out of it ; and therefore he may take the departure from the truth on himself alone , and send for the accuser of the Brethren to keep him company .

45. Concerning the release of the twelve Bishops ( for now he grants them to be twelve , which before he did not ) he hopes to have me upon some advantage , for denying them to have continued eighteen moneths in the Tower , without any intermediate discharge , pro tempore ; but not being willing out of his abundant charity , to have me persist wilfully in any error , he directeth me to be informed by Bishop Wrenn , that none of them were released before May 6. And from that reverend Prelate I could as willingly take my Information , if I had any convenient opportunity to ask the Question , as from any other whosoever ; but being I am at such a distance , I must inform my self as well as I can by my Lord of Canterbury , who in his Breviate tels us this . That on February 14. 1641. there came an Order , that the twelve Bishops might put in bail if they would , and that they should have their hearing upon Fryday , and that on Wednesday the 15. they went out of the Tower : Assuredly my Lord of Canterbury cannot be thought to be so ignorant in the affairs of his Brethren , being then fellow Prisoners with him , as not to understand their successes , whether good or bad , or to be of such a careless Pen , as to commit so gross an error in matter of fact , especially in such things as were under his eye ; and therefore I resolve as before I did ( till I shall see some better reason to the contrary , then I have done hitherto ) that there was a general Order for the discharge of the twelve imprisoned Bishops , on Feb. 14. and that they were remanded back again , by the power and importunity of the House of Commons , upon the reasons formerly laid down in the Animadversions .

46. And here I would have left the Bishops to enjoy their liberty , but that I am called back again to congratulate with the Archbishop of York , for p. 3. f. 54. holding the Deanry of Westminster in commendam , on so good an account . I thought till now that he received it as a favour , not an act of Justice ; but the Appealant hath enlightned my understanding with a clearer notion , telling me that King Charls confirmed that Deanry upon him for three years , in lie● of the profits of his Archbishoprick , which the King had taken , sed● vacante : If so , his Majesty must be either more just or more indulgent to Bishop Williams , then he had been to Bishop Neil , his old trusty Servant , whom I find not to be gratified with any such commendam or compensation , either when he was promoted from Durham to receive Winchester , or translated from Winchester to the See of York ; and yet the King had taken the vacant profits of those Sees for a longer time , that is to say , from the death of Bishop Andrews and Archbishop Hars●et , then he had taken those of York on this last occasion : But I hope on● Author was somewhat more then half asleep when this note fell from him ; for otherwise me thinks he could not be so much a stranger to the affairs of the Church , as not to know , that ever since the time of William the second ( for so long that ill custome hath continued ) nothing hath been more ordinary with the Kings of England , then to enter on the temporalities of all vacant Bishoppricks , whether it be by death , promotion , or what way soever , and to receive the mean profits of them , till the new Bishop after the doing of his homage , hath taken out a writ for their restitution .

47. Our Author now drawes toward an end , and for a conclusion to his Book ( contrary in a manner to all former Precedents ) addresseth an Epistle , To the Religious , Learned , and judicious Reader . In which he feeds himself and his Reader also , with the hopes of this , that there are no more Errors to be found in his History , then those which have been noted in the Animadversions . This I will add , saith he , ( for thus he doth bespeak his Reader ) for my comfort , and thy better confidence in reading my Book , that according to the received rule in Law , Exceptio firmat Regulam in non exceptis ; it followeth proportionably , that Animadversio firmat Regulam in non Animadversis . And if so , by the Tacit consent of my Adversary himself , all other passages in my Book are allowed sound and true , save those few which fall under his reproof . But if so ( as it is much otherwise ) the passages which fall under the Reproof of the Animadvertor , are not so few , as to give the Reader any confidence , that all the rest are to be allowed for sound and true . Non omnem molitor quae fluit unda videt , as the Proverb hath it ; The Miller sees not all the water which goes under his Mill , much of it passing by without observation , and if the blind eat many a fly , as the English Adage saith he doth , he may swallow many an Error also , without discovery , when he first finds them in his dish . And so it was with me in the Review of our Authors History , the second perusal whereof presented many Errors to my consideration , which had not been noted in the first . And since the publishing of the Animadversions , I have fallen accidentally upon divers others , not observed before , of which I shall advertise him in a private way , whensoever he shall please to desire it of me .

48. And here I thought I should have ended , but the Appealant puts me to the answering of two Objections against the Bishops , having place in Parliament as a third Estate . Which two Objections may be Answered without being heard , as being made against the clear letter of the Law , the express words of several Statutes and Records of Parliament , as also against the positive determination of Sir Edward Cook , the most learned Lawyer of our times , whose judgement in that point , may seem to carry the authority of a Parliament with it , because by Order of this Parliament his Books were appointed to be Printed ; But since the Appealant doth require it in the way of curtesie , I will serve him in it as well as I can , at the present , without engaging my self in any further enquiry after those particulars . And first as to the Bishop of Man , the reason why he hath no vote in Parliament , is not because he doth not hold his Lands per integram Baro●iam , as is implyed in the Objections , but because he doth not hold his Lands of the King at all . The Bishop of Man is Homiger to the Earl of Darby ( as the chief Lord of the Island ) of his sole nomination and dependance ; and therefore there could be no reason which might induce the King of England to admit those Bishops to a place and vote in Parliament , who held nothing of them , and of whose dutie and affections they could promise little . And so much I remember to have read in the learned Work of Francis Mason , de Ministerio Anglicano , building therein ( if my memory do not too much fail me ) upon the judgement and authority of the learned Andrews , in his Elaborate Apologie against Cardinal Bellarmine .

To the second Objection , That some Statutes have been made , absente , or Exclus● clero , which notwithstanding are esteemed to be good and valid , therefore that the Bishops sit not in the Parliament , as a third Estate : I shall for brevity sake refer the Appealant to my answer , to the Book called , The stumbling Block , &c. cap. 5. Sect. 7. 8. &c. where he shall find the point discoursed more at large then these short Remembrances can admit of . I shall onely now adde thus much , that in the Protestation made by the twelve Bishops , which was enrolled amongst the Records of that house , they thereby entred their Protest against all such Laws , Orders , Votes , Resolutions , and determinations , as in themselves null and of none effect , which in their absence since the 27th . of December , 1641. as were already passed ; and likewise against such as should hereafter pass in that most honourable house during the time of their forced and violent absence from it , &c. Which certainly so many Grave , Learned , and Judicious men would never have done , if they had not looked upon themselves in the capacity of a third Estate , according to the Laws of the Realm , exprest in several Acts and Records of Parliament . And whereas he requests me when my hand is in , to answer an Objection taken from a passage in the Parliament at Northampton , under Hen. the second , in which the Bishops claimed their place not as Bishops , but Barons ( Non sedemus hi● Episcopi , sed Barones , &c. ) it must be understood with reference to the case which was then before them ; in which they thought themselves better qualified to pass their judgements in the capacity of Barons , then in that of Bishops . For that the Bishops sat in Parliament in a double capacity , will be no hard matter to evince ; considering that they sat as Bishops in all publick Councels , before the entrance of the Normans ; and that when William the Conqueror changed their tenure , from Frank Almoigne , to B●r●nage , he rather added some new capacity to them , which before they had not , then took any of their old Capacities from them , which before they had . But this dispute is out of doors , as the case now stands , which makes me willing to decline all such further trouble , which the Appealant seems desirous to impose upon me .

50. That which I have already done in Order to his satisfaction , is more then he can challenge in the ordinary course of Disputation , or hath deserved at my hands in the managing of it . He tells us in the Third Chapter of his Apparatus , that finding himselfe necessitated to return an answer to the Animadversions , he was resolved first to abstain from all Rayling , that being a sick wit , or the sickness of wit , as he truly notes ; And secondly , not to be bitter against the Credit of the Animadvertor , though perchance he may have something tart to quicken the Appetite of the Reader . As for the credit of the Animadvertor , it hath past through too many tryals , both publick and private , to be foiled by such an empty insinuation ; Fama velim credas , crimine n●stra caret , in the Poets words . If he can find any hole in my Coat , let him make it wider if he can ; I do not hold my credit of him , either as Tenant at will , or Tenant by courtesie ; nor as the Bishops anciently held their Lands of the Crown , as Tenant in Frank Almoigne , by Alms or Charity . It is my hope that I have acquired a free hold in it , a good Estate for term of life , of which a st●onger Adversary then this Appealant , shall never be able to disseize me . But how farre he is infected with that sickness of wit , that sick wit of Railing , against which he seems to be resolved , two many passages in his Book , are sufficient symptoms . In his Examination of the general Preface , that my Antidote against his Book hath more of poyson then of Cordial in it ; and that I envenome many plain and true passages , with my false Glosses , forced Inferences , and pestilent Applications , p. 1. fol. 20. as afterwards calls me a Deforming Reformer , fol. 19. An Adventurous Emperick , fol. 22. upbraids me with my flouncing and flattering , fol. 59. accuseth me of Don-Quixotism , p. 2. fol. 49. Gives me the name of Rabsecah , fol. 95. brings me to sit down in the seat of the scornful , p. 1. fo. 20. reproacheth me with Rayling , such rayling as not onely beneath a Doctor , but against Divinity , making me to be bred in Billings-Gate Colledge , p. 3. fo. 33. and in the same calls me by craft ( as we poor Country folk use to say ) a snarling Dog , and in plain terms , a very Malignant indeed , p. 49. I must confess I have found some worser language from the hands of others , though this be more then may comport with that Declaration of his declining all expressions which might savour of Railing , to which how near he comes in all these particulars , and how far he hath dipt his Pen in the Gall of bitterness , is not mine to Judge .

51. But his fine Master-piece of wit , is that which he conceives to be an Anagram of his own making in the name of Heilin , out of the which Letters whereof being transposed , he makes Nihili , that is to say , Nothing worth ; a conceit not of his discovery , for it was found out long since , when I was a School boy ; And I had thought we should have had no boys play revived between us . But since he hath led the way unto it , I hope he will give me leave to follow , and ●ub up some of the first fancies of my younger dayes . In confidence of which leave , on the first scanning of his name with my bad eyes , I was able to disc●●n an Halter in it , and some full Halter too , to make up the Anagram . But I shall not doom the man to so sad an End , or leave him to the mercy of a second Miracle , from King Hen. the 6. the Tutelar or Patron Saint of old Thomas of Hammer-smith , for which consult the Animadversions , p. 176. and the Appeal , p. 3. fol. 32. Rather I shall content my selfe with such ●a moderate retaliation as the letters of his name will give me without any such stretching ; which in relation to his frequent Haltings , betwixt State and Monarchy , Episcopacy and Presbytery , the Common-prayer Book , and the Directory , will set forth Thomas Fuller for a fulsome Halter , and so let him pass .

52. I must beseech the Reader to excuse this Levity , which nothing but invincible indignation could have forced upon me : and in the next place , not to wonder that I have made so short a Replication to so long an Answer ; For first it is to be considered , that three parts in five of the Appeal are the very words of my Animadversions ; and I do not yet find my self reduced to any necessity , being an 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , or a condemner of my self for any thing by me delivered in that Book . And in the two parts which are remaining as the Authors were , there are many things in which he confesseth himselfe to have been formerly mistaken , of which he hath promised Reformation in the next Edition of his History , if ever it shall come to a second birth ; whereof I had no reason to make a particular repetition in this short Appendix . Some other passages there are in the Animadversions , to which the Traverses of the Appealant are so slight and perfunctory , that they are tantamount to a plain acknowledgement , and therefore are to pass in the account of Confessions also . But his Avoydings ▪ as they make up the greatest part of his own discourses , so I conceive they will appear no otherwise to a learned and judicious Reader , then as Subterfuges and Avoydings only , not to be qualified by the name of satisfactory , and sufficient answers ; and therefore no especial Replication to be needful to them , which might occasion a Rejoyner , and consequently spin out the cause to an endless length . Which being the general Anatomy of the whole Appeal , there remains onely some few parts to be dissected , in which the Appealant stands too stifly , though erroneously to his first opinions ; or fathers the mistakes of his own begetting on the Animadvertor ; or otherwise creates new Errors in labouring too sollicitously to palliate and defend the old .

53. Till this was done , I could not think my selfe in a condition to embrace any of those civil and ingenious overtures which are made in the Appealants Letter . And yet there was some other reason , which made this short answer seem so necessary , as not to be honestly avoided ; A report being spred abroad and printed in one of Squire Sandersons bald and scurrilous Pamphlets , that I had begged pardon of the Appealant by a supplicatory and submissive Letter , for my writing against him , which base and scandalous Report might have found belief ( notwithstanding my labouring to decry it in the general Preface to this book , before the Appealants was sent to me ) if I had not showed my selfe in this short Reply , to be as free from any fear of Mr. Fuller , as I conceive my self to be out of his Danger . But whether I be out of his danger or no , must be referred to the equal and impartial Reader , whom I beseech not to be wanting to himself in a diligent comparing of the Animadversions , with this Answer to it , in every branch and clause of either as they lye before him ; And then I shall not doubt of such a favourable sentence , as on an equal hearing , can be given in Chancery to an honest cause . Which brief account being offered to Examination , will prove , I hope , as satisfactory in the summa Totalis , as if the several Items had been specified , and summed up particularly , whensoever any equal & judicious Auditor , shall trouble himself in casting up the Reckonings which are between us . And in this hope I shall apply my self to Answer Mr. Fullers Letter , whom I thus salute .

To my Loving Friend , Mr. THOMAS FULLER . SIR ,

AT the End of your Appeal ( which came not to my hand till Friday the sixt of this moneth ) I find a very civil Letter directed to me , in which you propose a breathing time , after some wearinesse in the encounters which have past between us ; and the suspending of such Animosities as we may be supposed to harbour against one another . But for my part as I have had no such long breathing time , ( since those Papers which relate to you first past my hands ) as might make me the more ready for this second onset ; so you may take as long or little time , as you please , to consider of it , before you return to the encounter . Animosities I have none against you , and therefore none to be suspended in this Inter-Parleance : My affections being fair to your person , though not to the cause , for which you seem most to have appeared in the whole course of your History : And if you had appeared so , onely to my apprehension , I had been the more inexcusable both to God and Man ; and the more accomptable to you , for conceiving otherwise of you , then you had deserved . But I am confident there are very few true Sonnes of the Church of England , who could make any other judgement of you , out of your History , then was made by me ; and therefore you must thank your selfe , if any greater noise hath been made about it , then you could willingly have heard ▪ You know what Caesars Resolution was about his wife , for having her as free from the suspition , as the crime of Incontinency ; and therefore if your Conscience do acquit you , from the crim it self , in Acting any thing against the Interest of the Church your Mother , you had done very well , and wisely , had you kept your selfe free from the suspition also of such disaffections .

You tell me , that you are cordiall to the Cause of the English Church , and that your hoary hairs will go down into the Grave in sorrow for her sufferings . But then as * * 1 Sam. 15. 14. Samuel said to Saul , What meaneth this bleating of the sheepe ●in my Ears , and the lowing , of Oxen which I heare . What mean those dangerous Positions , and those many inconvenient expressions ( that I may give them no worse name ) which occur so frequently in your Book , and which no man , who is cordial to the Cause of the English Church , can either read with patience , or pass over with pardon . If you would be believed in this , you must not speak the same Language in your second Edition , as you have done in the first , or leave so much in it of the former Leven as may soure the whole lumpe of your performance . Nor would I have you think it to be any dishonour to cast aside those soure Grapes , whensoever they shall come to a second gathering , at which so many of the teeth of your Mothers Children have been set on edge : there being no greater Victory to be gained in the World , then what a Man gets upon himself . You have said as much as could be in your own defence , and therefore may come off with satisfaction to your self and others . In altering all or any of those passages , which have given occasion of offence to the most of your brethren . And you may take this occasion for it , not as necessitated thereunto by the force of Argument , but as Sylla resigned his Dictator-ship , rather out of his good affections to the peace and happiness of the Common-wealth , then compelled by Arms.

You are pleased to take notice of some Parts that God hath given us , thinking we might have used them better , then in these Pen Combates ; and that the differences betwixt us will occasion such Rejoycings in the common Enemy , as was amongst the Trojans , on the fallings out of Agamemnon and Achilles . But I hope you doe not think in earnest , that either of us are so considerable in the sight of our Enemies , as those Great Commanders were in theirs , or that any great matter of Rejoycings can be given them by our weak contentions . In which what satisfaction you are able to give your selfe for spending so much of your Parts , Pains , and Time , in the drawing up of your Appeal , is known onely to God and your own Conscience . But for my part , I am not conscious to my selfe of any mispendings in that kind , in reference to the writing of my Anim●dversions ; in which as I had no other end , then the vindicating the truth , the Church , and the injured Clergy ; so I can confidently say , that I have writtten nothing in the whole course of that Book ( to the best of my knowledge ) which was not able to abide the touchstone of truth , whensoever it was brought unto it . The smallest truth is worth the seeking , and many truths are worth the finding : No loss of time , or mis-imployment of our parts or pains , to be complained of in that pursuit . And therefore I shall say in the Words of Judicious Doctor Hackwell , That such is the admirable Beauty and Soveraignty of truth in it self , and such infinite content doth it yeild the soul being found and embraced ; that had I proposed no other end to my self in this present Treatise then the discovery and unfolding thereof , I should hold it alone a very ample recompense and sufficient reward of my labour . Fracta , vel leviter imminuta Auctoritate veritatis , omnia dubia remanebant , as S. Augustine hath it .

You tell me also , that as you know , I will not allow you to be my equal , so you will not acknowledg me to be your superiour ; whereby you tacitly conclude your self for the better man , as much above me in the fortune and success of the present Duel , as Cesar was above Pompey in the War between them : In which though I may suffer you to enjoy the jollity of your own opinion ; yet it is more then probable , that such as have observed the conduct of the action on either side , may think otherwise of it : Which being referred to the finall sentence of those only who are made Judges of the field , I shall not be unwilling to shut up the Quarrel , upon such conditions as are propounded in your Letter , one only of my own being added to them : & I conceive , that having offered these short notes to the publick view , I might do it without any disadvantage of reputation . By some passages in your Book and Letter : I find that you take notice of a remediless infirmity , and decay of sight , which is fallen upon me , rendring me almost wholly unfit for further engagements of this nature ; and I finde also on the other side that you have many advantages above me , both in friends and Books , of both which by the plundering of my Library , and the nature of a Country life , I am almost totally unfurnished : Which though it may give you many fair and flattering hopes of an easie victory , whensoever you shall enter the Lists again ; yet as unfurnished as I am of all humane helps , but such as I have within my self , I little doubt of making good the cause against you , if every point thereof should stand in need of re-examining , as I think none doth : However I have learned of Christ our common Master , to agree with mine Adversary while I am in the way with him , especially where it may be done , not only salva Charitate , but salva Veritate also ; where the agreement may be made , as well without any loss to truth , as improvement to charity . I must needs say you have offered me very fair conditions , whereby I am put into the way toward this agreement , which I shall follow with the greater chearfulness ( you may call it passion if you please ) when I shall see some good effects of your Protestations , such reparation made to INJVRED INNOCENCE , as is professed in your Appeal . Which happy hour whensoever it comes , I shall not only give you the right hand of Fellowship , as the Apostles did to Paul , when from a Persecutor of the Church , he became one of the chief Pillars in it , but the right hand of precedency G● . 48. 14 also , which the old and dim-sighted Patriarch gave to Ephraim , though the younger Brother . We shall not then enter into the Dispute , which of us goes first out of the field , or turn our backs toward one another , according to your Emblem of the two Lions endorsed ( which you have very well noted out of Gerrard Leigh ) for avoiding contentions in the way ; but hand in hand together as becometh Brethren , the Sons not only of the same Father , but of the same Mother too . Nor shall we then enter into a Dispute , which of the two shall be reputed for the good Philemon , or which the Fugitive Onesimus ; there being as great a readiness in me , to submit unto you in all points of civility , as there can be aversness in you to acknowledg me for your Superiour by way of Argument . So doing we shall both be Victors , though neither can be said to be vanquished , and shall consolidate a friendship , without the intervening of a reconcilement . And on these tearms none shall be readier to preserve either a valuable esteem whilst we live together , or a fair memory of you , if you go before me , then

SIR , The most unworthy of your Brethren , amongst the true Sons of the Church of England Pet. Heylyn . Lacies Court in Abingdon , May 16. 1659.

The Contents of this Book . 1. AN Exchange of Letters with Mr. Baxter , occasioned by a passage in the preface to his Grotian Religion , page 1. 2. An Exchauge of Letters with Dr. Barnard , relating to the Book called Respondit Petrus , and the supposed burning of it . p. 97. 3. The Intercourse with Mr. Hickman , in answer to some passages in his Justification of the Fathers and Schoolmen , &c. p. 113. 4. A Declaration about Forms of Government , the power of the Spartan Ephori , and the Jewish Sanhedrim managed Letter-wise with J. H. Esq p. 205. 5. An Appendix to the former Papers in Answer to some passages in M. Fullers late Appeal for Injured Innocence . p. 311.

An Advertisement touching the Errata .

THe Reader is to be Advertised touching some mistakes which have occurred at the Press , and are desired to be corrected with his Pen , before he set himself to peruse these Papers . As first , p. 159. for these words , viz. Should command the Paraphrases of Erasmus , to be translated into English , studied by Priests , &c. read thus , viz. Should commend the Paraphrases of Erasmus translated into English , to be studied by Priests &c. And p. 183. for which but only determined , not having commanded silence in those points , read thus , which determined nothing , but onely commanded silence , &c. p. 108. dele . these words that information had been made as to the burning of the Book . The rest of Erratas being onely literal , may be mended thus :

Page 2. l. 10. for described , r. ascribed , p. 10 l. 1. for difference , r. distance . p. 23. l. 8. for instancing r. in standing , p. 27. l. 4. for our r. of our , p. 29. l. 30. f. lay , r. lay not , p. 40. l. 5. f. any r. to , p. 50. l. 3. f. Spirator , r. Spirans , p. 53. l. 8. f. no r. any , p. 54. l. 19. f. baser r. border , p. 68. l. 18. f insue r. be true , p. 86. l. 15. d. owning . p. 87. l. 1. f. 29. r. 25. p. 95. l. 26. f. Fame r. Tame , p. 96. l. ult . f. laesives , r. Laeseris , ibid l. 9. f. Consul r. Councel , 105. l. 16. f. way r. worse , p. 109. l. 2. & 3. f. lata r. tota . In the Second Part , f. Burlow , r. Barlow ubique p. 126. l. 34. f. whose r. but he whose , p. 130. l. 13. f. Burle , r. Barlee . p. 135. l. 21. f. Burechus r. Purchas , p 145. l. 4. f. 24. r. 246. p. 147. l. 10. f. manner . r. all manner , ibid l. 19. f. supra r. Sublapsarians . p. 148. l. 19. f. Barrow r. Baroe , p. 167. l. 13. f. nine & ten r. ninteen & twenty , p. 174. l. 3. for a Mother r. another . p. 238. f. Tachee r. Rochel . p. 243. l. 5. f. sinking r. six Kings . p. 244. l. 17. r. Abeyance . p. 251 l. 8. f. Kings r. Consuls . p. 253. l. 14. d. it was no. p. 258. l. 30. f. right r. know . p. 292. l. 3. Agraramine . p. 297. f. Rubbige r. Rabine . p. 310. l. 1. to new disputes , ad . you have had my Answer . p. 316. for Bullick r. Ballick . p. 317. l. 16. d. Thesulri .

FINIS .

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