A
TREATISE
OF
LITURGIES
,
POWER
of
the
KEYES
,
And
of
matter
of
the
Visible
CHURCH
.
IN
ANSWER
To
the
Reverend
Servant
of
Christ
,
Mr.
John
Ball.
By
THOMAS
SHEPHARD
,
sometimes
fellow
of
Emanuel-Colledge
in
Cambridge
,
and
late
Pastour
of
Cambridge
in
New-England
.
Veritas
nihil
erubescit
praeterquam
abscondi
,
Turtul
.
Sua
silentia
amat
Spiritus
per
quae
nobis
illabitur
,
seque
insinuat
cupidis
non
gloriae
sed
cognoscendae
veritatis
,
Melanct.
Let
the
blessing
come
upon
the
head
of
Joseph
,
and
upon
the
top
of
the
head
of
him
that
was
separated
from
his
Brethren
,
Deut.
33.
16.
LONDON
,
Printed
by
E.
Cotes
for
Andrew
Crooke
,
and
are
to
be
sold
at
the
Green
Dragon
in
Pauls
Church-yard
,
1653.
The
Preface
to
the
Reader
.
IT
was
the
profession
of
the
Lord
Jesus
before
Pilate
,
when
he
questioned
with
him
about
his
Kingdome
,
John
18.
37.
That
for
this
cause
he
was
born
and
came
into
the
world
,
to
beare
witnesse
of
the
truth
.
Many
truths
about
the
spirituall
Kingdom
of
Christ
hath
he
imparted
to
us
,
if
therfore
we
be
born
into
the
world
,
or
sent
into
this
Wildernesse
to
beare
witnesse
to
his
truth
,
it
is
unto
us
reward
sufficient
,
that
we
should
be
witnesses
thereunto
,
even
to
the
utmost
parts
of
the
Earth
.
Wee
confesse
wee
have
been
too
slow
in
this
service
of
Christ
,
not
having
to
this
day
set
forth
an
unanimous
Confession
of
that
Form
of
wholsome
words
which
is
Preached
,
received
,
and
professed
in
these
Churches
of
the
Lord
Jesus
;
and
which
we
are
not
unmindfull
of
,
though
our
distances
,
and
other
difficulties
may
delay
the
opportunity
.
But
this
in
the
meane
time
we
professe
in
generall
,
That
(
so
farre
as
wee
know
)
there
is
the
same
blessed
Spirit
of
Truth
breathing
in
the
Ministery
of
the
Country
;
the
same
Faith
embraced
and
professed
in
the
Churches
,
which
is
generally
received
as
the
Orthodox
Doctrine
of
the
Gospel
,
in
the
best
reformed
Churches
,
and
particularly
by
our
godly
learned
Brethren
of
England
and
Scotland
.
And
though
errours
have
sprung
up
among
us
,
and
some
are
gone
out
from
us
,
that
we
feare
were
not
of
us
,
yet
wee
have
borne
witnesse
against
them
,
and
by
the
blessing
of
God
,
by
the
breath
of
Christ
in
the
mouths
of
his
servants
they
have
been
blasted
.
Neither
doe
we
understand
that
these
Churches
are
accused
of
any
errours
about
the
saving
truths
of
the
Gospel
,
and
therefore
we
thought
our selves
not
so
much
called
of
God
to
such
a
Confession
at
present
,
as
to
cleare
up
to
the
world
those
Truths
we
professe
about
the
kingdome
and
government
of
Christ
in
his
Churches
,
which
is
the
great
worke
of
this
age
,
and
of
this
nick
of
time
.
And
yet
here
also
we
feare
that
we
have
been
too
slack
;
for
though
it
bee
said
,
Wee
are
the
Volunteers
,
such
as
cry
up
this
way
,
&c.
and
so
it
seemes
wee
are
apprehended
to
bee
one
cause
of
these
present
differences
:
yet
if
things
be
well
weighed
,
we
may
seem
rather
to
bee
farre
behinde
in
the
duty
that
lyes
upon
us
.
Indeed
some
briefe
Answers
sent
over
to
some
particular
persons
,
to
satisfie
Brethren
what
our
practise
is
,
(
with
some
briefe
touch
of
our
reasons
)
rather
then
to
discusse
those
points
,
have
been
printed
by
some
without
our
knowledge
,
or
assent
,
upon
what
grounds
they
best
know
.
And
some
short
Treatises
by
some
reverend
Brethren
have
been
published
to
declare
their
affectionate
desires
of
the
unanimous
endevours
of
all
our
deare
Brethren
,
for
a
generall
and
holy
Reformation
:
But
what
hath
been
said
or
done
that
either
may
justly
offend
the
minds
of
the
godly
,
provoke
their
spirits
,
disunite
their
affections
,
or
hinder
a
godly
Reformation
?
Yea
,
wee
have
been
too
slow
to
cleare
our
Doctrine
and
practise
from
the
many
objections
,
harsh
interpretations
,
and
manifold
criminations
cast
upon
the
same
,
wherein
wee
feare
our
lothnesse
to
intermeddle
in
these
Controversies
for
feare
of
making
the
breach
wider
amongst
Brethren
;
and
our
desire
rather
to
attend
what
light
we
might
receive
from
others
in
these
points
wherein
wee
professe
our selves
seekers
after
the
truth
,
have
made
us
guilty
of
neglect
in
this
our
duty
.
But
now
we
see
our selves
pressed
hereto
,
by
a
necessity
of
justifying
our
wayes
against
the
many
aspersions
cast
upon
them
,
as
well
as
against
the
Reasons
used
against
them
,
for
wee
perceive
by
the
first
Letter
of
our
Brethren
,
how
the
with-drawing
of
Christians
from
the
Liturgy
was
imputed
to
us
,
and
by
this
Reply
both
in
the
Epistle
and
divers
passages
,
wee
cannot
but
see
what
apprehensions
are
raised
of
us
;
yea
,
many
are
apt
to
think
,
that
if
we
had
said
nothing
,
yet
our
very
act
in
forsaking
the
Churches
of
God
in
our
deare
native
Country
,
and
the
Cause
of
Christ
there
,
together
with
the
practise
of
these
Churches
thought
to
bee
so
different
from
the
reformed
Churches
,
have
been
,
not
onely
a
great
weakening
to
the
hands
of
the
Godly
,
(
that
have
stood
by
the
Cause
of
Christ
)
but
also
have
caused
great
disturbance
to
the
Reformation
in
hand
:
To
which
much
might
be
said
,
but
that
wee
should
exceed
the
bounds
of
an
Epistle
.
Yet
let
us
intreat
all
the
Godly
wise
,
to
consider
and
look
back
upon
the
season
of
this
great
enterprise
,
undertaken
by
us
,
and
the
manner
of
our
proceedings
in
it
,
with
the
admirable
workings
of
Gods
Providence
first
and
last
about
it
;
and
we
think
(
though
we
were
silent
)
they
may
easily
satisfie
themselves
,
whether
this
was
of
God
or
men
,
a
sinfull
neglect
of
the
Cause
of
Christ
,
or
a
manifest
attestation
to
the
truth
,
by
open
profession
against
Corruptions
of
Worship
in
use
,
and
for
the
necessity
of
reformation
of
the
Church
;
and
that
confirmed
by
no
small
degree
of
sufferings
for
the
same
.
For
was
it
not
a
time
when
humane
Worship
and
inventions
were
growne
to
such
an
intolerable
height
,
that
the
consciences
of
Gods
saints
and
servants
inlightened
in
the
truth
)
could
no
longer
bear
them
?
was
not
the
power
of
the
tyrannicall
Prelates
so
great
,
that
like
a
strong
Current
carryed
all
down
streame
before
it
,
what
ever
was
from
the
law
,
or
otherwise
set
in
their
way
?
Did
not
the
hearts
of
men
generally
faile
them
?
Where
was
the
people
to
bee
found
that
would
cleave
to
their
godly
Ministers
in
their
sufferings
,
but
rather
thought
it
their
discretion
,
to
provide
for
their
owne
quiet
and
safety
?
Yea
,
when
some
freely
in
zeale
of
the
Truth
preached
or
professed
against
the
corruptions
of
the
times
,
did
not
some
take
offence
at
it
,
judge
it
rashnesse
,
and
to
bee
against
all
rules
of
discretion
,
who
since
are
ready
to
censure
us
for
deserting
the
Cause
?
Many
then
thought
,
it
is
an
evill
time
,
the
prudent
shall
hold
their
peace
,
and
might
wee
not
say
,
this
is
not
our
resting
place
?
And
what
would
men
have
us
doe
in
such
a
case
?
Must
wee
study
some
distinctions
to
salve
our
Consciences
in
complying
with
so
manifold
corruptions
in
Gods
Worship
?
or
should
wee
live
without
Gods
ordinances
,
because
wee
could
not
partake
in
the
corrupt
administration
thereof
?
or
content
our selves
to
live
without
those
ordinances
of
Gods
Worship
and
Communion
of
Saints
which
hee
called
us
unto
,
and
our
soules
breathed
after
?
or
should
wee
forsake
the
publique
Assemblies
,
and
joyne
together
in
private
separated
Churches
?
how
unsufferable
it
would
then
have
been
,
the
great
offence
that
now
is
taken
at
it
,
is
a
full
evidence
.
And
if
in
Cities
,
or
some
such
great
Townes
that
might
have
been
done
,
yet
how
was
it
possible
for
so
many
scattered
Christians
all
over
the
Countrey
?
It
is
true
,
we
might
have
suffered
,
if
wee
had
sought
it
,
wee
might
easily
have
found
the
way
to
have
filled
the
Prisons
,
and
some
had
their
share
therein
.
But
whether
wee
were
called
thereunto
,
when
a
wide
doore
was
set
open
of
liberty
otherwise
;
and
our
witnesse
to
the
truth
,
(
through
the
malignant
policy
of
those
times
)
could
not
bee
open
before
the
world
,
but
rather
smothered
up
in
close
prisons
or
some
such
wayes
,
together
with
our selves
,
wee
leave
to
bee
considered
.
Wee
cannot
see
but
the
rule
of
Christ
to
his
Apostles
and
Saints
,
and
the
practise
of
Gods
Saints
in
all
ages
,
may
allow
us
this
liberty
as
well
as
others
,
to
fly
into
the
Wildernesse
from
the
face
of
the
Dragon
.
But
if
it
had
been
so
,
that
the
Godly
Ministers
and
Christians
that
fled
to
New-England
,
were
the
most
timorous
and
faint
hearted
of
all
their
Brethren
,
that
stayed
behinde
,
and
that
those
sufferings
were
nothing
in
comparison
of
their
Brethrens
(
for
why
should
any
b●ast
of
sufferings
?
)
yet
who
doth
not
know
that
the
Spirit
who
gives
various
gifts
,
and
all
to
profit
withall
,
in
such
times
doth
single
out
every
one
to
such
worke
,
as
hee
in
wisdome
intends
to
call
them
unto
?
And
whom
the
Lord
will
honour
by
suffering
for
his
Cause
,
by
imprisonment
,
&c.
hee
gives
them
spirits
suitable
thereto
:
whom
the
Lord
will
reserve
for
other
service
,
or
imploy
in
other
places
,
hie
inclines
their
hearts
rather
to
fly
,
giving
them
an
heart
suitable
to
such
a
condition
.
It
is
a
case
of
Conscience
frequently
put
,
and
oft
resolved
by
holy
Bradford
,
Peter
Martyr
,
Philpot
,
and
others
,
in
Queene
Maries
bloody
dayes
,
viz.
Whether
it
was
lawfull
to
flee
out
of
the
Land
:
To
which
their
answer
was
,
that
if
God
gave
a
spirit
of
courage
and
willingnesse
to
glorifie
him
by
sufferings
,
they
should
stay
;
but
if
they
found
not
such
a
spirit
they
might
lawfully
fly
,
yea
,
they
advised
them
thereunto
.
Those
Servants
of
Christ
,
though
full
of
the
spirit
of
glory
,
and
of
Christ
to
outface
the
greatest
persecuters
in
profession
of
the
Truth
,
unto
the
death
,
yet
did
not
complaine
of
the
cowardize
of
such
as
fled
,
because
they
deserted
them
and
the
Cause
,
but
rather
advised
divers
so
to
doe
,
and
rejoyced
when
God
gave
liberty
to
their
brethren
to
escape
with
their
lives
to
the
places
of
liberty
,
to
serve
the
Lord
according
to
his
Word
.
Neither
were
those
faithfull
Saints
and
servants
of
God
uselesse
and
unprofitable
in
the
Church
of
God
that
fled
from
the
bloody
Prelates
.
The
infinite
and
onely
wise
God
hath
many
workes
to
doe
in
the
World
,
and
hee
doth
by
his
singular
Providence
give
gifts
to
his
Servants
,
and
disposeth
them
to
his
Worke
as
seemeth
best
to
himselfe
.
If
the
Lord
will
have
some
to
beare
witnesse
by
imprisonments
,
dismembring
,
&c.
wee
honour
them
therein
;
if
hee
will
have
others
instrumentall
to
promote
reformation
in
England
,
wee
honor
them
,
and
rejoyce
in
their
holy
endeavours
,
praying
for
a
blessing
upon
themselves
and
labours
.
And
what
if
God
will
have
his
Church
and
the
Kingdome
of
Christ
goe
up
also
in
these
remote
parts
of
the
world
,
that
his
Name
may
bee
known
to
the
Heathen
,
or
whatsoever
other
end
hee
hath
,
and
to
this
end
will
send
forth
a
company
of
weake-hearted
Christians
,
which
dare
not
stay
at
home
to
suffer
,
why
should
wee
not
let
the
Lord
alone
,
and
rejoyce
that
Christ
is
preached
howsoever
,
and
wheresoever
?
And
who
can
say
that
this
work
was
not
undertaken
and
carryed
on
with
sincere
and
right
ends
,
and
in
an
holy
serious
manner
,
by
the
chiefe
and
the
body
of
such
as
undertooke
the
same
?
The
Lord
knows
whether
the
sincere
desires
of
worshipping
himselfe
according
to
his
will
,
of
promoting
and
propagating
the
Gospel
,
was
not
in
the
hearts
of
very
many
in
this
enterprise
;
and
hee
that
seeth
in
secret
,
and
rewardeth
openly
,
knows
what
prayers
and
teares
have
been
poured
out
to
God
by
many
alone
,
and
in
dayes
of
fasting
and
prayer
of
Gods
servants
together
,
for
his
counsell
,
direction
,
assistance
,
blessing
in
this
worke
:
How
many
longings
and
pantings
of
heart
have
been
in
many
after
the
Lord
Jesus
,
to
see
his
goings
in
his
Sanctuary
,
as
the
one
thing
their
soules
desired
and
requested
of
God
,
that
they
might
dwell
in
his
house
for
ever
;
the
fruit
of
which
prayers
and
desires
this
liberty
of
New-England
hath
been
taken
to
bee
,
and
thankfully
received
from
God
.
Yea
,
how
many
serious
consultations
with
one
another
,
and
with
the
faithfull
Ministers
,
and
other
eminent
servants
of
Christ
,
have
been
taken
about
this
worke
,
is
not
unknowne
to
some
;
which
cleares
us
from
any
rash
heady
rushing
into
this
place
,
out
of
discontent
,
as
many
are
ready
to
conceive
.
Wee
will
here
say
nothing
of
the
persons
whose
hearts
the
Lord
stirred
up
in
this
businesse
;
surely
all
were
not
rash
,
weake-spirited
,
inconsiderate
of
what
they
left
behinde
,
or
of
what
it
was
to
goe
into
a
Wildernesse
.
But
if
it
were
well
knowne
and
considered
,
or
if
wee
were
able
to
expresse
and
recount
the
singular
workings
of
divine
Providence
,
for
the
bringing
on
of
this
Worke
,
to
what
it
is
come
unto
,
it
would
stop
the
mouths
of
all
that
have
not
an
heart
to
accuse
and
blaspheme
the
goodnesse
of
God
in
his
glorious
workes
:
whatever
many
may
say
or
think
,
wee
beleeve
after-times
will
admire
and
adore
the
Lord
herein
,
when
all
his
holy
ends
,
and
the
wayes
he
hath
used
to
bring
them
about
shall
appeare
.
Look
from
one
end
of
the
heaven
to
another
,
whether
the
Lord
hath
assayed
to
do
such
a
Worke
as
this
in
any
Nation
,
so
to
carry
out
a
people
of
his
owne
from
so
flourishing
a
State
,
to
a
wildernesse
so
far
distant
,
for
such
ends
,
and
for
such
a
worke
:
Yea
,
and
in
few
yeares
hath
done
for
them
,
as
hee
hath
here
done
for
his
poore
despised
people
.
When
wee
looke
back
and
consider
what
a
strange
poise
of
spirit
the
Lord
hath
laid
upon
many
of
our
hearts
,
wee
cannot
but
wonder
at
our selves
,
that
so
many
,
and
some
so
weak
and
tender
,
with
such
cheerfulnesse
and
constant
resolutions
against
so
many
perswasions
of
friends
,
discouragements
from
the
ill
report
of
this
Countrey
,
the
straits
,
wants
;
and
tryalls
of
Gods
people
in
it
,
&c.
yet
should
leave
our
accommodations
and
comforts
,
should
forsake
our
dearest
relations
,
Parents
,
brethren
,
Sisters
,
Christian
friends
,
and
acquaintances
,
overlooke
all
the
dangers
and
difficulties
of
the
vast
Seas
,
the
thought
whereof
was
a
terrour
to
many
,
and
all
this
to
go
to
a
Wildernesse
,
where
wee
could
forecast
nothing
but
care
and
temptations
,
onely
in
hopes
of
enjoying
Christ
in
his
Ordinances
,
in
the
fellowship
of
his
people
;
was
this
from
a
stupid
senslesnesse
or
desperate
carelesnesse
what
became
of
us
or
ours
?
or
want
of
naturall
affections
to
our
deare
Countrey
,
or
nearest
relations
?
No
surely
,
with
what
bowells
of
compassion
to
our
deare
Countrey
;
with
what
heart-breaking
affections
,
to
our
deare
relations
,
and
Christian
friends
many
of
us
at
least
came
away
,
the
Lord
is
witnesse
.
What
shall
we
say
of
the
singular
Providence
of
God
bringing
so
many
Ship-loads
of
his
people
,
through
so
many
dangers
,
as
upon
Eagles
wings
,
with
so
much
safety
from
yeare
to
yeare
?
The
fatherly
●are
of
our
God
in
feeding
and
cloathing
so
many
in
a
Wildernesse
,
giving
such
healthfulnesse
and
great
increase
of
posterity
?
what
shall
wee
say
of
the
Worke
it selfe
of
the
kingdome
of
Christ
?
and
the
form
of
a
Common-wealth
erected
in
a
Wildernesse
,
and
in
so
few
yeares
brought
to
that
state
,
that
scarce
the
like
can
bee
seen
in
any
of
our
English
Colonies
in
the
richest
places
of
this
America
,
after
many
more
years
standing
?
That
the
Lord
hath
carryed
the
spirits
of
so
many
of
his
people
through
all
their
toylsome
labour
,
wants
,
difficulties
,
losses
,
&c.
with
such
a
measure
of
chearfulnesse
and
contentation
?
But
above
all
wee
must
acknowledge
the
singular
pity
and
mercies
of
our
God
,
that
hath
done
all
this
and
much
more
for
a
people
so
unworthy
,
so
sinfull
,
that
by
murmurings
of
many
,
unfaithfulnesse
in
promises
,
oppressions
,
and
other
evils
which
are
found
among
us
,
have
so
dishonoured
his
Majesty
,
exposed
his
worke
here
to
much
scandall
and
obloquie
,
for
which
wee
have
cause
for
ever
to
bee
ashamed
,
that
the
Lord
should
yet
owne
us
,
and
rather
correct
us
in
mercy
,
then
cast
us
off
in
displeasure
,
and
scatter
us
in
this
Wildernesse
,
which
gives
us
cause
with
Mich.
7.
to
say
,
Who
is
a
God
like
our
God
,
that
pardoneth
iniquities
,
and
passeth
by
the
transgressions
of
the
remnant
of
his
heritage
;
even
because
he
delighteth
in
mercy
?
Though
we
be
a
people
of
many
weaknesses
and
wants
,
yet
wee
acknowledge
our
God
to
have
been
to
us
a
God
of
many
mercies
,
in
respect
of
that
sweet
peace
which
he
hath
taken
away
from
so
many
Nations
,
yet
continuing
the
same
to
us
;
in
respect
also
of
that
liberty
wee
have
in
Gods
house
,
the
blessed
Ministery
of
the
Word
,
the
sweet
unity
and
communion
of
Gods
Churches
and
Ministers
,
increase
and
multiplication
of
Churches
,
Christian
government
in
the
Common-wealth
,
and
many
other
mercies
wee
enjoy
,
but
especially
the
gracious
presence
of
Christ
to
many
of
our
soules
in
all
these
.
But
wee
will
not
insist
much
upon
this
subject
,
being
perswaded
it
is
in
the
consciences
and
hearts
of
many
of
our
dear
Countrey-men
to
thinke
that
we
should
be
an
object
of
love
and
tendernesse
to
that
State
and
people
,
by
whose
Laws
and
unkind
usages
we
were
driven
out
into
a
wildernesse
,
rather
then
to
bee
judged
as
desertors
of
our
Brethren
,
and
the
Cause
of
Christ
in
hand
:
with
whom
(
excuse
us
if
we
now
speak
plainly
)
it
had
been
far
more
easie
unto
many
of
us
to
have
suffered
,
then
to
have
adventured
hither
upon
the
wildernesse
sorrows
wee
expected
to
have
met
withall
;
though
we
must
confesse
the
Lord
hath
sweetned
it
beyond
our
thoughts
,
and
utmost
expectations
of
prudent
men
.
But
passing
by
this
wee
must
desire
the
Reader
to
beare
with
us
a
little
in
removing
that
apprehension
that
wee
are
the
great
stumbling
block
in
the
way
of
Reformation
,
which
(
if
it
were
true
)
it
had
been
better
we
had
been
driven
so
farre
into
this
wildernesse
,
as
never
to
have
been
heard
of
more
.
Concerning
our
affection
to
this
blessed
worke
of
a
publique
Reformation
,
of
the
Nation
in
generall
,
and
the
particular
Churches
or
Congregations
of
the
Land
in
particular
,
(
as
it
is
best
knowne
to
God
)
so
wee
thinke
it
is
not
unknowne
to
men
,
not
onely
here
by
our
daily
prayers
for
it
,
and
sometime
solemne
seekings
of
God
about
it
;
but
also
we
have
given
some
testimonies
thereof
both
by
private
Letters
,
and
the
publique
motions
of
some
of
Gods
eminent
servants
among
us
tending
that
way
.
We
conceive
two
things
specially
in
our
Doctrine
and
practise
,
that
may
seem
to
bee
stumbling
blocks
in
the
way
of
this
publique
Reformation
,
which
we
shall
here
remove
.
The
first
is
our
practise
wherein
wee
seem
so
much
to
differ
from
the
reformed
Churches
,
in
receiving
to
our
Churches
onely
visible
Saints
and
beleevers
.
This
we
doe
freely
confesse
that
our
practise
and
judgement
doe
evidence
this
to
all
,
that
we
thinke
reformation
of
the
Church
doth
not
onely
consist
in
purging
out
corrupt
Worship
,
and
setting
up
the
true
;
but
also
in
purging
the
Churches
from
such
profanenesse
and
sinfulnesse
as
is
scandalous
to
the
Gospel
,
and
makes
the
Lord
weary
of
his
owne
Ordinances
,
Esay
1.
And
wee
doubt
not
but
this
was
in
the
hearts
of
many
,
(
if
not
most
)
of
Gods
servants
,
to
desire
a
separation
of
the
precious
from
the
vile
,
in
the
dispensing
of
Gods
ordinances
;
and
if
the
charity
of
some
be
of
larger
extent
herein
then
others
,
this
hinders
not
agreement
in
the
maine
.
This
day
hath
discovered
what
kinde
of
people
are
to
bee
found
every
where
in
the
Parishes
of
England
:
Can
light
and
darknesse
,
Christ
and
Belial
agree
together
?
Popish
episcopall
enemies
and
haters
of
all
godlinesse
and
reformation
,
cleave
together
in
one
Church
of
Christ
,
with
the
Saints
of
God
?
Yet
neither
our
Doctrine
nor
practise
do
prescribe
and
limit
the
way
of
attaining
this
reformation
,
whereby
any
should
justly
from
our
example
stand
off
from
concurring
in
such
a
publique
worke
.
It
is
true
,
where
there
is
no
Church
relation
,
but
a
people
are
to
begin
a
new
constituting
of
Churches
,
reformation
is
to
be
sought
in
the
first
Constitution
.
This
is
our
case
.
But
where
corrupted
Churches
,
(
such
as
we
conceive
the
Congregations
of
England
generally
to
be
)
are
to
be
reformed
,
there
we
conceive
that
such
Congregations
should
bee
called
by
able
Ministers
unto
repentance
for
former
evills
,
and
confessing
and
bewayling
their
sins
,
renew
a
solemn
Covenant
with
God
to
reform
themselves
,
and
to
submit
unto
the
discipline
of
Christ
.
By
which
meanes
such
as
refuse
so
to
doe
,
exclude
themselves
,
and
others
by
the
severity
of
Discipline
should
bee
purged
out
,
if
falling
into
sinne
they
remaine
impenitent
in
the
same
.
What
some
particular
persons
may
have
said
or
done
contrary
to
this
our
profession
,
wee
cannot
say
,
nor
doe
we
justifie
,
but
wee
know
nothing
that
hath
come
from
us
to
the
contrary
,
to
weaken
the
hands
of
godly
reformers
,
or
to
perswade
the
people
to
separate
from
the
Congregations
,
if
by
any
meanes
they
might
attaine
(
with
toleration
of
what
can
be
)
the
reformation
thereof
,
with
the
liberty
of
Gods
true
worship
therein
.
If
indeed
that
cannot
bee
obtained
,
but
men
contradict
and
blaspheme
them
,
as
Paul
separated
the
Disciples
,
so
wee
see
no
other
remedy
the
faithfull
have
in
such
a
case
.
The
second
stumbling
block
may
be
our
Doctrine
and
practise
about
Church-Government
,
when
wee
give
Discipline
as
well
as
other
Ordinances
to
particular
Churches
,
not
subjecting
them
to
any
Government
out
of
themselves
;
but
onely
to
take
the
brotherly
counsell
and
helpe
one
of
another
.
But
how
this
should
hinder
a
generall
Reformation
we
see
not
,
for
if
every
Church
so
reforme
themselves
(
as
is
aforesaid
)
and
have
such
Officers
over
them
as
the
rule
of
the
New
Testament
requires
,
1
Tim.
3.
Tit.
2.
wee
need
not
feare
to
betrust
the
Church
(
having
such
Officers
)
with
that
power
which
we
conceive
Christ
hath
given
to
the
same
,
other
Churches
watching
over
them
,
counselling
and
admonishing
them
in
the
Lord
.
But
if
there
be
not
such
a
reformation
of
the
Churches
,
nor
such
guides
set
over
them
,
the
power
of
the
keyes
in
a
Presbytery
of
such
Pastors
as
may
not
be
according
to
the
rule
,
may
as
much
abuse
them
as
a
particular
Church
may
doe
,
and
it
may
be
to
the
hurt
of
many
who
would
use
them
better
,
in
their
own
Congregations
,
then
they
can
in
a
Classis
,
being
over-voted
there
.
And
we
cannot
conceive
but
both
the
care
of
reforming
the
matter
of
a
Church
,
and
the
recalling
of
the
power
of
government
to
the
Church
,
tends
much
to
further
this
worke
of
reformation
,
no
way
to
hinder
the
same
.
And
if
wee
might
obtaine
that
of
our
deare
Brethren
,
which
wee
humbly
crave
,
viz.
That
our
Doctrine
and
practise
might
be
taken
candidly
according
to
our
plaine
meaning
,
and
declarations
,
and
not
represented
unto
the
World
under
such
shapes
and
formes
as
make
it
seeme
rigid
(
all
one
with
the
most
rigid
Separatists
,
Donatists
,
Arminians
,
Socinians
,
&c.
)
we
should
hope
that
we
shall
goe
for
lovers
and
friends
to
a
godly
and
generall
Reformation
,
not
for
disturbers
of
the
same
;
but
the
contrary
dealing
we
meet
with
too
too
oft
through
the
mistakes
of
Brethren
;
This
learned
Author
Mr.
Ball
,
though
in
the
Epistle
he
desired
us
to
rest
assured
,
that
although
he
had
conceived
such
thoughts
of
us
as
leaning
to
separation
,
yet
he
would
gladly
receive
every
syllable
from
us
that
should
dislodge
such
thoughts
,
yet
against
our
plaine
profession
sometime
he
will
needs
fasten
the
opinion
of
separation
upon
us
,
and
very
frequently
sets
Mr.
Robinson
in
a
parallel
with
our
opinions
,
(
as
if
we
generally
went
that
way
in
those
things
)
which
are
well
known
to
be
the
Doctrine
of
many
of
our
godly
and
best
reformers
.
The
Learned
may
plainly
see
,
how
easie
it
had
been
for
us
and
upon
better
grounds
to
have
filled
our
margents
with
quotations
out
of
Papists
and
Prelates
as
parallel
with
many
passages
of
this
Reply
,
but
we
have
purposely
abstained
from
so
doing
,
that
we
might
not
cast
any
blur
or
provoke
the
spirits
of
brethren
.
And
seeing
we
are
inforced
to
wipe
off
such
aspersions
,
we
humbly
desire
our
beloved
Brethren
(
whose
learned
labours
wee
honour
)
to
beare
with
us
if
we
lightly
touch
this
sore
,
for
wee
confesse
it
brings
blushing
into
our
faces
,
and
sadnesse
to
our
hearts
,
to
read
so
often
such
harsh
imputations
cast
upon
us
,
which
we
cannot
conceive
but
(
falling
from
such
pens
)
they
breed
a
strange
loathing
of
us
in
the
stomachs
of
many
that
read
bookes
without
serious
examinations
thereof
.
First
,
how
oft
doe
wee
meet
with
that
imputation
,
that
wee
make
none
members
of
a
visible
Church
but
such
as
are
really
saints
and
beleevers
,
contrary
to
our
frequent
profession
,
That
visible
saints
that
are
such
in
judgement
of
charity
are
fit
matter
of
the
Church
?
Secondly
,
that
we
make
a
vocall
Church
Oath
or
Covenant
,
the
essentiall
forme
of
a
Church
,
when
as
wee
frequently
acknowledge
that
this
Covenant
which
constituteth
a
Church
,
i●
either
implicite
or
explicite
,
and
that
Congregations
in
England
are
truly
Churches
having
an
implicite
covenant
;
and
it
is
far
from
our
practise
to
use
any
Oath
in
our
Covenant
,
and
strange
to
us
to
read
so
many
Pages
against
our
Church
Oath
,
and
swearing
to
a
Covenant
,
to
make
our
courses
horrid
and
too
too
rigorous
.
Thirdly
,
that
we
set
up
a
popular
government
,
making
the
Elders
of
the
Church
no
more
but
moderators
,
&c.
and
that
Ministers
receive
their
power
from
the
people
,
are
their
servants
,
and
administer
in
their
name
,
(
as
Mr.
Ball
and
others
object
)
when
we
oft
professe
the
contrary
,
that
all
authority
(
properly
so
called
)
is
in
the
hands
of
the
Elders
,
and
the
liberty
of
the
people
is
to
bee
carryed
in
a
way
of
subjection
,
and
obedience
to
them
in
the
Lord
:
neither
doth
it
follow
from
any
Doctrine
of
ours
,
no
more
then
from
the
ordination
of
Pastors
by
the
Presbytery
,
that
they
are
their
servants
,
&c.
Fourthly
,
that
if
a
Congregation
reject
a
Pastor
for
no
fault
,
they
take
both
nomen
&
esse
,
the
name
and
nature
of
a
Pastor
from
him
.
For
this
the
Reader
is
referred
to
our
Answer
of
the
twenty
fift
Question
of
the
thirty
two
questions
sent
unto
us
,
where
nothing
at
all
is
said
,
but
reference
is
made
to
our
answer
to
the
nine
questions
,
amongst
which
the
seventh
being
of
this
very
point
,
our
answer
is
quite
contrary
to
what
is
imputed
to
us
.
Our
words
are
these
,
Concerning
the
Minister
himselfe
thus
deposed
,
&c.
we
conceive
though
hee
bee
by
them
deprived
of
the
execution
of
his
Ministery
amongst
them
,
yet
untill
hee
accept
of
a
call
to
another
people
,
hee
still
remaine
a
Minister
of
Christ
;
in
whose
account
hee
hath
true
right
of
administration
among
the
people
.
Now
if
hee
remaine
a
Minister
of
Christ
,
and
have
true
right
to
administer
,
let
any
judge
whether
wee
take
away
nomen
or
esse
;
or
that
wee
make
Church
censures
worke
ex
opere
operato
,
clave
errante
,
as
is
also
imputed
to
us
.
Many
such
mistakes
we
finde
,
but
let
these
suffice
to
informe
the
Reader
how
wary
hee
had
need
bee
in
receiving
such
reports
against
brethren
:
and
this
charity
wee
have
cause
the
more
earnestly
to
crave
of
all
,
that
they
would
reserve
one
eare
to
heare
what
their
poore
out-cast
brethren
can
say
for
themselves
,
because
wee
are
placed
at
such
a
distance
and
disadvantage
,
that
oft-times
it
is
not
possible
for
us
to
take
notice
of
such
objections
,
and
return
an
answer
under
a
yeare
or
almost
two
years
,
whereby
Satan
hath
a
marvailous
advantage
to
work
strange
thought●
and
distastefull
affections
towards
us
,
and
fasten
them
so
deeply
that
hardly
they
will
bee
taken
off
again
.
But
thus
it
falleth
out
too
too
frequently
,
that
when
Brethren
,
otherwise
deare
to
each
other
,
differ
in
their
judgements
,
and
breake
out
to
open
contention
about
the
same
,
they
are
very
apt
to
make
the
opinions
of
the
contrary
party
as
unpleasing
and
absurd
to
the
judgement
of
others
,
as
may
bee
,
whence
griefe
,
offence
,
and
alienations
of
affections
(
through
the
subtilty
of
Satan
,
and
the
corruption
of
our
hearts
)
are
ready
to
follow
.
And
this
makes
us
both
fearfull
of
our selves
,
lest
wee
should
give
way
to
any
unloving
thoughts
towards
the
deare
servants
of
Christ
,
or
returne
any
offensive
language
unto
them
;
yea
,
this
causeth
us
oft
to
bewaile
that
,
which
can
never
bee
enough
lamented
,
the
sad
distances
and
sharpe
contentions
between
such
neare
brethren
,
whom
the
Lord
hath
so
conjoyned
in
the
same
Cause
of
Reformation
.
And
oh
that
our
deare
brethren
would
beare
with
us
a
little
here
,
and
give
us
leave
to
poure
out
our
humble
and
affectionate
requests
and
expostulations
into
their
bosomes
!
Wee
would
bee
very
loath
to
impute
any
thing
to
our
deare
Country
and
beloved
brethren
that
is
not
evident
,
or
to
rip
up
private
failings
,
and
make
them
publique
:
but
when
Pulpits
and
Presses
proclaime
to
the
world
not
onely
the
distances
in
judgement
,
but
also
alienation
of
affections
;
when
there
is
such
straining
to
make
the
contrary
tenents
as
odious
to
the
world
as
may
bee
,
such
inlarging
of
differences
,
as
if
the
wounds
could
never
bee
healed
;
such
gall
and
vineger
poured
on
,
in
stead
of
the
salt
of
savoury
speeches
,
and
the
oyle
of
smooth
and
soft
words
to
calm
and
pacifie
spirits
already
provoked
;
yea
,
when
there
want
not
some
that
seeke
all
private
Letters
they
can
gather
up
,
and
search
every
corner
to
discover
and
publish
to
the
world
the
seeming
failings
of
brethren
;
when
contentions
are
grown
to
that
passe
,
that
such
orthodox
,
learned
,
and
godly
brethren
whose
faithfull
labours
in
the
Lords
worke
,
and
great
service
and
use
they
may
be
of
in
time
to
come
,
might
worthily
plead
for
a
roome
in
the
bosomes
and
inmost
affections
of
their
brethren
,
are
cryed
out
against
as
not
to
bee
indured
in
the
Countrey
,
because
of
some
difference
in
some
points
of
discipline
:
when
these
things
are
so
,
who
that
have
any
sense
of
Gods
dishonour
,
or
true
love
to
his
Countreys
good
,
can
forbeare
from
teares
,
or
hold
his
peace
,
that
have
any
opportunity
to
utter
his
griefe
?
Wee
will
not
take
upon
us
to
say
who
began
this
fray
,
or
who
have
most
transgressed
the
rules
of
charity
and
wisedome
.
The
Lord
give
every
man
an
heart
that
hath
failed
to
bee
affected
with
their
owne
,
and
ready
to
pity
and
pardon
one
anothers
weaknesses
:
neither
doe
wee
hereby
blame
loving
and
candid
debating
of
differences
to
finde
out
the
truth
;
but
give
us
leave
to
say
thus
much
to
all
,
(
for
our
hearts
and
soules
are
with
all
the
faithfull
servants
of
Christ
,
that
desire
according
to
their
light
to
promote
the
kingdome
of
Christ
Jesus
,
what
ever
their
distance
of
judgement
from
us
may
be
)
What
,
deare
brethren
,
is
there
no
balme
in
Gilead
,
no
Physitian
to
heale
this
wound
?
alasse
,
how
is
it
now
so
wide
and
deep
,
that
at
the
first
was
presented
to
the
world
so
small
,
or
scarce
any
at
all
?
When
the
Prelates
petitioned
for
their
government
,
because
the
Reformers
were
not
,
nor
could
ever
agree
upon
one
Forme
:
it
was
professed
that
in
six
Points
(
whereof
some
are
now
the
greatest
bones
of
contention
)
all
did
agree
;
and
doubted
not
but
if
the
Prelates
were
downe
,
all
would
agree
in
one
.
And
was
this
bare
words
to
put
off
the
Prelaticall
petition
?
or
did
the
Author
speake
without
ground
at
adventures
?
God
forbid
wee
should
thinke
so
;
but
what
the
common
adversary
will
think
and
speak
,
it
would
grieve
a
godly
heart
to
consider
.
How
comes
it
then
to
passe
the
breach
is
growne
so
great
?
It
rejoyced
our
hearts
to
see
that
ingenuous
,
Christian
and
peaceable
disposition
in
that
ever
honoured
brother
Mr.
Herle
,
who
brought
the
distance
in
his
Preface
to
such
a
narrow
,
as
if
one
plaster
more
might
seeme
to
have
healed
it
;
oh
that
there
had
been
many
more
of
that
peace
making
spirit
!
what
heart
burnings
and
contentions
had
been
prevented
.
Wee
thought
also
that
me●ke
Apologetick
Narration
gave
a
faire
opportunity
of
closing
with
brethren
in
such
things
as
they
professed
to
concur
in
,
but
what
contrary
entertainment
it
found
,
wee
lament
to
consider
.
And
is
it
now
come
to
this
passe
,
that
these
who
were
in
a
manner
one
cannot
live
together
in
the
same
kingdome
?
Oh
the
depth
of
the
malice
and
subtilty
of
that
old
Serpent
!
Oh
the
policy
and
undermining
faculty
of
the
Jesuiticall
generation
,
(
who
no
doubt
have
a
great
influence
in
this
division
!
)
Oh
the
frailties
of
flesh
and
blood
in
Gods
dearest
Saints
!
Oh
the
unsearchable
depths
of
the
Lords
eternall
counsels
,
that
for
holy
ends
leaves
his
owne
to
such
temptations
,
and
yet
knows
how
,
and
will
assuredly
improve
all
this
to
his
owne
glory
,
and
the
lifting
up
of
the
name
and
kingdome
of
Christ
in
despite
of
all
the
gates
of
hell
;
and
give
his
servants
once
a
season
to
sing
together
this
song
of
Moses
and
of
the
Lambe
in
triumph
over
all
their
enemies
.
But
what
?
is
the
cause
past
helpe
and
remedy
?
shall
we
think
,
alasse
,
there
is
no
hope
,
they
will
not
leave
untill
they
have
devoured
each
other
,
better
for
us
to
say
nothing
,
wee
shall
bee
but
censured
and
slighted
of
all
?
God
forbid
,
have
wee
ventured
thus
farre
,
and
shall
wee
not
presume
a
little
further
?
Oh
that
we
were
worthy
and
fit
to
propound
any
thing
that
might
tend
to
mollifie
this
sore
:
Or
that
the
Lord
himselfe
would
speake
by
such
poore
creatures
any
word
in
season
to
helpe
(
at
least
a
little
)
in
this
sad
case
!
We
will
not
,
deare
Brethren
,
make
this
long
Epistle
more
tedious
by
presenting
unto
you
all
that
might
be
said
to
move
and
perswade
your
hearts
to
study
peace
and
unity
,
and
with
one
shoulder
to
set
your selves
to
further
this
blessed
worke
of
publique
Reformation
,
for
which
the
Lord
hath
put
such
an
opportunity
into
your
hands
,
as
never
was
the
like
,
and
God
knows
,
whether
ever
it
will
bee
,
if
this
bee
slipped
.
Wee
are
perswaded
,
when
the
heate
of
contention
is
laid
aside
,
the
blessed
Spirit
of
Christ
in
you
doth
secretly
suggest
arguments
enough
unto
your
hearts
.
Doe
you
not
oft
heare
such
whisperings
as
these
.
Are
they
not
Brethren
who
differ
from
us
?
hath
●ot
the
Lord
received
them
?
doe
they
not
stand
or
fall
to
their
own
Master
,
and
how
shall
wee
reject
or
judge
them
?
have
we
not
our
ignorances
and
frailties
?
what
,
is
there
no
consolation
in
Christ
,
no
comfort
of
love
,
no
fellowship
of
the
spirit
?
or
if
so
,
should
not
this
perswade
us
to
bee
of
one
minde
in
the
Lord
?
doe
wee
not
hope
to
live
in
heaven
together
,
and
shall
wee
stand
at
such
distances
here
?
shall
wee
thus
suffer
peace
to
goe
from
us
,
and
not
follow
and
pursue
it
?
shall
we
lose
the
blessing
of
peace-makers
?
shall
wee
by
such
differences
,
thus
gratifie
Satan
,
Jesuites
,
Prelates
,
&c.
and
strengthen
their
hands
by
weakening
our
owne
?
are
we
not
in
the
high-way
to
devoure
each
other
,
and
expose
all
to
ruine
?
is
it
not
high
time
for
us
that
are
one
in
the
Orthodox
truth
,
to
joyne
heart
and
hand
to
pray
,
and
preach
,
and
write
as
one
,
to
stop
the
flood-gate
of
errours
and
abominations
that
Satan
hath
set
open
to
the
drowning
of
many
soules
,
and
the
hazzard
of
many
of
the
sheep
of
Christ
,
whiles
wee
are
contending
about
some
matters
of
order
which
though
they
bee
of
moment
,
yet
must
give
way
unto
.
more
fundamentall
truths
;
and
oh
that
this
mischief
were
sufficiently
laid
to
heart
,
and
the
dangerous
spreadings
of
such
gangrenes
looked
to
in
season
!
What
will
not
all
our
vowes
,
covenants
and
solemne
Oaths
binde
us
together
?
These
and
many
such
heart-breaking
considerations
wee
doubt
not
are
before
your
eyes
daily
,
which
therefore
wee
will
not
inlarge
.
Onely
give
us
leave
to
propound
what
we
conceive
in
our
weake
judgement
might
somewhat
tend
to
heale
this
distance
.
Wee
confesse
wee
stand
farre
from
the
marke
,
and
may
misse
the
matter
,
but
if
we
doe
,
let
our
well-meaning
bee
accepted
,
and
our
weaknesse
pardoned
.
Two
things
,
as
we
touched
before
,
we
conceive
keep
our
deare
brethren
from
closing
together
in
one
to
promote
the
publique
and
generall
Reformation
.
First
,
that
point
of
Reformation
which
concernes
the
members
of
the
Churches
,
and
here
wee
feare
the
distance
at
present
is
great
.
For
when
it
's
thought
,
on
the
one
hand
,
that
there
is
no
need
of
sending
godly
Preachers
to
the
ignorant
and
prophane
Parishes
to
instruct
them
,
humble
them
,
and
prepare
them
for
a
gracious
Reformation
,
but
that
Pastors
(
if
they
could
bee
found
)
should
bee
sent
to
them
,
and
minister
to
them
as
they
are
,
if
they
will
but
joyne
in
the
nationall
Covenant
,
as
most
have
done
,
(
for
we
see
no
other
required
)
and
when
godly
Pastors
may
not
have
power
to
try
their
people
whether
they
can
examine
themselves
,
discerne
the
Lords
body
,
and
walke
according
to
Christ
,
before
they
admit
them
to
the
Lords
Table
,
nor
may
exclude
them
but
upon
some
scandalous
evill
,
which
seemes
short
of
that
which
even
the
Common-prayer-booke
did
allow
.
Considering
in
what
a
state
multitude
of
Parishes
are
in
England
,
how
full
of
Malignants
,
Atheists
,
prophane
Wretches
,
&c.
wee
must
needs
acknowledge
it
will
bee
very
hard
for
the
godly
to
satisfie
their
consciences
in
such
Church-communion
,
or
godly
Pastors
to
minister
unto
their
Parishes
in
such
a
state
,
and
therefore
wee
cannot
wholly
condemn
such
Ministers
and
people
as
have
been
gathered
into
congregations
if
there
were
no
hope
of
remedy
in
this
case
.
Secondly
,
on
the
other
hand
,
when
some
shall
gather
out
of
many
Congregations
the
most
godly
and
able
Christians
into
severed
Churches
,
wee
must
acknowledge
it
may
occasion
grief
to
the
Ministers
of
such
Congregations
.
But
is
there
no
middle
way
wherein
according
to
God
these
two
might
meet
?
wee
suppose
there
is
.
If
the
Lord
would
vouchsafe
to
help
his
people
in
these
few
things
.
1
Is
it
not
possible
to
obtaine
of
that
ever
Renowned
Parliament
,
not
onely
such
liberty
for
godly
Pastors
,
and
their
Churches
to
debarre
from
the
Lords
Table
such
as
are
not
qualified
according
to
the
former
description
of
the
Reverend
Assembly
;
but
also
all
favour
and
furtherance
from
Authority
to
purge
out
of
the
Church
all
such
according
to
rule
,
that
live
impenitently
in
any
known
sinne
and
scandalous
evill
?
we
cannot
doubt
but
that
if
brethren
would
agree
with
one
heart
to
petition
the
same
,
such
as
have
done
so
worthily
many
things
for
purging
the
House
of
God
,
would
also
promote
this
needfull
point
of
Reformation
.
2
If
all
the
godly
Ministers
would
joyne
as
one
man
,
and
take
unto
them
the
zeale
of
John
Bap.
thundering
out
the
direfull
wrath
of
God
against
the
pride
,
vanity
,
luxury
,
prophanenesse
,
and
late
swarmes
of
monstrous
errors
,
(
the
usuall
tares
accompanying
Reformation
)
and
other
sinnes
of
the
time
,
to
lay
all
levell
before
the
Lord
;
and
with
holy
Calvin
,
resolve
to
suffer
their
hands
to
bee
cut
off
rather
,
then
to
deliver
that
holy
seale
of
grace
to
the
openly
wicked
and
impenitent
sinner
;
how
would
the
Lord
goe
out
with
his
servants
,
and
cut
downe
sin
by
the
sharpe
sword
of
Vid.
Pe●
.
Mart.
Loc.
Com.
de
Excom.
his
Word
,
and
severity
of
Discipline
,
if
all
joyned
together
?
Whereas
we
feare
sin
and
prophanenesse
will
out-stare
all
godly
Pastors
,
when
they
stand
so
much
divided
.
3
If
these
things
being
obtained
and
agreed
,
all
godly
Ministers
and
Christians
,
which
are
the
salt
of
the
earth
,
and
might
by
the
blessing
of
God
season
the
Congregations
wherein
they
live
,
they
would
not
cast
them
off
,
or
withdraw
from
them
,
till
first
by
publike
and
private
admonitions
and
exhortations
they
had
convinced
them
of
sin
,
and
sought
by
all
good
meanes
their
reformation
.
Whereby
some
no
doubt
might
be
gained
,
and
what
a
blessed
worke
were
that
?
And
as
for
others
that
prove
obstinate
and
impenitent
,
there
would
bee
just
cause
of
rejecting
them
from
the
ordinances
and
society
of
the
Church
;
or
if
this
part
of
the
kingdom
of
Christ
would
not
be
born
in
Congregations
,
with
how
much
peace
and
satisfaction
to
their
owne
soules
,
and
to
the
consciences
of
all
,
should
such
godly
Ministers
and
people
withdraw
themselves
from
them
,
to
a
nearer
communion
one
with
another
?
And
shall
wee
not
hope
that
England
is
capable
of
such
a
Reformation
as
this
,
if
Gods
faithfull
Ministers
would
with
one
heart
and
mind
endeavour
the
same
?
Farre
,
farre
be
it
from
our
deare
Countrey
,
after
all
those
notable
steps
unto
Reformation
,
that
it
should
stick
in
this
,
which
is
the
life
of
all
the
rest
.
But
if
it
should
bee
so
,
that
either
the
great
ones
should
bee
too
big
to
stoope
downe
to
the
Lord
Jesus
in
the
wayes
of
his
wholsome
Discipline
;
or
the
multitude
so
carnall
,
worldly
,
wilfull
,
prophane
,
impenitent
,
as
not
to
reforme
themselves
,
families
,
and
so
their
congregations
,
humbly
submitting
to
the
rule
of
Christ
;
or
if
the
Ministers
(
at
least
,
most
of
them
)
should
looke
at
preferment
,
honour
,
credit
,
riches
,
authority
over
the
people
,
and
not
minde
such
a
work
as
this
is
:
And
this
,
after
all
the
heavy
,
humbling
,
dreadfull
judgements
of
God
come
upon
the
Land
;
after
all
the
glorious
out-breakings
of
the
light
of
the
Gospel
in
many
parts
of
the
Kingdome
;
after
all
the
protestations
,
covenants
,
oaths
,
whereby
so
many
have
bound
themselves
to
this
particular
reformation
of
themselves
,
and
to
further
the
reformation
of
the
Publique
;
wee
tremble
to
speake
it
,
but
our
hearts
cannot
but
feare
it
,
that
woe
,
woe
,
woe
will
bee
to
poore
sinfull
England
.
It
seemes
to
us
to
bee
a
propheticall
speech
of
Mr.
Brinsly
,
long
since
at
rest
with
God
,
when
lamenting
the
prophanenesse
of
England
,
with
their
connivence
at
Popery
,
and
complyance
with
the
wicked
;
he
saith
,
That
if
the
Lord
of
Hosts
doe
call
for
them
,
(
meaning
the
Popish
faction
)
to
rise
up
against
us
in
new
conspiracies
,
or
open
violence
,
and
with
them
all
the
crew
of
wicked
and
ungodly
men
,
in
whom
we
have
so
delighted
,
to
take
part
with
those
to
our
destruction
,
(
as
they
,
it
is
to
bee
feared
,
will
be
as
outragious
as
the
other
against
all
soundly
fearing
God
)
is
it
not
just
?
yea
if
hee
should
let
them
make
it
bellum
prodigorum
,
the
day
of
all
the
spend-thrifts
,
and
of
all
the
vile
persons
of
the
Land
,
to
have
their
fingers
in
every
mans
coffers
,
and
their
hands
washed
in
the
blood
of
them
,
whom
they
have
hated
,
so
soon
as
ever
any
of
the
Babylonish
Brins
:
Watch
,
part
3.
cap.
10.
designes
shall
take
their
effect
,
could
wee
wonder
at
it
?
And
is
not
this
fulfilled
in
these
times
?
which
wee
wish
may
well
bee
laid
to
heart
.
The
second
thing
which
wee
conceive
may
chiefly
hinder
this
closing
,
is
that
point
of
Church
government
,
which
concernes
the
power
and
liberties
of
particular
Churches
or
Congregations
,
and
here
wee
must
acknowledge
the
distance
is
too
great
.
For
on
the
one
side
,
wee
cannot
see
either
by
Treatises
,
or
by
the
Directory
for
Worship
,
that
Congregations
are
acknowledged
to
bee
compleat
Churches
,
especially
standing
among
other
Churches
,
or
that
any
power
or
liberty
is
given
to
them
to
administer
Church
censures
,
no
not
so
long
as
they
administer
rightly
according
to
the
rule
,
but
all
such
power
is
taken
indeed
from
the
Churches
,
though
in
words
they
are
perswaded
that
it
is
to
strengthen
them
;
and
if
this
also
come
down
from
the
Catholick
Church
,
and
so
to
lesser
Synods
,
the
greater
part
having
power
over
the
lesse
,
as
it
were
jure
divino
,
it
will
strike
sore
at
the
liberties
and
power
of
particular
Churches
.
But
what
here
to
say
of
the
distance
on
the
other
hand
,
wee
cannot
tell
,
wee
see
or
read
nothing
,
but
that
our
deare
and
honoured
Brethren
doe
freely
imbrace
communion
of
Churches
in
consultative
Synods
,
for
the
brotherly
helpe
of
each
other
,
and
the
weaker
Churches
;
yea
,
and
in
a
doctrinall
way
to
declare
the
will
of
Christ
,
and
to
threaten
his
judgements
against
such
as
shall
refuse
wholsome
counsell
,
and
withdraw
communion
from
such
as
wilfully
refuse
to
heare
what
is
propounded
according
to
the
minde
of
Christ
.
And
what
should
we
here
say
?
but
on
the
bended
knees
of
our
soules
intreat
our
reverend
Brethren
to
consider
what
power
any
or
many
Churches
can
challenge
over
another
,
to
require
them
to
give
up
their
right
to
them
,
to
rule
in
common
,
if
a
sister
Church
furnished
with
Officers
shall
refuse
the
same
;
or
what
rule
bindeth
the
Churches
of
an
hundred
,
or
any
such
civill
division
to
come
into
such
a
combination
with
those
Churches
,
rather
then
others
,
if
that
refusing
,
Churches
have
just
reasons
to
object
against
such
Churches
,
or
their
Officers
.
We
think
the
more
voluntary
and
free
such
consociations
are
,
the
better
:
Here
we
shall
be
bold
to
propound
this
one
thing
,
viz.
Why
may
not
the
fifth
and
sixth
Articles
of
agreement
publikely
professed
to
the
world
,
in
answer
to
the
Prelaticall
petition
,
obtaine
amongst
our
Brethren
,
that
it
may
appeare
to
the
disappointment
of
their
hopes
,
that
the
Prelates
being
downe
,
the
agreement
would
be
easie
,
as
is
there
said
.
Viz.
Ar.
5.
Each
particular
Church
hath
her
owne
power
and
authority
,
and
the
use
and
benefit
of
all
the
ordinances
of
Christ
;
neither
is
there
any
thing
to
be
done
without
the
expresse
or
tacit
consent
of
the
Congregation
,
in
matters
which
are
proper
and
peculiar
to
a
particular
Church
,
whether
in
election
or
ordination
of
Ministers
,
or
in
admitting
or
excommunicating
of
members
.
Ar.
6.
It
is
in
many
respects
expedient
both
for
the
members
of
each
Church
,
whether
Ministers
or
people
,
and
for
the
right
governing
and
well-being
of
the
particular
Churches
,
in
a
Nation
professing
Christian
Religion
,
that
besides
their
particular
Assemblies
and
Elderships
,
they
meet
by
their
▪
Commissioners
,
Ministers
,
and
Elders
in
greater
Assemblies
,
that
matters
that
concern
all
the
Churches
within
their
bounds
respective
may
with
common
advice
and
consent
be
agreed
upon
for
their
good
and
edification
.
And
we
hope
the
Lord
may
yet
have
such
a
mercy
for
England
,
if
the
crying
sins
thereof
bee
not
still
impenitently
against
this
glorious
shining
light
of
the
Gospel
,
persisted
in
,
which
wee
confesse
is
our
greatest
feare
,
Godly
Brethren
wee
hope
would
agree
,
if
Englands
sins
hinder
not
.
We
confesse
it
was
the
saddest
newes
that
this
yeare
came
unto
our
eares
,
that
the
Kingdome
of
Christ
is
hardly
like
to
obtaine
,
so
much
jealousie
there
is
,
lest
the
discipline
of
Christ
should
,
crosse
▪
the
licentionsnesse
of
this
age
;
yea
,
that
generally
there
is
no
more
regard
of
the
solemn
Covenant
,
especially
in
personall
reformation
,
then
if
it
were
never
made
,
that
many
reject
the
reformations
they
seemed
to
desire
at
the
first
.
These
,
with
other
sad
things
come
to
our
eares
,
which
sadden
our
spirits
.
Oh
England
!
England
!
our
beloved
England
!
wilt
thou
not
be
made
cleane
?
when
will
it
once
bee
?
wilt
thou
still
return
the
Lord
Jesus
,
(
graciously
striving
with
thee
for
to
save
thee
)
such
an
unkind
answer
,
We
will
not
have
this
man
reigne
over
us
?
hast
thou
not
yet
learned
so
much
wisdom
,
as
to
kisse
the
son
,
no
not
now
when
he
is
angry
and
the
sword
in
his
hand
?
That
voice
of
God
soundeth
oft
in
our
eares
,
when
wee
thinke
of
England
,
Put
off
thine
ornaments
,
that
I
may
know
what
to
doe
unto
thee
;
but
for
ought
we
heare
,
the
pride
of
England
did
never
so
much
testifie
to
their
faces
as
now
,
when
sackcloth
and
ashes
were
more
suitable
.
The
Lord
humble
the
hearts
of
our
deare
Countrey-men
,
or
else
wee
feare
the
yoake
of
Christ
will
never
be
born
,
and
how
the
Lord
Jesus
will
beare
and
indure
that
,
we
tremble
to
think
.
But
what
doe
we
thus
to
take
upon
us
,
and
let
loose
our
Pen
so
far
?
pardon
,
we
beseech
you
,
Christian
Reader
,
this
seeming
boldnesse
,
it
is
our
hearty
affection
to
the
peace
and
prosperity
of
our
deare
Countrey
,
and
the
Saints
of
God
in
it
,
that
have
drawn
these
things
from
us
.
Say
not
,
what
calling
have
these
thus
to
admonish
and
censure
us
?
Censure
we
doe
not
,
(
that
we
would
doe
onely
to
our selves
)
but
faithfully
to
admonish
and
exhort
in
the
Lord
,
we
hope
we
may
presume
.
Neither
have
we
taken
upon
us
this
whole
weighty
worke
,
of
our
owne
minds
,
but
at
the
request
and
call
of
divers
our
reverend
Brethren
,
whose
voice
herein
we
looked
upon
as
the
voice
of
God
;
nor
have
wee
accepted
that
call
,
out
of
any
lust
we
have
to
contend
,
or
enter
the
lists
of
disputation
with
any
.
Wee
love
the
peace
of
the
Churches
,
and
unity
and
concord
with
all
our
deare
and
godly
Brethren
too
well
,
to
have
any
such
ends
.
And
though
wee
are
not
unwilling
to
receive
and
consider
any
returne
that
may
bee
made
,
and
we
hope
with
a
mind
to
submit
to
the
truth
;
yet
wee
must
professe
Two
things
chiefly
inclined
us
to
undertake
this
worke
.
First
,
to
cleare
up
such
truths
as
we
conceive
to
bee
according
to
the
minde
of
Christ
,
which
were
obscured
by
this
Reply
.
Secondly
,
(
and
that
especially
)
hoping
that
what
wee
should
write
,
would
tend
rather
to
a
peaceable
healing
of
offences
and
differences
,
then
otherwise
;
and
therefore
have
presumed
to
Preface
thus
farre
,
and
so
to
present
these
our
affectionate
requests
to
our
deare
Brethren
,
and
Country-men
,
which
wee
heartily
recommend
to
their
serious
consideration
,
and
to
the
blessing
of
God
,
who
onely
can
incline
the
hearts
of
men
,
to
attend
to
any
thing
of
God
set
before
them
;
though
wee
bee
the
meanest
and
weakest
of
many
,
to
take
upon
us
,
thus
to
speake
to
our
deare
Country-men
,
yet
through
the
grace
of
Christ
who
put
us
into
the
Ministery
,
we
have
bestowed
a
great
part
of
our
labour
in
these
parts
,
neither
(
we
hope
)
altogether
in
vaine
;
which
makes
us
somewhat
the
more
engaged
and
encouraged
to
write
as
we
doe
.
And
now
having
thus
farre
in
this
Epistle
,
and
in
the
Booke
following
,
testified
our
love
to
the
truth
,
and
desires
of
the
peace
,
unity
,
reformation
,
and
prosperity
of
our
beloved
England
,
and
the
Churches
of
God
therein
,
wee
commend
both
to
the
consideration
of
the
Reader
,
and
all
to
the
grace
and
blessing
of
Christ
Jesus
,
and
rest
.
From
New-England
,
Novemb.
28.
1645.
THO.
ALLIN
,
THO.
SHEPARD
.
ADVERTISEMENTS
TO
THE
READER
.
TO
the
Epistle
of
the
Author
of
this
Reply
wee
say
nothing
,
because
it
savours
(
for
the
most
part
)
of
love
and
desire
of
unity
,
which
we
thankfully
acknowledge
;
onely
we
cannot
but
take
notice
of
two
passages
.
1
A
complaint
made
against
some
standing
affected
New-England
ward
,
who
have
carryed
it
so
,
as
if
a
chiefe
part
of
holinesse
consisted
in
separation
;
and
that
therefore
some
have
separated
from
all
private
and
publique
communion
there
;
others
from
all
publique
,
but
not
from
private
;
others
from
the
Sacraments
onely
,
allowing
publique
communion
otherwise
.
To
which
wee
answer
,
that
as
the
Church
fell
by
degrees
into
universall
pollution
,
by
the
Apostasie
foretold
to
bee
under
the
Man
of
Sin
;
so
by
degrees
it
recovers
out
of
it
againe
:
If
therefore
separation
reach
no
farther
then
separation
from
sinnes
,
and
such
sinnes
of
Churches
wherein
our selves
in
joyning
with
them
must
bee
involved
,
wee
suppose
such
separation
(
all
due
respect
and
love
reserved
and
professed
to
the
Churches
themselves
)
cannot
justly
bee
accounted
unwarrantable
;
and
't
is
the
profession
of
the
Author
in
his
Epistle
,
to
plead
for
communion
with
the
Churches
of
Christ
,
no
farther
then
they
hold
communion
with
Christ
:
If
any
transgresse
these
bounds
,
either
in
respect
of
private
or
publique
communion
in
England
,
wee
must
professe
openly
,
that
if
any
mourn
for
it
,
wee
are
(
or
would
bee
)
companions
with
them
in
that
griefe
.
Whose
heart
bleeds
not
to
see
Gods
flock
scattered
,
and
needlesse
rents
made
?
that
scarce
Truth
or
errour
can
now
adayes
bee
received
,
but
it
is
maintained
in
a
way
of
Schisme
;
directly
contrary
to
the
gathering
and
uniting
Spirit
of
Jesus
Christ
:
A
wide
Conscience
calls
evill
,
good
,
and
therefore
can
communicate
with
any
evill
;
a
strait
Conscience
cals
good
,
evill
,
(
as
Gerson
observes
)
and
therefore
can
readily
separate
even
from
that
which
is
good
.
When
rash
and
sudden
men
are
grown
masters
of
their
Consciences
,
it
troubles
not
them
from
whom
they
divide
,
nor
whither
they
run
in
separate
wayes
;
when
weak
(
yet
godly
men
)
are
under
the
tendernesse
,
(
yet
much
darknesse
)
of
Conscience
,
being
very
timorous
of
wayes
that
are
evill
,
grow
many
times
shy
(
at
least
in
simplicity
are
led
)
from
wayes
that
afterward
are
found
to
be
lawfull
and
good
.
'T
is
the
usuall
misery
of
English
spirits
,
either
to
spin
the
Spiders
web
,
and
swallow
down
all
corruptions
in
Churches
;
or
so
to
breake
downe
the
gap
in
forsaking
corruptions
utterly
to
abandon
the
Churches
themselves
:
The
wine
of
causelesse
separation
hath
a
spirit
in
it
,
(
if
God
graciously
prevent
not
)
that
hurries
men
headlong
to
strange
distances
,
that
in
separating
from
publique
,
they
separate
from
private
;
in
separating
from
corrupt
Churches
(
as
no
Churches
)
they
separate
from
the
purest
,
even
those
of
their
own
;
in
separating
from
pollutions
of
Gods
ordinances
,
at
last
they
fall
to
the
storming
of
some
,
if
not
to
the
utter
renouncing
of
all
the
Ordinances
themselves
:
we
mourne
(
wee
say
)
for
such
evills
,
and
could
with
bended
knees
desire
our
deare
Countrey-men
to
consider
,
whether
this
bee
the
Spirit
of
Christ
Jesus
that
so
carries
them
;
to
reject
them
whom
the
Lord
Jesus
hath
not
yet
wholly
forsaken
;
and
not
rather
with
one
heart
,
and
with
bowells
of
compassion
(
if
any
liberty
can
bee
procured
)
to
study
how
to
heale
the
bleeding
breaches
,
and
manifold
evills
of
sick
and
sinfull
England
,
that
in
their
owne
recovery
from
pollutions
,
the
whole
may
arise
and
share
alike
with
them
therein
;
tolerating
with
all
long-suffering
many
things
amisse
,
&
mourning
daily
after
the
Lord
,
till
such
times
come
wherein
he
wil
give
his
people
his
ordinances
,
not
only
in
purity
,
but
also
in
power
;
when
the
Lord
shall
be
one
,
and
his
name
one
,
Zach.
14.
9.
over
all
the
earth
.
As
for
our selves
,
wee
look
not
upon
our
departure
to
these
parts
to
be
a
separation
(
rigidly
taken
)
but
a
lawfull
secession
,
or
a
heavenly
translation
from
corrupt
to
more
pure
Churches
,
by
the
hand
of
our
God
;
and
how
far
we
allow
of
separation
,
the
ensuing
Treatise
will
declare
.
2
The
second
is
,
That
we
dissent
one
from
another
as
much
as
others
from
us
,
and
perhaps
the
lesser
part
of
us
.
Answ.
We
confesse
we
know
but
little
,
and
that
but
in
part
,
and
therefore
if
we
should
say
,
that
in
some
things
we
did
not
dissent
,
we
should
not
speak
the
truth
,
nor
say
that
we
were
sinfull
men
;
yet
this
we
must
speak
to
his
praise
whose
we
are
,
and
whom
we
serve
with
our
spirits
in
the
Gospel
of
his
Son
;
that
although
Satan
hath
been
oft
busie
to
make
breaches
among
us
,
yet
the
Ministers
of
Christ
have
been
hitherto
generally
(
if
not
all
)
of
one
heart
and
mind
in
the
maine
and
principall
things
of
his
Kingdom
amongst
us
:
and
(
which
is
observed
by
many
)
where
ever
differences
are
sown
,
yet
the
Ministers
never
disagree
:
and
that
although
some
differences
have
and
doe
arise
before
their
convening
together
,
yet
they
never
yet
met
,
but
grace
hath
over-wrestled
corruption
;
peace
,
trouble
;
and
truth
,
errour
;
and
so
have
most
sweetly
accorded
in
one
;
the
thoughts
of
which
Christ-like
peaceablenesse
of
spirit
and
love
,
as
it
oft
sweetens
many
other
sorrows
,
so
we
desire
to
bee
spared
herein
,
and
that
this
our
crowne
may
not
bee
taken
from
us
by
such
passages
,
(
suggesting
great
differences
)
as
these
be
.
Now
for
the
Reply
it self
,
we
desire
the
Reader
to
consider
,
that
we
had
neither
time
,
nor
Bookes
ready
at
hand
to
consider
some
of
the
quotations
made
in
the
margent
;
and
therfore
being
such
testimonies
as
cast
not
the
ballance
one
way
or
another
,
we
have
passed
most
of
them
by
with
silence
.
It
had
also
been
easie
for
us
to
have
Analysed
more
orderly
the
words
of
the
Reply
,
then
as
they
are
set
downe
;
but
(
because
we
would
not
doe
the
least
wrong
)
we
have
set
them
down
as
we
finde
them
in
the
Book
;
not
every
passage
(
for
that
were
needlesse
)
but
those
things
wherein
there
seemes
to
bee
any
observable
matter
of
dispute
between
us
;
nor
are
we
conscious
of
doing
the
Author
the
least
wrong
in
setting
down
his
own
words
,
as
hereafter
you
find
them
.
We
confesse
,
that
in
sundry
of
our
Answers
,
we
have
studied
not
onely
to
answer
to
the
Reply
,
but
have
taken
in
what
sundry
others
godly
learned
object
against
our
principles
,
but
without
mentioning
(
scarce
any
time
)
their
Names
,
of
which
we
are
sparing
for
no
other
reason
,
but
because
we
honour
the
men
from
our
very
hearts
,
and
could
wish
(
though
differently
minded
from
us
in
some
things
)
as
Melanchthon
did
in
another
the
like
case
,
to
live
and
die
in
their
bosomes
.
The
name
of
this
servant
of
Christ
now
asleep
,
is
an
oyntment
poured
out
and
precious
to
us
;
we
could
therefore
have
wisht
it
our
portion
to
have
answered
the
Booke
without
the
least
reflecting
upon
him
,
but
the
necessity
herein
is
unavoydable
.
This
onely
we
adde
,
that
whatever
weaknesses
may
passe
from
us
,
let
them
not
bee
imputed
to
those
servants
of
Christ
,
that
set
us
on
work
,
and
have
wanted
leisure
to
review
what
is
here
done
;
Every
one
may
not
bee
in
all
things
of
the
same
mind
with
us
,
for
they
may
meet
us
in
the
same
end
,
though
they
use
not
the
same
arguments
,
or
become
followers
of
us
in
the
same
path
;
yet
we
know
wee
are
not
alone
in
any
thing
,
but
may
safely
say
thus
much
,
that
what
is
here
defended
,
is
generally
acknowledged
and
received
in
these
Churches
of
Christ
.
A
DEFENCE
OF
THE
NINE
POSITIONS
.
CHAP.
I.
Concerning
the
Title
.
WHereas
it
is
called
a
new
Church-way
;
wee
little
expected
that
Brethren
studious
of
Reformation
,
who
have
been
so
exercised
with
imputations
of
novelty
,
would
have
so
readily
,
and
in
the
frontispice
cast
the
same
upon
us
,
who
with
them
desire
to
walk
in
the
first
wayes
of
our
Lord
Jesus
Christ
and
his
holy
Apostles
;
but
as
in
most
substantiall
points
of
Church-order
,
wee
goe
along
with
the
best
reformed
Churches
,
so
wee
doubt
not
to
make
it
good
that
wherein
wee
(
pressing
after
further
Reformation
)
seeme
to
differ
from
them
;
yet
wee
build
upon
Scripture
grounds
acknowledged
by
many
godly
and
Learned
Reformers
,
in
our
English
and
other
reformed
Churches
:
which
,
if
the
Lord
have
in
mercy
given
us
further
light
,
(
or
rather
opportunity
to
practise
)
then
they
had
,
let
it
not
bee
imputed
to
us
for
novelty
.
A
new
edition
of
the
old
Church-way
of
godly
Reformers
,
in
some
things
perhaps
corrected
and
amended
,
is
no
new
Church-way
;
or
if
it
be
thought
the
mending
of
some
crooks
in
the
old
way
make
a
new
way
,
wee
answer
with
Junius
in
a
case
not
unlike
;
Vteunque
novam
esse
videatur
,
attamen
quaecunque
sunt
vetera
,
fuerunt
nova
,
ac
non
propterea
novitati●
nomine
vitiosa
,
Jun.
lib.
1.
paral.
6.
nisi
forte
novam
pro
renovatâ
&
restitutâ
accipitis
;
quo
sensu
novam
esse
hanc
viam
agnoscimus
.
One
thing
more
in
the
Title
page
the
Reader
is
to
take
notice
of
,
that
whereas
it
is
said
,
This
Treatise
of
Mr.
Ball
was
penned
a
little
before
his
death
,
and
sent
over
1637.
it
seemes
to
bee
a
mistake
of
the
Printer
;
for
the
Nine
Questions
themselves
were
sent
over
1636
,
the
answer
returned
38
,
but
miscarrying
,
another
was
sent
39.
from
which
time
wee
longingly
expected
a
return
,
but
partly
for
the
reason
rendred
in
the
Epistle
,
and
what
else
wee
know
not
,
wee
never
in
so
many
yeares
received
any
,
till
this
printed
Reply
by
a
Friends
meanes
came
occasionally
to
our
hands
,
1644.
Concerning
the
Epistle
to
the
Reader
.
Whereas
the
publishers
of
this
Treatise
impute
unto
us
,
or
some
related
to
our
Cause
,
That
we
are
the
Volunteers
,
such
as
cry
up
this
way
,
and
forward
to
blow
such
things
abroad
in
the
world
,
which
pressed
them
to
make
this
Controversie
publique
.
1
Wee
may
truly
professe
before
the
world
,
that
our
Epistle
sent
with
our
former
Answer
,
proceeded
from
a
spirit
of
love
and
peace
,
with
an
humble
willingnesse
to
receive
further
light
by
the
holy
and
just
Animadversions
of
our
reverend
and
beloved
Brethren
,
which
wee
earnestly
expected
as
men
searching
after
the
truth
.
2
That
wee
were
altogether
ignorant
of
the
Printing
of
that
our
Answer
;
and
in
that
it
was
published
then
,
was
not
without
our
utter
dislike
;
wee
have
neither
sounded
trumpet
,
nor
struck
up
drum
to
any
(
if
any
such
)
volunteers
,
wee
heartily
grieve
that
there
are
any
differences
between
Brethren
,
much
more
that
they
should
bee
published
;
most
of
all
,
if
before
they
bee
privately
debated
,
and
brought
to
some
head
by
mutual
consent
,
are
thought
fit
to
be
sent
out
to
publique
considerations
.
3
For
our
Brethren
in
England
,
we
know
no
reason
to
question
the
truth
of
that
Apology
of
our
Brother
,
Mr.
Thomas
Weld
,
in
his
answer
to
W.
R.
pag.
2.
Obj.
3.
Answ.
1.
where
he
professeth
in
the
name
of
himselfe
and
others
of
our
way
,
a
lothnesse
to
appeare
in
the
case
,
and
that
although
they
had
Bookes
of
this
subject
ready
for
the
Presse
,
yet
by
joint
consent
they
suppressed
them
,
(
happily
to
the
detriment
of
the
Cause
)
being
unwilling
to
blow
a
fire
;
and
whether
they
appeared
in
Pulpit
or
Presse
without
instigation
,
and
how
sparingly
,
hee
appeales
to
all
the
godly
to
judge
.
4
Lastly
,
wee
desire
our
Brethren
to
consider
the
date
of
Mr.
Ball
his
Booke
printed
for
stinted
Liturgies
,
(
one
chiefe
part
of
this
controversie
)
and
the
Printed
answer
to
the
Nine
questions
,
and
let
that
resolve
the
question
,
who
of
us
came
first
Volunteers
into
the
field
;
and
if
any
through
weaknesse
,
or
zeale
without
knowledge
,
have
been
too
clamorous
to
cry
up
New-England
way
,
with
reproach
to
others
;
wee
desire
the
world
to
take
notice
,
that
they
have
neither
patent
nor
patterne
from
us
so
to
doe
,
who
came
not
hither
proudly
to
censure
others
,
but
to
reforme
our
owne
.
CHAP.
II.
Qu.
1.
That
a
stinted
Forme
of
Prayer
and
set
Liturgie
i●
unlawfull
.
Reply
.
THis
Position
cannot
beare
that
meaning
which
you
give
it
,
if
you
take
it
according
to
our
minds
,
and
the
plaine
construction
of
the
words
.
We
never
questioned
why
you
made
not
use
of
a
Liturgie
,
&c.
Answ.
Let
our
Answer
bee
viewed
,
and
it
will
appeare
that
wee
had
just
cause
to
premise
those
distinctions
of
Formes
of
Prayer
into
private
and
publike
;
and
publike
into
such
as
are
imposed
by
others
,
or
composed
and
used
by
Ministers
themselves
before
their
Sermons
;
otherwise
we
must
have
involved
such
in
the
Position
,
as
wee
doe
not
condemn
.
Now
if
your
generall
thesis
justly
admit
such
limitation
to
publike
imposed
Formes
,
where
shall
wee
finde
any
set
stinted
imposed
Liturgies
,
but
in
Churches
of
the
Papacy
or
Prelacy
?
no
Reformed
Churches
stinting
or
imposing
their
Formes
of
Prayer
,
but
leaving
Ministers
and
people
at
much
liberty
.
Onely
the
English
Liturgy
therefore
is
such
,
according
to
the
plaine
construction
of
the
words
.
2
Concerning
your
minds
in
the
Position
,
wee
deny
not
but
you
might
intend
to
draw
from
us
an
approbation
of
stinted
Liturgies
in
generall
,
that
so
you
might
have
to
stay
the
separation
of
people
from
your
Liturgy
,
whereof
you
complaine
:
but
by
that
it
appeares
plainly
,
what
your
chiefe
scope
and
ayme
was
in
the
Position
:
according
unto
which
wee
thought
it
most
safe
and
pertinent
for
us
to
answer
.
And
this
wee
did
the
rather
,
for
our
reason
mentioned
in
our
letter
,
because
though
all
of
us
could
not
concurre
to
condemne
all
set
Formes
as
unlawfull
,
yet
wee
could
in
this
,
viz.
that
though
some
set
Forms
may
bee
lawfull
,
yet
it
will
not
follow
,
that
this
of
the
English
Liturgy
is
,
therefore
to
remove
all
obscurities
,
and
breake
all
snares
,
and
resolve
the
question
in
the
true
intent
of
it
,
wee
were
forced
to
distinguish
of
Formes
,
and
so
touch
the
true
Helena
of
this
controversie
;
and
therefore
if
any
shall
narrowly
observe
Mr.
Ball
his
large
defence
of
set
Forms
in
generall
,
they
shall
finde
those
wings
spread
forth
in
a
very
great
breadth
,
to
give
some
shelter
and
warmth
to
that
particular
Liturgie
,
then
languishing
,
and
hastening
(
through
age
and
feeblenesse
)
towards
its
last
end
.
Reply
.
It
is
true
,
people
separate
from
our
Liturgie
,
because
stinted
,
not
because
this
,
or
that
,
or
ours
in
particular
.
Answ.
If
because
it's
stinted
,
then
because
yours
,
for
we
know
none
properly
such
,
but
yours
,
and
it
may
well
bee
one
offence
to
all
godly
consciences
,
that
yours
are
so
imposed
and
stinted
as
they
bee
:
though
it
is
hardly
credible
to
us
,
(
so
farre
as
our
observation
reach
)
that
the
main
causes
of
the
godly
withdrawing
from
your
Liturgy
,
should
be
the
stinting
of
it
,
when
so
many
corruptions
in
Matter
and
Forme
have
been
objected
against
it
,
by
the
best
godly
Reformers
.
And
seeing
the
same
persons
will
joyne
with
Prayers
of
godly
Preachers
,
though
they
use
the
same
forme
of
prayer
usually
,
and
so
in
a
large
sense
freely
stinting
themselves
thereto
,
though
not
properly
in
such
sense
as
your
Liturgy
is
stinted
.
Reply
.
But
say
you
,
such
set
Formes
used
by
Preachers
are
disliked
also
,
and
your
reasons
,
especially
the
two
last
,
why
you
admit
not
a
stinted
Liturgie
,
conclude
against
both
in
our
understanding
.
Answ.
Wee
deny
not
but
some
may
dislike
the
constant
use
of
such
Formes
,
especially
when
studiously
framed
with
elegancy
of
phrases
,
and
as
the
manner
of
some
is
;
but
doe
any
we
now
speak
of
,
condemne
all
use
thereof
?
or
withdraw
from
them
that
use
them
?
which
is
now
the
case
in
hand
:
For
our
parts
,
wee
neither
know
such
men
;
or
if
we
did
,
we
should
condemn
such
minds
.
As
for
our
Reasons
in
generall
,
or
the
two
last
you
mention
in
particular
,
it
passeth
our
understanding
to
conceive
,
how
any
such
inference
can
bee
made
;
if
the
Reply
had
formed
the
inferences
from
our
arguments
,
it
may
bee
wee
should
have
seene
more
by
the
helpe
of
such
spectacles
.
But
passing
over
what
we
say
to
the
Position
,
as
we
interpret
it
,
you
think
fit
to
advertise
us
of
some
things
,
which
are
●ix
.
Reply
.
Advert
.
1.
Your
reasons
why
you
accept
not
a
stinted
Liturgie
,
are
ambiguously
propounded
,
and
so
,
that
such
as
looke
at
stinted
Liturgies
as
images
,
forbidden
Command
.
2.
may
easily
draw
your
words
to
their
meaning
.
Answ.
If
our
Reasons
themselves
being
sound
,
and
unanswered
by
you
,
contain
any
thing
that
may
be
drawn
to
such
a
Position
;
that
cannot
arise
from
the
ambiguousnesse
of
words
which
are
plaine
,
but
from
their
abuse
who
mis-apply
them
.
Reply
.
Advert
.
2.
The
Reasons
you
bring
against
a
set
forme
of
Prayer
,
doe
hold
as
strong
against
a
set
forme
of
Catechisme
,
confession
and
profession
of
faith
,
blessing
,
baptizing
,
and
singing
of
Psalmes
.
Answ.
1
Concerning
forms
of
Catechismes
,
and
confessions
of
Faith
,
if
religiously
and
perspicuously
framed
,
wee
account
them
of
singular
use
,
(
though
abused
by
men
)
nor
without
some
sacred
allowance
:
yet
from
hence
to
infer
the
like
use
of
set
Formes
of
prayers
,
neither
our
reasons
,
nor
any
other
will
in
force
:
for
Catechismes
and
Confessions
(
as
well
as
Psalmes
)
in
the
nature
of
the
thing
,
require
in
some
sense
a
set
and
limited
Forme
;
but
publike
prayers
,
though
they
may
admit
of
a
set
and
comely
order
in
the
generall
,
to
prevent
errour
;
yet
of
their
owne
nature
they
require
no
set
Forme
;
for
God
gives
us
no
new
matter
or
doctrine
daily
to
be
beleeved
,
but
he
gives
new
matter
of
new
affection
in
prayer
daily
.
2
If
by
set
Forms
of
Catechismes
and
Confessions
,
bee
meant
(
according
to
the
termes
of
the
Question
)
stinted
Formes
,
like
stinted
Liturgies
,
i.
e.
beyond
,
or
short
of
which
,
Ministers
may
not
teach
,
or
Christians
beleeve
and
professe
,
then
wee
should
say
the
same
of
these
as
wee
doe
of
stinted
Formes
of
Prayer
;
wee
confesse
there
is
danger
in
casting
by
all
Formes
of
Confessions
and
Catechismes
,
lest
through
the
instability
of
ungrounded
and
heady
men
,
pretending
new
light
,
or
searching
after
further
light
,
the
Churches
adhere
to
nothing
:
and
their
Faith
(
as
the
learned
Leyden
Professors
terme
it
)
become
fides
h●raria
,
or
menstrua
,
The
faith
of
an
houre
or
moneth
,
and
then
cast
it
off
the
next
.
And
on
the
other
side
there
is
danger
,
that
by
imposing
such
Confessions
too
far
,
that
which
is
indeed
further
light
be
supprest
;
wee
therefore
thinke
it
usefull
and
needfull
to
pave
out
such
high
wayes
of
Catechismes
and
Confessions
,
so
as
the
subjects
of
Christ
Jesus
our
King
and
Law-giver
may
walke
therein
without
shackles
,
reserving
liberty
for
further
future
light
,
in
points
lesse
cleare
,
yet
standing
in
a
readinesse
alwayes
to
confesse
and
hold
fast
the
present
truth
which
appeares
most
cleare
.
3
Concerning
Forms
of
blessing
,
baptizing
,
singing
Scripture
Psalmes
,
there
is
a
far
differing
reason
from
this
case
,
for
the
Lord
himselfe
hath
left
us
Formes
in
these
cases
,
not
onely
for
instruction
,
but
allowing
the
use
of
the
same
,
as
Numb.
6.
23
,
&c.
Luke
10.
5.
Matth.
28.
20.
2
Chron.
29.
30.
and
therefore
such
may
bee
used
as
hee
hath
left
;
yet
the
Lord
hath
not
imposed
(
some
of
these
at
least
)
to
bee
used
alwayes
and
onely
in
his
Churches
,
much
lesse
doth
hee
allow
any
man
to
impose
their
own
Forms
upon
his
Churches
,
or
conforme
to
such
as
are
tyrannously
imposed
.
Reply
.
Third
Advert
.
We
have
not
called
you
at
this
time
to
witnesse
for
,
or
against
the
corruptions
of
the
Common-prayer-book
,
this
you
fall
upon
by
straining
the
sense
of
our
demands
.
Answ.
Wee
have
spoken
to
this
before
,
and
we
thinke
whatsoever
your
intent
and
desire
was
,
yet
the
nature
of
the
thing
,
and
the
case
it selfe
gave
us
a
just
call
to
testifie
against
it
,
especially
seeing
the
corruptions
then
increased
in
England
,
and
the
impositions
were
more
rigid
and
violent
.
Reply
.
The
reasons
you
bring
against
the
Communion-booke
,
wee
cannot
approve
them
all
;
the
exceptions
against
it
wee
know
,
but
to
esteem
the
whole
for
some
corruptions
found
therein
a
Monument
of
Idolatry
,
that
we
have
not
learned
.
Answ.
The
Answer
calls
it
not
a
Monument
of
Idolatry
for
some
corruptions
onely
found
in
it
,
though
the
corruptions
in
matter
and
manner
,
bee
objected
as
the
first
reason
why
wee
used
it
not
;
but
being
never
commanded
of
God
,
greatly
abused
unto
Idolatry
and
superstition
,
and
o●
no
necessary
use
,
the
same
that
was
in
Popery
for
substance
,
which
are
the
usuall
arguments
for
abolishing
Images
,
Ceremonies
,
and
all
Monuments
of
Idolatry
;
and
wee
marvaile
how
any
could
passe
over
these
things
in
the
Answer
which
might
evince
it
to
bee
a
Monument
of
Idolatry
,
as
the
argument
of
the
Abridgement
to
which
we
referred
,
doth
prove
.
Reply
.
The
argument
in
the
Abridgement
used
against
conformity
to
the
Ceremonies
,
did
not
in
the
judgement
of
the
Authors
bold
against
the
Liturgie
,
of
which
judgement
we
are
.
Answ.
It
matters
not
whether
they
saw
so
far
,
and
so
judged
,
if
indeed
the
reason
and
nature
of
Ceremonies
,
and
the
book
be
the
same
;
for
the
first
Reformers
thought
their
arguments
strong
against
oyle
,
creame
,
and
spittle
,
&c.
in
Baptisme
,
but
saw
not
that
they
would
hold
against
the
Crosse
,
Surplice
,
&c.
as
well
;
yet
we
doubt
not
but
the
Reverend
Author
did
judge
of
all
in
the
same
manner
;
and
so
it
is
in
this
case
.
Reply
.
Advert
.
4.
If
these
reasons
bee
intended
onely
to
shew
why
you
receive
not
our
forme
of
administration
,
it
is
that
which
wee
are
perswaded
you
know
we
never
required
of
you
,
if
to
disallow
the
use
of
the
Book
amongst
us
altogether
in
things
lawfull
,
good
,
and
pertinent
,
they
will
not
hold
weight
.
Answ.
1
Wee
were
told
in
the
first
Epistle
of
our
Reverend
and
deare
Brethren
,
that
whiles
wee
lived
in
England
,
wee
joyned
in
the
same
Ordinances
and
purity
of
worship
,
and
therefore
wee
might
have
some
just
cause
to
cleare
up
our
differing
practise
from
disusing
that
forme
of
Administration
there
,
considering
that
our
differing
practise
might
occasion
others
to
rend
off
from
your
Administrations
there
,
whereof
you
complain
.
2
We
doubt
not
but
in
the
Popish
Forms
of
Masse
,
Matten
,
and
Evensong
,
&c.
some
things
lawfull
,
good
,
and
pertinent
may
bee
found
,
yet
would
not
the
godly
allow
these
very
reasons
wee
alledge
in
the
Answer
sufficient
to
refuse
the
whole
Forme
,
and
so
those
good
and
lawfull
things
in
that
Forme
?
as
that
they
are
devised
by
men
,
without
the
command
of
God
,
imposed
by
an
Antichristian
power
,
abused
to
Idolatry
and
Superstition
,
wherein
the
people
place
much
holinesse
,
and
necessity
,
full
of
scandall
,
&c.
and
if
these
Reasons
do
not
hold
against
this
Forme
in
the
Communion
booke
,
the
Reply
should
have
acquited
it
from
them
:
or
else
the
consequence
must
bee
yeelded
in
this
case
,
as
in
the
other
,
notwithstanding
all
the
good
and
pertinent
things
therein
.
John
Sim●son
,
and
John
Ardly
Martyrs
in
Q.
Maries
dayes
,
and
faithfull
Witnesses
,
made
answer
to
the
sixt
article
of
Bonner
,
concerning
the
Masse
,
that
't
is
of
the
Pope
,
not
of
Christ
,
and
therefore
not
good
,
not
having
in
it
any
goodnesse
,
saving
Gloria
in
excelsis
,
the
Epistles
and
Gospels
,
the
Creed
and
Pater
Noster
;
and
for
this
cause
(
they
said
)
they
have
not
,
nor
will
not
come
to
heare
Masse
:
the
same
answer
was
made
by
six
more
in
those
dayes
,
mentioned
by
Mr.
Fox
.
If
therefore
corrupt
Formes
may
bee
used
because
of
some
things
good
and
lawfull
mixt
with
them
,
there
should
have
been
shewn
us
some
proofe
for
it
,
but
if
the
meaning
bee
,
that
there
may
bee
a
lawfull
use
of
those
things
which
are
lawfull
and
good
in
it
:
wee
say
so
too
,
(
due
circumstances
of
their
use
being
observed
)
but
then
wee
fall
off
from
the
question
between
us
;
otherwise
wee
know
that
things
lawfull
and
good
in
themselves
,
yet
(
not
duly
circumstantiated
)
may
be
evill
and
scandalous
in
their
use
.
Heare
what
Paul
saith
,
it
was
lawfull
for
Paul
to
eate
some
kindes
of
meat
,
yet
if
it
maketh
my
brother
offend
,
I
will
eate
no
flesh
whiles
the
world
standeth
,
1
Cor.
8.
13.
Heare
what
the
Authors
of
the
second
admonition
to
the
Parliament
say
,
in
Queen
Elizabeths
dayes
,
the
Booke
of
Common-prayer
,
which
of
all
others
must
not
bee
touched
,
because
they
have
gotten
the
State
to
beare
it
out
,
yet
hee
hath
but
a
bad
conscience
,
that
in
this
time
will
hold
his
peace
,
and
not
speake
it
for
feare
of
trouble
;
knowing
that
there
are
such
intolerable
abuses
in
it
:
if
there
were
never
an
ill
word
or
sentence
in
all
the
Prayers
,
yet
to
appoint
it
to
bee
used
,
or
to
use
it
,
as
the
Papists
did
their
Mattens
and
Evensong
,
as
a
fit
service
to
God
,
though
the
words
bee
good
,
yet
the
use
is
naught
.
But
if
this
seem
too
sharpe
,
heare
what
—
a
late
godly
and
learned
G.
Apol.
cap.
7.
Q.
2.
Writer
speakes
,
Rejicimus
ill
as
precum
,
cultusque
publici
formulas
,
quae
tyrannide
quâdam
,
conscientiis
hominum
,
ut
●ultus
divini
partes
essentiales
impo●●ntur
;
quamvis
quoad
materiam
sunt
legitime
dispositae
,
quoad
formam
&
modum
tamen
quo
inducuntur
,
illegitima
crudelit●tis
instrumenta
fiunt
,
&
praetextus
improbae
malitiae
&
occasiones
violentae
tyrannidis
in
dignissimos
&
optimos
Ecclesiae
filios
.
Reply
.
Advert
.
5.
You
are
generally
(
you
say
)
loath
to
meddle
with
the
affaires
of
other
Churches
,
unlesse
necessarily
called
thereunto
:
but
when
some
upon
request
(
as
we
suppose
)
of
private
friends
,
and
others
out
of
their
zeal
and
forwardnesse
have
laboured
to
draw
many
to
separate
from
the
sacrament
,
because
ministred
in
a
stinted
Liturgie
,
wee
cannot
apprehend
any
just
ground
of
this
Apologie
;
the
rent
is
wide
,
and
some
brethren
bad
their
hands
deep
therein
,
which
made
u●
crave
your
judgements
and
the
reasons
thereof
,
to
make
up
the
breach
.
Answ.
1
What
you
impute
to
some
,
if
justly
,
wee
grant
will
not
allow
this
apologie
to
bee
generall
for
all
;
but
how
many
that
some
is
,
or
who
we
know
not
,
it
may
bee
one
or
two
;
and
if
so
,
one
or
two
exceptions
will
not
much
infringe
a
generall
rule
,
nor
hinder
this
generall
apology
.
2
If
such
brethren
had
a
necessary
Call
to
speake
or
write
what
they
did
,
it
hindreth
not
our
apologie
at
all
:
the
desire
of
private
friends
,
which
you
onely
suppose
the
moving
cause
,
might
bee
very
weighty
,
the
satisfying
of
tender
consciences
of
neare
friends
,
or
such
as
once
depended
upon
our
Ministery
,
in
such
a
time
of
pressing
humane
inventions
upon
men
,
as
that
was
;
might
bee
a
very
urgent
call
to
interpose
:
but
that
any
have
endeavoured
out
of
zeale
to
draw
many
to
separation
from
the
Sacrament
,
upon
such
a
ground
as
you
say
;
as
we
utterly
dislike
such
fire
upon
the
top
of
the
house
,
so
it
must
be
proved
,
before
we
can
call
to
minde
or
acknowledge
any
such
thing
.
Reply
.
Advert
.
6.
J.
D.
object
to
Mr.
P.
that
his
manner
of
preaching
(
proceeding
it
should
be
)
was
disorderly
,
in
carrying
to
the
Classis
a
matter
,
before
hee
had
declared
it
to
the
Church
,
&c.
and
may
not
we
with
like
reason
object
that
this
manner
of
proceeding
is
disorderly
,
in
seeking
to
draw
men
to
separation
,
because
of
a
stinted
Liturgie
,
before
you
had
shewed
us
or
other
Brethren
,
whom
it
may
concren
,
by
Scripture
,
or
reasons
that
a
stinted
Liturgie
is
unlawfull
?
Answ.
What
J.
D.
objects
,
wee
cannot
tell
,
seeing
you
neither
quote
the
place
,
nor
the
Printer
give
us
his
words
in
any
way
to
make
sense
;
but
so
far
as
we
guesse
at
the
meaning
,
the
case
is
very
wide
from
this
in
hand
.
J.
D.
might
justly
complaine
of
wrong
offered
to
him
and
the
Church
,
in
neglecting
them
,
to
goe
immediately
to
the
Classis
,
and
yet
some
of
our
Brethren
,
at
the
requests
of
tender
consciences
,
might
declare
their
judgement
,
when
no
rule
called
them
to
write
to
their
Pastors
,
which
perhaps
,
were
bitter
persecutors
,
or
if
better
,
yet
such
as
they
had
no
knowledge
of
;
and
if
any
by
such
writings
did
abstaine
from
the
sacrament
for
such
corruptions
,
as
their
consciences
would
be
defiled
with
,
no
hinderance
from
us
was
in
the
way
,
but
that
you
might
call
them
to
account
before
the
Church
,
and
convince
and
censure
them
,
if
there
were
just
cause
;
which
was
the
objection
against
Mr.
P.
in
flying
presently
to
the
Classis
.
CHAP.
III.
2
Position
.
That
it
is
not
lawfull
to
joyne
in
Prayer
,
or
receive
the
Sacraments
,
where
a
stinted
Liturgie
is
used
:
Or
,
as
wee
conceive
your
meaning
to
bee
in
this
as
in
the
former
,
&c.
viz.
where
and
when
that
stinted
Liturgie
is
used
.
Reply
.
IF
we
mistake
not
your
judgement
and
practise
both
,
you
have
born
witnesse
against
both
that
you
call
the
rigid
separation
,
and
this
more
moderate
also
;
and
wee
humbly
wish
that
the
moderate
doe
not
degenerate
into
the
rigid
ere
long
;
it
is
very
strange
if
they
take
not
great
encouragement
upon
your
grounds
.
Answ.
If
you
will
needs
account
not
joyning
in
that
stinted
imposed
Liturgy
,
to
bee
a
moderate
separation
,
wee
must
confesse
,
we
have
witnessed
against
such
separation
;
yea
,
not
onely
conformed
to
that
corrupt
Worship
,
but
also
to
divers
of
the
Ceremonies
thereof
,
some
of
us
with
shame
before
the
Lord
may
confesse
it
:
But
we
desire
that
may
be
no
prejudice
to
the
truth
since
discovered
to
us
:
but
wee
have
ever
conceived
,
that
the
separation
witnessed
against
,
both
by
your selves
and
us
,
have
been
such
as
to
separate
from
the
Churches
of
England
as
no
true
Churches
,
the
Ministery
,
as
no
true
Ministery
:
their
separations
from
corruptions
in
Doctrine
and
Worship
,
their
endeavour
to
enjoy
all
the
ordinances
of
the
Lord
Jesus
in
purity
,
if
wee
bee
not
mistaken
,
your
judgement
and
practise
with
ours
,
have
alwayes
approved
;
and
the
question
now
in
hand
is
not
about
a
new
kinde
of
separation
more
moderate
,
from
the
Churches
and
Ministery
of
England
;
but
whether
the
Liturgy
of
England
be
not
indeed
one
of
those
corruptions
in
Worship
,
which
you
and
wee
had
need
reject
,
as
well
as
the
ceremonies
,
and
no
longer
conforme
to
the
same
.
And
wee
heartily
wish
that
the
growing
endeavours
of
the
godly
,
after
more
purity
of
Worship
,
and
to
bee
purged
from
all
the
pollutions
of
the
man
of
sinne
,
bee
not
too
rashly
branded
with
the
odium
of
separation
:
and
breach
of
peace
and
unity
of
the
Church
.
As
for
degenerating
into
the
rigid
separation
,
wee
think
you
need
not
feare
it
,
upon
our
principles
,
no
more
then
upon
the
common
grounds
of
Non-conformists
,
and
you
know
what
they
inferre
upon
those
principles
,
now
justly
it
concernes
you
to
consider
,
as
well
as
us
;
but
as
it
is
truly
observed
in
England
,
it
was
the
justification
and
pressing
of
ceremonies
and
other
corruptions
,
that
drave
many
to
separation
,
not
the
endeavour
of
further
Reformation
;
so
you
may
feare
,
the
too
too
much
conformity
of
Ministers
to
humane
impositions
,
and
justification
of
the
Liturgie
,
&c.
have
and
will
more
dangerously
alienate
godly
minds
from
your
Churches
and
Ministery
,
and
so
drive
to
separation
;
then
all
the
principles
and
progresse
of
the
godly
in
wayes
of
reformations
:
and
wee
shall
refer
it
to
the
judicious
and
common
experience
,
whether
the
discovery
of
the
corrupt
worship
in
the
Liturgy
,
or
contrary
conformity
to
it
,
be
the
greater
block
of
offence
,
and
strengthens
the
hands
of
the
Separatists
most
,
which
yet
you
after
object
unto
us
.
Wee
suppose
the
Worthies
of
this
renowned
Parliament
,
together
with
those
of
the
reverend
Assembly
,
would
not
so
soone
have
removed
the
whole
frame
and
fabrick
of
this
Book
,
nor
wholly
stopped
up
this
pit
,
if
building
of
battlements
about
it
,
and
keeping
watchmen
neare
it
,
to
bid
passengers
take
heed
,
had
been
the
readiest
way
to
cure
separation
:
nor
doe
wee
thinke
that
this
reverend
man
of
God
,
would
have
been
in
more
jealousie
and
feare
of
us
(
if
hee
had
considered
how
tenderly
we
returned
our
answer
to
the
question
)
then
of
those
faithfull
witnesses
in
Scotland
,
who
separated
their
lives
into
the
hands
of
death
,
rather
then
communicate
in
the
use
of
this
Booke
;
and
yet
wee
thinke
they
deserve
a
better
place
,
then
to
bee
ranked
so
neare
to
the
rigid
separation
;
notwithstanding
for
our selves
we
are
heartily
thankfull
for
what
he
humbly
wisheth
,
and
for
his
jealousie
over
us
so
farre
as
it
is
godly
;
but
so
farre
as
such
wishes
cast
a
cloud
of
evill
suspition
over
us
in
the
hearts
of
others
,
as
if
we
were
going
faster
then
we
knew
where
to
stay
,
we
wish
humbly
such
words
had
been
spared
till
some
other
time
.
Concerning
this
distinction
,
a
letter
of
this
subject
is
cited
,
printed
without
the
Authors
knowledge
,
that
put
a
difference
indeed
between
the
reasons
of
the
Separatists
proper
to
them
qua
tales
,
and
other
reasons
used
by
himself
,
common
to
others
studious
of
Reformation
.
To
which
we
answer
.
1
That
letter
acknowledgeth
no
such
distinction
of
separation
,
rigid
,
and
moderate
,
onely
(
if
you
will
)
a
separation
from
Churches
,
and
separation
from
the
sins
and
corruptions
of
Churches
,
which
latter
is
all
we
professe
.
2
Those
Reasons
which
the
letter
ascribes
to
them
,
qua
tales
,
will
wee
suppose
bee
found
in
their
Books
thus
farre
,
that
the
Prayers
,
Preachings
,
Sacraments
,
&c.
are
unlawfull
,
because
offered
in
a
false
Church
by
a
false
Ministery
for
the
subjects
of
Antichrists
kingdome
.
That
there
should
be
no
Separatists
in
the
world
,
because
none
,
it
is
said
none
,
pl●ad
against
the
Booke
of
Common-prayer
as
unlawfull
,
because
offered
up
in
a
false
Church
;
is
strange
to
us
,
that
this
learned
Author
should
not
read
or
observe
the
same
,
exceeding
frequently
in
the
Separatists
writings
;
take
but
a
taste
in
the
first
pages
of
Mr.
Smith
against
Bernard
in
his
parallels
,
censures
,
and
observations
,
his
words
pag.
9.
are
these
,
Hee
would
prove
that
an
erroneous
constitution
of
a
Church
,
is
a
reall
Idol
;
and
the
prayers
they
offer
with
the
prayers
of
the
wicked
,
comming
from
that
false
constitution
,
are
tainted
with
the
Idolatry
of
that
constitution
.
And
pag.
10.
It
is
Idolatry
to
offer
up
service
to
God
in
a
Church
of
a
false
constitution
.
And
pag.
13.
Tell
mee
Mr.
Bernard
,
can
there
be
a
true
Ministery
,
true
baptisme
,
true
faith
,
true
prayer
,
true
preaching
and
administring
the
supper
,
true
excommunication
,
in
a
Church
which
is
falsly
constituted
?
Did
the
Lord
accept
the
sacrifice
of
the
Church
constituted
by
Jeroboam
?
so
page
14.
A
Church
falsly
constituted
,
is
not
accepted
of
God
,
neither
are
their
actions
ecclesiasticall
,
as
prayer
,
preaching
,
&c.
acceptable
in
the
sight
of
God
.
And
againe
,
a
false
Ministery
,
Worship
,
government
,
may
bee
in
a
true
Church
,
through
ignorance
,
and
the
like
:
but
a
true
Ministery
,
worship
,
government
cannot
possibly
bee
in
a
false
Church
.
We
thinke
it
needlesse
to
recite
more
testimonies
;
Aliquando
bonus
dormitat
Homerus
,
A
good
memory
may
sometimes
fall
asleep
,
and
not
see
that
,
which
is
sometimes
most
obvious
and
visible
.
But
what
other
arguments
they
have
,
are
,
or
may
bee
common
to
others
studious
of
Reformation
,
as
their
arguments
against
ceremonies
are
common
with
Non-conformists
,
and
therefore
if
some
of
our
grounds
bee
found
in
them
,
it
doth
not
follow
,
they
are
shafts
taken
out
of
the
same
quiver
,
and
peculiar
to
them
,
as
you
object
.
Reply
.
Th●se
reasons
shall
be
common
to
all
,
that
plead
for
the
purity
of
Gods
Ordinances
,
which
were
never
taken
to
bee
sound
and
true
,
either
by
the
Reformed
Churches
abroad
,
or
by
the
godly
Brethren
at
home
,
dead
or
living
,
or
yet
by
the
most
of
the
Brethren
amongst
whom
they
live
,
and
hold
society
,
or
by
any
Minister
and
society
holding
the
unity
of
the
Spirit
in
the
bond
of
peace
,
these
1400.
years
and
upward
,
unlesse
within
these
few
dayes
,
and
that
by
a
few
onely
.
Answ.
Here
is
a
great
colour
of
Novelty
and
singularity
objected
to
be
in
the
grounds
and
reasons
of
the
Letter
,
used
against
conformity
to
the
Liturgy
:
but
it
is
easie
to
conceive
that
the
same
common
grounds
of
all
Reformers
,
may
be
justly
carryed
on
against
such
further
corruptions
,
as
they
never
saw
:
not
attending
their
owne
principles
in
such
particulars
,
as
was
said
before
of
the
first
Reformers
,
that
purged
out
salt
,
creame
,
oyle
,
&c.
not
the
crosse
,
&c.
and
so
here
it
may
fall
out
,
that
as
the
Lord
is
pleased
to
let
in
more
light
in
this
or
that
particular
corruption
;
so
upon
common
grounds
it
is
rejected
,
though
yet
but
one
or
few
apply
those
grounds
to
such
a
particular
case
.
Neither
here
was
the
number
so
few
as
is
pretended
,
when
this
Reply
was
drawn
up
,
or
else
at
least
,
it
is
much
increased
of
late
time
,
since
the
Assembly
and
Parliament
in
England
have
so
openly
in
their
Directory
witnessed
against
such
stinted
Formes
,
and
generally
the
Churches
of
Scotland
renounced
that
Liturgy
of
yours
,
as
a
piece
of
Popery
.
Besides
all
the
Orthodox
Churches
in
New-England
,
and
Holland
,
and
many
godly
in
England
.
Reply
.
As
yet
wee
thinke
most
of
them
,
that
have
separated
are
not
so
farre
gone
,
as
to
condemne
all
our
Assemblies
as
no
Churches
of
Christ
.
Answ.
By
this
you
seeme
to
insinuate
,
that
notwithstanding
our
acknowledgement
of
your
Churches
and
Ministery
,
wee
may
justly
bee
accounted
amongst
those
wee
properly
call
Separatists
:
but
it
is
but
your
thought
of
most
of
them
,
without
ground
,
contrary
to
their
generall
profession
in
their
publique
confessions
and
apologies
.
And
therefore
we
see
no
reason
of
it
,
or
that
it
toucheth
us
;
but
passing
these
generalls
,
let
us
come
to
the
matter
more
particularly
.
Reply
.
Your
judgement
concerning
the
Position
,
you
deliver
in
three
Propositions
(
for
so
many
they
bee
for
substance
)
in
respect
of
the
persons
reading
the
Liturgie
,
or
the
thing
it selfe
that
is
read
;
as
if
any
part
of
the
Liturgie
be
read
(
put
case
some
few
select
prayers
onely
)
by
an
unable
and
ungodly
Minister
,
it
is
unlawfull
(
say
you
)
for
the
people
to
joyne
in
that
case
.
But
if
unlawfull
for
the
people
to
joyne
,
when
an
ungodly
Minister
readeth
some
few
select
prayers
,
it
is
either
in
respect
of
the
Minister
,
or
the
prayers
themselves
;
not
of
the
Prayers
themselves
,
for
they
be
select
and
choyce
,
faultlesse
,
in
respect
of
matter
and
manner
,
as
is
taken
for
granted
,
unlesse
this
distribution
bee
to
no
purpose
;
if
in
respect
of
the
Minister
,
then
it
is
not
lawfull
to
joyne
with
such
an
one
,
in
any
ordinance
of
God
whatsoever
.
In
that
you
analyse
our
two
Propositions
into
three
,
we
shall
not
contend
,
but
follow
your
method
,
yet
wee
cannot
but
marvaile
at
the
liberty
that
is
taken
in
stating
the
first
Proposition
,
both
leaving
out
and
adding
such
things
as
will
not
stand
with
the
termes
in
our
Answer
;
and
indeed
this
is
too
frequent
in
divers
places
of
this
Reply
,
which
gives
a
great
colour
of
strength
unto
the
arguments
;
but
when
they
come
to
be
scanned
,
it
will
discover
the
impertinency
of
them
.
For
,
1
Although
the
Answer
distinguisheth
of
the
Liturgie
,
either
of
the
whole
,
or
of
some
select
prayers
which
may
bee
conceived
to
bee
lesse
offensive
,
yet
the
application
of
this
of
select
prayers
,
is
onely
made
in
the
second
proposition
of
the
Answer
,
no
way
intended
in
the
first
.
Neither
doth
the
Answer
confesse
those
prayers
,
as
you
say
,
to
bee
choyce
and
faultlesse
for
matter
and
manner
,
but
which
may
bee
conceived
lesse
offensive
.
2
Whereas
the
Proposition
is
of
an
unable
and
ungodly
Minister
,
such
unlearned
Idol-Priests
that
are
countenanced
and
established
by
the
Liturgie
,
and
can
doe
no
more
then
read
the
same
,
to
the
unspeakable
hazard
and
ruine
of
a
multitude
of
soules
;
you
carry
along
your
arguments
onely
in
the
terme
of
an
ungodly
Minister
,
which
leaves
out
one
chiefe
ground
of
our
proposition
,
viz.
unable
.
To
reduce
therefore
this
proposition
unto
its
true
state
which
the
answer
puts
it
in
,
which
is
thus
,
If
the
question
bee
of
joyning
in
prayer
with
,
and
when
that
whole
Liturgie
is
read
,
or
where
that
which
is
used
,
(
viz.
though
not
the
whole
)
is
read
by
an
unable
and
ungodly
Minister
:
wee
see
not
how
it
can
bee
lawfull
to
joyne
,
&c.
where
that
which
is
read
by
an
unable
and
ungodly
Minister
,
cannot
have
reference
to
the
select
prayers
,
but
onely
was
put
in
,
to
reach
the
whole
case
,
lest
any
should
say
,
may
we
not
joyne
,
therefore
if
they
read
not
all
,
(
as
sometimes
such
doe
not
,
for
haste
to
the
Alehouse
,
Beare-baitings
,
&c.
)
And
the
case
is
so
well
known
to
our selves
and
others
,
what
the
manner
of
such
Priests
is
,
how
farre
they
are
from
making
any
choyce
of
select
prayers
:
or
having
any
skill
indeed
so
to
doe
;
that
if
any
bee
more
superstitious
then
others
,
they
would
soonest
choose
them
;
so
that
it
was
farre
from
our
thoughts
to
impute
it
to
them
,
to
read
the
select
prayers
onely
.
The
question
being
rightly
stated
,
the
argument
will
halt
very
much
;
For
wee
say
,
it
is
unlawfull
in
both
respects
,
and
the
rather
,
when
jointly
considered
;
and
therefore
you
should
first
have
justified
the
whole
Liturgy
,
or
so
much
as
such
Idol-Priests
use
to
read
to
bee
lawfull
,
and
also
the
standing
and
calling
of
those
men
,
before
the
argument
can
hold
,
both
which
you
have
wholly
left
naked
without
proofe
,
and
argue
onely
about
the
lawfulnesse
of
joyning
with
an
ungodly
Minister
in
the
Ordinances
of
God
,
which
will
not
reach
this
case
.
If
one
should
affirme
it
is
unlawfull
to
goe
to
Mattens
or
Evensong
,
when
the
whole
is
read
,
or
that
which
is
read
,
is
done
by
a
popish
Priest
,
and
you
should
answer
then
,
it
is
either
because
of
the
Prayers
or
the
Priest
.
Not
the
first
;
for
the
prayers
(
if
select
)
may
bee
good
,
and
faultlesse
,
and
not
because
of
the
Priest
,
for
then
wee
may
never
joyne
with
an
ungodly
Minister
in
the
Ordinances
of
God
:
The
answer
would
bee
very
imperfect
and
impertinent
,
and
just
so
it
is
here
in
the
frame
of
the
reason
,
though
the
corruptions
in
that
service
and
this
be
not
alike
we
grant
.
But
before
wee
answer
to
the
second
part
of
your
dis-junction
,
let
us
consider
a
little
here
once
for
all
,
the
act
of
the
people
in
joyning
with
the
reading
of
this
Liturgy
,
or
so
much
of
it
,
as
is
read
usually
by
such
Idol-priests
.
First
,
concerning
the
Liturgy
it selfe
,
if
you
respect
the
matter
and
forme
,
or
manner
of
it
,
it
would
bee
too
tedious
to
rip
up
,
what
for
matter
hath
been
objected
by
the
godly
Reformers
.
Consider
but
two
things
objected
strongly
by
Mr.
Cartwright
against
the
forme
or
manner
of
it
.
First
,
that
it
is
taken
out
of
the
Popish
Masse-book
,
concerning
which
hee
affirmeth
,
that
although
there
were
nothing
in
it
unlawfull
,
or
against
the
Word
of
God
,
(
which
saith
hee
)
I
wish
there
were
not
,
yet
no
Word
of
God
,
no
reason
,
nor
example
of
the
Ancient
Churches
,
Jewish
or
Christian
,
will
permit
us
to
use
the
same
formes
and
ceremonies
(
viz.
with
Papists
)
being
neither
commanded
of
God
,
nor
such
as
there
may
not
bee
as
good
as
they
,
and
rather
better
established
,
yea
considering
how
neare
the
Papists
live
amongst
us
,
it
were
more
safe
to
conforme
to
the
Ceremonies
of
the
Turks
that
are
farre
off
.
And
this
hee
speaketh
of
the
forme
of
Liturgy
,
as
well
as
Ceremonies
,
Cartw.
reply
to
Whitgifts
answer
to
the
admonition
to
the
Parliament
,
pag.
131
,
132.
And
although
you
seeme
to
make
light
of
this
objection
,
after
page
15.
end
,
yet
in
a
like
case
,
when
Whitgift
had
said
,
it
is
not
materiall
that
Deanes
,
Canons
came
from
the
Pope
;
Cartwright
replyeth
thus
;
It
is
as
if
hee
had
said
,
it
skilleth
not
,
if
they
came
out
of
the
bottomlesse
pit
;
for
whatsoever
commeth
from
the
Pope
,
who
is
Antichrist
,
comes
first
from
the
Devill
,
Cartw.
Reply
,
pag.
204.
Secondly
,
hee
objecteth
that
absurd
manner
of
chopping
and
interrupting
the
prayers
,
of
which
Mr.
Cartwright
saith
,
That
if
any
man
should
make
such
a
supplication
to
a
Prince
,
he
would
thinke
him
to
make
his
supplication
before
hee
knew
what
to
ask
,
or
that
hee
had
forgotten
some
piece
of
his
suit
;
or
that
he
were
Ibid.
p.
138.
distracted
in
his
understanding
.
Much
more
might
bee
added
,
but
wee
have
onely
touched
this
sore
,
and
in
the
words
of
that
learned
and
zealous
Reformer
,
that
it
may
appeare
,
neither
the
opinion
of
that
Booke
,
nor
the
reasons
against
it
,
are
so
new
or
proper
to
the
Separatists
,
as
is
pretended
.
Now
what
comfort
can
anygodly
conscience
have
to
joyn
in
,
or
conform
unto
such
a
form
of
Worship
as
this
is
?
Further
consider
the
administration
of
the
Sacraments
,
according
to
the
Book
(
as
we
speak
still
of
joyning
in
it
)
who
knows
not
,
that
such
must
subject
their
children
to
that
grosse
Idol
of
the
crosse
,
and
see
and
approve
the
pollution
of
Gods
Ordinances
with
the
same
:
and
at
the
Lords
table
joyne
in
that
Idolatrous
gesture
of
kneeling
;
and
therefore
how
the
godly
can
joyn
lawfully
in
the
whole
,
or
such
parts
as
those
Idol-priests
dispense
,
let
all
Non-conformists
judge
;
and
it
is
well
knowne
,
how
superstitiously
precise
such
are
,
in
pressing
all
conformity
to
every
gesture
and
ceremony
prescribed
in
their
Booke
,
which
they
so
idolize
,
as
they
have
good
cause
,
being
that
which
maintaines
them
.
Secondly
,
if
wee
consider
the
imposition
hereof
by
the
Prelates
and
late
strict
pressing
thereof
upon
the
people
to
be
present
and
conforme
fully
to
it
,
as
well
as
upon
Ministers
to
use
it
.
The
very
yeelding
of
conformity
thereto
,
doth
miserably
cast
away
the
liberty
purchased
by
Christ
to
his
Churches
,
inthrall
the
Churches
to
Antichrist
,
and
lift
up
the
power
of
Antichrist
in
his
tyrannous
usurpations
upon
the
Churches
of
Christ
.
Thirdly
,
we
might
adde
the
dangerous
consequences
and
scandals
that
follow
from
admitting
this
Liturgy
,
which
being
touched
in
our
answer
to
the
first
Position
,
we
here
passe
over
.
These
things
considered
,
it
appeares
,
not
onely
that
there
was
need
to
disprove
the
first
part
of
your
disjunction
,
which
you
declined
in
stating
the
question
;
but
also
the
truth
of
the
Position
it selfe
is
confirmed
.
Now
let
us
consider
your
proof
of
the
second
part
of
your
disjunction
;
which
is
thus
,
Reply
.
If
in
respect
of
the
Minister
,
then
it
is
not
lawfull
to
joyn
with
such
an
one
in
any
Ordinanee
of
God
.
For
if
the
Minister
make
it
unlawfull
,
then
all
communion
in
any
part
of
Gods
Worship
with
such
Ministers
is
unlawfull
:
and
so
the
Churches
in
all
ages
of
the
world
,
the
Prophets
,
our
Saviour
Christ
,
the
Apostles
,
and
the
faithfull
in
the
Primitive
Church
,
sinned
in
holding
communion
with
such
,
when
the
Priests
were
dumbe
dogs
,
&c.
but
we
never
read
that
the
Prophets
,
our
Saviour
Christ
,
the
Apostles
did
ever
forbeare
themselves
,
or
warne
the
faithfull
not
to
communicate
with
such
in
the
ordinances
of
Worship
.
Our
Saviour
charged
the
Disciples
to
beware
of
the
leaven
of
the
Scribes
and
Pharisees
,
but
never
forbad
them
to
communicate
with
them
in
the
ordinances
of
God
.
Answ.
To
this
we
answer
;
First
,
that
if
you
speake
to
the
case
in
hand
of
those
unable
and
ungodly
Ministers
of
England
,
Readers
(
as
they
are
called
)
of
the
Common-service
,
wee
grant
it
is
not
lawfull
to
communicate
in
a
stated
way
with
them
,
in
any
ordinance
of
Worship
properly
Ministeriall
;
in
any
act
that
private
persons
may
performe
,
wee
may
communicate
with
them
,
but
not
in
Ministeriall
worke
,
as
Sacraments
;
for
although
being
imposed
on
any
Church
as
Ministers
,
and
so
received
by
them
,
their
Ministeriall
acts
are
not
a
nullity
;
yet
if
wee
speake
of
the
lawfulnesse
of
such
their
act
of
receiving
them
,
then
the
Church
sinneth
in
choosing
them
,
or
being
imposed
,
in
receiving
them
,
and
submitting
to
their
Ministery
,
being
such
as
are
utterly
contrary
to
the
rule
of
Christ
,
and
rejected
of
him
.
And
by
the
like
reason
the
godly
sinne
in
receiving
Sacraments
,
&c.
from
them
,
as
Ministers
of
Christ
,
knowing
they
intrude
into
that
office
,
and
have
no
authority
by
the
rule
of
Christ
so
to
doe
.
Wee
may
heare
a
private
gifted
Christian
prophecy
,
but
if
hee
intrude
without
a
lawfull
calling
into
the
Ministery
,
we
may
not
receive
him
,
nor
approve
of
him
therein
.
Cyprians
speech
is
commonly
noted
,
that
Plebs
maxime
habe●
potestatem
vel
eligendi
dignos
Sacerdotes
,
vel
indignos
recusandi
;
yet
the
occasion
of
it
is
not
so
generally
observed
,
which
is
this
,
Plebs
obsequens
praeceptis
Dominicis
,
Deum
metuens
,
à
peccatore
proposito
separare
se
debet
,
nec
se
ad
sacrilegia
sacerdotis
sacrificia
miscere
,
●um
ipse
maxime
habet
potestatem
eligendi
,
&c.
that
is
,
the
people
observing
divine
precepts
,
and
fearing
God
,
ought
to
separate
themselves
from
a
wicked
Minister
,
neither
joyne
themselves
to
the
sacrifices
of
a
sacrilegious
Priest
,
seeing
they
chiefly
have
power
of
choosing
worthy
Ministers
,
and
rejecting
unworthy
.
Secondly
,
wee
see
no
demonstrative
argument
that
the
Priests
and
Pharisees
were
wholly
unable
for
the
worke
of
those
times
,
as
these
wee
speake
of
are
for
—
:
though
the
Priests
,
Esay
56.
10.
were
dumb
dogs
that
cannot
barke
;
yet
it
seemes
by
the
place
to
be
meant
actually
,
rather
then
habitually
,
through
their
slumbering
or
security
there
mentioned
,
not
telling
the
people
of
their
sinnes
,
nor
warning
them
of
judgements
,
rather
then
of
their
totall
inability
.
Men
of
good
parts
and
able
gifts
may
be
actually
such
dumb
dogs
,
as
seldome
preach
,
or
never
to
purpose
,
and
bee
spiritually
ignorant
through
much
prophanenesse
,
yet
not
totally
deprived
of
common
gifts
:
It
is
most
evident
that
the
Pharisees
were
blinde
,
yet
taught
the
people
,
and
hence
the
Disciples
were
permitted
to
heare
them
;
but
what
is
this
to
the
question
,
which
is
of
unable
,
as
well
as
of
ungodly
Ministers
?
Thirdly
,
suppose
some
of
the
Priests
and
Levites
were
unable
,
Peter
Martyr
in
1
Kings
12.
verse
31.
yet
the
Ministery
of
the
Old
Testament
was
limitted
by
God
himselfe
to
the
tribe
of
Levi
,
and
that
by
succession
,
which
is
farre
otherwise
in
the
New
Testament
,
being
left
to
the
Churches
election
,
and
therefore
they
had
no
power
to
reject
them
,
o●
withdraw
from
them
,
when
they
had
ministred
the
ordinances
of
God
.
Fourthly
,
suppose
some
of
them
were
not
called
of
God
,
being
not
lineally
descended
of
that
tribe
,
yet
those
things
wherein
the
faithfull
,
Christ
and
his
Apostles
,
and
others
did
communicate
with
them
,
were
necessarily
commanded
of
God
,
viz.
sacrifices
,
offerings
,
&c.
in
the
Temple
,
which
seale
of
God
we
see
not
stamped
upon
this
Liturgy
in
question
,
to
make
it
currant
.
And
thus
Peter
Martyr
answereth
in
the
like
case
,
that
though
Pe●
.
Mart.
Com.
L●c
de
Idol
in
praec
.
l.
1.
there
were
many
pernicious
doctrines
taught
by
Scribes
,
Pharisees
and
wicked
Priests
,
yet
sacrificandi
ritus
,
&c.
the
rites
of
sacrificing
were
not
changed
;
for
the
same
oblations
were
offered
,
which
the
Law
commanded
,
and
therefore
the
Saints
might
use
them
,
having
the
word
of
God
conjoyned
with
them
.
Fifthly
,
what
you
grant
concerning
Christ
his
warning
his
Disciples
to
take
heed
of
the
leaven
of
the
Scribes
and
Pharisees
,
no
doubt
hee
did
the
like
,
concerning
the
corruptions
of
the
Priests
in
their
administrations
of
Gods
ordinances
,
and
wee
doubt
not
,
but
you
will
acknowledge
that
the
Prophets
and
Apostles
Iohn
2
,
15
,
16.
did
or
ought
to
abstaine
from
all
actuall
communion
with
those
corruptions
,
and
the
Lord
Jesus
out
of
question
did
abstaine
:
which
being
so
,
wee
may
retort
this
argument
thus
in
regard
of
conformitie
to
ceremonies
,
If
it
bee
not
lawfull
to
partake
in
the
Ordinances
of
God
,
where
wee
must
actually
joyne
with
such
ceremonies
,
then
Christ
,
the
Prophets
and
Apostles
must
not
have
joyned
in
any
ordinance
of
God
in
severall
ages
of
the
Church
,
when
worse
or
as
ill
corruptions
were
admixed
with
that
worship
:
But
they
never
refused
the
ordinances
of
worship
for
such
corruptions
;
Therefore
wee
should
not
now
for
these
ceremonies
abstaine
;
put
case
for
kneeling
at
the
Lords
Supper
,
&c.
If
you
please
to
solve
this
knot
,
the
same
answer
will
serve
our
turne
as
well
.
Reply
.
It
is
not
for
private
Christians
to
withdraw
themselves
from
the
ordinances
of
worship
,
and
communion
of
the
Church
,
because
such
are
permitted
to
deale
in
the
holy
things
of
God
,
whom
they
judge
or
know
unfit
;
when
men
joyne
in
the
worship
of
God
with
unworthy
Ministers
,
they
doe
not
countenance
them
,
their
place
and
office
,
but
obey
the
commandement
of
God
,
who
requires
their
attendance
upon
his
highnesse
in
that
way
and
meanes
.
Answ.
First
,
wee
grant
it
is
not
alwayes
for
private
Christians
so
to
leave
the
communion
of
a
Church
in
the
ordinances
of
God
,
for
such
a
reason
,
but
if
they
have
first
done
their
part
according
to
their
place
to
reforme
or
cast
out
such
an
unworthy
and
unable
ministry
,
and
cannot
,
or
see
no
hope
to
procure
one
sufficient
to
edifie
the
Church
,
hee
may
and
ought
to
betake
himselfe
to
some
other
Church
,
where
hee
may
bee
edified
,
and
it
is
a
great
mistake
to
thinke
,
(
in
the
constitution
of
the
Gospell
)
that
a
Christian
cannot
reject
all
fellowship
with
such
Idoll
Priests
,
but
hee
must
forsake
the
ordinances
of
Christ
,
or
rent
off
from
the
Church
,
when
indeed
hee
deprives
himselfe
of
many
ordinances
in
joyning
with
them
,
and
attaines
them
in
forsaking
of
them
.
Secondly
,
if
we
consider
wherein
the
outward
call
of
all
Church
Officers
in
the
New
Testament
lies
,
viz.
in
a
great
part
in
the
choice
of
the
Church
,
or
at
least
in
their
after
consent
and
receiving
of
them
,
being
chosen
by
others
for
them
,
Act.
1.
and
6.
and
14.
how
can
any
godly
man
receive
,
submit
unto
,
or
acknowledge
such
unable
wretches
by
receiving
Gods
ordinances
from
them
,
as
Ministers
,
but
they
must
needs
countenance
them
in
their
places
,
and
set
up
to
themselves
an
Idoll
or
meanes
of
worship
to
edifie
themselves
,
which
God
never
appointed
;
for
let
it
bee
proved
that
ever
God
appointed
readers
of
a
Liturgie
to
edifie
the
people
.
Answ.
Thirdly
,
but
that
to
joyne
in
worship
with
such
should
bee
to
obey
Gods
command
,
who
requires
attendance
upon
himselfe
in
that
way
and
meanes
,
wee
thinke
it
a
speech
not
so
throughly
digested
,
if
wee
carry
in
our
eye
the
case
now
in
hand
,
concerning
these
Idoll
Priests
and
Silver
shrines
.
For
where
can
they
shew
any
such
command
?
or
why
hath
it
been
suffered
by
any
of
our
Brethren
,
that
the
godly
living
under
such
Priests
,
have
been
so
frequently
absent
from
them
,
reading
the
liturgy
,
to
heare
their
Sermons
?
Nay
why
have
they
not
told
them
,
they
were
bound
to
attend
upon
God
in
hearing
their
Sir
John
read
at
home
?
Wee
appeale
to
all
consciences
,
whether
they
would
approve
of
any
godly
man
,
that
would
rest
in
such
meanes
,
and
not
call
him
to
leave
all
his
outward
conveniences
,
for
some
godly
able
Ministry
:
or
at
least
not
to
attend
on
them
,
but
get
where
they
may
bee
better
edified
.
Reply
.
To
goe
no
further
then
the
Text
you
quote
,
Hosea
4.
6
,
7.
Because
thou
hast
despised
knowledge
I
have
rejected
thee
;
properly
the
Text
speaketh
of
the
ten
Tribes
and
the
Priests
amongst
them
,
who
worshipped
the
Calves
,
&c.
whom
the
Lord
threatens
to
reject
;
but
neither
this
nor
any
other
Text
proves
,
that
people
joyning
in
worship
with
such
,
doe
countenance
them
in
their
places
.
Answ.
The
Text
proves
that
God
rejects
such
Priests
as
these
are
,
(
just
like
Jeroboams
Priests
of
the
meanest
of
the
people
)
and
that
was
all
it
was
alledged
for
,
and
that
receiving
such
as
Ministers
doth
countenance
them
in
their
places
,
was
proved
before
.
And
if
it
bee
meant
of
Jeroboams
Priests
,
as
you
say
,
the
approved
practise
of
the
godly
in
those
dayes
,
2
Chron.
11.
16.
will
well
justifie
and
lead
us
to
reject
and
leave
these
also
.
Secondly
,
there
seemes
to
bee
foure
arguments
,
why
the
people
should
withdraw
from
these
kind
of
Priests
:
First
,
in
regard
of
their
miserable
perishing
for
want
of
knowledge
by
their
meanes
.
Secondly
,
because
the
people
in
receiving
them
,
rejected
knowledge
,
as
Calvin
notes
upon
the
place
.
Thirdly
,
because
God
would
take
a
time
to
disburthen
the
Church
of
them
,
whence
Drusius
in
locum
wisheth
,
utinam
tales
bodie
à
ministerio
amoverentur
.
Fourthly
,
because
the
Lord
would
cast
off
their
children
from
being
his
,
for
this
sinne
,
as
Calvin
also
notes
upon
the
place
;
the
promise
of
shewing
mercy
to
a
1000.
generations
,
being
chiefly
annexed
to
the
observers
of
the
second
Command
,
and
the
instituted
meanes
of
worship
,
which
those
Priests
never
were
.
Reply
.
On
the
contrary
,
if
you
will
extend
this
Text
to
all
unworthy
Ministers
of
what
sort
soever
,
whom
the
Word
of
God
condemns
,
as
not
approved
Ministers
of
God
,
&c.
Answ.
Wee
intended
no
other
sorts
then
such
as
wee
have
in
hand
,
the
unable
and
ungodly
Idoll
Priests
of
England
,
and
therefore
this
discourse
concernes
us
not
.
For
wee
freely
confesse
,
that
it
is
lawfull
in
divers
cases
,
at
least
for
a
time
,
to
communicate
with
such
unworthy
Ministers
as
may
bee
contained
in
your
description
:
but
that
people
must
and
ought
to
joyne
with
such
in
the
worship
of
God
,
and
sinne
,
if
they
separate
from
the
ordinances
,
(
as
you
say
)
the
Scriptures
alledged
teach
not
this
so
evidently
,
that
wee
can
see
,
as
1
Sam.
2.
12
,
13.
17.
24.
that
imputation
,
Verse
24.
They
make
the
Lords
people
to
transgresse
,
doth
not
depend
immediatly
on
Verse
13
,
14.
17.
but
on
Verse
22.
23.
where
they
are
charged
to
have
layne
with
the
women
,
the
other
passages
being
interrupted
by
the
story
of
Samuel
and
his
Mother
,
Verse
18
,
19.
20
,
21.
So
Jer.
8.
8
,
9.
Micah
3.
11
,
12.
containe
onely
threats
against
wicked
Ministers
,
but
not
a
word
to
prove
people
ought
to
joyne
with
them
,
&c.
Phil.
1.
15.
speaking
of
such
as
preach
and
preach
Christ
,
though
not
of
sinceritie
,
doth
not
reach
such
Ministers
as
the
word
condemnes
:
for
many
such
may
be
approved
Ministers
by
the
Word
,
having
a
call
according
to
the
same
;
but
wee
shall
not
contend
in
this
case
,
wherein
wee
doe
not
dissent
,
so
that
Christians
bee
left
to
their
lawfull
libertie
of
withdrawing
from
Ministers
grossely
wicked
,
and
Teachers
of
false
Doctrin
,
or
idle
and
unsufficient
,
when
they
cannot
reclaime
them
,
or
remove
them
in
the
use
of
all
lawfull
meanes
within
their
power
.
Reply
.
The
reasons
whereby
the
ancient
Churches
condemned
the
Donatists
and
Catharists
for
their
voluntary
and
seditious
separations
,
and
the
moderne
Churches
condemne
the
Anabaptists
for
their
renting
from
the
body
of
Christ
,
will
hold
against
separation
from
the
Prayers
of
the
Congregation
,
because
they
are
read
by
an
ungodly
Minister
.
Wee
deny
that
wee
teach
or
hold
such
separation
,
because
read
by
an
ungodly
Minister
,
as
is
sufficiently
shewed
before
;
but
what
we
speak
is
against
conformitie
to
and
communion
with
the
corruptions
of
the
Liturgie
especially
used
by
an
unable
as
well
as
ungodly
Minister
,
and
therefore
the
arguments
mentioned
will
hold
against
our
proposition
,
just
as
the
accusations
and
imputations
of
Donatisme
,
Puritanisme
,
Anabaptisme
,
which
the
Prelates
cast
upon
all
Non-conformists
and
men
studious
of
reformation
,
will
hold
and
fasten
upon
them
,
which
is
nothing
at
all
.
Reply
.
The
second
Proposition
,
where
the
whole
Liturgie
is
used
though
by
an
able
and
godly
Minister
,
it
is
not
lawfull
to
joyne
in
prayer
in
that
case
;
Wee
cannot
bee
of
your
judgement
herein
,
for
in
the
times
of
the
Prophets
,
and
our
Saviour
Christ
as
great
abuses
no
question
were
found
,
&c.
but
they
never
taught
people
to
separate
from
the
holy
things
of
God
.
Answ.
First
,
wee
must
still
mind
the
Reader
of
the
true
and
full
state
of
the
question
,
which
in
our
answer
is
of
joyning
in
prayer
,
with
,
and
when
that
whole
Liturgy
is
used
,
and
hee
that
joynes
with
that
whole
Liturgie
must
needs
bee
supposed
to
have
actuall
communion
with
all
the
corruptions
thereof
what
ever
they
bee
,
and
therefore
though
this
Proposition
reach
to
the
practise
of
able
and
godly
Ministers
,
yet
let
none
thinke
wee
plead
herein
separation
from
their
ministery
,
but
onely
that
people
may
not
conforme
with
them
to
any
corruption
in
worship
,
and
by
this
proposition
also
the
Author
might
easily
have
seene
that
wee
denied
the
other
(
which
was
woven
in
with
this
)
not
because
of
the
ungodlinesse
of
the
Minister
alone
as
hee
carried
his
dispute
,
but
chiefly
in
respect
of
the
corruptions
of
the
worship
,
together
with
the
unlawfulnesse
of
such
a
ministery
that
is
both
unable
and
ungodly
.
Secondly
,
concerning
the
argument
it
runs
as
full
for
conformitie
to
all
the
corrupt
ceremonies
of
the
booke
as
the
corrupt
worship
it selfe
therein
,
as
was
said
before
,
cleare
the
one
,
viz.
non-conformitie
to
ceremonies
,
shew
a
reason
why
you
will
separate
from
the
Sacrament
,
because
you
will
not
kneele
according
to
the
booke
,
and
you
answer
your
argument
here
alledged
against
us
:
but
the
reply
proceeds
.
Reply
.
And
if
presence
at
formes
of
prayer
bee
not
lawfull
by
reason
of
the
corruptions
alledged
,
there
can
bee
no
visible
societie
named
,
since
200.
yeeres
after
Christ
or
thereabout
,
wherein
a
Christian
might
lawfully
joyne
in
prayer
,
reading
the
Scriptures
,
hearing
the
word
,
or
participation
of
the
Sacraments
;
their
Doctrines
,
prayers
,
rights
being
lesse
pure
then
ours
:
but
no
man
wee
hope
will
bee
so
bold
as
to
affirme
the
state
of
the
Churches
within
200.
yeers
after
Christ
to
bee
so
miserably
decayed
that
the
faithfull
could
not
without
sinne
hold
communion
with
them
in
the
foresaid
ordinances
of
God
.
Answ.
First
,
this
argument
holds
as
strongly
for
conformitie
to
the
ceremonies
as
to
the
whole
booke
of
Common
Prayers
,
as
was
said
before
.
Secondly
,
this
is
a
dangerous
kind
of
reasoning
from
the
practise
of
the
faithfull
in
corrupt
times
of
the
Church
,
especially
when
they
are
declining
,
and
growing
clouds
of
darkenesse
,
and
superstition
overspread
the
Churches
.
It
is
no
breach
of
charitie
to
thinke
that
through
the
iniquitie
of
the
times
,
the
godly
lived
in
many
evils
through
ignorance
and
weakenesse
which
after
light
is
come
into
the
Churches
wee
ought
to
abandon
wholly
;
these
are
times
of
light
and
of
the
consumption
of
Antichrist
,
and
time
for
us
to
abolish
his
Liturgies
and
corrupt
formes
of
worship
as
well
as
Images
,
ceremonies
,
&c.
Who
doe
not
pitie
the
weaknesse
of
godly
Bilny
and
others
that
seeing
some
grosse
corruptions
were
yet
so
devoutly
obedient
to
the
Church
(
as
they
called
it
)
in
many
grosse
superstitions
?
and
the
like
may
bee
said
of
those
former
times
,
and
wee
see
not
but
this
reason
will
goe
farre
in
justification
of
communion
with
many
false
worships
of
Antichrists
that
are
not
grosly
idolatrous
.
Thirdly
,
it
is
a
great
charge
upon
those
times
to
say
no
visible
societie
throughout
the
world
can
bee
named
since
200.
yeeres
after
Christ
,
that
was
not
lesse
pure
then
England
in
Doctrine
,
rites
,
&c.
It
may
bee
,
that
as
generally
Churches
were
corrupt
,
so
they
contemned
and
censured
such
as
professed
more
puritie
:
but
that
there
were
some
visible
assemblies
more
pure
may
bee
conceived
by
that
testimony
given
to
Aerius
and
many
orthodox
Christians
with
him
,
though
condemned
for
a
Hereticke
,
in
that
which
wee
all
now
hold
to
bee
an
undoubted
truth
;
also
after
the
Waldenses
casting
off
the
Pope
and
his
will
worships
,
and
the
following
reformed
Churches
,
those
of
Scotland
,
Geneva
,
and
divers
others
in
France
and
Switserland
,
&c.
whose
Doctrines
,
rites
and
administrations
wee
doubt
not
will
bee
confessed
more
pure
then
English
Churches
.
It
would
bee
too
tedious
,
and
in
these
knowing
times
needlesse
to
search
all
records
and
to
compare
the
puritie
of
the
prayers
,
and
rites
of
these
with
former
times
,
wee
read
of
very
few
formes
used
for
300.
yeeres
,
some
short
ones
they
had
which
are
retained
yet
in
our
Liturgie
,
with
many
more
,
and
those
formes
they
had
,
not
imposed
nor
stinted
,
which
is
the
great
offence
of
this
,
untill
about
the
yeere
406.
and
there
wee
read
in
the
Milevit●n
Councell
that
no
prayers
should
bee
used
in
Churches
but
what
were
either
composed
of
able
and
sufficient
men
,
or
approved
by
the
Synods
,
and
this
was
determined
onely
in
regard
of
the
ignorant
Ministery
of
those
contentious
and
hereticall
Conc.
Miliv
.
Can.
12.
times
,
as
Chemnitius
observes
,
ne
forte
aliquid
contra
fidem
vel
per
ignorantiam
,
vel
per
minus
studium
sit
compositum
.
If
the
Roman
Bishops
did
multiply
(
as
indeed
they
did
excessively
(
unlesse
their
owne
admirers
erre
grossely
)
rites
and
formes
of
prayer
,
yet
it
is
well
knowne
how
long
it
was
ere
the
Churches
in
other
places
submitted
to
their
power
,
so
that
this
comparison
might
well
have
beene
spared
.
To
conclude
,
though
wee
say
not
that
all
Churches
since
200.
yeeres
after
Christ
were
so
miserably
decayed
,
that
the
faithfull
might
not
without
sinne
communicate
with
them
,
yet
wee
may
bee
bold
to
say
many
of
them
were
so
corrupt
,
that
the
faithfull
did
not
,
nor
could
not
communicate
in
many
parts
of
Gods
worship
without
sinnes
of
ignorance
conforming
to
the
corruptions
themselves
;
and
that
if
they
had
seene
and
discovered
the
evill
of
them
,
they
ought
,
and
we
beleeve
would
have
abstained
from
divers
ordinances
in
regard
of
the
corrupt
administrations
of
them
;
yea
after
all
meanes
used
to
purge
them
out
,
and
not
prevailing
,
they
ought
and
would
have
withdrawn
themselves
to
more
pure
Churches
,
or
erected
such
amongst
themselves
.
Reply
.
The
prayers
of
the
Ministers
conceived
or
stinted
in
a
set
forme
bee
not
his
private
prayers
,
but
the
publike
prayers
of
the
assembly
;
but
you
will
not
say
the
people
ought
not
to
joyn
with
their
pastour
therein
if
ought
bee
amisse
,
for
matter
,
manner
,
or
both
.
Answ.
There
is
a
wide
difference
betweene
the
whole
Liturgie
,
so
imposed
,
and
so
clogged
,
as
is
before
shewed
:
and
such
prayers
of
the
Minister
having
something
amisse
.
But
you
may
put
the
case
so
,
as
it
would
bee
unlawfull
for
people
to
joyne
in
such
prayers
also
:
as
if
the
Minister
for
matter
usually
pray
to
Saints
,
for
manner
,
turne
himselfe
,
and
fix
his
eye
on
a
Crucifix
.
Reply
.
It
is
all
one
to
the
people
in
this
●ase
,
whether
the
fault
bee
personall
(
as
some
distinguish
)
or
otherwise
;
knowne
before
hand
or
not
knowne
;
for
if
simple
presence
defile
,
whether
knowne
before
hand
or
not
,
all
presence
is
faultie
,
and
if
simple
presence
defile
not
,
our
presence
is
not
condemned
by
reason
of
the
corruptions
knowne
,
whereof
wee
stand
not
guiltie
.
Answ.
First
,
we
distinguish
not
here
between
personall
and
ministeriall
faults
,
but
object
against
the
personall
act
of
him
that
joynes
with
that
whole
Liturgie
,
and
so
in
the
corruptions
of
it
,
as
hee
must
needs
doe
,
that
joyns
with
the
whole
,
not
onely
saying
Amen
to
them
,
but
as
is
knowne
he
takes
his
share
in
those
shreds
of
prayers
,
Responds
,
&c.
which
in
Mr.
Cartwrights
judgement
is
so
absurd
,
as
makes
a
man
seeme
out
of
his
wits
.
And
therefore
his
personall
,
actuall
conformitie
must
needs
carry
guilt
,
and
therefore
there
is
more
then
simple
presence
in
this
case
,
as
is
cleare
to
any
understanding
.
Secondly
,
it
is
not
all
one
whether
the
faults
bee
knowne
,
or
not
knowne
before
hand
,
as
appeares
plainely
,
1
Cor.
10.
27
,
28
,
29.
where
wee
see
,
if
a
man
come
to
a
feast
,
and
know
not
they
eate
with
reference
to
the
Idoll
,
nor
that
any
take
offence
,
he
may
eate
without
asking
any
question
:
but
if
hee
know
such
things
,
he
may
not
eate
.
Besides
,
publique
sinfull
actions
of
Ministers
are
either
,
1
Accidental
&
occasional
,
or
2ly
.
known
&
appointed
in
a
stated
service
;
now
the
frailties
of
a
Minister
,
which
accidentally
fall
in
and
are
not
known
before
,
nor
are
any
part
and
essence
of
the
service
,
unto
which
men
that
come
,
doe
or
should
take
themselves
to
bee
called
,
hinder
not
communion
;
because
they
doe
not
prae
se
ferre
by
their
presence
to
attend
and
observe
them
,
but
the
corruptions
of
the
Liturgie
are
knowne
and
appointed
,
and
to
which
and
with
which
the
imposers
call
others
to
joyne
as
in
a
stated
service
to
God
;
the
use
of
which
if
it
bee
an
humane
frailtie
in
Gods
Ministers
,
not
yet
convinced
of
the
evill
thereof
,
yet
for
those
to
communicate
herein
,
who
know
such
evills
,
have
surely
passed
the
bounds
of
frailtie
and
infirmitie
;
because
in
this
action
of
prayer
there
is
not
onely
communion
by
way
of
presence
,
as
it
is
in
hearing
the
word
;
but
communion
of
action
:
publique
prayer
being
the
common
action
of
the
whole
Church
towards
God
.
There
can
be
no
prayer
by
any
man
offered
to
God
,
but
there
will
be
some
humane
frailties
attending
on
it
;
if
therefore
for
this
cause
wee
should
reject
communion
in
prayer
,
wee
should
reject
the
ordinances
of
God
,
and
never
joyne
in
any
prayer
in
this
world
;
but
the
corruptions
of
the
Liturgie
are
not
such
,
but
that
they
may
bee
more
easily
cast
off
,
then
kept
.
This
case
stands
not
in
tolerating
faults
in
another
(
as
the
reply
makes
it
)
but
in
actuall
joyning
with
the
sinnes
of
another
,
wherein
hee
that
joyneth
is
involved
,
and
therefore
whether
they
bee
corruptions
,
that
may
bee
tolerated
or
not
in
another
,
yet
if
sinnes
,
they
may
not
bee
practised
and
so
joyned
in
with
another
.
And
therefore
the
case
you
put
of
communion
with
any
person
obstinate
in
errour
,
till
hee
may
bee
convinced
,
is
nothing
to
this
purpose
.
For
wee
must
not
joyne
with
him
in
his
error
,
no
not
an
houre
,
though
wee
may
tolerate
him
a
moneth
.
Reply
.
Hath
not
Christian
wisedome
and
experience
of
humane
frailties
lessoned
you
(
deare
brethren
)
to
beare
one
with
another
in
matters
of
greater
consequence
,
then
any
have
,
or
can
bee
objected
truely
against
the
forme
of
prayer
in
use
among
us
?
Answ.
The
Lord
hath
lessoned
us
to
tolerate
and
beare
with
many
humane
frailties
not
onely
in
one
another
,
but
also
in
our
deare
brethren
abroad
;
but
to
joyne
with
the
best
of
men
in
conformitie
to
knowne
and
grosse
corruptions
in
worshipping
God
,
or
to
stoop
so
low
,
to
the
insolent
tyranny
of
usurping
Prelates
,
as
to
beare
on
our
backs
their
whole
Liturgie
,
and
the
corruptions
thereof
,
wee
confesse
wee
have
not
yet
learned
,
and
now
wee
hope
never
to
goe
to
that
schoole
againe
to
learne
the
same
.
Reply
.
And
why
such
corruptions
should
not
bee
ascribed
to
humane
frailtie
,
we
see
not
.
For
if
a
godly
Minister
make
use
of
a
booke
,
in
things
which
hee
judges
lawfull
for
matter
and
manner
,
the
corruption
of
him
that
useth
it
,
according
to
his
judgement
,
from
what
cause
can
it
spring
but
humane
ignorance
and
frailtie
?
Answ.
First
,
the
learned
replier
is
very
apt
to
forget
the
termes
of
the
Proposition
,
which
is
of
the
whole
Liturgie
,
not
of
some
things
in
it
,
that
hee
may
judge
lawfull
,
to
judge
the
whole
lawfull
,
wee
thinke
none
of
those
who
sent
the
questions
doe
.
Secondly
,
our
question
is
not
whether
the
Minister
use
the
book
of
humane
frailtie
,
but
whether
the
worship
offered
therein
,
bee
not
so
corrupt
for
matter
and
manner
,
as
puts
a
great
difference
betweene
it
,
and
the
prayers
of
a
Minister
that
may
bee
subject
to
faylings
of
humane
frailtie
.
Wee
doubt
not
,
but
Bilney
,
Latimer
,
&c.
used
the
prayers
and
ceremonies
of
the
Church
of
Rome
,
out
of
humane
frailtie
,
yet
the
service
it selfe
and
those
ceremonies
of
holy
water
,
holy
bread
,
&c.
which
Latimer
turned
to
as
good
use
,
as
hee
could
,
were
evill
and
no
way
to
bee
conformed
unto
by
the
godly
.
Thirdly
,
there
are
many
things
done
of
others
through
humane
frailtie
,
that
is
,
ignorantly
and
in
some
measure
perversely
,
yet
such
frailties
,
though
they
are
to
bee
very
long
tolerated
in
the
man
,
yet
every
humane
frailtie
is
not
so
to
bee
tolerated
,
as
to
bee
communicated
with
;
for
the
grossest
Idolatry
in
Popery
may
in
this
sense
,
if
ignorantly
done
,
be
accounted
humane
frailtie
.
It
is
true
,
wee
may
bee
freed
from
communicating
in
anothers
sinne
two
wayes
.
1.
By
bearing
witnesse
against
his
sinne
,
or
2ly
by
withdrawing
from
the
person
committing
it
.
There
were
times
wherein
the
Lord
raised
up
witnesses
against
the
growing
abominations
of
Antichrist
for
many
yeeres
;
and
there
are
times
(
as
Cameron
well
observes
)
wherein
the
Lord
commands
his
people
not
onely
to
beare
witnesse
,
but
to
come
out
of
Babylon
.
The
case
may
be
so
put
as
that
wee
may
quit
our
hands
from
communicating
with
other
men
,
in
their
sinfull
worship
,
by
bearing
witnesse
onely
against
the
sinne
,
yet
communicating
with
them
in
the
rest
;
&
è
contra
the
circumstances
may
bee
such
,
as
that
wee
best
free
our selves
from
sinne
,
by
withdrawing
from
them
in
such
acts
.
And
wee
freely
confesse
wee
know
not
how
to
acquit
others
that
communicate
in
the
whole
Liturgie
,
without
the
one
or
the
other
.
Reply
.
Wee
rest
assured
you
question
not
the
integritie
of
many
,
who
make
much
more
use
of
the
booke
,
then
onely
in
a
few
select
prayers
.
Answ.
You
may
so
doe
,
and
wee
rest
assured
you
question
not
the
integritie
of
many
that
have
conformed
to
the
ceremonies
,
yet
wee
hope
you
will
not
justifie
them
in
that
act
,
no
more
then
we
doe
any
in
this
.
Reply
.
From
the
bottome
of
our
hearts
,
wee
pray
that
the
Lord
would
remove
out
of
his
Church
what
ever
offends
,
and
yet
all
things
might
be
so
done
,
as
might
be
approved
in
the
consciences
of
all
.
Answ.
Wee
not
onely
joyne
with
you
in
this
hearty
desire
,
but
blesse
God
that
wee
live
to
see
the
same
so
farre
accomplished
in
a
good
part
of
England
,
as
it
is
;
but
as
wee
are
perswaded
the
growing
light
and
zeale
of
many
godly
Ministers
and
Christians
,
that
have
discovered
the
evill
of
the
booke
it selfe
,
as
well
as
the
ceremonies
thereof
,
and
their
resolute
rejection
of
the
same
,
was
one
blessed
meanes
hereof
,
so
wee
feare
the
pleas
and
indeavours
of
some
brethren
to
excuse
it
and
the
use
of
it
,
will
be
a
dangerous
meanes
to
uphold
in
the
hearts
of
many
too
good
an
opinion
of
it
,
and
loathnesse
to
cast
it
quite
away
to
the
Moles
and
Bats
,
from
whence
it
first
came
.
Reply
.
To
aggravate
faults
,
especially
when
it
tends
to
draw
away
people
from
the
ordinances
of
God
,
is
no
lesse
evill
then
to
excuse
them
,
it
m●y
bee
greater
.
Answ.
Wee
grant
at
some
times
and
in
some
cases
it
may
bee
so
,
but
in
matters
of
corrupt
worship
,
wherein
God
is
so
jealous
and
at
such
a
time
as
this
was
;
when
the
burthensome
corruptions
of
humane
traditions
so
violently
imposed
on
the
Churches
,
grew
to
such
a
number
and
unsupportable
weight
to
the
consciences
of
so
many
,
wee
doubt
not
to
affirme
,
that
now
extenuations
were
farre
more
dangerous
and
offensive
to
the
Lord
:
wee
cannot
but
with
sad
hearts
con●ider
and
call
to
minde
how
many
weake
Christians
have
ventured
to
swallow
downe
all
manner
of
humane
traditions
and
worships
imposed
upon
them
,
imboldned
much
(
wee
feare
)
by
the
examples
,
if
not
the
reasonings
of
many
godly
Ministers
,
which
scandall
some
of
us
with
many
amongst
you
have
have
cause
to
bewayle
before
the
Lord
and
give
satisfaction
before
the
world
;
And
wee
hope
our
departure
from
these
burdens
,
and
flight
into
these
wildernesses
to
enjoy
Christ
in
more
pure
ordinances
of
his
worship
,
and
the
witnesse
wee
have
thereby
borne
against
them
,
have
not
been
in
vaine
through
the
grace
of
Jesus
Christ
.
Reply
.
In
them
that
joyne
according
to
Christs
command
(
and
libertie
of
absence
from
Christ
hath
not
been
shewed
)
notwithstanding
the
corruptions
,
wee
hold
the
prayers
to
bee
an
holy
and
acceptable
sacrifice
to
the
Lord
,
and
pleasing
to
Jesus
Christ
.
Answ.
How
any
man
can
joyne
with
this
whole
Liturgie
according
to
Christs
command
,
who
in
the
second
commandement
forbids
all
humane
devices
in
his
worship
,
whereof
this
Liturgie
is
so
full
;
it
is
hard
for
us
to
conceive
,
and
strange
to
see
it
affirmed
:
and
that
Libertie
from
Christ
to
bee
absent
cannot
bee
shewed
.
The
whole
sentence
as
it
standeth
,
wee
confesse
to
us
seemes
an
high
justification
thereof
,
which
wee
little
expected
.
Reply
.
The
corrupt
sacrifice
is
that
which
the
deceiver
bringeth
voluntarily
,
and
our
of
neglect
,
having
a
male
in
his
flock
,
but
the
godly
bringeth
himselfe
and
godly
desires
according
to
the
will
of
God
,
and
the
corruptions
in
matter
or
manner
are
not
his
,
they
cleave
not
to
his
sacrifice
to
staine
and
pollute
it
.
The
Text
in
Malach.
1.
is
misapplyed
,
and
wee
desire
such
as
alledge
this
passage
against
simple
presence
at
the
prayers
of
the
Liturgie
,
advisedly
to
consider
whether
God
allow
them
to
make
such
application
of
his
truth
,
which
we
much
doubt
of
,
to
say
no
more
▪
Answ.
That
people
joyning
in
the
whole
Liturgie
,
voluntarily
offer
up
the
same
,
wee
thought
had
beene
no
question
:
If
any
joyne
by
feare
and
compulsion
(
though
the
will
in
this
case
is
not
forced
,
for
mixta
actio
is
voluntaria
)
[
wee
thinke
that
will
not
ease
,
but
aggravate
the
evill
,
arguing
a
reluctancy
or
doubtfulnesse
at
least
in
his
conscience
,
and
so
what
hee
doth
is
not
of
faith
,
and
therefore
sin
,
Rom.
14.
]
2ly
.
What
you
say
of
the
faithfull
here
,
might
be
said
for
the
faithful
in
Malachi
his
time
,
if
any
godly
man
came
with
godly
desires
to
Jerusalem
to
worship
,
and
then
carelesly
buy
and
take
a
corrupt
sacrifice
for
cheapnesse
,
ease
,
&c.
shall
hee
not
bee
counted
(
at
least
in
part
)
this
deceiver
,
and
beare
the
curse
?
And
why
not
so
here
in
this
case
?
Let
a
man
bring
himselfe
,
and
never
so
godly
desires
,
yet
if
hee
will
joyne
in
a
knowne
corrupt
service
,
will
his
godly
desires
excuse
him
?
shall
not
his
broken
absurd
responds
,
his
standing
at
the
Creed
,
kneeling
at
the
Sacrament
,
&c.
all
which
hee
must
doe
,
if
hee
joyne
in
the
whole
Liturgie
,
shall
none
of
these
cleave
to
his
sacrifice
?
what
though
the
Minister
offer
the
service
?
so
did
the
Priest
the
sacrifice
;
But
both
in
the
name
of
the
people
,
and
they
joyning
with
him
in
offering
the
same
to
God
.
3ly
.
Concerning
Malach.
1.
13
,
14.
the
more
advisedly
wee
consider
it
,
the
more
perswaded
wee
are
,
the
Lord
allow
us
to
make
such
application
of
the
truth
contained
in
it
,
and
wee
thinke
others
will
bee
of
our
mind
,
not
onely
in
respect
of
the
similitude
that
is
in
this
case
,
with
that
in
Malachi
,
but
also
if
wee
consider
,
what
an
argument
the
Lord
useth
to
convince
them
of
their
corruptions
and
carelesnesse
in
his
service
,
Verse
11.
wherein
the
Lord
upbraids
the
Jewes
and
provokes
them
to
Jealousie
,
as
the
Apostle
Paul
speakes
,
by
declaring
the
reverend
esteeme
of
his
name
amongst
the
heathen
,
and
that
every
where
Incense
should
bee
offered
and
a
pure
offering
to
his
name
.
And
what
is
that
Incense
,
and
pure
offering
,
but
the
pure
prayers
,
and
worship
of
God
that
should
be
in
all
Gentile
Churches
under
the
Gospell
?
as
Tertullian
,
Eusebius
,
Jerom
and
Austin
with
others
expound
it
.
And
hee
applies
it
againe
,
Verse
14.
I
am
a
great
King
,
and
my
name
shall
bee
great
amongst
the
heathen
:
If
then
the
Lord
oppose
the
pure
prayers
and
worship
of
Gentile
Churches
to
the
corrupt
carelesse
sacrifices
of
the
Jewes
,
the
application
is
not
onely
sutable
,
but
the
place
containes
a
sad
admonition
to
all
Gentile
Churches
,
that
by
their
corrupt
worships
,
and
Incense
,
so
farre
frustrate
(
as
it
were
)
Gods
expectation
and
glorying
of
their
pure
oblations
.
Reply
.
Your
third
Proposition
.
That
as
you
are
very
tender
of
imputing
sinne
to
those
men
that
joyne
in
some
select
prayers
read
by
an
able
and
godly
Minister
,
so
on
the
other
side
,
you
are
not
without
feare
,
l●st
such
joyning
may
bee
found
unlawfull
,
unlesse
it
may
appeare
,
that
the
Ministers
with
whom
they
have
communion
,
neither
give
scandall
by
reading
them
,
nor
give
unlawfull
honour
to
a
thing
abused
to
Idolatry
and
Superstition
,
nor
doe
suffer
themselves
to
bee
sinfully
limited
in
the
reading
of
them
.
1
Wee
cannot
conceive
how
you
should
imagine
the
practise
of
a
godly
Minister
in
reading
some
few
select
prayers
to
bee
scandalous
,
or
offensive
in
the
Congregations
,
when
the
people
generally
in
their
assemblies
and
in
the
whole
land
were
perswaded
of
the
lawfulnesse
of
that
course
,
till
now
of
late
times
some
have
beene
drawne
away
to
separate
;
who
yet
by
warrant
of
Scripture
produce
nothing
of
weight
,
to
countenance
that
practise
.
Answ.
Concerning
this
Proposition
,
wee
doe
ingenuously
confesse
,
that
it
may
seeme
over
rigid
and
tending
to
separation
,
and
therefore
we
will
not
wholly
justifie
the
same
:
yet
diverse
things
there
bee
,
which
may
much
mitigate
the
seeming
rigidnesse
of
it
.
1
In
the
words
of
the
answer
,
where
wee
doe
not
determine
any
thing
positively
,
wee
doe
not
impute
sinne
to
any
in
such
a
case
,
wee
say
onely
that
wee
are
not
without
feare
,
lest
it
may
bee
found
unlawfull
,
where
any
scandall
,
unlawfull
honour
,
or
sinfull
limiting
bee
found
in
the
Ministers
:
and
if
our
feares
bee
needlesse
,
wee
hope
,
such
as
know
how
jealous
the
Lord
is
in
matters
of
his
worship
will
easily
forgive
us
.
2
Because
you
marvell
wee
should
bee
so
timerous
in
this
case
,
wee
shall
give
you
some
reasons
of
it
,
which
perhaps
may
abate
much
the
marvell
or
wonder
.
First
,
let
it
bee
remembred
that
these
select
prayers
are
yet
a
part
of
that
Liturgie
,
which
is
acknowledged
to
bee
corrupt
in
matter
and
manner
and
clogged
with
such
evill
consequences
as
are
afore
touched
;
Taken
out
of
the
Masse-booke
,
&c.
And
Master
Parker
(
who
was
no
separatist
)
doubts
not
to
affirme
,
that
the
touching
of
Antichrists
things
maketh
uncleane
,
for
which
hee
cites
,
2
Cor.
6.
17.
Haggai
2.
14.
John
4.
23.
Park
.
of
the
Crosse
,
part
1.
pag.
137.
Secondly
,
let
it
be
considered
that
this
booke
is
imposed
by
an
unlawfull
Antichristian
authoritie
of
the
Prelates
,
to
whom
to
give
place
and
subjection
in
any
thing
is
justly
to
bee
questioned
.
And
wee
know
that
a
man
may
acknowledge
his
fealtie
and
hold
his
Lands
of
the
Lord
of
the
Manner
by
a
small
rent
,
as
well
as
by
a
greater
.
Thirdly
,
con●ider
this
corrupt
Service-booke
hath
beene
over-long
tolerated
and
borne
withall
in
the
English
Churches
:
it
deserveth
not
so
honorable
a
buriall
as
the
Jewish
worship
:
but
hath
stunke
above
ground
twice
40.
yeeres
,
in
the
nostrills
of
many
godly
,
who
breathed
in
the
pure
ayre
of
the
holy
Scripture
,
being
witnessed
against
by
the
writings
and
sufferings
of
many
godly
Ministers
and
Christians
in
England
and
Scotland
.
Fourthly
,
many
godly
men
(
it
is
well
knowne
)
have
been
(
of
late
times
especially
)
offended
at
many
good
Ministers
silence
in
these
things
,
that
they
would
no
more
plainely
and
boldly
discover
the
corruptions
in
that
booke
,
and
at
their
compliance
with
the
same
.
Fiftly
,
these
are
times
of
more
light
,
whereby
the
Lord
is
consuming
Antichrist
,
with
the
breath
of
his
mouth
.
And
therefore
we
have
cause
the
more
to
feare
how
we
meddle
with
any
thing
of
his
.
Sixtly
,
consider
the
season
when
this
answer
was
sent
,
was
it
not
at
a
time
,
when
superstitious
opinions
of
the
whole
booke
and
the
ceremonies
thereof
,
were
growne
to
a
great
height
in
the
mindes
and
hearts
of
very
many
?
when
divers
superstitious
Popish
worships
,
as
bowing
at
the
name
of
Jesus
,
reading
at
the
Table
set
Altar-wise
,
&c.
were
added
to
the
heape
of
former
corruptions
?
when
the
tyranny
of
the
Prelates
raged
in
the
pressing
of
the
booke
,
and
their
other
humane
inventions
?
when
many
Ministers
and
people
(
well
thought
of
by
the
best
)
were
carried
away
shamefully
with
these
things
?
when
many
weake
Christians
were
staggering
and
wavering
and
looking
at
the
judgement
and
practise
of
their
guides
,
ready
to
stand
or
fall
with
them
?
Lastly
,
consider
that
things
lawfull
in
themselves
may
bee
inexpedient
;
because
offensive
in
their
use
,
and
so
farre
unlawfull
;
which
offence
wee
chiefly
looked
at
in
this
act
,
as
appeares
by
our
answer
.
Let
all
these
things
bee
laid
together
and
weighed
in
an
equall
ballance
(
which
wee
hope
our
brethren
are
now
at
some
libertie
and
leasure
to
doe
)
and
let
the
consciences
of
all
speake
,
whether
it
was
not
high
time
,
for
all
the
godly
in
England
to
take
unto
them
that
zeale
and
courage
,
which
was
soone
after
in
our
Brethren
of
Scotland
,
to
cast
off
and
wholly
abandon
the
book
it self
and
all
the
formes
of
it
,
and
use
of
the
same
in
every
part
and
peece
thereof
?
At
least
wee
hope
you
will
cease
to
marvell
at
our
timerousnesse
of
such
a
season
,
how
ever
wee
confesse
,
wee
have
sometime
been
more
bold
in
the
darke
.
These
considerations
premised
,
as
they
may
in
a
great
measure
abate
the
seeming
rigour
of
the
proposition
:
so
they
will
much
take
off
the
edge
of
the
Reply
.
For
it
will
appeare
that
all
conformitie
of
Ministers
and
people
to
any
parcells
of
that
booke
,
at
such
a
season
as
this
was
,
is
a
farre
differing
case
from
those
that
are
put
in
some
of
the
replies
.
1
To
the
first
reply
then
,
wherein
you
put
it
beyond
imagination
,
that
such
a
practise
should
bee
scandalous
or
offensive
,
wee
know
not
what
you
have
observed
in
some
particular
congregations
neere
you
:
but
what
ever
have
beene
the
opinions
of
men
formerly
concerning
this
practise
,
yet
you
know
that
the
booke
in
generall
hath
been
condemned
of
all
godly
reformers
,
and
the
use
of
any
part
of
it
hath
been
counted
burdensome
to
many
for
the
reasons
named
.
But
of
later
times
,
as
the
booke
and
conformitie
thereto
was
urged
more
hotly
,
so
the
spirits
of
very
many
grew
more
zealous
against
it
,
and
began
to
loath
it
,
and
to
withdraw
wholly
from
it
;
many
very
inquisitive
about
the
lawfulnesse
or
unlawfulnesse
of
joyning
with
it
at
all
,
and
your selves
complaine
of
the
withdrawing
of
many
,
from
joyning
in
the
ordinances
,
where
it
was
used
,
so
that
wee
see
not
,
but
at
least
in
some
persons
and
at
some
places
and
times
it
might
probably
bee
offensive
and
scandalous
so
to
practise
.
2
Wee
looked
not
onely
to
the
offence
of
those
in
your
owne
congregations
,
but
to
the
imboldning
and
hardning
of
Papists
in
honouring
any
part
of
their
portuises
,
above
the
formes
of
other
reformed
Churches
abroad
;
and
you
cannot
bee
ignorant
how
many
of
the
Lords
witnesses
now
asleepe
have
testified
of
the
offence
and
danger
thereof
.
Reply
.
2
You
say
if
the
booke
were
an
Idolothyte
,
yet
latent
offence
doth
not
oblige
.
Answ.
The
offence
in
this
season
,
and
as
all
things
stand
,
cannot
bee
latent
,
complaint
is
made
of
the
offence
taken
by
many
,
and
therefore
it
is
evident
.
Reply
.
3
The
booke
so
farre
as
it
is
sound
and
good
(
by
your
confession
)
is
no
Idolothyte
,
nor
taken
out
of
the
Masse
booke
,
in
such
sense
as
you
object
:
but
rather
the
Masse
and
other
prayers
added
to
it
;
Popery
is
a
sca●
▪
leaving
to
the
Church
,
and
many
truths
belonging
to
the
Church
,
as
her
proper
Legacy
,
were
stolne
,
and
heaped
together
in
that
Denne
;
And
why
the
true
man
may
not
challenge
his
goods
where
ever
hee
finde
them
,
or
the
theefe
plead
title
to
the
true
mans
goods
by
prescription
wee
know
not
.
Answ.
First
,
wee
judge
the
whole
booke
an
Idolothyte
,
and
whence
you
gather
,
that
wee
confesse
the
contrary
of
any
part
of
it
,
as
it
stands
apart
in
relation
to
that
whole
,
wee
know
not
.
Secondly
,
that
it
was
taken
out
of
the
Masse
booke
,
was
proved
by
the
confession
of
King
Edward
;
and
other
evidences
are
many
;
but
you
say
,
not
in
such
sense
as
wee
object
.
But
rather
,
●
contra
Masse
,
&c.
added
to
it
,
&c.
But
where
to
finde
such
a
legacy
bequeathed
to
the
Church
in
the
Testament
of
our
Lord
Jesus
Christ
,
wee
could
never
yet
see
:
So
that
wee
rather
feare
all
those
formes
of
prayer
,
of
marriage
,
burialls
,
visitations
of
the
sick
,
confirmation
,
&c.
are
rather
the
copper
counterfeit
coyne
,
of
a
well
growne
Antichrist
,
whereby
he
cousened
the
Churches
,
when
hee
stole
away
the
golden
Legacy
of
Christ
,
rather
then
any
part
of
the
true
Churches
Legacy
:
and
therefore
it
had
been
more
happy
for
the
Churches
that
they
had
never
challenged
the
same
,
but
let
the
theefes
prescription
to
have
been
a
good
plea
to
hold
them
still
:
this
further
we
adde
,
when
we
say
it
was
taken
out
of
the
Masse-booke
,
wee
understand
Masse-booke
in
a
large
sense
,
(
as
it
is
commonly
taken
)
for
to
speake
narrowly
it
was
collected
out
of
three
Popish
bookes
,
the
first
part
of
publique
Prayers
,
exbreviario
;
the
second
part
,
viz.
the
order
of
administring
Sacraments
,
Matrimony
,
visiting
the
sick
and
burialls
,
è
Rituali
;
3.
the
order
of
consecration
in
the
Supper
,
the
Epistles
and
Gospels
,
and
Collects
,
è
Missali
,
as
the
forme
of
consecration
of
Bishops
and
Priests
was
taken
è
Pontificali
,
as
the
Author
of
Altare
Damase
.
shews
,
pag.
612.
Thirdly
,
because
those
words
,
Popery
is
a
scab
,
&c.
may
bee
a
seed
of
much
evill
,
an
Egge
out
of
which
a
Serpent
may
bee
hatched
,
if
men
zealous
of
mouldy
formes
may
but
have
time
againe
to
set
upon
it
,
if
the
wheele
of
these
evill
times
,
(
through
Gods
judgement
on
this
wantonage
)
turne
the
Prelates
or
other
zelotes
for
this
Liturgie
uppermost
,
wee
shall
therefore
crave
libertie
to
examine
this
speech
more
narrowly
.
And
because
(
as
it
is
said
)
unumquodque
ex
suâ
origine
rectissime
judicatur
,
wee
shall
grace
the
steps
of
the
first
times
and
so
downeward
,
to
see
what
sound
parts
of
Liturgie
there
was
,
on
which
this
scab
is
supposed
to
grow
.
1.
Our
blessed
Saviour
taught
his
Disciples
a
blessed
forme
,
which
though
it
may
bee
lawfully
and
comfortably
used
,
the
rather
,
not
being
of
mans
,
but
the
Lords
composing
:
yet
it
is
evident
hee
never
appointed
his
people
to
use
it
as
their
onely
forme
,
and
therefore
the
Apostles
in
the
primitive
Church
,
in
that
heavenly
prayer
,
Acts
4.
did
not
attend
to
the
words
and
forme
of
this
prayer
,
though
they
might
have
this
in
their
eye
,
as
the
comon
rule
and
direction
how
to
powre
out
their
prayers
to
God
,
for
particular
things
,
which
may
be
an
everlasting
witnesse
against
their
usurpations
,
that
will
limit
the
Churches
to
their
formes
which
the
Lord
Christ
would
not
doe
to
his
owne
.
2.
In
the
first
300.
yeeres
after
Christ
,
wee
read
of
few
formes
,
that
the
Churches
used
,
and
those
rather
short
ejaculations
,
then
set
formes
,
but
contrarily
wee
read
frequently
of
the
exercise
of
their
gifts
in
prayer
.
They
prayed
sine
monitore
,
quia
de
pectore
,
Tertull.
Apol.
cap.
30.
saith
Tertullian
,
i.
e.
They
prayed
without
a
Promptour
,
because
from
the
heart
,
which
as
Zephirus
observes
was
in
opposition
to
the
prompted
formes
then
in
use
amongst
the
Pagans
.
Wee
read
also
what
they
prayed
for
,
viz.
pro
inimicis
,
pro
imperatoribus
,
pro
statu
seculi
,
pro
morâ
finis
,
&c.
but
of
any
set
formes
we
read
not
.
Their
persecutions
and
dayes
of
afflictions
preserved
them
from
formalitie
in
prayer
,
and
taught
them
how
to
finde
their
hearts
and
knees
,
and
tongues
,
to
poure
out
their
soules
to
God
,
while
under
the
Altar
they
were
pouring
out
their
blood
.
3.
But
after
the
Churches
had
enjoyed
peace
for
some
space
of
time
,
(
wherein
securitie
usually
makes
insensible
,
and
insenssblenesse
formall
)
then
indeed
wee
read
ofset
and
imposed
formes
,
which
the
rather
prevailed
in
regard
of
the
grosse
and
palpable
ignorance
of
a
blind
ministry
,
under
a
more
learned
Prelacy
,
and
therefore
it
is
well
observed
by
Chemnitius
that
the
third
Councell
of
Carthage
decreed
this
;
ut
nemo
in
precibus
,
&c.
viz.
that
no
Minister
in
his
prayers
either
names
the
Father
for
the
Sonne
or
the
Sonne
for
the
Father
,
but
when
hee
comes
to
the
Altar
,
to
direct
his
prayers
alwayes
to
God
the
Father
,
and
that
no
man
use
his
owne
formes
,
till
hee
have
conferred
and
shewed
his
formes
to
men
more
able
,
which
wee
finde
sometime
to
bee
the
Synod
.
4
After
these
times
they
added
the
commemoration
of
Saints
Vid.
Chemnit.
Ex.
de
Innoc.
Sanctorum
.
to
their
Prayers
and
Letanies
,
as
appears
from
manifold
instances
,
whereof
take
but
this
one
imputed
to
Chrysostome
:
Sanctissimae
Deiparae
&
semper
Virginis
Mariae
,
cum
omnibus
sanctis
,
memoriam
agentes
,
nos
ipsos
&
omnem
vitam
nostram
Christo
Deo
nostro
commendamus
.
Which
Letanies
at
first
being
used
more
seldome
at
some
times
of
the
year
,
afterwards
grew
into
ordinary
use
,
to
every
end
of
which
the
people
added
,
Lord
have
mercy
upon
us
,
and
Exaudi
Domine
,
We
beseech
thee
to
hear
us
good
Lord
.
5
From
commemoration
of
Saints
,
(
being
so
near
the
brink
)
they
soon
came
on
to
invocation
of
them
,
first
in
private
prayers
,
then
in
publick
,
and
that
by
degrees
.
For
first
,
they
called
upon
Christ
to
hear
their
intercessions
for
them
.
Intercessionibus
Sanctorum
t●orum
,
Salvator
,
salva
nos
:
and
thence
they
fell
to
direct
and
immediate
invocation
of
them
.
Maria
Deo
supplica
,
ut
animas
nostras
salvet
.
6
At
last
they
became
so
superstitious
in
their
Letanies
or
Liturgies
,
that
praying
was
magnified
above
all
preaching
,
and
almost
all
preaching
was
changed
into
formall
,
corrupt
,
and
blind
praying
;
and
thus
it
was
generally
in
the
Churches
,
till
about
the
sixt
Century
,
as
(
if
need
were
)
might
be
shewed
at
large
.
7
Though
other
Churches
were
thus
over-grown
with
Forms
of
Worship
,
yet
the
Roman
Bishops
especially
,
did
multiply
Forms
and
superstitious
Rites
excessively
.
Rome
being
(
in
Gods
secret
Providence
)
left
to
become
the
very
seat
and
throne
of
Antichrist
.
The
Bishops
themselves
also
finding
it
exceeding
hard
to
bring
in
the
Religion
of
Christ
,
without
conforming
to
the
Pagan
rites
,
as
Casaubon
observes
.
For
it
appears
even
in
the
time
of
Theodosius
,
wherein
Christianity
was
risen
to
a
great
head
,
the
Vid.
Birth
of
Heresies
,
out
of
Elasopolitans
Comment.
Senate
being
sent
unto
by
him
to
renounce
their
Pagan
Religion
,
and
receive
the
law
of
Christ
,
they
returned
answer
that
they
would
not
,
but
that
they
would
observe
the
ancient
law
Pompilian
,
to
avoid
the
ruine
of
the
Common-wealth
,
which
they
feared
might
come
by
the
change
of
Religion
.
The
Roman
Bishops
also
for
400
years
together
,
could
never
obtain
of
the
Senate
,
nor
multitudes
of
the
Roman
Idolaters
,
to
renounce
their
inveterate
Idolatry
,
and
receive
the
Gospel
.
Hence
they
conformed
their
Rites
and
Ceremonies
to
the
Pagan
and
Idolatrous
customes
,
the
better
to
allure
them
to
Christ
according
to
their
carnalll
policy
.
We
finde
all
the
principal
parts
of
the
Masse
to
be
borrowed
from
the
Idolatrous
Pagans
,
and
to
have
their
originall
from
Numa
Pompilius
that
Conjurer
,
who
lived
700
years
before
Christ
,
to
adorn
and
deck
(
as
the
Bishops
thought
)
the
Religion
of
Christ
Jesus
,
to
the
which
with
much
ado
at
last
the
Romans
were
converted
.
To
which
principall
parts
,
viz.
Vestments
,
Holy-water
,
the
Con●iteo●
,
Organs
,
Incense
,
Offertory
,
&c.
other
deckings
were
added
also
,
as
divers
Letanies
,
and
the
Kurie
Elyson
to
be
sung
nine
times
,
invented
by
Gregory
a
Monk
at
first
,
well
studied
in
the
laws
of
Num●
and
Tullus
Hostilius
:
Damasus
(
as
Platina
and
Sabellius
shew
)
inriched
it
with
Gloria
Patri
,
&c.
i.
e.
Glory
be
to
the
Father
,
Son
,
and
Holy
Ghost
.
Sergius
,
with
an
Agnus
Dei
,
to
be
sung
three
times
.
Alexander
and
other
Bishops
added
the
Canon
of
the
Masse
;
others
,
the
Epistles
and
Gospels
:
The
Graduall
and
Collects
were
added
by
Gelasius
,
anno
493.
The
Gloria
in
excelsis
by
Symmachus
508.
At
last
came
the
Host
in
about
1062.
Much
more
might
be
said
.
All
which
when
we
consider
,
we
confess
we
are
pus●ed
to
discern
the
difference
between
the
sound
part
and
the
scab
.
For
if
the
principal
formalities
of
the
Masse
(
out
of
which
our
Liturgy
was
taken
;
as
is
confessed
)
arose
out
of
a
politick
push
to
conform
the
Christian
to
the
Pagan
Religion
,
and
the
deckings
of
it
,
from
the
itching
humor
of
the
Roman
busie
Bishops
,
admirers
of
humane
inventions
and
Ceremonies
;
let
the
Reader
then
judge
what
sound
parts
are
left
beside
the
scab
.
We
do
not
speak
this
to
condemn
everything
for
the
matter
▪
of
it
that
is
in
the
Common-Prayer-book
:
Yea
,
we
honor
the
affection
and
piety
of
the
first
Reformers
,
and
the
godly
then
,
that
were
glad
to
hear
Prayers
in
their
own
tongue
,
and
according
to
the
glimmering
light
of
those
times
,
aymed
at
the
winning
of
Papists
to
the
true
Religion
by
such
a
Form
of
Worship
.
But
now
since
experience
hath
taught
,
it
rather
hardens
them
against
the
truth
,
then
draws
them
toward
it
;
when
we
see
the
pressing
of
it
is
rather
a
temptation
to
conform
to
Popery
,
then
otherwise
;
we
verily
beleeve
,
if
they
had
lived
in
these
times
of
further
light
,
they
would
have
born
witnesse
against
it
,
as
others
have
done
.
Lastly
,
though
the
originall
had
been
good
(
which
yet
is
contrary
)
we
may
answer
in
the
words
of
Peter
Martyr
,
to
such
as
did
plead
for
a
lawfull
presence
at
Masse
,
because
the
originall
Pet.
Mart.
loc.
com
.
de
Idol
.
was
good
;
who
answers
thus
:
In
●isce
re●us
non
●rigo
,
&c.
In
these
matters
,
not
the
Originall
,
but
the
Nature
is
to
be
considered
;
for
the
brasen
Serpent
had
its
originall
from
God
,
and
was
honored
with
miraculous
works
:
yet
when
abused
,
Piis
hominibus
redditus
est
detestabilis
,
it
became
(
most
)
loathsome
to
godly
men
.
Reply
.
It
is
no
hard
ta●k
to
shew
,
that
our
Service-book
was
reformed
in
most
things
,
according
to
the
purest
Liturgies
which
were
in
use
in
the
Church
,
long
before
the
Masse
was
heard
of
in
the
world
.
And
if
that
could
not
be
shewed
,
yet
forms
of
speech
generally
taken
(
we
speak
not
of
this
or
that
speciall
word
or
phrase
)
is
no
more
defiled
by
Idolatry
,
then
the
light
,
air
,
or
place
where
Idolatry
is
committed
,
&c.
Answ.
It
is
just
cause
of
grief
unto
us
,
that
this
reverend
Author
should
thus
use
the
Prelates
plea
for
Surplice
and
other
Ceremonies
,
to
justifie
this
corrupt
Liturgy
;
for
these
were
before
the
Masse
,
and
many
other
Idols
of
the
Papists
:
and
though
a
phrase
o●
word
be
not
polluted
by
their
use
of
it
;
yet
a
needless
Ceremony
,
and
so
a
devised
Form
of
Worship
,
and
a
bundle
of
Ceremonious
and
corrupt
Worships
,
must
needs
be
polluted
by
the
use
of
them
;
better
to
use
the
Forms
of
Turks
then
Papists
,
saith
Cartw.
supra
.
Reply
.
Fourthly
,
put
case
the
Minister
in
reading
give
offence
,
give
unlawfull
honor
to
a
thing
abused
to
Idolatry
,
and
suffer
himself
to
be
sinfully
limited
in
reading
?
what
is
that
to
the
faithfull
?
This
can
be
no
ground
that
the
people
may
not
joyn
,
&c.
Answ.
We
doe
not
conclude
that
they
doe
sin
,
but
fearfull
we
are
lest
they
may
so
do
;
all
things
considered
in
this
case
,
as
have
been
before
propounded
.
If
indeed
the
case
stood
as
formerly
it
hath
done
in
England
,
we
would
have
been
lesse
scrupulous
and
doubtfull
of
the
matter
:
but
if
by
the
out-breaking
of
light
,
after
so
long
toleration
of
the
book
,
we
see
so
many
evill
effects
of
it
,
and
see
such
superstitious
opinions
of
it
increasing
,
and
such
pressing
the
same
to
the
oppression
of
the
Churches
,
so
many
fall
,
so
many
weak
ones
stagger
,
and
look
at
the
example
of
their
Guides
:
if
now
when
all
are
called
of
God
to
rise
up
against
it
with
zeal
and
detestation
,
a
Minister
godly
and
able
will
use
any
part
of
it
with
offence
,
&c.
we
suppose
we
had
cause
to
fear
and
leave
it
doubtfull
,
whether
the
godly
might
lawfully
joyn
with
them
therein
,
and
therefore
we
desire
you
to
call
back
your
sharp
censure
of
such
withdrawing
,
as
you
conclude
this
passage
withall
,
or
else
we
shal
appeal
to
the
reverend
Assembly
of
Ministers
,
and
their
late
and
godly
Directory
herein
.
Reply
.
Fifthly
,
If
these
,
and
such
like
scruples
make
it
unlawfull
to
joyn
in
the
ordinance
of
Worship
,
we
must
hold
communion
with
no
society
under
heaven
.
For
may
not
the
brethren
which
hold
all
stinted
Liturgies
and
set
Forms
unlawfull
,
say
with
like
reason
,
it
is
not
lawfull
to
joyn
with
others
in
conceived
Prayers
,
if
they
give
too
little
honor
to
it
,
as
conceiving
the
other
lawful
,
or
sinfully
limiting
themselves
to
one
stinted
Form
,
though
conceived
at
first
by
themselves
,
&c.
Answ.
We
must
in
treat
the
Christian
Reader
still
to
carry
in
minde
with
what
tendernesse
we
offered
our selves
in
this
point
,
and
upon
what
considerations
we
durst
not
wholly
excuse
and
cleare
such
joyning
as
the
case
now
stood
,
and
therefore
we
think
these
reasonings
would
be
far
differing
from
the
case
in
hand
,
and
we
would
not
be
taken
so
as
to
justifie
such
rigid
principles
as
these
are
.
We
heartily
joyn
in
the
conclusion
,
that
such
advancing
of
small
differences
,
would
indeed
bring
all
to
confusion
,
and
we
are
far
(
we
hope
)
from
any
such
meaning
.
If
our
answer
in
this
or
any
other
passage
,
give
just
advantage
to
such
separations
,
we
are
heartily
sorry
for
it
;
but
we
hope
what
hath
been
said
will
satisfie
the
ingenuous
and
Christian
Reader
.
Reply
.
Sixthly
,
we
have
credibly
heard
,
that
you
hold
fellowship
with
professed
rigid
separatists
,
without
acknowledging
of
their
error
,
and
receive
them
as
members
,
or
communicate
with
them
in
the
priviledges
of
the
Church
,
though
you
professe
you
approve
not
their
opinion
or
practice
:
and
if
in
godly
wisdome
you
can
see
grounds
to
joyn
with
them
,
we
marvail
you
should
be
so
timerous
in
this
particular
.
Answ.
Although
in
many
of
our
Churches
we
know
not
that
there
be
any
such
professed
rigid
Separatists
,
that
reject
the
Churches
of
England
,
as
no
Churches
;
and
their
Ministers
,
as
no
true
Ministers
;
yet
we
deny
not
but
some
such
there
may
bee
in
some
of
the
Churches
.
Whence
we
grant
it
may
follow
that
we
can
have
communion
in
Gods
Worship
with
men
of
severall
judgments
,
yet
we
may
be
justly
timerous
of
joyning
or
approving
others
to
joyn
in
any
part
of
a
corrupt
Worship
,
in
case
of
scandall
,
&c.
we
think
these
things
have
not
the
same
face
or
shew
of
reason
in
them
;
and
therefore
so
long
as
they
live
peaceably
with
us
,
we
can
well
have
fellowship
with
them
,
as
we
have
also
with
other
,
that
think
(
it
may
be
)
better
of
the
Churches
and
wayes
of
it
,
then
there
is
cause
,
in
regard
of
the
corruptions
thereof
;
so
we
be
not
bound
to
approve
their
opinions
,
nor
conform
to
any
of
their
corrupt
practises
.
Reply
.
Seventhly
,
if
to
administer
in
a
stinted
Form
be
scandalous
to
such
as
separate
,
it
is
scandall
taken
,
not
given
;
and
we
should
do
it
the
rather
,
that
they
be
not
confirmed
in
their
error
,
the
truth
be
not
prejudiced
,
needless
scruples
occasioned
,
&c.
Answ.
1
This
is
from
the
question
,
for
we
dispute
of
your
Liturgy
,
not
of
any
Liturgy
or
stinted
Form
.
2
Take
in
the
case
in
all
its
circumstances
,
(
as
before
declared
)
and
it
will
appear
scandall
may
be
given
;
at
least
we
put
the
case
of
a
scandall
really
given
.
3
How
far
a
man
in
some
cases
of
clear
and
undoubted
truths
may
do
a
thing
,
the
rather
for
such
reasons
,
though
others
take
offence
,
we
will
not
dispute
:
but
if
for
meat
(
or
by
use
of
our
liberty
by
eating
of
such
meat
,
as
another
accounts
unclean
)
we
may
destroy
the
work
of
God
,
and
therefore
must
not
eat
flesh
,
nor
drink
wine
,
nor
any
thing
whereby
a
brother
stumble
,
&c.
Rom.
14
14
,
15
,
20
,
21.
how
dangerous
then
to
use
such
corrupt
Forms
of
Worship
,
or
any
part
thereof
,
so
much
the
rather
,
when
a
weak
brother
stumbles
at
them
,
we
leave
it
to
the
Christian
Reader
to
judge
,
we
doubt
it
will
not
agree
with
the
rules
of
charity
prescribed
Rom.
14.
1
Cor.
8.
CHAP.
III.
3
Position
.
That
the
children
of
godly
and
approved
Christians
are
not
:
to
be
baptized
,
untill
their
Parents
be
set
members
of
some
particular
Congregation
.
4
That
the
Parents
themselves
,
though
of
approved
piety
,
are
not
to
be
received
▪
to
the
Lords-supper
,
untill
they
be
admitted
as
set
members
.
Reply
.
WHat
is
here
premised
to
prevent
mistakes
,
doth
seem
more
to
raise
,
then
to
abate
scruples
.
You
refuse
not
all
communion
with
all
that
are
not
Church-members
,
and
so
much
they
professe
who
formerly
have
gone
for
,
and
professed
themselves
Separatists
from
our
assemblies
;
you
doe
not
appropriate
these
priviledges
of
the
seals
onely
to
members
of
your
own
Churches
,
&c.
If
you
mean
onely
that
the
Sacraments
administred
in
other
Churches
be
true
for
substance
;
it
is
no
more
then
you
will
confesse
of
Rome
.
If
you
deny
not
fellowship
with
them
in
the
seals
,
and
to
receive
them
to
the
Sacrament
,
your
judgement
is
against
your
practise
,
or
you
exclude
the
Churches
of
England
from
the
number
of
true
Churches
.
Answ.
We
see
not
how
such
scruples
could
be
raised
without
great
mistake
of
our
meaning
,
our
expressions
were
so
plain
and
distinct
.
For
,
1
What
if
some
Separatists
admit
private
communion
with
such
,
yet
they
reject
your
Churches
and
Ministery
as
null
,
which
we
doe
not
.
And
many
of
them
have
refused
also
such
private
communion
.
2
We
marvail
how
you
could
fall
into
such
a
mistake
,
as
to
suppose
we
onely
allow
the
truth
of
Sacraments
for
substance
in
other
Churches
,
when
we
speak
in
the
same
sentence
of
receiving
satisfaction
by
Letters
,
or
otherwise
concerning
those
we
admit
to
the
seales
;
which
plainly
shew
we
speak
of
communion
with
such
Churches
.
3
Concerning
fellowship
with
those
Churches
,
we
may
admit
members
of
them
to
the
seales
with
us
,
when
we
cannot
always
joyn
with
them
in
their
administrations
,
by
reason
of
some
sinfull
corruptions
,
wherein
we
must
have
actuall
fellowship
with
them
;
as
your selves
would
not
joyn
,
in
case
you
must
kneel
at
the
Lords-supper
.
4
Concerning
the
Dilemma
.
We
answer
;
1
Our
practice
is
not
crosse
to
this
profession
.
For
such
as
come
recommended
from
forein
Churches
,
and
give
such
satisfaction
as
is
meet
,
we
doe
receive
;
and
such
as
have
wholly
cast
off
all
relation
to
English
Churches
,
and
live
amongst
us
,
we
have
looked
at
as
scattered
stones
,
till
they
joyn
some
where
in
a
Church
;
and
themselves
generally
so
judge
of
themselves
;
but
if
any
will
hold
to
their
membership
in
England
,
and
come
orderly
to
communion
with
us
,
we
have
not
,
no●
shall
not
under
that
notion
refuse
them
,
if
they
be
fit
for
the
ordinances
;
and
therefore
we
exclude
not
the
English
Churches
out
of
the
number
,
and
herein
we
deal
no
otherwise
with
them
,
then
with
the
members
of
our
owne
Churches
.
Reply
.
All
possible
care
to
keep
the
ordinances
of
God
from
contempt
,
we
allow
and
commend
,
so
you
deny
not
Church
priviledges
,
to
whom
they
are
due
,
nor
the
name
of
Churches
to
such
as
God
hath
blessed
with
meanes
of
grace
,
and
have
r●ceived
the
Tables
and
Seales
,
and
entred
Covenant
with
God
.
Your
liberty
to
receive
such
satisfaction
as
is
meet
,
is
not
questioned
,
nor
whether
you
are
to
keep
the
bond
of
the
spirit
inviolable
according
to
order
:
but
whether
this
be
according
to
▪
order
,
to
exclude
from
the
Sacrament
true
visible
Christians
,
or
known
recommended
Christians
,
formerly
members
of
visible
Churches
amongst
us
,
and
their
children
;
and
to
put
such
difference
between
them
,
and
such
as
are
in
your
Church
order
.
Answ.
1
If
the
learned
Author
would
hold
to
what
here
is
granted
,
we
hope
this
controversie
would
soon
be
at
an
issue
;
but
it
will
appear
after
this
order
allowed
binds
onely
in
case
of
the
Ministers
to
dispense
Sacraments
,
but
Christians
are
left
at
a
loose
end
,
in
respect
of
combining
themselves
unto
particular
Churches
according
to
the
order
of
Christ
,
which
is
the
thing
wee
plead
for
.
2
We
have
not
denyed
the
name
of
Churches
to
such
as
are
said
to
have
plentifully
the
means
of
grace
,
Tables
,
Seales
,
and
Covenant
.
3
Concerning
the
stating
of
the
question
,
too
much
liberty
is
taken
,
as
in
other
cases
;
for
neither
in
the
Position
,
or
in
our
Answer
,
doe
we
limit
the
question
to
members
in
our
Church
order
,
(
as
here
it
is
called
)
but
expresly
extend
the
same
to
other
Churches
of
Christ
,
though
through
error
or
humane
frailty
,
defective
in
matters
of
order
,
yea
,
to
the
members
of
any
true
Church
,
as
in
the
Answer
is
said
.
2.
Concerning
such
as
come
over
,
and
are
for
a
time
without
Seales
,
it
is
not
because
we
refuse
communion
with
them
,
as
being
members
of
your
Churches
known
,
or
recommended
Christians
,
as
you
say
.
For
if
any
godly
man
remaining
a
member
in
any
true
Church
with
you
,
or
elswhere
,
come
so
recommended
,
or
be
well
known
to
the
Church
,
we
never
under
that
notion
refuse
any
,
but
giving
such
other
satisfaction
as
is
meet
,
shall
readily
receive
them
,
as
we
always
professe
,
and
therefore
we
must
still
call
for
attendance
to
the
state
of
this
question
in
its
right
terms
,
viz.
whether
the
children
of
godly
parents
,
or
themselves
though
of
approved
piety
,
are
to
be
admitted
to
the
seales
,
not
being
members
of
some
particular
Congregation
,
or
untill
they
be
such
.
CHAP.
IV.
Reply
.
TO
the
first
consideration
:
If
by
the
Church
be
understood
the
society
of
men
professing
the
entire
faith
,
the
seales
are
given
to
it
,
as
peculiar
priviledges
,
but
if
you
understand
a
Congregationall
assembly
,
the
seales
were
never
appropriated
to
it
.
Answ.
1
Our
meaning
is
plain
in
the
second
sense
,
as
may
appear
by
the
reasons
alledged
against
any
such
universall
Church
,
as
instituted
and
politicall
,
wherein
the
seales
are
dispensed
,
which
reasons
you
answer
not
,
but
grant
there
is
no
such
Catholick
Church
in
our
sense
,
pag.
21.
And
if
no
such
Church
wherein
the
seales
are
administred
,
as
we
proved
,
then
the
cause
it self
is
yeelded
,
and
the
seales
must
belong
to
particular
Churches
.
2.
Seeing
the
main
hinge
of
this
question
turns
upon
this
point
,
to
what
Church
the
administration
and
participation
of
the
seals
belong
,
wee
shall
a
little
further
open
our selves
in
this
point
.
And
because
we
affect
and
study
peace
with
truth
;
we
shall
freely
acknowledge
,
First
,
that
as
there
is
an
invisible
Church
and
Body
of
Christ
,
consisting
of
all
the
elect
,
effectually
called
throughout
the
world
in
all
ages
of
it
,
the
whole
family
in
heaven
and
earth
:
so
unto
Jesus
Christ
,
all
the
visible
beleevers
and
Churches
of
the
world
,
are
as
one
body
to
him
,
he
governing
,
protecting
,
instructing
all
as
his
visible
body
.
Secondly
,
we
acknowledge
a
visible
communion
of
all
the
true
Churches
of
the
Lord
Jesus
,
in
all
offices
of
brotherly
love
,
and
in
the
holy
things
of
Christ
,
so
far
as
may
appear
,
the
Lord
have
ordained
and
commanded
,
and
by
his
Providence
called
them
to
exercise
one
with
another
.
Thirdly
,
we
grant
that
all
true
beleevers
,
where-ever
they
bee
,
have
by
faith
in
Christ
,
a
true
right
and
interest
unto
Jesus
Christ
and
all
his
benefits
,
whatsoever
he
hath
purchased
for
them
;
but
here
we
must
first
distinguish
of
these
benefits
of
Christ
,
whereof
some
are
meerly
spirituall
,
inward
,
and
flowing
immediately
from
Christ
unto
them
;
and
therefore
peculiar
to
true
beleevers
,
as
justification
,
sanctification
,
adoption
,
accesse
to
God
in
prayer
,
&c.
some
are
outward
and
tending
to
the
help
and
furtherance
of
our
spirituall
communion
with
Christ
,
being
outward
and
visible
meanes
thereof
;
and
therefore
are
also
extended
to
hypocrites
being
visible
beleevers
,
as
the
Ministery
of
the
Word
,
Seals
,
Church-discipline
,
&c.
And
these
cannot
be
dispensed
by
Christ
immediately
nor
ordinarily
,
but
by
means
of
a
visible
Church
.
2.
We
distinguish
of
right
to
these
outward
benefits
of
Christ
;
which
is
either
remote
,
called
,
jus
ad
rem
;
or
near
,
and
immediate
,
called
,
jus
in
r●
;
right
to
the
enjoyment
and
fruition
of
it
.
Now
in
the
first
sense
we
grant
,
all
visible
beleevers
have
a
right
to
seals
,
&c.
But
the
immediate
fruition
of
them
,
they
must
have
mediante
Ecclesiâ
visibili
:
now
here
lyes
the
true
state
of
the
question
,
Whether
the
Lord
Jesus
have
ordained
an
universall
visible
Church
,
in
which
,
and
unto
which
,
by
the
Officers
thereof
all
these
outward
visible
priviledges
and
means
of
Grace
,
are
to
be
dispensed
and
immediately
enjoyed
of
the
faithfull
;
or
whether
(
not
the
remote
right
,
but
)
the
immediate
fruition
and
administration
of
all
these
ordinances
by
the
institution
of
Christ
,
be
given
to
particular
visible
Churches
;
and
surely
to
whom
one
of
these
is
given
,
all
are
given
:
For
there
is
the
same
nature
,
reason
,
and
use
of
all
,
Ministry
of
the
Word
,
Seals
,
Discipline
,
all
are
outward
ordinances
,
priviledges
,
means
of
Grace
,
belonging
to
the
visible
Church
,
where
Christ
hath
given
one
,
he
hath
given
all
.
But
we
must
confesse
,
however
you
call
this
,
A
new
Church
way
,
it
is
new
to
us
to
read
so
much
of
late
,
of
such
a
Catholick
Church
,
to
which
administration
of
Seals
,
Censures
,
&c.
belong
.
We
are
yet
of
the
opinion
of
Baynes
,
Parker
,
and
Cartwright
,
&c.
that
have
against
Papists
and
Prelates
maintained
,
that
in
the
new
Testament
there
is
no
instituted
Catholick
,
Nationall
,
or
Provinciall
Church
;
but
onely
the
Church
of
a
particular
Congregation
,
both
for
the
reasons
alledged
in
our
Answer
,
as
also
for
the
impossibility
thereof
in
the
days
of
the
New
Testament
,
when
the
Lord
Jesus
sent
his
Apostles
into
all
the
world
;
therefore
impossible
both
in
regard
of
distance
of
place
,
and
variety
of
language
almost
ever
to
meet
in
one
,
so
much
as
by
representation
,
and
that
not
onely
by
accident
,
as
may
befall
a
particular
Church
,
by
sickness
,
persecution
,
&c.
but
by
the
necessity
of
nature
and
invincible
hinderances
foreseen
by
Christ
,
and
intended
by
him
.
And
therfore
,
as
the
Lord
limiting
his
Church
to
one
Nation
,
united
it
into
that
form
of
a
Nationall
Church
,
ordaining
one
place
,
stated
times
and
duties
of
Worship
,
and
one
Government
for
the
same
:
so
now
the
Lord
neglecting
all
such
things
,
hath
ordained
a
compleat
administration
of
all
his
ordinances
in
particular
Congregations
,
and
therefore
if
there
be
no
other
instituted
visible
Church
but
of
a
Congregation
,
and
Seals
in
their
administration
be
given
to
the
Church
,
our
first
consideration
will
still
hold
firm
.
But
seeing
in
so
vast
a
subject
to
say
little
,
is
to
say
nothing
;
and
there
is
scarce
any
Truth
in
this
wilie
age
but
is
almost
disputed
out
of
countenance
,
and
much
darkned
with
humane
evasions
;
and
seeing
much
depends
upon
this
controversie
,
it
may
be
so
most
usefull
before
we
come
to
the
defence
of
our
argument
to
take
into
consideration
the
nature
and
order
of
the
visible
Church
of
Christ
Catholick
and
particular
.
We
are
not
ignorant
of
the
knots
and
difficulties
of
this
question
,
which
of
late
have
so
much
exercised
the
minds
of
many
Godly-learned
:
And
we
think
the
notions
of
a
Catholick
Church
,
as
it
is
now
held
,
being
but
newly
taken
up
amongst
godly
Reformers
,
who
formerly
ran
in
another
channell
,
(
as
is
ingenuously
confessed
by
some
according
to
the
truth
)
this
new-birth
seems
not
yet
so
formed
to
its
distinct
proportions
,
as
time
may
bring
it
unto
:
and
it
might
make
us
afraid
(
being
the
weakest
of
many
)
to
venture
upon
so
diffuse
and
knotty
a
question
,
when
we
look
upon
our
own
insufficiency
to
such
a
task
,
and
the
Learned
labors
of
such
in
this
Point
,
whom
we
reverence
in
the
Lord
:
yet
,
when
we
consider
of
what
great
weight
and
moment
the
clearing
up
of
this
Truth
would
be
unto
the
orderly
proceedings
of
the
great
Work
of
Reformation
in
hand
;
2
How
unavoydably
it
lyes
in
our
way
in
this
Work
the
Lord
hath
called
us
unto
;
and
that
he
sometimes
doth
vouchsafe
to
speak
by
weak
ones
,
that
the
praise
may
be
his
own
,
in
hope
of
his
blessed
guidance
which
we
depend
upon
herein
,
taking
the
light
of
his
Word
in
our
hands
,
we
shall
(
rather
as
learners
then
otherwise
)
venture
to
propound
what
is
suggested
to
us
herein
.
Concerning
which
having
digressed
a
while
,
we
shall
return
(
we
hope
)
with
some
advantage
of
clearer
evidence
to
justifie
the
first
argument
of
the
Answer
,
against
what
is
said
in
the
Reply
.
CHAP.
V.
A
digression
tending
to
clear
the
state
of
that
controversie
concerning
a
Catholick
visible
Church
,
in
respect
of
the
nature
,
unity
,
visibility
,
and
priority
of
the
same
.
THe
world
hath
been
long
troubled
with
the
equivocation
of
the
word
[
Church
:
]
and
therefore
(
as
it
is
needfull
)
we
shall
labor
to
set
down
our
thoughts
as
distinctly
and
plainly
as
we
can
in
certain
Propositions
that
may
be
some
ground
of
our
discourse
.
Propos.
1.
The
true
Church
of
God
is
the
whole
number
of
Elect
and
called
ones
out
of
the
world
to
fellowship
with
Jesus
Christ
their
Head
,
with
whom
they
make
up
one
mysticall
body
,
Ephes.
1.
23.
This
whole
Church
is
of
the
same
nature
,
and
one
in
essence
from
the
beginning
of
the
world
to
the
end
;
for
this
Church
Christ
laid
down
his
life
,
Ephes.
5.
26.
Joh.
10.
15.
and
therefore
he
adds
,
vers.
16.
such
as
are
not
yet
of
his
fold
(
actually
)
shall
be
brought
into
the
same
,
viz.
by
effectuall
calling
,
that
there
may
be
one
Shepheard
and
one
sheepfold
:
wherby
it
appears
that
the
whole
fold
of
Christ
to
which
he
stands
as
one
Shepheard
,
contains
all
his
members
and
sheep
to
the
end
of
the
world
,
and
it
is
one
fold
in
relation
to
Christ
that
one
Shepheard
.
Propos.
2●
This
one
entire
body
of
Christ
doth
naturally
fall
under
various
notions
and
considerations
,
as
(
omitting
others
)
when
it
is
considered
according
to
the
adjuncts
of
visibility
and
invisibility
,
which
are
onely
adjuncts
of
the
same
Church
,
as
is
generally
observed
by
Divines
.
In
respect
of
the
inward
union
which
every
such
member
hath
with
Christ
the
Head
,
by
the
Spirit
of
Christ
,
and
by
Faith
,
whereby
we
are
united
to
him
;
it
is
called
invisible
,
because
this
union
is
not
visible
to
men
.
In
respects
of
some
visible
fruits
and
manifestations
of
faith
to
the
judgment
of
men
,
it
is
called
visible
;
and
hence
though
true
beleevers
be
onely
univoce
,
and
properly
members
of
this
body
of
Christ
;
yet
to
men
that
judge
onely
by
outward
effects
many
hypocrites
,
Whit.
de
Eccle.
equivoce
and
improperly
are
accounted
of
the
Church
;
and
hence
the
Scripture
frequently
speaks
of
visible
Churches
,
as
if
they
were
all
really
Saints
.
Propos.
3.
As
this
Church
comes
to
be
visible
,
so
it
becomes
a
fit
and
capable
subject
of
visible
policy
,
and
visible
communion
with
Christ
their
Head
,
and
one
with
another
in
all
the
visible
ordinances
of
Christ
,
a
capable
subject
we
say
,
or
matter
fit
for
such
a
state
;
for
by
its
visibility
it self
it
is
not
so
,
having
yet
no
more
then
a
spirituall
relation
to
Christ
and
one
another
:
no
visible
combination
one
with
another
;
for
visible
beleevers
may
be
so
scattered
in
severall
Countreys
,
that
they
cannot
make
up
one
Society
.
Propos.
4.
And
therefore
we
add
,
That
there
is
no
way
for
this
Church
to
enjoy
actuall
visible
communion
under
the
visible
government
of
Christ
,
and
in
the
visible
instituted
ordinances
of
Christ
,
but
in
a
Society
.
A
thousand
uncombined
persons
meeting
occasionally
in
one
place
,
though
their
naturall
relations
were
as
near
as
brethren
,
yet
have
no
power
of
government
or
actuall
communion
in
any
Civill
priviledges
,
if
they
stand
not
in
relation
to
one
another
as
a
combined
Society
;
as
after
shall
be
shown
;
so
here
:
And
therefore
,
Acts
2.
41
,
42.
first
they
were
added
to
the
Church
,
and
then
followed
their
fellowship
in
all
the
ordinances
of
the
Church
;
as
after
will
more
fully
appear
.
And
hence
it
is
said
,
Acts
5.
14.
Beleevers
were
added
;
first
they
were
beleevers
,
standing
in
that
spirituall
relation
to
Christ
and
his
whole
body
,
and
then
added
to
the
Church
by
visible
combination
.
Propos.
5.
There
is
no
visible
society
of
a
Church
who
hath
actuall
and
immediate
right
unto
,
and
communion
in
the
visible
government
of
Christ
,
and
the
dispensation
of
his
instituted
Worship
and
ordinances
,
but
such
a
Society
as
the
Lord
Jesus
hath
in
the
Gopel
instituted
and
ordained
for
that
end
.
We
say
actuall
and
immediate
right
unto
the
same
;
for
though
a
beleever
,
quâ
beleever
,
have
an
immediate
right
,
and
actuall
enjoyment
of
such
benefits
of
Christ
as
necessarily
and
immediately
flow
from
his
internall
union
with
Christ
,
as
justification
,
adoption
,
&c.
and
such
right
to
Christian
communion
with
all
the
Saints
in
their
prayers
,
gifts
,
&c.
as
flow
from
his
spirituall
relation
unto
them
;
yea
,
and
also
he
hath
a
true
right
to
all
benefits
purchased
by
Christ
in
a
due
order
and
manner
:
yet
we
say
instituted
priviledges
and
ordinances
doe
not
immediately
flow
from
spirituall
union
and
relation
to
Christ
and
his
members
,
but
are
dispensed
by
Christ
to
his
people
mediately
,
and
in
such
an
order
as
he
hath
in
wisdome
ordained
:
and
this
the
nature
of
visible
government
and
ordinances
of
Christ
necessarily
requires
.
And
hence
it
is
,
that
although
the
Church
in
its
nature
and
essence
,
and
in
respect
of
its
spirituall
union
and
relation
to
Christ
and
one
another
,
profession
of
the
same
faith
,
&c.
have
been
always
one
and
the
same
in
all
ages
,
yet
both
the
visible
government
and
ordinances
of
Worship
,
and
also
the
instituted
form
and
order
of
Church-societies
hath
been
various
according
to
the
wisdome
and
will
of
Christ
,
whereby
it
appears
,
that
the
order
,
government
,
forms
of
visible
Church-societies
,
to
which
actuall
enjoyment
of
visible
ordinances
doe
belong
,
cannot
justly
be
deduced
from
the
common
nature
of
the
Church
Catholick
,
or
any
respects
of
reason
or
logicall
notions
under
which
it
may
fall
:
but
onely
this
depends
upon
the
will
and
pleasure
of
Christ
,
who
hath
in
all
ages
instituted
the
forms
and
orders
of
such
Societies
to
whom
the
actual
enjoyment
of
instituted
ordinances
was
given
:
And
hence
the
argument
for
a
nationall
form
of
a
Church
to
be
in
the
New
Testament
as
wel
as
in
the
Old
,
drawn
from
the
common
nature
,
essence
,
prosession
of
faith
,
&c.
of
the
Church
in
all
ages
,
falls
flat
to
the
ground
,
for
by
the
same
reason
it
must
then
be
in
families
onely
now
,
as
it
was
about
Abrahams
time
.
Propos.
6.
Hence
it
follows
that
the
true
state
of
this
great
dispute
about
a
Catholick
Church
(
so
far
as
tends
to
clear
up
to
what
Church
the
actuall
administration
of
Church-government
,
and
all
instituted
Worship
belongs
)
doth
not
lye
in
the
consideration
of
the
common
nature
,
essence
,
unity
,
visibility
,
or
any
other
notions
under
which
it
may
fall
;
but
the
true
state
lyes
here
concerning
the
nature
,
order
,
form
of
such
visible
Societies
,
as
Christ
Jesus
by
Divine
institution
in
the
Gospel
hath
reduced
his
visible
members
unto
,
for
the
actuall
and
immediate
enjoyment
of
all
his
instituted
ordinances
.
And
therefore
(
with
due
respect
to
the
Godly-learned
be
it
spoken
)
we
conceive
many
large
disputes
in
this
question
fall
short
of
the
issue
that
is
desired
and
intended
;
for
what
if
it
be
granted
:
1
That
there
is
a
Catholick
visible
Church
,
which
in
some
respects
of
reason
(
as
Mr.
Ball
saith
)
is
one
that
having
partes
visibiles
,
is
a
totum
visibile
.
2.
That
the
visible
Church
is
not
onely
a
totum
genericum
,
in
relation
to
all
the
particular
Congregations
,
as
species
specialissimae
,
of
a
visible
Church
in
generall
,
(
which
respect
of
reason
in
some
sense
we
freely
consent
unto
)
but
also
that
it
may
fall
under
the
notion
of
a
totum
integrale
,
as
some
contend
,
(
though
we
conceive
in
this
notion
,
they
are
so
intangled
in
their
own
logicall
principles
,
as
that
they
cannot
get
out
without
breaking
them
,
and
flying
to
theologicall
considerations
)
yet
we
say
,
what
if
that
also
be
attained
?
3
Yea
further
,
what
if
this
Catholick
Church
be
in
some
respects
of
reason
and
order
of
nature
also
the
first
Church
,
and
particular
Churches
,
ortae
?
4
Yea
further
,
what
if
it
were
gained
also
by
such
disputes
,
that
the
Keys
and
Officers
,
Ordinances
,
&c.
be
given
firstly
to
this
Catholick
Church
as
to
the
object
and
end
?
We
confesse
we
do
not
see
that
what
our
Brethren
contend
for
,
is
by
all
this
obtained
.
For
,
first
,
if
the
universall
number
of
visible
beleevers
be
one
totum
aggregatum
;
yet
it
will
bee
hard
to
prove
that
these
are
one
instituted
and
politicall
Society
,
that
can
enjoy
visible
communion
together
in
visible
Worship
and
government
;
and
yet
more
hard
to
prove
that
by
the
institution
of
Christ
,
these
all
are
to
be
actually
governed
as
one
totum
.
Secondly
,
what
though
the
members
of
the
Church
Catholick
be
in
order
of
time
before
particular
Churches
,
as
being
fit
matter
for
them
,
and
constituting
of
them
?
yet
this
proves
not
one
politicall
body
before
they
combine
,
but
rather
the
contrary
.
Thirdly
,
be
it
so
that
this
Catholick
Church
is
the
first
Church
to
which
Christ
hath
firstly
given
the
Keys
,
Ordinances
,
Promises
,
&c.
for
which
Christ
firstly
performed
the
Offices
of
King
,
Priest
,
and
Prophet
,
and
what
else
soever
can
be
said
in
this
kinde
;
yet
all
this
may
be
in
this
respect
that
Christ
looked
at
this
Catholick
Church
firstly
as
the
chief
object
and
end
for
whose
sake
and
good
he
ordained
and
gave
all
these
things
,
and
this
will
not
carry
the
cause
;
for
as
the
Church
Catholick
visible
in
this
sense
is
the
first
Church
in
respect
of
the
particulars
,
so
the
invisible
body
of
Christ
is
in
nature
and
priority
the
first
Church
in
respect
of
visible
,
as
visible
;
for
Christ
no
doubt
firstly
intends
and
gives
all
these
things
to
the
invisible
Church
,
as
to
the
object
and
end
of
the
same
for
whose
good
they
are
all
ordained
;
rather
then
for
the
Catholick
visible
Church
,
which
containes
many
hypocrites
and
reprobates
within
the
verge
of
it
.
But
now
if
we
speak
of
a
subject
of
the
Keys
,
to
which
the
actuall
exercise
and
dispensation
of
Keys
and
instituted
Ordinances
belong
:
who
doe
not
see
that
in
this
sense
the
invisible
Church
quâ
talis
,
cannot
be
that
instituted
Society
to
which
the
Keys
,
&c.
belong
;
and
by
the
same
reason
the
Catholick
visible
Church
quâ
totum
,
and
quâ
Catholick
,
cannot
be
this
instituted
Society
to
which
they
are
given
.
It
is
a
known
rule
in
Reason
,
that
,
That
which
is
first
in
intention
,
is
last
in
execution
;
and
so
it
is
here
,
first
,
Christ
propounds
this
end
to
himself
to
gather
,
edifie
,
perfect
,
sanctifie
,
save
his
Catholick
Church
,
Ephes.
4.
11
,
12.
&
5.
26.
and
therefore
institutes
all
ordinances
as
means
to
farther
and
attain
this
great
design
;
but
in
execution
he
may
(
for
all
this
)
give
the
Keys
and
ordinances
in
regard
of
the
immediate
exercise
to
any
form
of
visible
Societies
that
he
shall
be
pleased
to
institute
,
and
it
may
be
that
will
prove
the
least
Society
sooner
then
a
greater
.
And
seeing
our
Brethren
otherwise
minded
make
much
use
of
similies
in
this
dispute
:
we
hope
it
will
not
be
amisse
for
us
to
illustrate
what
we
say
by
a
similitude
,
partly
to
make
our
conceivings
the
more
plain
to
all
whose
edification
we
seek
;
and
partly
,
to
discover
the
invalidity
of
many
discourses
of
this
nature
;
and
because
similia
arguunt
fidemque
faciunt
,
(
as
he
saith
)
viz.
so
far
as
rightly
applyed
)
we
will
therefore
propound
it
in
way
of
argument
.
The
similitude
is
this
,
genus
humanum
,
or
mankinde
in
generall
is
the
subject
of
Civill
government
in
generall
,
and
of
all
the
priviledges
thereof
,
as
the
object
and
the
end
:
and
let
the
question
be
,
whether
this
Catholick
number
of
all
mankinde
is
the
first
subject
of
all
power
of
Civill
government
,
and
the
priviledges
thereof
;
and
if
so
,
whether
such
consequences
will
follow
as
our
Brethren
deduce
from
the
unity
,
visibility
,
and
priority
of
the
Catholich
Church
.
Now
we
reduce
what
we
intend
into
an
Argument
,
thus
:
If
all
that
can
be
said
from
Scripture
and
Reason
concerning
the
unity
,
visibility
,
and
priority
of
the
Catholick
Church
,
may
as
truly
be
affirmed
upon
like
grounds
of
the
Catholick
body
of
mankinde
,
then
à
p●ri
it
will
follow
that
there
is
no
more
one
Catholick
visible
instituted
totum
,
that
is
the
first
subject
of
Church
power
and
priviledges
in
the
actuall
exercise
and
enjoyment
of
the
same
,
then
that
there
is
such
a
Catholick
body
of
mankinde
that
is
the
first
subject
o●
Civill
power
,
&c.
and
that
actually
doth
or
ought
to
govern
and
be
governed
as
one
Catholick
body
in
communion
:
but
it
will
appear
from
Scripture
and
Reason
,
that
the
same
things
may
be
said
of
mankind
1
Cor.
15.
47●
that
can
be
said
of
the
other
;
Ergo
,
And
it
is
proved
per
partes
,
thus
:
1
For
the
unity
;
are
not
all
mankinde
oft
in
Scripture
called
the
world
?
Joh.
3.
16
▪
So
God
loved
the
world
,
that
is
,
mankinde
in
the
world
;
which
is
one
.
So
,
frequently
all
mankinde
is
called
man
,
Gen.
6.
5
,
6
,
7.
I
will
not
strive
with
man
,
&c.
yea
,
it
is
one
kingdom
,
Psal.
145.
11
,
12
,
13.
which
(
if
we
view
the
whole
Psalm
)
must
be
understood
of
the
generall
government
of
Gods
providence
over
all
the
world
,
and
especially
mankinde
therein
,
1
Chron.
29.
11
,
12.
&c.
so
that
all
is
one
kingdom
,
Acts
17.
26.
God
hath
made
of
one
blood
all
Nations
;
all
are
one
blood
,
all
have
their
bounds
set
by
God
,
&c.
that
they
might
seek
him
,
and
feel
after
him
;
and
as
it
is
said
for
one
Catholick
Church
,
because
it
hath
one
Lord
,
one
Faith
,
one
Baptism
,
one
Spirit
,
and
are
bound
to
love
and
pray
one
for
the
other
,
&c.
so
there
is
a
like
unity
here
,
for
the
whole
number
of
mankinde
hath
one
Lord
and
King
over
all
,
God
who
is
King
over
all
the
earth
called
an
head
over
all
,
1
Chron.
29.
11.
yea
,
Jesus
Christ
is
Lord
of
Lords
,
and
King
of
Kings
,
and
head
over
all
to
the
Church
,
Ephes.
1.
22.
All
have
one
Law
,
the
Morall
Law
,
the
common
rule
of
equity
and
righteousness
whereby
they
are
bound
to
walk
towards
God
and
one
another
,
and
this
writ
in
the
hearts
of
all
;
they
have
all
one
spirit
of
reason
disposing
them
to
society
and
mutuall
offices
of
love
,
one
faculty
of
speaking
to
fit
them
for
communion
,
one
end
to
feel
after
God
,
Act.
17.
and
seek
ye
good
of
the
whole
kinde
;
all
ought
to
love
one
another
,
desire
and
seek
the
welfare
of
the
whole
,
and
of
one
another
,
Esay
58.
7.
yea
,
the
Lord
as
a
common
head
by
the
working
of
his
common
Providence
,
and
out
of
his
love
of
mankinde
,
hath
a
common
and
constant
influence
into
all
,
giving
not
onely
life
and
breath
,
and
all
good
things
,
Acts
17.
but
also
all
gifts
of
wisdom
,
art
,
skill
,
for
Government
,
&c.
to
Kings
,
Judges
,
Fathers
,
Masters
,
and
all
Officers
of
Civill
government
,
for
the
good
of
the
whole
;
and
what
ever
else
may
be
said
to
prove
the
Catholick
Church
On●
,
may
here
be
applyed
.
And
as
for
principles
of
reason
,
it
is
easie
to
conceive
that
all
mankinde
will
fall
either
under
the
notion
of
one
genus
homo
,
whereof
the
individua
are
species
specialissimae
,
or
in
another
respect
all
persons
,
all
Families
,
Cities
,
Kingdomes
may
(
in
a
sense
)
make
one
totum
integrale
,
or
aggregatum
.
Secondly
,
it
is
as
evident
that
all
this
number
of
mankinde
are
one
visibile
totum
,
by
the
arguments
used
for
the
visible
Catholick
Church
,
for
that
which
hath
visible
parts
,
is
a
visible
totum
,
i●
holds
here
as
well
as
in
the
other
case
.
Yea
,
if
the
Catholick
Church
be
one
visible
Body
,
because
it
hath
organs
and
visible
Officers
in
it
,
it
will
hold
here
,
for
all
mankinde
is
but
one
Army
of
the
Lord
of
Hosts
,
who
hath
Armies
of
heaven
,
and
Armies
on
earth
,
and
in
this
Body
God
by
his
Providence
hath
set
,
and
by
his
ordinance
hath
ordained
Fathers
,
Masters
,
Husbands
,
Judges
,
Kings
,
&c.
to
govern
in
this
Body
of
mankinde
for
the
good
of
the
whole
.
Ruling
and
subjection
by
the
fifth
Commandement
of
the
Morall
Law
,
which
is
in
all
mens
hearts
,
is
ordained
of
God
for
the
order
,
peace
,
and
welfare
of
all
mankind
,
and
therefore
why
is
not
this
by
the
same
reason
a
totum
visibile
?
Thirdly
,
for
Priority
,
it
is
clear
,
that
as
God
hath
firstly
in
nature
and
intention
given
Christ
to
the
whole
Church
,
then
to
this
and
that
particular
beleever
,
and
the
power
of
feeding
and
being
fed
and
governed
by
shepheards
.
First
,
to
the
whole
race
of
sheep
.
Secondly
,
to
this
or
that
flock
.
So
in
nature
and
Gods
intention
he
hath
firstly
given
to
the
race
of
mankind
power
of
being
governed
with
Government
and
Governors
,
before
they
are
given
to
this
or
that
Family
,
City
,
Kingdom
,
&c.
So
likewise
what
is
said
of
Promises
,
given
to
the
Church
Catholick
firstly
;
is
it
not
as
true
here
?
Those
promises
and
blessings
increase
and
multiply
,
Subdue
the
earth
and
inhabite
it
.
The
feare
and
dread
of
you
shall
be
on
all
beasts
:
and
all
like
promises
and
priviledges
of
marriage
,
of
liberty
to
eat
flesh
,
&c.
mentioned
,
Gen.
2.
&
9.
and
all
over
the
Scripture
,
are
they
not
in
nature
first
given
to
mankinde
?
and
then
to
this
or
that
person
,
family
,
City
?
So
if
Church
power
,
and
all
Officers
and
Offices
be
firstly
given
to
the
Catholick
Church
,
not
to
this
or
that
particular
Church
:
So
it
's
here
,
when
the
Scripture
saith
,
Submit
to
the
higher
Powers
,
for
all
Powers
are
of
God
,
Rom.
13
〈◊〉
me
,
saith
God
,
Kings
reign
,
and
Princes
decree
judgment
,
and
such
like
Scriptures
;
doth
this
firstly
belong
to
this
or
that
Kingdome
,
City
,
&c.
and
not
rather
that
God
hath
firstly
set
up
and
ordained
Civil
Powers
for
mankind
,
to
be
obeyed
of
all
mankinde
firstly
,
and
then
in
this
or
that
state
.
Is
foederall
holinesse
first
the
priviledge
of
the
Catholick
Church
?
(
which
in
a
sense
we
will
not
now
contradict
)
so
is
legitimation
,
first
the
priviledge
of
married
society
in
generall
in
all
mankinde
,
and
then
of
this
or
that
family
.
Are
the
members
of
particular
Churches
firstly
of
the
Catholick
Church
;
and
is
it
not
so
here
?
the
members
of
every
family
,
city
,
&c
▪
first
and
last
of
the
number
of
mankinde
;
and
so
when
the
Societies
are
dissolved
,
they
are
still
of
mankinde
:
and
doe
not
all
Societies
spring
of
mankinde
,
and
are
an
additament
and
increase
to
it
?
the
one
is
true
as
well
as
the
other
.
It
would
be
over
tedious
to
follow
this
parallel
so
farre
as
wee
might
,
these
may
be
sufficient
instances
to
guide
the
Reader
to
apply
whatever
else
is
,
or
can
be
said
in
this
kinde
from
the
common
nature
and
logicall
notions
under
which
the
Catholick
Church
visible
may
be
considered
:
What
is
said
that
may
more
properly
concern
the
case
under
the
notion
of
an
instituted
Society
,
we
shall
consider
in
due
place
.
Now
from
that
which
hath
been
said
,
the
Conclusion
,
as
we
conceive
,
doth
easily
and
naturally
follow
,
That
as
notwithstanding
all
that
is
said
,
there
is
no
Catholick
visible
Body
of
mankinde
,
to
which
,
or
to
the
Officers
wherof
is
given
the
power
and
priviledges
of
Civill
government
to
rule
this
Catholick
Body
,
either
as
one
totum
politicum
;
or
the
parts
of
it
,
Families
,
Cities
,
Kingdoms
in
communi
,
by
subordination
of
all
Societies
with
reference
to
the
whole
;
or
so
as
every
King
,
Major
,
&c.
should
be
an
Officer
of
the
whole
.
So
these
,
and
like
consequences
will
not
follow
in
respect
of
the
guides
,
government
,
priviledges
,
&c.
of
the
Catholick
Church
,
notwithstanding
all
that
is
said
from
these
considerations
of
unity
,
visibility
,
priority
of
nature
,
&c.
1
Object
.
If
any
shall
Object
,
the
case
is
not
alike
,
because
in
this
Catholick
Church
were
universall
Officers
set
up
,
as
the
Apostles
;
not
so
in
the
world
of
mankinde
.
Ans.
We
say
,
these
were
but
for
a
time
in
the
first
beginning
for
the
setting
up
of
the
fir●●
order
in
all
the
Churches
;
who
being
dead
,
there
is
none
to
succeed
them
in
that
respect
of
Catholick
power
.
Secondly
,
we
say
likewise
,
at
the
first
for
a
time
Adam
,
and
after
Noah
,
had
a
generall
power
over
mankinde
,
though
after
them
none
had
the
like
,
as
it
is
here
.
And
therefore
the
comparison
stil
runs
clear
.
2
Object
.
If
any
object
,
as
some
doe
,
in
answer
to
an
argument
somewhat
like
this
,
that
this
similitude
holds
not
,
because
there
is
not
that
externall
union
of
visible
communion
in
the
Common-wealths
of
the
world
,
as
in
the
Church
;
if
one
say
,
God
hath
placed
Kings
,
Dukes
in
the
Common-wealths
,
as
in
one
organicall
Body
who
have
one
head
,
who
giveth
influence
to
so
many
organs
of
head
,
feet
,
&c.
as
the
Apostle
speaketh
of
the
Body
the
Church
,
1
Cor.
12.
then
indeed
all
the
Common-wealths
of
the
world
would
make
but
one
body
.
Answ.
To
the
Scripture
alledged
we
shall
speak
after
,
here
onely
let
us
clear
our
parallel
.
And
first
take
the
similitude
as
it
is
stated
by
us
,
and
it
will
be
clear
.
First
,
compare
the
Catholick
number
of
mankinde
,
with
the
Catholick
Church
,
which
is
the
number
of
called
ones
,
and
then
there
is
as
much
externall
union
of
visible
communion
in
one
,
as
in
the
other
.
For
,
first
,
all
mankinde
may
and
ought
to
maintain
Civill
communion
one
with
another
,
in
all
Offices
of
humanity
,
for
the
common
good
of
the
whole
,
as
the
members
of
the
Catholick
Church
doe
,
or
ought
to
doe
;
and
common
humanity
,
and
the
command
of
the
Morall
Law
binds
thereto
,
as
well
as
Christianity
and
rules
of
the
Gospel
bind
here
.
Secondly
,
if
we
compare
Civill
societies
,
as
Families
,
Cities
,
Common-wealths
with
instituted
Churches
,
it
is
as
possible
,
and
as
well
the
duty
of
all
Common-wealths
in
the
world
,
by
principles
of
humanity
,
and
the
Morall
Law
in
all
mens
hearts
,
to
maintain
externall
union
of
leagues
of
friendship
,
and
communion
in
all
Offices
of
Civill
society
,
as
it
is
possible
,
and
the
duty
of
all
Church
societies
,
by
the
principles
of
Christianity
,
and
rule
of
the
Gospel
to
maintain
externall
union
of
visible
communion
in
the
duties
of
Church
society
.
Thirdly
,
(
not
to
dispute
here
whether
there
be
such
an
externall
union
of
visible
communion
amongst
all
the
visible
Churches
,
as
parts
of
the
Church
Catholick
)
if
the
reason
alledged
be
sufficient
to
prove
the
same
,
viz.
because
there
is
one
head
in
the
Church
,
who
giveth
influence
to
so
many
organs
of
head
,
feet
,
eyes
,
&c.
in
the
Church
.
Then
still
our
parallel
will
hold
;
for
as
this
Head
is
no
other
then
Christ
Jesus
in
his
spirituall
Kingdom
,
the
Church
giving
that
influence
named
;
so
the
same
Lord
that
is
King
and
Head
over
all
,
1
Chron.
29.
11.
Ephes.
1.
22.
doth
give
influence
to
many
organs
in
this
Body
of
Mankinde
,
even
to
all
Kings
,
Judges
,
Fathers
of
Families
.
And
Christ
is
the
same
in
respect
of
all
authority
,
power
,
gifts
,
administrations
Civill
,
&c.
to
this
Kingdome
of
Men
,
as
he
is
to
the
Kingdom
of
his
Church
of
all
power
spiritual
:
And
although
the
Church
be
a
Body
of
nearer
relation
to
Christ
,
then
the
Body
of
mankinde
;
yet
in
regard
of
a
common
relation
between
a
Head
and
Body
there
is
a
similitude
,
which
is
sufficient
in
this
case
.
There
is
one
thing
more
we
meet
withall
that
here
we
shall
remove
,
viz.
when
it
is
objected
that
the
Catholick
visible
Church
cannot
be
one
,
because
it
cannot
convent
together
in
one
Society
;
it
is
answered
usually
,
that
such
comming
together
in
one
society
is
not
needfull
,
because
as
a
Kingdom
may
be
one
,
though
all
parts
of
it
never
meet
together
,
having
the
same
King
,
Laws
,
&c.
And
as
an
Army
may
be
one
,
having
the
same
Generall
,
the
same
Laws
of
Discipline
,
the
same
cause
,
&c.
though
the
severall
Brigades
should
never
be
drawn
up
into
one
body
:
So
the
Catholick
Church
having
the
same
King
,
Laws
,
Cause
,
Enemies
,
is
but
one
though
it
never
meet
.
To
this
we
shall
here
Reply
so
far
as
it
lyes
in
our
way
:
1
As
all
union
is
for
communion
,
and
all
communion
flows
from
union
;
so
look
of
what
nature
the
union
is
,
such
,
and
no
other
is
the
communion
;
and
look
of
what
nature
the
communion
ought
to
be
,
of
like
nature
ought
the
union
to
be
,
else
it
will
not
reach
the
end
.
And
therefore
here
as
the
mysticall
spirituall
union
of
the
Catholick
Church
to
Christ
the
head
by
faith
,
and
to
one
another
by
love
,
is
sufficient
to
afford
spirituall
communion
with
the
same
:
So
unto
Politicall
communion
there
must
bee
a
Politicall
union
into
one
policy
.
And
as
the
nature
of
Politicall
communion
is
,
such
must
the
nature
of
the
union
be
,
that
it
may
reach
the
end
.
To
apply
this
,
a
Politicall
Church
is
instituted
of
Christ
for
communion
in
all
the
Worship
and
Ordinances
of
Christ
instituted
in
the
Gospel
,
as
the
Ministery
of
the
Word
,
the
Seales
and
Discipline
;
now
no
Church
as
One
can
have
communion
with
Christ
and
one
another
in
these
things
,
but
it
must
have
a
Politicall
union
suitable
thereunto
,
that
is
,
they
must
be
one
Society
that
can
at
least
meet
to
combine
together
.
And
therefore
if
all
Churches
make
one
Politicall
Body
,
for
Politicall
communion
,
it
must
be
such
an
union
as
will
reach
that
end
,
which
cannot
be
imagined
in
such
a
Catholick
totum
politicum
as
the
Catholick
Church
.
'T
is
true
,
distinct
Churches
(
as
distinct
Kingdoms
)
may
have
communion
in
some
politicall
priviledges
answerable
to
their
union
,
consisting
in
a
fraternall
relation
one
unto
another
,
yet
not
make
up
one
Body
Politicall
;
of
which
we
speak
.
Secondly
,
to
the
similitudes
brought
,
we
answer
,
This
whole
Kingdom
or
Army
is
properly
and
clearly
one
Politicall
Body
under
one
Politicall
head
the
King
or
General
,
as
stands
by
Covenant
as
members
of
that
one
Policy
;
and
those
who
have
right
to
choose
their
King
or
Generall
,
may
and
doe
some
time
or
other
convene
.
Let
the
like
be
shewed
in
the
Catholick
Church
,
that
all
Politicall
Churches
are
moulded
up
into
one
Politicall
Body
,
either
de
jure
,
or
de
facto
,
or
that
it
is
possible
(
as
the
case
stands
)
so
to
be
,
and
then
the
similitudes
would
be
of
some
use
.
Thirdly
,
in
a
Kingdom
or
Army
,
suppose
they
never
meet
,
yet
there
is
such
politicall
union
as
fully
reaches
the
politicall
communion
for
which
end
it
was
combined
,
viz.
that
they
should
enjoy
peace
and
justice
in
and
by
a
just
Government
,
or
by
the
protection
of
the
Army
.
But
if
such
a
politicall
Body
were
combined
to
have
such
communion
as
a
Church-communion
is
,
then
it
would
require
conventing
together
,
as
elswhere
we
shall
more
fully
manifest
:
For
our
parts
,
we
do
not
see
that
Christ
hath
ordained
the
whole
Catholick
church
as
One
,
to
have
politicall
communion
together
,
which
is
impossible
.
And
therefore
we
see
no
need
of
such
a
Politicall
combination
,
but
as
he
hath
ordained
a
Brotherly
communion
of
counsell
and
helpfulnesse
one
to
another
,
as
need
requires
;
so
a
spirituall
relation
and
brotherly
consociation
of
Churches
together
is
union
sufficient
for
such
a
communion
.
And
thus
far
we
have
endevored
to
take
away
all
those
arguments
which
are
built
upon
the
generall
considerations
of
the
unity
,
visibility
and
priority
of
the
Catholick
church
,
which
we
leave
to
the
consideration
and
examination
of
the
judicious
.
We
shall
now
,
(
as
the
Lord
shall
helpe
us
)
come
to
cleare
the
state
of
this
knotty
controversie
,
as
we
think
it
ought
to
be
stated
and
carryed
.
Viz.
What
is
that
form
of
a
Politicall
Church
which
Jesus
Christ
in
the
Gospel
hath
instituted
and
appointed
as
the
subject
of
Church
power
of
government
,
and
administration
of
all
the
ordinances
of
the
Gospel
for
actuall
communion
with
Christ
,
and
one
with
another
therein
?
And
here
give
us
leave
before
we
enter
into
the
question
it self
,
to
make
a
little
further
use
of
our
former
similitude
for
illustration
;
and
then
we
will
shew
where
the
ne
plus
ultra
,
as
we
conceive
must
stand
.
It
hath
been
shewed
in
respect
of
the
body
of
mankinde
,
that
although
much
may
be
said
for
the
unity
,
visibility
,
and
priority
thereof
before
any
parts
of
it
,
yet
no
reason
will
inforce
that
it
is
the
first
subject
of
Civill
power
,
&c.
in
respect
of
actuall
administration
,
and
immediate
enjoyment
thereof
,
and
so
here
in
respect
of
the
Church
.
We
will
now
add
but
this
one
thing
more
,
that
notwithstanding
all
such
reasons
,
yet
in
execution
for
the
good
of
the
whole
,
the
least
civill
society
,
yea
,
a
family
may
be
,
and
is
the
first
subject
of
civill
power
,
and
priviledges
of
civill
government
;
so
the
least
politicall
Church
society
may
be
the
first
subject
of
these
Keys
of
Church
power
in
the
exercise
thereof
,
and
of
immediate
communion
in
all
visible
ordinances
,
and
we
think
that
there
by
Divine
institution
it
is
seated
,
and
the
edification
and
perfection
of
the
Catholick
Church
may
best
be
attained
thereby
.
Concerning
Families
,
we
see
no
footsteps
in
the
propagation
of
mankinde
from
Adam
and
Noah
,
of
any
soveraign
or
universall
government
,
further
then
in
the
first
Fathers
of
mankinde
,
after
whom
as
they
increased
,
families
went
out
,
and
combining
made
cities
,
and
so
Common-wealths
by
mutuall
consent
,
as
in
Gen.
10.
and
other
Stories
appear
,
except
by
the
tyrannous
usurpations
of
some
as
Nimrod
,
the
rest
were
brought
under
;
and
this
no
doubt
amongst
any
free
people
is
still
the
most
orderly
,
just
and
safe
way
of
erecting
all
forms
of
civill
government
,
Families
to
combine
into
Townes
,
Cities
,
Kingdomes
,
or
Aristocraticall
States
.
But
here
some
will
say
;
If
so
,
that
according
to
this
similitude
,
a
particular
congregation
may
be
the
first
Church
that
have
the
Keys
of
Church
power
,
and
Church
communion
;
then
as
families
should
combine
into
Towns
and
Cities
,
and
they
into
greater
Common-wealths
,
for
the
good
of
all
mankinde
;
so
here
these
first
Churches
may
not
stand
independently
,
but
ought
to
combine
into
greater
Bodies
,
till
they
come
to
be
one
whole
Church
;
to
this
we
say
,
this
will
not
follow
upon
this
evident
reason
,
because
civill
societies
and
government
thereof
,
is
herein
left
to
rules
of
humane
prudence
by
the
Lord
and
governor
of
the
whole
world
;
and
therefore
may
admit
various
forms
of
Government
,
various
Laws
and
Constitutions
,
various
priviledges
,
&c.
according
as
men
shall
conceive
best
for
themselves
,
so
they
be
not
against
the
common
morall
rules
of
equity
,
and
the
good
of
those
Societies
:
but
here
in
the
Kingdom
of
Christ
as
wee
must
attend
what
kinde
of
Church
he
hath
instituted
,
so
we
must
cleave
to
such
rules
,
priviledges
,
and
forms
of
government
and
administrations
as
he
hath
ordained
,
not
presuming
to
goe
one
step
beyond
the
same
.
And
hence
it
is
not
in
the
power
of
any
Church
to
alienate
the
power
,
rights
,
or
priviledges
Christ
have
set
in
the
same
,
or
to
mould
up
any
other
politicall
Churches
then
he
hath
appointed
;
and
here
we
conceive
stands
immovably
the
ne
plus
ultra
of
this
similitude
between
the
visible
Church
,
and
the
estate
of
mankinde
in
reference
to
power
and
government
,
&c.
All
which
things
well
weighed
,
to
us
seems
to
overthrow
all
such
intermediate
forms
of
Churches
,
or
the
usuall
Churches
,
as
Mr.
Ball
calls
the
same
;
as
,
Classicall
,
Provinciall
,
Diocesan
,
Nationall
,
Patriarchicall
,
&c.
which
we
see
not
how
according
to
the
rule
of
Christ
they
can
be
constituted
either
descendendo
,
from
the
common
nature
of
the
Catholick
Church
;
or
ascendendo
,
from
the
combination
of
particulars
,
except
institution
can
bee
found
for
the
same
.
We
find
indeed
,
that
some
endevor
to
build
such
forms
upon
the
foundation
of
Morall
principles
,
and
the
Law
of
nature
;
as
,
That
God
hath
given
government
to
be
over
a
multitude
,
and
that
of
many
Societies
,
as
well
as
persons
,
that
one
Society
may
not
suffer
as
well
as
one
person
;
and
that
therefore
must
be
given
of
the
God
of
grace
to
a
society
and
multitude
of
little
Churches
power
of
externall
government
.
To
which
we
answer
;
1
That
there
is
no
such
principle
in
nature
that
generally
binds
free
Societies
to
submit
to
one
common
government
;
must
many
Kingdoms
,
&c.
by
consequence
all
kingdoms
combine
in
government
,
lest
one
kingdome
bee
hurt
,
●
.
must
Moab
,
Ammon
,
Edom
,
Tyre
,
Sydon
,
Judea
,
&c.
being
so
contiguous
in
near
vicinity
to
each
other
,
combine
in
one
government
?
2
Is
it
not
as
suitable
to
morality
and
reason
,
in
such
combinations
,
that
they
set
up
One
to
rule
over
them
,
when
many
grow
ignorant
,
evill
,
or
heady
,
to
preserve
peace
,
and
prevent
wrong
,
as
to
set
up
many
?
3
Did
Abraham
,
Lot
,
Melchisedeck
,
and
such
family
Churches
,
walk
against
grounds
of
morality
and
nature
,
that
did
not
so
combine
?
We
might
add
more
,
but
forbear
;
but
we
could
desire
our
dear
Brethren
to
be
wary
of
scattering
such
principles
;
for
though
in
the
matters
of
the
Church
,
and
Worship
,
and
Government
of
Christ
,
grace
doth
not
destroy
nature
,
yet
look
as
a
particular
Church
constitution
and
government
was
never
erected
by
the
Law
of
nature
;
but
Divine
institution
,
so
for
the
governing
of
many
over
one
,
why
should
there
not
be
the
like
institution
?
But
to
come
more
near
to
the
case
it self
,
we
shall
endeavour
to
clear
two
things
:
1.
That
there
is
no
Catholick
politicall
Church
society
instituted
by
Christ
,
to
which
the
actuall
administration
and
participation
of
Church
government
and
communion
in
the
instituted
ordinances
of
Christ
,
is
given
as
to
the
first
subject
thereof
.
2.
That
the
true
form
of
all
Church
societies
instituted
by
Christ
,
to
which
he
hath
given
the
actuall
administration
and
immediate
participation
of
Church
government
,
and
all
other
instituted
ordinances
,
as
the
subject
thereof
,
is
onely
Congregationall
.
First
,
concerning
the
first
,
to
make
our
discourse
more
distinct
and
plain
,
we
shall
premise
here
,
that
we
doe
not
here
at
all
take
in
,
or
respect
that
question
about
the
power
of
the
Keys
,
whether
it
be
in
the
fraternity
or
guides
,
(
we
shall
God
willing
have
a
fit
place
to
speak
something
of
it
)
but
here
(
that
we
may
not
intermingle
things
)
we
look
onely
at
the
true
subject
,
in
which
,
and
unto
which
the
actuall
and
immediate
dispensation
and
participation
of
Church
government
and
outward
ordinances
is
given
by
the
institution
of
the
Gospel
.
And
here
we
first
reason
thus
,
Such
a
Church
society
as
Christ
instituted
,
the
Apostles
of
Christ
constituted
and
governed
in
:
But
the
Apostles
never
constituted
such
a
Catholick
church
society
,
or
governed
it
in
such
a
manner
as
is
said
:
Ergo.
The
Proposition
is
evident
,
because
the
Apostles
were
to
do
whatsoever
Christ
commanded
in
Matth.
28.
20.
and
were
sufficiently
furnished
with
power
and
wisdome
so
to
doe
:
Besides
,
the
Apostles
having
all
power
from
Christ
as
hee
received
from
the
Father
,
John
20.
and
the
whole
number
of
beleevers
being
then
at
the
fewest
,
there
was
never
since
such
an
opportunity
or
possibility
to
constitute
such
a
Church
,
if
Christ
Jesus
had
instituted
such
a
thing
.
The
assumption
or
second
part
of
the
reason
is
proved
thus
,
If
the
Apostles
ever
constituted
and
administred
in
such
a
Church
catholick
,
it
was
either
that
at
Jerusalem
mentioned
Acts
1
,
&
2.
&c.
or
that
assembly
that
met
,
Acts
15.
(
for
we
meet
with
no
other
that
can
with
any
colour
of
reason
bee
supposed
)
But
neither
of
these
were
such
a
constituted
Church
;
Ergo.
1
Concerning
the
Church
named
,
Acts
1.
carryed
on
,
Acts
2.
&c.
we
freely
grant
it
was
a
constituted
Church
,
wherein
the
Apostles
with
Elders
and
Deacons
afterward
chosen
did
govern
,
for
as
it
is
called
a
Church
,
Acts
2.
47.
so
likewise
we
see
there
were
in
it
elections
,
Act.
1.
&
6.
and
administrations
of
instituted
ordinances
of
worship
,
Acts
2.
41
,
42.
admission
of
members
,
Chap.
2.
41
,
47.
and
by
the
same
reason
there
might
have
been
excommunication
also
:
But
that
this
Church
was
not
the
Catholick
Church
,
we
prove
thus
:
If
it
were
the
Catholick
church
,
then
it
was
such
either
in
respect
of
the
whole
essence
of
the
Catholick
church
,
or
in
respect
of
representation
;
but
neither
ways
:
Ergo.
The
first
it
could
not
be
,
because
it
consisted
at
the
first
but
of
120.
which
was
a
very
small
part
of
the
Catholick
number
of
visible
beleevers
;
for
,
1
Cor.
15.
6.
there
were
above
500
Brethren
to
whom
Christ
appeared
at
once
,
which
was
but
some
few
weeks
before
,
besides
all
that
in
the
Jewish
Church
were
converted
and
baptized
by
John
,
which
were
very
many
;
yea
,
if
we
speak
of
the
Catholick
church
,
properly
all
the
Jewish
Church
,
not
yet
dissolved
,
were
part
of
the
Catholick
church
of
that
age
visible
.
Lastly
,
if
it
had
been
the
Catholick
church
,
beleevers
being
already
of
it
,
could
not
be
said
to
be
added
to
this
;
as
,
Acts
5.
13
,
14.
Secondly
,
it
was
not
Catholick
in
respect
of
representation
,
for
if
so
,
then
in
respect
of
the
Apostles
onely
as
the
Catholick
guides
,
or
in
respect
of
the
whole
assembly
with
them
,
Acts
1.
not
the
first
,
for
then
the
Apostles
onely
should
have
had
power
to
set
apart
Barnabas
and
Matthias
,
but
it
is
evident
that
that
election
was
by
Peter
himself
committed
to
,
and
acted
by
the
whole
company
called
the
Brethren
and
Disciples
,
Acts
1.
15
,
16
,
26.
where
it
appears
that
as
he
spake
to
all
,
so
it
was
concluded
with
the
common
suffrages
of
all
.
Secondly
,
if
so
,
because
the
Apostles
were
Catholick
guides
,
then
where-ever
they
met
was
a
Catholick
church
,
yea
,
where
two
or
three
,
or
any
one
of
them
was
,
there
was
the
Catholick
representative
church
,
and
so
many
such
churches
,
for
any
two
or
one
had
the
catholick
power
as
well
as
all
;
Paul
ordains
,
rules
,
and
orders
of
discipline
in
all
the
churches
,
as
well
as
if
all
the
Apostles
had
met
,
1
Cor.
7.
17.
1
Cor.
16.
1.
2
That
assembly
was
not
the
representative
catholick
church
,
because
,
first
,
there
were
the
women
in
the
same
,
now
women
are
no
way
capable
of
being
messengers
to
represent
churches
:
secondly
,
besides
,
these
could
not
be
representative
messengers
from
other
churches
,
because
this
was
the
first
constituted
church
;
we
see
no
colour
of
reason
that
there
were
any
other
constituted
visible
churches
before
this
.
Lastly
,
all
the
actions
of
that
Church
mentioned
,
especially
those
in
Acts
2.
41
,
42.
of
admission
of
members
,
baptism
,
word
,
seales
,
fellowship
day
by
day
in
such
ordinances
,
choice
of
Deacons
,
&c.
speak
aloud
against
a
representative
Church
,
we
should
rather
have
heard
of
constitutions
,
censures
,
&c.
from
such
a
representative
Catholick
church
of
generall
counsell
.
Object
.
We
are
not
ignorant
what
is
said
to
the
contrary
,
viz.
That
it
was
the
Catholick
Church
,
because
they
elected
a
Catholick
officer
for
the
whole
Church
,
viz.
an
Apostle
.
Ans.
To
which
we
answer
;
1
All
the
Catholick
church
and
guides
thereof
had
no
power
so
to
do
,
no
more
then
a
particular
church
,
being
a
case
reserved
to
Christ
himself
,
else
Pauls
argument
to
prove
his
Apostleship
had
not
been
strong
;
because
he
was
not
called
by
man
,
but
by
Christ
himself
,
and
had
seen
the
Lord
,
&c.
Gal.
1.
1.
1
Cor.
9.
1.
2
The
act
of
the
Church
was
onely
a
preparatory
act
thereunto
with
an
after
consent
:
the
election
was
properly
done
immediately
by
a
lot
,
and
what
was
done
might
as
well
be
done
in
the
first
particular
Church
guided
by
the
infallible
spirit
of
the
Apostles
,
as
by
the
Catholick
Church
it self
.
Object
.
Secondly
,
it
is
objected
,
Many
of
these
were
men
of
Galilee
,
which
by
their
habitation
could
not
pertain
to
the
Church
in
Jerusalem
.
Answ.
True
,
the
Apostles
and
others
were
of
Galilee
,
but
they
had
forsaken
all
to
follow
Christ
,
and
were
commanded
by
Christ
to
remain
a
time
at
Jerusalem
,
and
then
to
goe
forth
to
Samaria
,
Judea
,
and
the
utmost
parts
of
the
earth
,
Acts
1.
4
,
8.
and
therfore
no
Church
relation
in
Galilee
could
hinder
them
from
joyning
in
this
first
constituted
Church
,
or
give
any
colour
that
they
came
as
members
representative
from
any
Churches
in
Galilee
.
And
so
much
for
the
plea
for
a
Catholick
church
from
Acts
1.
&c.
Now
concerning
that
which
is
supposed
of
a
Catholick
church
representative
in
Act.
15.
If
it
were
such
,
then
in
respect
of
the
Apostles
(
the
catholick
Officers
)
onely
,
or
in
respect
of
the
body
of
the
Assembly
also
,
but
in
neither
respects
:
Ergo.
1
▪
Not
the
first
,
for
then
as
was
said
,
any
one
Apostle
may
make
a
representative
Catholick
church
,
having
the
whole
power
,
as
much
as
all
of
them
together
;
for
though
they
would
meet
oft
to
consult
and
assist
one
another
;
yet
not
for
defect
of
power
in
any
one
;
and
we
think
our
brethren
here
will
not
say
it
was
in
respect
of
the
Apostles
alone
,
supposing
here
they
acted
rather
as
Elders
with
the
rest
,
then
out
of
their
Apostolicall
power
.
2
Not
in
respect
of
the
whole
Assembly
,
for
then
that
assembly
must
consist
of
the
messengers
of
all
the
particular
Churches
,
and
the
decrees
should
have
been
directed
to
all
the
Churches
;
but
neither
of
these
can
appear
;
For
,
first
,
wee
read
of
no
other
messengers
but
those
from
Antioch
,
and
how
to
evince
more
then
the
Scriptures
reveal
,
is
hard
.
Secondly
,
if
we
look
back
and
consider
how
far
the
Gospel
was
spread
before
this
assembly
,
it
will
appear
very
strange
and
absurd
to
suppose
such
a
thing
;
for
Paul
had
been
in
Arabia
before
ever
he
came
to
Ierusalem
,
Gal.
1.
17.
and
when
he
and
Barnabas
were
sent
out
from
Antioch
,
Acts
13.
they
went
to
severall
Islands
and
Countreys
,
as
Cyprus
,
Paphos
,
Salamis
,
&c.
besides
what
other
places
scattered
Christians
and
Apostles
had
preached
in
:
now
there
is
no
probability
of
messengers
▪
sent
from
all
these
places
.
Secondly
,
the
decrees
were
expresly
directed
to
the
Gentiles
beleeving
,
in
Antioch
,
Syria
,
and
Cilicia
,
where
it
seems
this
question
had
troubled
the
minds
of
the
Disciples
,
Acts
15.
23
,
24.
which
was
far
short
of
the
Catholick
church
;
neither
is
it
proved
that
the
Churches
of
Syria
and
Cilicia
had
any
messengers
there
,
much
lesse
that
all
the
Churches
had
their
messengers
.
Object
.
But
it
is
said
,
they
might
have
had
their
messengers
there
,
if
they
would
,
and
therefore
they
were
bound
to
the
decrees
as
of
a
generall
Councell
.
Answ.
It
must
first
be
proved
,
that
all
Churches
had
lawfull
summons
to
send
their
messengers
to
that
Assembly
,
before
there
can
be
laid
any
blame
on
them
for
neglecting
the
same
,
or
they
be
all
tyed
to
the
decrees
of
such
an
Assembly
as
a
generall
Councell
,
which
seems
to
us
not
so
much
as
probable
,
much
lesse
to
be
proved
by
any
where
the
Scripture
is
so
silent
.
Arg.
2.
Every
politicall
Body
is
constituted
by
the
combination
of
all
the
members
into
a
Society
.
But
Christ
hath
not
instituted
that
the
Catholick
church
should
combine
into
a
Society
.
Ergo.
Propos.
Proved
,
because
there
can
be
no
instances
given
of
any
free
Society
,
civill
or
sacred
,
that
was
under
policy
,
but
that
it
arose
from
combination
.
How
came
Israel
to
be
one
Nationall
church
,
but
by
a
National
covenant
?
and
that
before
it
had
Officers
;
or
how
comes
any
nationall
,
provinciall
,
classicall
Church
that
are
pleaded
for
to
be
such
,
but
by
some
such
combination
?
Why
is
this
Church
of
this
Classis
not
of
another
but
by
combination
?
Secondly
,
in
a
politicall
body
,
the
whole
hath
power
to
order
every
part
,
but
this
power
among
persons
that
are
free
,
is
onely
by
combination
.
Assump.
Proved
:
first
,
because
Christ
never
instituted
that
which
is
impossible
,
as
this
is
,
for
the
Catholick
visible
Church
in
every
age
so
to
doe
.
Secondly
,
Christ
ordained
combination
for
communion
in
his
Worship
,
but
this
communion
also
is
impossible
to
the
Catholick
church
as
one
:
Ergo.
Thirdly
,
corrupt
Churches
are
visible
Churches
,
but
it
is
hard
for
us
to
beleeve
,
or
any
to
prove
that
Christ
hath
instituted
such
combination
of
all
Churches
,
Asian
,
African
,
European
,
American
,
corrupt
and
uncorrupt
,
for
prudent
men
may
easily
foresee
the
heavy
consequents
thereof
.
Argum.
3.
Every
Politicall
Church
by
the
institution
of
Christ
hath
power
to
elect
her
own
Pastor
or
Pastors
over
it
.
But
the
Catholick
visible
Church
hath
not
such
power
:
Ergo.
Proposit
.
Proved
.
This
all
Scripture
examples
shew
,
that
every
Church
or
flock
of
beleevers
had
her
Pastor
,
Act.
14.
Tit.
1.
Secondly
,
(
according
to
our
Brethrens
principles
)
if
a
particular
Church
may
choose
a
Pastor
,
much
more
the
Catholick
,
because
all
priviledges
are
primarily
given
to
the
Catholick
church
,
and
what
belongs
to
the
part
of
a
similar
Body
,
(
as
a
part
)
that
much
more
belongs
to
the
whole
.
Assump.
Proved
first
,
If
the
Catholick
church
may
choose
Pastors
over
it
,
then
they
may
make
Apostles
,
because
Catholick
Pastors
over
the
Catholick
Church
.
Secondly
,
the
Reasons
against
an
universall
Bishop
are
strong
here
,
as
that
their
office
is
not
described
in
the
Word
,
nor
their
power
able
to
reach
all
Churches
.
If
it
be
said
,
that
the
Catholick
church
can
choose
her
Pastors
in
the
parts
or
particular
Societies
,
which
are
Pastors
of
the
Catholick
church
,
though
not
Catholick
Pastors
of
the
Catholick
church
.
Answ.
If
this
be
meant
of
the
particular
Churches
choosing
Pastors
over
themselves
,
who
are
in
some
respects
for
the
good
of
the
whole
,
(
as
being
partes
partium
,
and
so
partes
totius
▪
)
then
they
come
to
our
hand
,
for
thus
it
appears
that
there
is
no
Catholick
totum
,
that
is
the
subject
of
officers
but
in
its
parts
.
But
the
question
is
,
Whether
all
particular
Churches
having
the
officers
in
them
,
do
make
one
political
Body
or
Catholick
church
,
and
so
have
power
to
choose
Catholick
Pastors
.
Argum.
4.
Christ
Jesus
instituted
no
such
politicall
Body
as
destroys
Church
policy
.
But
such
a
Catholick
church
politicall
destroys
policy
:
Ergo.
Assump.
Proved
:
because
it
swallows
up
the
power
not
onely
of
all
Churches
congregationall
,
but
all
other
forms
of
Churches
,
by
taking
the
power
of
excommunication
from
them
;
for
the
power
of
excommunication
is
seated
by
Christ
in
that
Church
,
from
which
there
can
be
justly
no
appeal
,
for
Matth.
18.
the
power
of
excommunication
is
seated
in
such
a
Church
,
as
whatsoever
it
binds
on
earth
,
is
bound
in
heaven
by
the
highest
Judge
,
in
the
highest
Court
;
and
from
the
sentence
of
this
highest
court
and
Judge
,
how
can
there
be
any
appeal
?
But
now
supposing
such
a
Catholick
church
having
power
of
excommunication
,
and
that
as
the
highest
Church
,
hence
no
inferior
Church
can
binde
on
earth
,
so
as
that
the
same
is
bound
in
heaven
,
seeing
appeales
may
be
made
from
them
to
an
higher
power
on
earth
.
Object
.
If
it
be
said
that
the
sentence
of
an
inferior
Judge
,
proceeding
rightly
(
as
in
an
inferior
Sanhedrin
)
is
ratified
in
heaven
,
yet
may
we
appeale
from
him
.
Answ.
We
deny
that
the
sentence
of
every
civill
Court
doth
binde
in
heaven
(
in
the
sense
of
our
Saviour
:
)
for
every
civil
Court
hath
not
this
promise
of
binding
and
loosing
,
the
power
of
the
Keys
not
belonging
to
the
civill
Magistrate
.
Secondly
,
suppose
there
were
such
a
binding
in
civill
Courts
,
and
appeals
may
be
yet
made
from
them
,
yet
this
is
because
there
is
supposed
a
supreme
Court
in
being
,
to
which
the
appeale
may
be
prosecuted
and
there
determined
,
(
as
in
the
highest
Sanhedrin
of
Israel
.
)
But
there
is
not
in
the
Church
,
nor
like
to
be
,
such
a
supreme
Court
where
such
appeals
may
be
ended
:
Ergo.
Object.
2
▪
If
it
be
said
,
that
what
a
particular
Church
binds
on
earth
is
bound
in
heaven
,
except
they
erre
,
but
then
appeals
may
be
made
,
and
their
power
is
gone
.
Answ.
On
this
ground
the
universall
Church
should
not
have
power
to
bind
on
earth
so
as
in
heaven
without
appeales
,
for
they
may
erre
;
and
that
not
onely
rarely
but
frequently
;
witnesse
the
complaint
of
Nazianzen
and
others
of
the
time
passed
;
yea
,
they
may
be
as
much
inclined
to
erre
▪
considering
the
greatest
part
of
Churches
in
the
world
are
for
the
most
part
corrupt
,
yea
,
though
they
may
have
better
eyes
,
yet
they
are
further
from
the
mark
;
if
particular
Churches
have
no
power
of
excommunication
,
because
they
may
erre
,
be
corrupt
,
be
partiall
,
or
be
divided
;
upon
the
same
consideration
,
neither
Classicall
,
Nationall
,
or
oecumeniall
Councells
have
any
such
power
;
for
they
may
erre
,
grow
corrupt
,
be
partiall
,
and
be
miserably
divided
,
as
well
as
a
congregationall
Church
;
other
Churches
may
admonish
in
case
of
scandall
,
and
counsell
,
when
a
particular
congregation
wants
light
;
and
moderate
(
if
desired
)
in
case
of
difference
;
but
still
the
power
is
in
the
particular
Church
.
Other
arguments
might
be
added
,
but
seeing
this
controversie
,
as
we
hope
,
will
be
more
fully
and
purposely
disputed
by
a
farre
better
hand
,
therefore
we
shall
fall
to
the
consideration
of
such
Scriptures
,
and
some
few
generall
Arguments
which
we
meet
withall
in
Mr.
Ball
briefly
propounded
,
and
in
divers
other
Authors
more
largely
insisted
upon
;
which
if
the
Lord
be
pleased
to
helpe
us
to
vindicate
and
clear
up
,
we
think
other
reasons
and
Scriptures
of
lesse
force
will
fall
of
themselves
.
And
first
we
finde
,
Cant.
6.
4.
&c.
to
prove
the
whole
Catholick
church
visible
to
be
one
Ministeriall
Body
,
because
it
is
called
One
,
compared
to
an
Army
terrible
with
Banners
,
in
respect
of
the
order
of
Discipline
,
and
described
as
being
an
organicall
Body
having
eyes
,
hair
,
teeth
,
&c.
Answ.
1
Theologia
Symbolica
non
est
argumentativa
,
except
it
can
be
made
clear
that
the
parable
is
applyed
according
to
the
true
scope
of
it
,
and
no
further
,
which
here
is
very
hard
to
evince
:
we
know
the
whole
Book
of
the
Canticles
is
variously
applyed
by
good
Interpreters
,
Brightman
(
none
of
the
meanest
in
this
kinde
of
Vid.
Brightm
.
An.
in
Loc.
Scriptures
)
applyes
this
place
to
the
church
of
Geneva
,
and
the
times
of
purer
Churches
to
arise
after
it
,
which
are
said
to
be
terrible
as
an
Army
with
Banners
;
not
in
respect
of
Discipline
,
but
in
respect
of
warlike
power
,
whereby
that
state
of
the
church
shall
defend
it self
.
2
But
suppose
that
it
is
a
description
of
the
catholick
church
visible
,
yet
it
cannot
be
a
sufficient
argument
that
it
is
one
Ministeriall
church
:
For
,
first
,
the
catholick
church
is
the
same
in
all
ages
,
and
therefore
by
this
reason
it
was
a
catholick
Ministeriall
body
,
as
well
in
the
days
from
Adam
to
Abraham
,
&c.
as
in
the
New
Testament
▪
Secondly
,
by
this
argument
we
may
prove
Christ
the
head
and
husband
of
the
church
to
be
an
organicall
body
,
as
he
is
the
Head
of
the
Church
,
for
Cant.
5.
10
,
11.
&c.
the
Church
doth
allegorically
describe
the
beauty
and
excellency
of
Christ
,
in
severall
organs
and
parts
:
but
we
suppose
though
Christ
Jesus
in
his
humane
nature
hath
members
,
yet
the
scope
of
the
Church
is
not
at
all
to
set
forth
the
members
of
his
humane
body
,
but
the
glorious
excellencies
,
and
spirituall
perfections
of
Christ
as
the
Redeemer
and
Saviour
of
his
Church
,
according
to
the
manner
of
Lovers
,
who
are
taken
with
the
beauty
of
their
spouses
in
all
their
members
;
When
the
spouse
saith
,
Cant.
1.
1.
Let
him
kisse
me
with
the
kisses
of
his
mouth
;
it
were
too
grosse
to
apply
it
to
the
humanity
of
Christ
,
or
to
argue
from
thence
that
Christ
the
husband
of
his
Church
is
an
organicall
body
.
Thirdly
and
lastly
,
when
the
Church
is
called
One
,
the
onely
one
of
her
Mother
;
though
it
's
true
she
is
one
,
it
seems
rather
to
set
out
her
excellency
as
rare
,
and
but
one
,
then
her
unity
:
and
so
the
other
descriptions
all
tend
to
set
forth
her
beauty
in
the
eye
and
esteem
of
Christ
;
neither
is
it
any
thing
that
the
Church
is
compared
to
an
Army
terrible
with
banners
,
for
in
the
same
Chap.
vers
.
the
last
,
she
is
compared
to
the
company
of
Mahanaim
,
or
two
Armies
,
(
which
is
all
one
)
for
the
company
of
Mahanaim
consisted
of
two
Armies
,
Gen.
32.
1
,
2
,
3.
where
Jacobs
host
meeting
an
host
of
Angels
,
he
calls
the
place
Mahanaim
,
or
,
two
Hosts
;
and
therefore
we
may
as
well
say
the
Catholick
church
is
terrible
,
with
two
Armies
of
Banners
,
as
one
.
Answ.
A
second
and
chief
Scripture
we
meet
withall
in
divers
Authors
is
1
Cor.
12.
12
,
13.
&c.
Whence
the
reason
stands
thus
:
That
church
wherein
Apostles
,
Prophets
,
Teachers
,
&c.
are
set
,
is
an
organicall
Church
.
But
those
are
set
in
the
Catholick
visible
Church
;
Ergo.
For
the
better
clearing
of
this
Scripture
,
it
is
needfull
,
that
we
attend
the
scope
of
the
Apostle
,
who
comming
now
to
another
branch
of
the
things
this
Church
had
written
unto
him
about
,
Chap.
7.
1.
&
8.
1.
&
12.
1.
and
this
about
spirituall
gifts
,
wherein
they
abounded
,
Chap.
1.
7.
being
the
occasion
of
all
their
contentions
and
disorders
,
Chap.
1.
12
,
13.
hence
he
is
studious
the
more
to
re-unite
them
again
,
Chap.
12.
13.
and
to
direct
them
how
to
improve
their
gifts
orderly
to
edification
,
Chap.
14.
and
in
this
Chapter
he
perswades
their
minds
to
unity
who
were
divided
,
partly
through
pride
in
their
own
gifts
;
partly
,
by
disdain
of
others
not
so
gifted
;
hence
he
puts
them
in
minde
;
1
What
once
they
were
following
dumb
idols
.
2
That
all
gifts
are
from
the
free
dispensation
of
God
,
and
that
one
God
,
one
Lord
,
one
Spirit
.
3
That
God
in
his
wisdom
hath
dispensed
great
variety
of
gifts
,
operations
and
administrations
.
4
That
all
are
given
to
profit
withal
,
and
these
things
he
illustrates
by
a
simile
taken
from
a
naturall
body
,
which
having
largely
presented
and
applyed
to
this
Church
,
vers.
27.
he
concludes
with
the
variety
of
administrations
in
such
things
wherein
they
so
much
differed
,
Chap.
1.
12
,
13.
God
hath
set
,
saith
he
,
in
the
Church
not
onely
Apostles
,
or
Prophets
,
or
tongues
,
&c.
but
all
these
;
are
all
Apostles
?
are
all
Prophets
,
&
c
?
no
,
but
the
wisdom
of
God
hath
given
you
variety
of
these
gifts
and
administrations
;
and
therefore
,
Chap.
3.
to
quiet
them
,
he
saith
,
Paul
an
Apostle
,
Apollos
an
Evangelist
,
&c.
all
are
yours
;
and
as
this
is
the
scope
of
the
Apostle
,
so
we
see
nothing
in
the
Chapter
but
is
appliable
to
Corinth
in
particular
,
yea
,
applyed
unto
them
by
the
Apostle
,
as
what
he
spake
vers.
22.
of
one
body
,
he
applyes
to
them
,
vers.
27.
what
he
spake
,
vers.
28.
of
Apostles
,
and
other
gifts
set
in
the
Church
,
he
applyes
also
to
them
,
Chap.
14.
whereas
he
speaks
of
the
exercise
of
divers
gifts
in
that
Church
,
when
the
whole
Church
came
together
,
vers.
23
,
so
he
speaks
the
same
of
himself
an
Apostle
,
vers.
6.
When
I
come
,
&c
▪
We
take
notice
of
divers
reasons
alledged
from
the
Chapter
,
that
he
spake
of
the
Catholick
church
,
but
they
doe
not
inforce
it
;
for
grant
such
things
are
true
of
the
Catholick
church
in
a
sense
,
viz.
that
in
it
God
works
all
in
all
,
in
it
are
diversities
of
gifts
,
&c.
yet
the
Apostles
scope
is
to
speak
to
this
Church
,
as
hath
been
shewed
,
and
all
are
truly
applyable
unto
it
,
this
Church
came
behinde
in
no
good
gift
,
Chap.
1.
7.
this
Church
was
one
body
,
vers.
27.
and
baptized
into
one
body
,
whether
Jews
or
Gentiles
,
bond
or
free
,
the
members
of
this
Church
needed
the
helpe
one
of
another
,
must
not
make
schismes
in
the
Body
,
must
care
one
for
another
,
&c.
yea
,
Apostles
as
well
as
other
gifts
were
in
the
church
,
1
Cor.
3.
1.
1
Cor.
14.
6.
So
that
from
the
scope
and
drift
of
the
Apostle
,
all
these
Offices
and
gifts
might
be
,
and
were
set
in
Corinth
,
and
therefore
this
place
will
not
evince
a
Catholick
organicall
body
;
yet
we
mean
not
that
Apostles
were
wedged
in
here
,
but
they
were
set
also
in
every
church
,
as
also
Teachers
are
in
every
church
,
but
each
according
to
the
nature
of
the
Office
,
the
one
limited
,
the
other
not
.
Secondly
,
we
deny
not
but
in
this
discourse
the
Apostle
also
,
vers.
12
,
13.
intendeth
the
whole
mysticall
body
of
Christ
,
which
is
one
Christ
,
neither
doe
we
deny
that
these
gifts
of
Apostles
,
Prophets
,
&c.
are
given
to
this
Church
,
but
this
will
not
prove
it
to
be
an
organicall
Church
.
For
what
is
this
body
of
Christ
,
this
one
Christ
into
whom
all
are
baptized
,
&c.
It
is
properly
the
whole
company
of
true
beleevers
in
all
ages
,
and
so
containes
the
invisible
body
of
Christ
;
which
Catholick
body
of
all
ages
,
cannot
properly
make
an
organicall
body
:
and
be
it
so
,
that
this
body
is
visible
,
having
visible
ordinances
,
baptized
and
drunk
into
one
body
,
yet
the
Apostle
respects
the
reall
union
of
all
the
members
to
Christ
;
and
therefore
Interpreters
understand
spirituall
and
effectuall
baptism
,
containing
the
inward
vertue
with
the
outward
sign
.
Again
,
the
Apostles
were
fit
for
the
gathering
in
of
the
elect
amongst
all
the
heathen
nations
,
but
that
proves
not
all
these
elect
(
who
also
are
a
part
of
Christs
sheep
,
John
10.
16.
)
were
an
organicall
Church
,
or
a
part
of
it
,
till
called
and
added
to
the
Church
.
In
a
word
,
Apostles
,
Prophets
,
&c.
were
given
to
,
and
set
in
the
mysticall
body
of
Christ
,
as
the
chief
object
and
end
for
whose
sake
and
good
,
they
were
intentionally
ordained
of
Christ
,
but
not
set
in
it
as
one
organicall
body
,
for
the
actuall
and
immediate
administration
of
the
visible
ordinances
of
Christ
to
it
,
but
thus
to
it
,
as
gathered
into
such
Church
societies
as
the
Lord
hath
instituted
for
that
end
,
and
in
this
sense
we
agree
with
learned
Mr.
Rutherford
libro
of
the
right
of
Presbyt.
pag.
291.
Ask
(
saith
he
)
to
what
end
,
and
to
what
first
principall
subject
hath
the
Lord
given
reason
,
and
the
faculty
to
discourse
?
Is
it
to
Peter
,
John
,
&c.
as
to
the
first
subject
,
and
to
them
as
for
their
good
?
No
,
no
,
it
is
to
,
and
for
the
race
of
mankind
.
The
case
is
just
so
here
,
1
Cor.
12.
28.
God
hath
set
Apostles
,
&c.
We
say
also
it
is
just
so
here
,
as
God
hath
given
reason
in
respect
of
the
end
to
mankinde
first
,
and
then
to
the
individua
;
so
God
hath
set
in
the
mysticall
Church
for
the
good
of
it
,
as
chiefly
intended
by
Christ
,
Apostles
,
Prophets
,
&c.
but
now
as
in
the
actuall
dispensing
of
this
gift
of
reason
for
the
good
of
mankinde
,
Reason
is
not
given
to
any
such
body
,
as
the
whole
race
of
mankinde
,
to
descend
to
John
,
Peter
,
&c.
but
first
to
John
,
Peter
,
and
all
the
individualls
,
that
so
by
induction
of
all
particulars
,
the
whole
kinde
of
reasonable
man
may
be
made
up
,
and
the
end
attained
,
and
so
it
is
here
:
God
in
giving
Officers
and
gifts
for
the
good
of
the
mysticall
body
of
Christ
firstly
,
yet
in
execution
gives
these
Officers
,
and
sets
them
in
particular
Churches
,
that
by
the
edification
and
perfection
of
all
particulars
,
the
whole
may
be
attained
.
Thirdly
,
Apostles
,
Prophets
,
and
all
gifts
and
offices
in
generall
and
indefinitely
,
are
given
to
the
Church
indefinitely
considered
,
but
particular
officers
,
Paul
,
Cephas
,
Apollo
,
Titus
,
Archippus
,
&c.
are
given
or
set
in
particular
Churches
;
we
mean
,
according
to
the
severall
natures
and
extents
of
their
offices
;
As
unto
Bees
in
generall
is
given
a
power
to
gather
honey
,
and
order
themselves
in
their
hives
;
but
in
their
exercise
of
this
power
it
is
given
to
the
severall
swarms
in
the
hives
,
who
have
their
Queens
,
&c.
to
order
themselves
.
But
as
this
power
in
generall
makes
not
a
universall
organicall
body
of
Bees
;
no
more
here
an
universall
organicall
Church
.
Lastly
,
to
speak
more
particularly
,
we
conceive
that
the
place
in
the
utmost
latitude
of
it
is
meant
of
the
mysticall
body
,
that
one
body
into
which
all
are
baptized
,
vers.
13.
And
that
the
fundamentall
mistake
of
our
Brethren
is
this
,
that
because
the
Church
here
mentioned
hath
Organs
and
politicall
Officers
in
it
,
that
therefore
it
must
needs
make
one
politicall
Church
,
where
some
Organs
are
to
rule
in
common
,
and
every
part
is
to
be
subject
to
the
whole
.
For
although
the
mysticall
Church
hath
Organs
and
politicall
Officers
in
it
;
yet
it
follows
not
therefore
that
it
is
one
politicall
body
.
For
the
invisible
Church
conjoyned
with
the
visible
,
hath
politicall
Officers
set
in
it
,
and
given
to
it
as
invisible
,
as
well
as
visible
,
in
respect
of
Gods
generall
designation
and
particular
application
of
them
to
this
whole
Church
;
yet
it
follows
not
that
they
are
one
politicall
body
by
actuall
combination
thereunto
;
actuall
combination
,
we
say
,
for
although
Christs
institution
must
warrant
and
prescribe
all
forms
of
politicall
bodies
,
yet
it
will
not
be
found
that
ever
there
was
any
politicall
Society
without
actuall
combination
,
whether
civill
or
sacred
,
whether
nationall
or
more
particular
.
The
mysticall
Church
may
be
said
to
be
organicall
in
respect
of
the
Officers
amongst
them
in
the
severall
parts
thereof
;
every
part
being
a
part
of
the
whole
spiritually
,
though
not
politically
.
But
it
doth
not
thence
follow
that
the
whole
is
one
politicall
body
,
but
mysticall
.
Politicall
Officers
may
,
and
must
suppose
some
part
of
the
Church
to
be
visible
,
but
not
that
the
whole
should
be
Politicall
.
For
the
Apostles
(
by
extraordinary
Commission
for
their
time
were
officers
of
visible
beleevers
,
fit
matter
for
a
combination
,
as
well
as
of
particular
combinations
:
yet
it
follows
not
that
visible
beleevers
existing
out
of
combinations
were
a
politicall
Society
that
would
never
meet
to
combine
;
but
they
were
onely
a
visible
number
of
Saints
.
We
have
been
thus
large
in
clearing
this
Scripture
,
because
we
conceive
the
chief
strength
of
the
contrary
opinion
to
lye
in
it
.
And
this
being
answered
,
the
light
of
it
we
hope
will
scatter
the
darknesse
that
is
brought
upon
divers
other
Scriptures
which
are
drawn
to
prove
such
a
kinde
of
Catholick
Church
,
as
Rom.
12.
4.
&c.
Col.
1.
25.
1
Tim.
3.
15.
Ephes.
4.
11.
In
which
last
Scripture
we
never
doubted
but
that
the
Officers
were
given
,
not
for
that
particular
Church
of
Ephesus
onely
,
much
lesse
to
such
a
diminutive
Congregation
consisting
of
40
,
60
,
or
100
onely
,
as
if
we
intended
to
impawn
all
power
in
this
or
that
Congregational
body
;
but
to
a
congregationall
Church
considered
as
the
genus
of
all
particular
Congregations
of
the
world
.
Neither
to
this
congregationall
Church
onely
,
but
to
all
that
are
to
be
gathered
to
the
unity
of
the
faith
.
But
doth
this
argue
one
politicall
body
consisting
of
all
these
?
For
though
,
vers.
16.
the
whole
body
be
said
to
be
compacted
;
yet
that
this
should
be
understood
of
a
politicall
,
not
spirituall
way
of
compacting
,
we
confesse
(
with
submission
)
our
weaknesse
cannot
apprehend
.
The
last
Scripture
which
we
find
cited
that
seemeth
to
look
this
way
,
is
1
Pet.
5.
1.
Feed
the
flock
which
is
among
you
.
Answ.
1
We
answer
:
It
must
necessarily
be
understood
distributively
,
for
the
severall
flocks
in
all
those
Countreys
to
be
fed
by
their
particular
Elders
;
not
collectively
,
to
be
fed
as
one
flock
in
common
:
For
the
Countreys
are
so
many
and
large
,
as
it
was
impossible
.
Yea
,
we
have
a
clear
parallel
,
James
2.
2.
where
writing
to
the
Jews
of
the
twelve
Tribes
scattered
abroad
,
yet
he
speaks
of
a
man
comming
into
their
Assembly
;
which
cannot
be
meant
collectively
,
as
if
they
had
one
assembly
amongst
them
all
,
but
distributively
of
any
assembly
.
2
Though
they
bee
called
a
flock
,
not
flocks
,
yet
this
,
as
Baines
observes
,
was
not
because
it
was
one
flock
really
in
themselves
,
but
in
some
respect
of
reason
;
which
also
he
expounds
to
be
per
internam
(
we
had
rather
say
,
spiritualem
)
unionem
,
but
not
per
externam
combinationem
;
in
respect
of
which
spirituall
union
,
that
is
true
which
Mr.
Ball
citeth
out
of
Cyprian
,
Etsi
Pastores
Cypr.
lib.
3.
Epist.
13.
Cypr.
lib.
4.
Epist.
7.
multi
sumus
,
unam
tamen
gregem
pascimus
.
As
also
that
there
is
Episcopatus
unus
▪
&
Ecclesia
una
in
toto
mundo
.
Hence
also
may
appear
an
answer
to
divers
arguments
,
the
chief
whereof
we
shall
run
through
.
Object.
1.
If
by
baptism
we
are
not
admitted
into
one
particular
Church
,
but
into
the
whole
Catholick
visible
Church
,
1
Cor.
12.
13.
then
there
is
such
a
Catholick
Church
.
Answ.
Baptism
admitteth
us
into
the
whole
mysticall
body
of
Christ
,
whether
visible
or
invisible
of
all
ages
:
But
this
is
not
a
Catholick
Politicall
body
,
of
which
we
speak
;
for
then
every
baptized
person
should
be
a
member
of
every
particular
Church
,
and
have
an
Oa●e
in
every
boat
,
in
electing
Officers
,
admitting
members
,
censuring
offenders
,
&c.
which
Mr.
Ball
will
not
grant
,
and
indeed
would
bring
in
endlesse
confusion
into
the
Churches
of
Christ
.
Besides
,
no
man
can
be
a
member
of
any
combined
society
without
their
consent
,
for
otherwise
so
many
may
croud
into
the
Church
because
baptized
,
as
shall
overthrow
the
edification
thereof
,
and
that
against
the
consent
of
the
Church
,
and
all
the
Officers
thereof
.
Object.
2.
When
any
scandalous
person
is
delivered
to
Satan
,
he
is
cast
out
of
the
whole
Catholick
church
,
Ergo
,
he
was
a
member
of
the
whole
Catholick
Church
,
for
be
cannot
be
cast
out
who
was
never
within
.
Answ.
1
Some
answer
that
he
is
cast
out
of
all
onely
consequenter
,
by
reason
of
communion
of
Churches
;
neither
doe
we
see
that
this
is
taken
away
by
saying
,
that
,
As
when
the
left
hand
cutteth
off
a
finger
of
the
right
hand
,
it
is
not
the
left
hand
onely
that
cuts
it
off
,
but
the
whole
man
,
deliberate
reason
and
will
consenting
:
For
if
this
similitude
would
suit
,
then
the
whole
Catholick
church
must
be
called
to
consult
and
consent
antecedenter
,
before
a
particular
Church
can
cut
off
any
member
,
which
ordinarily
is
impossible
to
be
attain'd
.
2
But
further
▪
according
to
our
former
principles
laid
down
,
we
say
he
that
is
justly
cast
out
of
one
Church
,
he
is
morally
excommunicated
out
of
all
,
but
not
politically
and
formally
:
For
to
excommunicate
politically
and
formally
,
is
by
vertue
of
a
superior
authority
next
under
Christ
;
so
that
what
is
bound
by
them
,
is
bound
in
heaven
.
In
which
act
the
Minister
doth
not
onely
bind
the
person
,
but
also
by
vertue
of
his
▪
Office
chargeth
the
Church
not
to
have
communion
with
him
.
But
we
doe
not
think
that
our
Brethren
will
say
that
one
Church
putteth
forth
such
an
act
of
superior
authority
binding
or
charging
all
Churches
politicè
and
judicialitèr
not
to
have
communion
with
him
;
for
so
one
Church
should
exercise
jurisdiction
overall
Churches
,
and
that
without
their
actuall
approbation
,
for
,
quod
spectat
ad
omnes
,
debet
ab
omnibus
approbari
.
If
it
be
said
,
That
a
particular
Church
doth
excommunicate
by
an
intrinsecall
power
not
onely
in
it self
,
but
intrinsecall
in
the
whole
body
;
the
question
will
be
,
What
is
that
intrinsecall
power
?
Is
it
naturall
or
voluntary
?
To
say
it
is
naturall
,
were
too
absurd
;
if
voluntary
,
then
neither
Congregations
,
Classes
,
Provinces
,
Nations
,
have
power
to
excommunicate
without
the
praevious
consent
of
the
whole
Catholick
church
,
which
must
voluntarily
concurr
thereunto
.
And
if
the
Catholick
Presbytery
(
as
is
said
)
have
no
next
,
but
a
a
remote
power
of
excommunication
,
and
this
remote
power
bee
extraordinary
,
or
raro
contingens
,
or
almost
never
,
then
the
ordinary
power
of
excommunication
,
(
which
is
enough
for
us
)
is
not
from
an
intrinsecall
power
of
the
Church
catholick
.
On
the
other
side
(
if
it
be
said
)
this
power
is
in
the
whole
,
but
not
derived
from
the
whole
to
the
parts
,
as
the
power
of
seeing
is
first
in
the
man
,
then
in
the
eye
,
yet
not
derived
from
hands
,
leggs
,
shoulders
,
&c.
and
as
the
great
body
of
the
Sunn
hath
intrinsecall
light
in
every
part
,
not
by
derivation
from
one
part
to
another
;
so
this
power
of
the
Keys
is
from
Christ
the
Head
to
all
the
integral
parts
in
points
that
severally
concern
the
same
.
First
,
if
this
be
so
,
then
every
particular
Congregation
receives
its
power
of
the
Keys
immediately
from
Christ
,
not
by
derivation
from
any
Presbytery
,
or
the
Catholick
Church
,
and
is
in
that
respect
Independent
.
Neither
also
can
Congregations
derive
the
power
seated
in
them
to
Presbyteries
,
nor
any
greater
bodies
take
it
from
them
.
Secondly
,
though
we
acknowledge
this
intrinsecall
power
of
excommunication
in
particular
Congregations
,
as
being
there
properly
seated
by
Christ
;
yet
that
there
are
any
such
politicall
Churches
,
Classicall
,
Provinciall
,
Nationall
,
or
Catholick
,
that
have
any
such
intrinsecall
power
as
is
in
the
Sunn
,
this
is
not
yet
proved
to
our
understanding
.
We
deny
not
the
use
of
lesser
and
greater
Synods
,
nor
of
such
Doctrinall
power
as
the
pattern
Acts
15.
holdeth
forth
,
and
which
is
all
that
Learned
[
](A93091-e10720-b)*
*
Right
of
Presbyt.
pag.
482.
Mr.
Rutherford
conceives
to
belong
to
a
generall
Councell
;
for
thus
he
saith
,
Verily
,
I
professe
I
cannot
see
what
power
of
jurisdiction
to
censure
scandalls
can
be
in
a
generall
Councell
,
there
may
be
some
me●●
Doctrinall
power
in
such
a
Councell
,
if
such
could
be
had
,
and
that
is
all
.
And
how
a
Nationall
,
Provinciall
,
or
Classicall
Synod
being
lesser
parts
of
the
whole
,
can
put
forth
such
acts
as
the
whole
cannot
do
,
ipsi
viderint
.
'T
is
true
,
a
particular
Church
may
formally
cast
out
a
scandalous
member
according
to
the
rule
,
Matth.
18.
yet
the
argument
from
proportion
will
not
hold
in
respect
of
the
power
of
excommunication
in
greater
assemblies
against
any
particular
Church
offending
,
(
though
other
means
appointed
by
Christ
we
deny
not
)
for
if
excommunication
casteth
out
an
offender
out
of
all
Churches
,
then
such
a
particular
Church
cannot
be
excommunicated
,
except
it
could
be
cast
out
of
it self
,
though
it
may
be
deprived
of
the
communion
of
other
Churches
.
Lastly
,
if
it
be
no
sin
,
(
as
is
said
)
but
a
crosse
,
that
the
Catholick
Church
cannot
meet
to
put
forth
its
supposed
intrinsecall
power
,
then
let
the
particular
Churches
enjoy
that
power
till
the
Catholick
Church
can
meet
.
2
It
seems
to
us
very
strange
that
the
Lord
Jesus
should
institute
such
a
supreme
power
in
a
Catholick
Body
,
which
(
as
is
said
)
de
jure
,
should
be
till
the
comming
of
Christ
,
and
yet
should
be
interrupted
by
the
sin
of
man
so
many
ages
,
and
which
(
for
ought
appeares
)
never
orderly
met
to
this
day
.
Object.
3.
If
all
Pastors
be
Pastors
of
the
Catholick
Church
,
then
there
is
such
a
Catholick
Church
;
but
all
Pastors
are
Pastors
of
the
Catholick
Church
:
Ergo.
Answ.
If
it
be
meant
thus
,
that
they
are
Pastors
of
some
particular
part
of
the
Church
,
and
in
that
respect
in
the
whole
,
and
for
the
good
of
the
whole
,
the
good
of
every
part
redounding
to
the
good
of
the
whole
;
yea
,
if
some
Pastorall
care
also
be
intended
towards
other
Churches
,
and
to
fetch
in
such
as
are
yet
not
of
the
Church
;
we
grant
all
this
according
to
the
meaning
of
that
place
,
1
Cor.
12.
28.
formerly
opened
by
us
.
But
if
this
Argument
intend
that
they
are
Pastors
of
the
Catholick
Body
as
of
One
Politicall
Church
,
then
we
deny
the
Assumption
upon
this
ground
;
because
a
Pastorall
Office
consists
properly
in
having
a
charge
and
power
over
those
to
whom
he
is
a
Pastor
,
Act.
20.
28.
but
he
hath
no
charge
of
the
whole
;
for
if
so
,
he
must
give
account
to
Christ
of
the
whole
;
neither
hath
he
power
over
such
a
Catholick
church
,
being
never
chosen
by
it
,
nor
it
subjecting
to
him
.
If
it
be
said
,
such
are
made
Pastors
by
Ordination
of
the
Presbyters
,
not
the
election
of
the
people
who
onely
appropriate
him
to
themselves
,
who
is
a
Pastor
of
the
whole
Church
:
then
he
is
either
a
Catholick
Pastor
that
hath
power
to
intermeddle
in
all
Churches
,
as
the
Apostles
had
,
which
we
think
none
will
yeeld
them
;
or
else
they
are
Pastors
onely
in
name
,
without
power
,
which
is
absurd
.
Nor
doth
the
similitude
of
a
Physitian
made
Doctor
of
Physick
at
large
by
a
Colledge
of
Physitians
,
helpe
in
this
case
.
For
it
supp●seth
him
to
be
made
such
a
Doctor
before
he
be
elected
by
any
people
to
exercise
this
faculty
;
which
applyed
to
this
case
of
a
Pastor
,
as
having
Ordination
to
make
him
a
Pastor
at
large
,
before
election
to
this
or
that
people
,
is
utterly
against
all
examples
of
Scripture
,
as
Acts
1.
&
6.
&
14
,
Object.
4.
That
which
belongeth
to
a
little
part
of
a
similar
body
(
quâ
talis
)
belongs
to
a
greater
part
much
more
;
and
therefore
if
the
immediate
exercise
of
the
Keys
belong
to
a
single
congregation
,
then
much
more
to
the
whole
,
and
to
any
greater
part
of
the
whole
.
Answ.
1
Such
as
say
that
the
Catholick
Church
is
a
similar
Body
,
had
need
explicate
themselves
.
For
to
speak
properly
and
strictly
,
by
this
rule
every
particular
visible
beleever
being
a
part
of
the
whole
as
a
totum
aggregativum
,
must
have
nomen
&
naturam
totius
,
and
so
every
beleever
is
a
Church
;
or
if
they
so
divide
this
Catholick
similar
body
,
as
to
make
a
particular
Congregation
that
can
joyn
in
Gods
ordinances
,
the
minimum
quod
sic
;
then
particular
visible
beleevers
considered
as
existing
out
of
these
Congregations
cannot
be
members
formally
of
the
Catholick
visible
Church
.
2
We
acknowledge
the
Catholick
church
considered
as
visible
and
invisible
,
is
one
spirituall
or
mysticall
body
,
yet
this
Catholick
body
is
under
no
Catholick
policy
;
but
onely
in
the
severall
parts
of
it
,
(
as
hath
been
proved
before
)
and
in
this
respect
the
Church
,
which
is
spiritually
one
body
,
is
politicè
many
bodies
:
so
that
the
parts
of
this
spirituall
to●um
are
not
distinct
bodies
spirituali
relatione
,
(
for
then
every
company
of
women
are
a
Church
body
)
but
politicâ
combinatione
;
and
hence
though
the
Catholick
church
be
one
similar
body
spiritually
,
(
due
cautions
and
interpretations
observed
)
yet
it
is
not
one
similar
Body
politically
;
and
hence
every
society
of
beleevers
is
not
a
Church
.
Hence
though
it
be
true
,
that
what
belongs
to
a
part
of
a
similar
body
,
as
a
part
,
belongeth
much
more
to
the
whole
;
and
that
therefore
what
belongs
to
a
particular
Church
,
belongs
much
more
to
the
whole
:
It
is
true
in
this
sense
,
viz.
what
belongs
to
the
part
of
the
whole
as
spirituall
,
and
so
participates
the
nature
of
the
whole
,
belongs
much
more
to
the
whole
,
because
the
whole
is
spirituall
:
yet
what
belongs
to
the
part
as
politicall
,
doth
not
much
more
belong
to
the
whole
,
because
the
whole
is
not
politicall
:
Exempli
gratiâ
,
consider
a
particular
Congregation
,
as
a
number
redeemed
,
called
to
Christ
,
espoused
to
him
,
this
much
more
belongs
to
the
whole
;
and
so
if
any
priviledge
belong
to
them
as
such
,
much
more
to
the
whole
.
Yet
consider
a
Church
as
a
combined
Body
,
so
what
belongs
to
this
part
,
belongs
not
to
the
whole
.
For
it
belongs
to
the
part
to
elect
and
enjoy
constantly
Pastors
over
it
,
but
this
doth
not
belong
to
the
whole
as
a
totum
.
The
Catholick
mysticall
Church
is
indeed
the
prima
materia
,
out
of
which
politicall
Churches
by
their
combination
are
formed
;
but
it
is
no
first
formed
politicall
similar
Church
,
whence
every
particular
Church
immediately
participates
of
the
nature
of
that
whole
,
having
in
it
partem
talis
materiae
&
partem
formae
.
Object.
5.
If
there
be
Church
communion
between
all
Churches
,
then
there
is
one
Catholick
Church
:
but
there
is
Church
communion
of
all
Churches
in
hearing
,
receiving
Sacraments
,
exhorting
one
another
,
praying
one
for
another
,
&c.
Ergo.
Answ.
We
deny
the
consequence
;
for
there
may
be
a
fraternall
,
Ecclesiasticall
communion
,
not
onely
internally
,
but
externally
,
without
such
an
union
as
makes
one
politicall
combined
Body
,
such
as
here
we
dispute
of
;
as
,
two
or
three
Congregations
may
have
communion
together
,
and
yet
not
be
one
politicall
Body
:
Twenty
synagogues
might
have
communion
together
in
the
Jewish
policy
,
and
yet
were
not
one
politicall
Body
:
so
the
Churches
of
Galatia
might
have
communion
together
,
yet
were
distinct
Churches
,
not
one
Church
;
as
also
,
the
Churches
of
New
England
have
sweet
and
blessed
communion
,
yet
are
distinct
.
And
though
the
Churches
of
Galatia
were
called
a
whole
lump
,
(
as
is
objected
)
yet
were
they
thus
by
politicall
combination
;
or
as
Dr.
Downam
(
to
mould
up
a
Diocesan
Church
)
compares
the
first
Church
to
a
great
lump
of
dough
,
or
batch
of
bread
,
out
of
which
particular
Churches
were
formed
into
many
loaves
;
or
not
rather
called
a
lump
by
spirituall
union
and
relation
,
common
profession
,
and
fraternall
communion
,
being
all
the
same
Countrey-men
;
so
also
the
Apostles
had
Church
communion
,
yet
were
not
a
politicall
body
.
Kingdoms
so
may
have
civil
communion
and
commerce
,
yet
not
be
one
Kingdom
.
Object.
6.
If
the
Keys
be
given
to
a
particular
Church
under
the
notion
of
the
Spouse
of
Christ
,
a
flock
of
redeemed
ones
,
&c.
and
then
much
more
to
the
Catholick
visible
Church
,
which
is
the
Spouse
of
Christ
,
and
flock
of
redeemed
ones
primarily
,
and
to
a
particular
Church
onely
secondarily
;
but
the
first
is
affirmed
by
such
as
deny
such
a
Catholick
Church
:
Ergo.
Answ.
1
It
is
true
,
the
notion
of
a
flock
of
redeemed
ones
of
the
Body
,
and
Spouse
of
Christ
,
Kingdom
,
House
,
&c.
doe
agree
primarily
to
the
Church
,
not
of
this
,
but
of
all
ages
,
and
secondarily
to
the
Church
of
this
age
,
Colos.
1.
18.
Ephes.
5.
25
,
26.
and
2.
19.
2
The
Church
which
is
the
Body
of
Christ
existing
in
this
age
,
the
Keys
are
given
to
it
primarily
,
in
comparison
of
particular
Churches
coexisting
with
it
,
as
to
the
chief
object
and
end
;
but
not
to
it
as
a
politicall
Body
,
in
respect
of
actuall
and
immediate
dispensation
thereof
:
for
(
as
we
have
oft
said
)
if
in
respect
of
Politicall
dispensation
the
Keys
belong
firstly
to
the
Body
of
Christ
as
his
Spouse
and
redeemed
ones
;
then
the
Church
invisible
as
invisible
,
rather
then
visible
,
must
have
the
dispensation
of
the
Keys
primarily
.
3
It
is
not
said
,
that
the
Keys
are
immediately
given
to
a
particular
Church
abstractly
,
as
a
number
of
redeemed
,
but
as
consociated
and
politically
combined
:
And
in
this
respect
that
may
be
attributed
to
the
part
,
a
particular
Congregation
of
redeemed
ones
,
which
cannot
be
attributed
to
the
whole
.
Ex.
gr
.
such
a
Congregation
is
combined
,
so
is
not
the
whole
,
nor
can
be
;
such
a
Church
may
choose
a
Pastor
over
it
,
but
so
cannot
the
whole
;
so
a
man
may
tell
the
particular
Church
,
who
may
convene
together
,
not
so
the
whole
.
Thus
far
(
through
the
helpe
of
Christ
)
we
have
endevoured
to
clear
the
first
Point
propounded
concerning
a
Catholick
instituted
Church
.
We
come
now
to
prove
the
second
Point
,
viz.
That
Jesus
Christ
hath
instituted
in
the
Gospel
a
particular
Church
of
one
Congregation
,
in
which
,
and
unto
which
the
actuall
and
immediate
dispensation
and
participation
of
all
instituted
Worship
doe
regularly
and
ordinarily
belong
.
And
here
we
shall
shew
:
1
What
such
a
particular
Church
is
.
2
How
the
dispensation
of
Church
power
and
priviledge
do
belong
unto
it
.
For
the
first
,
we
shall
declare
our selves
in
these
Five
Propositions
.
1
It
must
be
a
visible
Society
,
for
One
man
cannot
make
a
Church
,
nor
can
many
visible
beleevers
living
severally
,
without
society
in
severall
Nations
make
One
Church
.
2
It
's
not
every
Society
of
visible
Professors
that
doe
make
a
Church
,
for
then
every
family
of
such
Professors
are
a
Church
:
Then
two
or
three
(
which
our
Brethren
so
much
condemn
)
are
a
Church
;
and
then
a
Society
of
Women
professing
the
truth
may
be
a
Politicall
Church
;
then
many
members
of
severall
Churches
met
to
hear
a
Sermon
,
or
any
like
occasion
,
make
a
Church
;
then
a
number
of
Professors
may
constitute
a
Diocesan
Church
,
or
any
like
form
;
for
out
of
this
block
,
That
any
number
of
beleevers
made
a
Church
,
Dr.
Downam
hewed
out
his
Diocesan
Church
,
and
so
made
a
fit
seat
for
his
Diocesan
Mercury
.
Lastly
,
then
particular
Churches
should
have
no
more
any
set
Form
prescribed
,
then
Civill
government
,
which
is
as
variable
as
humane
wisdome
sees
meet
,
for
hence
a
particular
Church
may
be
melted
into
any
form
or
mould
of
civil
Society
;
for
imagine
a
number
of
professing
beleevers
,
cohabiting
either
in
a
City
,
Hundred
,
Wapentake
,
Shire
,
Province
,
Nation
,
Empire
,
&c.
there
shall
then
be
so
many
forms
of
Churches
contrary
to
the
principles
and
unanswerable
arguments
of
our
best
Reformers
,
who
accounted
it
a
great
absurdity
that
the
heavenly
Kingdome
of
Christ
should
be
moulded
and
framed
according
to
the
weaknesse
of
humane
wisdome
and
policy
.
3
It
must
therefore
be
a
Society
combined
,
and
that
by
a
Covenant
explicite
or
implicite
,
for
it
must
be
such
a
combined
Society
where
the
whole
have
power
over
its
members
;
now
whatever
power
one
hath
over
another
,
if
it
be
not
by
way
of
conquest
or
naturall
relation
,
(
as
the
father
over
the
childe
)
it
is
by
covenant
,
as
husband
and
wife
,
Master
and
servant
,
Prince
and
people
;
other
powers
are
but
usurpations
:
it
is
noted
as
a
prophane
speech
in
Brennus
,
who
professed
he
knew
no
other
rule
of
Justice
,
then
for
the
greater
to
subdue
the
lesse
.
Again
,
it
is
such
a
Society
as
hath
an
ordinate
power
,
to
subject
it self
to
Officers
,
by
electing
of
them
to
administer
ordinances
amongst
them
;
but
this
is
onely
a
federall
Society
.
Again
,
it
is
such
a
Society
,
to
the
making
up
of
which
is
required
something
more
then
faith
,
Acts
5.
14.
Beleevers
were
added
to
the
Lord
,
or
to
his
Church
;
so
that
they
were
first
beleevers
,
before
they
were
added
to
the
Church
;
for
there
may
be
a
number
of
beleevers
converted
at
one
Sermon
,
and
immediately
scattered
into
many
Towns
or
Countreys
:
Now
,
if
faith
professed
alone
,
makes
not
a
Church
,
but
somewhat
more
is
required
,
what
can
that
be
but
foederall
combination
?
Lastly
,
that
,
the
dissolution
whereof
doth
unchurch
a
people
,
doth
constitute
a
Church
:
but
breaking
the
combination
dissolves
the
Church
,
whether
by
consent
,
schism
,
or
when
God
himself
removes
the
candlestick
:
Ergo.
4
Though
a
Church
be
such
by
combining
,
and
so
subjecting
themselves
to
the
power
of
others
,
yet
it
must
not
be
herein
illimited
,
but
according
to
the
form
and
mould
expressed
in
the
Word
;
for
if
they
have
this
power
to
combine
as
many
,
and
as
largely
as
they
will
,
then
a
Diocese
,
Province
,
Nation
,
may
combine
,
and
so
put
themselves
under
the
power
of
a
Diocesan
,
Provinciall
,
Nationall
society
,
which
is
unlawfull
;
for
the
Church
must
be
such
a
form
as
a
man
may
ordinarily
bring
offences
unto
it
,
according
to
Matth.
18.
Tell
the
Church
;
but
that
cannot
be
in
a
Diocese
,
much
lesse
in
a
Province
or
Nation
,
where
the
Members
can
neither
take
notice
of
the
offence
,
nor
ordinarily
so
much
as
consent
unto
any
censure
acted
by
any
Officers
in
such
a
Church
;
nay
,
further
,
if
their
power
be
unlimited
,
they
may
choose
a
Diocesan
Pastor
,
one
,
or
many
to
feed
all
,
or
one
to
rule
(
like
Beza
his
Episcopus
humanus
)
with
subjection
in
case
of
error
to
the
censure
of
all
;
nay
,
hence
we
see
not
,
but
they
may
choose
an
universall
Pastor
,
and
so
give
away
the
power
to
one
,
if
all
will
agree
.
In
a
word
,
they
onely
may
combine
into
a
Politicall
Body
,
where
the
whole
may
excommunicate
any
part
;
but
this
cannot
be
in
a
combination
of
many
Churches
into
one
whole
,
because
no
particular
Church
is
capable
of
excommunication
,
for
it
is
impossible
to
be
cast
out
of
it self
,
as
was
said
before
.
5
A
particular
Church
therefore
must
be
such
a
Society
as
is
so
combined
together
,
that
it
may
ordinarily
enjoy
Church
communion
,
to
exercise
Church
power
,
to
be
fed
by
her
Officers
,
and
led
by
them
;
hence
Titus
was
to
set
Elders
in
every
Church
,
and
these
Elders
were
such
as
could
ordinarily
feed
them
,
by
preaching
the
Word
,
as
well
as
rule
and
govern
them
.
Now
that
such
a
Congregationall
Church
is
the
institution
of
the
Gospel
,
appears
first
by
those
many
Scriptures
that
speak
of
the
Churches
of
one
Countrey
,
and
in
small
compasse
,
as
severall
Churches
,
not
as
one
,
as
the
Churches
of
Judea
,
Samaria
,
and
Galil●e
,
Acts
9.
the
Churches
of
Galatia
,
Gal.
1.
1.
yea
,
not
only
in
one
small
Countrey
,
but
in
Cities
,
or
near
unto
them
;
we
read
of
distinct
Churches
,
as
Corinth
,
though
God
had
much
people
there
,
yet
it
was
one
Congregation
,
1
Cor.
14.
33.
and
had
another
Church
near
to
it
,
viz.
Cenchrea
:
Also
Rome
,
whom
the
Apostle
saluting
,
sends
also
salutations
by
them
to
Aquila
and
Priscilla
,
with
the
Church
in
their
houshold
,
which
shew
they
were
not
far
from
that
Church
of
Rome
.
To
these
add
,
that
Jerusalem
the
first
Church
that
was
constituted
by
the
Apostles
,
and
whose
number
was
the
greatest
of
any
that
we
read
of
,
yet
it
was
but
one
Congregation
,
as
is
evident
by
Acts
1.
and
Chap.
2.
41
,
42.
What
is
objected
against
this
to
prove
it
the
Catholick
Church
,
was
answered
before
;
other
objections
against
this
,
and
like
examples
,
shall
be
considered
in
their
due
place
,
as
we
meet
with
them
.
But
we
shall
not
need
to
say
much
,
that
a
Congregation
furnished
with
its
Officers
is
a
Church
according
to
the
institution
of
the
Gospel
,
but
there
are
more
objections
against
the
compleatnesse
thereof
,
which
yet
is
proved
thus
,
That
Church
which
hath
power
of
all
the
Keys
given
unto
it
for
actuall
administration
within
it self
,
is
a
compleat
Church
:
But
so
hath
a
particular
Congregation
,
Ergo.
The
first
part
is
evident
;
because
where
all
the
Keys
are
with
full
power
to
administer
the
same
,
there
nothing
is
wanting
;
the
Assumption
is
proved
thus
,
If
all
those
Officers
to
whom
is
given
the
authoritative
power
of
exercising
the
Keys
,
be
given
to
a
Congregation
;
then
all
the
Keys
are
so
given
to
it
,
but
so
it
is
;
for
since
Apostles
and
extraordinary
Officers
ceased
,
there
are
no
other
Officers
but
Pastors
,
Teachers
,
and
Rulers
,
called
sometimes
Bishops
,
sometimes
Elders
:
but
these
Officers
are
given
to
such
a
Church
,
as
is
proved
Acts
14.
Tit.
1.
4.
and
is
acknowledged
in
all
Reformed
Churches
,
who
ordain
such
Officers
in
particular
Churches
of
one
Congregation
:
Ergo.
Object.
1.
If
it
be
said
,
that
though
a
Congregation
hath
such
Officers
as
have
the
power
of
the
Keys
,
yet
that
such
must
combine
with
others
in
way
of
co-ordination
to
govern
in
common
,
and
so
to
be
helped
and
compleated
by
them
.
Answ.
We
grant
much
help
may
be
had
by
sister
Churches
,
and
consultative
Presbyteries
,
but
that
which
takes
away
the
exercise
of
the
Keys
in
point
of
government
from
the
church
to
whom
Christ
hath
given
it
,
doth
not
compleat
it
,
but
take
away
and
destroy
the
power
and
liberty
of
it
;
for
though
the
Pastor
of
a
congregation
may
oft
consent
,
yet
the
major
part
of
the
Presbytery
must
carry
it
,
whether
he
consent
or
no
,
and
therefore
his
power
is
swallowed
up
.
Besides
,
it
seems
to
us
a
mystery
,
that
every
Pastor
,
even
such
as
have
no
flock
,
should
be
Pastors
of
the
Catholick
church
,
and
yet
a
Pastor
should
not
have
power
to
rule
in
his
own
flock
over
which
Christ
hath
made
him
a
Bishop
,
and
for
which
flock
he
must
give
account
unto
God
.
Object.
2.
It
cannot
have
a
Synod
,
which
is
one
ordinance
of
God
,
therefore
it
is
not
a
compleat
Church
.
Answ.
By
this
reason
a
Classicall
church
is
not
compleat
,
because
it
cannot
have
a
Nationall
councell
;
nor
a
Nationall
church
,
because
it
cannot
have
a
generall
councell
;
if
it
be
said
a
classis
have
all
ordinary
meanes
to
a
compleat
church
,
we
say
the
like
of
a
congregation
.
Object.
3.
Though
a
Town
or
family
being
cast
alone
,
may
govern
as
a
compleat
body
;
yet
when
it
stands
in
a
common-wealth
,
as
in
England
,
it
may
not
be
so
independent
,
but
submit
to
combinations
:
so
here
when
a
particular
Congregation
is
alone
,
it
may
govern
as
compleat
;
not
so
when
amongst
other
Churches
.
Answ.
If
such
a
Town
or
family
have
compleat
power
,
and
all
civill
Officers
within
it self
,
it
is
not
bound
to
submit
to
such
combinations
in
a
common-wealth
,
except
it
be
under
a
superior
power
that
can
command
the
same
.
As
Abraham
having
a
compleat
government
in
his
family
was
not
bound
to
combine
with
the
governments
he
came
amongst
,
neither
did
he
;
in
prudence
he
ioyned
in
a
league
of
amity
and
for
mutual
help
with
Aner
,
&c.
but
not
to
submit
to
their
government
:
so
here
a
Church
having
compleat
Officers
is
not
bound
to
submit
to
such
combinations
,
except
it
be
proved
that
any
superior
power
of
other
churches
can
command
the
same
.
Secondly
,
though
a
family
no●
having
compleat
civill
government
in
it self
must
combine
where
it
stands
in
a
commonwealth
,
yet
never
to
yeeld
up
its
family-government
over
wife
,
children
and
servants
to
rule
them
in
common
with
other
Masters
of
families
,
no
civill
prudence
or
morall
rule
taught
men
ever
so
to
practise
;
and
therefore
why
in
such
a
case
should
a
Church
give
up
the
government
of
it self
to
Pastors
of
many
Churches
to
rule
it
in
common
,
and
not
rather
as
a
Classis
is
over-awed
by
the
Provinciall
onely
in
common
things
;
so
in
congregations
Pastors
should
govern
their
flocks
,
and
onely
in
things
common
be
under
a
Presbytery
.
If
it
be
said
,
That
the
Classis
do
act
in
such
things
only
;
for
in
excommunication
of
an
offender
,
the
offence
is
common
to
all
.
We
answer
,
if
so
,
then
why
should
not
the
Provinciall
and
Nationall
Churches
by
this
reason
assume
all
to
themselves
from
the
Classis
?
for
the
offence
of
one
is
common
to
all
:
As
also
upon
this
ground
,
why
should
not
the
Classis
admit
all
the
members
of
every
Congregation
under
them
?
for
this
also
may
concern
them
all
.
Thirdly
,
here
is
a
great
difference
,
for
civill
Societies
are
left
to
civill
prudence
,
and
may
give
up
themselves
to
many
forms
of
government
:
but
Churches
are
bound
to
use
and
maintain
such
order
of
government
as
Christ
hath
set
in
the
church
,
and
not
to
give
it
up
to
many
,
no
more
then
to
one
:
If
testimonies
were
needfull
,
we
might
produce
Zanchi
,
Zwinglius
,
Parker
,
Baines
,
and
others
,
who
are
fully
with
us
in
this
doctrine
of
a
particular
church
;
yea
,
Dr.
Downam
himself
confesseth
;
that
the
most
of
the
churches
in
the
time
of
the
Apostle
Paul
did
not
exceed
the
proportion
of
a
populous
congregation
;
and
this
confession
puts
us
in
minde
of
a
witty
passage
of
his
Refuter
,
or
his
Epistoler
,
who
against
the
Bishops
maintains
the
doctrine
of
congregationall
churches
with
us
;
with
whose
expressions
,
(
for
the
recreation
of
our selves
and
the
Reader
)
we
will
conclude
:
The
Papist
,
(
saith
he
)
he
tels
us
(
just
as
the
Organs
goe
at
Rome
)
that
the
extent
of
a
Bishops
jurisdiction
is
not
limited
but
by
the
Popes
appointment
,
his
power
of
it self
indifferently
reaching
over
all
the
world
.
Our
Prelatists
would
perswade
us
(
to
the
tune
of
Canterbury
)
that
neither
church
nor
Bishop
hath
his
bounds
determined
by
the
Pope
,
nor
yet
by
Christ
in
the
Scriptures
,
but
left
to
the
pleasure
of
Princes
,
to
be
cast
into
one
mould
with
the
Civill
State
.
Now
the
plain
Christian
finding
nothing
but
humane
uncertainties
in
either
of
these
devises
,
be
contenteth
himself
with
plain
song
,
and
knowing
that
Christ
hath
appointed
Christians
to
gather
themselves
into
such
Societies
as
may
assemble
themselves
together
for
the
worship
of
God
,
and
that
unto
such
he
hath
given
their
peculiar
Pastors
;
he
,
I
say
,
in
his
simplicity
calleth
▪
these
Assemblies
,
the
Churches
of
Christ
,
and
these
Pastors
,
his
Bishops
.
Thus
much
concerning
the
nature
of
a
particular
church
,
and
that
it
is
instituted
in
the
Gospel
.
Now
in
the
second
place
wee
are
to
shew
how
church
government
and
Ordinances
are
given
to
it
as
to
the
proper
subject
of
the
same
.
Where
we
shall
propound
these
Theses
for
explication
of
our selves
.
First
,
Though
Pastourship
considered
as
an
office
in
relation
to
a
people
to
feed
them
anthoritatively
,
be
one
of
these
Ordinances
given
to
a
particular
church
:
Yet
Christ
hath
given
it
for
the
gathering
in
of
his
elect
unto
the
church
,
and
therfore
wee
grant
some
acts
of
the
Ministery
,
viz.
the
preaching
of
the
Word
,
is
to
be
extended
beyond
the
bounds
of
the
church
.
Secondly
,
Seales
and
other
Priviledges
although
de
jure
,
and
remotely
they
belong
to
the
catholique
church
,
or
the
number
of
beleevers
:
yet
de
facto
and
nextly
they
belong
properly
to
this
Subject
which
wee
speake
of
,
(
as
wee
hope
to
make
good
.
)
Thirdly
,
They
are
not
so
appropriated
to
such
congregations
onely
as
to
exclude
the
members
of
those
congregations
which
are
unde●
the
government
of
a
common
Presbytery
or
other
formes
of
government
,
for
wee
have
a
brotherly
esteeme
of
such
congrega●ions
,
notwithstanding
that
tertium
quoddam
separabile
of
government
,
(
as
Mr.
Baines
cals
it
)
being
a
thing
that
commeth
to
a
church
now
constituted
,
and
may
be
absent
,
the
church
remaining
a
Church
.
Fourthly
,
although
it
be
said
by
some
Divines
,
that
as
faith
is
the
internall
form
of
the
church
,
so
profession
of
faith
is
the
outward
form
,
and
that
therefore
bare
profession
of
saith
makes
a
member
of
the
visible
church
,
yet
this
must
be
understood
according
to
the
interpretations
of
some
of
them
who
so
speak
,
for
there
is
a
double
profession
of
faith
;
Personall
,
which
is
acted
severally
by
particular
persons
;
and
common
,
which
is
acted
conjointly
in
,
and
with
a
Society
:
The
first
makes
a
man
of
the
catholick
number
of
visible
Saints
,
and
so
fit
matter
for
politicall
church-society
:
the
other
makes
a
man
of
the
politicall
church
formally
and
compleatly
;
and
in
this
latter
sense
profession
of
faith
is
the
externall
form
of
a
visible
church
,
but
not
in
the
other
.
Now
that
in
and
to
this
subject
so
professing
,
the
seals
and
other
ordinances
belong
may
,
be
proved
thus
:
Argum.
1.
First
,
the
seals
and
other
Church-ordinances
must
either
belong
to
the
Catholick
church
as
such
,
or
to
the
particular
Church
:
but
these
cannot
belong
to
the
Catholick
in
actuall
dispensation
whereof
we
now
speak
:
Ergo.
For
that
Church
which
is
uncapable
of
actuall
dispensation
of
seales
,
censures
,
&c.
is
uncapable
of
the
participation
thereof
in
an
orderly
and
ordinary
way
;
But
the
Catholick
number
of
visible
beleevers
as
Catholick
,
and
out
of
particular
Societies
,
are
not
capable
of
dispensing
the
same
;
Ergo.
The
Proposition
is
evident
,
for
it
cannot
be
shewed
that
any
Church
in
the
New
Testament
was
ever
capable
of
participating
in
seals
,
that
was
not
capable
of
dispensing
them
,
at
least
not
having
a
next
power
to
elect
Officers
to
do
it
.
The
Assumption
is
evident
from
what
hath
been
proved
,
that
it
is
no
politicall
Body
(
the
sole
subject
of
Church
administrations
)
neither
in
the
whole
,
nor
in
the
parts
as
existing
out
of
Congregations
.
Argum.
2.
If
the
members
of
the
Catholick
church
be
bound
to
joyn
into
particular
Societies
,
that
they
may
partake
of
seals
,
&c.
then
the
seals
are
not
to
be
administred
immediatly
to
them
,
for
then
they
should
have
the
end
without
the
means
.
But
they
are
bound
to
joyn
in
such
Societies
for
that
end
,
for
otherwise
there
is
no
necessity
of
erecting
any
particular
Churches
in
the
world
;
and
so
all
the
glory
of
Christ
in
this
respect
should
be
laid
in
the
dust
,
and
these
particular
temples
destroyed
,
and
thus
a
door
of
liberty
is
opened
to
many
to
live
loosely
without
the
care
and
watch
,
and
communion
of
any
particular
Church
in
the
world
.
Argum.
3.
If
the
seals
are
to
be
administred
immediately
to
beleevers
,
or
professing
beleevers
as
such
,
then
they
may
be
administred
privately
to
any
one
where-ever
he
be
found
;
but
that
were
very
irregular
and
against
the
common
doctrine
of
Protestant
Divines
,
who
give
large
testimony
against
private
Baptism
,
or
of
the
Lords
▪
supper
,
neither
doe
we
see
any
weight
in
the
arguments
of
the
Papists
or
Anabaptists
alledged
for
the
contrary
.
Argum.
4.
Lest
we
seem
to
stand
alone
in
this
controversies
,
let
the
arguments
produced
by
Didoclavius
,
and
him
that
writes
concerning
Perth
Assembly
against
private
Baptisms
,
be
considered
,
and
it
will
be
found
that
most
of
them
doe
strongly
conclude
against
administration
thereof
to
any
but
Church-members
.
Argum.
5.
The
learned
Author
Mr.
Ball
in
this
his
dispute
against
our
Conclusion
:
yet
in
his
Discourse
let
fall
sund●y
▪
things
that
confirm
it
;
as
when
he
describes
the
Catholick
Church
to
be
the
Society
Page
22.
of
men
professing
the
faith
of
Christ
,
divided
into
many
particular
Churches
.
Whence
we
argue
,
if
the
Catholick
church
existeth
onely
in
these
particular
Churches
,
the
seales
must
onely
be
given
to
them
and
the
members
thereof
;
also
,
That
Baptism
is
a
solemn
admission
Page
68.
into
the
Church
of
Christ
,
and
must
of
necessity
be
administred
in
a
particular
Society
:
Whence
three
things
will
follow
;
First
,
that
Baptism
sometimes
administred
privately
by
the
Apostles
is
not
an
ordinary
pattern
.
Secondly
,
that
Baptism
is
not
to
be
administred
to
beleevers
(
as
such
)
immediatly
,
if
of
▪
necessity
it
must
be
administred
in
a
particular
Society
.
Thirdly
,
joyning
to
some
particular
Society
being
an
Ordinance
of
God
of
so
great
concernment
;
&
if
Baptism
must
be
administred
in
it
,
why
ought
not
,
why
may
not
such
joyn
to
that
Society
?
(
at
least
as
members
for
a
time
.
)
Also
when
he
saith
divers
times
,
That
men
are
made
members
of
the
Church
by
Baptism
,
(
speaking
of
such
Churches
as
choose
Officers
over
them
;
)
yea
,
that
the
Apostles
constituted
Chrches
by
Baptism
,
and
the
like
,
(
which
we
shall
note
in
the
answer
;
)
Now
what
doe
these
argue
but
a
yeelding
of
the
cause
?
for
if
the
Apostles
made
members
,
and
constituted
Churches
by
Baptism
,
this
was
onely
sacramentally
,
and
if
so
,
then
of
necessity
they
must
be
really
members
of
such
Churches
before
Baptism
.
Thus
we
have
run
through
this
large
field
of
the
Catholick
and
particular
Church
,
which
hath
detained
us
longer
then
we
intended
;
yet
,
to
prevent
mistakes
from
any
thing
that
have
been
said
concerning
the
union
,
communion
,
and
combination
of
the
Churches
;
we
shall
add
these
two
things
.
1
We
observe
that
the
Scripture
speaks
of
the
Church
,
sometimes
as
One
body
,
sometimes
as
many
,
and
therefore
called
Churches
;
and
hence
our
care
is
to
preserve
not
onely
the
distinction
of
Churches
,
(
as
many
by
particular
combinations
)
but
also
their
unity
,
as
being
one
by
spirituall
relation
.
2
Association
of
divers
particular
Churches
we
hold
needfull
,
as
well
as
the
combination
of
members
into
one
;
yet
so
as
there
be
no
schism
of
one
from
another
,
nor
usurpation
of
one
over
another
,
that
either
one
should
deprive
the
rest
of
peace
by
schism
;
or
many
should
deprive
any
one
of
its
power
by
usurpation
;
hence
a
fraternall
consociation
we
acknowledge
;
consociation
we
say
,
for
mutuall
counsell
and
helpe
,
to
prevent
or
remove
sinne
and
schism
;
yet
fraternall
onely
,
to
preserve
each
others
power
;
consociation
of
Churches
we
would
have
cumulative
,
(
not
in
words
,
but
in
deed
)
to
strengthen
the
power
of
particular
Churches
,
not
privative
,
to
take
away
any
power
which
they
had
from
the
gift
of
Christ
before
.
For
as
on
the
one
side
it
may
seem
strange
that
One
Church
offending
should
have
no
means
of
cure
by
the
conceived
power
of
many
;
so
on
the
other
side
the
danger
may
appear
as
great
,
and
frequently
falls
out
,
that
when
many
Churches
are
scandalous
,
one
innocent
Church
may
be
hurt
by
the
usurpation
of
all
.
And
hence
we
see
not
,
but
that
fraternall
consociation
is
the
best
medicine
to
heal
the
wounds
of
both
.
We
utterly
dislike
such
Independency
as
that
which
is
maintained
by
contempt
,
or
carelesse
neglect
of
sister
Churches
;
Faciunt
favos
&
vespae
,
faciunt
Ecclesias
&
Marcionitae
,
saith
Ter●ullian
.
Tertul.
lib.
4.
Com.
Mar.
We
utterly
dislike
such
dependency
of
Churches
upon
others
,
as
is
built
upon
usurpations
and
spoils
of
particular
Churches
.
Having
thus
largely
digressed
for
the
clearing
of
the
foundation
of
the
dispute
in
hand
,
we
desire
to
be
excused
if
we
be
the
more
brief
in
our
answers
to
particulars
,
which
now
we
shall
attend
unto
as
they
lye
in
order
.
CHAP.
VI.
Reply
.
THe
seals
are
given
unto
the
Church
not
onely
in
ordinary
,
(
as
you
say
)
but
also
in
extraordinary
dispensation
,
&c.
And
when
you
say
,
the
dispensing
of
the
seals
is
an
ordinance
given
onely
for
the
edifying
of
the
Church
gathered
,
must
it
not
be
understood
of
extraordinary
dispensation
as
well
as
of
ordinary
,
&c.
added
these
words
[
ordinary
dispensation
]
were
,
to
prevent
the
objection
which
you
foresaw
might
be
made
from
the
Apostles
practice
and
example
,
but
so
as
they
cut
asunder
the
sinews
of
the
consideration
it self
,
and
make
it
of
no
force
.
Answ.
Before
we
come
to
the
particulars
of
the
Reply
,
it
is
needfull
to
clear
our
meaning
from
this
mistake
about
the
word
[
ordinary
dispensation
;
]
which
being
rightly
understood
,
it
will
appear
that
it
no
way
cuts
the
sinews
of
the
consideration
as
is
objected
.
For
whereas
,
first
,
you
extend
the
opposite
term
,
[
extraordinary
dispensation
]
to
the
whole
generall
practice
of
the
Apostles
and
Evangelists
;
and
secondly
,
take
it
for
granted
,
that
their
practice
was
not
to
baptize
members
of
particular
Churches
:
we
neither
intended
the
first
,
nor
doe
we
grant
the
second
;
as
for
the
first
,
we
acknowledge
freely
that
the
Apostles
and
Evangelists
ordinarily
and
generally
practiced
according
to
comon
rules
in
this
point
of
baptizing
,
as
well
as
in
other
,
and
left
their
practice
for
our
pattern
,
and
therefore
their
ordinary
practice
in
this
thing
we
shall
stick
to
;
yet
they
having
not
onely
extraordinary
power
above
Pastors
and
Teachers
,
but
also
having
sometime
an
immediate
call
unto
some
acts
and
speciall
guidance
of
the
Spirit
to
warrant
what
they
did
,
therefore
there
were
some
of
their
actions
,
especially
in
respect
of
some
circumstances
thereof
,
which
ordinary
Pastors
(
not
so
assisted
)
may
not
doe
;
as
in
this
case
when
they
baptized
in
private
houses
,
in
the
wildernesse
alone
,
and
not
in
the
face
of
a
Congregation
,
&c.
and
therefore
if
in
some
few
cases
some
doe
think
they
did
not
baptize
into
a
particular
Church
;
yet
if
their
ordinary
practice
were
otherwise
,
we
ought
to
imitate
the
ordinary
,
not
some
extraordinary
cases
;
and
thus
the
sinews
and
force
of
the
consideration
remains
strong
,
notwithstanding
this
word
of
[
ordinary
dispensation
:
]
and
that
this
was
our
meaning
,
was
not
hard
to
discern
,
by
the
Scriptures
cited
in
the
answer
,
to
prove
the
seales
are
given
unto
the
Church
in
ordinary
dispensation
,
amongst
which
,
Acts
2.
41
,
42
,
47.
containing
the
Apostles
first
practice
in
this
kinde
are
expressed
;
and
Mr.
Ball
took
notice
thereof
,
as
appears
by
his
own
reference
to
the
same
afterwards
,
though
in
his
printed
Reply
those
quotations
bee
wholly
left
out
:
2
Let
us
consider
whether
the
Apostles
ordinarily
did
not
baptize
into
particular
Churches
;
and
this
may
be
proved
from
the
stories
of
their
ordinary
practice
:
First
,
it
will
be
easily
granted
that
the
Apostles
did
gather
disciples
into
particular
visible
Churches
,
but
there
is
no
other
time
or
season
of
doing
it
can
be
shewed
in
all
the
stories
of
their
Acts
;
yea
,
sometimes
they
were
so
suddenly
called
away
,
or
enforced
away
by
persecution
after
they
had
converted
disciples
,
that
it
is
very
improbable
,
if
not
impossible
,
they
should
do
it
at
all
,
but
when
they
converted
and
baptized
them
,
as
Acts
16
,
40.
&
17.
5.
&c.
But
to
come
more
particularly
unto
the
story
it self
,
the
Apostles
first
,
and
exemplary
practi●●
being
the
best
interpreter
of
their
commission
,
and
of
their
ordinary
proceeding
therein
;
the
first
converts
which
the
Apostles
baptized
after
the
visible
kingdom
of
Christ
was
set
up
▪
were
those
in
that
famous
place
,
Acts
2.
41.
concerning
whom
observe
,
first
;
that
the
Apostle
Peter
not
onely
preached
unto
them
repentance
and
faith
in
the
name
of
Christ
,
with
promise
of
remission
of
sins
,
and
that
they
should
be
baptized
,
but
according
to
that
commission
,
Mat.
28.
with
many
other
words
he
exhorted
them
,
saying
,
Save
your selves
from
this
untoward
generation
,
being
the
very
scope
of
his
exhortation
;
and
this
implies
a
gathering
of
themselves
to
the
fellowship
of
the
saints
;
and
al
this
Word
they
gladly
received
before
they
were
baptized
.
2
When
the
holy
Ghost
,
vers.
41.
declareth
their
baptizing
,
he
records
withall
their
adding
to
them
,
the
latter
being
an
exegesis
of
the
former
,
and
that
the
same
day
,
as
being
performed
at
the
same
time
;
and
indeed
when
a
convert
publickly
professeth
his
faith
in
Christ
,
is
it
not
as
easily
done
,
to
receive
▪
him
to
a
particular
visible
Church
,
as
into
the
Catholick
before
Baptism
;
but
first
to
baptize
them
,
and
then
the
same
day
to
add
or
joyn
them
to
the
Church
,
is
altogether
unprobable
.
And
that
this
adding
was
to
a
particular
Church
,
is
sufficiently
proved
before
.
The
next
place
you
may
note
,
is
Acts
5.
14.
where
the
Holy
Ghost
omitting
the
baptizing
of
those
beleevers
,
yet
speaks
of
their
adding
to
the
Lord
,
as
if
the
one
implyed
,
the
other
;
and
that
their
adding
to
the
Lord
,
was
by
their
joyning
to
the
Church
,
is
evident
by
the
opposition
between
verse
13
&
14
Of
the
rest
durst
no
man
joyn
himself
to
them
,
but
beleevers
were
the
more
added
to
the
Lord
.
3
In
the
conversion
of
Samaria
,
although
so
great
a
work
is
declared
in
so
few
words
in
one
verse
,
Act.
8
,
12.
yet
the
text
puts
a
manifest
distinction
of
Philips
doctrine
between
the
things
of
the
Kingdom
of
God
,
and
the
name
of
Jesus
Christ
:
which
plainly
enough
sheweth
,
that
they
taught
the
observing
of
the
order
of
the
Kingdom
of
Christ
,
as
well
as
the
Doctrine
of
the
name
of
Christ
,
the
object
of
saving
faith
.
And
this
they
received
by
faith
,
and
professed
before
they
were
baptized
.
Now
the
first
and
most
famous
examples
of
the
Apostles
perswading
that
so
they
practised
,
why
should
we
doubt
of
their
like
practice
in
other
examples
when
nothing
,
is
said
that
contradicteth
the
same
?
as
Acts
10.
in
the
baptizing
of
Cornelius
his
house
,
where
so
many
were
met
,
and
the
Holy
Ghost
fell
on
all
;
why
should
we
think
the
Apostle
Peter
baptized
them
,
and
left
them
out
of
the
order
of
Christ
,
wherein
they
should
worship
him
,
and
be
edified
in
the
faith
?
If
we
doubt
of
it
,
because
the
Scripture
is
silent
therein
,
we
may
as
well
question
whether
those
beleevers
,
Acts
4.
4.
&
9.
35.
&
vers.
42.
whether
any
of
these
confessed
their
faith
,
or
were
baptized
,
for
nothing
is
said
thereof
:
So
likewise
Acts
11.
where
we
read
of
many
beleeving
,
turning
to
the
Lord
,
vers.
21.
of
the
adding
others
to
the
Lord
,
vers.
24.
but
nothing
of
their
confession
of
faith
or
baptism
,
and
yet
they
are
called
a
Church
;
whereby
it
appears
that
the
holy
Ghost
sometime
expresseth
their
baptism
without
joyning
to
the
Church
;
and
sometimes
joyning
without
baptism
,
and
sometime
he
expresseth
both
,
Acts
2.
41.
And
therefore
hence
we
may
conclude
the
like
of
the
case
of
Lydia
and
the
Jaylor
;
considering
the
former
practice
of
the
Apostles
:
and
that
the
Apostle
speaks
so
expresly
of
a
Church
at
Philippi
in
the
beginning
of
the
Gospel
,
Phil.
4.
at
which
time
we
have
no
more
conversions
expressed
but
of
those
two
families
;
at
least
,
they
were
the
most
eminent
fruits
of
Pauls
Ministery
at
that
time
;
and
it
is
very
probable
the
Church
was
gathered
in
Lydia's
house
,
seeing
Paul
going
out
of
prison
to
her
house
,
he
is
said
to
see
the
Brethren
,
and
comfort
them
,
so
departing
,
verse
40.
Besides
;
why
might
not
the
Apostle
baptize
them
into
that
particular
visible
Church
in
such
a
case
,
as
well
as
into
the
Catholick
,
or
all
Churches
,
as
some
say
,
they
professing
subjection
to
Christ
in
every
ordinance
of
his
,
with
reference
to
that
Church
he
had
there
constituted
?
The
fulnesse
of
power
in
the
Apostles
might
doe
greater
matters
without
breach
of
order
,
though
no
rule
for
us
so
to
do
;
neither
is
it
strange
from
the
practice
of
those
times
to
begin
a
Church
in
a
family
,
seeing
the
Apostle
speaks
of
Churches
in
three
severall
families
,
Rom.
16.
5.
Col.
4.
15.
Phil.
2.
which
though
many
understand
to
be
called
Churches
in
regard
of
the
godlinesse
of
those
families
;
yet
i●
we
consider
;
First
,
how
many
eminent
Saints
the
Apostle
salutes
,
(
who
no
doubt
●ad
godly
families
)
not
so
much
as
naming
their
housholds
;
much
lesse
giving
them
such
a
title
,
but
onely
to
these
three
named
.
Secondly
,
how
distinct
his
salutations
are
,
first
the
Governors
,
and
then
the
Church
in
their
house
.
Thirdly
,
that
the
Apostle
doth
not
onely
send
his
salutations
to
the
Church
in
the
house
of
Aquila
and
Priscilla
,
Rom.
16.
5.
but
also
keeping
the
name
of
a
Church
,
he
sends
salutations
from
that
Church
to
the
Church
of
Corinth
,
1
Cor.
16.
19.
All
which
doe
strongly
argue
there
is
more
in
it
,
then
that
they
were
godly
families
,
and
therefore
may
perswade
us
that
there
were
indeed
constituted
Churches
in
those
Families
,
though
other
Christians
also
might
joyn
with
them
.
Thus
having
cleared
our
meaning
,
and
the
consideration
it self
,
there
will
remain
very
few
extraordinary
cases
,
(
if
any
)
of
whom
it
can
be
proved
,
they
were
not
joyned
to
some
particular
Church
when
baptized
;
as
that
of
the
Eunuch
,
which
as
it
was
done
by
an
extraordinary
immediate
call
of
Philip
so
to
doe
;
so
also
there
was
a
speciall
reason
thereof
,
the
Lord
intending
thereby
,
rather
by
him
to
send
the
Gospel
into
Ethiopia
,
then
to
retain
him
in
any
other
place
,
to
joyn
with
his
Church
:
And
the
Baptism
of
Paul
,
who
as
without
the
Ministery
of
the
Word
he
was
converted
by
the
immediate
voice
of
Christ
,
so
he
was
baptized
by
the
immediate
call
of
Ananias
so
to
do
.
Now
let
us
proceed
to
consider
what
further
is
replyed
.
Reply
.
The
seals
Baptism
and
the
Lords-supper
are
given
to
the
Church
,
not
onely
in
ordinary
,
but
also
extraordinary
dispensation
:
True
Baptism
is
not
without
the
Church
,
but
in
it
,
an
ordinance
given
to
it
.
The
Sacraments
are
the
seales
of
the
Covenant
to
the
faithfull
,
which
is
the
form
of
the
Church
tokens
and
pledges
of
our
spirituall
admittance
into
the
Lords
family
.
Hence
it
is
inferred
,
that
if
the
seales
in
extraordinary
dispensation
were
given
to
the
Church
,
and
yet
to
members
of
no
particular
Church
,
then
also
in
ordinary
dispensation
it
may
be
so
.
Answ.
1
It
will
not
follow
;
for
first
,
if
the
Apostle
in
extraordinary
cases
baptized
privately
,
will
it
follow
that
in
ordinary
dispensation
it
may
be
so
?
Secondly
,
if
because
the
Ministery
be
given
to
the
Church
,
and
extraordinary
Officers
were
not
limited
to
particular
Churches
;
will
it
therefore
follow
that
in
ordinary
dispensations
,
Ministers
ought
not
to
be
given
onely
to
particular
churches
?
Thirdly
,
as
we
have
oft
said
,
that
seals
belong
de
jure
to
all
beleevers
,
as
such
,
as
members
of
the
Catholick
church
,
(
they
being
given
unto
it
firstly
,
as
to
its
object
and
end
)
and
all
that
are
truly
baptized
,
are
baptized
into
it
,
and
thus
never
out
of
it
,
as
being
tokens
of
our
spirituall
admittance
into
the
Lords
family
both
in
ordinary
and
extraordinary
dispensation
;
but
doth
it
hence
follow
that
actuall
fruition
of
the
seales
(
of
which
the
question
is
stated
)
may
ordinarily
be
had
or
given
to
such
as
set
loose
from
all
societies
?
the
Apostles
had
extraordinary
power
,
being
generall
Pastors
over
all
persons
beleeving
as
well
as
Churches
;
and
therfore
at
some
times
by
speciall
guidance
of
the
Spirit
they
might
doe
that
which
ordinary
Pastors
may
not
do
.
Reply
.
Secondly
,
as
the
seals
,
so
the
Word
of
salvation
preached
and
received
,
is
a
priviledge
of
the
Church
,
&c.
If
by
preaching
be
meant
the
giving
of
the
Word
unto
a
people
,
to
abide
and
continue
with
them
,
and
consequently
the
receiving
of
it
at
least
in
profession
,
then
it
is
proper
to
the
church
of
God
.
Answ
▪
We
grant
,
(
in
some
sense
)
it
is
a
priviledge
,
and
proper
to
the
Church
so
to
have
the
Word
;
but
this
no
way
takes
away
the
difference
between
the
Seals
and
the
Word
,
which
the
answer
makes
,
viz
That
the
Word
is
not
such
a
peculiar
priviledge
of
the
Church
as
the
Seals
,
in
that
the
one
is
dispensed
not
onely
to
the
Church
,
but
also
to
others
for
the
gathering
of
them
,
which
is
not
so
in
the
Seals
,
for
the
Word
of
God
received
in
Corinth
abiding
with
them
,
professed
of
them
,
was
not
so
peculiar
,
but
an
Idiot
comming
in
might
partake
in
the
same
,
but
not
so
in
the
Sacraments
,
1
Cor.
14.
Reply
.
The
Word
makes
Disciples
,
the
Word
given
unto
a
people
is
Gods
covenanting
with
them
,
and
the
peoples
receiving
this
Word
,
and
professing
their
faith
in
God
through
Jesus
Christ
,
is
the
taking
of
God
to
be
their
God
,
the
laws
and
statutes
which
God
gave
unto
Israel
,
were
a
testimony
that
God
hath
separated
them
from
all
other
people
:
the
Word
of
reconciliation
is
sent
and
given
to
the
world
reconciled
in
Iesus
Christ
,
and
they
that
receive
the
Doctrine
,
Law
,
or
Word
of
God
,
are
the
disciples
,
servants
,
and
people
of
God
.
Answ.
In
these
words
,
and
that
which
follows
in
the
second
Paragraph
,
there
seems
to
be
a
double
scope
:
First
,
to
prove
the
Word
proper
to
the
Church
;
to
which
is
answered
afore
.
Secondly
,
that
where-ever
the
Word
of
God
is
,
there
is
the
true
visible
Church
;
and
so
where
the
true
Worship
of
God
is
,
there
is
a
mark
of
the
Church
,
especially
where
it
is
received
and
confessed
.
To
which
we
answer
:
1
There
is
a
covenanting
between
God
and
man
,
which
is
personall
,
and
so
whosoever
receives
the
Word
of
Gods
grace
by
faith
sent
unto
him
by
God
,
enters
into
Covenant
to
be
his
,
and
that
before
he
makes
any
visible
profession
thereof
,
and
so
every
beleever
is
a
disciple
,
a
servant
of
God
,
and
one
of
Gods
people
,
but
many
thousands
of
these
considered
onely
in
this
their
personall
relation
to
God
,
doe
not
make
a
visible
Church
,
many
such
might
be
in
the
world
,
but
no
members
of
the
visible
Church
,
until
they
came
and
joyned
to
the
Church
of
Israel
of
Old
,
or
to
the
visible
Churches
in
the
New
Testament
.
2
There
is
a
sociall
or
common
covenanting
between
God
and
a
people
,
to
be
a
God
to
them
,
and
they
a
people
unto
God
in
outward
visible
profession
of
his
Worship
;
and
so
the
Lord
took
Abraham
and
his
seed
into
Covenant
,
and
renewed
that
Covenant
with
them
,
as
an
holy
Nation
and
peculiar
people
to
him
;
and
in
this
covenanting
of
God
with
a
people
,
whereby
they
become
a
Church
,
there
is
required
,
first
,
that
they
be
many
,
not
one
.
Secondly
,
that
these
many
become
one
body
,
one
people
.
Thirdly
,
that
they
make
visible
profession
of
their
Covenant
with
God
really
,
or
vocally
.
Fourthly
,
that
this
Covenant
contain
a
profession
of
subjection
to
the
ordinances
of
Gods
Worship
,
wherein
God
requires
a
Church
to
walk
together
before
him
:
and
all
these
may
be
seen
in
the
Church
of
Israel
,
who
received
Gods
laws
indeed
,
but
so
as
they
became
one
people
to
God
,
visibly
avouched
God
for
their
God
,
received
and
submitted
unto
all
the
laws
of
his
Worship
,
Government
,
and
other
Ordinances
.
And
this
is
expresly
or
implicitly
in
every
true
visible
Church
,
though
more
or
lesse
fully
and
purely
.
Now
if
you
intend
such
a
covenanting
of
a
people
with
God
,
by
a
professed
receiving
of
his
Word
,
and
subjection
to
his
Ordinances
;
we
grant
such
to
be
true
Churches
,
and
to
such
the
seals
do
belong
;
and
therefore
we
willingly
close
with
the
Conclusion
that
follows
,
They
that
have
received
the
Word
of
salvation
entirely
,
and
have
Pastors
godly
and
faithfull
to
feed
and
guide
them
,
they
and
their
seed
have
right
to
the
seals
in
order
.
And
they
that
joyn
together
in
the
true
Worship
of
God
,
according
to
his
will
,
with
godly
and
faithfull
Pastors
,
they
have
right
to
the
sacraments
,
according
to
Divine
institution
.
These
conclusions
we
willingly
embrace
,
and
inferr
,
that
if
the
seals
belong
to
such
a
Church
,
then
to
particular
Congregations
.
For
where
shall
we
finde
a
people
joyning
together
with
godly
Pastors
,
but
in
such
particular
Assemblies
?
For
we
doubt
not
our
Brethren
doe
disclaim
all
Diocesan
Pastors
or
Provinciall
,
&c.
Reply
.
That
there
is
now
no
visible
Catholick
Church
in
your
sense
,
will
easily
be
granted
,
&c.
If
this
be
granted
in
our
sense
,
so
that
there
be
no
such
Catholick
church
wherein
seals
are
to
be
dispensed
;
then
it
will
fall
to
be
the
right
and
priviledge
of
particular
Congregations
,
to
have
the
seals
in
the
administration
proper
to
them
;
and
so
the
cause
is
yeelded
;
but
because
there
is
so
much
here
spoken
of
the
Catholick
visible
Church
,
and
so
much
urged
from
it
,
we
shall
refer
the
Reader
to
what
is
said
before
,
onely
one
thing
we
shall
note
about
the
instance
of
Athanasius
,
that
a
man
may
be
a
member
of
the
Catholick
visible
Church
,
but
of
no
particular
Society
.
Reply
.
You
say
it
is
evidenced
,
in
that
a
Christian
(
as
Athanasius
for
an
example
)
may
be
cut
off
unjustly
from
the
particular
visible
Church
,
wherein
he
was
born
,
and
yet
remains
a
member
of
the
Catholick
visible
orthodox
Church
.
Answ.
This
case
proves
nothing
;
for
look
how
such
a
Christian
stands
to
the
Catholick
,
so
he
stands
to
the
particular
Church
:
if
he
be
unjustly
censured
,
as
he
remains
before
God
a
member
of
the
Catholick
,
so
also
the
particular
Church
,
for
clavis
errans
non
ligat
:
and
in
respect
of
men
,
and
communion
with
other
Churches
in
the
seals
,
if
they
receive
him
,
being
satisfied
that
he
is
unjustly
cast
out
;
they
may
receive
him
,
not
for
his
generall
interest
in
the
Catholick
church
,
but
in
respect
of
his
true
membership
in
the
particular
Church
,
that
unjustly
cast
him
out
:
Whereas
,
if
the
Churches
were
not
perswaded
but
that
he
were
justly
cast
out
of
the
particular
,
they
ought
not
to
admit
him
to
seales
,
were
he
as
Orthodox
as
Athanasius
himself
in
doctrine
,
and
as
holy
in
his
life
.
Reply
.
Though
there
be
no
universall
Congregation
,
nor
can
be
imagined
,
yet
there
are
and
have
been
many
visible
Assemblies
or
Societies
,
true
Churches
of
Christ
,
to
whom
the
prerogative
of
the
seals
is
given
,
which
have
not
been
united
and
knit
together
into
one
Congregation
or
Society
in
Church-order
.
For
every
Society
in
Covenant
with
God
,
is
the
true
Church
of
God
.
For
what
is
it
to
be
the
flock
,
people
,
or
sheep
of
God
,
but
to
be
the
Church
of
God
?
and
where
there
is
a
Covenant
,
there
is
the
people
of
God
,
&c.
Answ.
This
assertion
seems
to
us
very
strange
to
fall
from
that
reverend
and
learned
Author
,
being
a
foundation
of
many
inconveniences
and
absurdities
,
and
tending
to
overthrow
the
order
of
Christ
in
his
visible
Churches
▪
For
,
First
,
if
this
be
so
,
that
every
Society
in
Covenant
with
God
,
be
the
Church
of
God
,
then
men
may
set
up
as
many
Forms
of
visible
Churches
as
they
please
,
(
if
the
people
be
in
Covenant
with
God
visibly
at
least
)
the
Archdeacon
with
his
Commissary
,
Priests
,
Churchwardens
,
&c.
being
in
Covenant
with
God
,
are
a
true
Church
:
So
the
Diocesan
Bishop
in
his
Cathedrall
with
his
Clergy
,
or
any
such
Assembly
,
are
the
Church
of
God
;
or
what
other
form-soever
men
will
devise
,
may
goe
for
the
Church
of
God
,
and
to
them
belong
the
seals
,
and
(
you
may
as
wel
say
)
discipline
,
and
all
Ordinances
of
God
,
if
they
bee
the
true
Church
.
Secondly
,
upon
this
ground
every
company
of
godly
Christistians
in
Covenant
with
God
,
meeting
in
fasting
,
prayer
,
&c.
are
the
true
Church
of
God
,
and
to
them
(
as
such
)
the
seals
belong
,
and
sending
for
a
true
Minister
of
the
Catholick
church
,
they
may
have
Baptism
and
the
Lords-supper
administred
,
and
by
the
same
reason
discipline
also
:
yea
,
if
but
two
or
three
(
as
you
say
)
being
in
Covenant
with
God
,
meet
together
in
their
travail
at
an
Inne
,
&c.
are
the
Church
of
God
,
especially
every
Christian
family
is
the
Church
;
for
they
professe
the
entire
faith
,
joyn
(
daily
)
in
prayer
and
thanksgiving
,
receive
the
truth
of
God
to
dwell
amongst
them
,
are
in
some
measure
obedient
unto
the
commands
of
God
,
and
in
Covenant
with
God
:
And
therefore
being
the
Church
of
God
,
why
not
call
for
a
Minister
,
and
have
seals
ordinarily
dispensed
to
them
?
Thirdly
,
upon
this
ground
a
company
of
Christian
Women
in
Covenant
with
God
are
a
Church
,
to
whom
the
seales
belong
;
and
who
sees
not
,
how
all
orderly
dispensation
of
Gods
Ordinances
,
and
the
whole
order
of
visible
Churches
in
the
Gospel
would
be
overturned
by
this
assertion
?
We
verily
beleeve
this
Author
was
far
from
admitting
these
things
,
but
the
Position
it self
will
unavoidably
enforce
the
same
.
Neither
can
we
impute
this
assertion
to
any
inconsideratenesse
through
heat
of
disputation
.
For
if
any
shall
maintain
the
personall
Covenant
of
people
with
God
to
be
sufficient
to
constitute
visible
Churches
,
and
not
admit
a
necessity
of
a
more
publick
or
generall
Covenant
explicite
or
implicite
,
whereby
a
company
of
Christians
are
made
one
people
,
joyning
in
one
Congregation
to
worship
God
in
his
holy
Ordinances
,
and
walk
together
in
his
ways
,
they
must
of
necessity
acknowledge
every
Society
in
Covenant
with
God
to
be
a
Church
,
as
here
is
said
;
and
therefore
admit
all
forms
of
Churches
,
and
all
Families
,
&c.
to
be
Churches
,
and
so
bring
in
the
confusion
objected
,
which
we
desire
may
well
bee
considered
.
All
your
Arguments
stand
upon
that
ground
of
personall
covenant
with
God
,
which
is
too
weak
to
bear
up
that
conclusion
,
to
make
all
such
visible
Churches
to
whom
the
seals
belong
,
as
the
absurd
consequences
thereof
shew
.
These
Reasons
,
and
the
Scriptures
in
the
margent
(
some
of
them
)
will
prove
them
fit
matter
for
visible
Churches
,
and
that
they
have
a
remote
right
unto
the
seals
of
that
Covenant
,
(
which
we
grant
)
but
they
will
not
prove
every
Society
of
such
to
bee
true
Churches
,
having
immediate
right
to
have
the
seals
dispensed
unto
them
.
Reply
.
Fifthly
,
If
it
be
granted
that
the
seals
are
the
prerogative
of
particular
visible
Churches
,
known
and
approved
Christians
amongst
us
are
members
of
such
Churches
,
and
so
to
be
esteemed
amongst
you
,
&c.
and
every
visible
beleever
professing
the
pure
entire
faith
,
admitted
to
the
right
and
lawfull
participation
of
the
sacraments
,
is
a
visible
member
of
the
true
Church
,
if
he
hath
neither
renounced
the
Society
,
nor
deserved
justly
to
be
cast
out
by
excommunication
,
or
Church
censure
,
&c.
And
if
known
and
approved
Christians
,
members
of
our
Churches
comming
to
New-England
,
shall
desire
to
have
their
children
baptized
,
or
themselves
admitted
to
the
Lords-supper
,
before
they
be
set
members
amongst
you
;
we
desire
to
know
upon
what
grounds
from
God
you
can
deny
them
,
if
you
acknowledge
our
Churches
,
Ministery
and
Sacraments
to
be
true
,
(
as
you
professe
)
and
the
members
of
the
Church
be
known
and
approved
,
orderly
recommended
unto
you
.
Answ
▪
We
grant
all
this
here
expressed
for
the
substance
,
however
some
reasons
spoken
unto
before
intermixed
we
passe
over
,
and
to
your
question
we
frame
a
ready
answer
from
your
own
words
.
For
,
first
,
you
grant
,
that
if
such
members
have
renounced
that
Society
wherein
they
did
partake
of
the
seals
,
they
are
not
to
be
reputed
members
of
it
;
and
this
is
generally
the
case
of
all
approved
Christians
among
us
,
who
though
they
doe
not
so
renounce
the
Churches
that
bare
them
,
and
gave
them
suck
,
as
no
true
Churches
;
yet
seeing
they
were
grown
so
corrupt
many
ways
,
as
they
could
neither
enjoy
some
needfull
Ordinances
,
nor
partake
in
those
they
had
without
sin
,
they
have
therefore
renounced
and
forsaken
all
further
communion
with
them
,
and
membership
in
them
;
and
so
by
your
own
grant
,
neither
themselves
,
nor
the
Churches
here
can
take
them
as
members
of
your
Churches
,
to
receive
them
under
that
respect
.
Secondly
,
if
any
yet
have
not
so
far
renounced
those
Churches
they
belonged
unto
,
yet
they
are
not
orderly
recommended
unto
us
,
which
also
you
grant
ought
to
be
,
and
indeed
otherwise
we
may
oft
receive
persons
justly
excommunicate
,
or
such
as
are
no
members
of
Churches
any
where
,
or
otherwise
under
great
offence
,
as
frequent
examples
amongst
our selves
doe
shew
,
though
the
Church
may
think
well
of
such
as
offer
themselves
.
What
else
follows
in
this
Paragraph
,
is
the
same
in
substance
,
and
much
of
it
in
words
also
,
that
we
have
answered
before
;
and
therefore
we
passe
it
over
;
and
that
of
the
Jewish
Church
we
shall
speak
to
after
.
As
for
that
you
desire
leave
to
set
down
,
and
us
to
examine
what
may
be
objected
against
that
we
affirmed
,
That
the
distinct
Churches
named
in
the
New
Testament
were
Congregationall
Societies
;
we
shall
consider
as
followeth
:
Reply
.
The
number
of
beleevers
were
so
great
in
some
Cities
,
that
they
could
not
conveniently
meet
in
one
place
as
one
Assembly
to
worship
God
according
to
his
will
,
and
for
their
edifying
,
as
in
Samaria
,
Jerusalem
,
Antioch
,
Ephesus
.
Answ.
Although
we
expected
not
Objections
in
this
case
against
the
currant
Tenent
of
our
godly
Reformers
,
Baine
,
Parker
,
&c.
with
whom
we
joyn
;
and
we
might
refer
you
to
them
for
answer
to
this
beaten
Objection
of
the
Prelates
;
yet
we
are
not
unwilling
to
examine
what
is
said
in
this
digression
.
The
Argument
stands
thus
:
If
the
number
of
beleevers
were
so
great
in
some
City
,
as
could
not
meet
in
one
Assembly
to
edification
;
then
there
was
some
other
form
of
a
Church
besides
Congregationall
;
But
so
it
was
in
Samaria
,
&c
▪
Answ
.
We
deny
the
consequences
,
for
when
they
grew
to
so
great
a
number
,
they
might
fall
into
more
Congregationall
Churches
,
and
so
no
other
form
arise
from
the
multitude
;
but
we
suppose
you
mean
of
such
a
multitude
as
is
called
a
Church
;
and
therefore
to
answer
to
your
Assumption
,
we
deny
that
any
such
multitude
of
beleevers
as
is
here
called
a
Church
were
so
great
as
could
not
meet
to
edification
:
And
first
concerning
Samaria
.
Reply
.
That
there
was
a
Church
gathered
in
Samaria
,
will
not
be
denyed
,
for
they
received
the
Word
,
and
were
baptized
;
but
that
the
Church
in
that
City
was
onely
a
Congregationall
Assembly
,
is
more
then
can
probably
be
concluded
.
Answ.
We
grant
a
Church
or
Churches
were
gathered
in
Samaria
▪
and
we
accept
your
reason
as
good
,
because
they
received
the
Word
,
and
were
baptized
,
where
(
by
the
way
)
you
grant
what
we
pleaded
for
before
,
That
the
Apostles
gathered
Churches
,
when
they
baptized
them
:
but
that
there
was
but
one
Congregationall
Assembly
,
lyes
not
in
us
to
prove
,
untill
you
prove
that
all
the
beleevers
were
called
a
Church
,
or
one
Church
,
which
doth
not
appear
in
the
whole
story
,
Acts
8.
nor
any
other
where
that
we
can
finde
;
and
it
is
very
probable
that
as
Philip
converted
and
baptized
so
great
a
multitude
at
severall
times
,
and
gathered
them
into
the
Church
or
Churches
as
he
baptized
them
,
so
he
might
gather
severall
Churches
,
as
well
as
one
,
seeing
that
none
doubt
but
that
Congregationall
Churches
are
an
ordinance
of
Christ
,
what
ever
men
contend
for
beside
.
And
therefore
be
the
number
of
beleevers
in
Samaria
as
great
as
you
would
have
it
,
it
proves
nothing
.
Reply
.
The
Church
at
Jerusalem
was
one
,
and
distinct
,
yet
encreased
to
3000
,
then
to
5000
,
&c.
Answ.
Be
it
so
,
the
increase
was
very
great
;
yet
so
long
as
they
are
called
one
distinct
Church
,
it
was
one
Congregation
,
viz.
untill
they
scattering
by
the
persecution
about
Stephen
,
Acts
7.
8.
which
is
evident
by
these
two
arguments
.
First
,
Acts
2
41
,
&c.
where
we
see
the
3000
added
to
the
120.
they
have
their
communion
together
described
:
1
In
regard
of
their
spirituall
communion
,
to
be
in
the
Apostles
doctrine
,
fellowship
,
breaking
of
bread
and
Prayer
,
verse
42.
Secondly
,
in
regard
of
their
outward
communion
in
the
good
things
of
this
life
;
they
bad
all
things
common
,
and
sold
their
possessions
,
&c.
verse
44
,
&
45
:
Now
the
manner
of
both
parts
of
this
communion
in
respect
of
time
and
place
is
described
,
verse
46.
viz.
in
their
spirituall
duties
;
They
continued
daily
with
one
accord
in
the
Temple
.
And
secondly
,
in
respect
of
their
outward
communion
in
their
States
,
They
eat
their
meat
from
house
to
house
;
this
latter
requiring
many
tables
and
many
houses
to
provide
for
them
;
so
that
although
in
their
outward
communion
,
it
was
in
private
houses
,
yet
their
spirituall
communion
it
was
with
one
accord
in
one
place
,
viz.
the
Temple
,
where
they
had
room
enough
;
being
the
place
erected
for
a
Nationall
Church
;
and
having
favour
with
all
the
people
,
were
not
interrupted
therein
by
any
persecution
.
We
need
not
step
out
of
our
way
to
reply
to
all
that
is
said
against
this
reason
.
It
is
enough
for
us
to
note
,
that
they
daily
with
one
accord
met
,
and
that
in
the
Temple
,
which
is
not
answered
by
any
〈◊〉
〈◊〉
〈◊〉
〈◊〉
〈◊〉
,
or
〈◊〉
〈◊〉
〈◊〉
〈◊〉
〈◊〉
.
2
This
appeareth
,
Acts
6.
1
,
5.
where
it
is
evident
the
election
of
Deacons
was
before
,
and
by
the
multitude
,
verse
1.
by
the
whole
multitude
,
verse
5.
and
this
was
the
last
Church-meeting
and
Church-act
we
read
of
before
their
scattering
;
neither
can
it
appear
that
the
Jews
and
Grecians
,
whose
Widows
murmured
were
two
distinct
Congregations
;
but
the
contrary
is
evident
,
in
that
the
Deacons
were
chosen
al
by
the
whole
,
and
for
the
whole
,
not
distinctly
so
many
for
this
,
and
so
many
for
that
Church
,
as
it
was
needful
if
they
were
two
Churches
.
These
proofs
being
so
clear
,
the
inconveniences
objected
are
of
no
force
,
and
sufficiently
answered
by
many
examples
of
as
great
Assemblies
meeting
ordinarily
to
edification
;
as
beside
the
Auditory
of
Chrysostome
,
cited
by
others
;
the
Assemblies
of
Stepney
in
London
,
Y●rmouth
in
Norfolk
,
and
others
in
our
experience
.
Beza
,
a
man
not
loving
to
hyperbolize
,
saith
,
that
being
in
Paris
,
there
met
at
a
Sermon
[
](A93091-e13880-b)*
*
Calvin
Epist.
332.
24000.
And
of
a
Synodall
Assembly
that
they
received
the
Lords-supper
no
lesse
then
10000.
Beza
Epist.
65.
Reply
.
Without
question
the
number
of
beleevers
at
Antioch
was
not
small
,
of
which
it
is
expresly
said
,
That
a
great
number
beleeved
,
and
that
a
great
multitude
were
added
to
the
Lord
by
the
preaching
of
Barnabas
,
&c.
and
therefore
we
may
think
the
Church
rose
to
such
a
bignesse
as
could
not
well
assemble
in
one
Congregation
,
Acts
11.
21.
&
14.
27.
Answ.
1
In
that
place
,
Acts
11.
21.
the
great
number
that
beleeved
,
was
the
fruit
of
all
the
scattered
Christians
at
Phenice
,
Cyprus
,
and
Antioch
;
for
the
hand
of
the
Lord
was
with
them
all
,
and
their
whole
successe
is
summed
up
together
,
nothing
said
before
of
the
other
places
.
2
Though
Paul
and
Barnabas
taught
much
people
,
yet
it
proveth
not
that
this
much
people
were
converted
to
the
Church
.
3
Though
much
people
were
added
to
the
Lord
,
yet
doth
it
follow
they
were
more
then
could
meet
in
one
Congregation
?
and
if
first
Disciples
were
there
called
Christians
,
must
it
needs
be
for
their
number
,
and
not
rather
for
eminent
likeness
to
Christ
,
with
other
specialities
of
providence
?
4
It
is
expresly
said
,
the
Church
was
gathered
together
,
Acts
14.
27.
which
is
not
meant
of
the
Elders
onely
,
as
if
they
onely
could
meet
;
for
Chap.
15.
30.
They
gathered
the
multitude
together
;
so
that
it
was
not
such
a
number
but
might
meet
together
in
one
place
.
Reply
.
The
number
of
beleevers
was
great
at
Ephesus
,
where
Paul
preached
two
years
;
all
that
dwelt
in
Asia
heard
the
Word
;
a
great
door
and
effectuall
ways
open
to
him
,
where
the
Shrines
of
Diana
her
Temple
were
in
danger
to
be
set
at
nought
;
where
those
that
used
curious
arts
,
burnt
their
books
openly
:
which
could
not
be
done
without
great
danger
of
the
Church
,
unlesse
a
great
part
of
the
City
had
beleeved
,
Acts
19.
10
,
19
,
27.
Answ.
1
Be
it
so
,
that
many
were
converted
,
and
the
Word
grew
mightily
;
this
proves
not
that
all
who
heard
Paul
,
were
of
the
Church
of
Ephesus
,
for
then
all
Asia
should
be
of
that
Church
,
(
Acts
19.
10.
)
who
did
hear
the
Word
both
Jews
and
Gentiles
;
As
for
the
danger
of
the
Shrines
,
and
Diana's
Temple
to
be
set
at
nought
,
a
little
spark
might
kindle
such
fears
,
and
raise
such
outcryes
in
the
covetous
Craftsmen
,
by
whom
the
whole
City
was
set
in
a
superstitious
uproare
;
our
own
experience
may
teach
,
how
soon
a
prophane
people
will
cry
out
against
a
faithfull
Minister
before
he
hath
converted
ten
men
in
a
City
.
2
That
they
could
not
burn
their
books
openly
without
danger
to
the
Churches
,
except
a
great
part
of
the
City
beleeved
,
seems
a
strange
reason
:
as
if
beleevers
durst
not
professe
openly
,
except
they
had
a
great
number
to
maintain
them
with
club-law
:
open
profession
in
those
times
even
amongst
a
few
,
was
not
wont
to
be
daunted
with
the
grim
looks
of
persecution
.
3
And
lastly
,
we
grant
Ephesus
might
be
a
numerous
Church
;
yet
neither
there
,
nor
any
thing
that
is
said
from
Rev.
2.
7.
(
Hear
what
the
Spirit
saith
to
the
Churches
)
can
perswade
us
that
it
was
any
more
then
one
Congregation
;
for
that
argues
no
more
,
that
Ephesus
was
a
compound
of
many
Churches
,
then
that
it
was
compounded
with
all
the
other
six
Churches
of
Asia
;
yea
,
the
Churches
of
all
the
world
:
for
what
the
Spirit
speaketh
to
one
Church
,
is
spoken
for
the
use
of
all
.
Reply
.
It
is
not
essentiall
to
the
Church
to
meet
together
in
one
place
ordinarily
,
nor
is
the
Society
broken
off
by
persecution
,
when
their
meeting
together
in
one
place
be
interrupted
.
Answ.
It
is
true
;
one
Church
or
Society
by
persecution
or
otherwise
,
may
meet
in
severall
companies
;
neither
doe
we
say
,
that
place
,
or
meeting
in
one
place
,
is
properly
essentiall
to
the
Church
,
yet
it
is
necessary
both
necessitate
praecepti
&
medii
,
to
be
able
at
least
so
to
doe
:
for
though
it
be
not
necessary
to
the
unity
of
the
Society
thus
to
meet
together
,
yet
it
is
necessary
to
the
communion
thereof
in
all
Ordinances
.
It
is
not
necessary
to
the
unity
of
a
Classicall
Presbytery
to
meet
ordinarily
in
one
place
,
but
unto
the
communion
thereof
it
is
necessary
.
When
the
Papists
to
maintain
their
private
Masses
,
say
,
That
place
is
but
accidentall
to
the
ordinance
:
And
that
Christians
are
not
bound
to
the
circumstance
of
place
(
as
Hardin
objects
)
any
more
,
then
to
observe
dayes
,
moneths
,
times
,
condemned
as
beggerly
Elements
by
the
Apostle
,
Gal.
4.
As
also
,
that
all
the
faithfull
are
united
together
by
the
Sacrament
,
though
they
meet
not
in
the
same
place
,
as
the
Ancients
note
:
How
doth
learned
Chamier
answer
them
?
he
tels
Chamier
de
Euchar
.
cap.
13.
them
,
That
although
this
or
that
particular
place
is
not
necessary
,
yet
a
place
indefinitely
taken
is
:
And
that
the
Sacrament
is
restrained
to
be
administred
in
a
place
,
because
it
cannot
be
administred
but
conventu
fidelium
;
and
this
conventus
must
be
in
some
place
:
And
he
adds
,
That
although
all
the
faithfull
have
communion
in
the
Sacrament
,
though
they
meet
not
in
one
and
the
same
place
;
yet
this
(
he
saith
)
is
to
be
understood
of
spirituall
,
not
sacramentall
communion
;
Nunquam
enim
auditum
,
qui
Hierosolymis
erant
,
sacramentaliter
communicasse
cum
iis
qui
Alexandriae
:
and
therefore
he
thought
communion
in
one
place
together
necessary
to
Church-communion
,
as
wee
doe
.
Reply
.
Seventhly
,
Seeing
then
both
the
seals
in
ordinary
and
extraordinary
dispensation
,
&c.
Answ.
This
,
with
that
which
follows
,
being
but
a
recapitulation
of
the
severall
Replies
made
,
we
shall
leave
it
to
the
judicious
,
having
well
observed
our
answer
,
to
embrace
or
reject
the
Conclusion
.
CHAP.
VII
.
Consid.
2.
Reply
To
the
second
Consideration
of
the
Answer
.
THe
Proposition
is
granted
,
That
the
dispensation
of
the
Sacraments
both
ordinary
and
extraordinary
,
is
limited
to
the
Ministery
;
but
in
that
you
alledge
for
confirmation
some
things
may
be
noted
:
1
The
first
institution
of
Baptism
is
not
contained
in
that
passage
,
but
confirmed
,
for
the
seals
were
instituted
before
his
death
,
&c.
Answ.
The
Proposition
being
granted
,
and
the
proof
Mat.
28.
19.
being
(
we
doubt
not
)
pertinent
in
the
Authors
own
judgment
,
as
well
as
ours
;
Brotherly
love
might
easily
have
passed
over
greater
mistakes
then
the
answer
seems
to
have
fallen
into
:
for
,
by
First
institution
here
,
we
meant
no
more
,
then
that
it
is
the
ordinance
of
Christ
himself
,
instituted
in
that
first
time
of
all
Divine
ordinances
.
We
were
not
so
ignorant
to
think
there
was
no
use
,
and
so
no
institution
of
Baptism
before
the
death
of
Christ
;
and
therefore
this
confutation
might
have
been
spared
.
Reply
.
Secondly
,
We
see
not
how
you
can
apply
that
Text
,
Matth.
28
19.
to
preaching
by
Office
;
which
by
your
exposition
is
a
dispensing
of
a
fit
portion
to
every
one
of
the
household
;
and
it
is
plain
the
Apostles
were
sent
to
preach
to
every
creature
,
&c.
Answ.
As
if
that
commission
,
Matth.
28.
did
not
authorize
them
also
,
and
require
them
to
dispense
fit
portions
to
the
Churches
:
did
not
the
care
of
all
the
Churches
lye
on
the
Apostle
,
2
Cor.
11.
28.
so
also
1
Cor.
7.
17.
were
not
Apostles
given
to
the
Church
for
the
edifying
of
the
body
of
Christ
,
&c.
as
well
as
other
Officers
?
Ephes.
4.
11
,
12.
1
Cor.
12.
28.
and
therefore
this
note
also
might
well
have
been
spared
.
Reply
.
Thirdly
,
If
under
the
power
of
the
Keys
you
comprehend
preaching
by
Office
,
dispensing
seals
,
&c.
we
deny
the
power
of
the
Keys
to
belong
to
the
Church
,
or
community
of
the
faithfull
,
in
those
passages
which
speak
of
this
power
,
the
execution
of
this
authority
is
given
to
them
to
whom
the
authority
is
committed
.
Answ.
This
of
the
power
of
the
Keys
,
and
the
execution
thereof
,
was
onely
in
the
Answer
touched
by
the
way
,
to
prevent
the
objection
of
some
.
1
It
is
well
known
that
it
is
no
new
opinion
to
hold
,
that
the
Church
is
the
first
subject
of
the
Keys
,
and
to
alledge
Matth.
16.
&
18.
for
the
same
,
and
therefore
might
as
well
have
been
set
in
the
margent
;
many
ancient
Divines
,
and
our
own
Modern
,
as
Fulke
,
Whittaker
,
Baine
,
Parker
,
and
others
,
as
Robinson
,
if
there
were
not
a
desire
to
possesse
people
with
that
conceit
,
that
we
goe
in
new
ways
with
the
Separatists
alone
.
2
We
distinguish
between
power
and
authority
:
there
is
a
power
,
right
,
or
priviledge
,
as
Joh.
1.
12.
which
is
not
authority
properly
so
called
;
the
first
is
in
the
whole
Church
,
by
which
they
have
right
to
choose
Officers
,
Acts
6.
&
14.
receiving
members
,
&c.
Authority
(
properly
so
called
)
we
ascribe
onely
to
the
Officers
under
Christ
to
rule
and
govern
,
whom
the
Church
must
obey
.
Now
we
grant
that
where
authority
is
given
,
there
power
to
exercise
it
is
given
also
,
as
Mat.
28.
Joh.
20.
&c.
it
is
given
to
the
Apostles
and
Ministers
;
and
so
where
power
is
given
to
the
Church
,
there
power
to
exercise
the
same
orderly
is
given
also
,
as
Mat.
18.
1
Cor.
5.
2
Cor.
2.
10.
Reply
.
If
the
power
of
the
Keys
be
given
to
the
Church
,
the
Apostles
themselves
must
derive
their
authority
immediately
from
the
Church
,
and
not
from
Christ
;
for
the
power
must
be
derived
from
them
unto
whom
it
was
given
,
&c.
Answ.
We
deny
your
consequence
,
for
the
Lord
may
give
power
to
his
Church
in
all
ordinary
cases
,
and
yet
reserve
to
himself
that
prerogative
to
doe
what
he
please
immediately
without
the
Church
,
as
is
cleare
,
that
in
this
case
he
hath
,
first
calling
his
twelve
Apostles
,
Mat.
10.
before
he
instituted
the
Church
of
the
New
Testament
,
after
he
was
pleased
to
use
the
Ministery
of
the
Church
,
Acts
1.
to
choose
two
,
and
take
one
of
them
immediately
by
a
lot
;
and
when
Paul
was
called
he
appeared
to
him
immediatly
,
and
called
him
both
to
the
faith
,
and
to
his
Apostleship
,
whereby
it
is
clear
that
their
call
is
a
reserved
case
.
Reply
.
If
Ministers
dispense
the
seals
as
the
stewards
of
Christ
,
from
whom
they
receive
their
authority
immediately
;
then
the
power
of
the
Keys
is
not
in
the
community
of
the
faithfull
;
if
as
the
servants
of
the
Church
,
from
which
they
derive
their
authority
;
then
the
Office
of
a
Minister
is
not
the
immediate
gift
of
Christ
;
nor
the
Minister
so
much
the
servant
of
Christ
,
as
of
the
Church
from
whom
he
must
receive
Lawes
,
in
whose
names
he
must
doe
his
Office
,
and
to
whom
he
must
give
account
.
Answ.
This
Objection
will
hold
as
strongly
against
any
other
subject
of
the
Keys
that
can
bee
named
,
(
as
Classes
,
Synods
,
or
Church
Catholick
)
and
therefore
by
this
manner
of
reasoning
the
Lord
Jesus
must
doe
all
things
immediately
himself
in
choosing
Officers
,
&c.
or
else
his
Ministers
must
receive
Laws
,
doe
all
in
the
name
of
such
as
he
delegates
to
that
work
of
administration
under
him
,
and
therefore
let
others
look
to
answer
this
Objection
as
well
as
we
:
Our
answer
is
briefly
&
plainly
this
,
the
Office
is
the
immediate
institution
of
Christ
,
the
gifts
and
power
belonging
thereto
are
from
Christ
immediately
,
and
therefore
he
ministers
in
his
name
,
and
must
give
account
to
him
,
1
Pet.
5.
and
yet
his
outward
cal
to
this
Office
,
whereby
he
hath
authority
to
administer
the
holy
things
of
Christ
to
the
church
,
is
from
Christ
by
his
Church
,
and
this
makes
him
no
more
the
servant
of
the
Church
,
then
a
Captain
(
by
the
leave
of
the
Generall
)
chosen
by
the
Band
of
Souldiers
is
the
servant
of
his
Band.
Wee
see
in
this
reply
here
and
elsewhere
how
apt
men
are
to
cast
this
odium
upon
this
Doctrine
,
and
to
ranke
us
with
Separatists
in
it
,
but
it
is
easily
wiped
off
and
stickes
as
fast
upon
the
Classes
,
Synods
,
Catholick
Church
,
or
any
other
subject
of
this
power
.
Reply
.
If
the
communitie
of
the
faithfull
have
to
doe
in
all
matters
of
the
body
,
to
admit
members
cast
out
,
make
and
depose
Ministers
,
&c.
by
authority
from
Christ
,
wee
cannot
see
how
in
your
judgement
the
execution
of
the
power
of
the
Keys
is
concredited
to
the
Ministers
.
Answ.
If
the
power
,
priviledge
and
liberty
of
the
people
be
rightly
distinguished
from
the
authority
of
the
officers
as
it
ought
,
a
dim
sight
may
easily
perceive
how
the
execution
of
the
Keys
by
the
officers
authoritatively
may
stand
with
the
liberties
of
the
people
in
their
place
obedientially
following
and
concurring
with
their
guides
,
so
long
as
they
goe
along
with
Christ
their
King
and
his
Lawes
,
and
cleaving
in
their
obedience
to
Christ
dissenting
from
their
guides
,
when
they
forsake
Christ
in
their
ministrations
;
if
there
need
an
ocular
demonstration
hereof
,
it
is
at
hand
in
all
civill
administrations
wherein
the
execution
of
Laws
and
of
justice
in
the
hands
of
the
Judges
and
the
priviledge
power
or
liberty
of
the
people
in
the
hands
of
the
Jurours
.
Both
sweetly
concurre
in
every
case
both
civill
&
criminall
;
neither
is
the
use
of
a
Jury
onely
to
finde
the
fact
done
,
or
not
done
,
(
as
some
answer
this
instance
)
but
also
the
nature
and
degree
of
the
fact
in
reference
to
the
Law
that
awards
answerable
punishments
;
as
whether
the
fact
be
simple
theft
,
or
burglary
,
murder
or
manslaughter
,
&c.
and
so
in
cases
of
dammages
,
costs
in
civill
cases
;
whereby
it
appeares
,
that
although
the
power
and
priviledge
of
the
people
be
great
,
yet
the
execution
authoritatively
may
bee
wholly
in
the
Officers
.
Reply
.
Fourthly
,
That
which
you
adde
,
that
God
will
not
vouchsafe
his
presence
and
blessing
to
an
Ordinance
but
when
it
is
dispensed
by
those
whom
hee
hath
appointed
thereunto
,
must
be
warily
understood
,
or
it
may
occasion
errors
and
distractions
not
a
few
,
&c.
Answ.
Wee
shall
not
contradict
your
warinesse
in
this
case
,
for
wee
acknowledge
a
presence
of
God
with
his
Ordinances
administred
by
such
as
hee
appoints
,
though
some
corruptions
bee
admixed
,
in
the
entrance
and
administrations
;
but
wee
doubt
not
the
presence
and
blessing
of
God
is
more
or
lesse
according
to
the
purity
or
corruptions
of
the
administration
and
participation
of
his
Ordinances
:
but
what
need
there
was
,
or
use
of
this
note
wee
see
not
,
our
words
were
sound
,
and
safe
enough
,
but
it
seemes
your
tendernesse
of
the
standings
of
Ministers
and
Ordinances
in
England
occasioned
this
warinesse
,
and
wee
deny
not
what
you
say
,
that
Gods
presence
,
and
blessing
upon
his
ordinances
dispensed
by
us
gave
some
approbation
to
our
standing
and
to
his
Ordinances
,
the
Lord
mercifully
passing
over
our
many
corruptions
:
but
this
will
no
way
give
allowance
to
the
many
grosse
corruptions
,
and
defects
which
cleaved
to
our
standings
,
and
administrations
,
nor
to
the
continuance
of
any
in
such
corruptions
after
the
discovery
thereof
.
Reply
.
Secondly
,
As
for
the
assumption
,
that
Pastors
and
Teachers
are
limited
to
a
particular
Church
or
society
,
but
that
flock
is
not
ever
one
congregationall
assembly
meeting
in
one
place
,
neither
the
bond
so
straight
,
whereby
they
are
tyed
to
that
one
society
that
they
may
not
upon
occasion
performe
some
ministeriall
act
of
office
in
another
congregation
,
or
to
them
that
bee
not
set
members
of
their
proper
assembly
.
Answ.
For
clearing
of
the
the
assumption
,
that
wee
may
give
the
more
distinct
answer
,
wee
shall
take
leave
to
explicate
our selves
concerning
the
limitation
of
the
Ministery
to
the
Church
,
which
it
is
like
they
who
drew
up
the
answer
had
formerly
done
,
had
the
times
then
been
as
criticall
as
they
are
growne
since
.
1
▪
When
we
say
the
Ministery
is
limited
to
a
particular
Church
,
wee
doe
not
so
limit
it
to
a
Congregation
under
her
owne
Presbytery
,
as
to
exclude
from
communion
in
the
seales
,
many
Congregations
standing
under
one
common
Presbytery
,
as
wee
have
formerly
said
,
we
honour
the
reformed
Churches
of
Christ
Jesus
,
and
the
godly
members
thereof
.
2
▪
When
wee
say
the
seales
are
limited
to
a
particular
Church
or
Congregation
because
the
Ministery
is
so
limited
;
our
meaning
is
not
of
that
congregation
onely
whereof
the
Ministry
is
,
but
of
any
Congregation
in
generall
.
3
▪
When
wee
say
that
where
a
Minister
hath
no
power
,
he
may
not
do
an
act
of
power
,
this
is
to
be
so
understood
,
that
hee
cannot
performe
such
an
act
,
as
an
Officer
over
them
or
unto
them
as
to
his
proper
flock
,
the
office
being
(
as
wee
said
)
founded
in
the
relation
betweene
the
Church
and
the
Officer
,
such
a
stated
power
as
an
Officer
over
his
owne
flocke
,
hee
hath
not
to
those
of
other
Congregations
partaking
in
his
owne
Church
,
or
in
any
act
of
his
Office
in
another
Church
;
yet
an
occasionall
act
of
power
,
or
precaria
potestas
,
charitatively
to
put
forth
an
act
of
his
Office
to
those
in
an
other
church
,
over
whom
he
is
no
Officer
,
wee
see
not
but
he
may
;
but
then
this
act
of
power
is
not
towards
them
as
over
his
owne
flocke
;
for
two
things
are
cleare
to
us
.
1.
That
an
Officer
of
one
Church
,
is
no
Officer
over
those
of
an
other
Church
,
as
not
being
his
proper
flocke
,
for
there
being
no
Office
of
Pastour
at
large
without
power
of
Office
,
and
the
power
that
a
Pastour
hath
over
others
,
being
by
the
election
of
those
that
chose
him
their
Officer
,
who
thereby
become
his
proper
flocke
,
hence
he
hath
no
power
as
an
Officer
over
those
of
an
other
flock
,
unlesse
he
should
〈◊〉
〈◊〉
〈◊〉
〈◊〉
〈◊〉
.
That
such
an
officer
may
put
forth
acts
of
his
office
towards
those
that
are
not
of
his
proper
flock
.
E.
g.
A
Minister
ex
officio
,
&
as
a
Pastor
,
not
barely
as
a
gifted
man
only
may
preach
for
the
gathering
in
of
those
that
are
out
of
the
Church
,
as
well
as
for
the
edificaon
of
those
that
are
within
,
Ephe.
4.
11
,
12.
and
yet
these
are
not
his
proper
flock
;
it
is
the
office
of
every
Pastour
to
preach
the
Gospel
,
the
meanes
of
converting
,
and
therefore
not
onely
to
intend
but
to
attend
the
conversion
of
men
,
(
especially
in
preaching
to
his
owne
Congregation
)
for
Christ
hath
sheep
,
(
which
are
his
flock
)
to
bee
gathered
into
his
fold
,
which
are
not
the
Ministers
proper
flock
,
and
the
Pastour
is
the
Minister
of
Christ
,
as
well
as
the
Pastour
of
his
owne
flock
,
and
therefore
he
is
to
intend
their
gathering
in
as
well
as
the
good
of
his
owne
flock
.
Againe
,
as
he
hath
the
Keys
of
Office
by
preaching
the
Gospel
,
to
open
the
Kingdome
of
heaven
to
beleevers
,
so
also
he
may
ex
officio
,
shut
it
against
impenitent
sinners
and
unbeleevers
that
reject
his
Doctrine
,
Matth.
16.
19.
Matth.
10.
14.
Jer.
1.
10.
and
yet
these
are
not
of
his
proper
flocke
.
Againe
,
a
Pastour
may
administer
the
Seales
,
(
which
is
an
act
of
Office
)
to
members
of
other
Churches
,
in
his
his
owne
Congregation
,
(
if
they
desire
it
)
who
yet
are
not
his
proper
Flocke
.
Lastly
,
a
Deacon
of
one
Church
may
performe
an
act
of
his
Office
occasionally
to
those
out
of
the
Church
,
or
the
poore
of
another
Church
;
yet
be
no
Officer
or
Deacon
of
the
other
Church
,
and
so
't
is
here
.
To
illustrate
this
,
A
Captaine
of
a
Band
of
Souldiers
is
an
Officer
onely
over
his
owne
Band
,
but
it
's
an
act
of
his
Office
to
subdue
enemies
,
and
to
bring
in
those
that
submit
.
A
Steward
is
an
officer
over
his
Masters
family
,
not
over
others
:
yet
it
's
an
act
of
his
Office
to
provide
for
the
intertainment
of
Strangers
that
come
to
his
Lords
table
.
Thus
far
it
is
cleare
:
But
now
whether
a
Minister
may
administer
the
Seales
in
another
Congregation
,
is
not
so
evident
,
yet
wee
will
not
deny
but
that
occasionally
being
called
thereunto
by
the
desire
of
the
Church
,
hee
may
lawfully
doe
the
same
,
yet
it
's
no
foundation
of
a
stated
Presbytery
out
of
a
particular
Congregation
,
for
in
all
such
acts
the
Church
still
keepes
her
power
in
her
owne
hands
,
while
the
Minister
hath
no
authority
,
nor
can
put
forth
any
act
of
his
Ministery
,
but
at
her
desire
,
and
according
to
her
owne
necessity
,
neither
doth
this
make
a
Minister
a
Pastour
of
the
universall
Church
,
for
pastorall
Office
consists
in
taking
charge
of
a
people
,
and
having
power
of
authority
to
exercise
the
same
towards
his
Church
:
But
all
that
is
said
doth
include
neither
of
these
,
nor
doth
it
follow
that
because
they
may
set
up
a
Presbytery
over
themselves
in
the
same
Church
,
that
therefore
they
may
combine
&
set
up
a
Presbytery
of
many
Churches
,
the
first
being
their
duty
injoyned
by
Christ
,
not
the
other
;
for
it
is
necessary
for
them
to
have
such
amongst
them
as
may
ordinarily
feed
,
teach
,
watch
over
them
,
and
rule
them
(
the
end
of
a
Ministers
Office
)
but
it
's
not
necessary
so
to
submit
to
others
,
who
may
finde
worke
enough
to
feed
and
rule
their
owne
,
and
therefore
looke
as
it
is
not
in
the
power
of
many
Congregations
to
joyne
together
,
to
set
one
Pastour
over
them
successively
to
feed
them
,
(
for
so
they
make
a
Pluralist
,
and
the
Bramble
the
King
of
trees
)
nor
yet
in
their
power
to
set
up
(
as
in
the
first
ambitious
time
)
a
〈◊〉
〈◊〉
〈◊〉
〈◊〉
〈◊〉
with
power
over
all
singly
,
but
under
all
joyntly
,
so
neither
is
it
in
their
power
to
set
up
many
Pastours
,
who
by
their
plurality
of
votes
may
wholly
drowne
that
power
of
their
owne
.
Nor
lastly
doth
it
follow
,
that
if
they
may
desire
the
benefit
and
exercise
of
an
others
Office
occasionally
,
that
they
may
or
should
doe
it
constantly
,
no
more
then
because
they
may
desire
sundry
Ministers
to
preach
amongst
them
every
Sabbath
for
a
time
in
the
want
of
Officers
,
that
therefore
they
should
content
themselves
to
live
altogether
without
any
of
their
owne
.
Now
for
application
of
these
things
to
the
assumption
of
our
argument
.
Although
a
Pastour
(
in
the
sense
explained
)
may
put
forth
acts
of
Office
in
another
Congregation
,
or
to
others
in
his
owne
Congregation
,
yet
will
it
hence
follow
,
that
a
Minister
may
administer
Seales
to
such
as
are
of
no
Congregation
?
which
is
now
the
question
.
Reply
.
Now
to
remove
those
2013
objections
of
Mr.
Ball
,
which
onely
reach
the
question
in
hand
,
whereof
the
first
is
Reply
the
8.
When
ordinary
Elders
in
the
Primitive
Church
were
to
labour
the
comming
of
the
Infidels
to
God
,
these
being
converted
were
to
bee
baptized
of
the
Elders
ordinarily
in
the
Cities
,
though
the
number
might
bee
so
great
as
they
could
not
well
meet
in
one
Congregation
,
nor
bee
subject
to
the
same
Pastour
:
and
therefore
either
the
Pastours
must
Baptize
them
,
being
no
members
,
or
they
must
remaine
without
Baptisme
till
they
grow
into
a
body
,
and
choose
Ministers
to
Baptize
them
,
which
is
contrary
to
all
precedents
in
Scripture
.
Answ.
There
is
a
third
way
which
is
passed
over
,
that
will
ease
the
difficulty
:
viz.
the
Pastours
might
baptize
them
unto
their
owne
Congregations
so
long
as
the
numbers
did
not
exceed
beyond
edification
,
and
then
dividing
their
numbers
,
might
make
divers
Churches
of
one
,
and
they
call
Pastours
over
them
,
and
so
wee
see
Act.
2.
they
added
3000.
and
after
more
,
till
they
were
scattered
:
and
when
peace
was
restored
,
Act.
9.
the
Churches
were
not
onely
edified
but
multiplied
,
Verse
3.
and
so
the
consequence
of
your
9.
Reply
is
also
taken
away
.
Reply
.
There
is
no
precept
or
example
in
Scripture
warrants
the
admitting
of
set
members
of
one
Congregation
to
the
Seales
in
another
,
more
then
the
admitting
of
approved
Christians
that
are
not
set
members
,
The
Pastour
is
no
more
the
Pastour
of
the
one
then
of
the
other
,
neither
of
them
set
members
,
and
both
of
them
may
bee
members
for
the
time
being
.
Answ.
Wee
have
before
shewed
in
the
first
consideration
,
that
which
warrants
the
dispensing
of
the
Seales
to
confederating
beleevers
,
as
the
way
of
the
Gospel
,
and
Rom.
16.
1.
wee
have
a
plaine
example
of
orderly
receiving
the
members
of
one
Church
to
Communion
in
an
other
,
being
recommended
thereunto
by
the
Apostles
,
wee
have
not
the
like
for
any
not
in
Church
order
at
all
;
and
though
there
be
a
parity
in
respect
of
particular
relation
with
that
Pastour
and
flock
,
yet
that
is
a
disparity
in
regard
of
immediate
right
that
the
one
have
to
the
ordinances
of
Christ
and
priviledges
of
a
Church
,
which
the
other
have
not
,
being
out
of
that
order
of
Christ
prescribed
in
the
Gospel
,
in
which
order
of
a
visible
Church
,
visible
ordinances
are
to
be
dispensed
,
as
hath
been
proved
before
.
Reply
.
If
a
Synod
consisting
of
sundry
members
of
particular
Churches
,
met
together
in
the
name
of
Christ
about
the
common
and
publike
affaires
of
the
Churches
shall
joine
together
in
prayer
,
and
Communion
of
the
Supper
,
we
can
see
no
ground
to
question
it
as
unlawfull
,
although
that
assembly
bee
no
particular
Congregation
or
Church
,
hath
no
Pastour
over
them
,
&c.
Answ.
That
su●h
an
assembly
may
pray
together
is
no
question
,
for
every
family
may
doe
so
:
and
that
they
may
receive
the
Supper
also
in
a
right
order
,
wee
deny
not
,
for
meeting
where
there
is
a
particular
instituted
Church
,
they
may
have
Communion
therewith
in
the
Supper
,
being
many
as
well
as
few
,
but
whether
they
may
as
a
Church
(
being
no
politicall
body
,
but
members
of
many
Politicall
Churches
)
administer
Church
ordinances
proper
to
a
Church
,
wee
would
see
some
reasons
before
wee
can
judge
it
lawfull
so
to
doe
:
for
though
some
doe
account
such
a
Synod
Ecclesia
orta
;
yet
not
properly
such
a
Church
as
hath
Ecclesiasticall
power
,
authority
and
priviledge
belonging
thereto
:
they
may
consult
and
doctrinally
determine
of
cases
of
that
assembly
,
Acts
15.
but
further
to
proceed
,
we
see
no
rule
,
nor
paterne
.
Besides
,
if
such
an
assembly
of
many
Churches
may
administer
Seales
,
why
may
not
any
other
assembly
of
Church
members
or
Ministers
doe
the
sam●
?
and
so
this
power
will
be
carried
without
limitation
,
we
know
not
how
far
,
if
they
once
depart
from
a
particular
Church
.
CHAP.
VIII
.
Consid.
3.
Reply
.
TO
the
third
consideration
,
this
whole
reason
as
it
is
propounded
makes
onely
against
it selfe
;
who
ever
thought
that
the
Seales
were
not
proper
to
confederates
,
or
the
Church
of
God
;
of
old
visible
beleevers
in
the
Covenant
of
grace
were
of
the
visible
Church
,
and
in
Church
order
according
to
the
dispensation
of
those
times
,
though
not
joyned
to
the
society
of
Abrahams
family
:
to
exclude
Job
,
Melchisedeck
,
&c.
because
not
of
the
visible
Church
,
is
welnigh
a
contradiction
,
and
so
to
debarre
known
approved
Christians
,
&c.
Answ.
That
this
reason
makes
not
against
it self
,
Mr.
Ball
himself
hath
cleared
,
when
he
stated
our
consideration
truely
in
the
words
following
,
as
will
appeare
,
however
here
he
somewhat
troubles
the
waters
needlessely
,
that
the
ground
may
not
appeare
,
for
there
is
nothing
in
our
answer
which
deny
Melchisedech
,
Job
,
&c.
to
bee
of
the
visible
Church
according
to
the
manner
of
those
times
,
indeed
wee
instance
in
them
as
persons
under
the
covenant
of
grace
,
not
mentioning
their
membership
in
family
Churches
,
as
being
enough
for
our
purpose
,
if
they
had
not
right
to
Circumcision
by
vertue
of
their
right
in
the
covenant
of
grace
,
except
they
joyned
to
the
Church
at
first
in
Abrahams
family
,
and
so
after
to
the
same
Church
in
Israel
;
and
the
more
speciall
Church
relation
in
Abrahams
family
was
required
to
Circumcision
,
the
stronger
is
the
force
of
our
reason
,
not
the
weaker
.
For
so
much
the
rather
it
followes
,
that
seales
are
not
to
bee
dispensed
to
beleevers
(
as
such
)
though
visibly
professing
the
faith
,
except
they
joyne
also
to
such
a
forme
of
the
visible
Church
,
to
,
or
in
which
the
seales
are
instituted
and
given
.
Reply
.
The
true
and
proper
meaning
of
this
consideration
is
,
that
as
Circumcision
,
and
the
Passeover
were
not
to
bee
dispensed
to
all
visible
beleevers
under
the
Covenant
of
grace
,
but
onely
to
such
as
were
joyned
to
Abrahams
family
,
or
the
people
of
the
God
of
Abraham
,
no
more
may
Baptisme
,
and
the
Lords
Supper
be
administred
now
to
any
beleevers
,
unlesse
they
be
joyned
to
some
particular
Congregation
.
Answ.
These
words
rightly
stating
the
consideration
wee
leave
it
to
any
indifferent
reader
to
judge
,
whether
any
way
it
make
against
it selfe
,
or
whether
there
was
any
cause
first
to
darken
it
as
was
done
in
the
former
passage
.
Reply
.
The
strength
of
it
stands
in
the
parity
betweene
Circumcision
and
Baptisme
,
but
this
parity
is
not
found
in
every
thing
,
as
your selves
alledge
.
To
unfold
it
more
fully
,
wee
will
consider
three
things
.
First
,
wherein
the
Sacraments
agree
,
and
wherein
they
differ
.
Answ.
It
matters
not
in
how
many
things
the
Sacraments
differ
,
so
they
agree
in
the
thing
questioned
,
and
though
wee
might
raise
Disputes
and
Queries
about
some
particulars
in
this
large
discourse
upon
this
first
head
,
yet
seeing
here
is
a
grant
of
the
parity
in
the
point
now
questioned
,
viz.
Concerning
the
persons
to
whom
Circumcision
and
Baptisme
doe
belong
,
wee
shall
take
what
is
granted
,
and
leave
the
rest
.
For
thus
it
is
said
,
Circumcision
and
Baptisme
are
both
Sacraments
of
Divine
institution
,
and
so
they
agree
in
substance
of
the
things
signified
,
the
persons
to
whom
they
are
to
be
administred
,
and
the
order
of
administration
,
if
the
right
proportion
be
observed
.
Now
that
we
●●ld
the
right
proportion
in
the
persons
,
may
appeare
,
First
,
in
that
(
as
was
granted
)
Circumcision
sealed
the
entrance
into
the
Covenant
,
but
this
Covenant
was
not
simply
,
and
onely
the
Covenant
of
grace
;
but
that
whole
Covenant
,
that
was
made
with
Abraham
,
whereby
on
Gods
part
they
were
assured
of
many
speciall
blessings
,
(
whereof
Lot
,
and
others
not
in
this
Covenant
with
Abraham
,
were
not
capable
)
and
whereby
Abraham
his
seed
,
and
family
were
bound
for
their
part
to
be
a
people
to
God
,
and
to
observe
this
signe
of
the
Covenant
,
which
others
in
the
Covenant
of
grace
were
not
bound
to
.
Answ.
Secondly
,
(
as
is
granted
)
it
was
Abraham
,
and
his
houshold
,
and
the
seed
of
beleeving
Jewes
that
were
the
persons
to
bee
Circumcised
,
and
therefore
not
visible
beleevers
,
(
as
such
)
for
then
Lot
had
been
included
:
so
by
right
proportion
not
all
visible
beleevers
as
such
,
but
such
as
with
Abraham
,
and
his
family
are
in
visible
Covenant
to
bee
the
people
of
God
according
to
the
institution
of
Churches
when
,
and
to
which
the
seale
of
Baptisme
is
given
;
and
therefore
as
all
family
Churches
but
Abrahams
being
in
a
new
forme
of
a
Church
were
excluded
,
so
much
more
such
as
are
in
no
visible
constituted
Church
at
all
.
Reply
.
Secondly
,
As
for
the
proposition
it selfe
,
certaine
it
is
,
Circumcision
and
the
Passeover
were
to
bee
administred
onely
to
the
visible
members
of
the
Church
,
i.
e.
to
men
in
Covenant
professing
the
true
faith
,
but
that
in
Abrahams
time
none
were
members
of
the
visible
Church
,
which
joyned
not
to
Abrahams
family
,
wee
have
not
learned
.
Answ.
The
proposition
wee
see
is
granted
,
yet
it
is
obscured
divers
wayes
,
to
which
wee
answer
:
First
,
whereas
it
is
said
these
members
of
the
Church
were
men
in
Covenant
,
professing
the
true
faith
.
True
,
but
where
?
not
in
any
place
,
but
in
the
Church
of
Abrahams
family
,
and
so
after
in
the
Church
of
Israel
.
Secondly
,
what
faith
?
not
onely
faith
in
the
Messiah
for
life
,
and
salvation
,
but
withall
faith
in
the
promises
made
to
Abraham
,
and
his
seed
with
subjection
to
the
visible
worship
of
God
in
that
Church
,
and
to
circumcision
in
particular
.
Thirdly
,
that
there
were
no
others
of
the
visible
Church
besides
Abrahams
family
,
is
not
said
,
but
being
so
it
strengthens
the
argument
,
as
was
shewed
before
.
Reply
.
In
the
first
institution
of
Circumcision
God
gave
it
to
Abraham
,
as
the
seale
of
the
Covenant
formerly
made
with
him
,
but
of
any
Church
Covenant
,
whereinto
Abrahams
family
should
enter
,
we
read
not
.
Answ.
Whether
Circumcision
sealed
any
new
Covenant
made
with
Abraham
,
Gen.
17.
or
that
before
,
Gen.
15.
wee
will
not
contend
,
neither
is
it
materiall
,
bee
it
the
same
covenant
hee
entred
into
before
for
substance
,
yet
it
is
evident
,
1
That
this
covenant
was
no●
simply
and
onely
the
covenant
of
grace
,
but
had
many
peculiar
blessings
belonging
to
Abraham
,
and
his
posterity
,
and
family
contained
in
it
.
Gen.
12.
and
15.
2
It
is
very
considerable
that
God
made
this
Covenant
with
Abraham
,
when
hee
cal'd
him
out
of
that
corrupt
state
of
the
Church
in
Ebers
family
to
worship
God
more
purely
according
to
his
institutions
,
Gen.
12.
1.
with
Josh.
24.
2.
Thirdly
,
this
covenant
,
Gen.
17.
is
more
explicate
,
and
full
then
before
,
and
especially
in
that
promise
,
which
most
properly
concernes
Church
covenant
,
viz.
that
God
would
take
Abraham
and
his
seed
into
covenant
with
himselfe
,
even
an
everlasting
covenant
to
be
a
God
unto
them
,
Vers.
7.
and
this
in
a
speciall
manner
▪
is
that
,
which
the
Lord
saith
hee
would
now
establish
betweene
Abraham
and
himselfe
,
viz.
by
this
signe
of
the
covenant
,
Vers.
9
,
10
,
11.
Fourthly
,
this
is
the
very
covenant
,
which
the
Lord
renewed
with
Abrahams
seed
afterward
,
when
hee
established
them
to
bee
a
Church
or
people
to
himselfe
,
as
is
evident
,
Deut.
29.
12
,
13.
this
the
Lord
is
said
oft
to
remember
,
viz.
to
remember
his
covenant
with
Abraham
,
when
hee
visited
his
seed
with
any
mercy
:
Exod.
6.
5
,
6
,
7
,
8.
Psal.
105.
8
,
9.
and
therefore
it
must
needs
bee
a
Church
covenant
.
Fiftly
,
as
Gen.
17.
the
Lord
instituted
a
visible
token
,
and
seale
of
this
covenant
,
so
hee
strictly
enjoyned
the
observation
of
the
same
in
all
the
seed
and
family
of
Abraham
,
and
that
in
all
their
generations
:
all
which
things
especially
joyntly
considered
make
it
evident
,
that
Abraham
and
his
were
not
onely
a
people
,
but
established
a
people
to
God
in
a
Church
covenant
,
and
that
the
same
covenant
,
which
was
the
foundation
of
the
nationall
Church
of
God
,
that
was
after
in
his
posterity
,
and
to
this
covenant
the
seale
of
Circumcision
was
added
.
Reply
.
Melchisedeck
,
Lot
,
Job
might
bee
circumcised
,
though
wee
reade
not
of
it
,
(
as
wee
read
not
that
John
Baptist
,
or
the
Apostles
were
baptized
)
or
if
they
were
not
circumcised
,
it
may
bee
that
institution
was
not
knowne
to
them
,
or
they
were
not
required
to
joyne
to
Abrahams
family
,
and
if
they
had
,
they
should
have
transgressed
,
and
so
the
reason
was
not
,
because
they
were
not
in
Church
order
,
but
because
Circumcision
was
appropriated
to
Abrahams
family
in
some
peculiar
respects
.
Answ.
Though
wee
reade
not
of
the
administration
of
Baptisme
to
John
Baptist
,
the
Apostles
,
and
many
others
,
yet
wee
reade
of
a
rule
that
required
it
of
them
,
and
it
was
a
part
of
that
righteousnesse
,
of
which
the
Lord
Jesus
saith
to
John
,
Thus
it
becommeth
us
to
fulfill
all
righteousnesse
,
Matth.
3.
15.
not
for
the
institution
of
Circumcision
did
bind
Lot
,
Job
,
&c.
yet
that
they
were
forbidden
to
joyne
to
Abrahams
family
,
and
so
bee
circumcised
,
wee
cannot
say
;
seeing
afterwards
Proselytes
were
reecived
into
the
same
Covenant
and
Church
,
and
so
circumcised
.
Secondly
,
that
it
was
so
appropriated
to
Abrahams
family
,
as
that
it
was
unlawfull
for
them
to
joyne
to
Abrahams
covenant
,
and
be
circumcised
,
this
is
more
then
can
bee
shewed
;
or
if
Lot
,
Melchisedeck
,
Job
were
excluded
,
yet
out
of
question
Abraham
might
and
did
enlarge
his
family
,
and
so
might
take
in
proselytes
visible
beleevers
in
the
covenant
of
grace
,
and
circumcise
them
,
and
so
still
the
appropriating
of
circumcision
to
the
Church
,
and
Covenant
of
Abrahams
family
,
doth
not
weaken
,
but
strengthen
the
argument
,
in
as
much
as
no
visible
beleever
in
the
Covenant
of
grace
might
partake
of
the
seale
but
by
joyning
in
visible
covenant
with
that
Church
to
which
it
was
given
.
Thirdly
,
suppose
Job
,
Lot
,
&c.
and
their
families
were
circumcised
,
(
as
Junius
alledgeth
Jerome
for
it
)
yet
how
will
it
appeare
it
was
not
by
taking
hold
of
the
Covenant
of
Abraham
,
to
which
Circumcision
was
applyed
?
yet
it
seemes
more
probable
,
that
Lot
,
and
other
families
in
Abrahams
time
were
not
partakers
thereof
,
God
intending
(
as
the
effect
shewes
)
not
to
establish
them
nor
theirs
to
bee
his
people
,
as
by
Circumcision
hee
established
Abraham
and
his
seed
;
as
for
Iob
,
if
hee
were
of
Abrahams
seed
,
and
had
Circumcision
hereditarily
à
materno
,
paternoque
sanguine
,
(
as
some
thinke
)
yet
this
makes
nothing
against
the
argument
wee
have
now
in
hand
.
Answ.
After
the
Church
of
the
Iewes
was
constituted
(
when
wee
cannot
imagine
any
Church
amongst
the
Gentiles
)
wee
finde
none
must
bee
admitted
to
the
Passeover
that
was
not
circumcised
,
but
nothing
was
required
of
a
stranger
,
but
that
hee
professe
the
true
faith
,
and
avouch
the
God
of
Abraham
to
be
his
God
,
which
must
be
done
before
hee
could
be
reputed
a
visible
beleever
,
or
under
the
covenant
of
Grace
.
Reply
.
If
any
doubtfulnesse
can
bee
raised
about
the
Church
in
Abrahams
family
,
yet
the
case
is
so
cleare
in
the
following
story
of
the
Church
,
as
you
must
needs
grant
the
proposition
,
(
as
you
do
)
and
the
Church
of
the
Jewes
is
still
but
the
same
Church
,
that
was
in
Abrahams
house
,
and
the
covenant
the
same
,
for
Gen.
17.
God
established
the
Covenant
with
him
and
his
seed
for
an
everlasting
Covenant
to
be
a
God
unto
them
;
and
in
Egypt
the
Lord
challenges
them
as
his
owne
,
his
first
borne
,
&c.
and
therefore
there
is
the
same
reason
of
circumcision
,
first
and
last
in
respect
of
the
Persons
,
that
had
right
unto
it
,
but
say
you
nothing
was
required
to
circumcision
,
but
to
professe
the
faith
.
But
we
demand
first
,
What
was
it
to
avouch
the
God
of
Abrabam
to
be
his
God
?
Was
it
not
to
subject
himselfe
to
all
the
Statutes
,
Commandements
,
and
judgements
of
God
in
his
Church
to
walke
in
them
?
as
▪
is
cleare
:
Deut.
26.
17.
Was
there
not
the
same
Law
for
the
stranger
,
and
the
home-borne
?
Secondly
,
Where
must
they
professe
this
faith
,
and
avouch
this
God
?
Was
it
in
any
place
where
they
dwelt
,
and
so
might
they
circumcise
themselves
?
must
not
this
bee
done
amongst
,
and
before
the
people
of
God
in
his
visible
Church
?
whence
such
were
called
Proselytes
,
and
reckoned
of
the
Common-wealth
of
Israel
,
Esay
56.
3
,
4
,
5
,
6.
And
is
not
all
this
to
joyne
themselves
to
the
visible
instituted
Church
before
they
were
circumcised
?
Lastly
,
it
is
not
true
that
no
man
could
be
reputed
a
visible
beleever
before
hee
did
all
this
,
That
which
followes
pag.
40.
is
answered
before
.
Reply
.
If
Lot
,
Job
,
&c.
were
not
circumcised
,
there
is
not
the
like
reason
for
Circumcision
,
and
baptisme
in
this
particular
.
Answ.
The
force
of
the
consideration
doth
not
depend
upon
the
likenesse
of
reason
betweene
the
persons
to
be
circumcised
and
baptized
in
every
respect
,
but
in
this
,
that
as
Circumcision
and
the
Passeover
were
given
onely
to
visible
members
of
that
instituted
visible
Church
,
and
therefore
so
in
this
case
of
baptisme
,
and
the
Lords
Supper
:
now
therefore
if
you
could
alledge
many
more
different
reasons
betweene
Lot
,
Job
,
&c.
that
were
not
circumcised
,
and
those
not
to
bee
baptized
,
it
would
little
availe
in
the
case
,
but
wee
shall
consider
your
differences
particularly
.
Reply
.
First
,
If
ever
circumcision
was
appropriated
to
Abrahams
family
,
and
might
not
be
communicated
to
other
visible
beleevers
,
it
was
in
the
first
institution
,
but
in
the
first
institution
of
baptisme
,
it
was
not
so
observed
,
that
beleevers
should
bee
gathered
into
a
Christian
Church
,
and
then
baptized
.
Mat.
3.
7.
John
baptized
such
as
came
to
him
,
confessing
their
sinnes
,
the
Apostles
baptized
Disciples
,
such
as
gladly
received
their
doctrine
,
&c.
Answ.
There
is
no
such
disparity
in
this
as
is
objected
,
for
Abrahams
family
was
in
Covenant
before
Circumcision
was
given
,
onely
the
Covenant
was
more
fully
explained
and
confirmed
:
and
so
when
John
baptized
,
hee
baptized
the
members
of
the
Jewes
Church
in
Covenant
before
,
to
whom
hee
was
sent
to
turne
the
heart
of
the
fathers
to
the
children
,
&c.
and
to
prepare
a
people
for
the
Lord
,
and
baptisme
was
then
given
to
the
Church
of
the
Jewes
with
reference
to
so
many
as
would
receive
the
doctrine
of
John
,
concerning
repentance
and
remission
of
sinnes
by
faith
in
the
Messiah
now
come
amongst
them
,
and
therefore
Christ
himselfe
,
and
his
Disciples
remained
yet
members
of
that
Church
.
Secondly
,
Though
the
visible
Kingdome
of
Christ
was
not
yet
to
bee
erected
in
Christian
Churches
,
till
after
Christs
death
and
Resurrection
,
whereby
hee
did
put
an
end
to
the
Jewish
worship
,
and
therefore
no
Christian
Churches
could
bee
gathered
by
John
,
yet
there
was
a
middle
state
of
a
people
prepared
for
the
Lord
,
gathered
out
of
the
Jewish
Church
,
which
according
to
that
state
were
made
the
Disciples
of
John
,
by
solemne
profession
of
their
repentance
or
conversion
to
God
,
and
acknowledgement
of
Christ
the
Lambe
of
God
already
come
,
to
whom
the
seale
of
baptisme
was
appropriated
.
As
for
the
instances
,
Act.
2.
37.
&c.
and
8.
37.
and
10.
47
,
48.
they
are
spoken
to
before
in
the
first
consideration
.
Reply
.
Secondly
,
Lot
,
Job
,
&c.
were
not
bound
to
joyne
to
Abrahams
family
,
and
bee
circumcised
,
but
now
all
visible
beleevers
are
bound
to
seeke
baptisme
in
an
holy
manner
.
Answ.
First
,
This
difference
makes
little
to
the
point
in
hand
,
it
is
enough
,
that
all
that
would
be
circumcised
were
bound
to
joyne
to
that
Church
,
and
so
now
.
Secondly
,
in
after
times
no
doubt
every
true
proselyte
fearing
God
was
bound
to
joyne
to
that
church
,
as
well
as
now
;
and
if
now
all
visible
beleevers
be
bound
to
professe
their
faith
,
and
seek
baptisme
in
an
holy
manner
,
why
should
they
not
bee
bound
to
joyne
to
some
visible
Church
,
and
seeke
it
there
,
(
as
well
as
of
old
?
)
yea
where
should
they
professe
their
faith
,
but
in
the
visible
Churches
,
as
the
Proselytes
of
old
did
?
Your
third
difference
is
oft
pressed
,
and
answered
before
.
Reply
.
Fourthly
,
If
Circumcision
bee
appropriated
to
the
family
of
Abraham
,
it
is
because
that
Covenant
was
peculiar
to
Abrahams
posterity
,
namely
,
that
Christ
should
come
of
Isaac
,
but
baptisme
is
the
Seale
of
the
Covenant
of
Grace
without
peculiarity
or
respect
.
Answ.
This
difference
is
of
little
moment
,
neither
will
it
hold
,
for
first
,
though
that
,
and
other
promises
had
a
speciall
eye
to
Abrahams
family
,
yet
Circumcision
sealed
the
righteousnesse
of
faith
,
Rom.
4.
to
them
being
in
visible
Covenant
with
the
Church
,
as
baptisme
now
doth
.
Secondly
,
this
peculiar
respect
you
speake
of
,
no
way
hindereth
the
joyning
of
many
servants
to
Abrahams
family
,
and
Covenant
,
nor
any
proselytes
to
the
Church
afterward
of
any
nation
,
no
more
then
now
in
respect
of
baptisme
.
Thirdly
,
the
true
reason
was
,
because
although
the
Covenant
was
made
with
others
,
yet
not
established
,
nor
enlarged
towards
them
;
and
hence
if
they
would
partake
of
such
a
Covenant
,
they
must
joyne
in
this
;
which
also
is
the
glory
of
the
rich
grace
of
Christ
shining
forth
in
Church-Covenant
with
all
that
will
become
a
people
to
him
to
this
day
.
The
first
difference
is
answered
in
the
first
and
second
.
CHAP.
IX
.
Consid.
4.
Reply
.
TO
the
fourth
consideration
,
first
,
Men
are
capable
of
Church
censures
,
either
as
having
power
to
dispense
them
:
or
as
being
subject
unto
them
,
&c.
In
the
second
sense
,
many
are
capable
of
Church
priviledges
,
who
are
not
subject
to
Church
censures
:
as
the
children
of
Christian
Parents
are
capable
of
baptisme
,
and
approved
members
of
any
true
Church
are
capable
of
Seales
in
other
Congregations
amongst
you
,
who
are
not
subject
to
the
censures
of
the
other
Congregation
,
spiritual
Communion
in
publike
prayer
,
whereof
visible
beleivers
(
not
in
Church
order
)
are
capable
,
but
not
subject
to
common
censures
in
your
sense
.
Answ.
This
distinction
is
needlesse
:
our
meaning
is
plaine
in
the
second
sense
,
and
therefore
wee
say
nothing
to
what
is
objected
against
the
first
.
To
the
instances
objected
against
the
proposition
in
the
second
sense
,
wee
answer
first
concerning
the
Infants
of
Church-members
,
they
are
subject
to
censures
,
whensoever
they
offend
the
Church
,
as
others
are
,
though
so
long
as
they
live
innocently
,
they
need
them
not
.
Secondly
,
Members
of
any
true
visible
Church
are
subject
,
and
so
capable
of
censure
,
(
though
not
in
another
Church
)
which
is
not
in
in
the
proposition
.
2
▪
Also
they
are
capable
of
censures
mediately
by
and
in
that
other
Church
,
if
they
there
offend
:
for
that
Church
may
admonish
and
prosecute
the
admonition
in
the
Church
to
which
they
belong
,
and
refuse
society
with
them
,
if
they
repent
not
,
which
cannot
bee
said
of
such
as
are
not
members
of
any
visible
Church
,
who
cannot
be
prosecuted
to
excommunication
in
any
place
.
Thirdly
,
Publike
prayers
of
the
Church
,
though
they
bee
an
ordinance
of
Christ
,
and
the
Church
have
a
speciall
Communion
in
them
,
in
which
respect
others
do
not
share
,
yet
they
are
not
a
priviledge
or
peculiar
ordinance
,
wherein
none
but
the
Church
may
share
,
for
an
Heathen
or
Infidel
may
hear
the
word
and
joyne
in
the
prayers
,
being
cultus
naturalis
,
saying
Amen
unto
the
same
;
which
cannot
be
said
of
seales
and
censures
,
being
cultus
institutus
.
Reply
.
Secondly
,
A
Person
baptized
,
is
not
baptized
into
that
particular
Congregation
onely
,
but
into
all
Churches
,
and
in
every
particular
▪
Church
hath
all
the
priviledges
of
a
baptized
person
,
and
so
to
be
esteemed
of
them
.
Now
the
priviledge
of
the
baptized
person
,
walking
in
the
truth
,
and
able
to
examine
himselfe
,
is
to
bee
admitted
to
the
Lords
Supper
,
as
all
circumcised
persons
had
right
thereby
to
eate
the
Passeover
in
any
society
,
where
God
should
choose
to
put
his
name
there
,
Exod.
4.
47.
Deut.
16.
1
,
1.
Answ.
This
seemeth
to
touch
the
question
it selfe
,
rather
then
the
proposition
of
this
fourth
consideration
:
but
wee
shall
answer
to
it
as
it
stands
.
1.
Here
you
grant
that
a
person
baptized
,
is
baptized
unto
a
particular
Congregation
:
which
wee
accept
as
a
yeelding
of
the
question
unawares
.
2.
If
you
meane
,
that
such
hath
a
liberty
of
Communion
in
a
way
of
brotherly
love
in
all
Churches
where
he
comes
,
wee
grant
,
(
so
farre
as
nothing
in
him
justly
hinder
)
but
if
you
meane
that
hee
is
baptized
into
all
Churches
,
so
as
to
challenge
a
right
of
Membership
in
them
all
,
wee
deny
it
,
as
a
position
that
would
take
away
all
distinction
of
Churches
,
as
wee
have
formerly
shewed
.
3.
We
deny
that
the
Lords
Supper
is
the
priviledge
of
a
baptized
person
,
able
to
examine
himself
,
&
walking
in
the
truth
as
a
baptized
person
,
for
then
a
Papist
converted
to
the
truth
,
able
to
examine
himselfe
,
hath
a
right
to
the
Lords
Supper
in
every
Church
,
before
he
make
any
profession
of
his
conversion
,
and
faith
in
any
particular
Church
,
for
hee
may
bee
such
a
baptized
person
.
And
we
may
say
the
like
of
an
excommunicate
penitent
.
4.
We
grant
that
a
baptized
person
is
not
onely
baptized
in
to
that
particular
Church
whereof
hee
was
first
a
member
:
For
if
it
bee
a
seale
of
his
initiation
into
that
particular
Church
onely
;
then
he
must
bee
rebaptized
as
oft
as
hee
enters
into
another
,
but
hee
is
baptized
(
in
the
sense
formerly
shewed
)
into
the
whole
mysticall
Body
of
Christ
,
and
hence
hath
jus
ad
rem
,
or
a
remote
right
unto
the
priviledges
of
the
Church
every
where
,
but
that
therefore
he
hath
immediate
right
to
the
fruition
of
all
,
when
he
is
severed
from
that
particular
church
wherein
he
was
baptized
,
that
follows
not
:
for
as
he
had
this
latter
right
in
the
first
Church
wherein
hee
was
baptized
,
so
he
must
have
it
in
any
of
the
Churches
of
Christ
afterward
;
now
if
in
the
first
Church
the
fruition
of
ordinances
came
by
orderly
joyning
▪
to
it
:
so
it
must
be
afterward
,
for
as
wee
said
before
,
such
as
the
communion
is
,
such
ought
to
be
the
union
,
he
that
would
have
politicall
communion
with
the
politicall
Churches
of
Christ
,
must
be
some
where
in
politicall
union
with
them
,
otherwise
one
may
have
communion
in
all
Churches
&
yet
never
unite
himself
to
any
one
,
which
loose
walking
we
are
perswaded
Christ
Jesus
will
not
allow
.
5
The
similitude
from
a
circumcised
person
will
not
hold
.
First
,
because
there
is
no
parity
between
severall
families
in
the
same
Church
,
and
severall
Churches
in
the
New
Testament
,
but
rather
severall
seats
of
communicants
in
the
same
Church
answers
,
severall
families
eating
the
passeover
in
the
Church
of
the
Jewes
.
Secondly
,
an
Edomite
circumcised
though
he
were
converted
,
and
acknowledged
the
true
God
in
his
owne
country
never
so
fully
,
yet
might
not
eate
the
passeover
till
he
joyned
to
the
church
of
Israel
as
all
other
Proselytes
did
:
&
so
is
it
here
.
Reply
.
Thirdly
,
there
is
not
the
same
reason
of
every
Church
priviledge
;
one
may
have
right
to
some
who
may
not
meddle
with
others
,
as
members
of
one
Church
may
joyne
in
hearing
and
prayer
with
another
Church
:
but
not
meddle
in
election
and
ordination
of
their
Teachers
,
and
therefore
the
proposition
is
not
so
evident
to
bee
taken
without
proofe
,
that
they
have
no
power
to
admit
a
beleever
into
communion
in
any
Church
priviledge
,
who
have
no
power
to
excommunicate
.
Answ.
What
is
here
objected
from
the
liberty
or
restriction
of
Church
members
in
another
Congregation
,
is
answered
before
in
the
first
objection
,
and
therefore
the
proposition
may
stand
good
for
all
that
is
here
said
.
2
That
which
is
set
down
as
the
proposition
,
is
neither
the
same
with
that
in
our
reason
,
nor
any
way
allowed
by
us
;
for
wee
speake
not
here
of
power
to
admit
,
but
of
the
right
to
bee
partakers
:
neither
doe
wee
deny
a
power
in
officers
to
admit
members
of
other
Churches
to
the
seales
,
though
they
have
no
power
to
excommunicate
them
.
3
If
our
proposition
seeme
to
need
proofe
:
the
reason
of
it
is
at
hand
,
because
those
that
are
the
peculiar
priviledges
or
proper
priviledges
or
proprieties
of
the
Church
,
as
seales
and
censures
being
of
the
same
nature
,
viz.
outward
ordinances
of
Christ
ordained
by
him
for
the
edification
of
his
Church
and
joyntly
given
to
his
Church
:
and
therefore
looke
to
what
Church
hee
hath
given
the
one
,
hee
hath
given
the
other
also
:
if
the
one
,
viz.
censures
,
bee
given
to
the
Church
of
a
visible
Congregation
,
then
the
other
:
they
are
all
(
both
seales
and
censures
)
contained
in
the
keys
which
are
given
to
the
visible
instituted
Churches
of
the
New
Testament
:
not
to
the
Catholick
(
as
such
:
)
for
a
godly
man
justly
cast
out
of
the
particular
Church
,
yet
cannot
bee
cast
out
of
the
Catholick
.
Reply
.
That
visible
beleevers
baptized
into
a
true
Church
,
professing
the
true
faith
,
and
walking
in
holy
obedience
,
and
their
seed
should
be
judged
such
as
are
without
in
the
Apostles
sense
,
because
they
are
not
externally
joyned
as
set
members
to
some
peculiar
Congregation
in
Church
Covenant
,
is
affirmed
,
not
proved
.
Answ.
Comming
to
the
assumption
of
our
argument
it
is
expressed
(
according
to
the
frequent
manner
in
this
Reply
)
in
such
termes
as
it
is
not
affirmed
by
us
,
and
therefore
if
it
want
proof
,
blame
not
us
our
assumption
is
;
Such
as
are
not
in
Church
Covenant
are
not
capable
of
Church
censures
:
where
by
being
in
Church
covenant
wee
meane
either
implicitly
or
explicitly
,
membership
in
any
true
Church
,
as
in
our
answer
wee
expresse
to
prevent
mistakes
:
and
this
is
proved
from
1
Cor.
5.
12.
and
in
applying
hereof
wee
doe
not
affirme
that
such
are
simply
without
in
the
Apostles
sense
,
but
in
some
respect
onely
,
viz.
in
regard
of
visible
church
Communion
.
Reply
.
First
,
It
doth
oft
fall
out
that
the
true
members
of
the
Catholick
Church
and
best
members
of
the
orthodox
Church
,
by
a
prevailing
faction
in
the
Church
,
may
bee
no
members
of
any
distinct
society
,
and
shall
their
posterity
be
counted
aliens
from
the
Covenant
,
and
debarred
from
the
Sacraments
,
because
their
parents
are
unjustly
separated
from
the
inheritance
of
the
Lord
?
Answ.
This
objection
is
before
answered
in
the
first
consideration
,
where
was
given
the
instance
of
Athanasius
,
and
it
is
answered
by
the
Reply
it selfe
in
the
next
words
;
Surely
as
parents
unjustly
excommunicated
,
doe
continue
still
visible
members
of
the
flock
of
Christ
(
understand
that
particular
Church
out
of
which
they
are
cast
,
)
so
the
right
of
Baptism
belongs
to
their
Infants
:
which
being
so
,
they
are
not
without
that
Church
,
though
debarred
unjustly
of
the
present
communion
with
it
,
unlesse
he
renounce
that
Church
,
or
other
.
Reply
.
Secondly
,
If
such
Churches
renounce
it
as
are
no
members
of
a
politick
spirituall
fellowship
be
without
,
then
the
members
of
one
Church
are
without
unto
another
,
&c.
Answ.
This
objection
wee
have
had
and
answered
oft
before
.
In
a
word
,
there
cannot
bee
the
like
reason
,
no
not
in
respect
of
that
other
Church
,
who
may
in
a
due
order
of
Christ
persecute
the
censures
against
them
,
though
not
compleatly
amongst
themselves
;
which
cannot
bee
said
of
such
as
have
not
joyned
themselves
to
any
Church
,
and
therefore
wee
deny
that
the
Apostles
reason
was
because
they
were
without
to
Corinth
,
but
without
to
all
Churches
.
Reply
.
Thirdly
,
(
The
fornicators
of
this
world
)
doe
they
not
explaine
whom
the
Apostle
pointeth
unto
by
the
title
of
being
without
Verse
the
10.
11.
such
as
had
not
received
the
Covenant
of
grace
?
Answ.
Wee
never
thought
otherwise
but
that
the
fornicators
of
this
world
and
the
heathen
are
most
properly
without
in
the
Apostles
sense
;
but
if
our
words
bee
observed
,
that
in
a
certain
respect
,
or
as
our
words
are
,
in
regard
of
visible
Church
communion
,
such
as
are
in
no
Church
society
are
said
to
bee
without
,
what
great
offence
have
wee
given
?
For
first
,
is
not
a
godly
man
(
if
justly
excommunicate
)
without
in
this
sense
.
Secondly
,
doth
not
the
Apostle
Iohn
expresly
call
them
without
that
forsooke
the
fellowship
of
the
Church
,
1
Iohn
2.
19.
saying
they
went
out
?
Thirdly
,
were
not
the
Catechumeni
of
old
in
this
respect
without
,
and
the
lapsed
in
times
of
persecution
,
and
the
like
,
who
(
in
those
zealous
and
severe
times
of
Church
discipline
)
were
not
onely
said
to
bee
without
,
but
stood
without
,
though
weeping
and
praying
as
penitents
at
the
Church
doores
,
sometimes
for
two
or
three
yeeres
?
and
after
this
degree
of
preparation
for
entrance
into
the
Church
which
they
called
〈◊〉
〈◊〉
〈◊〉
〈◊〉
〈◊〉
,
there
were
three
more
before
they
were
received
to
the
Lords
Supper
:
which
severity
though
wee
approve
not
,
yet
it
may
mollifie
the
mindes
of
the
godly
learned
that
are
apt
to
bee
offended
at
such
a
word
from
us
.
Fourthly
,
our
Saviour
himselfe
expresly
saith
(
and
that
not
onely
of
those
of
no
Church
)
but
such
as
were
even
of
the
visible
Church
,
and
his
ordinary
hearers
,
that
many
of
them
were
〈◊〉
〈◊〉
〈◊〉
〈◊〉
〈◊〉
or
men
without
:
and
therefore
this
application
of
1
Cor.
5.
12.
need
not
bee
called
insolent
,
or
raise
such
an
hubbub
abroad
,
as
wee
perceive
it
doth
.
Reply
.
Fourthly
,
Church
order
is
necessary
wee
deny
not
,
but
that
a
man
should
bee
a
constant
set
member
of
a
particular
society
by
Covenant
to
make
him
a
member
of
the
visible
Church
,
or
to
give
him
title
or
interest
to
the
publike
order
,
this
is
not
taught
of
God
.
This
is
but
a
bare
denyall
of
the
position
it selfe
,
but
what
is
meant
by
publike
order
wee
know
not
:
or
where
the
order
of
Christ
(
which
is
granted
to
bee
necessary
)
can
bee
found
but
in
particular
Churches
,
wee
are
yet
to
learne
,
neither
is
it
any
where
taught
in
this
Reply
,
and
wee
would
gladly
learne
how
that
Church
should
orderly
deale
with
such
a
man
in
case
of
offence
that
is
of
no
particular
Church
.
Reply
.
Fiftly
,
Paul
divides
all
men
into
two
rankes
,
the
first
and
greater
without
,
the
last
and
lesser
within
,
but
that
beleevers
,
&c.
and
their
children
should
be
reckoned
without
,
we
read
not
in
any
Scripture
,
but
in
Scripture
phrase
hereticks
themselves
are
within
.
1
John
2
19.
1
Cor.
11.
19.
Answ.
All
that
is
said
in
this
objection
except
the
last
clause
,
is
but
a
repeated
deniall
of
the
conclusion
in
other
words
:
to
the
objection
about
Hereticks
within
,
wee
grant
they
are
within
till
cast
out
or
gone
out
of
the
Church
,
1
John
2.
19.
and
if
gone
out
,
how
are
they
within
?
and
so
if
an
orthodox
professor
will
frowardly
forsake
all
Churches
and
live
alone
,
or
among
the
heathen
,
how
is
hee
within
?
we
speake
onely
in
generall
.
Reply
.
Sixtly
,
This
hath
not
beene
beleeved
in
the
Church
?
Answ.
Wee
are
not
bound
in
every
thing
to
be
of
the
Churches
faith
,
and
what
wee
have
said
before
may
satisfie
here
.
Reply
.
Seventhly
,
Without
are
Dogs
,
&c.
Rev.
22.
15.
not
such
as
are
faithfull
,
holy
,
&c.
Answ.
True
,
properly
such
are
without
,
not
these
,
yet
in
some
respects
(
as
hath
been
said
)
others
also
may
be
without
,
as
such
as
forsake
the
Church
,
&c.
as
was
before
said
more
fully
.
Reply
.
Eighthly
,
They
that
are
without
in
the
Apostles
sense
are
Aliens
from
the
commonwealth
of
Israel
,
strangers
from
the
Covenant
of
promise
,
having
no
hope
,
and
without
God
in
the
world
;
but
we
hope
you
will
not
passe
such
rash
censure
upon
the
brethren
who
bee
not
gathered
into
the
society
as
set
members
.
Answ.
To
say
some
beleevers
may
bee
without
in
some
respect
,
is
farre
from
such
a
censure
:
the
Scripture
saith
of
Israel
in
their
corrupt
estate
,
and
defect
of
the
Ordinances
of
God
,
that
they
were
a
long
time
without
God
,
without
Law
,
without
a
teaching
Priest
,
yet
that
hard
expression
doth
not
equall
them
with
the
heathen
;
much
lesse
to
say
some
beleevers
are
without
the
visible
Church
in
regard
of
visible
Church
communion
,
and
wee
judge
no
otherwise
of
such
then
of
our selves
when
wee
were
in
the
like
case
.
Reply
.
Ninthly
,
Let
this
interpretation
stand
,
and
hee
shall
bee
without
also
that
is
not
subject
to
the
censures
of
the
community
of
the
particular
combination
,
few
or
many
,
without
,
or
with
Officers
,
and
so
all
the
reformed
Churches
that
ascribe
the
Keyes
to
the
Presbytery
,
or
Classis
,
and
not
to
the
community
,
and
some
amongst
your selves
(
if
not
most
)
shall
bee
without
also
.
And
therefore
wee
cannot
thinke
that
approved
Christians
desiring
seales
are
either
without
or
not
capable
of
Church
censures
:
if
they
offend
,
though
no
set
members
,
for
desiring
seales
,
they
put
themselves
under
the
ordinances
for
a
time
,
and
may
be
proceeded
withall
as
offending
members
.
Answ.
This
objection
hath
no
colour
without
extreame
straining
of
our
application
of
1
Cor.
5.
12.
seeing
wee
never
limited
the
position
to
Churches
of
the
same
judgement
,
or
in
like
degree
of
order
to
ours
;
it
is
onely
a
forced
odium
which
is
cast
upon
us
,
but
wee
can
beare
more
at
our
brethrens
hands
,
neither
doe
we
know
any
Church
or
elder
that
ascribes
the
power
of
the
Keys
to
the
Presbytery
or
Classis
,
excluding
the
community
amongst
us
.
Secondly
,
for
that
objection
that
such
put
themselves
under
the
ordinances
of
Christ
for
the
time
;
if
with
profession
of
faith
and
subjection
to
the
government
of
Christ
,
they
desire
seales
,
it
is
something
;
but
that
the
very
desiring
of
seales
doth
include
such
a
subjection
in
it selfe
,
being
but
for
this
or
that
act
of
administration
,
wee
cannot
understand
:
but
let
this
bee
really
made
good
,
that
desiring
seales
it
being
a
way
,
that
subjects
themselves
to
the
Church
as
members
,
and
the
case
will
bee
issued
,
being
understood
of
such
approved
Christians
as
the
position
speakes
of
.
Lastly
,
to
proceed
against
such
as
are
not
members
,
or
of
another
Church
,
as
with
an
offending
member
of
our
owne
,
is
not
much
unlike
the
proceedings
of
Victor
in
his
contentious
time
or
may
sow
the
seeds
of
such
usurpations
,
which
wee
leave
to
the
godly
wise
to
consider
of
.
Reply
.
Tenthly
,
If
upon
good
reason
a
passage
of
Scripture
can
bee
cleared
to
prove
that
for
which
it
was
never
alleadged
by
any
writer
,
wee
are
not
to
except
against
it
for
want
of
mans
testimony
,
onely
in
such
cases
our
reasons
must
bee
convincing
,
but
for
the
exposition
of
this
Text
wee
have
not
observed
one
substantiall
ground
or
approved
author
to
bee
alledged
.
Dr.
Ames
shewing
the
necessitie
of
Christians
joyning
themselves
to
some
peculiar
Church
giveth
this
reason
;
Quoniam
alias
fieri
non
potest
quin
conturbentur
signa
illa
quibus
fideles
ab
infidelibus
discerni
possunt
,
1
Cor.
5.
12.
But
herein
Dr.
Ames
manifestly
sheweth
that
by
them
without
,
heathens
and
unbeleevers
must
be
understood
,
and
not
beleevers
,
though
of
no
setled
society
for
the
time
;
for
thus
wee
conceive
hee
argueth
.
The
signes
whereby
the
faithfull
are
to
bee
discerned
from
unbeleevers
must
not
bee
confounded
:
but
unlesse
Christians
make
themselves
actuall
members
of
a
Church
,
the
signes
whereby
the
faithfull
are
discerned
from
unbeleevers
,
will
bee
obscured
and
darkned
:
and
if
this
be
his
reason
,
how
can
that
Text
bee
alledged
unlesse
by
men
without
,
infidels
bee
understood
?
Answ.
First
,
That
we
have
reasons
to
alledge
it
in
that
sense
and
respect
declared
,
may
appeare
by
our
answers
to
your
objections
.
Secondly
,
That
wee
have
one
approved
authour
so
alleadging
it
,
viz.
Doctor
Ames
,
shall
appeare
in
cleering
his
meaning
from
your
objections
.
1.
Grant
that
by
men
without
(
according
to
Doctor
Ames
his
reason
)
Infidels
be
understood
by
the
Apostle
,
yet
how
shall
the
signes
discerning
beleevers
from
unbeleevers
,
bee
confounded
by
such
as
joyne
not
to
some
particular
Church
,
if
those
beleevers
doe
not
in
some
respect
stand
without
amongst
unbeleevers
?
and
the
consequence
is
so
plaine
that
the
owne
Syllogisme
whereinto
you
cast
his
argument
would
have
concluded
so
much
,
if
it
had
been
suffered
to
speake
out
in
the
conclusion
.
For
in
stead
of
saying
,
except
such
joyne
to
some
Church
,
the
signes
will
be
darkned
and
obscured
;
the
reason
rightly
concluded
would
have
said
(
fieri
non
potest
)
it
cannot
bee
but
the
signes
will
bee
confounded
:
and
therefore
in
his
judgement
it
is
unavoidable
that
such
mix
themselves
with
unbeleevers
,
that
are
without
indeed
properly
in
the
Apostles
sense
.
Reply
.
Againe
,
Doctor
Ames
,
lib.
4.
cap.
17.
speaking
of
Infants
to
be
received
,
saith
it
is
required
,
first
,
that
they
be
in
the
Covenant
of
Grace
by
outward
profession
,
&c.
Answ.
What
you
alledge
here
out
of
Doctor
Ames
,
wee
confesse
sheweth
that
hee
was
very
large
in
his
charity
about
the
baptizing
of
Infants
,
extending
the
same
to
the
child
of
a
Papist
,
&c.
but
it
may
seeme
by
some
passages
that
hee
understood
by
profession
of
faith
,
such
as
live
in
the
visible
Churches
,
and
lookes
at
the
child
of
a
Papist
as
one
of
a
visible
Church
for
substance
,
though
so
exceedingly
corrupt
:
but
all
this
do
not
disprove
that
he
understood
1
Cor.
5.
12.
otherwise
then
hath
been
said
.
What
you
alledge
out
of
his
second
Manuduction
concerning
the
Churches
of
England
we
consent
unto
,
neither
doe
wee
deny
seales
to
any
,
if
they
demand
them
as
members
of
any
true
Church
in
England
,
and
in
an
orderly
way
.
CHAP.
X.
Consid.
5.
Reply
.
TO
the
first
consideration
,
If
it
bee
repugnant
to
divine
institution
to
admit
of
approved
Christians
lawfully
baptized
,
walking
in
the
faith
,
members
of
the
visible
Churches
,
and
partakers
of
Church
priviledges
amongst
us
,
to
the
Lords
Supper
,
or
their
children
to
baptisme
;
because
they
bee
not
entered
into
Church-fellowship
according
to
your
order
,
then
it
is
unlawfull
though
no
such
evill
consequences
are
to
bee
feared
,
but
if
by
accident
some
abuse
should
fall
out
,
the
evill
is
to
bee
prevented
by
all
lawfull
meanes
,
but
the
faithfull
are
not
to
be
debarred
utterly
of
the
order
of
God
,
whereto
they
have
right
and
title
by
his
free
grant
and
gracious
institution
.
Answ.
Wee
cannot
but
still
complaine
of
this
liberty
,
which
is
taken
in
changing
the
termes
of
the
question
,
First
:
that
clause
,
Members
of
visible
Churches
,
is
not
in
the
position
,
nor
is
it
maintained
by
us
in
that
sense
,
neither
doe
wee
limit
Church-fellowship
to
our
order
,
(
as
it
is
called
)
but
acknowledge
Churches
defective
in
matters
of
order
,
(
as
was
said
)
in
the
answer
:
and
therefore
it
is
an
apparent
wrong
to
us
and
to
the
readers
,
so
oft
to
put
in
such
things
as
are
not
in
the
controversie
.
Secondly
,
If
it
bee
unlawfull
by
divine
institution
,
may
not
evill
consequences
bee
added
,
and
if
both
hold
,
are
not
our
reasons
the
more
strong
?
What
needeth
then
such
a
Reply
?
Thirdly
,
We
have
oft
granted
a
remote
right
,
but
next
and
immediate
we
still
deny
,
and
wee
conceive
no
other
order
of
God
in
his
Churches
to
prevent
such
evils
,
then
by
joyning
to
the
instituted
Churches
of
Christ
?
Reply
.
Seals
may
bee
prophaned
when
the
dispensers
cannot
helpe
it
:
but
here
is
no
feare
or
danger
of
such
consequences
necessary
to
follow
:
for
wee
speake
not
of
all
sorts
,
at
randome
,
but
of
Christians
professing
the
faith
intirely
,
lawfully
baptized
,
knowne
and
approved
to
the
wise
and
judicious
visible
members
of
the
Churches
amongst
us
sufficiently
knowne
to
you
,
or
orderly
recommended
,
&c.
Answ.
The
feare
and
danger
in
this
case
is
more
then
(
so
farre
off
)
can
easily
bee
discerned
,
though
the
limitations
bee
good
in
themselves
,
yet
the
application
of
this
description
in
the
first
part
of
it
would
open
a
doore
wider
then
many
can
imagine
,
for
many
such
(
in
the
judgement
even
of
the
wisest
)
comming
in
to
this
state
of
temptations
prove
farre
otherwise
,
(
even
your selves
being
Judges
,
if
you
were
here
)
wee
suppose
the
experience
of
the
discoveries
God
hath
made
in
these
late
trials
of
England
,
amongst
forward
professors
,
will
teach
our
brethren
to
consider
how
many
professors
may
prove
here
.
Yet
secondly
,
if
you
add
such
as
retaining
their
membership
in
your
Churches
,
are
recommended
unto
us
by
your
Churches
,
or
by
known
godly
Ministers
,
wee
can
then
according
to
order
receive
them
,
and
avoid
the
confusion
and
inconveniences
wee
objected
.
Thirdly
,
if
also
it
be
taken
into
the
description
,
knowne
and
sufficiently
approved
of
our selves
,
then
the
doore
is
open
to
them
to
the
communion
of
the
Church
and
all
the
priviledges
thereof
,
though
they
cannot
settle
in
the
place
of
their
present
abode
,
and
this
way
of
order
would
prevent
the
inconveniences
:
but
if
wee
come
to
put
a
difference
any
other
way
,
wee
cannot
avoid
it
but
great
offence
will
be
given
to
many
,
and
the
inconveniences
objected
in
some
degree
at
least
will
follow
here
with
us
,
and
it
may
be
much
more
in
some
other
places
.
Reply
.
You
professe
high
respect
to
your
brethren
in
Old
England
,
but
it
seemes
you
judge
them
insufficient
to
give
you
orderly
testimony
of
the
sincerity
of
approved
Christians
well
known
and
living
amongst
them
,
which
two
cannot
well
agree
.
Answ.
This
Position
holds
forth
no
such
judgement
of
the
insufficiency
of
our
Brethren
in
the
case
,
neither
have
we
shewed
it
by
rejecting
such
orderly
testimony
that
we
know
.
Reply
.
Wee
speake
not
of
such
,
who
against
light
refuse
to
professe
subjection
to
the
Gospell
of
Christ
,
or
to
joyne
to
some
approved
Church
,
&c.
Answ.
Neither
doe
wee
impute
that
to
all
that
joyne
not
unto
us
,
but
our
meaning
is
,
that
under
such
a
description
of
approved
Christians
,
we
shall
bee
necessitated
to
admit
of
some
,
if
not
many
such
.
Reply
.
No
question
but
many
have
been
admitted
by
the
Church
,
who
in
truth
are
much
too
light
,
and
some
refused
,
who
are
better
deserving
then
they
that
cast
them
off
.
Answ.
Bee
it
so
,
that
through
personall
failings
,
and
weaknesse
of
discerning
,
it
may
and
doe
fall
out
sometimes
,
yet
this
no
way
hinders
,
but
that
all
lawfull
meanes
to
prevent
the
same
may
and
ought
to
be
used
,
and
this
we
may
before
the
Lord
professe
,
that
the
purpose
and
desire
of
our
hearts
are
,
as
well
to
embrace
the
weakest
humble
Christian
,
as
to
keepe
out
the
proud
Pharisee
:
and
wee
have
seen
a
gracious
presence
of
Christ
in
his
Churches
,
blessing
our
indeavours
therein
,
whatsoever
any
discontented
persons
returning
back
,
may
clamour
to
the
contrary
.
CHAP.
XI
.
Consid.
6.
Reply
.
TO
the
sixt
consideration
,
this
conclusion
is
not
to
the
question
propounded
:
for
wee
speake
of
such
as
cannot
,
not
of
such
as
refuse
to
joyne
themselves
to
the
Churches
;
or
if
they
doe
not
joyne
,
it
is
not
out
of
contempt
,
or
wilfull
neglect
,
but
for
lacke
of
opportunity
,
or
through
their
default
,
that
should
admit
them
,
but
doe
not
.
Answ.
The
learned
Authour
here
wholly
mistakes
the
conclusion
of
this
argument
;
the
conclusion
is
plaine
and
expressed
with
the
ordinary
note
,
Ergo
no
christian
can
expect
by
the
appointment
of
God
,
to
partake
in
the
seales
,
till
he
hath
joyned
himselfe
in
Church-fellowship
,
and
in
the
call
of
the
Minister
;
and
this
is
fully
to
the
question
propounded
:
and
wee
marveld
it
should
not
be
observed
,
but
the
last
words
of
the
answer
should
bee
put
in
stead
of
it
,
which
are
onely
a
secondary
deduction
from
the
former
,
as
an
absurdity
,
which
may
follow
:
if
the
other
be
not
granted
.
And
yet
hence
occasion
is
taken
to
charge
us
with
injurious
and
tyrannical
dealing
toward
such
as
are
not
admitted
,
which
we
leave
to
the
Lord
to
judge
of
,
and
of
us
.
You
say
,
you
accuse
not
the
discretion
of
our
Churches
,
but
impute
it
to
the
rashnesse
of
the
zealous
multitude
,
but
if
it
were
so
practised
,
as
is
conceived
,
the
Churches
and
their
guides
should
shew
little
wisedome
,
and
faithfulnesse
to
the
Lord
,
and
the
soules
of
his
people
.
Reply
.
When
a
reason
is
demanded
of
your
judgement
,
why
you
debarre
approved
Christians
from
the
seales
,
and
we
dislike
it
,
you
should
put
this
note
upon
them
,
as
if
against
light
they
refused
orderly
to
subject
themselves
to
the
Gospell
of
Christ
.
What
warrant
you
have
thus
to
censure
,
what
use
of
this
manner
of
dispute
,
we
leave
it
to
your
godly
wisedome
to
judge
.
Answ.
Wee
are
heartily
sorry
that
this
reverend
man
of
God
,
out
of
a
meere
and
palpable
mistake
of
the
conclusion
of
the
dispute
,
should
runne
out
to
condemne
us
for
so
much
censoriousnesse
of
others
without
cause
,
whether
our
manner
of
dispute
bee
here
so
without
use
,
wee
leave
to
the
judicious
reader
to
judge
.
And
that
wee
are
far
from
such
censures
of
godly
approved
Christians
amongst
us
,
wee
can
approve
our selves
to
God
,
and
the
consciences
of
many
that
live
amongst
us
;
wee
doe
not
say
that
all
who
doe
not
joyne
with
us
,
doe
refuse
against
light
,
yet
wee
finde
it
true
too
oft
,
that
forward
professors
in
England
here
discover
evidently
an
heart
refusing
against
light
to
submit
to
Gods
ordinances
,
and
therefore
wee
had
cause
to
say
,
it
were
unreasonable
such
should
have
equall
liberty
with
others
.
Reply
.
In
the
consideration
it selfe
there
are
many
propositions
couched
to
be
examined
,
the
first
,
That
none
have
power
to
dispense
seales
but
such
as
are
called
to
the
Ministry
,
is
freely
granted
.
The
second
,
That
no
man
can
be
so
called
,
till
there
bee
a
Church
to
call
him
,
needeth
explication
.
For
by
the
Church
you
must
understand
the
community
of
the
faithfull
,
as
they
are
one
body
without
officers
,
and
such
a
Church
there
cannot
be
,
without
a
ministry
to
call
,
and
admit
them
into
Church
fellowship
.
Answ.
This
consideration
shines
with
such
clearenesse
,
that
an
impartiall
eye
may
easily
see
that
the
truth
by
sundry
diverticula
is
rather
clouded
,
then
the
argument
fairely
answered
.
This
second
proposition
being
too
plaine
to
bee
denied
,
interpretations
are
sought
,
but
they
are
rather
objections
,
to
which
wee
shall
answer
in
order
.
First
,
though
wee
grant
the
Lord
ordinarily
gathered
Churches
by
the
ministry
of
men
in
Office
,
as
the
Apostles
,
Evangelists
,
&c.
yet
not
alwayes
so
,
as
is
evident
,
Acts
11.
20
,
21.
The
story
of
Waldus
is
well
knowne
,
and
we
suppose
you
will
grant
those
Waldenses
the
name
of
a
true
Church
.
Origen
when
hee
was
not
allowed
of
the
Church
to
bee
a
Ministes
,
yet
converted
many
who
died
Martyrs
.
The
story
also
of
Frumentius
is
well
known
,
with
divers
others
.
Secondly
,
Ministers
by
Office
are
of
two
sorts
,
either
such
as
are
called
immediatly
or
mediatly
,
such
as
were
immediatly
and
extraordinarily
called
,
were
before
Churches
,
and
were
called
together
and
begin
Churches
,
(
as
the
Apostles
,
Matth.
28.
20.
Act.
1.
8.
)
But
all
ordinary
officers
that
are
to
administer
in
a
Church
doe
necessarily
presuppose
a
Church
to
call
them
,
unlesse
any
will
adventure
to
say
in
plaine
English
,
that
the
calling
of
a
Minister
may
bee
without
the
antecedent
election
of
the
people
,
and
then
wee
shall
finde
what
to
Reply
.
Reply
.
The
Apostles
baptized
not
themselves
,
but
by
the
helpe
of
others
,
and
those
not
called
of
the
people
to
baptize
,
1
Cor.
1.
17.
Answ.
Bee
it
so
that
in
Corinth
Paul
baptized
not
many
but
by
others
,
yet
first
we
demand
,
By
whom
did
Paul
and
the
Apostles
baptize
?
It
was
either
by
Evangelists
,
and
so
it
is
all
one
,
as
if
the
Apostles
,
as
extraordinary
officers
did
it
,
or
by
the
Pastors
newly
chosen
and
ordained
in
the
Churches
newly
gathered
,
who
might
baptize
the
rest
;
and
then
the
Church
was
before
such
officers
:
or
else
by
private
persons
,
which
is
denyed
expresly
in
the
Reply
to
the
first
proposition
.
Reply
.
The
Apostles
appointed
by
election
Elders
in
every
City
or
Church
,
and
so
there
was
a
Church
before
Elders
,
but
this
Church
was
a
society
of
beleevers
by
Baptisme
admitted
into
Church
fellowship
,
and
therefore
there
must
be
Ministers
to
baptize
,
before
there
can
bee
a
Church
to
call
a
Minister
.
For
a
company
of
unbaptized
men
cannot
choose
a
Minister
to
baptize
them
.
Answ.
Wee
see
here
still
how
unawares
the
truth
of
this
proposition
and
of
the
position
it selfe
breaketh
forth
;
for
the
proposition
it
is
fully
yeelded
and
is
most
plain
in
the
place
alluded
to
Acts
14.
Vers.
23.
And
the
position
is
yeelded
also
,
for
if
the
Apostles
admitted
beleevers
into
all
those
Churches
in
the
first
constitution
of
them
by
baptisme
,
(
which
is
the
very
truth
wee
contend
for
,
and
was
formerly
denyed
)
and
these
Churches
were
such
as
chose
Elders
(
and
therefore
were
particular
Churches
)
and
so
the
cause
is
fully
yeelded
.
Reply
.
A
company
of
converts
unbaptized
ought
to
desire
baptisme
,
but
they
have
no
power
to
elect
one
amongst
themselves
to
dispense
the
seales
unto
the
rest
,
&c.
It
can
never
bee
shewed
in
Scripture
that
any
society
of
unbaptized
did
first
choose
from
among
themselves
a
Pastour
or
Teacher
by
whom
they
might
bee
baptized
,
you
cannot
produce
one
example
or
other
proofe
in
Scripture
of
one
man
teaching
the
Gospel
ministerially
,
but
hee
was
baptized
and
a
member
of
a
true
Church
or
of
a
society
,
who
made
choyce
of
a
Pastor
or
Teacher
,
but
they
were
baptized
persons
.
Answ.
1
If
all
this
were
granted
that
when
Churches
were
gathered
by
Apostles
and
extraordinary
officers
out
of
persons
unbaptized
,
they
were
first
baptized
into
Church
fellowship
,
before
they
chose
Officers
,
and
so
long
as
the
Apostles
remained
,
enjoyed
from
them
other
ordinances
,
as
Act.
2.
and
so
had
no
Officers
chosen
by
themselves
,
but
by
Christ
immediatly
for
them
,
yet
as
when
the
Apostles
left
them
,
they
must
choose
Officers
if
they
will
enjoy
ordinances
:
So
when
there
is
no
such
Apostles
nor
Evangelists
,
nor
no
need
of
baptisme
,
(
as
is
usually
the
cause
of
Christians
arising
out
of
popery
)
in
this
case
wee
say
such
Churches
can
partake
of
no
ordinances
without
they
choose
officers
,
and
yet
this
varyeth
not
from
the
Scripture
patterne
neither
.
But
onely
so
farre
as
the
state
of
those
beleevers
differ
,
when
Paul
found
about
twelve
beleevers
at
Ephesus
,
who
were
baptized
by
John
the
Baptist
,
Act.
19.
1.
&c.
If
these
were
by
the
Apostle
set
into
a
constituted
Church
,
as
is
probable
,
(
being
called
on
further
to
the
knowledge
of
Christ
and
his
will
and
wayes
)
there
was
no
need
of
baptizing
them
againe
with
water
,
but
onely
with
the
holy
Ghost
,
as
the
Apostles
were
at
Pentecost
,
Act.
1.
5.
with
2.
1.
2.
and
yet
no
varying
from
the
rule
in
so
doing
:
and
the
like
is
our
case
now
.
2.
If
this
bee
so
as
here
you
urge
,
then
those
former
assertions
must
needs
fall
to
the
ground
;
as
,
That
every
society
in
covenant
with
God
is
the
true
Church
of
God
,
page
23.
and
that
it
is
simply
necessary
to
the
being
of
a
Church
,
that
it
hee
layd
upon
Christ
the
foundation
,
which
being
done
,
the
remaining
of
what
is
forbidden
,
or
want
of
what
is
commanded
,
cannot
put
the
society
from
the
right
and
title
of
a
Church
.
If
these
were
so
a
company
of
unbaptized
persons
may
bee
a
Church
,
being
in
Covenant
with
God
and
layd
on
Christ
the
foundation
,
though
they
want
baptisme
.
3.
Though
no
such
example
of
unbaptized
persons
choosing
a
Pastour
among
themselves
can
bee
shewed
,
when
there
was
no
need
thereof
;
(
Apostles
being
at
hand
to
baptize
them
)
yet
why
in
absence
of
Apostles
,
&c.
might
they
not
choose
some
other
baptized
Christian
,
who
comming
into
some
farre
remote
country
of
Infidels
,
is
a
meanes
of
their
conversion
;
wee
see
nothing
to
hinder
:
it
would
bee
hard
for
any
to
shew
an
example
of
Presbyters
holding
a
Synod
or
ordaining
of
Elders
,
without
Apostles
or
some
extraordinary
officer
,
yet
we
suppose
,
you
make
no
doubt
of
such
things
.
4
▪
If
an
example
of
one
unbaptized
that
preached
&
baptized
Ministerially
would
satisfie
,
the
example
of
Iohn
the
Baptist
might
answer
your
demand
,
for
whether
hee
baptized
himselfe
,
or
were
baptized
by
some
other
at
first
,
an
unbaptized
person
did
baptize
,
but
wee
see
no
need
of
such
an
example
:
Scripture
grounds
are
sufficient
to
guide
us
in
these
cases
,
bee
they
rules
,
examples
or
good
consequences
deduced
from
them
,
and
wee
reason
thus
;
a
Church
of
beleevers
professing
Christ
have
liberty
from
Christ
to
choose
their
Officers
:
But
a
company
of
unbaptized
men
professing
the
entire
faith
in
a
combined
society
,
is
a
true
Church
:
and
therefore
may
choose
their
officers
.
Reply
.
The
third
proposition
:
That
the
power
of
calling
Ministers
is
given
by
Christ
unto
the
Church
,
must
also
rightly
be
understood
,
by
the
Church
must
not
be
understood
the
faithfull
alone
,
but
their
guids
and
Officers
with
them
,
who
are
to
goe
before
them
and
to
governe
and
direct
them
in
their
choyce
,
neither
can
wee
say
two
or
three
beleevers
linked
in
a
society
is
such
a
Church
,
to
whom
the
call
of
Ministers
do
belong
,
but
that
right
was
given
by
Christ
to
such
Churches
,
as
were
gathered
by
the
Apostles
.
Answ.
The
first
Limitation
of
this
proposition
wee
passe
over
as
being
spoken
to
in
the
former
;
to
this
wee
answer
,
that
when
a
Church
have
guides
,
wee
grant
they
are
to
governe
them
therein
,
but
not
to
limit
them
,
whom
to
choose
,
but
when
the
Church
have
no
such
guides
,
(
as
by
death
and
other
wayes
it
may
fall
out
,
)
shall
they
then
lose
their
right
of
choosing
?
if
so
,
let
it
be
shewed
to
whom
the
right
falls
;
They
may
take
what
counsell
and
helpe
from
others
they
want
,
but
the
choyce
is
onely
in
them
,
and
therefore
this
limitation
is
needlesse
.
For
the
number
of
two
or
three
wee
contend
not
,
but
such
Churches
as
the
Apostles
gathered
were
particular
Congregations
,
and
therefore
the
right
is
in
such
,
bee
they
more
or
fewer
.
When
Bellarmine
saith
,
that
our
Ministers
intruded
themselves
into
Churches
;
no
,
saith
Dr.
Field
,
for
the
people
elected
them
,
which
they
might
lawfully
doe
and
separate
from
wicked
Ministers
,
which
hee
proves
by
the
testimony
of
Cyprian
,
writing
to
the
Bishops
of
Spaine
not
to
communicate
with
Basilides
and
Martialis
,
who
fell
to
Idolatry
in
times
of
persecution
,
Quando
ipsa
plebs
potestatem
habet
,
&c.
Also
from
Ocham
,
who
saith
,
Si
Papa
&
maxime
celebres
Episcopi
incidunt
in
haeresin
,
ad
Catholicos
devoluta
est
potestas
omnis
judicandi
:
to
which
hee
addes
this
reason
,
either
they
must
separate
from
them
,
and
choose
others
,
or
consent
to
their
impieties
.
Field
lib.
3.
cap.
39.
What
followeth
in
this
place
being
little
to
this
point
,
and
for
the
most
part
not
scrupled
by
us
:
and
what
is
not
acknowledged
by
us
,
wee
shall
have
a
fitter
occasion
to
speake
to
it
,
therefore
here
wee
passe
it
over
.
Reply
▪
Proposi
.
4.
That
all
those
who
desire
seales
are
bound
to
joyne
themselves
in
Church
fellowship
,
that
so
they
may
call
a
Minister
to
dispense
the
seales
unto
them
,
will
not
follow
from
the
former
rightly
understood
:
for
they
must
partake
of
the
seales
before
they
can
joyne
themselves
together
in
Church
estate
.
Answ.
To
this
objection
was
spoken
before
,
onely
we
marvell
why
you
say
they
must
first
partake
of
Seales
,
when
as
Acts
2.
they
were
baptized
and
added
to
the
Church
the
same
day
:
and
't
is
granted
the
Apostles
gathered
Churches
by
baptisme
.
Reply
.
Such
as
for
lack
of
meanes
and
opportunity
cannot
joyne
in
such
estate
,
er
bee
dispersed
by
persecution
or
destitute
of
Pastors
or
Teachers
,
may
for
a
time
seeke
the
seales
in
other
societies
.
Answ.
The
first
instance
is
the
thing
in
question
;
and
such
as
may
come
to
any
society
to
desire
seales
are
not
wholly
destitute
of
meanes
and
opportunity
to
joyne
,
viz.
to
that
society
.
The
two
other
instances
being
of
such
as
may
bee
supposed
still
to
hold
their
right
in
a
Church
society
;
the
thing
is
granted
by
us
in
way
of
communion
of
Churches
.
Reply
.
The
people
also
who
are
deprived
of
right
and
libertie
to
chuse
their
pastour
,
may
desire
the
seales
of
him
that
is
set
over
them
.
Answ.
This
objection
is
easie
,
for
in
desiring
seales
of
him
and
submitting
themselves
to
his
ministry
,
they
doe
now
choose
him
;
however
at
first
they
opposed
his
comming
.
But
what
is
this
to
what
ought
to
bee
in
an
orderly
way
whereof
wee
speake
?
Reply
.
These
propositions
being
allowed
for
currant
;
a
nation
or
people
plunged
into
Idolatry
or
Infidelity
,
or
otherwise
dischurched
cannot
by
ordinary
meanes
recover
into
a
Church
estate
,
wherein
they
may
lawfully
and
according
to
Gods
appointment
desire
or
expect
that
the
seales
of
the
Covenant
shall
bee
dispensed
unto
them
.
Answ.
What
should
hinder
,
if
the
whole
nation
would
bee
willing
,
to
recover
themselves
into
Churches
?
Indeed
that
is
rare
to
be
found
that
all
will
affect
such
a
recovery
.
But
wee
see
nothing
to
hinder
but
all
the
nation
or
so
many
as
are
awakened
in
conscience
to
bewaile
their
Apostasie
and
lament
after
the
Lord
,
having
especially
the
countenance
of
the
supreme
magistrate
,
severall
companies
of
Christians
may
combine
in
Churches
so
as
may
best
suite
with
their
edification
,
chuse
officers
and
injoy
ordinances
.
Nay
,
è
contra
,
our
Protestant
Divines
,
as
Chemnitius
,
Field
,
Brentius
,
Whitacher
,
Luther
,
&c.
make
peoples
power
of
electing
their
Ministers
the
best
foundation
of
a
peoples
recovery
of
a
true
Ministry
and
Church
estate
.
Reply
.
The
fifth
Proposition
riseth
beyond
measure
,
That
no
Christian
can
expect
by
the
appointment
of
God
to
partake
in
the
seales
,
till
hee
have
joyned
himselfe
in
Church
fellowship
and
in
the
call
of
the
Minister
.
We
conceive
you
will
not
say
that
children
and
women
have
to
doe
in
the
call
of
the
Minister
.
If
some
part
of
the
Church
doe
not
consent
in
the
call
of
the
Minister
,
must
they
separate
from
the
ordinances
of
worship
,
&c.
Answ.
The
seeming
swellings
of
this
proposition
will
easily
fall
and
run
within
bankes
and
bounds
,
if
it
bee
received
in
its
true
sense
and
meaning
;
for
by
the
call
of
a
Minister
must
needs
bee
understood
the
voluntary
subjection
of
all
Church
members
to
his
ministery
after
hee
is
called
,
as
well
as
the
act
of
election
of
him
at
the
first
:
It
were
irrationall
to
thinke
a
Minister
is
to
bee
chosen
over
againe
,
whensoever
a
member
is
added
to
the
Church
.
And
therefore
our
meaning
was
not
hard
to
conceive
,
and
being
so
taken
,
women
choose
their
Minister
,
that
is
,
voluntarily
submit
to
him
being
chosen
:
Children
are
subjected
to
him
by
their
parents
:
the
dissenting
part
of
the
Church
ought
to
submit
to
him
being
chosen
,
and
doe
if
they
remaine
under
his
Ministry
;
and
so
in
all
other
cases
you
have
or
can
suppose
▪
Reply
.
Here
you
say
people
must
joyne
in
the
call
of
a
Minister
before
they
can
lawfully
desire
and
bee
admitted
to
the
seales
.
And
another
hath
zealously
affirmed
,
It
is
a
presumptuous
sinne
to
choose
an
Officer
not
trayned
up
and
●ryed
in
debating
,
discussing
,
carrying
and
contriving
Church
affaires
,
in
admonishing
,
exhorting
,
comforting
,
&c.
Lay
these
together
and
consider
how
long
many
a
poore
soule
converted
to
the
faith
must
bee
compelled
to
want
Gods
ordinances
.
Answ
▪
First
,
it
doth
not
answer
the
profession
in
the
letter
thus
to
joyne
us
with
Mr.
Robinson
as
another
of
the
same
sort
as
it
were
.
For
such
as
would
gladly
receive
every
Syllable
from
us
that
may
dislodge
their
thoughts
of
separation
in
us
(
as
wee
are
heartily
desired
to
bee
assured
of
in
the
Epistle
to
this
Reply
)
wee
thinke
would
not
so
closely
joyne
us
with
such
they
would
have
us
parted
from
;
and
upon
so
little
occasion
and
to
so
little
purpose
,
unlesse
they
doe
much
forget
themselves
.
Secondly
,
when
it
cannot
be
denied
but
the
choyse
of
Ministers
is
in
the
Church
,
and
that
hands
should
not
rashly
bee
laid
on
any
man
:
and
Deacons
the
lowest
Office
should
bee
proved
and
then
Minister
being
found
blamelesse
,
yea
hee
saith
and
these
also
proved
,
implying
that
others
also
should
bee
so
,
1
Tim.
3.
10.
what
fault
can
be
found
with
the
substance
of
what
either
Robinson
or
our selves
speake
,
if
our
meaning
,
and
his
were
but
charitably
taken
?
If
his
word
bee
over-zealous
to
say
it
is
a
presumptuous
sin
to
doe
otherwise
,
what
is
that
to
us
?
Thirdly
,
For
the
delay
of
ordinances
,
if
both
these
be
taken
together
:
in
most
cases
it
need
not
be
long
,
where
God
affordeth
able
and
fit
men
for
office
.
But
if
some
delay
be
,
and
that
a
church
want
some
ordinances
,
and
cannot
by
Communion
with
other
Churches
injoy
them
,
(
which
is
rare
,
)
yet
is
it
not
better
to
forbeare
some
ordinances
a
while
,
then
miscarry
in
so
great
a
worke
as
the
choise
of
officers
,
upon
which
the
following
comfort
and
good
of
the
Church
doth
so
much
depend
?
The
demand
following
is
answered
in
this
whole
discourse
,
and
wee
hope
not
with
words
but
proofes
;
especially
in
our
answer
to
the
Reply
in
the
first
consideration
:
neither
doe
wee
see
any
such
difficulty
,
but
that
such
Christians
may
as
easily
joyne
to
such
a
Church
for
a
time
,
as
desire
to
injoy
the
ordinances
,
and
to
sit
loose
from
it
:
for
transient
members
we
disallow
not
.
Reply
.
If
the
propositions
may
stand
for
good
,
I
feare
we
shal
scarce
finde
that
ever
in
ordinary
way
the
Sacraments
were
lawfully
dispensed
or
received
in
the
Christian
Churches
of
God
since
the
first
foundation
of
them
.
Answ.
If
they
bee
taken
in
their
true
meaning
,
and
in
that
latitude
we
intend
them
,
wee
see
no
such
cause
of
scruple
.
For
what
is
more
ordinary
in
all
true
Churches
,
then
for
people
,
first
to
chuse
their
Ministers
,
&
then
to
receive
the
seals
at
their
hands
?
and
this
hath
beene
the
way
of
Ancient
reformers
,
It
is
true
;
many
corruptions
have
beene
in
many
true
Churches
,
and
usurpations
upon
the
right
of
the
people
in
choosing
their
Ministers
,
as
also
in
administrations
of
the
Ordinances
themselves
,
and
oft
in
the
Constitution
of
Churches
.
But
as
the
maintaining
of
any
truth
of
God
against
those
corruptions
in
worship
,
&c.
doth
not
argue
an
unlawfulnesse
of
the
ordinances
in
such
Churches
,
but
convinceth
onely
the
corrupt
administration
of
them
:
So
in
this
case
to
assent
the
right
way
of
Churches
electing
officers
,
and
injoying
Ordinances
against
all
corruptions
that
have
beene
in
the
Churches
,
doth
not
make
a
nullity
of
the
Ordinances
themselves
.
We
may
say
that
this
conclusion
riseth
beyond
measure
.
The
objections
being
thus
answered
,
we
leave
the
conclusion
to
the
judgement
of
the
indifferent
Reader
.
CHAP.
XII
.
Reply
.
TO
the
seventh
consideration
,
The
practise
of
the
Church
of
Strangers
in
London
,
recorded
by
John
Alasco
,
is
for
differing
from
your
judgment
and
practise
in
the
point
in
question
.
For
first
,
say
they
,
Paul
testifieth
that
the
Church
it self
,
without
exception
of
any
member
of
it
,
is
cleane
or
holy
by
the
administration
of
baptisme
.
Answ.
We
confesse
the
same
.
Reply
.
Secondly
,
They
bold
Communion
with
the
Church
of
England
as
one
with
theirs
.
Answ.
The
Church
of
England
they
call
it
not
,
but
the
English
Churches
:
and
we
deny
not
the
same
in
an
orderly
way
:
as
they
also
required
Testimony
of
their
piety
,
if
any
did
but
present
a
child
to
baptisme
in
their
Church
.
Wee
have
often
professed
this
,
and
by
your
owne
grant
most
of
the
approved
Christians
amongst
us
are
not
members
of
the
English
Churches
,
having
renounced
their
right
of
membership
and
Commuion
with
the
Church
they
were
of
there
.
Reply
.
Thirdly
,
This
order
was
observed
by
them
to
prevent
the
impostures
of
some
that
pretended
to
the
English
they
were
joyned
to
the
Strangers
;
&
contra
.
Answ.
This
was
not
the
onely
reason
of
their
order
;
for
his
words
are
,
All
strangers
doe
not
joyne
themselves
to
our
Church
;
yea
there
are
those
that
avoiding
all
Churches
,
&c.
which
plainely
sheweth
they
looked
further
then
such
according
to
our
practise
:
even
their
owne
country
men
fled
for
religion
,
as
we
are
:
they
yet
received
them
not
till
by
publike
profession
of
faith
and
subjection
to
discipline
,
they
joyned
themselves
to
some
Congregationall
Church
.
Secondly
,
this
sheweth
what
disorder
and
abuse
of
ordinances
will
follow
from
such
a
liberty
to
admit
such
as
are
not
joyned
to
some
Church
:
for
by
this
meanes
many
will
neglect
all
order
and
discipline
,
if
they
may
but
have
the
seales
.
Thirdly
,
to
put
all
out
of
question
that
their
practise
and
judgement
in
effect
was
the
same
with
ours
in
this
point
,
note
the
first
question
propounded
by
them
,
Are
these
Infants
which
you
offer
the
●eed
of
this
,
Church
that
they
may
lawfully
be
here
baptized
by
our
Ministery
?
CHAP.
XIII
.
THus
farre
wee
have
answered
to
the
Reply
made
to
the
considerations
in
our
answer
to
the
3.
and
4.
positions
.
Now
whereas
wee
tooke
notice
of
three
objections
against
our
first
consideration
,
and
answered
the
same
:
It
pleaseth
the
learned
authour
to
take
up
onely
two
of
them
,
and
with
much
inlargement
to
urge
the
same
as
his
reasons
against
the
positions
,
and
to
apply
our
answers
thereunto
;
by
which
meanes
our
answers
to
the
objections
briefly
set
downe
may
seeme
not
so
apt
and
full
here
as
they
would
appeare
in
their
proper
places
:
and
therefore
it
will
bee
needfull
for
us
to
inlarge
our selves
somewhat
in
answering
some
passages
at
least
in
the
reasons
as
they
are
here
propounded
,
before
we
come
to
the
Reply
.
Reply
.
Reason
.
1.
That
sacred
order
God
hath
set
in
his
visible
Church
,
&c.
Answ.
These
words
with
all
that
follow
,
whatever
they
may
seeme
to
carry
with
them
,
are
nothing
but
a
bare
denyall
of
the
positions
in
variety
of
expressions
.
Reply
.
For
first
,
The
baptisme
of
John
was
true
baptisme
,
&c.
but
hee
never
demanded
of
those
hee
received
,
whether
they
were
entered
into
Church
Covenant
,
&c.
Answ.
This
wee
had
in
substance
before
,
and
is
answered
(
with
all
the
other
instances
in
this
first
reason
)
in
our
answer
to
the
Reply
to
the
first
consideration
,
and
in
other
places
;
and
therefore
in
vaine
here
to
repeat
the
same
.
And
wee
have
observed
more
then
once
your
plaine
confession
that
the
Apostles
constituted
Churches
by
baptisme
,
even
such
Churches
as
they
set
Elders
in
by
the
election
of
the
people
.
Reply
.
The
second
reason
in
substance
is
this
,
because
from
Christ
and
the
constant
practise
of
the
Apostles
we
learne
,
that
such
as
are
called
of
God
,
received
the
holy
Ghost
,
beleeve
in
the
Lord
,
professe
their
faith
in
him
with
repentance
and
amendment
of
life
,
have
a
right
to
baptisme
,
and
desiring
it
are
wronged
if
they
bee
deprived
thereof
.
Answ.
We
grant
the
whole
;
but
as
it
is
supposed
in
due
order
they
must
receive
it
;
so
wee
desire
no
more
,
for
wee
grant
upon
these
common
grounds
,
such
have
jus
ad
rem
,
but
not
jus
in
re
,
and
the
immediate
fruition
of
them
.
Reply
.
Thirdly
,
By
a
lively
faith
a
man
hath
internal
Communion
with
Christ
,
by
profession
of
the
intire
faith
joyned
with
conformity
of
life
in
righteousnes
,
holinesse
and
fellowship
of
love
,
hee
is
a
member
of
the
visible
Congregation
or
flock
of
Christ
,
though
no
set
member
of
a
free
Independent
society
:
and
baptisme
is
a
seale
of
our
admission
into
the
flocke
of
Christ
;
not
ever
more
,
but
by
accident
,
of
our
receiving
into
a
particular
Congregation
.
Answ.
This
reason
stands
upon
such
a
sense
of
the
Catholik
Church
as
cannot
be
found
:
and
it
was
before
confessed
that
the
Catholick
Church
consisteth
of
all
true
particular
Churches
,
as
the
parts
of
it
.
And
therefore
how
can
a
man
be
visibly
a
member
of
the
whole
,
and
belong
to
no
part
thereof
?
Secondly
,
We
deny
not
but
such
have
a
right
to
be
in
the
particular
Church
,
and
so
to
baptisme
and
all
ordinances
?
but
as
by
such
profession
they
are
not
members
of
any
particular
Church
,
so
neither
have
they
immediate
right
to
the
priviledges
thereof
without
admittance
into
the
same
.
Fit
matter
,
such
are
for
a
particular
visible
Church
that
professe
the
intire
faith
,
&c.
But
it
doth
not
admit
them
actually
thereunto
:
and
your
owne
expression
secretly
implyeth
as
much
,
when
you
say
baptisme
is
a
seale
of
our
admission
into
the
Church
or
flocke
of
Christ
;
If
baptisme
bee
the
seale
of
our
admission
,
then
there
is
an
admission
thereunto
before
baptisme
:
but
who
doth
admit
,
and
where
,
and
when
is
any
admitted
to
the
Church
,
but
in
particular
Congregations
?
Can
any
bee
admitted
into
a
Church
,
that
whole
Church
being
ignorant
thereof
?
but
a
man
may
professe
the
intire
faith
,
and
live
accordingly
amongst
the
Heathen
,
where
neither
any
Church
nor
member
of
it
take
knowledge
thereof
;
and
therefore
bare
profession
doth
not
admit
men
,
but
make
them
fit
to
bee
received
and
admitted
into
the
visible
Church
.
Your
fourth
Reason
wee
have
had
twice
before
,
and
answered
the
same
.
Reply
.
To
our
answer
of
the
first
objection
;
from
the
Instances
of
the
Centurion
,
Lydia
,
the
Jailour
,
and
the
Eunuch
.
First
,
If
where
the
holy
Ghost
is
given
and
received
,
and
faith
professed
according
to
Gods
Ordinance
,
there
none
may
hinder
from
being
baptized
(
soil
▪
by
such
as
have
power
to
baptize
them
,
)
then
either
such
are
members
of
the
Church
,
or
baptisme
is
not
a
priviledge
of
the
Church
;
then
it
is
not
essentiall
to
baptisme
in
the
first
institution
that
it
should
bee
dispensed
to
none
but
members
of
a
Congregationall
assembly
.
Answ.
It
is
freely
granted
,
First
,
That
baptisme
is
a
priviledge
of
the
Church
.
Secondly
,
that
such
as
professe
the
faith
,
and
have
received
the
Holy
Ghost
,
are
members
of
the
Church
,
(
if
by
Church
bee
meant
the
Church
mysticall
considered
as
visible
,
though
not
alwayes
political
)
Thirdly
,
that
these
may
receive
baptisme
by
such
as
have
power
to
baptize
them
;
but
immediately
to
baptize
them
,
none
had
power
but
by
an
extraordinary
call
of
God
so
to
doe
,
as
hath
bin
formerly
shewed
.
But
it
wil
not
hence
follow
,
that
ordinary
officers
have
such
a
power
,
(
wanting
such
extraordinary
call
)
because
the
members
of
the
Church
Catholicke
having
right
unto
the
seales
;
yet
the
immediate
fruition
of
them
,
they
must
have
by
ordinary
officers
in
a
politicall
body
,
the
onely
subject
according
to
order
of
all
such
institutions
:
otherwise
we
must
admit
private
baptismes
,
if
the
extraordinary
examples
of
the
Apostles
be
pressed
for
our
patterne
.
Reply
.
Then
the
Apostles
in
dispensing
seales
walked
by
rules
of
Scripture
and
grounds
common
to
us
,
and
then
the
difficulty
remaining
is
onely
this
:
Whether
a
Pastour
may
dispense
seales
to
such
as
have
right
to
them
and
do
orderly
desire
them
,
though
hee
be
not
yet
a
set
member
of
a
Congregation
Answ.
Wee
grant
the
Apostles
ordinarily
and
generally
baptized
upon
common
grounds
,
but
still
when
they
did
so
they
received
them
into
some
particular
Church
;
and
so
baptized
them
:
and
in
the
like
orderly
way
any
pastour
may
doe
the
same
.
Secondly
,
we
answer
,
things
may
bee
done
(
sano
sensu
)
upon
common
and
morall
grounds
,
and
yet
may
not
be
done
by
others
upon
the
same
grounds
.
To
give
one
instance
in
stead
of
many
:
the
Apostles
preached
the
Gospel
to
gather
in
the
elect
of
God
and
to
edifie
the
Church
&c.
and
Ministers
upon
the
same
common
grounds
must
now
preach
the
Gospel
also
:
yet
in
that
the
Apostles
on
those
grounds
preached
to
all
Nations
,
this
doth
not
warrant
Ministers
now
to
do
the
like
:
so
here
though
we
baptize
beleevers
as
they
did
,
yet
wee
may
not
do
it
to
all
in
all
cases
as
they
did
.
And
therefore
the
rule
holds
onely
when
all
circumstances
are
alike
as
well
as
the
Common
grounds
.
Reply
.
Secondly
,
In
the
instance
given
,
it
is
not
probable
that
baptisme
was
evermore
administred
by
the
Apostles
or
Evangelists
.
For
before
the
death
of
Christ
the
Disciples
baptized
,
when
they
were
neither
Apostles
nor
Evangelists
properly
.
After
the
death
of
Christ
,
&c.
If
Philip
,
Ananias
,
and
others
might
baptize
such
as
were
no
members
of
particular
Congregations
,
then
may
ordinary
Pastours
doe
the
like
.
Answ.
You
mistake
here
in
the
force
of
our
answer
,
as
hath
beene
shewed
in
the
first
consideration
,
to
which
this
objection
and
answer
belong
.
For
wee
doe
not
make
all
the
Acts
of
the
Apostles
and
Evangelists
extraordinary
,
but
generally
orderly
in
the
way
wee
professe
.
Secondly
,
wee
answer
to
the
particulars
,
(
not
to
wrastle
with
the
Ghosts
of
humane
imaginations
and
conjectures
,
whether
any
besides
the
Apostles
baptized
the
3000.
Act.
2.
)
As
for
Philip
and
Ananias
if
they
baptized
,
did
they
baptize
as
private
men
,
or
as
Church
Officers
?
If
the
second
,
what
Officers
were
they
?
ordinary
or
extraordinary
?
Wee
thinke
it
will
not
bee
thought
they
were
ordinary
who
were
honoured
with
such
extraordinary
worke
:
But
in
what
Office
soever
they
were
,
those
particular
actions
(
in
baptizing
the
Eunuch
and
Paul
)
were
done
by
an
immediate
call
of
God
,
as
is
evident
in
the
story
.
Reply
.
Thirdly
,
It
is
very
improbable
that
the
persons
baptized
were
in
Church
State
,
or
Order
.
If
they
were
members
of
the
Jewish
Church
not
yet
dissolved
,
this
is
not
to
the
purpose
,
for
men
have
not
right
to
baptisme
,
because
members
of
the
Jewish
Church
,
but
because
Disciples
,
and
as
you
say
,
joyned
together
in
Covenant
,
&c.
Answ.
Wee
grant
,
that
since
the
visible
kingdome
of
Christ
was
set
up
in
visible
Christian
Churches
,
the
seales
belong
properly
and
ordinarily
to
the
members
of
Christian
Churches
not
Jewish
:
yet
wee
may
affirme
that
if
in
any
speciall
case
a
beleever
was
baptized
by
any
that
had
a
speciall
call
thereto
,
where
there
was
no
Christian
Church
present
actually
to
joyne
unto
:
yet
being
a
member
of
the
Jewish
Church
not
yet
dissolved
,
the
case
does
not
so
much
vary
from
the
set
▪
Order
of
Christ
in
those
times
,
and
that
is
all
wee
intend
.
Reply
.
If
the
Eunuch
,
and
Centurion
were
proselytes
,
and
of
the
Jewish
Church
,
the
Samaritans
whom
Philip
baptized
were
not
so
,
and
that
any
Gentiles
,
or
the
Jaylour
were
set
members
of
a
Christian
assembly
,
is
very
strange
,
&c.
Answ.
This
is
fully
answered
before
in
the
first
consideration
;
and
that
which
is
according
to
the
rule
and
mind
of
Christ
,
and
the
first
,
and
common
practise
of
the
Apostles
,
Act.
2.
to
joyne
men
to
the
Church
when
they
baptized
them
,
need
not
seeme
strange
.
Reply
.
In
the
Apostles
practise
two
things
are
to
bee
considered
.
First
,
the
circumstance
of
the
action
.
Secondly
,
the
substance
or
quality
of
the
Act.
In
some
circumstances
the
baptizing
of
some
of
these
might
bee
extraordinary
,
but
the
substance
,
and
quality
of
the
action
was
grounded
upon
●ules
perpetuall
,
and
common
to
us
and
them
.
That
is
done
in
an
extraordinary
way
,
&c.
Answ.
1
Wee
suppose
amongst
such
Circumstances
you
will
reckon
that
for
one
,
that
the
Eunuch
was
baptized
alone
in
the
Wildernesse
,
not
in
any
visible
assembly
of
Saints
.
Wherein
ordinary
Pastors
may
not
imitate
that
Act
:
and
this
comes
not
farre
short
of
what
wee
say
:
for
the
chiefe
proof
that
they
were
not
received
into
a
particular
Church
,
lies
in
their
absence
from
such
an
assembly
:
and
if
they
might
bee
admitted
to
the
Catholick
Church
without
the
presence
of
any
Christian
(
but
him
that
baptized
them
)
why
not
into
a
particular
Church
as
well
?
2
The
large
discourse
about
the
Apostles
extraordinary
power
,
and
doing
things
upon
common
grounds
:
is
so
oft
said
for
substance
,
and
answered
before
,
that
it
were
vaine
to
trouble
the
Reader
againe
with
the
same
thing
.
Reply
.
Secondly
,
an
argument
followes
necessarily
from
a
particular
example
to
a
generall
,
when
the
proofe
of
one
particular
to
another
is
made
by
force
of
the
similitude
common
to
the
whole
kind
under
which
those
particulars
are
contained
.
Now
in
this
matter
wee
speake
of
;
no
reason
can
bee
named
why
wee
should
thinke
it
lawfull
for
the
Apostles
to
baptize
such
as
were
no
set
members
,
and
the
same
should
be
unlawfull
in
all
cases
for
Pastors
of
particular
Congregations
.
Answ.
Wee
deny
that
the
Apostles
did
so
ordinarily
,
and
therefore
your
Argument
doth
not
hold
;
if
it
bee
built
upon
the
common
practise
;
but
if
it
be
built
upon
some
few
speciall
cases
▪
we
retort
the
Argument
thus
:
That
which
the
Apostles
did
ordinarily
upon
common
grounds
,
that
Pastors
ought
to
doe
:
but
ordinarily
they
baptized
Disciples
,
admitting
them
first
into
particular
Churches
;
therefore
in
the
third
reason
wee
grant
the
conclusion
of
it
,
that
the
Apostles
did
walke
by
ordinary
rules
generally
.
Reply
.
Fourthly
,
the
practise
of
the
Apostles
in
receiving
the
faithfull
,
&c.
is
backed
on
divine
precept
,
&c.
Answ.
If
you
meane
they
baptized
such
without
receiving
them
into
some
particular
Church
,
wee
deny
this
assumption
upon
the
grounds
laid
downe
before
.
Reply
.
Fiftly
,
In
the
first
consideration
you
prove
the
seales
to
be
the
priviledge
of
the
Church
in
ordinary
dispensation
by
this
passage
of
Scripture
,
Then
they
that
gladly
received
the
word
were
baptized
:
but
if
the
Apostles
baptized
by
extraordinary
dispensation
in
your
sense
this
testimony
is
insufficient
for
that
purpose
.
Answ.
Although
the
printed
Copy
of
our
answer
omit
this
proofe
wholly
,
and
also
,
Rom.
9.
4
▪
yet
in
our
true
Cypy
wee
alledged
,
Acts
2
41
,
42.
47.
wherein
you
will
finde
not
onely
this
passage
,
Then
they
that
gladly
received
the
word
were
baptized
:
but
withall
that
they
were
added
to
the
Church
,
and
such
a
Church
as
continued
stedfastly
in
the
fellowship
,
&c.
of
the
Apostles
.
Likewise
Verse
47.
that
the
conversion
,
and
baptizing
of
Disciples
being
omitted
,
the
joyning
or
adding
to
the
Church
is
put
in
the
stead
thereof
,
which
proofes
as
they
are
omitted
wholly
in
the
printed
Copy
,
so
also
you
make
no
reply
unto
them
.
Secondly
,
by
these
proofes
it
might
easily
have
been
seene
that
wee
did
not
looke
upon
all
the
Apostles
acts
in
this
case
of
Baptisme
as
extraordinary
▪
but
that
their
first
and
leading
examples
were
ordinary
,
and
in
that
order
wee
plead
for
:
which
if
it
had
been
regarded
,
much
labour
had
been
saved
in
this
dispute
,
which
hath
been
spent
to
little
purpose
.
And
,
Our
second
Reason
.
Reply
.
In
due
order
the
seale●
belong
to
them
to
whom
the
grant
is
given
,
but
the
grant
is
vouchsafed
to
the
faithfull
,
and
their
seed
,
forgivenesse
of
sinnes
,
&c.
and
the
benefits
of
the
Covenant
are
so
linked
together
,
that
where
one
is
granted
none
is
denyed
,
&c.
Answ.
'T
is
true
,
the
Seales
belong
to
all
them
by
a
remote
right
to
whom
the
grant
is
given
,
(
as
hath
been
oft
said
)
but
not
immediate
:
yet
in
the
very
propounding
of
this
reason
wee
may
observe
two
things
that
doe
cut
the
●●ewes
of
it
.
1
The
limitation
of
due
order
,
which
as
hath
been
said
can
no
where
be
found
but
in
a
particular
Church
.
Let
any
shew
what
order
Christ
hath
put
his
Catholick
visible
Church
into
,
or
where
that
order
is
to
bee
seene
but
in
particular
Churches
,
by
which
order
every
one
is
bound
to
joyne
to
such
Churches
,
as
well
as
to
partake
in
the
outward
Ordinances
of
Gods
worship
,
which
are
there
onely
to
be
found
.
Secondly
,
it
is
granted
that
not
onely
forgivenesse
of
sins
,
but
all
other
benefits
of
the
Covenant
of
grace
are
linked
together
,
and
are
the
grant
sealed
up
in
the
Sacrament
;
and
if
so
,
is
not
visible
conjunction
with
Christ
and
his
Church
;
with
all
the
priviledges
of
the
Church
,
and
ordinances
of
the
same
,
part
of
that
grant
by
the
Covenant
of
grace
,
or
of
the
Gospell
?
wee
suppose
none
would
deny
it
,
why
then
should
not
visible
beleevers
require
,
and
take
up
this
part
of
the
grant
,
as
well
as
the
seale
of
it
?
for
sigillum
sequitur
donum
;
let
them
take
this
gift
and
the
seale
is
ready
for
them
.
And
this
may
answer
the
first
part
of
the
Reply
about
Rom.
4.
11.
as
also
all
the
rest
which
followes
being
things
so
oft
repeated
,
and
answered
before
,
as
make
it
tedious
to
all
.
CHAP.
XIIII
.
Position
5.
THat
the
power
of
excommunication
is
so
in
the
body
of
the
Church
,
that
what
the
major
part
shall
allow
must
bee
done
,
though
the
Pastors
and
Governors
,
and
the
rest
of
the
assembly
be
of
another
mind
,
and
that
peradventure
upon
more
substantiall
reasons
.
Reply
.
This
question
is
much
mistaken
,
for
the
demand
is
not
,
Whether
in
the
Congregation
matters
should
be
carried
by
number
of
votes
against
God
,
as
you
interpret
the
position
,
but
whether
the
power
of
excommunication
so
lie
in
the
body
of
the
Congregation
as
that
sentence
must
proceed
in
externo
foro
,
according
to
the
vote
and
determination
of
the
major
part
,
and
so
in
admissions
of
members
,
&c.
and
though
they
have
no
power
against
God
,
but
for
God
,
yet
in
execution
of
that
power
they
may
bee
divided
in
judgement
,
and
one
part
must
erre
▪
Now
hence
the
question
is
moved
,
Whether
the
power
hee
so
in
the
people
,
that
what
the
major
part
determine
must
stand
.
Answ.
If
our
whole
answer
had
been
attended
unto
,
it
is
so
cleare
and
full
,
that
it
could
not
with
any
shew
of
reason
bee
subject
to
such
a
mistake
:
To
omit
the
first
part
of
our
answer
affirmatively
,
wherein
wee
cite
Mr.
Parker
as
consenting
with
him
.
In
the
second
part
to
the
position
as
stated
,
our
answer
is
plainely
negative
,
that
excommunication
is
not
so
seated
,
neither
ought
to
bee
so
in
any
of
the
Churches
of
the
Lord
Jesus
.
What
followes
is
our
reason
grounded
upon
the
last
clause
of
the
position
,
because
Churches
ought
to
carry
things
not
by
number
of
votes
against
God
(
as
this
position
implies
)
but
by
strength
of
Rule
and
Reason
according
to
God
,
and
for
edification
,
2
Cor.
13.
8.
2
Cor.
10.
8.
Now
let
any
judge
whether
the
position
doth
not
imply
such
an
absurdity
so
oft
as
things
should
bee
carried
by
the
major
vote
against
the
Officers
,
and
the
rest
having
better
Reasons
,
and
therefore
wee
are
apt
to
think
that
if
the
learned
author
had
been
so
ready
to
embrace
any
syllable
that
lends
to
dislodge
these
thoughts
of
us
as
leaning
to
separation
,
hee
would
have
beleeved
our
plaine
negation
of
this
position
,
which
indeed
is
according
to
our
constant
practise
never
following
the
major
part
of
votes
against
the
Officers
,
but
counting
it
the
duty
of
the
Officers
in
such
cases
either
to
satisfie
the
consciences
of
the
major
part
(
or
lesser
)
by
the
rule
of
the
word
,
or
to
yeeld
not
to
the
vote
but
reasons
if
they
bee
stranger
;
or
to
suspend
the
businesse
,
and
referre
to
the
counsell
of
other
Churches
,
if
they
cannot
agree
but
a
division
arise
according
to
the
patterne
,
Act.
15.
Reply
.
Amongst
them
that
hold
the
power
of
the
Keyes
to
bee
given
to
the
Church
,
some
(
as
Fenner
,
Parker
,
I.
D.
)
distinguish
between
the
power
it selfe
which
they
give
to
the
Church
,
and
the
execution
which
they
confine
to
the
Presbytery
,
others
give
the
power
of
the
Keyes
with
the
exercise
thereof
to
the
whole
body
of
the
Church
;
or
if
in
the
dispensation
they
attribute
any
thing
to
the
Officers
,
it
is
but
as
servants
of
the
Church
from
whom
they
derive
their
authority
,
and
here
lies
the
stone
at
which
the
Separation
stumble
,
and
which
wee
conceive
to
bee
your
judgement
and
practise
,
wherein
wee
required
your
plaine
answer
,
but
have
received
no
satisfaction
.
You
referre
us
to
Mr.
Parkers
Reasons
to
prove
the
power
of
the
Keyes
belong
to
the
whole
Church
,
who
are
of
farre
differing
judgement
from
him
in
the
point
it selfe
,
and
if
your
judgement
and
practise
bee
as
the
Separation
(
as
wee
feare
)
you
dissent
from
him
and
wee
from
you
in
these
considerations
.
Answ.
Wee
are
sorry
to
see
this
Reverend
man
of
God
so
strongly
possessed
with
a
prejudicate
opinion
and
feare
of
our
concurrence
with
the
Separation
:
(
upon
what
grounds
it
is
not
said
,
nor
can
wee
apprehend
)
That
neither
our
flat
negation
of
the
position
,
nor
our
reference
to
Mr.
Parker
as
concurring
with
him
,
should
give
him
any
satisfaction
to
the
contrary
.
But
if
that
bee
the
judgement
,
and
practise
of
the
Separation
which
is
here
imputed
unto
them
,
viz.
That
the
power
and
exercise
of
the
Keys
is
in
the
body
of
the
Church
,
and
what
the
Officers
doe
therein
is
but
as
servants
of
the
Church
from
whom
they
derive
their
authority
;
if
our
profession
may
bee
of
any
use
to
satisfie
,
wee
doe
freely
,
and
heartily
professe
to
the
contrary
:
affirming
that
the
authoritative
power
of
transacting
all
things
in
the
Church
,
is
in
the
hands
of
the
Officers
who
minister
in
the
name
and
power
of
Christ
to
and
over
the
Church
,
and
that
the
power
or
liberty
of
the
community
whereby
they
may
and
ought
to
concurre
with
their
guides
,
so
long
as
they
rule
in
the
Lord
,
is
to
bee
carried
in
a
way
of
obedience
unto
them
,
and
when
upon
just
cause
they
dissent
from
them
,
still
they
are
to
walke
respectfully
towards
them
,
and
wee
thinke
our
brethren
are
not
ignorant
that
Mr.
Parker
and
Fenner
give
as
much
to
the
Church
in
excommunication
,
as
wee
have
pleaded
for
in
any
of
our
publique
writings
.
But
seeing
wee
are
led
by
this
learned
author
from
this
particular
question
about
excommunication
to
that
beaten
controversie
of
the
power
of
the
Keyes
in
generall
,
and
the
first
subject
thereof
,
whereby
wee
are
forced
to
declare
our selves
herein
;
wee
shall
briefly
gleane
up
some
few
of
our
scattered
apprehensions
,
as
may
most
concerne
the
case
in
hand
.
1
There
are
divers
Keyes
that
are
diversly
distributed
to
severall
subjects
in
respect
of
execution
,
and
therefore
the
question
should
have
beene
first
stated
:
and
what
Keyes
are
denied
to
the
people
and
appropriated
to
the
Officers
.
And
what
to
some
Officers
,
not
to
others
,
should
have
been
shewed
before
Arguments
were
pressed
.
2
The
state
of
the
Church
being
mixed
of
an
Aristocracy
to
Pe●
Mart.
de
Excom.
Lo●
.
Com.
which
belongs
Office
,
and
Democracy
to
which
belongs
priviledge
;
hence
the
power
of
the
Keyes
is
twofold
.
1
[
](A93091-e21200-b)*
*
Officiall
.
Officiall
power
.
2
Fraternall
.
The
first
belonging
to
the
guides
of
the
Church
,
the
other
to
the
fraternity
thereof
.
3
The
officiall
power
of
the
Keyes
is
a
power
to
act
with
authority
in
the
name
of
Christ
ministerially
in
opening
and
shutting
,
binding
and
loosing
,
&c.
In
respect
of
which
Office
(
while
the
Minister
acts
according
to
the
will
of
Christ
)
he
is
over
the
Church
in
things
properly
Ecclesiasticall
,
because
hee
stands
in
the
roome
of
Christ
,
and
comes
in
his
name
,
and
hence
in
those
Church
acts
which
are
not
proper
to
him
,
but
common
in
some
cases
to
the
fraternitie
,
yet
there
is
an
office-authority
upon
them
,
which
is
not
upon
the
like
acts
materially
done
by
others
.
Ex.
gr
.
Any
brother
may
and
ought
to
exhort
▪
and
rebuke
,
1
Thes.
5.
14.
Heb.
3.
13.
Titus
a
Minister
is
exhorted
to
doe
the
same
thing
,
but
with
all
authority
,
Titus
2.
15.
some
able
and
gifted
,
though
not
in
Office
,
may
occasionally
open
and
apply
the
word
,
yet
not
with
an
Office-authority
.
But
an
Officer
preacheth
as
an
Ambassadour
of
Christ
,
2
Cor.
5.
So
also
in
admission
of
members
,
and
casting
out
of
offenders
(
wherein
though
the
fraternity
have
a
power
whether
in
consenting
or
otherwise
)
yet
they
act
obedientially
in
respect
of
their
guides
,
declaring
the
rule
,
going
before
them
in
example
,
and
commanding
them
(
if
need
bee
)
in
the
name
of
Christ
to
doe
his
pleasure
.
But
the
Officers
act
in
these
things
in
the
name
and
authority
of
him
in
whose
roome
they
stand
,
and
hence
wee
thinke
that
in
case
the
fraternity
without
Officers
should
cast
out
any
,
yet
it
is
not
altogether
the
same
with
that
which
may
bee
dispensed
by
the
Officers
thereof
,
it
being
no
officiall
act
.
2
Fraternall
power
(
in
publike
Church
acts
)
is
a
joynt
power
of
liberty
or
priviledge
(
in
some
sense
,
&
in
some
cases
)
to
open
,
&
shut
;
which
power
is
not
in
any
one
or
more
severally
;
but
in
the
whole
joyntly
,
for
as
they
have
power
to
combine
,
and
so
to
receive
others
into
the
communion
,
so
by
like
reason
to
shut
out
offenders
from
their
communion
;
but
thus
they
do
fraternally
,
not
officially
:
and
as
they
have
such
a
power
of
election
of
Officers
to
them
,
so
they
have
also
a
fraternall
power
(
due
order
being
attended
)
to
shut
them
out
(
when
there
is
just
cause
)
according
to
the
common
received
rule
,
Cujus
est
instituere
,
ejusdem
est
&
destituere
.
These
things
which
might
bee
more
fully
explained
and
confirmed
,
wee
have
onely
briefly
set
downe
both
to
wash
off
the
blot
of
popular
Government
from
the
wayes
of
Christ
,
as
if
all
authority
were
taken
from
the
Ministers
,
or
nothing
left
them
but
to
dispense
the
seales
,
and
in
all
other
things
to
sit
meerely
as
a
moderator
in
the
Churches
of
Christ
,
which
wee
utterly
disclaime
.
And
also
to
make
way
for
our
more
cleare
answer
to
what
is
objected
here
in
the
Reply
:
Wee
grant
therefore
the
first
argument
and
the
conclusion
thereof
thus
farre
,
that
the
officiall
power
of
the
Keys
was
not
given
to
the
whole
multitude
,
but
onely
there
is
given
to
them
a
power
to
choose
Officers
,
which
Officers
should
execute
the
same
.
Reply
.
2
If
Christ
gave
this
power
to
the
community
,
was
it
from
the
beginning
of
the
Church
,
or
tooke
it
effect
after
the
Church
was
planted
?
Not
the
first
,
for
then
the
Apostles
themselves
should
derive
their
power
from
the
community
,
which
they
did
not
.
Answ.
This
reason
is
answered
before
(
so
farre
as
concernes
our
tenent
)
in
the
second
consideration
,
where
it
is
alledged
,
to
which
wee
referre
the
Reader
;
neither
doe
wee
say
the
officiall
power
is
so
given
to
the
community
,
but
such
things
as
are
here
added
,
wee
shall
consider
so
farre
as
concernes
us
.
Reply
.
The
Apostles
and
other
Governours
were
given
of
Christ
to
the
Church
as
for
their
end
,
and
all
their
authority
was
given
unto
them
for
the
Church
,
as
for
the
whole
:
but
the
authority
it selfe
was
immediatly
derived
from
Christ
,
and
is
not
in
the
Church
as
the
immediate
subject
,
nor
derived
from
the
Church
,
but
from
Christ
the
King
of
the
Church
.
The
authority
of
Governour
is
given
of
Christ
for
a
gift
to
the
Church
,
but
not
a
gift
absolute
.
That
it
may
reside
in
the
power
of
the
whole
Church
,
but
for
a
conditionall
gift
communicated
to
the
Governours
for
the
good
of
the
whole
.
Parker
,
pol.
lib.
3.
cap.
8.
Answ.
1
Concerning
the
power
of
the
Apostles
,
and
extraordinary
Officers
wee
now
dispute
not
,
it
was
answered
before
;
and
for
the
authority
of
other
Officers
,
wee
doe
not
affirme
that
it
is
derived
from
the
Church
,
but
from
Christ
for
the
good
of
the
Church
;
but
if
the
question
bee
of
the
application
of
an
Office
,
and
the
power
of
it
to
such
and
such
persons
in
the
Church
,
wee
would
demand
whether
Christ
doth
this
to
such
a
Pastour
and
Teacher
immediatly
or
mediatly
:
if
immediatly
,
then
their
call
is
not
(
in
this
)
different
from
Apostles
,
which
Paul
expresly
distinguisheth
Gal.
1.
1.
Paul
was
an
Apostle
,
not
of
man
,
nor
by
man
,
but
of
God
,
and
by
Jesus
Christ
;
false
Teachers
are
of
man
,
and
by
man
.
True
Pastors
as
Thomas
,
Iohn
,
&c.
are
of
God
by
man
,
and
if
Christ
communicate
this
Office
,
and
the
authority
annexed
unto
it
mediatly
by
man
,
not
immediatly
,
the
question
is
,
Who
is
the
subject
of
this
power
to
call
,
and
so
to
apply
this
office
in
the
name
of
Christ
to
this
or
that
person
,
John
,
Thomas
,
&c.
Wee
hold
this
fraternall
ministeriall
power
(
under
Christ
)
is
in
the
Church
,
and
so
farre
wee
shall
defend
this
position
,
and
where
▪
ever
it
be
else
placed
it
will
be
subject
to
all
the
absurdities
that
are
imputed
to
us
.
To
the
sentence
of
Parker
we
answer
,
that
the
misinterpreting
one
word
of
his
sentence
doth
pervert
his
whole
meaning
,
his
words
are
Pro
dono
conditionali
ut
Rectoribus
communicetur
,
i.
e.
that
the
Church
might
not
communicate
that
power
to
Officers
,
nor
keepe
it
in
her
owne
hand
.
Or
that
it
might
bee
communicated
from
Christ
by
the
Church
.
And
this
will
appeare
his
meaning
,
and
it
agrees
with
that
position
hee
holds
so
strongly
,
that
the
Church
is
the
first
subject
of
the
Keys
.
Reply
.
After
the
Churches
were
established
,
it
tooke
not
effect
,
for
it
is
no
where
found
in
Scripture
that
Christ
first
committed
this
power
to
the
Apostles
,
and
after
to
the
community
;
the
Ministers
and
guides
were
immediately
of
Jesus
Christ
from
whom
immediately
they
derive
their
power
and
authority
,
by
whom
they
are
set
over
their
charge
,
in
whose
name
they
execute
their
Office
,
&c.
Yea
Pastorship
is
the
gift
of
Christ
as
well
as
Apostleship
;
and
every
Pastor
is
not
immediately
called
,
but
the
office
and
order
of
Pastors
,
the
calling
,
authority
and
jurisdiction
is
immediately
from
Christ
,
not
from
the
Church
.
Answ.
First
,
the
power
of
the
Keyes
(
in
a
right
sense
given
to
the
Church
)
tooke
effect
from
the
beginning
in
Christs
institution
,
and
in
the
frequent
practice
of
the
Church
,
as
is
shewed
before
,
and
therefore
this
is
needlesse
to
bee
proved
,
that
it
tooke
effect
after
.
Secondly
,
that
Ministers
and
guides
were
immediately
from
Christ
,
(
if
you
meane
ordinary
officers
)
and
that
every
Pastour
is
not
immediately
called
,
seemes
to
be
a
contradiction
:
the
places
,
Act.
28.
8.
Ephes.
4.
8.
&c.
doe
not
prove
that
all
Officers
are
immedately
from
Christ
,
though
they
bee
set
in
the
Church
by
Christ
and
over
the
Church
by
the
Holy
Ghost
,
&c.
This
the
Lord
can
doe
,
and
doth
doe
by
the
meanes
of
his
Church
walking
according
to
his
rule
and
institution
,
and
therefore
you
must
come
at
last
home
to
our
tenent
,
(
as
here
you
doe
)
that
Pastorship
,
the
office
,
power
,
jurisdiction
,
&c.
annexed
to
it
,
is
immediately
from
Christ
,
viz.
by
his
institution
in
the
Gospel
:
but
Pastors
every
one
that
receive
this
office
,
hath
it
from
Christ
,
but
by
his
Church
calling
them
to
the
same
,
and
in
the
name
of
Christ
applying
it
to
them
:
and
thus
far
we
agree
with
you
.
Reply
.
The
Steward
is
appointed
of
the
Master
of
the
family
alone
,
and
hath
all
his
authority
from
him
.
Every
Embassador
in
the
cause
of
his
Embassage
doth
immediately
depend
upon
him
from
whom
he
is
sent
:
but
if
the
function
,
order
and
authority
of
Pastors
and
Teachers
bee
immediately
from
Christ
,
then
it
is
not
received
from
the
Church
as
the
immediate
receptacle
.
Answ.
Answ.
First
,
though
Pastors
in
respect
of
the
exercise
of
their
function
dispense
the
Word
and
other
Mysteries
of
Christ
as
from
him
immediately
,
and
so
are
fitly
compared
to
Embassadors
and
Stewards
,
yet
in
the
call
of
the
one
and
other
to
that
work
there
is
a
plaine
dissimilitude
,
the
one
being
called
Mediately
,
the
other
Immediately
by
their
Masters
,
and
therefore
in
this
case
it
proves
nothing
.
What
doth
this
argument
conclude
?
if
onely
that
the
function
and
order
is
not
from
the
Church
as
the
first
subject
,
we
readily
grant
it
;
if
the
application
of
the
office
to
such
a
person
,
(
so
farre
as
may
bee
done
by
an
outward
call
)
it
followes
not
at
all
,
for
the
function
and
office
may
bee
from
Christ
,
and
the
application
thereof
by
the
Church
.
Reply
.
Thus
Protestant
Divines
dispute
against
Papists
,
if
Bishops
receive
their
power
and
authority
of
exercising
immediately
from
Christ
by
Mandate
,
Mission
and
commission
from
him
,
then
not
from
the
Pope
,
and
so
for
Presbyters
in
regard
of
the
Bishop
.
Answ.
The
reason
and
ground
of
that
dispute
is
because
the
Pope
claimes
a
plenitude
of
power
from
Peter
,
whence
all
must
see
derived
to
all
Bishops
,
&c.
bee
they
never
so
orderly
chosen
and
ordained
in
their
owne
esteeme
,
and
so
indeed
usurps
the
Prerogative
of
Christ
the
head
of
the
Church
.
The
like
usurpation
●●
its
degree
was
in
the
Bishops
over
Presbyters
:
But
here
the
case
is
farre
different
,
the
Church
claming
no
such
power
,
but
onely
Ministeriall
in
the
outward
call
of
officers
according
to
his
direction
,
and
so
the
application
of
that
office
unto
the
persons
,
which
hath
sufficient
ground
of
Scripture
from
Christ
,
and
therefore
we
grant
the
conclusion
.
viz.
That
they
derive
not
their
power
from
the
people
,
but
from
Christ
:
by
meanes
of
the
Church
Ministerially
and
instrumentally
applying
that
office
to
them
,
whereunto
Christ
hath
annexed
that
power
.
Lastly
the
like
argument
may
be
objected
against
any
other
subject
of
this
power
you
can
or
will
suppose
,
even
the
Presbytery
it selfe
.
Reply
.
It
is
usually
objected
that
the
Church
cannot
convey
what
she
never
had
:
but
the
people
may
elect
their
Pastor
.
Whereunto
the
answer
is
direct
and
plaine
,
nothing
can
give
that
it
had
not
formally
or
vertually
,
unlesse
it
give
it
as
an
instrument
ministring
to
one
that
hath
it
,
but
so
it
may
give
what
it
never
had
,
nor
is
capable
of
.
A
Steward
may
give
all
the
offices
in
his
Masters
house
as
ministerially
executing
his
Masters
pleasure
.
Answ.
This
answer
doth
not
satisfie
,
for
wee
cannot
put
off
our
old
principles
of
Reason
,
that
every
instrument
ministring
to
the
principall
cause
doth
Conferre
vim
ad
effectum
:
and
so
farre
,
or
in
what
sense
it
gives
any
thing
to
the
effect
in
that
sense
,
and
so
farre
it
must
needs
have
vertually
or
formally
the
same
in
itselfe
.
If
a
Conduit
convey
water
ministerially
from
the
fountaine
to
the
house
,
it
hath
water
in
such
a
sense
,
as
it
doth
concurre
to
the
effect
:
and
so
the
Church
cannot
give
the
Keys
to
the
Officers
as
an
instrument
of
Christ
,
but
it
must
be
granted
shee
received
them
from
Christ
vertually
to
give
them
to
the
Officer
.
Secondly
,
for
the
instance
;
if
it
bee
meant
of
a
Steward
giving
the
offices
to
such
persons
as
his
Master
hath
named
thereunto
,
and
he
instals
them
into
the
same
,
the
case
is
not
alike
yet
,
here
hee
must
have
some
power
and
authority
so
to
doe
so
that
he
hath
these
offices
vertually
in
his
hand
,
but
if
it
be
his
Masters
will
,
he
shall
choose
what
persons
hee
sees
fit
according
to
rules
given
him
,
(
which
is
the
case
here
)
then
hee
hath
this
power
vertually
in
his
hand
.
Reply
.
Thirdly
,
if
Ecclesiasticall
and
spirituall
power
be
in
the
multitude
and
community
of
the
faithfull
,
the
Church
doth
not
onely
call
,
but
make
Officers
out
of
power
and
vertue
received
into
her selfe
,
and
then
should
the
Church
have
a
true
Lord
like
power
in
regard
of
her
Ministers
.
Answ.
If
there
be
any
such
that
hold
the
Church
hath
so
the
power
of
the
Keyes
in
her selfe
,
as
that
she
may
derive
from
her selfe
authority
to
the
Officers
,
let
such
looke
unto
the
conclusion
;
as
for
Mr.
Robinson
,
though
wee
doe
not
approve
the
sentences
you
cite
out
of
him
,
yet
we
doubt
whether
you
doe
not
goe
beyond
his
sense
&
meaning
:
but
according
to
our
sense
of
this
position
before
layd
downe
,
neither
this
absurdity
of
Lordship
over
the
Officers
,
nor
any
others
that
are
instanced
in
,
under
this
reason
doe
at
all
follow
;
and
they
may
bee
as
strongly
urged
against
the
Presbyteries
,
Classes
,
Synods
,
Catholick
Church
,
or
any
subject
of
the
Keyes
that
can
be
named
:
And
the
objection
,
viz.
That
God
will
have
the
Church
choose
Officers
to
execute
the
power
committed
to
her
,
is
so
answered
in
the
same
page
,
as
will
serve
us
as
well
as
you
,
viz.
God
will
have
her
elect
Officers
of
his
designment
(
that
is
,
such
as
the
rule
directs
her
to
choose
)
to
doe
his
worke
according
to
that
Power
which
hee
hath
given
them
,
and
by
his
direction
,
and
then
they
are
Gods
servants
and
not
the
Churches
,
and
receive
that
charge
and
function
immediatly
from
God
,
and
not
from
the
people
;
wee
meane
no
otherwise
then
by
that
outward
call
instrumentally
applying
that
Office
unto
them
;
and
in
this
sense
wee
close
with
you
herein
:
and
indeed
this
power
of
electing
Officers
doth
not
ever
include
authority
over
them
whom
they
chuse
,
but
rather
willing
subjection
unto
them
,
and
setting
them
up
to
rule
;
as
when
a
woman
chooseth
a
husband
,
she
makes
him
her
husband
in
a
sort
,
but
withall
her
head
and
ruler
;
so
when
a
people
choose
a
Major
,
&c.
Reply
.
Fourthly
,
if
the
Power
of
the
Keyes
be
given
first
and
immediatly
to
the
community
of
the
faithfull
,
what
reason
can
bee
alleadged
why
in
defect
of
Officers
the
Church
might
not
rule
,
feed
,
bind
,
loose
,
preach
,
and
administer
Sacraments
;
or
if
any
faile
in
Office
,
why
shee
might
not
supply
that
want
by
her
power
,
for
the
power
of
the
Keys
doth
containe
both
authority
and
exercise
,
power
being
given
that
it
may
bee
exercised
,
as
it
is
vouchsafed
:
but
the
Church
cannot
exercise
these
acts
of
rule
.
Ergo.
Answ.
The
reason
is
,
because
the
Church
hath
not
received
some
of
the
Keyes
formally
but
onely
vertually
,
and
(
as
was
said
out
of
Parker
)
not
as
a
gift
absolute
but
conditionall
,
that
it
might
bee
communicated
to
the
Officers
.
Such
power
as
the
body
of
the
Church
hath
received
formally
shee
may
and
doth
exercise
,
as
a
power
of
choosing
Officers
,
a
power
of
judging
in
censures
,
1
Cor.
5.
12.
and
the
like
,
the
power
of
preaching
properly
so
called
&
dispensing
Sacraments
,
&c.
being
acts
of
authority
,
the
Church
hath
them
onely
vertually
,
and
therefore
must
choose
Officers
,
to
whom
Christ
her
Lord
hath
given
authority
in
the
Church
.
A
Corporation
that
by
Patent
from
the
King
hath
many
Priviledges
,
the
power
is
given
to
the
Body
incorporated
,
and
so
it
is
the
first
subject
of
it
,
yet
many
acts
cannot
be
put
forth
,
but
by
Officers
duely
chosen
:
and
so
here
.
Reply
.
For
these
Reasons
(
not
to
insist
on
any
more
)
wee
judge
the
community
of
the
faithfull
,
not
to
bee
the
immediate
receptacle
of
ecclesiasticall
authority
,
and
so
the
Power
of
excommunication
,
not
to
belong
unto
them
.
Answ.
By
this
conclusion
it
appeares
that
how
ever
the
author
began
professedly
against
us
as
Separatists
in
this
point
,
yet
he
followes
the
cause
against
Mr.
Parker
,
with
whom
hee
seemes
to
be
friends
.
Secondly
,
the
power
of
excommunication
may
belong
to
the
Church
or
community
in
respect
of
a
fraternall
power
of
judging
,
though
officiall
authority
bee
not
formally
given
to
the
Church
but
to
the
Officers
.
Reply
.
If
consent
of
Churches
bee
asked
in
this
point
,
to
omit
others
,
the
Churches
of
Scotland
speake
fully
and
expresly
for
us
in
the
second
booke
of
Discip
.
Cap.
1.
The
Church
as
it
is
taken
for
them
that
exercise
spirituall
functions
in
the
Congregation
of
them
that
professe
the
truth
,
hath
a
certaine
power
granted
of
God
according
to
which
it
useth
a
proper
jurisdiction
,
&c.
Beza
de
Presb.
pag.
60.
Helv.
Confess
.
Cap.
18.
Belgick
,
&c.
Answ.
If
consent
of
the
learned
,
godly
,
and
zealous
reformers
were
asked
,
a
cloud
of
witnesses
might
bee
produced
that
hold
the
Church
the
first
subject
of
the
Keyes
,
as
Fulke
,
Whitaker
,
Parker
,
Peter
Martyr
,
Musculus
and
others
,
besides
many
of
the
ancient
Divines
and
Councells
,
Gerson
and
the
Parisian
Divines
well
known
to
the
learned
concerning
quotation
of
the
Scottish
discipline
,
the
first
words
lay
so
weake
a
foundation
as
leave
the
building
ready
to
fall
,
in
these
words
.
The
Church
as
it
is
taken
for
them
that
exercise
spirituall
functions
hath
a
certaine
power
,
&c.
but
where
is
the
Church
so
taken
?
not
in
all
the
New
Testament
that
can
be
proved
with
any
solid
Reason
,
notwithstanding
all
wrastling
of
men
to
find
it
out
;
but
generally
for
the
company
of
the
faithfull
,
either
the
universall
or
particular
Church
;
and
this
sometime
considered
with
her
Officers
:
and
divers
times
as
distinguished
from
them
,
as
Acts
14.
23.
and
20.
13.
28.
Jam.
5.
14.
Revel.
2.
1.
8.
12.
&c.
but
never
contra
,
for
the
Officers
distinguished
from
the
Church
or
body
of
the
Congregation
;
and
therefore
if
the
Keyes
be
given
to
the
Church
,
and
the
plea
of
the
power
of
the
Keyes
to
be
given
immediatly
to
the
Officers
be
in
and
under
the
name
of
the
Church
,
it
will
fall
to
the
Church
of
the
faithfull
,
if
the
Scripture
may
judge
:
indeed
among
the
Papists
,
and
so
the
Prelates
,
the
Clergy
have
long
got
and
held
possession
of
the
name
of
the
Church
,
but
the
testament
of
Christ
will
not
beare
this
foundation
,
but
wee
will
not
trouble
the
Reader
farther
about
humane
testimonies
.
CHAP.
XV.
Position
6.
THat
none
are
to
bee
admitted
Members
but
they
must
promise
not
to
depart
or
remove
unlesse
the
Congregation
will
give
leave
.
Reply
.
It
is
one
thing
abruptly
to
breake
away
when
and
whither
they
please
,
and
forsake
fellowship
another
thing
,
not
to
depart
or
remove
habitation
unlesse
the
Congregation
will
give
leave
;
also
it
is
one
thing
mutually
to
compound
and
agree
,
not
to
depart
from
each
other
without
consent
and
approbation
,
and
other
to
require
a
promise
of
all
that
be
admitted
into
societie
that
they
shall
not
depart
without
the
Churches
allowance
,
if
such
a
promise
be
required
of
all
members
to
bee
admitted
,
wee
cannot
discerne
upon
what
grounds
your
practise
is
warranted
.
Answ.
Wee
are
still
inforced
to
cleare
our
answer
from
mistakes
,
for
it
seemes
the
answer
left
it
doubtfull
,
whether
wee
doe
not
hold
the
position
affirmatively
,
and
in
practise
require
such
a
promise
as
a
part
of
our
Church
Covenant
of
all
that
are
admitted
,
and
therefore
to
cleare
the
case
more
fully
wee
shall
first
minde
the
Reader
with
the
true
meaning
of
the
answer
,
and
then
adde
what
is
needfull
to
take
away
the
scruples
;
and
first
the
answer
saith
,
that
wee
judge
it
expedient
and
most
according
to
rule
,
that
brethren
should
not
forsake
fellowship
,
&c.
but
in
removalls
approve
themselves
,
&c.
Now
this
is
farre
short
of
what
the
position
affirmes
;
for
first
,
that
none
are
to
bee
admitted
without
such
a
promise
,
includes
a
necessity
;
the
answer
speakes
onely
of
expediency
and
agreeablenesse
to
rule
,
not
to
breake
off
abruptly
.
Secondly
,
the
Position
affirmes
the
necessitie
of
a
promise
;
the
answer
speakes
onely
of
the
case
in
practise
,
as
in
many
cases
besides
,
for
the
watch
of
the
Church
reacheth
to
such
particular
acts
of
which
wee
make
no
promise
expresse
in
the
entrance
.
Thirdly
,
the
Position
speakes
of
the
Churches
leave
,
the
answer
acknowledgeth
onely
that
brethren
removing
should
approve
themselves
to
doe
that
which
is
lawfull
,
and
take
counsell
in
such
weighty
affaires
.
By
all
which
it
appeares
that
wee
doe
not
owne
this
position
,
in
judgement
nor
practise
,
and
therefore
in
effect
our
answer
doth
deny
the
same
,
and
is
negative
.
Secondly
,
if
the
words
of
the
answer
bee
not
full
enough
:
(
because
wee
see
our
brethren
here
runne
upon
it
as
a
question
if
such
a
promise
be
required
,
and
Mr.
Rutherford
and
others
take
it
up
as
a
confessed
practise
)
wee
doe
therefore
clearely
and
plainely
deny
the
position
and
affirme
that
wee
doe
not
thinke
that
none
are
to
bee
admitted
without
such
a
promise
;
neither
is
there
any
such
practise
in
our
admissions
of
members
to
require
such
a
promise
;
wee
onely
count
such
removalls
(
especially
of
families
)
an
action
amongst
many
others
whereunto
the
watch
of
the
Church
doth
extend
,
to
prevent
sinne
where
there
is
any
just
ground
of
suspition
thereof
,
and
to
further
the
best
good
of
such
as
are
under
our
charge
by
counsell
,
prayers
,
&c.
If
any
Minister
and
people
of
old
acquaintance
and
deare
affection
,
or
any
other
Christians
cleaving
together
in
love
have
privatly
resolved
or
agreed
together
,
not
to
part
from
each
others
in
any
Church
,
it
is
the
most
that
wee
have
taken
knowledge
of
,
and
wee
thinke
that
hath
beene
very
rare
,
but
for
any
such
publick
promise
,
Covenant
,
or
Church
oath
,
(
as
some
straining
things
to
the
height
have
called
it
)
it
is
not
,
nor
hath
been
required
or
practised
amongst
us
:
this
being
so
,
there
needs
no
grounds
of
that
which
wee
practise
not
.
Reply
.
First
,
you
exclude
all
such
as
bee
not
set
members
from
the
seales
,
and
yet
hinder
them
from
entrance
into
the
Church
society
,
because
they
cannot
promise
continuance
in
the
place
they
are
resident
in
for
the
present
;
here
we
,
desire
to
bee
satisfied
by
the
word
of
God
by
what
you
require
it
,
&c.
Answ.
First
,
We
deny
not
but
divers
may
and
doe
forbeare
to
joyne
because
of
their
unsettlednesse
in
the
place
of
their
present
abode
.
Secondly
,
It
may
bee
in
some
cases
,
some
may
be
advised
by
the
counsell
of
their
private
friends
in
a
Church
to
forbeare
till
they
be
some
way
setled
.
But
that
any
are
debarred
from
Communion
when
they
desire
it
,
because
they
cannot
promise
continuance
,
(
unlesse
other
just
causes
hinder
)
it
neither
suites
with
our
judgement
nor
practise
;
and
if
any
should
practise
other
wayes
,
wee
doe
not
allow
of
the
same
,
and
therefore
it
's
needlesse
to
give
you
reasons
of
what
we
practise
not
.
Reply
.
Secondly
,
It
pertaines
not
to
the
whole
Congregation
to
take
notice
or
bee
acquainted
with
or
judge
of
every
particular
members
removall
:
may
not
a
servant
remove
from
his
Master
to
another
Congregation
,
or
a
father
bestow
his
childe
in
marriage
to
one
of
another
Congregation
,
but
the
whole
Church
must
be
called
to
counsell
in
the
matters
,
&c.
when
Churches
grow
populous
they
must
bee
negligent
or
weary
of
such
a
ta●ke
,
and
for
the
present
to
challenge
so
much
authority
over
one
another
is
usurpation
,
&c.
Answ.
If
our
answer
were
but
attended
,
such
apprehensions
of
our
practise
of
calling
the
whole
Church
to
counsell
in
every
such
case
,
and
all
that
followes
might
be
spared
.
For
thus
we
say
,
Wee
judge
it
expedient
,
&c.
That
none
forsake
fellowship
and
abruptly
breake
off
,
&c.
This
doth
not
imply
a
necessity
of
calling
the
whole
Church
to
counsell
in
every
plaine
and
easie
case
;
many
times
,
and
for
the
most
part
such
removals
are
so
plaine
and
free
from
suspition
of
abrupt
breaking
off
or
forsaking
fellowship
,
that
there
is
no
need
of
counsell
,
as
in
case
of
servants
marriages
,
&c.
and
therefore
no
trouble
to
the
Church
:
and
in
some
removall
of
families
also
,
the
case
is
cleare
,
and
openly
carried
in
the
knowledge
of
many
of
the
Church
,
none
scruple
it
,
and
therefore
at
the
first
demand
of
dismission
or
letters
of
recommendations
,
the
same
are
granted
:
but
in
removall
of
some
members
,
and
in
the
manner
of
the
same
,
there
are
such
difficulties
and
dangers
as
neede
the
prayers
and
counsell
of
the
Officers
and
whole
Church
,
(
as
is
confessed
after
)
nor
doe
wee
say
,
it
pertaines
to
the
whole
Church
to
bee
called
to
counsell
and
judge
of
every
particular
members
removall
,
for
they
may
approve
themselves
to
the
consciences
of
all
mediately
by
advising
with
some
who
may
satisfie
the
rest
,
if
need
be
.
Reply
.
Let
it
be
shewed
,
that
ever
by
divine
right
,
this
power
was
committed
to
the
Church
,
and
we
will
confesse
it
expedient
,
but
till
then
,
wee
thinke
the
Church
over
rigid
,
and
the
members
busiebodies
,
&c.
Answ.
The
rule
of
love
whereby
wee
are
bound
to
exhort
,
admonish
,
seeke
the
edification
and
good
one
of
another
▪
and
that
not
onely
in
generall
(
as
of
all
Christians
)
but
as
members
of
so
neere
relation
in
one
Church
body
,
who
are
bound
to
serve
the
Lord
with
one
shoulder
,
Zeph.
3.
9.
and
to
uphold
the
worship
of
Christ
therein
,
as
this
doth
reach
to
all
the
actions
and
wayes
of
one
another
,
so
in
a
speciall
manner
to
such
an
action
as
this
i●
:
and
we
thinke
this
ground
is
sufficient
to
satisfie
our
practice
as
wee
have
declared
,
which
may
wipe
off
the
aspersion
of
being
rigid
or
busie-bodies
.
Reply
.
In
the
multitude
of
counsellers
is
peace
,
but
over-many
counsellors
oft
causeth
distractions
,
and
different
apprehensions
breed
delayes
.
Answ.
Wee
grant
it
may
doe
so
,
neither
doe
wee
bring
all
cases
to
publike
like
counsell
,
but
the
case
may
bee
such
as
needs
the
publike
counsell
of
all
,
and
as
wee
have
a
gracious
promise
of
the
presence
of
Christ
in
his
Churches
who
is
the
counsellour
:
so
we
confesse
to
his
praise
,
that
we
finde
the
judgment
of
a
Church
of
Saints
in
matters
orderly
carryed
,
and
gathered
up
from
the
various
gifts
of
wisedome
,
grace
,
and
experience
of
many
Christians
(
when
need
is
)
to
be
a
blessed
priviledge
of
Gods
people
to
enjoy
,
and
sanctified
oft
to
the
great
good
of
his
Saints
,
and
being
neglected
and
slighted
hath
been
oft
followed
with
sad
events
.
Reply
.
The
nature
of
your
Church-Covenant
inferreth
not
a
necessity
of
bringing
every
such
businesse
to
the
Church
;
for
you
binde
your selves
mutually
to
watch
one
over
another
,
&c.
but
this
essentially
tyeth
not
any
man
to
a
perpetuall
residence
in
one
place
,
for
then
even
occasionall
absence
should
be
a
breach
of
Covenant
,
without
consent
of
the
Church
.
Answ.
We
grant
,
our
Church-Covenant
neither
requires
every
businesse
to
come
to
publike
counsell
,
nor
perpetuall
residence
in
one
place
:
neither
is
it
so
held
by
us
in
judgement
or
practise
.
Reply
.
You
say
you
bind
your selves
to
no
new
duties
,
but
in
the
word
of
truth
,
it
is
not
required
neither
directly
nor
by
consequence
,
that
no
member
of
a
Church
should
remove
or
occasionally
bee
absent
from
his
habitation
before
hee
have
acquainted
the
Church
whither
he
goeth
,
and
on
what
occasions
,
&c.
Answ.
It
cannot
but
grieve
us
to
see
how
the
Replyer
still
not
content
to
take
all
things
in
the
harshest
sense
,
but
will
also
winde
in
other
matters
into
his
discourse
,
which
may
make
our
practise
seeme
farre
more
rigid
then
it
is
.
First
,
hee
urges
us
as
if
wee
brought
all
cases
of
remove
and
the
occasions
thereof
,
as
marriages
,
&c.
to
the
counsell
of
the
whole
Church
.
Secondly
,
hee
would
by
consequence
inferre
the
like
of
occasionall
absence
,
and
now
hee
weaves
in
that
also
,
as
if
it
were
practised
by
us
to
require
men
to
acquaint
the
Church
with
the
place
whither
they
goe
,
and
the
occasions
of
their
occasionall
absence
,
which
is
farre
from
us
.
Reply
.
And
if
such
businesse
must
bee
determined
on
the
Lords
Day
,
&c.
Answ.
Wee
deny
not
but
the
best
Churches
through
weaknesse
and
temptation
may
spend
too
much
time
in
the
most
necessary
administrations
of
censures
or
other
affaires
:
but
to
possesse
the
world
with
such
feares
upon
so
little
ground
may
argue
the
authors
charity
concerning
our
wisdome
and
christian
care
of
the
Sabbath
was
not
very
great
.
Reply
.
As
for
the
Covenant
it selfe
,
&c.
but
if
yee
constraine
men
to
meddle
with
things
that
belong
not
to
them
,
and
winde
them
up
higher
then
God
,
would
,
and
straine
every
thing
to
the
pitch
you
seeme
here
to
doe
,
a
godly
sober
minde
may
well
pause
before
hee
make
such
a
promise
.
Answ.
If
the
authour
had
not
strained
and
aggravated
things
beyond
our
meaning
in
the
answer
,
and
our
practise
,
this
would
not
have
come
to
so
high
a
pitch
to
trouble
a
sober
godly
mind
:
we
are
perswaded
that
generally
sober
godly
minds
,
that
have
their
pride
and
self-willednesse
in
any
good
measure
mortified
,
doe
count
the
yoake
of
Christ
(
according
to
our
practise
of
this
point
)
to
bee
both
easie
and
profitable
;
neither
doe
wee
require
such
a
promise
of
any
(
as
was
said
)
but
if
any
stumble
at
the
fourth
branch
of
the
first
reason
from
the
nature
of
the
Covenant
,
let
us
a
little
here
cleare
that
scruple
:
when
wee
reason
from
the
nature
of
the
Covenant
,
and
branch
our
reason
into
foure
things
,
it
is
not
to
bee
so
taken
,
as
if
every
one
of
those
foure
things
were
made
a
distinct
promise
in
our
solemne
Covenant
,
for
the
fourth
is
but
an
inference
from
the
three
former
,
as
is
easie
to
observe
and
indeed
it
was
never
made
by
us
a
part
of
the
Covenant
or
a
distinct
promise
of
it
,
either
in
our
judgement
or
practise
.
If
because
we
extend
our
watch
to
the
removals
of
brethren
,
it
be
taken
for
granted
that
we
require
such
a
promise
;
it
will
no
more
follow
,
then
that
we
require
promises
in
admissions
in
a
thousand
cases
to
which
our
watch
also
extends
.
Reply
.
If
any
shall
not
meddle
with
every
businesse
of
this
kinde
,
as
questioning
whether
it
doe
belong
to
him
or
no
,
or
not
aske
the
advise
of
the
whole
societie
,
as
knowing
the
most
bee
unfit
to
counsell
in
such
a
case
,
doth
hee
breake
his
Covenant
therein
,
and
so
commit
a
sinne
in
a
sort
like
the
sinne
of
Ananias
and
Saphira
?
Iudge
your selves
if
in
other
cases
you
would
not
censure
this
to
bee
an
high
incroachment
upon
Christian
libertie
,
and
a
strict
binding
of
mens
consciences
by
humane
constitutions
.
Answ.
To
extend
our
watch
so
farre
as
hath
been
said
unto
these
cases
of
removalls
from
a
Church
,
to
prevent
sinne
in
abrupt
breaking
off
and
forsaking
fellowship
,
and
to
prevent
the
hurt
and
damage
which
the
sheepe
of
Christ
oft
fall
into
in
their
unadvised
breaking
out
of
the
fold
the
Lord
hath
placed
them
in
,
and
to
further
their
best
good
in
their
removalls
;
whatever
is
thought
of
it
,
wee
count
it
no
breach
of
Christian
liberty
,
but
a
priviledge
of
the
Saints
to
bee
under
such
a
watch
,
and
therefore
if
any
shall
neglect
any
duty
that
one
owes
to
another
,
(
so
farre
as
it
tends
necessarily
to
those
ends
)
wee
may
well
reckon
it
as
a
neglect
of
our
Covenant
;
but
because
it
is
offensive
to
compare
this
with
the
sinne
of
Ananias
,
&c.
wee
intreat
our
reverend
brethren
and
the
Christian
Reader
to
consider
,
that
in
the
answer
,
this
stands
in
the
third
thing
noted
in
the
nature
of
the
Covenant
,
and
hath
reference
to
the
duties
of
the
Covenant
in
generall
,
and
is
not
applyed
to
this
particular
case
by
us
,
nor
well
appliable
in
the
manner
here
expressed
.
Secondly
,
it
is
moderated
in
the
answer
which
saith
(
in
some
sort
hee
shall
commit
that
sinne
.
)
If
these
things
doe
not
satisfie
,
wee
wish
it
expunged
,
or
any
other
seeming
harshnesse
,
rather
then
offence
be
given
to
any
.
Lastly
,
that
you
may
not
impute
unto
us
the
infringement
of
Christian
liberty
herein
,
wee
would
acquaint
all
men
with
these
two
things
.
First
,
that
removals
from
one
towne
and
Church
to
another
and
from
full
to
new
Plantations
,
are
frequently
practised
amongst
us
,
with
consent
and
approbation
.
Secondly
,
that
wee
finde
in
experience
,
that
as
there
is
in
sheepe
a
wandring
disposition
,
so
in
this
large
Wildernesse
,
(
wherein
the
Lord
hath
exercised
his
people
with
various
temptations
,
by
liberties
,
by
offers
of
large
outward
accommodations
,
by
wants
and
straights
,
by
various
opinions
vented
by
Satan
and
his
instruments
,
&c.
)
In
these
respects
the
Sheepe
of
Christ
are
so
subject
many
times
to
outrunnings
,
that
wee
finde
more
then
ordinary
need
of
care
and
wisedome
in
this
point
of
our
watch
in
many
cases
;
and
many
that
have
broke
loose
from
the
counsels
of
their
officers
,
friends
,
and
of
the
Church
,
have
deepely
smarted
for
it
;
How
sad
a
case
is
it
when
some
brainsicke
master
of
a
family
,
transported
with
a
fancy
,
an
odde
opinion
,
will
needs
carry
his
whole
family
with
himselfe
to
the
griefe
and
hazard
of
his
godly
wife
and
hopefull
children
,
&c.
from
all
Ordinances
of
Christ
to
a
people
full
of
fanaticall
errours
!
were
it
Christian
liberty
,
or
dangerous
licenciousnesse
to
leave
such
a
man
to
his
owne
counsels
,
and
not
meddle
with
him
?
Reply
.
May
you
not
heare
from
your
owne
grounds
,
that
herein
you
have
devised
an
expedient
or
necessary
rite
or
custome
to
prevent
the
dissolution
of
the
body
,
which
never
came
into
he
minde
of
the
Lord
Jesus
the
Saviour
of
his
body
,
and
in
so
doing
(
if
your
exposition
hold
good
)
you
break
the
second
Commandement
;
and
so
presse
customes
onely
expedient
for
the
time
as
standing
rules
necessary
for
all
times
and
all
persons
,
to
put
that
authority
into
the
hands
▪
of
men
which
God
never
put
upon
them
,
to
obliege
men
to
meddle
in
the
affaires
of
men
beyond
warrant
,
to
binde
consciences
under
so
heavy
●
penalty
as
that
of
Ananias
and
Saphira
,
where
God
hath
not
bound
them
,
to
debarre
approved
Christians
from
the
seales
,
because
they
cannot
promise
as
seiled
members
to
abide
in
the
society
,
and
yet
charge
them
as
men
that
against
light
refuse
subjection
to
the
Gospel
,
this
is
that
which
wee
cannot
approve
,
which
yet
wee
suspect
will
follow
from
your
judgement
,
and
desire
to
bee
resolved
in
your
practise
.
Answ
▪
Here
is
a
greater
heape
of
heavy
criminations
gathered
together
and
cast
upon
us
,
upon
very
weake
grounds
,
upon
mistakes
,
suspitions
,
and
(
wee
feare
)
too
much
credulitie
given
to
some
clamorous
persons
,
returning
to
England
,
and
too
little
credit
given
to
our
true
relations
and
faithfull
professions
:
most
of
these
have
beene
cleared
in
the
former
passages
where
wee
met
with
them
,
and
wee
marvell
how
they
come
in
so
twisted
together
here
againe
;
wee
shall
here
onely
cleare
our selves
of
the
first
,
and
referre
the
Reader
to
their
proper
places
to
see
our
answer
to
the
others
.
Here
it
is
imputed
unto
us
that
wee
have
devised
a
rite
to
preserve
the
unity
and
prevent
the
dissolutions
of
the
body
,
which
wee
conceive
is
intended
of
this
promise
of
not
removall
without
leave
,
which
promise
is
not
required
of
us
nor
made
in
our
Church
Covenant
,
(
as
wee
have
said
)
and
the
ground
of
this
imputation
is
also
a
meere
mistake
arising
from
the
confounding
of
a
second
answer
to
the
objection
against
our
first
reason
,
with
the
second
reason
of
our
practise
,
which
are
distinct
and
have
a
different
▪
scope
,
for
whereas
some
might
object
,
that
this
reason
from
the
Covenant
,
holds
with
such
as
grant
such
a
Covenant
lawfull
,
the
answer
saith
that
some
indeed
question
the
necessitie
of
it
:
but
wee
hope
you
doe
not
question
the
lawfulnesse
,
and
thereupon
the
answer
first
gives
reasons
and
proofes
of
the
lawfulnesse
of
it
.
And
secondly
,
for
the
necessitie
which
is
taken
from
the
nature
of
all
societies
incorporate
,
which
by
a
fundamentall
rule
,
doe
require
of
all
that
enter
into
them
,
and
partake
of
the
priviledges
thereof
,
to
conforme
to
all
such
lawfull
rites
and
orders
as
are
expedient
for
the
well
being
of
that
society
;
the
contrary
whereof
would
bee
injurious
to
him
to
offer
,
and
confusion
in
them
to
accept
;
and
from
hence
it
easily
followes
,
that
a
Church
being
a
body
of
a
people
injoying
priviledges
together
,
it
is
necessary
fundamentally
that
they
should
bee
joyned
in
some
promise
or
Covenant
,
which
Covenant
(
though
in
civill
societies
it
may
consist
in
rites
and
orders
devised
by
themselves
for
their
good
)
yet
in
the
Church
which
is
the
body
of
Christ
,
this
Covenant
is
no
other
but
to
performe
the
duties
required
in
the
Gospel
towards
God
and
one
another
,
without
any
rites
or
order
,
devised
by
themselves
,
as
wee
professed
in
setting
forth
the
nature
of
the
Covenant
;
and
this
being
the
true
scope
of
those
words
,
let
any
judge
what
ground
is
given
by
us
of
such
an
imputation
of
devising
rites
,
&c.
Neither
doth
the
second
reason
in
the
answer
give
any
ground
of
this
imputation
;
for
though
it
dispute
from
the
necessary
ruine
of
the
Church
,
and
all
Churches
,
if
it
were
lawfull
for
any
member
when
,
whither
and
wherefore
hee
please
to
depart
from
the
Church
without
consent
:
yet
there
is
not
one
syllable
that
gives
an
hint
of
any
rite
,
custome
or
order
devised
by
us
,
to
prevent
the
same
,
but
for
the
avoyding
thereof
wee
still
wholly
and
onely
bind
our selves
to
the
rule
of
the
Word
,
to
direct
,
order
,
and
reforme
all
actions
of
this
nature
,
and
to
shew
unto
men
whether
they
may
lawfully
remove
or
not
remove
,
not
requiring
any
expresse
promise
to
the
contrary
in
this
particular
no
more
then
in
others
;
and
thus
wee
hope
wee
have
resolved
you
of
our
practise
,
as
you
desired
.
To
conclude
this
passage
,
give
us
leave
without
offence
to
say
thus
much
.
Although
(
through
the
grace
of
Christ
▪
)
we
desire
humbly
to
submit
to
this
part
of
our
tryall
,
even
to
goe
through
evill
report
as
well
as
good
,
yea
all
the
reproaches
and
cruell
mockings
of
the
world
,
knowing
that
wee
have
deserved
much
more
from
the
hand
of
that
God
without
whose
providence
a
tongue
could
not
move
against
us
;
yet
wee
cannot
but
account
it
one
of
our
poorest
afflictions
to
suffer
in
this
kind
,
from
the
pens
or
tongues
of
our
dearly
beloved
brethren
,
for
whom
wee
daily
pray
,
and
to
whom
wee
hope
wee
shall
never
bee
provoked
to
returne
any
other
language
then
savouring
of
love
and
respect
.
But
wee
must
confesse
wee
meet
with
so
many
sore
criminations
,
(
oft
upon
meere
mistakes
)
cast
not
onely
upon
our selves
,
but
the
truth
and
wayes
of
God
,
which
wee
professe
,
and
that
both
by
this
learned
author
and
some
others
,
that
wee
cannot
be
so
senselesse
of
the
dishonour
is
reflected
upon
the
truth
of
God
herein
,
as
wholly
to
bee
silent
,
and
groane
out
the
griefe
of
our
spirits
to
him
that
knoweth
our
hearts
:
wherefore
wee
humbly
beseech
all
our
godly
brethren
,
to
beare
with
us
a
little
,
if
after
all
the
harsh
passages
of
this
Reply
,
such
an
heape
of
accusations
as
are
here
throwne
upon
us
▪
move
us
to
present
to
the
Reader
a
short
view
of
such
things
as
are
unjustly
and
ungroundedly
cast
upon
us
,
and
which
wee
cannot
but
thinke
hath
drawne
a
black
cloud
over
the
glory
of
the
holy
Discipline
of
Christ
which
hee
hath
here
set
up
among
us
.
To
omit
the
generall
frame
of
this
Reply
,
in
presenting
our
opinions
and
wayes
to
the
people
as
if
wee
concurred
generally
with
those
of
the
Rigid
separation
,
and
differed
almost
in
every
thing
from
such
godly
brethren
as
have
breathed
after
puritie
of
Ordinances
and
Reformation
.
To
omit
also
the
frequent
inserting
of
such
termes
unto
our
questions
and
arguments
contrary
to
the
true
state
thereof
,
which
render
every
thing
harst
and
full
of
rigidnesse
to
the
eares
of
the
Reader
as
have
been
observed
by
us
.
And
omitting
also
divers
other
suppositions
and
objections
,
we
shall
onely
desire
those
who
have
taken
up
evill
thoughts
concerning
these
Churches
and
the
wayes
of
Christ
wee
walke
in
from
this
Reply
,
to
note
these
particular
imputations
in
this
short
Chapter
,
and
upon
what
grounds
they
are
built
.
As
page
79.
That
wee
hinder
men
from
entrance
into
Church
society
,
because
they
cannot
promise
continuance
in
the
Place
▪
and
running
upon
this
straine
he
saith
:
Was
it
ever
heard
of
in
the
Church
of
God
from
the
beginning
thereof
unto
this
day
,
that
any
such
thing
was
propounded
unto
and
required
of
members
,
to
bee
admitted
into
Church
fellowship
?
Here
is
a
loud
outcry
,
and
who
would
not
think
but
that
we
usually
propound
and
require
such
a
thing
in
our
admissions
,
(
which
yet
is
nothing
so
.
)
But
what
is
the
ground
of
all
this
?
Looke
a
little
before
and
hee
saith
,
If
such
a
promise
be
required
.
Againe
ibidem
saith
hee
,
wee
thinke
the
Church
is
over-rigid
in
exacting
such
a
condition
of
the
members
,
and
the
members
goe
beyond
their
measure
as
busie
bodies
,
and
what
is
the
ground
?
It
followes
,
If
they
arrogate
such
a
power
to
themselves
.
So
page
next
80.
In
the
word
it
is
not
commanded
that
no
member
should
remove
or
occasionally
be
absent
from
the
place
of
his
habitation
before
he
have
acquainted
the
congregation
whither
he
goeth
,
on
what
occasion
,
&c.
To
what
end
is
this
inserted
if
not
to
suggest
that
there
is
such
a
practise
among
us
that
a
man
may
not
occasionally
be
absent
,
&c.
which
is
far
from
us
?
And
what
is
the
ground
see
a
few
lines
after
,
The
Church
shall
burthen
herselfe
,
&c.
If
shee
take
upon
her
to
intermeddle
in
all
such
occasions
.
And
immediatly
after
,
wee
feare
the
time
appointed
for
religious
exercises
should
bee
profaned
by
unseasonable
disputes
.
But
what
is
the
ground
of
this
feare
conceived
and
published
to
the
world
,
viz.
If
such
businesses
must
bee
determined
on
the
Lords
day
?
and
that
before
the
Ordinances
,
&c.
because
it
seemes
Robinson
in
case
of
some
notorious
obstinate
offender
,
would
have
some
censure
passed
to
prevent
pollution
of
an
Ordinance
;
and
is
this
ground
sufficient
?
Againe
in
the
same
page
(
for
these
things
are
thick
sowne
)
Herein
,
saith
he
,
you
have
devised
an
expedient
or
necessary
rite
or
custome
to
preserve
unity
,
&c.
but
if
you
seeke
a
ground
it
will
bee
found
a
mistake
▪
●s
is
shewed
before
,
and
contrary
to
the
expresse
profession
of
the
Answer
,
That
wee
promise
no
new
duties
,
but
onely
such
as
the
Gospell
requires
of
all
Saints
in
Church
order
,
much
lesse
doe
wee
set
up
new
rites
and
customes
.
And
as
if
all
these
particular
imputations
in
the
compasse
of
one
leafe
were
two
little
,
Page
next
81.
wee
have
a
whole
Catalogue
gathered
together
from
other
places
and
this
,
that
by
laying
things
together
the
odium
▪
raised
might
stick
the
deeper
:
for
thus
the
words
are
,
But
to
presse
customes
expedient
for
the
time
as
standing
rules
,
necessary
at
all
times
and
all
persons
;
To
put
authority
in
the
hands
of
men
which
God
never
put
upon
them
,
and
to
oblige
them
to
intermeddle
;
To
bind
the
consciences
of
men
,
and
that
upon
so
heavy
a
penaltie
as
the
sinne
of
Ananias
and
Saphira
,
where
God
hath
not
bound
it
▪
To
debarre
knowne
Christians
from
the
seales
,
because
they
cannot
promise
to
abide
in
the
Church
as
setled
members
;
and
yet
charge
them
in
the
meane
season
against
light
to
refuse
subjection
to
the
Gospel
.
Concerning
all
which
wee
doe
not
know
any
of
them
to
be
true
,
nor
approve
any
such
thing
in
any
,
if
it
should
be
found
among
us
.
And
what
is
the
ground
of
all
this
?
Truely
weake
enough
(
as
hath
been
shewed
in
our
discourse
)
and
here
it
is
the
suspicion
of
the
Author
,
for
thus
hee
adds
,
This
is
that
wee
cannot
approve
,
and
yet
wee
suspect
will
follow
from
your
judgement
.
These
things
wee
have
thus
briefly
presented
in
one
view
not
to
dishonour
the
learned
and
reverend
Author
,
whose
memory
wee
honour
;
two
things
we
charitably
take
notice
of
,
to
remove
over
hard
thoughts
of
him
:
First
,
wee
consider
his
spirit
might
bee
over
grieved
and
provoked
to
this
harshnesse
by
the
withdrawings
of
many
Christians
from
the
Ordinances
of
God
because
dispensed
according
to
the
corrupt
Liturgy
,
in
which
cause
he
stood
too
farre
ingaged
,
and
supposing
New-England
wayes
the
cause
of
it
,
he
was
the
more
sharpe
.
Secondly
,
wee
consider
that
this
Reply
was
not
intended
by
him
to
be
published
to
the
world
,
but
to
be
sent
unto
us
,
and
therefore
he
is
in
our
hearts
the
lesse
blamable
.
But
seeing
these
things
are
now
published
,
and
the
harshnesse
thereof
may
do
much
hurt
,
wee
were
pressed
to
cleare
our selves
,
wherein
if
any
thing
▪
reflect
upon
the
Author
or
Publishers
,
wee
cannot
avoyd
it
.
Neither
doe
wee
write
thus
as
if
wee
would
wholly
justifie
our selves
and
all
the
particular
miscarriages
that
happily
at
one
time
or
other
,
in
some
Church
or
other
may
have
happened
;
we
have
much
cause
to
humble
our selves
before
our
God
and
abase
our selves
to
the
dust
before
men
,
for
all
the
weakenesses
,
sinnes
,
errors
and
miscarriages
that
have
beene
found
among
us
,
in
one
kind
and
another
.
Onely
this
wee
may
professe
before
the
Lord
and
his
people
,
that
in
the
maine
scope
of
our
hearts
and
indeavours
of
our
lives
wee
have
sought
after
such
a
forme
of
worship
,
and
frame
of
discipline
,
as
we
could
conceive
by
the
Word
of
God
and
the
helpe
of
the
best
Reformers
to
bee
according
to
the
will
of
Christ
,
not
allowing
our selves
in
any
evill
discovered
unto
us
,
but
bewayling
our
great
defects
in
all
.
Reply
.
And
here
wee
crave
leave
to
put
you
in
mind
of
what
you
have
considered
already
.
That
the
Church
and
every
member
have
entered
into
Covenant
,
to
take
God
for
their
God
,
&c.
but
wee
never
finde
that
they
were
called
to
give
account
of
the
worke
of
grace
wrought
in
their
soules
,
or
that
the
whole
Congregation
were
to
bee
judge
thereof
.
You
stand
here
all
this
day
(
saith
Moses
)
before
the
Lord
your
God
,
&c.
that
thou
shouldest
enter
into
Covenant
with
the
Lord
thy
God
.
All
that
were
borne
in
the
wildernesse
Joshua
circumcised
,
but
it
is
uncredible
to
thinke
there
was
none
that
did
not
give
good
testimony
of
the
worke
of
grace
,
&c.
Because
it
is
a
principall
thing
,
especially
in
the
builders
of
the
Church
,
to
know
their
materials
,
and
because
the
reverend
and
learned
Author
steps
somewhat
out
of
his
way
to
call
us
to
give
answer
in
this
controversie
of
such
great
weight
,
(
especially
in
this
present
turne
of
times
)
wee
shall
therefore
gladly
accept
of
this
occasion
to
declare
our selves
,
with
as
much
brevity
as
we
may
,
to
the
two
branches
of
the
question
.
Qu.
First
,
Whether
the
members
of
the
Church
are
called
to
give
an
account
of
the
worke
of
grace
at
there
admission
thereunto
.
Answ.
1.
Secondly
,
Whether
the
whole
Church
is
to
be
judge
hereof
.
Whether
the
members
of
the
Church
be
called
,
&c.
For
answer
to
which
wee
shall
expresse
our selves
in
these
particulars
,
to
prevent
mistakes
.
First
,
that
the
question
is
not
of
what
may
keepe
a
Church
already
constituted
from
being
accounted
no
Church
,
but
of
what
is
to
bee
required
of
such
as
joyne
unto
a
Church
,
for
a
Church
may
bee
a
true
Church
,
and
yet
be
very
corrupt
,
(
as
is
generally
observed
by
Protestant
writers
,
both
out
of
the
examples
of
some
Churches
in
the
New
Te●●ament
,
and
that
of
the
Old
in
the
great
Apostasie
thereof
)
wee
thinke
(
in
this
same
)
Doctor
Fields
expressions
may
be
safely
L●b
.
1.
●ap.
6.
7
received
:
Some
professe
Christ
(
saith
hee
)
but
not
wholly
and
intirely
,
as
Heretiques
:
some
professe
the
whole
saving
truth
,
but
not
in
unity
,
as
Schismatiques
:
some
professe
it
in
unty
,
but
not
in
sincerity
,
as
prophaine
persons
and
Hypocrites
:
some
in
unity
and
sincerity
:
all
these
are
partakers
of
the
heavenly
calling
by
profession
of
the
truth
,
and
consequently
in
some
degree
and
sort
the
Church
&c.
But
(
wee
thinke
that
(
this
is
no
argument
,
that
either
Heretiques
,
Schismatickes
,
prophane
persons
,
or
Hypocrites
(
if
convictively
discovered
that
such
are
meet
matter
to
be
joyned
to
a
Church
.
Secondly
,
when
a
worke
of
grace
is
required
and
desired
of
those
who
are
to
joyne
to
a
Church
,
the
meaning
is
not
as
if
wee
allowed
none
to
bee
of
the
Church
,
but
reall
Saints
,
and
such
as
give
demonstrative
evidence
of
being
members
of
the
invisible
Church
;
for
we
professe
(
according
to
the
Scripture
and
generall
doctrine
of
all
reformed
Churches
(
what
ever
their
practise
bee
)
that
it
is
not
reall
,
but
visible
faith
,
not
the
inward
being
,
but
the
outward
profession
of
faith
,
(
whence
men
are
called
visible
Saints
)
that
constitutes
a
visible
Church
,
which
faith
so
professed
is
called
visible
,
not
in
the
judgement
of
certainty
,
from
such
infallible
signes
of
it
,
as
may
demonstrate
the
hidden
being
of
it
within
;
but
in
the
judgement
of
charity
which
hopes
the
best
.
(
1
Cor.
12
▪
7
)
in
the
weakest
Christian
and
meanest
profession
,
even
when
it
sometimes
feares
the
worst
,
and
is
not
able
at
the
present
,
to
convince
the
contrary
.
Thirdly
this
judgment
of
charity
(
concerning
the
truth
of
anothers
profession
,
or
that
which
is
called
the
worke
of
grace
)
is
to
be
regulated
by
the
word
,
which
Christ
hath
left
as
a
compleat
rule
,
not
onely
of
faith
but
also
of
love
,
and
charity
to
guide
both
in
their
acts
unto
their
ends
:
and
hence
large
professions
and
long
relations
of
the
worke
of
grace
(
though
full
of
exceeding
glory
,
when
humbly
and
prudently
made
)
wee
exact
not
rigorously
and
necessarily
of
all
,
because
the
rule
of
charity
directs
us
not
so
to
judge
;
because
many
Christians
may
bee
drawne
to
Christ
,
and
have
a
seed
of
faith
,
yet
may
sometimes
not
know
it
,
sometimes
remember
not
the
working
of
it
,
sometimes
(
through
bashfulnesse
,
feare
,
want
of
parts
,
nor
not
trained
up
under
a
knowing
Ministery
)
not
be
able
to
professe
it
so
fully
and
clearely
;
hence
also
to
keepe
out
others
from
Communion
out
of
groundlesse
feares
,
that
all
their
profession
might
bee
in
hypocrisie
,
wee
allow
not
,
because
no
man
in
his
charity
is
to
bee
ruled
by
his
feares
,
but
by
the
word
;
hence
also
to
account
any
unfit
for
the
Church
,
because
their
hearts
cannot
close
with
them
,
or
because
they
like
not
their
spirits
,
speake
not
with
favour
or
any
such
like
principles
,
and
yet
can
give
no
rule
or
convicting
argument
from
the
word
,
why
thus
they
doe
,
we
thinke
is
rigou●
,
not
charity
regulated
by
the
word
;
for
humane
charity
doth
not
make
Gods
Church
,
but
such
persons
which
from
God
according
to
the
rule
of
Gods
charity
,
is
to
receive
,
and
therefore
the
rule
is
to
be
attended
here
:
it
is
necessary
to
looke
for
a
ground
of
certainty
to
faith
,
but
not
for
charity
,
which
cannot
bee
infallibly
▪
certaine
of
anothers
estate
,
and
therefore
upon
a
hopefull
supposition
that
the
premises
their
profession
is
true
,
hopefully
onely
makes
the
conclusion
.
The
question
●eing
brought
to
this
narrow
,
it
will
here
lye
,
viz.
First
,
Whether
profession
of
the
worke
of
grace
,
and
faith
be
not
required
of
those
that
enter
into
the
Church
.
Secondly
,
With
what
profession
of
the
worke
of
grace
,
charity
(
according
to
a
rule
)
is
to
rest
satisfied
.
The
first
wee
thinke
is
writ
with
the
beames
of
the
Sunne
,
for
it
is
evident
,
that
neither
the
Lord
in
the
Old
Testament
,
Exod.
19.
or
in
the
New
Testament
,
Acts
▪
2.
and
in
other
like
Scriptures
,
did
call
for
a
profession
of
the
Doctrine
of
faith
onely
,
but
especially
of
the
worke
of
faith
;
for
when
the
Lord
promised
to
be
a
God
to
his
people
,
Exd.
19.
Deut.
29.
it
was
not
with
this
condition
,
if
they
did
beleeve
his
word
to
bee
true
,
&c.
but
if
they
will
heare
his
voyce
,
and
keepe
his
Covenant
,
which
(
in
a
prepared
people
)
is
a
manifestation
of
a
worke
of
grace
.
So
when
the
Apostles
were
required
to
goe
preach
to
all
Nations
,
and
baptize
them
and
teach
them
,
looke
as
they
did
require
such
a
faith
as
was
saving
,
(
he
that
beleeveth
shall
bee
saved
)
so
upon
the
▪
profession
thereof
they
did
receive
them
,
as
also
appeares
,
Acts
2.
38.
(
which
therefore
could
not
bee
of
the
doctrine
of
faith
,
for
that
the
devils
doe
,
and
tremble
,
and
profane
men
of
much
knowledge
,
may
doe
,
and
yet
unfit
to
bee
received
,
and
therefore
it
was
of
the
worke
of
faith
,
and
therefore
Act.
8.
37.
Philip
not
onely
requires
faith
,
but
a
beleeving
with
all
the
heart
of
the
Eunuch
,
and
upon
such
a
profession
baptized
him
:
and
hence
the
Churches
erected
by
the
Apostles
at
Corinth
,
Colosse
,
Ephesus
,
&c.
are
called
Saints
,
and
sanctified
of
God
in
Christ
Jesus
,
&c.
How
!
was
it
because
debito
and
de
jure
onely
,
they
should
be
so
?
then
all
who
heare
the
Gospell
(
though
they
reject
it
)
might
bee
called
a
Church
,
for
de
jure
,
they
ought
to
be
so
;
Or
was
it
because
there
were
some
that
were
truely
such
amongst
them
,
and
so
in
concreto
,
are
called
a
Church
and
body
of
Christ
?
not
onely
so
,
for
there
may
be
some
visible
Churches
of
visible
Saints
,
and
yet
none
among
them
of
the
invisible
Church
,
unlesse
any
will
thinke
,
that
to
bee
of
the
Church
invisible
is
essentiall
to
the
beeing
and
title
of
a
visible
Church
:
and
therefore
it
was
from
their
profession
of
saving
faith
which
they
maintained
being
a
Church
,
as
it
was
required
to
the
gathering
into
a
Church
:
John
Baptist
also
,
(
though
hee
baptized
none
into
a
new
Church
,
(
and
therefore
might
require
the
lesse
)
yet
as
he
really
promised
remission
of
sinnes
by
the
Messiah
,
so
hee
required
that
very
faith
and
repentance
which
might
make
them
partakers
of
this
heavenly
benefit
;
and
therefore
,
if
what
hee
required
,
they
manifested
by
their
profession
,
and
confession
of
sinnes
,
it
was
not
onely
to
beleeve
the
doctrine
of
faith
,
but
a
saving
worke
of
faith
which
they
held
forth
.
And
therefore
it
is
not
an
outward
profession
of
faith
,
according
to
a
Creed
which
is
required
,
for
then
a
Papist
is
fit
matter
for
a
Church
,
nor
willingnesse
to
heare
the
Word
and
receive
the
Sacraments
,
for
then
heapes
of
prophane
persons
are
to
bee
received
into
the
Church
,
but
it
's
profession
of
a
worke
,
and
saving
worke
of
grace
,
which
being
ever
required
in
the
purest
times
,
is
no
novell
invention
of
some
more
rigidly
inclined
in
these
things
.
To
the
second
,
with
what
profession
(
charity
,
according
to
rule
)
is
to
rest
satisfied
?
Wee
answer
,
that
there
is
a
breadth
in
charity
according
to
rule
and
profession
of
faith
being
but
testimonium
humanum
,
or
a
mans
owne
testimony
concerning
himselfe
,
therefore
as
in
the
most
eminent
profession
,
potest
subesse
falsum
,
there
may
bee
hypocrisie
latent
,
(
it
being
no
divine
testimony
)
so
in
the
weakest
profession
of
the
worke
of
faith
,
potest
subesse
verum
,
id
est
,
there
may
be
truth
in
the
bottome
:
hence
(
man
leaving
all
secrets
to
God
)
the
worke
of
grace
wherewith
charity
is
to
be
satisfied
,
is
one
of
these
two
.
First
,
either
with
that
which
is
onely
verball
,
and
appeares
to
be
false
by
conviction
from
the
word
:
Or
secondly
,
with
that
which
appeares
to
bee
reall
,
which
however
it
may
bee
false
,
yet
it
is
beyond
the
power
of
man
to
convince
(
by
a
rule
)
that
so
it
is
.
We
confesse
wee
are
fearefull
as
of
opening
the
doore
too
wide
,
so
of
shutting
the
doores
upon
any
whom
God
would
have
us
to
receive
in
,
but
for
what
yet
wee
see
or
read
,
from
the
arguments
here
alledged
in
this
Author
,
or
the
writings
of
others
godly
learned
:
wee
thinke
that
Church
charity
is
not
to
rest
satisfied
with
the
first
,
but
with
the
latter
;
for
let
the
profession
of
the
worke
of
faith
bee
▪
never
so
short
,
or
so
weake
,
let
it
be
by
their
owne
immediate
relation
or
by
question
,
yet
if
it
may
but
appeare
to
a
regulated
charity
so
as
to
hope
that
it
is
reall
,
it
is
to
rest
satisfied
then
,
till
God
make
discovery
to
the
contrary
;
wee
intend
not
to
heape
up
arguments
,
nor
answer
scruples
,
but
these
foure
things
seeme
to
evince
as
much
.
1
That
the
Apostles
in
the
3000.
converted
Acts
2.
as
they
were
very
ready
to
receive
them
to
the
fold
of
Christ
,
and
therefore
in
one
day
immediatly
received
so
many
thousands
(
which
could
not
bee
by
large
profession
of
every
one
)
so
also
they
attended
to
the
truth
of
that
profession
,
and
therfore
it
was
not
bare
profession
of
faith
,
but
(
as
it
is
set
downe
for
our
patterne
)
it
was
such
a
profession
as
was
evidently
joyned
with
humiliation
,
pricking
at
the
heart
,
mourning
,
and
crying
out
before
the
Apostles
What
shall
wee
doe
▪
to
be
saved
,
gladly
receiving
the
word
,
which
are
reall
testimonies
of
some
reall
change
from
what
they
were
but
a
little
before
,
and
upon
this
ground
the
Apostles
received
them
.
2
The
Apostles
charge
to
Timothy
,
2
Tim.
3.
5.
From
such
as
have
a
forme
of
godlinesse
and
deny
the
power
of
it
,
turne
away
;
if
bare
profession
were
sufficient
,
why
should
Timothy
turne
from
them
?
(
but
rather
receive
them
who
had
a
forme
of
profession
.
)
And
if
it
was
in
his
power
to
avoyd
them
,
why
should
he
not
reject
them
,
and
that
not
onely
from
private
but
Church
communion
also
,
supposing
them
such
as
not
o
ney
had
a
forme
,
but
might
be
by
a
rule
convinced
thereof
?
3
Lying
and
apparent
untruth
cannot
make
a
man
fit
matter
Rev.
2.
2
and
3.
9.
for
a
Church
,
and
therefore
cannot
bee
a
ground
for
charity
to
rest
on
,
that
so
he
is
:
but
verball
profession
,
which
appeares
not
to
bee
reall
but
false
,
is
palpable
lying
,
and
indeed
more
fit
to
destroy
the
Church
then
to
make
the
Church
.
Hence
Sanctius
in
Zach
▪
14.
14
▪
observes
that
the
greatest
enemies
of
the
Church
are
such
,
qui
eum
fidem
retineant
sanctitatem
abj●cerunt
.
4
If
bare
profession
of
faith
is
a
sufficient
ground
to
receive
men
into
the
Church
,
then
an
excommunicate
person
cast
cut
in
one
houre
should
bee
immediatly
received
in
againe
,
if
hee
will
but
renew
his
generall
profession
of
faith
;
nay
they
the
Indians
in
Maryland
,
who
will
put
on
and
put
off
this
profession
,
as
their
ghostly
fathers
the
Popish
Priests
will
bestow
or
withhold
garments
and
shirts
upon
them
;
should
in
charitie
bee
received
into
the
Church
.
But
if
it
should
bee
asked
how
charity
may
know
the
reality
of
this
profession
,
we
answer
;
so
long
as
the
rule
bee
attended
wee
leave
every
one
to
the
wisedome
of
Christ
,
to
make
▪
application
thereof
,
onely
this
we
doe
add
in
generall
for
more
full
satisfaction
.
1
Such
a
faith
professed
with
the
mouth
,
which
is
confirmed
by
an
innocent
godly
conversation
in
the
life
,
so
as
not
to
live
in
commission
of
any
knowne
sinne
,
or
omission
of
any
knowne
duty
,
wee
say
this
conversation
makes
faith
appeare
reall
,
James
2.
18.
Rev.
22.
14.
wee
conceive
more
is
required
to
make
a
man
appeare
a
fit
member
of
a
Church
,
then
of
a
Common-wealth
,
to
bee
onely
bonus
civis
,
and
bare
civility
is
sufficient
for
this
latter
,
but
not
for
the
former
,
and
therefore
such
a
profession
of
faith
is
needfull
,
as
is
confirmed
by
a
not
onely
a
civill
,
but
a
godly
life
.
2
Such
a
faith
as
is
joyned
with
evident
repentance
,
and
sorrow
,
and
mourning
for
sinne
(
although
there
bee
no
experience
alwayes
of
such
a
holy
life
antecedently
seene
)
for
thus
it
was
Act.
2.
37
,
38.
for
the
riches
of
Christs
grace
is
such
as
not
onely
to
receive
experienced
christians
into
his
family
and
house
,
but
also
the
weakest
and
poorest
(
who
may
stand
in
most
need
of
Christs
Ordinances
)
and
that
as
soone
as
ever
they
seeme
to
bee
brought
in
;
and
therefore
experience
of
a
blamelesse
life
is
not
alwayes
necessary
for
admission
into
the
Church
:
some
think
indeed
that
the
Apostles
received
in
the
first
converts
,
(
Act.
2.
39.
)
so
soone
,
because
they
had
an
extraordinary
spirit
of
discerning
,
but
if
they
had
so
:
yet
they
did
not
receive
them
in
here
according
to
that
,
for
they
received
divers
hypocrites
in
,
as
Ananias
and
Sapphira
,
&c.
and
if
all
other
of
their
acts
in
this
chapter
were
exemplary
,
why
should
this
onely
bee
thought
to
be
otherwise
and
extraordinary
?
3
When
there
is
full
and
sufficient
testimony
from
others
of
their
faith
and
piety
,
although
their
humiliation
,
faith
and
conversation
bee
not
so
well
knowne
,
for
wee
see
the
Church
received
Paul
,
when
Barnabas
had
declared
what
God
had
done
for
him
;
and
if
it
may
bee
just
to
condemne
another
by
the
testimony
of
two
faithfull
witnesses
,
it
may
not
bee
unchristian
to
receive
an
other
into
the
fold
of
Christ
(
much
more
readily
)
upon
the
testimony
of
able
and
faithfull
Christians
,
especially
then
when
they
be
not
able
openly
,
and
publiquely
ro
speake
so
fully
for
themselves
,
and
thus
much
for
answer
to
the
first
question
2
Question
,
Whether
this
profession
is
to
bee
judged
by
the
Church
.
Answer
,
1.
The
faithfull
as
they
did
at
first
combine
into
a
Church
,
so
it
is
their
duty
to
receive
others
to
themselves
,
as
the
Church
did
,
Acts
9.
26
,
27.
encouraged
by
Barnabas
and
the
Apostles
,
and
as
the
Apostle
commands
,
Rom.
14.
1.
which
although
it
was
of
fellow-members
into
their
affections
,
yet
the
proportion
holds
strong
for
receiving
commers
into
the
Church
.
Joh.
Ep.
3.
8
,
9
,
10.
2
If
they
bee
to
receive
them
,
they
must
by
some
meanes
know
them
,
to
bee
such
as
they
may
comfortably
receive
into
their
affections
,
a
little
leaven
leavening
the
whole
lumpe
.
1
Cor.
5.
3
The
Officers
of
the
Church
,
(
who
are
first
privately
to
examine
them
)
and
prepare
them
for
admission
)
are
to
shew
the
Church
the
rule
on
which
the
Church
is
to
receive
them
,
and
themselves
are
ready
to
admit
them
.
Act.
10.
37.
Can
any
forbid
water
,
&c.
This
rule
was
best
seene
by
that
publike
profession
before
the
whole
Church
,
and
if
no
just
exception
bee
made
(
as
one
should
bee
without
conviction
)
they
are
to
be
admitted
by
the
Officers
with
the
consent
of
the
members
hereunto
,
for
if
publike
profession
is
needfull
at
least
before
the
Church
,
though
not
the
world
alway
(
as
Didoclavius
observes
)
to
the
entrance
into
the
Covenant
and
Church
by
baptisme
;
wee
see
no
reason
,
but
persons
formerly
baptized
,
and
entering
a
new
into
the
Church
,
but
they
should
openly
professe
their
faith
againe
:
the
visible
Church
being
built
upon
this
rocke
,
Matth.
16.
16
,
18.
viz.
Profession
of
the
faith
of
Christ
;
and
lastly
,
if
there
should
be
no
necessity
for
such
a
profession
,
yet
if
this
bee
desired
of
the
people
of
God
,
for
the
increase
of
their
owne
joy
to
see
God
glorified
,
and
Christs
name
professed
,
and
his
vertues
held
forth
,
and
for
the
increase
of
their
love
to
those
that
joyne
with
them
,
why
should
it
not
be
done
before
Saints
,
which
should
bee
done
before
persecutors
?
1
Pet.
3.
15.
What
is
now
said
,
we
thinke
sufficient
to
undermine
what
is
opposed
herein
by
others
,
and
may
easily
give
answer
to
the
three
arguments
of
the
learned
Authour
,
from
the
example
of
the
Church
of
Israel
,
John
Baptist
and
the
Apostles
,
and
so
cleare
up
our
practise
,
and
judgement
to
the
world
from
the
aspersion
of
our
rigidum
examen
for
which
we
are
by
some
condemned
,
but
for
further
clearing
,
we
shall
answer
to
the
particulars
.
Now
to
your
Reasons
more
particularly
against
this
from
the
Old
Testament
,
and
the
manner
of
entring
and
renewing
Covenant
then
.
Answ.
Wee
answer
,
first
,
when
as
you
say
,
they
professing
the
Covenant
promised
to
take
God
for
their
God
,
to
keepe
the
words
of
the
Covenant
and
doe
them
,
to
seek
the
Lord
with
all
their
hearts
,
to
walke
before
him
in
truth
and
uprightnes
,
this
implyeth
a
profession
of
a
worke
of
grace
.
Secondly
,
They
did
not
immediately
enter
into
Covenant
,
but
the
Lord
was
long
before
preparing
them
for
it
,
for
they
were
humbled
much
in
Egypt
,
in
so
much
as
their
sighings
came
up
to
God
,
Exod.
2.
23
,
24
,
25.
They
had
seene
the
glory
of
God
for
their
good
against
Pharaoh
,
and
all
that
Land
,
by
many
miracles
,
they
had
Gods
visible
presence
in
the
Cloud
;
were
instructed
by
Moses
concerning
the
Covenant
of
grace
made
with
them
in
Abraham
;
they
were
mightily
delivered
at
the
Red
Sea
,
so
that
they
beleeved
Moses
and
feared
the
Lord
and
sang
his
praise
,
Exod.
14.
31.
Psalme
106.
12.
They
were
also
instructed
againe
concerning
the
Covenant
,
and
were
to
sanctifie
themselves
three
dayes
legally
,
(
which
was
for
spirituall
ends
,
and
of
spirituall
use
,
Exod.
19.
10.
)
and
thus
being
prepared
as
fit
matter
for
Covenant
,
they
then
entered
thereinto
.
And
they
were
all
of
them
(
for
ought
we
know
)
thus
externally
and
ecclesiastically
holy
,
though
many
were
internally
stiffe-necked
,
blind
and
prophane
.
And
for
our
parts
we
desire
no
more
then
such
a
preparation
in
some
worke
of
grace
,
if
appearing
(
though
not
indeed
)
reall
as
may
make
way
for
Church
Covenant
,
among
a
people
now
as
we
see
was
then
.
Reply
.
When
John
Baptist
began
to
preach
the
Gospell
,
and
gather
a
new
people
for
Christ
,
he
admitted
none
but
upon
confession
of
their
sinnes
,
but
we
read
of
no
question
that
hee
put
forth
to
them
to
discover
the
worke
of
grace
in
their
soules
,
or
repelled
any
upon
that
pretence
that
voluntarily
submitted
themselves
.
Answ.
Though
the
Scripture
record
such
things
very
briefly
,
(
else
the
world
would
not
have
contained
the
Bookes
that
must
have
been
written
,
as
John
speaketh
,
)
yet
he
that
advisedly
considers
the
case
,
may
see
the
profession
of
a
work
of
grace
in
all
that
were
received
by
John
to
his
baptisme
.
First
,
John
was
sent
with
the
Spirit
and
power
of
Elias
,
to
turne
the
hearts
of
the
fathers
,
&c.
to
cast
down
every
high
hill
,
&c.
Secondly
,
His
baptisme
is
called
the
baptisme
of
repentance
,
for
the
remission
of
sinnes
,
Mark
.
1.
4.
Thirdly
,
confession
of
sins
is
ever
put
for
true
repentance
,
when
there
is
a
promise
of
pardon
made
to
it
,
Prov.
28.
13.
1
John
1.
9.
and
therefore
when
he
requires
confession
of
sins
,
was
it
without
remorse
or
sorrow
for
it
?
was
it
not
with
profession
of
faith
in
the
Messiah
,
which
he
pointed
unto
,
Joh.
1.
29.
and
required
with
repentance
,
Act.
19.
4.
Fourthly
,
did
not
hee
fall
upon
the
Pharisees
with
dreadfull
thundering
of
Gods
judgements
,
for
comming
to
his
baptisme
without
conversion
of
heart
,
and
fruits
meet
for
repentance
?
Mat.
3.
7.
and
this
Luke
saith
,
hee
preached
to
the
multitude
,
Luke
3.
7.
and
whether
any
were
received
that
embraced
not
that
Doctrine
,
and
shewed
the
same
in
their
confession
,
viz.
that
their
hearts
were
humbled
,
and
that
the
renounced
their
high
thoughts
of
their
priviledges
of
the
Law
,
&c.
and
professed
amendment
&
fruits
meet
for
the
same
,
it
will
be
hard
for
any
to
prove
:
and
thus
much
is
evident
:
on
the
contrary
that
Pharesees
&
Lawyers
distinguished
from
the
People
and
Publicans
rejected
the
counsell
of
God
in
not
being
baptized
of
him
,
and
what
counsell
but
that
wholesome
doctrine
of
John
,
Luke
7.
29
,
30
?
Lay
all
these
together
,
and
let
any
whose
thoughts
are
not
prepossessed
with
prejudice
,
say
,
whether
this
confession
was
not
such
a
profession
of
faith
and
repentance
,
which
a
discerning
charity
ought
to
take
for
a
worke
of
grace
.
Repl●
.
It
appeares
many
wayes
that
when
the
Apostles
planted
Churches
,
Acts
●●8
.
●
.
37.
19.
●7
,
●●
,
●9
▪
they
made
a
Covenant
betweene
God
and
the
people
whom
they
received
.
But
they
received
men
upon
the
profession
of
faith
,
and
promise
of
●mendment
of
life
,
without
strict
inquiry
what
worke
of
grace
was
wrought
in
the
soule
,
so
in
after
ages
,
&c.
Now
the
profession
at
first
required
of
all
that
were
received
to
baptisme
,
was
that
they
beleeved
in
the
Father
,
Sonne
and
holy
Ghost
.
This
was
the
confession
of
the
Eunuch
,
when
he
was
baptized
:
I
beleeve
that
Jesus
Christ
is
the
Son
of
God
.
Answ.
Wee
cannot
but
observe
how
still
the
evidence
of
the
truth
of
what
wee
proved
in
the
third
and
fourth
positions
,
breakes
out
at
every
turne
,
when
the
heat
of
that
disputation
doth
not
hinder
,
for
if
the
Apostles
planted
Churches
and
made
a
Covenant
betweene
God
and
the
people
when
they
baptized
them
,
as
the
proofes
for
this
Act.
2.
38.
and
8.
37.
and
19.
17
,
18
,
19.
alledged
in
the
margent
shew
,
then
still
it
appeares
they
admitted
men
into
planted
Churches
when
they
baptized
them
,
and
the
●efore
the
Apostles
ordinary
and
first
leading
practise
and
examples
are
for
those
Position
,
not
against
them
.
2
You
grant
here
that
Acts
2.
and
8.
and
19.
there
was
a
profession
of
faith
and
promise
of
amendment
of
life
,
and
so
wee
must
suppose
though
not
expressed
,
for
how
else
could
the
Apostles
distinguish
such
as
gladly
received
the
word
,
from
the
mockers
and
others
?
Now
let
us
consider
what
kinde
of
profession
this
must
bee
by
the
story
it selfe
.
The
Apostle
Peter
in
his
doctrine
presseth
three
things
.
1.
Conversion
or
repentance
for
their
sinnes
:
2.
Faith
in
Christ
in
those
words
,
Bee
baptized
in
the
Name
of
the
Lord
Jesus
Christ
,
Verse
38.
3.
With
many
other
words
he
exhorted
them
,
saying
,
Save
your selves
from
this
untoward
generation
,
that
is
,
this
was
the
scope
of
and
substance
of
his
exhortation
,
which
includes
a
gathering
themselves
to
the
Church
.
Now
the
Text
saith
,
in
respect
of
the
first
,
That
they
were
pricked
to
the
heart
,
and
cryed
out
Men
,
and
Brethren
what
shall
wee
doe
?
2.
They
gladly
received
the
word
,
that
is
of
faith
in
Christ
,
and
the
duty
of
obedience
to
the
Gospell
,
and
how
did
all
this
appeare
,
but
by
their
profession
?
and
what
kinde
of
confession
can
any
man
think
such
soules
would
make
,
but
a
broken
hearted
gracious
confession
,
which
to
any
discerning
charity
must
be
taken
to
argue
a
worke
of
grace
?
so
that
the
very
character
given
of
them
by
the
holy
Ghost
,
in
so
briefe
an
History
,
doth
cleerely
evince
what
we
contend
for
.
Consider
also
the
story
,
Acts.
8.
and
first
,
not
to
passe
over
what
is
said
of
Simon
Magus
,
of
whom
it
is
said
,
Hee
beleeved
,
was
baptized
,
continued
with
Philip
,
and
wondered
,
so
that
no
doubt
they
took
him
for
a
true
beleever
,
but
when
Peter
discovered
his
falsnesse
,
see
what
hee
saith
,
Verse
21.
Thou
hast
no
part
nor
lot
in
this
matter
,
and
the
reason
is
,
For
thy
heart
is
not
right
in
the
sight
of
God
.
Let
any
here
consider
,
that
if
hee
had
no
part
nor
lot
in
Christ
and
baptisme
,
&c.
because
not
right
,
whether
the
Apostle
Peter
or
the
Church
would
have
received
him
,
if
such
had
been
discovered
before
.
And
for
the
Eunuch
,
Philip
requiring
his
profession
of
faith
▪
If
thou
beleevest
with
all
thy
heart
,
looked
for
a
sound
▪
worke
of
grace
,
and
though
it
was
delivered
in
those
words
which
are
the
Fundamentall
truth
,
That
Jesus
is
the
Sonne
of
God
,
yet
it
includes
true
faith
in
him
for
salvation
:
as
we
see
our
Saviour
Christ
takes
that
confession
of
Peter
for
true
faith
,
Flesh
and
●lood
have
not
revealed
this
to
thee
,
but
my
Father
:
and
promised
to
build
the
Church
on
this
rocke
,
Matth.
16.
Yea
it
includes
subjection
unto
him
as
the
Sonne
of
God
,
the
Prophet
and
King
of
his
Church
,
and
this
is
no
rare
,
but
a
common
thing
in
the
New
Testament
,
by
one
fundamentall
truth
,
beleeved
and
confessed
,
to
include
true
faith
and
profession
of
the
whole
truth
that
suites
with
that
foundation
,
as
Rom.
10.
9.
so
expounded
,
Verse
10
,
11.
as
being
more
then
historicall
faith
,
so
1
John
4.
1
,
2.
and
5.
1.
The
like
characters
of
a
penitent
and
gracious
carriage
and
confession
may
be
observed
,
Act.
19.
17
,
18
,
19.
And
seeing
you
have
given
us
this
occasion
to
lay
downe
some
grounds
of
our
practise
from
the
first
patternes
,
we
shall
add
a
word
or
two
to
take
away
the
conceit
of
novelty
,
which
is
imputed
to
us
in
this
point
as
much
as
in
any
thing
else
.
Tertullian
saith
in
his
booke
of
prescriptions
,
Wee
admit
no
man
to
any
disputation
about
divine
things
,
unlesse
hee
first
have
shewed
us
of
whom
he
received
the
faith
and
became
a
Christian
;
and
secondly
,
whether
hee
admit
and
hold
the
generall
principles
,
wherein
all
Christians
doe
and
ever
did
agree
,
otherwise
proscribing
against
him
as
an
alien
from
the
Common-wealth
of
Israel
.
And
if
in
those
times
they
were
so
strict
in
admitting
men
to
disputations
,
no
doubt
much
more
in
receiving
men
to
Church
Communion
.
But
if
this
seeme
not
full
enough
,
take
another
:
in
the
Churches
of
old
,
there
were
Catechumeni
,
instructed
for
enterance
into
the
Church
by
baptisme
,
with
whom
they
tooke
much
paines
in
sanctifying
them
,
before
;
by
fasting
and
prayer
,
and
often
preaching
to
them
.
And
for
their
admission
,
there
were
foure
things
in
use
among
them
,
1.
Nominis
professio
,
2.
Scrutinium
,
3.
Abrenuntiatio
,
4.
Fidei
professio
.
Their
Scrutinium
which
they
call
Examen
competentium
,
or
the
examination
of
such
as
were
competent
,
or
fitting
for
admission
,
This
Examen
was
very
strict
as
is
observed
out
of
Alcuinus
,
by
learned
*
Cham.
de
Bap.
lib.
5.
cap.
15.
Chamier
,
Fiant
scrutinia
,
ut
explorentur
saepius
,
an
post
renuntiationum
Satanae
,
sacra
verba
datae
fidei
radicitus
corde
defixerint
,
i.
e.
Let
examinations
be
made
,
that
it
oft
may
bee
tryed
,
whether
they
have
deeply
fixed
in
the
heart
the
sacred
words
of
their
professed
faith
.
And
what
ever
any
may
thinke
of
the
strictnesse
of
that
their
discipline
,
in
this
point
Chamier
gives
a
large
testimony
,
by
way
of
approbation
of
the
same
,
whose
words
upon
it
are
these
,
Certe
nemo
improbare
potest
,
seriam
in
tam
sanctis
rebus
diligentiam
,
ne
quantum
fieri
poterit
lateant
Simones
,
&c.
i.
Certainely
no
man
can
disallow
such
serious
diligence
,
to
prevent
profanation
of
sacred
things
,
lest
(
so
farre
as
it
is
possible
)
such
as
Simon
Magus
may
lye
hid
:
And
saith
hee
,
the
Apostles
went
before
in
their
examples
,
for
Philip
,
Acts
8.
being
demanded
of
the
Eunuch
,
What
hinders
mee
that
I
may
not
bee
baptized
?
hee
answereth
not
simply
thou
mayst
,
but
with
this
supposition
added
,
if
thou
beleevest
with
thy
whole
heart
.
Now
this
profession
of
their
faith
was
either
by
reciting
the
Creed
in
an
eminent
place
before
all
the
people
,
and
that
praeclarâ
●iduciâ
,
with
full
affiance
,
as
hee
observes
out
of
Clement
and
Augustine
,
or
else
respondendo
interroganti
Sacerdoti
per
singula
in
subsidium
forte
pudoris
aut
memoriae
,
i.
e.
By
answering
to
the
Minister
propounding
questions
,
concerning
their
faith
for
helpe
of
their
bashfulnesse
,
or
want
of
memory
.
Also
Beza
in
his
Epist.
14.
Commending
much
the
severity
and
zeale
of
former
Pastors
and
Churches
in
this
kind
,
and
bemoaning
the
negligence
of
such
as
followed
,
from
whence
hee
saith
it
is
,
that
the
Church
without
a
miracle
could
not
rise
out
of
its
filth
,
he
concludes
thus
,
Itaque
frustra
disputabitur
tum
voce
tum
scriptis
,
nisi
conversione
cordium
&
〈◊〉
〈◊〉
〈◊〉
〈◊〉
〈◊〉
initium
instaurationis
sumatur
.
Reverend
Mr.
Hildersam
in
his
treatise
of
the
doctrine
of
the
Lords
Supper
,
to
that
question
,
whether
the
people
that
come
to
the
Lords
Table
,
bee
bound
to
make
knowne
their
knowledge
and
spirituall
estate
to
their
Pastor
.
Answers
thus
,
yes
verily
,
for
seeing
,
Matth.
3.
6.
Acts
8.
37.
God
required
of
them
,
that
(
being
of
yeares
of
discretion
)
were
to
bee
baptized
,
that
they
should
make
knowne
to
the
Congregation
or
their
Minister
their
,
faith
and
repentance
,
hee
doth
every
whit
as
much
require
this
of
them
that
are
to
come
to
the
Lords
Supper
.
Whereby
we
see
,
1.
that
his
judgement
was
that
,
Act.
8.
and
Mat.
3.
the
people
did
make
known
their
spirituall
estate
to
the
congregation
or
Minister
,
when
they
professed
faith
and
repentance
:
and
secondly
,
that
the
same
ought
now
so
to
bee
.
Lastly
,
We
may
appeale
herein
to
the
consciences
of
very
many
godly
Ministers
,
in
our
deare
England
,
whether
they
groane
not
under
the
mixture
of
the
precious
with
the
vile
,
in
the
Ordinances
of
Christ
,
and
would
not
gladly
have
it
otherwise
,
which
cannot
bee
without
such
a
way
of
admissions
into
the
Church
as
we
plead
for
,
or
else
in
constituted
(
but
corrupted
)
Churches
,
by
casting
out
such
as
after
admonitions
appeare
impenitent
in
sin
,
by
the
severity
of
discipline
.
And
this
was
evident
by
the
qualifications
of
persons
to
be
received
to
the
Lords
Table
,
voted
at
first
by
the
present
Reverend
Assembly
,
and
presented
in
their
Directory
to
the
Parliament
,
if
wee
bee
not
mis-informed
:
whose
words
are
these
,
None
are
to
bee
admitted
thereto
(
meaning
the
Lord
Suppers
)
but
such
as
being
baptized
are
found
upon
carefull
examination
by
the
Minister
,
before
the
other
Church-Officers
,
to
have
a
competent
measure
of
knowledge
and
ability
to
examine
themselves
,
and
professe
their
willingnesse
to
submit
thewselves
to
all
the
Ordinances
of
Christ
,
and
are
of
approved
conversation
according
to
Christ
:
the
ignorant
and
scandalous
are
not
to
bee
admitted
,
nor
those
of
another
Congregation
,
unlesse
they
have
sufficient
testimony
or
be
very
well
knowne
.
If
it
bee
objected
,
that
some
of
these
instances
concerne
unbaptized
persons
onely
,
which
is
not
our
case
;
Answ.
1.
Multitude
of
baptized
persons
in
these
dayes
are
as
ignorant
and
prophane
as
some
unbaptized
;
and
therefore
as
apt
to
pollute
Gods
Ordinances
:
2.
Chamiers
reason
,
why
unbaptized
persons
were
to
go
under
such
strict
examination
,
holds
good
in
our
case
.
3.
Such
profession
of
faith
was
required
by
John
and
the
Apostles
of
those
that
were
Church
members
before
.
Reply
.
The
Creed
is
honored
by
the
Ancients
with
glorious
titles
,
as
the
rule
of
faith
,
&c.
by
which
they
understood
that
rule
of
faith
given
by
Christ
,
when
hee
was
about
to
ascend
,
and
commanded
his
Disciples
,
saying
,
Goe
teach
al
Nations
.
In
after
times
some
Articles
were
added
for
explanation
,
to
meet
with
the
heresies
of
those
times
,
but
for
substance
,
the
Church
never
required
other
acknowledgement
,
&c.
Answ.
If
you
meane
that
which
is
called
the
Apostles
Creed
,
it
is
justly
doubted
whether
it
bee
so
ancient
,
however
,
the
times
which
followed
the
Scripture
patterns
,
are
both
obscure
to
us
,
and
no
infallible
pattern
,
yet
many
Churches
used
great
strictnesse
,
as
is
shewed
,
in
receiving
and
restoring
fallen
members
,
and
if
afterward
heresies
gave
just
occasion
to
require
further
professions
of
the
doctrine
of
faith
,
and
to
add
more
articles
for
explanation
,
why
may
not
the
Churches
require
a
more
explicate
confession
of
the
work
of
faith
and
repentance
,
the
formality
and
meere
outside
profession
of
so
many
Civilists
,
Formalists
,
and
Atheists
requiring
the
same
?
Reply
▪
If
you
put
men
to
declare
that
worke
of
grace
God
hath
wrought
in
this
or
that
way
,
which
perhaps
is
not
determined
by
the
word
of
grace
,
at
least
not
agreed
upon
amongst
your selves
,
wee
beseech
you
to
consider
by
what
authority
you
doe
it
,
and
upon
what
ground
you
stand
.
Answ.
This
is
but
upon
a
supposition
,
if
so
&c.
which
is
contrary
to
our
judgement
,
and
professed
practise
to
limit
the
spirit
of
grace
in
the
workings
of
it
.
If
any
have
so
done
,
(
as
it
may
bee
in
the
times
of
opinions
prevailing
among
us
)
wee
doe
not
owne
it
,
but
disapprove
the
same
.
It
is
enough
for
us
to
see
any
have
some
way
,
or
by
some
meanes
or
other
beene
humbled
for
sinne
,
brought
home
to
Christ
by
faith
,
or
have
any
breathings
of
the
Spirit
of
Christ
,
with
a
life
answerable
to
the
Faith
of
Christ
.
CHAP.
XVI
.
Position
7.
That
a
Minister
is
so
a
Minister
of
a
particular
Congregation
,
that
if
they
dislike
him
or
leave
him
unjustly
,
hee
ceaseth
to
be
a
Minister
.
Reply
.
The
question
is
of
Ministers
unjustly
forsaken
or
driven
from
the
Church
,
and
your
answer
is
for
most
part
of
Ministers
,
set
aside
or
deprived
by
their
owne
default
:
wee
never
purposed
to
speake
one
word
for
an
unworthy
Minister
,
whom
Christ
hath
put
out
of
Office
,
and
therefore
your
labour
to
prove
that
such
justly
rejected
by
the
the
Church
,
are
no
longer
Ministers
,
might
well
have
beene
saved
.
Answ.
The
ground
of
this
Position
being
about
the
Nature
of
a
Ministers
Office
;
Whether
it
consist
in
his
Office
,
relation
to
the
flocke
of
a
particular
Church
:
the
former
part
of
our
answer
was
not
in
vaine
,
nor
the
grounds
impertinent
,
and
wee
accept
your
grant
of
it
,
That
a
Minister
justly
rejected
by
his
Church
is
no
longer
a
Minister
:
then
wee
inferre
that
there
is
no
indelible
character
in
the
Office
,
but
that
his
Ministery
stands
in
relation
to
a
particular
flocke
,
not
to
the
Catholike
Church
,
for
then
a
particular
Church
could
not
dissolve
his
Office
,
and
therefore
it
will
follow
,
that
(
if
hee
bee
found
worthy
after
)
upon
repentance
to
bee
called
to
another
Church
,
hee
must
bee
new
elected
and
ordained
to
his
Office
,
being
no
Minister
upon
his
just
deposing
.
Reply
.
But
wee
will
examine
your
conclusions
upon
which
you
build
the
sentence
which
you
passe
against
them
;
first
it
is
certaine
,
&c.
Answ.
What
is
said
to
the
first
is
spoken
before
,
and
we
will
not
repeat
things
in
vaine
.
Reply
.
Secondly
,
The
power
of
feeding
,
which
the
Minister
hath
,
is
neither
confined
to
one
society
onely
,
nor
nextly
derived
to
him
from
Christ
by
the
Church
.
The
Office
and
authority
of
a
Pastour
is
immediately
from
Christ
,
the
deputation
of
the
person
which
Christ
hath
designed
is
from
the
Church
ministerially
,
but
neither
vertually
nor
formally
.
Answ.
These
things
about
the
call
of
a
Minister
by
the
Church
were
also
spoken
to
before
,
when
wee
spake
of
the
power
of
the
Keys
,
and
the
first
subject
thereof
,
and
therefore
the
assertion
being
granted
,
these
things
might
well
be
spared
,
but
what
we
finde
here
more
then
in
the
other
place
,
we
shall
consider
.
The
power
of
the
Church
in
electing
her
Officers
is
so
cleare
in
the
Scripture
,
and
so
confessed
a
truth
by
the
godly
learned
,
that
it
cannot
bee
denyed
,
yet
here
seeme
to
be
given
so
many
restrictions
in
the
case
,
that
they
much
abate
and
weaken
this
great
and
precious
liberty
and
power
given
by
the
Lord
.
1.
That
the
power
and
Office
of
a
Pastor
is
immediately
from
Christ
by
his
institution
is
granted
,
but
the
question
is
,
how
this
man
comes
to
have
this
Office
applyed
to
him
;
if
immediately
,
then
hee
is
in
this
an
Apostle
,
if
mediately
,
it
is
by
the
Church
,
or
else
shew
by
whom
2.
That
the
Church
choose
Ministerially
,
and
ought
to
choose
whom
Christ
hath
described
in
his
word
,
and
fitted
with
gifts
,
and
so
farre
designed
by
Christ
wee
grant
,
but
what
if
there
bee
twenty
such
?
Which
of
them
doth
Christ
designe
,
but
whom
the
Church
freely
choose
?
and
therefore
that
is
no
diminution
of
their
power
,
that
they
must
choose
ministerially
,
and
whom
Christ
so
designes
.
The
case
is
alike
in
all
other
Ordinances
dispensed
,
Examination
is
immediately
from
Christ
,
by
his
institution
,
the
person
to
be
censured
is
designed
or
described
by
▪
Christ
,
a
notorious
or
obstinate
sinner
:
the
Church
passe
this
sentence
onely
Ministerially
,
and
yet
puts
forth
a
great
power
of
the
Lord
Jesus
Christ
,
in
applying
the
sentence
to
this
or
that
person
:
and
so
here
▪
and
therefore
it
is
strange
to
us
,
that
any
should
say
they
depute
this
Officer
neither
vertually
nor
formally
,
when
as
the
act
which
they
put
forth
,
(
which
is
the
outward
call
of
the
Officer
)
must
needs
come
from
a
power
formally
in
the
Church
to
doe
the
same
,
as
well
as
when
the
Church
or
Officers
censure
an
offender
,
&c.
Reply
.
The
consent
of
the
people
is
requisite
in
the
election
of
Pastors
and
Teachers
,
we
grant
,
the
direction
of
the
Elders
going
before
,
or
along
with
them
,
Acts
1.
Peter
declared
what
an
one
should
be
taken
,
&c.
Acts
6.
Deacons
were
chosen
by
the
consent
of
the
Church
,
&c.
but
in
this
election
the
people
did
first
choose
,
when
most
commonly
the
Apostles
instructed
the
people
,
and
went
before
them
in
the
electon
,
and
they
consented
.
Act.
14.
23.
The
Apostles
by
consent
choose
,
&c.
Answ.
This
restriction
of
the
peoples
power
to
an
after
consent
,
at
least
ordinarily
,
will
not
hold
:
if
the
evident
light
of
Acts
6.
could
not
be
denyed
,
and
the
other
places
were
more
obscure
,
why
should
not
that
place
with
its
light
cleare
the
rest
?
but
that
in
Act.
1.
is
as
evident
,
Peter
proves
the
need
of
such
a
choice
to
be
made
,
shews
it
must
bee
one
that
had
so
long
conversed
with
Christ
,
to
witnesse
such
things
,
and
further
hee
doth
not
lead
them
,
there
might
be
twenty
such
,
but
they
choose
two
,
as
a
preparative
act
to
Apostleship
,
Vers.
23.
and
who
were
they
,
but
such
as
they
speake
unto
,
viz.
the
Disciples
,
Vers.
15.
whom
he
cals
Men
and
Brethren
,
Vers.
16.
so
Act.
14.
23.
lifting
up
of
hands
is
the
signe
of
election
,
not
of
an
after
consent
.
Lastly
,
by
this
Doctrine
how
shall
the
Church
come
by
Officers
,
when
shee
hath
none
to
goe
before
her
in
choosing
for
her
?
must
shee
loose
her
right
,
or
take
whom
others
will
choose
for
her
,
and
impose
upon
her
?
Reply
.
In
the
primitive
times
,
after
the
Apostles
,
one
Church
might
elect
a
Pastor
for
another
,
&c.
Answ.
1
If
by
way
of
counsell
one
Church
shall
propound
and
advise
another
to
choose
such
,
(
leaving
them
free
to
take
or
refuse
)
this
is
lawfull
in
case
,
but
otherwise
it
is
a
plaine
usurpation
and
we
must
leave
Scripture
rules
and
patterns
to
justifie
it
.
2
Wee
grant
in
a
safe
sense
there
may
be
Communis
electio
,
whereby
a
fit
man
is
propounded
by
Churches
or
Ministers
to
be
chosen
by
another
people
,
and
thus
the
Philadelphians
might
elect
a
fit
Pastor
for
the
Church
at
Antioch
,
(
as
Ignatius
exhots
)
with
sundry
like
instances
in
the
first
times
after
the
Apostles
,
and
this
wee
deny
not
may
lawfully
bee
now
.
But
this
is
nothing
to
that
electio
singularis
,
whereby
a
people
choose
one
to
be
their
Minister
,
of
which
we
speake
,
for
it
is
evident
from
the
Testimony
of
Cyprian
oft
alledged
,
that
it
is
in
the
power
of
the
people
to
choose
worthy
Ministers
,
and
reject
the
unworthy
;
and
Ambrose
thinkes
that
he
is
worthily
thought
to
bee
elected
divino
judicio
,
whom
all
the
people
desire
▪
Ambros
.
lib.
10.
Ep.
82.
It
is
very
true
,
that
as
the
times
grew
worse
,
the
elections
were
oft
disturbed
,
sometimes
by
the
Clergy
choosing
without
the
people
,
(
of
which
Athanasius
complaines
)
sometimes
by
the
peoples
carrying
it
tumultuously
:
sometime
the
Emperors
interposing
.
But
this
and
like
corruptions
cannot
forfeit
the
liberty
of
the
Church
which
Christ
hath
given
it
,
and
therefore
hee
that
was
no
great
friend
to
the
peoples
liberties
,
yet
ingenuously
saith
that
although
the
people
is
Bellua
multorum
capitum
,
and
most
apt
to
be
tumultuous
,
yet
this
is
not
innated
to
a
beleeving
people
,
qui
non
minus
nunc
quam
olim
gravis
esset
in
electionibus
,
ac
publicae
utilitatis
studiosissima
,
Spalta
▪
de
Rep.
Eccles.
Lib.
3.
Cap.
3.
Reply
.
If
here
it
be
questioned
,
whether
your
election
of
the
people
be
essentiall
to
the
calling
of
a
Minister
,
wee
answer
,
First
,
A
thing
is
essentiall
two
wayes
,
either
as
absolutely
necessary
,
so
as
the
thing
can
have
no
existence
without
it
;
or
necessary
to
the
integrity
of
a
thing
,
so
that
it
is
maymed
without
it
.
Againe
the
people
be
either
few
in
number
,
and
simple
,
unable
to
judge
of
the
sufficiency
of
a
Minister
,
or
they
be
more
in
number
,
increased
in
wisedome
,
sound
in
faith
,
and
able
to
discerne
of
things
that
differ
.
In
the
first
sense
the
election
of
the
people
is
not
necessary
or
essentiall
,
in
the
second
,
his
calling
in
that
respect
is
maymed
.
Answ.
It
is
to
bee
noted
,
that
here
wee
dispute
of
the
outward
calling
of
Church-Officers
;
now
the
very
essence
of
any
outward
calling
,
doth
lye
in
the
right
and
power
of
them
that
elect
.
If
all
the
Countries
of
England
should
elect
or
call
a
Lord
Major
for
London
,
bee
they
never
so
many
and
wise
,
it
is
a
meere
nullity
,
and
why
?
Because
the
right
of
election
is
not
in
them
,
but
if
the
Citizens
in
whom
the
right
lyes
,
doe
elect
(
though
weakly
)
hee
hath
the
true
essence
of
the
call
:
if
others
electing
a
Major
the
City
will
receive
him
,
submit
to
him
,
and
so
give
their
consent
,
hee
may
bee
said
to
have
the
substance
of
that
call
,
though
not
an
orderly
and
lawfull
election
,
and
so
maymed
:
so
it
is
here
.
Secondly
,
if
in
our
election
of
the
people
(
being
the
Scripture
way
of
election
,
)
the
proper
right
and
power
bee
seated
by
Christ
in
the
Church
,
unto
whom
they
are
to
minister
,
then
it
must
needs
follow
,
that
the
very
essence
of
a
Ministers
call
stands
in
their
election
,
or
at
least
in
their
after
consent
and
subjection
to
his
Ministery
,
in
which
case
wee
grant
though
the
calling
be
maymed
,
yet
it
hath
the
substance
of
a
true
calling
.
But
if
the
people
will
not
receive
such
as
are
imposed
upon
them
,
hee
hath
no
call
at
all
,
but
usurpes
the
same
,
and
it
is
a
meer
nullity
.
And
therefore
it
concernes
Churches
the
more
to
consider
,
what
they
doe
in
receiving
and
submitting
to
such
unworthy
Ministers
,
as
are
oft
imposed
upon
them
;
but
if
the
right
and
power
of
electing
Ministers
bee
in
any
other
Persons
,
let
it
be
shewed
from
the
Scriptures
,
for
we
are
not
much
moved
in
such
cases
with
the
corrupt
customes
of
after-times
.
And
this
also
shewes
what
kinde
of
call
such
men
have
that
are
ordained
by
Prelates
at
large
without
any
election
at
all
,
if
they
be
Ministers
to
the
Catholike
Church
,
then
the
Catholike
Church
is
bound
to
receive
them
,
and
submit
to
their
Office
,
but
no
part
of
the
Catholike
Church
,
and
therefore
not
the
whole
is
bound
to
submit
to
them
,
and
therefore
indeed
they
have
no
office
nor
calling
as
Pastors
or
Teachers
,
except
it
can
be
proved
they
be
Evangelists
,
Apostles
or
Prophets
.
Reply
.
If
the
people
be
few
and
simple
,
they
stand
in
more
need
of
guidance
from
their
owne
Elders
and
other
Churches
;
If
many
and
full
of
wisdome
,
their
liberty
to
choose
is
the
greater
,
and
the
greater
wrong
to
bee
deprived
of
it
.
The
practise
of
the
Apostles
and
Primitive
Churches
shew
this
for
many
ages
,
sometime
men
were
propounded
to
the
Church
to
be
chosen
,
sometimes
the
chiefe
left
wholly
to
them
.
Answ.
1
What
is
all
this
to
the
purpose
,
what
light
or
derection
a
Church
need
to
receive
?
the
essence
of
a
Ministers
call
lyes
not
in
the
propounding
or
advising
of
any
to
elect
him
,
but
in
the
Election
of
such
as
have
the
true
right
so
to
doe
,
which
is
still
in
the
Church
,
though
few
and
weake
,
if
a
true
Church
,
and
yet
you
produce
not
one
Scripture
example
of
any
Officer
propounded
by
the
Apostles
,
or
Elders
to
the
Church
to
be
chosen
by
them
,
much
lesse
limiting
the
Church
to
consent
thereto
,
if
they
had
nothing
against
him
.
Reply
.
In
reason
this
is
evident
,
for
the
Childs
consent
is
required
in
marriage
,
but
the
more
able
he
is
to
choose
for
himselfe
,
the
more
liberty
may
Parents
grant
,
the
lesse
able
the
more
watchfull
must
they
be
.
This
similitude
utterly
faileth
in
two
essentiall
things
,
that
concerne
the
case
for
which
it
is
applyed
.
1.
Because
a
childe
is
under
the
authority
of
the
parents
,
whose
right
is
such
that
a
Childe
cannot
lawfully
choose
without
them
.
But
there
is
no
Church
or
others
have
such
a
right
and
authority
over
any
Church
in
their
choice
of
Officers
.
2.
Whatsoever
the
power
of
parents
bee
,
yet
the
essence
of
the
marriage
consists
in
the
mutuall
consent
and
promise
of
the
children
that
marry
,
and
so
here
the
essence
of
a
Ministers
call
must
lye
in
the
election
of
the
Church
and
acceptance
of
the
Minister
which
is
not
avoided
but
by
the
similitude
confirmed
.
Reply
.
It
is
a
duty
of
neighbour
Churches
to
lend
their
helpe
to
their
brethren
in
election
of
their
Ministers
,
when
the
Scripture
willeth
us
to
exhort
one
another
or
admon●sh
one
another
,
it
is
not
onely
a
command
to
every
singular
person
towards
his
fellow
,
but
also
to
any
whole
company
.
Answ.
Wee
grant
all
this
,
and
that
it
is
the
duty
of
a
Church
,
bee
it
weake
or
strong
,
to
take
all
needfull
counsell
,
advise
or
exhortations
and
admonitions
in
so
weighty
a
worke
.
But
if
Churches
or
others
shall
impose
upon
any
Church
any
Officer
without
their
choice
,
this
is
no
brotherly
helpe
,
but
unjust
usurpation
.
And
if
you
understand
Junius
so
,
as
that
Charitatis
jure
&
Communione
sanctorum
,
one
Church
have
power
to
choose
for
another
,
other
wayes
,
then
by
advising
them
to
elect
such
an
one
for
themselves
,
wee
see
no
reason
for
that
,
nor
doe
wee
thinke
it
is
his
meaning
:
neither
doth
Paul
,
Rom.
12.
12.
lay
any
foundation
of
such
usurpations
,
but
onely
of
mutuall
brotherly
helpfulnesse
by
counsell
,
&c.
and
the
contrary
is
not
Policy
,
but
some
degree
of
tyranny
.
Reply
.
It
is
a
blemish
in
the
call
of
a
Minister
,
if
either
the
people
be
not
fit
to
choose
,
or
being
fit
they
he
shut
out
from
the
choice
,
but
this
maime
doth
not
make
a
nullity
in
his
calling
.
Answ.
If
a
people
or
Church
bee
never
so
weake
,
which
is
here
called
unfitnesse
,
yet
Christ
being
amongst
them
,
and
they
making
an
orderly
and
good
choice
,
there
can
be
no
blemish
in
the
call
seeing
the
right
is
them
,
and
such
a
free
choice
will
better
stablish
the
conscience
of
any
godly
Minister
in
his
call
,
then
if
a
Synod
of
the
ablest
Ministers
should
impose
him
without
their
free
choice
,
except
it
can
bee
proved
that
the
right
of
election
is
in
the
Synod
,
which
we
thinke
will
not
bee
done
.
But
bee
they
able
or
weake
,
if
the
people
be
shut
out
,
it
must
needs
make
a
great
maim
in
his
call
,
and
if
they
doe
not
consent
nor
submit
to
such
a
one
called
by
others
,
it
will
make
it
a
nullity
,
as
was
shewed
before
.
What
authority
hath
hee
to
Minister
to
any
Church
,
if
they
will
refuse
him
?
or
who
shall
censure
them
for
refusing
,
by
any
rule
of
Christ
?
Reply
.
The
saving
truth
of
God
and
a
lawfull
Ministery
are
both
essentiall
to
a
true
Church
.
Answ.
Answ.
What
then
becomes
of
the
Church
when
the
Minister
is
dead
?
Reply
.
The
true
Church
hath
continued
by
the
blessing
of
God
where
the
election
of
Ministers
hath
beene
given
away
by
the
people
or
taken
from
them
.
Answ.
True
;
but
it
hath
been
continued
by
the
after
consent
,
and
subjection
of
the
people
to
their
Ministers
chosen
by
others
,
else
they
must
needs
have
broken
a
pieces
and
dissolved
the
Church
,
or
taken
upon
them
to
choose
others
to
themselves
,
which
still
shewes
that
the
essence
of
the
call
is
in
the
people
.
What
is
said
of
the
disorders
of
Ancient
Churches
in
elections
,
we
passe
over
as
nothing
to
this
purpose
.
That
the
Ministery
might
bee
lawfull
for
substance
,
where
there
were
many
defects
in
the
manner
of
the
call
we
grant
,
the
Church
at
length
consenting
to
submit
thereto
,
in
whom
the
true
right
is
placed
by
Christ
:
and
therefore
we
passe
over
what
followes
to
that
purpose
,
though
wee
might
object
against
some
passages
in
the
discourse
.
Reply
.
As
for
the
second
branch
of
your
answer
we
know
not
well
your
meaning
;
if
this
be
your
minde
,
that
a
Minister
lawfully
called
and
set
over
the
Congregation
,
is
to
bee
esteemed
a
Minister
in
the
usuall
Church
,
as
the
particular
Church
hath
unity
with
,
and
is
part
of
the
universall
or
Catholique
,
and
as
a
party
baptized
is
not
baptized
into
that
Congregation
onely
,
but
into
all
Churches
,
and
that
the
Ministery
is
one
,
cujus
a
singulis
in
solidum
pars
tenetur
,
as
Cyprian
speaketh
,
and
therefore
though
the
Minister
be
unjustly
cast
eff
by
one
Congregation
,
yet
hee
is
not
to
be
esteemed
as
no
Minister
,
wee
freely
consent
▪
But
if
your
meaning
bee
,
that
hee
is
onely
by
right
a
Minister
of
that
particular
Congregation
,
because
unjustly
deposed
,
as
formerly
in
the
execution
of
his
Office
,
●ee
was
a
Minister
to
them
onely
,
and
to
no
other
society
whatsoever
,
or
in
what
respect
soever
▪
your
opinion
is
contrary
to
the
opinion
of
the
universall
,
and
tends
to
destroy
the
unity
of
the
Church
,
and
that
Communion
which
the
Churches
of
God
ought
to
have
one
with
another
.
Answ.
First
,
If
our
meaning
be
doubtfull
,
seeing
these
expressions
doe
not
well
suite
our
notion
,
nor
fully
enter
into
our
understanding
,
we
shall
give
the
meaning
of
our
answer
distinctly
,
and
then
consider
what
is
here
said
.
First
,
there
is
a
difference
betweene
the
unjust
leaving
or
casting
off
a
Minister
,
without
all
orderly
proceedings
against
him
,
and
the
unjust
deposing
him
in
an
orderly
way
of
Church
censure
:
if
the
question
be
taken
in
the
first
sense
,
he
remaines
every
way
and
in
every
respect
by
right
a
Minister
as
hee
was
before
,
except
he
reject
them
,
and
so
dissolve
the
relation
that
was
between
them
.
But
if
the
question
speak
of
an
orderly
censure
of
deposition
unjustly
,
then
we
judge
of
that
case
as
we
would
do
in
any
other
,
censure
of
a
member
by
excommunication
,
&
therefore
we
say
,
he
is
stil
a
Minister
,
in
foro
interno
before
Christ
,
for
clavis
errans
non
ligat
.
Secondly
,
in
respect
of
that
Church
he
hath
stil
right
truly
to
minister
to
them
,
and
is
their
Minister
though
unjustly
hindered
in
the
execution
of
his
Ministery
,
as
a
member
unjustly
censured
hath
a
true
right
to
the
Ordinances
,
and
membership
,
though
unjustly
hindred
from
the
same
,
though
in
foro
externo
,
we
grant
to
them
or
in
their
account
he
is
no
Minister
,
as
a
person
excommunicated
is
to
them
no
member
.
Thirdly
,
in
respect
of
other
Churches
,
if
it
doth
appeare
unto
them
that
hee
is
unjustly
deposed
,
they
may
and
ought
to
esteeme
him
still
,
and
receive
him
and
have
communion
with
him
,
as
a
true
Minister
of
Jesus
Christ
,
in
the
Church
he
doth
belong
to
,
as
they
may
do
with
a
member
unjustly
cast
out
,
but
til
that
appeare
unto
them
,
they
cannot
so
esteem
and
honor
him
,
(
being
orderly
deposed
but
must
at
least
suspend
their
judgment
til
the
case
be
cleared
.
Fourthly
we
answer
clearely
and
plainely
to
the
chiefe
scope
of
the
question
,
If
a
Minister
bee
unjustly
deposed
or
forsaken
by
his
particular
Church
,
and
he
also
withall
renounce
and
forsake
them
,
so
farre
as
all
Office
and
relation
betweene
them
cease
,
then
is
hee
no
longer
an
Officer
or
Pastour
in
any
Church
of
God
,
whatsoever
you
will
call
it
.
And
the
Reason
is
,
because
a
Ministers
office
in
the
Church
i●
no
indelible
Character
,
but
consists
in
his
relation
to
the
flocke
:
and
if
a
Minister
once
ordained
,
his
relation
ceasing
,
his
Office
of
a
Minister
,
Steward
of
the
mysteries
of
God
shall
still
remaine
;
why
should
not
a
ruling
Elder
or
Deacon
remaine
an
Elder
or
Deacon
in
the
Church
as
well
?
all
are
Officers
Ordained
of
Christ
alike
given
to
his
Church
,
Officers
chosen
and
Ordained
by
laying
on
of
hands
alike
,
but
wee
suppose
you
will
not
say
a
Deacon
in
such
a
case
should
remaine
a
Deacon
in
the
Catholique
Church
,
therefore
not
a
Minister
.
Secondly
,
wee
shall
now
consider
what
is
here
said
,
and
first
this
language
of
a
Minister
in
the
usuall
Church
as
a
particular
Church
hath
union
with
and
is
a
part
of
the
universall
,
it
is
an
unusuall
expression
to
us
,
and
to
the
Scripture
phrase
,
and
therefore
beare
with
us
if
wee
fall
short
of
your
meaning
;
the
usuall
Church
in
England
hath
beene
either
the
Arch-Deacons
Church
in
the
Deanaries
,
or
Diocesan
in
the
Bishoprick
,
or
Provinciall
or
Nationall
,
but
wee
hope
that
there
is
no
such
intended
here
,
yet
to
all
this
and
the
jurisdiction
thereof
particular
Churches
have
been
subject
as
parts
there
.
But
if
by
usuall
Church
you
meane
a
Classical
,
Provinciall
or
Nationall
Church
,
wee
must
intreat
better
grounds
for
any
of
these
,
and
therefore
wee
must
confesse
our
minde
and
meaning
is
not
so
,
that
wee
looke
at
a
Minister
of
a
particular
Church
in
any
such
relation
to
the
usuall
and
intermediate
Church
betweene
it
and
the
Catholique
.
The
second
sense
therefore
we
owne
and
acknowledge
as
before
.
But
whether
this
be
contrary
to
the
judgement
and
practise
of
the
universall
Church
,
wee
know
not
;
because
it
is
hard
for
us
know
what
the
universall
Church
judgeth
,
except
we
could
heare
it
speake
or
see
its
practise
;
if
the
onely
head
Prophet
and
Shepherd
of
the
Church
Jesus
Christ
be
fit
to
declare
her
judgement
,
we
will
be
tryed
thereby
,
who
we
know
hath
s●t
Elders
in
every
particular
Church
,
Act.
14.
23.
to
watch
over
their
particular
flock
,
Act.
20.
28.
but
not
over
any
other
Church
that
wee
can
finde
.
Neither
doth
this
destroy
the
unity
or
Communion
of
the
Catholique
Church
,
nor
of
particular
Churches
one
with
another
as
is
said
,
for
Churches
may
enjoy
brotherly
Communion
one
with
another
,
without
such
stated
formes
,
under
the
power
and
authority
of
one
another
,
as
hath
been
shewed
before
.
Reply
.
For
if
he
be
not
a
Minister
to
other
Churches
,
then
are
not
the
Churches
of
God
one
,
nor
the
Communion
which
they
have
together
on
▪
n●r
the
Ministers
one
,
nor
the
●●●cke
which
they
feed
one
.
Answ.
In
what
sense
is
intended
to
have
the
Ministers
one
,
and
flocke
one
,
we
doe
not
see
.
If
you
meane
one
by
one
visible
Government
over
the
Catholique
Church
,
wherein
there
is
a
subordination
of
Churches
and
Ministers
,
you
must
at
last
rise
to
Oecomenicall
Pastor
,
or
Councell
,
that
must
be
the
supreme
,
which
can
scarce
ever
be
had
.
If
you
meane
an
unity
by
brotherly
Communion
in
offices
of
love
and
mutuall
helpefulnesse
of
Churches
and
Ministers
,
without
usurpation
,
such
an
unity
and
Community
is
not
destroyed
,
and
the
argument
doth
not
follow
▪
Cannot
many
distinct
societies
ot
Townes
or
Corporations
make
up
one
County
,
except
the
Major
or
Constable
in
one
Towne
be
a
Major
or
Constable
in
others
also
?
By
this
Reason
the
Deacon
of
one
Church
is
the
Deacon
of
all
,
or
else
the
unity
is
destroyed
.
Reply
.
If
the
Pastor
derive
all
his
authority
from
the
Church
,
when
the
Church
hath
set
him
aside
,
what
right
hath
he
to
administer
among
that
people
?
Answ.
True
,
but
we
say
he
derives
all
his
authority
from
Christ
,
by
the
Church
indeed
,
applying
that
office
to
him
,
to
which
the
authority
is
annexed
by
the
institution
of
Christ
,
hence
being
the
Minister
of
Christ
unto
them
,
if
they
without
Christ
depose
him
,
they
hinder
the
exercise
of
his
Office
,
but
his
right
remaines
.
Reply
.
As
they
give
right
to
an
unworthy
man
to
minister
amongst
them
,
if
they
cal
him
unjustly
,
so
they
take
right
from
the
worthy
,
if
they
unjustly
depose
him
.
Answ.
We
grant
there
is
a
parity
in
foro
externo
,
but
as
in
the
call
,
his
outward
cal
consists
in
the
election
of
the
calling
,
and
the
acceptation
of
the
called
,
to
compleat
his
power
of
administration
.
Now
this
by
Christ
in
his
Church
may
be
destroyed
in
a
just
censure
without
his
consent
,
but
cannot
unjustly
be
wrung
from
him
without
his
consent
,
&
therefore
he
may
hold
his
right
,
till
either
hee
be
justly
deposed
or
willingly
relinquish
the
same
upon
their
injurious
interruption
of
the
use
of
his
right
.
Reply
.
And
whereas
you
say
the
Minister
is
for
the
Ministery
,
and
the
Office
for
the
execution
,
and
so
the
Pastor
and
the
flocke
are
relatives
,
and
therefore
,
if
their
election
gave
him
authority
among
them
to
feed
,
their
casting
him
off
hath
stripped
him
of
the
same
power
they
gave
him
.
A●su
.
Wee
grant
it
is
so
,
yet
the
execution
may
bee
unjustly
hindred
,
though
the
right
and
Office
remaine
:
But
we
may
well
retort
this
argument
upon
the
Minister
of
the
usuall
or
Catholicke
Church
.
Thus
if
the
Minister
bee
for
the
Ministery
,
and
the
Office
for
the
execution
,
and
so
the
Pastor
and
flock
be
relatives
,
then
hee
that
may
justly
for
ever
be
hindred
of
all
execution
of
the
Ministery
and
hath
no
power
to
censure
his
flock
,
or
cannot
so
much
as
justly
approve
and
admonish
them
for
the
same
,
surely
hee
hath
a
poore
Office
and
Ministery
,
but
such
a
Minister
that
hath
no
particular
Congregation
,
that
is
his
flock
under
his
charge
,
may
justly
be
excluded
out
of
all
Churches
,
and
cannot
censure
or
reprove
his
Catholique
or
usuall
Church
for
the
same
,
therefore
he
is
indeed
no
Minister
,
and
and
hath
no
Office
in
the
Church
of
God
.
CHAP.
XVII
.
Position
8.
THat
one
Minister
cannot
performe
any
Ministeriall
act
in
another
Congregation
.
Reply
.
The
Preaching
of
the
Word
and
publique
Prayer
in
the
Congregation
,
meet
together
solemnely
to
worship
God
,
&c.
are
properly
Ministeriall
,
&c.
Answ.
Concerning
our
true
sense
and
meaning
in
our
answer
to
this
Position
wee
have
spoken
in
the
second
consideration
of
the
second
and
third
Positions
,
to
which
wee
referre
the
Reader
,
onely
here
wee
must
ingenuously
confesse
that
our
expression
,
That
a
Minister
exercising
in
another
Church
,
doth
it
not
by
vertue
of
any
calling
,
but
onely
by
his
gifts
,
is
not
so
cleare
,
but
may
occasion
stumbling
,
yet
the
the
next
words
following
doe
fully
expresse
our
mindes
,
viz.
that
he
doth
not
put
forth
such
a
Ministeriall
act
of
authority
and
power
in
dispensing
of
Gods
Ordinances
,
as
a
Minister
doth
performe
to
that
Church
,
whereunto
hee
is
called
to
be
a
Minister
,
for
so
hee
doth
not
performe
any
Ministeriall
act
with
that
authority
:
hee
doth
to
his
owne
which
further
cleares
up
our
expression
in
the
second
consideration
,
viz.
that
he
is
a
Pastor
of
none
but
his
proper
flocke
,
although
some
acts
of
his
Office
may
extend
beyond
his
owne
flocke
,
as
we
have
shewed
before
;
and
therefore
in
this
sense
we
may
still
conclude
,
that
if
the
question
be
put
to
any
Minister
(
so
exercising
in
another
church
)
which
was
once
put
to
our
Saviour
,
By
what
authority
dost
thou
these
things
?
let
him
study
how
to
give
an
answer
,
for
wee
have
not
yet
learned
it
from
this
Reply
.
We
confesse
there
are
some
godly
learned
servants
of
Christ
,
who
possibly
may
bee
otherwise
minded
,
and
thinke
that
a
Minister
preaching
in
another
Congregation
,
doth
it
onely
as
a
gifted
man
;
as
the
Refuter
of
Doctor
Downam
(
with
others
in
former
times
of
Reformation
)
beleeved
also
.
But
we
desire
that
if
any
difference
appeare
herein
,
it
may
bee
no
prejudice
to
the
same
cause
for
substance
wee
maintaine
,
if
by
sundry
lines
wee
all
meet
at
last
in
the
same
point
.
FINIS
.
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