The female duel, or The ladies looking glass. Representing a Scripture combate about business of religion, fairly carried on, between a Roman Catholick lady, and the wife of a dignified person in the Church of England. Together with their joynt answer to an Anabaptists paper sent in defiance of them both: entitled the Dipper drowned. / Now published by Tho. Toll Gent. Toll, Thomas. This text is an enriched version of the TCP digital transcription A94720 of text xxx in the English Short Title Catalog (Thomason E1813_2). Textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. The text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with MorphAdorner. The annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). Textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. This text has not been fully proofread Approx. 534 KB of XML-encoded text transcribed from 165 1-bit group-IV TIFF page images. EarlyPrint Project Evanston,IL, Notre Dame, IN, St. Louis, MO 2018 A94720 Wing T1776A Thomason E1813_2 ESTC R209780 99868642 99868642 170406 2240950333

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 Early English books online. (EEBO-TCP ; phase 2, no. A94720) Transcribed from: (Early English Books Online ; image set 170406) Images scanned from microfilm: (Thomason Tracts ; 226:E1813[2]) The female duel, or The ladies looking glass. Representing a Scripture combate about business of religion, fairly carried on, between a Roman Catholick lady, and the wife of a dignified person in the Church of England. Together with their joynt answer to an Anabaptists paper sent in defiance of them both: entitled the Dipper drowned. / Now published by Tho. Toll Gent. Toll, Thomas. [16], 189, 200-229, 300-319, [1] 141-204, 214-248 p. Printed by H. Bell, and P. Lillicrap., London, : 1661. "The dipper drowned" has separate dated title page; pagination and register are continuous. Text continuous despite pagination. One of three issues of this edition. Annotation on Thomason copy: "Marsh.". Reproduction of the original in the British Library. eng Church of England -- Early works to 1800. Catholic Church -- England -- Early works to 1800. Anabaptists -- Controversial literature -- Early works to 1800. eebo The female duel, or The ladies looking glass.: Representing a Scripture combate about business of religion, fairly carried on, between a Roman Cathol Toll, Thomas. 1661 328 97598 103 0 0 0 0 0 10.55 C The rate of 10.55 defects per 10,000 words puts this text in the C category of texts with between 10 and 35 defects per 10,000 words. 2011-11 Assigned for keying and markup 2011-11 Keyed and coded from ProQuest page images 2012-02 Sampled and proofread 2012-02 Text and markup reviewed and edited 2012-05 Batch review (QC) and XML conversion

THE FEMALE DUEL , OR The Ladies Lookingglass REPRESENTING A Scripture Combate about business of Religion , fairly carried on , between a Roman Catholick Lady , and the wife of a Dignified person in the Church of England . TOGETHER With their joynt answer to an Anabaptists Paper sent in defiance of them both : Entitled the Dipper Drowned . New Published by THO. TOLL Gent.

Matth. 11.25 .

God hath revealed these things unto babes and sucklings , and concealed them from the wise , &c.

London , Printed by H. Bell , and P. Lillicrap . 1661.

TO THE ROYAL HIGHNESSE Of the most Peerless Pair of PRINCESSES Daughters of Great Britany , France ▪ and Ireland .

HAd I not fully known ( most incomparable Princesses ) by a long experience in your most Royal Family , that Clemency ; Mercy and Pardon , were your apparent Birth-rights , by Lineal Traduction from your great Progenitors , especially from that glorious Martyr for his people , your most Royal Father of eternal memory , and that incomparable Confessor your blessed Mother , ( whose sufferings for her King and Conscience deserve to be written with a Pen of Adamant , in the Temple of Eternity ) I had not dared to address these poor home-spun Papers , wrought by true spinsters hands , to your most Princely view , much less present them as a New-years-gift , or make them to appear in the world , under so great a Patronage . Now the greatest aggravations ( most Seraphical Sisters ) that can be alledged against me , are : First , that I should presume to present any thing , that carries with it the scratching of womens controversies , ( for so most of their disputes do usually determine ) or that does so much as sound like a jar , to such serene Pacifick spirits , as your highborne souls are known to be , whose very looks are capable to quiet the most tempestuous and troubled seas , and words to calm the rage of Tygers , and the fury of the most tumultuous and stormy breasted Monsters of Mankind , in whose bosome the very Unicorn would be ambitious to fall asleep , and Lions themselves rejoyce to lick your Princely feet . Nay , that I should dare to offer so much as the sound of a Duel to two such sublime Personages , and that are so much one in affection , though different it may be in some perswasion ; and are by that great example of your most serene Mother the Grand Mistreses of Peace , Piety , Modesty and Humility to all Womankind . But indeed my fault is not so grievous in this neither , as at first blush it may appear to be , for this Paper Duel is without a disturbance . This Scripture Combate without a quarrell , and this fair dispute is almost without a difference , I am sure without an uncivil word , and though it was managed ( as can be proved ) only by women , yet it may serve to direct into the true mode , and method of arguing , the most dextrous Doctors , and Disputants in the world , and teach them to improve their arguing unto edification . But the greatest aggravation ( most excellent Ladies ) that ca●● rise in judgement against me , is yet behind , ( as Timourus Penitents use to have their most crying sins to bring up the Rear ) which is that I should presume to present any actions of inferiour Persons , as Looking-glasses to their Princes , especially to such as you ( most incomparable Pair ) are known to be ; your selves being the matchless Mirrours of all perfection . Mirrours said I ? nay , most pure and Christialine Fountains that shew not only to all the Ladies in the world , their deformed spots , stains and blemishes , but likewise how to wash them off , and wherewithall to clear themselves from them : which truth has been most plainly proved and confirmed to us , by that strange and almost miraculous reformation of our Womens manners , since the splendor of your most Princely vertues , has appeared amongst them , for which I am sure both Sexes do owe most immortal obligations , to your Royal Highneses , as for a new Conversion of the Nation . Nay , give me leave to affirm , that the blessings we have received in order to that , ought to be put into the Balance with any of those other great ones , that ●is Sacred Majesty has been so graciously pleased , to power down upon us in his comming to us , and redemption of us from a life of sin and slavery . For truely the Mankind here were not depraved into Sedition , Treason , Rebellion and Irreligion , turning all faith into faction , making truth it self to lye , all Loyally to be Treason , Religion to be Rebellion , and pulling down of Churches , the edification of Gods house , by any instigation so great , as that they received from their wicked women . The Seas were less furious , a Thunder-clap less dread full , the gall of Dragons and poyson that swelleth up the necks of Asps , was much more tolerable , than their malice . Nor were they only so guilty in making of their Husbands become Traytors to their God , King and Countrey , but they did study likewise to appear as unnatural Traytors to the honour of their whole Sex in England ( which was as famous as St. Paul magnifies the faith of the Romanes to be spoken of over all the world ) flying out into such prodigious pieces of impiety and debaucht lewdness , that Heathens themselves have abhorred , and very Turks trembled at . From all these horrid infamies , and national scandalls , your very presence here has ransomed our Countrey ; and by your all healing examples set a new fair , and reformed face upon all our Woman-kind . The one being the highest Patroness of all conjugal and vidual Honor , and the other the most pure pattern of all Virginal sweetnesse and chastity , and both appear to be no lesse , than two Intelligences that have left the Heavenly Orbes , and vouchsafed your selves to be inchased in those beautifull bodies for the benefit , and glory of your Sex . To whom therefore could this Ladies Looking-glass be more properly presented , than to your Royal Highnesses , to whom all that is good in the whole Sex amongst us , must be ever attributed , as Rayes only reflected from your perfections . This is my humble Plea , most incomparable Princesses , according to which joyned with my clear acknowledgement , and most dutiful Confession I doubt not , but your Princely goodness will proceed to absolution , and dispense a pardon to

Most Peerless Princesses , Your Royal Highnesses most devoted humble Vassal , and loyal Servant , of your Royal Family THO. TOLL .
THE PRINTER TO THE READER .

YOu may please to take notice , that this Epistle Dedicatory , was past to the Press , before the loss which the whole English Nation sustained in the death of that most incomparable Princess , Mary princess Dowager of Orange , and as the Publisher left it , so I am oblieged to prosent it .

The Publishers PREFACE To the Gentlemen , Readers of the FEMALE DVEL .

I Have already understood a grand exception against me , for charging so much devotion and divinity , upon the sex of women who are the Actors in this Scene , and the Authours of this discourse , it is true upon the first perusual of these papers , I my self did little expect to finde such Masculine vigour in them : and truly , I dare boldly affirm , that the sum of all the controversies , that our English Schools have been wrangling , and the Pulpits railing about this hundred years , is here perfectly represented on both sides ; nor is it to be wondred at , that women should arive to such a perfection in divinity in this age , wherein all learning is almost become prostitute , when above a thousand years ago , we finde one of the curiousest peices of divinity , written by Athenais , who seemed to be that , which the Poets feigned of Pallas ; she was bred in Paganisme , better acquainted with the Theogony of Hesiod , than the genealogy of Jesus Christ ; better skil'd in Homers Illiads , then the books of the Gospel , and better in the Apothegmes of Pythagoras , then the commandments af God ; but she became afterwards so skilful in the Christian Law , that she wrote in Homerick verses , the principal Acts of Jesus Christ , and even as the blessed Magdalen with the same hair , wherewith she had weaved nets for wanton love , did afterwards turn into a Towel , to wipe the feet of our Saviour , so she consecrated all the Graces of her wit and learning , which she had before misimployed in vanities , to the Trophy of Jesus . Then as to the devotion of that sex , I conceive it less questionable , when women are right set , none can go beyond them for that . The Church hath always given to them , the title of the devout sex , Their blessing is in the dew of Heaven : they resemble Bees which are born in hony : or rather those birds of the fortunate Islands , that breath no air but perfumes , and are onely nourisht with incense : they grow wholly Angelical insomuch as forgetting their sex , and all their natural imperfections , they furnish themselves with the most perfect Ideas of divinity , and scarce retain any thing in them , common with matter . We find likewise , that great priviledges and prerogatives are given to them by our Saviour , for as the chast womb of a woman , served him for a lodging , at his first entrance into the world , so when he was to issue out of it , amongst so many horrors , and terrible images of death , when stones were rent in sunder for grief under his feet , and heaven it self distended with sorrow , over his head , women also were found near to the Cross , as witnesses of his last words , and survivers of his bloud ; nay , they were the first likewise , that he would do the honour to appear to after his resurrection . Now I must confess , that the prejudicators of this piece and all the devotion and divinity of that sex , carry with them a great deal of reason too , for there is a sort of fisking Gossips , who imagine devotion to he nothing but an ordinary practise of motions , and gestures , such as little puppets would make , if annimated with a quantity of Quicksilver , whilest the true virtues of devotion , we know according to S. Thomas , is nothing else but a prompt will to the service of God . others there are of them , whose devotion is altogether silken , and very fine forsooth in all things , so coy and curious they will be in the choice of persons , that Sacraments themselves are good for nothing , if they he not tyed to such and such hands , where vanity seeks its interests , nay forsooth their dovotion is such , that they will plant their prettie petite pride upon the very hair cloth of Penance , and if God would chastise such creatures to their liking , he must be forced , to tye up his rods with silk , or else they will never receive correction from his hands . Though they rise not till noon , yet as if they feared the vapours of the serain , they must be armed before they come out of their beds , with restoratives from the Kitchin , to keep their colours more fresh . Then they will set themselves down to be cloathed , with their Lookingglasses before them , as if their fingers were too good to touch their own clothes , and yet will be drest up like Idols , and so adored too by their servants , who are to stand about them , admiring of their beauty , which they have more ado too to preserve , then the Vestals of Rome , had to maintain the sacred fire , one presents their Ladyships , with white , another with red : this with some Serous , that with some Fucus , another attends the Looking-glass to hold it , or remove it at their Ladyships pleasure , whilest another stands behind to he the tell-clock , but dares not tell their Ladyships , that the hour of the Curch is ready to be past , whilst their Ladyships are fastening on their Pennons , Necklaces , or Bracelets , yet must the Canons of the Church be as easily broken , as a glass , to obey the humors of these women , and the celebration begin , when it is to be doubted , whether the Sun begin not then , to bend towards its setting : prayers in the Church must be past over with making of some sowre faces , and looking scornfully with a good grace , with some slight ceremonies of devotion it may be , which go no further neither then the outward parts ; There it is , where resolutions are made of entertainments of time , to be chosen for the next day : then follow visits , gaddings , coachings , dancings , &c. besides what passeth behind the Curtain ; their husbands in the mean time , are very uncivil , as they say , if they give them not permission to do any thing : and as it is said of the Moon , that she never agrees in qualities with the Sun , but when she hath ecclipsed him : so they find no concord in marriage , but in the diminution of their husbands authority . These are the Lady-birds that will make their husbands sell a large patrimony , to buy them a little Cabinet , lay out thousands of pounds upon a rope of Pearl , to wear about those necks that do better deserve a halter , nay their very ears , which they take a pride to shew little and slender , yet they must have whole Lordships hanging upon them . A man would say , to see how they pamper their bodies , that they were discended from heaven , and that thither they intended to return , without passing through the sepulchre , so they deifie their flesh , and to fatten and gild a dunghill covered with snow , they sport with the blood and sweat of men , what a sight it is , to see these Ladies groan as at a torture , under the weight and straightness of their garments , and yet for all this , will court and adore their own punishments . He that will take the pains to examine well the furniture of them , will think that they resemble those birds , that have no body almost under a great deal of feathers , then their apparrel is made rather to sell their bodies , then to cover them . I know not for my part , what may be reserved for the eyes of their husbands , when through all the streets and markets , the secret parts of their wives bodies are exposed as open , as if they were ready to be delivered over to the best bidders . Then the cloaths they wear , are so extravagant , in their head dressings , flying elbows , great gorgets , and farthinggals , that the Church dores must be made wider to receive them . These are the devotes of this age , that spend a fourth part , of their life , in dressing and besmearing themselves , to make themselves gross in one part and little in a nother , to raise terrets on their heads , and shackles on their hands and heels , to be as solicitous about adress , as if they had a Venetian Common-wealth to manage . Then they are so imperious and proud withall , that they must be no more offended , than those Stars , which are thought to send tempests , upon such as have not humbly saluted them . So many hundred Communions and exhortations have not taken off , one hair of their vanities : they will eat the immortal Lamb , once or twice a week it may be , and yet daily upon all occasions they will become Lionesses , in their houses . They will lay the holy Eucharist on their tongues , as the seat of the spouse , and yet will not bridle or restrain them from one evil word , and will speak more slanders in one dinner time , then they eat morsels . This was the reason sure , that Solomon so divinely assures us , Prov. 19. domus & divitiae dantur a parentibus , a domino autem uxor prudens , houses and riches come from Parents , but a wise and virtuous wife from the hand of God : and such doubtless as Solomon speaks of , were our divine Duelists here , as for the Doctors wife here , she was not after the rate of other Parsons wives , who must always be the best women in the parish , and take place of their Landlords and Patrons wives , if they be not Ladies forsooth , and wear better cloths two then they ; no her husband was not of the common rate of Churchmen neither , who take a pleasure to employ the patrimony of Jesus , the sweat and blood of the faithful , in good cheer , excess and play , and suffer their Churches to fall to decay , the Altars to become naked , the windows shivered to pieces , the walls to weep , and Spiders there to spin their webs , Rats to run up and down , and the poor of their parish famish , whilest I know not what little wives , or wenches , drag silk at their heels , at the charge of the Crucifix . Nor was our Roman Catholick Lady here , of a much different make , being a true widdow indeed , and wholly taken up with hospitalities and charities , notwithstanding she was always under a most severe persecution here , for her conscience . Vinegar is said to be used for precious stones , which have their fire frozen over , and their luster ecclipsed , so she was to have a little touch of acerbity to enlighten her virtues : she was indeed like a Pearl that comes from the salt sea , and beheld her self involved almost from her birth , in great perplexities and horrible confusions of the age , from whence she alwaies arose with so much luster , as she made still her adversities , to be steps to the Temple of glory . Sports and feasts were punishments to her , she was seldome found in the company of men , unless it were some beggers , whose miseries she relieved , and persons assisted in sickness and in health . Her whole heart went towards God , her feet to the divine service , her hands to alms , her eyes to reading books of devotion , her arms to the exercise of huswifry , and works of her sex , and her whole body to the sacrifices , and victims of her soul . Thus because I was obliged not to publish our Duelists names , I have been bold to give you an imperfect character of some of their qualities , which I hope will discharge you of a prejudice against their following discourses ; and obtain at least a pardon from them , if not acceptance from you , which I should most humbly beg likewise , that your candour would please to bestow , upon the Publisher .

Your most humble Servant THO. TOLL .
THE FEMALE DUEL , Or the Ladies LOOKINGLASS Representing a Scripture combate , about business of Religion .

THe occasion of this feminine encounter , is related thus ; Mirs . N. wife to a Dr. of Divinity , and a dignified person in the Church of England , ( a woman highly honored by all her neighbours , for her Religion , virtue , and discretion ) came one day , to visit my Lady M. of the same Parish , though of another perswasion , yet equally esteem'd , for her great piety and prudence , a Person wholly made up of charity and good neightbourhood , and was truly that widdow indeed which S. Paul would have : Now after the common complements of such visits , were past between the Doctors wife was pleased to assault her Ladyship with these , or the like words .

Mrs. N.

Madame , it would prove I fear , but a pitiful piece of flattery , I me sure impertinency , to tell your Ladyship how much you are beloved , and honour'd by all your neighbours , for those great charities , and hospitalities , that your goodness is pleased here daily to dispence amongst us , for your Ladyship cannot but know it your self . But one thing now I must be bold to tell your Ladyship , which it may be you yet know not , and I presume your excellent good nature , will not be offended at it , for I am sure it proceeds from a true zeal to your Ladyships service .

Lady M.

Truly Mirs . N. you needed not have troubled your self with so much apology , to usher in your discourse , you know that I love nothing like a friendly , neighbourly freedome ; and faults as I know , I have enough , so I desire to hear , and to amend .

Mrs. N.

Nay Madame , it is no fault , that by your Ladyships favour , I am about to tell you , but a meer misfortune onely , and so it is humbly conceived by all those , that as I said before , do so cordially love and honour your Ladyship , and might be with as much ease and happyness to your self , remedied , as we all do apprehend .

L. M.

Deer Mrs. N. I prethee make hast to take me off the thorns of my longing expectation to know the issue of your desires , and I 'le promise you faithfully my best endeavours , to the very utmost of my power to render you , and all the world besides , what satisfaction is desired in that particular .

Mrs. N.

O madame , that you would so say , and hold , I should then be the happiest woman in the world .

Lady M.

Why Mrs N. I hope you never yet found me worse then my word , I pray you therefore be cleer with me , and you shall be sure of an equal return .

Mrs. N.

Why then dear Madame , give me leave to say , that I am but the voyce of many thousands more , who have so perfect a love and honor for your Ladyship , that they would think their lives too little to serve you , and are doubly troubled ; first , for your Ladiships sake , whom they take to be the pattern of all noble goodness , and so perfectly amiable in your self , that you should yet remain in such an odious and idolatrous Religion ; then for themselves , that they cannot have the happiness to enjoy your Ladiships company and family in our Churches , as well as in our Markets , and that our souls do not meet in a spiritual , as well as civil conversation , which heavenly content , if your Ladyship would once please to give us , we should all think our selves arrived at a blessedness , beyond any people in the earth .

Lady M.

O Mrs. N. I do very much acknowledge my self indebted to you , and all my good neighbours here , for your great respects towards me , and I 'le assure you I shall be always willing to impart my estate amongst them , for their worldly advantages , but much more for their souls good , aod that we may be all again reduced into one , I mean , that old blessed communion , which was not full two ages since , apparently perfect amongst us all here , but since our breaches now , are grown so great , and that happiness , without an extraordinary miracle , is not to be restored to us , you must give me leave , to keep my own soul to God and his Church ; for my Faith , which you are pleased to call so odious , and Idolatrous , words that I must confess , I little expected to hear fall from you , is built upon such a foundation , as can never fail , no not though heaven and earth should , or an Angel from heaven , should preach another doctrine , as the Apostle forewarns us .

Mrs. N.

Deer madame ; in consideration of the integrity of my heart towards you , I hope your Ladiships goodness , will pardon that rudeness of any words , that may fall from me . But sure sweet madame , there can be no such foundation , as you speak of , unless in the undoubted word of God , which you have most cleerly , and intirely against you in all particulars , and therefore your Church , does all it can to blind you by keeping that from you , so leading you on still in errours , by an implicite faith in its doctrines , which are meer humane inventions .

Lady M.

Indeed Mrs. N. you are very much mistaken , in the whole drift of your discourse , and that , I conceive occasioned by the continual slanders thrown upon us , both from your Prints and Pulpits . For our Church hinders none from reading the Scripture , that can satisfie their Pastors , that they have a temper fit for it , and humility enough , to resign up their faith to mysteries , that wil not make such use of it , as most of you do , by giving of your own shallow interpretations to it , and opposing your single sence , against the current of the Church . As for my part , I have a liberty , asmuch as I would desire , to read the holy Scripture , and am , I thank God conversant in it , both day & night , I do likewise finde unexpressible comfort by it , and a confirmation of my faith , every day more and more .

Mrs. N.

Why then it seems , your Ladiship reads it with strange prejudice and partiality , for other wise , it were impossible , but you should find the grossness of those errours , that are delivered to you for matters of faith , & if you shall please , good madame , to give me leave , I will be bold to offer some collections of my own , out of Scripture , to save your Ladiship a further trouble in the search , & as I shall from time to time have occasion to wait upon you , so I shall communicate them to your Ladiship , and make that the whole business of our future discourse , till we shall be otherwise satisfied , and I 'le promise you , my husband shal not be knowing to it .

Lady . M.

Mrs. N. I do most willingly accept your offer , but care not much whether your husband be assistant to you , or not in the mater , for I am sure it s not in the power of men or devils , to change the word of God , however they may pervert the sence of it for a time , and so possess the souls , of their unhappy disciples .

Mrs. N.

Well then madame , I shall be bold to wait on you again within these few days , and shew you some Scriptures , that shall quite overthrow your so much fancied foundation , and I hope by consequence bring your Ladyship into our Religion .

Lady M.

I pray you do sweet Mrs. N. and I shall promise onely this , that you shall finde my reason not at all refractory to any thing , and we will manage this controversie , as you say , by our selves , and as women in labour use to do , never cry out for the help of man , till we shall be highly enforced .

Mrs. N.

Indeed Madame , I doubt not but you will finde the business so clear , that we shall never need to come to that . So the combate being mutually imbraced on both sides , with very great kindness they at that time parted : some days after , Mrs. N. came again to visit my Lady , and brought her weapons with her , and so began again to accost her . Madame , the greatest things indifference , as I humbly conceive between us , is about that which is indeed the greatest concernment of our salvation , the most holy Sacrament , of our Lords Supper , wherein your Church hath brought so many visible and palpable abuses , and against known Scripture , that when your Ladyship shall be once satisfied in those , I hope we shall not need to proceed much further . I have here reduced those abuses into four heads ; as first , your doctrine of Transubstantiation , and affirming your Eucharist to be the very body of Christ . Secondly , your giving half the Sacrament to the people , and depriving them of the Cup. Thirdly , making your Mass a sacrifice ; and Lastly , for saying your Mass in Latine , and not in English , or other mother tongues : and to all these particulars , I have brought you as I conceive such apposite Texts , and here in order set down in this paper , that I doubt not will give your Ladyship just reason to suspect the frauds , and gross collusions of your Church , in all things else .

Lady . M.

Well deer Mrs. N. I thank you heartily for this favour , and I promise you faithfully that I will very carefully and impartially , examine this paper , which if upon a just consideration I shall not be able to answer , I will then very fairly and honestly declare my submission to it within three or four days , I will by Gods help repay your kinde visit , and bring you the best satisfaction I shall be able to do , and so I pray God to enlighten us both to see his faith and truth , so for the present they parted , and the Lady fell to the perusual of the paper , that Mrs. N. had left with her , which was to this effect , as followeth .

That the very body of Christ is neither in , or under the Eucharist or Sacrament of the Lords Supper , is apparant by these few texts taken out of , and reasons deduced from Scripture .

Our Saviour Christ himself saith , Matth. 29. For ye have the poor always with you , Mat. 26.11 . but me ye have not always . Now if he were , as you believe you have him in the Eucharist , we should have him always .

He saith again , John 6. It is the Spirit that quickneth , John 6.63 . the flesh profiteth nothing , if therefore the flesh profiteth nothing , what need is there of that great contention , you make to have it in the Eucharist ?

We have it frequently in the Psalms , and other Scriptures , Psalm . that the heavens must contain him till the last day : otherwise there would be a falsification of no less then three Articles of our Faith . Apost. Creed . He ascended into heaven ; He there sitteth at the right hand of God the Father , From thence he shall come , &c. Now if he be corporeally in heaven , how shall he be upon the Altar , for the same body cannot possibly be in two places .

Our Saviour in his institution , does not say take my body , Four Gospels but take bread , nor is it to be imagined , that the nature of it can be changed by the blowing & mumbling a few words , from a Priests mouth . Besides when Christ instituted his last supper , he had a mortal body , now being immortal , how can it be said , this is my body which shall be delivered up for you .

We do finde all the holy Evangelists calling it bread , Gospels Acts 2.41 . 1 Cor. 10. we finde in the Acts of the Apostles said , how they continued stedfastly in the Apostles doctrine , and fellowship , and in breaking of bread , &c. then in S. Paul to the Corinthians , the bread which we break , is it not the communion of the body of Christ , and again in the next Chapter , so let a man examine himself and so let him eat of that bread and drink of that cup : Thus currently in Scripture is the Sacrament called bread , and yet your Church , will have no bread left in it .

Our Saviour gives us a fair warning Mat. 24 of those deceivers , Mat. 24.5 . that shall come and say in his name here is Christ , and there is Christ , and shall deceive many , we are not therefore to believe those that say that Christ is in this , or in that Host .

That it is Impious , to deprive the people of the cup , is proved thus .

Our Saviour Christ did institute the Sacrament under both kinds , Mat. 26. and communicated both to his Apostles , and gave a command absolutely to all , drink ye all of this .

Our Saviour being likewise to recommed the Sacramental use to us , says plainly , John 6.53 . that he who drinketh not his blood , as well as he that eateth not the flesh of the son of man , hath no life in him .

It is confest by all of your own side , that the Primitive Christians , did always communicate under both kindes , by what authority then , do they come now to be deprived ? And if the Church hath power to take away one part of the Sacrament , why can it not likewise by the same reason , take away the other , and forbid them the use of the whole Eucharist ?

You all confess that your Priests sin mortally , if they do not communicate under both species , why then should not the Laity , sin as much by their omission so to receive it ?

That your Mass is not or can be made a sacrifice , is clear by these sacred Texts .

S. Paul speaking of the true sacrifice of Christ , Heb. 10.10.12.14 . says , That we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Christ , once for all , again this man after he had offered one sacrifice &c.

Then afterwards the Apostle , repeats , and refers thus , for by one offering be hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified .

Then again he speaks more plainly in another Chapter to this purpose , Heb. 7.26 . & 27. For such an high Priest became us , &c. who needeth not dayly as those high Priests to offer up sacrifice , first for his own sins , and then for the peoples , for this he did once when he offered up himself .

Then the current of the whole 9th . Chapter is to prove that Christ did once by his blood , Heb. 9. enter into the Holy of Holies , for our eternall redemption , 26. and towards the latter end of it expresly says , vers. 26. that now , once at the end of the world , hath he appeared , to put away sin , by the sacrifice of himself .

The Mass can be but a Testament at most , out of our Saviours own words , Mat. 26. Luke 22.20 . This is my blood of the new Testament , so S. Matthew , and S. Luke gives them thus , This cup is the new Testament in my blood , which is shed for you , now I would fain know how a sacrifice can be made out of a Testament .

Your Mass is but a remembrance at most of that sacrifice and oblation which Christ once offered , therefore he saith not in his institution offer this , but do this in remembrance of me , and again so often as you shall do this , do it in remembrance of me , no word of sacrifice , or offering .

That your Priests , saying Mass in Lattine , and not in English do offer abuse to God and his Church is proved thus .

The whole drift of the 14th . Chapter , 1 Cor. is to forbid the Corinthians and consequently all others , 1 Cor. 14 the use of unknown tongues in Churches .

It is manifest likewise in the current of that Chapter , Vers. 19. that whatsoever is done in the Church publickly must be done to the understanding of the people , but when your Mass is said in Lattine , it is impossible for all the Laity to understand your service .

The Apostle frequently commands in other places , as well as this same Chapter , 1 Cor. 8. 1 Cor. 10.23 . 1 Cor. 14.3 . vers. 26. all things to be done to edification , but where there is no understanding , there can beno edification , so by consequence , no more fruit can follow upon the hearing of one of your Masses than the amendment of a wall is to be expected from an excellent Sermon , that is made to it , for that purpose .

Thus I have been bold to trouble your Ladyship , but with a few texts , yet those are pregnant ones to your purpose , and so I pray the Lord , to give you understanding in all things .

The Lady within three or four days , sent a servant of hers with this Answer .

Sweet Mrs. N. being hindred now by very extraordinary occasions , from paying your last kinde visit , I thought my self never the less obliged , to send you the best satisfaction I could , to the Paper , you left with me , and so I have endeavoured to do , as you will finde by the inclosed , and as punctually as I could , to every particular .

To the first .

To what you alledge out of S. Matthew , against the mystery of the blessed Presence , I answer , Mat. 28.20 . out of the last words of the same S. Matthews Gospel , And loe I am with you unto the end of the world , it is plain therefore that when our Saviour says , me you have not always , it is to be understood , of his corporeal presence , inhumane conversation , for now he is not to be annointed washed , and dryed , as then , when he spoke those words , he was to be , by the blessed Magdalen .

To the second .

To what you alledge out of S. John , that the flesh profiteth nothing , I say first , that if the flesh profiteth us Catholicks nothing , I am sure , the bare bread must profit all Hereticks less . Nor indeed do I remember ; that I ever heard of any Heretick so impudent , as to say , that the flesh of Christ upon the Cross profited nothing . Besides , is this a consequence , the flesh profiteth nothing , therefore it is not in the Sacrament , truly if that be good Logick , it may as well follow in my judgement , that the flesh of Christ profiteth nothing , therefore it is not in heaven , over and above all this , it is plain our Saviour speaks not there of his own flesh , for he says not , my flesh profiteth nothing , indeed some of the Jews there , had such a foolish oppinion , as to think upon our Saviours mystical words , that the very flesh of Christ should be visibly , under the species of flesh torn by mens teeth , that sottishness of theirs , our Saviour onely reproves .

To the third .

To what you alledge out of Scriptures , and Articles of Faith , I answer , and acknowledge our Lord and Saviour to be in heaven , and fitting on the right hand of his Father in visible and quantitative form , yet he may lye invisibly and sacramentally , under the species of Bread . Nor does the verity of our Eucharist , clash at all with the verity of our Articles of Faith : for we know as the Scripture tells us , that with God nothing is impossible , His Almighty word sure can as easily make a body to be in divers places , as nature his servant can make the essence of a soul , to be in divers members . Nay we see it plainly and positively said so , nor can it chuse but be so , for Jesus Christ who as we said is eternally to be at the right hand of his Father , yet appeared upon earth to S. Paul , Acts 9.22 . & 1 Cor. 15.

To the fourth .

To what you alledge out of our Saviours institution , I utterly deny that he said , take ye bread , but taking bread , he said , take and eat , this is my body . Now I would fain know what difference there is betwixt saying , take my body , and taking bread to say , take , this is my body ; nor is it the mumbling or breathing of the Priests mouth , that makes this miraculous change ; but Christ himself , when the Priest according to his institution , speaks the words of consecration , is pleased to assist with his divine omnipotency , and convert the substance of bread into his very body , and wine into his blood . Now this power was delivered by Christ to his Apostles , when he gave them Commission to do the like , and bid them so often as they did it , to do it in remembrance of him , and so the Apostle Paul tells us , that what he received from the Lord , that he delivered to us . Then as to the impassibility of the body of Christ , we do most humbly acknowledge it , nor do our Priests say , ( who know that our Saviour dies no more ) that his body shall be delivered , but they relate onely that our Saviour did use those words at his last Supper , which is Truth , for then his body was to be delivered , and his blood to be shed .

To the fifth .

For the Evangelists calling it bread , it is always understood before consecration , but that being done , they do all unanimously call it the body of Christ . In like manner the Apostles , and Fathers might sometime call it so , because before its change , it was so , as a Serpent in Scripture was called a Rod , because it was a Rod , but Aarons Rod , devoured their Rods : Exod. 7. then because the figure of bread , and all its other accidents remain , as things are sometimes called from their representations , 1 Kings 10. so Solomon was said to make oxen , and little Lions , because he made the images of them . Then the Eucharist may still be called bread , because in it is the living bread which came down from heaven . John 5.

To the sixth and last .

To what you alledge , out of the 24th . of S. Matthew , I answer , that you are mistaken cleerly in the Text , for those words you make to be spoken of the body of Christ , are clearly meant of Christs kingdome of Faith . His divine Majesty cleerly foresaw , that the Hussits would have one Christ to stand for them , the Lutherans one Christ to be for them , the Annabaptists one for them , the Calvinists one for them the Arminians one for them , and Socinians one for them , and the like : of such bold challengers of Christ , as those , and other Hereticks are , our blessed Saviour gives us a fair warning to beware , which good Mrs. N. God give you grace to do .

Thus I have bri●fly , and punctually as I could , answered your alligations out of the Scripture against the mystery of Christs Reall Presence in the Sacrament . Now give me leave to mind you of some places of Scripture , that do most expresly assert the Catholick doctrine against you .

First , the words of our Saviours institution in all the four Evangelists , are most significantly harmonious to a letter : Mat. 14.26 , 27 , 28. as first in S. Matthew , And as they were eating , Jesus took bread and blessed it , and brake it and gave it the Disciples and said , take , eat , this is my body , and he took the cup , and gave thanks , and gave it to them saying , drink yee all of it , for this is my bloud of the new Testament , which is shed for many , for the remission of sins .

S. Mark hath it thus ; And as they did eat , Jesus took bread , Mark 14 22 , 23.24 . and blessed , and brake it , and gave to them and said , take , eat , this is my body , and he took the cup , and when he had given thanks , he gave it to them , and they all drank of it , and he said unto them , this is my bloud of the new Testament , which is shed for many . Luke 22.19 , 20. St. Luke thus , And he brake bread , and gave thanks , and brake it , and gave unto them , saying , This is my body , which is given for you ; this do in remembrance of me : Likewise also , the Cup after Supper , saying , This cup is the New Testament in my blood , which is shed for you .

St. John in his sixth Chapter , Joh. 6.51.53 , 54 , 55 , 56 , 57. makes it his whole business to shew how our Saviour did endeavour to explain this mysterie ; and therefore is pleased expresly to say , I am the living bread which came down from heaven , if any man eat of this bread , he shall live for ever ; and the bread that I will give is my flesh , which I will give for the life of the world : Then upon the Jews murmuring , he adds , Verily , verily , I say unto you , except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man , and drink his blood , ye have no life in you ; whoso eateth my flesh , and drinketh my blood hath eternal life , and I will raise him up at the last day ; for my flesh is meat indeed , and my blood is drink indeed : He that eateth my flesh , and drinketh my blood , dwelleth in me , and I in him . As the living Father hath sent me , and I live by the Father : So he that eateth me , even he shall live by me , &c.

The Gospels themselves are yet more clearly explicated by St. Paul , who tels us thus , 1 Cor. 11.23 , 24 , 25. For I have received of the Lord , that which I also delivered unto you , that the Lord Jesus , the same night in which he was betrayed , took bread ; And when he had given thanks , he brake it , and said , Take eat , this is my body , which is broken for you ; you , this do in remembrance of me ; and after the same manner also , he took the cup , when he had supped , saying , This cup is the New-Testament in my blood , &c. And then to set the business out of all doubt concludes , He that eateth and drinketh unworthily , eateth and drinketh damnation to himself , not discerning the Lords body . Can any thing be more plain ?

Then further , St. Paul , begins with a Preface , I speak as to wise men , 1 Cor. 10.15 , 16 , 17. judge ye what I say , The cup of blessing which we bless , is it not the communion of the body of Christ ? The Bread which we break is it not the communion of the body of Christ ? For we being many , are one bread , and one body ; for we are all partakers of that one bread . Does not the Apostle here most clearly , and expresly shew that in every particle of the consecrated bread , the whole body of Christ is communicated : and as he thought them only wise that could understand that mysterie ; so we must think them stupid that will not , and worse then Jews that go about to pervert and torment this and other Texts , to any other sense .

Over and ahove all this , consider a little more upon that Text before cited , 1 Cor. 11.28 , 29. But let a man examine himself , and so let him eat of that bread , and drink of that Cup ; for he that eateth and drinketh unworthily , eateth and drinketh damnation to himself , not discerning the Lords body . Here it is clear that by reason of the presence of the body of Christ , the unworthy Receiver is damned , because he sins against that body . There is no man can deny , but the unworthy eater , be it what it will that is eaten , must be guilty of that which is eaten . Here St. Paul most clearly instructs the Corinthians , that it is no simple bread , or ordinary nourishment , that is set upon the Altar , but the very body of Christ , that who ever eats thereof should be guilty of it ; therefore the Apostle adds , not discerning the Lords body , that is , not distinguishing it from other food . This I am likewise informed by the Learned , to be the sence of the Church in all Ages ; no Primitive Christian ever daring to oppose the clearness of so much express Scripture , till one Berengarius , as they call him , had the impudence to do it , but afterwards recanted , and abjured it before the Pope , thirteen Arch-bishops , and an hundred Bishops , which God grant all those , that have followed his footsteps , to do likewise .

Now that this Transubstantiation , Gen. 2. or transelementation is no way impossible to be done , no nor for you to conceive , as you alledge , see what God hath done in the like kinde ; first in the beginning of the world , God form'd man of the dust of the earth , here God changed dust into flesh ; in the same chapter we finde how God turn'd the rib of man into woman , a bone into flesh . Gen. 19. Exod. 4. Then Lots wife looking back is turn'd into a pillar of salts then Moses threw down his Rod , and it was turn'd into a Serpent .

Then I will strike the water of the River with my Rod , and it shall be turn'd into blood , Exod. 7. and divers more such mutations there are in the Old Testament . As for the New , we find that our Saviours first publick miracle was to turn water into wine ; and this great omnipotency of his , the Devil full well knew , when he to tempt him said , If thou beest the son of God , turn these stones into bread . Thus you dispute that power in him , which the Devils themselves acknowledge : Now as Christ with five little Breads , did feed five thousand men , by making of bread by his Almighty multiplication ; so now he feeds his whole Church of the faithful , with one Bread , that is his body Sacramentally .

Then , that Jesus Christ did do some things miraculously with his body , whilest he was upon the earth , which we cannot do with our bodies , nor can any humane reason comprehend , you will not dare to deny , as that he pierced the grave and Tombstone , afterwards when he rose from the dead , that he pierced a house , the doors and windows being shut , and that he pierced the Highest Heavens with his body , when he ascended ; all these things , I say , you will not dare to deny ; yet this which is enjoyned you by the same Authority to believe , you are pleas'd to dispute . What is this , but to pick and choose what you please your selves to believe ? and from being such a chooser in matter of Faith , shall be ever a part of my Letany , Good Lord deliver me , for that , I am told , is to be a true Heretick .

To what you alledge of Impiety against the Church of Rome , for depriving the people of the Cup , I answer thus .
To the first Argument .

I shall clearly grant what you say , that Christ being then to Consecrate did Institute the Sacrament under both kinds , and gave it to his Apostles in both kinds , who now were Priests ; Therefore the Priest to this day that celebrates , takes it likewise in both kinds , but what is this to the Laity ? For those words , Drink ye all of this , was said only to his Apostles and Priests , who do it still , that is , Consecrate in the Commemoration of Christ ; for no other were present at his most holy Supper , but the Apostles , no not his own blessed Mother , as it is clear out of all the Gospels . Nay St. Mark tells us , Mar. 1● . 23 that they all drank of it , which shews clearly , that that all was only meant of the Apostles , for it was impossible to be true of the Laity .

To the second .

I shall likewise grant , that he that drinketh not his blood , as well as he that eateth not his flesh , hath no life in him ; but to a Sacramental eating and drinking , there is required still a Spiritual intelligence , according to what our Saviour himself said , the words that he spake they were spirit , and they were life . From whence we may conclude , that since the whole Christ , both body and blood is comprehended under one Species , a Lay man may be said to drink the blood of Christ , though not under its proper species , yet under the species of Bread . Again , our Saviour in that Chapter of St. Johns Gospel , treats principally of our incorporation into him , which is sufficiently effected by our Communion in one kind , the whole Christ being there , and the other Species is not at all to be said necessary to that incorporation with Christ .

To the third .

I shall grant likewise , that it hath been permitted to the Laity , to participate of the blessed Sacrament under both kinds : and yet that use was not universal neither , as it appears in the second chapter of the Acts , where it is said that the people continued stedfastly in the Apostles Doctrine , Acts. 2 . 4●.46 . and fellowship , and in breaking of bread and in prayers : and verse 46. And they continued daily with one accord in the Temple , and breaking bread : there is no mention made at all of the Cup. But howsoever the use was then , and there , we are sure in the Western Church the Cup was never permitted to the Laity , and that for many reasons ; First considering the multitude of Communicants , some old , some young , some weak , and some strong , there would be great danger of spilling that most precious liquour . 2. It would be very difficult to finde a commodious Vessel , to contain a quantity equal to such a multitude , from whence it might be taken without danger of effusion . 3. The Sacrament under the species of Wine , could not easily be conserv'd for the use of the sick , because it would be apt to grow sower , and corrupt , to the moving of a nauceousness and a vomit in the Receiver . 4. Without great danger of effusion it could not be easily carry'd from place to place , as it should be to the sick . 5. It would happen sometimes that some high irreverencies would be offer'd to that most celestial and worthy Sacrament . 6. We have it related and attested from some most holy & learned persons , that some Religious men , though Lay Brothers , were importunate to receive in both kindes ; whilst the Priest was in the action of the Sacrament , the Patin or Plate where the sacred Host lay appeared full of blood , to the astonishment and satisfaction of all the beholders ; and the Petitioners gave off the importunity of their former request .

Over & above all this , we are to beleeve , that it was a most ancient custom in the Primitive Church that the Laity should communicate but under one species : Nay , that it came from the very Tradition of the Apostles , because the beginning of it could never yet bee shew'd , nor can by any man .

Besides , we know that there were some amongst the Jews that never did , nor could drink Wine ; and in some Christian Countries there is a great difficulty , and at some times almost an impossibility to get any Wine .

Now as for your inference , that if the Church could take away one species , it might as well take away both , I utterly deny ; for the whole Christ being no lesse under one species than under both , and as much fruit of comfort and spiritual nutriment , to be had from one , as well as the other , the Church neither does , nor can deprive any Christian of the Benefit of the whole Sacrament .

To the fourth and last .

I grant again , that the Priest who is to consecrate , does and ought to consecrate both species , because he is to perform the representation of our Lords passion , therefore the body and blood together are consecrated under both their proper species ; and the Priest in the person of the whole people present offereth , and taketh it under both species , and the whole people in the person of the Priest , do , or ought to beleeve , that they receive and drink the very blood of Christ by a spirituall kind of taking , which is very sufficient for them , so there can be in them no guilt of omission at all .

Now here again give me leave to return to you some Texts , that you may bee pleas'd to consider of , and I hope you will receive the same satisfaction that I have done , in the full right and reason of the point , that it is sufficient for the people to receive the Sacrament under one kind only .

First , be pleas'd to examine throughly the sixth Chapter of Saint Iohns Gospel , where our Saviour so often calls himself the bread of life . Joh. 6 . 3● , 33 , 34. My father giveth you the true bread from heaven : For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven and giveth life unto the world . Then again , Iesus said unto them , I am the bread of life : 48. And again , I am the bread of life : Again , 50. this is that bread which came down fro● heaven , that any man may eat thereof and not dye . And again , I am the living bread which came down from heaven , if any man eate of this bread , he shall live for ever ; and the bread that I will give is my flesh , which I will give for the life of the world . Here our Saviour is ple●s'd to mention nothing but Bread .

Secondly : St. Luke assures us , Luk. 24.30 that our Saviour gave the Sacrament himself but in one kinde to the two Disciples going to 〈◊〉 : And it come to passe as he sate at meat with them , he t●●k bread and blessed it , and brake , and gave to them , and inmediately their eyes were opened , &c. And this was the onely time , that our Saviour gave the Sacrament to the Lairy .

Our Saviour therefore taught us in St. Mat. 6.11 . Matthew , to pray daily for our substantial Bread ; no mention at all of Drink .

Then we find in the Acts of the Apostles , immediately after the Ascention of Christ , that the people continued stedfastly in the Apostles doctrine and fellowship , and in breaking of bread , Act. 2.42.46 . and in prayers . And again : They continued daily with one accord in the Temple , and breaking of bread , &c.

Now for a further confirmation of all this , St. Paul makes this inference : 1 Cor. 5.7 , 8. For even Christ our Passeover is sacrificed for us ; therefore let us keep the feast , neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness , but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth . And in the tenth Chapter explains it thus : For we being many ( meaning Priests and people ) are one Bread and one body ; 1 Cor. 10.17 . for we are all partakers of that one Bread . All these Texts , as I am inform'd , the Holy Fathers of the Primitive Church understood as the Church does now ; and being at the point of death themselves , would never communicate but in one species .

To the Proofes that you are pleased to produce against the Sacrifice of the Masse , I answer thus .
To the first .

Those Texts of the Apostle which you urge , are clear to another sence than what you propose : For you are to understand a twofold offering of Christ , yet both reall and true ; for in both Christ is truly offered and sacrificed . The first way of offering is that with which he once offered his living body and blood to God the Father upon the Altar of the Cross for the sinnes of the whole world , and salvation of mankinde ; and of that great offering the Apostle onely speaks there , shewing the excellency of that sacrifice above the sacrifices of the Law . Of which sacrifice speaking likewise to the Ephesians , Ephes. 5.2 . he saith , he hath given himself for us , an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet smelling sav●n . Now this grand oblation is represented by our holy Mother the Church but once in the year , and that is Saturday in the holy week ; neither is there any consecration at all made that day of the Sacrament : But the Eucharist that was consecrated the former day , is then receiv'd , lest the Church of Christ should remain depriv'd of the comfortable fruits of our Lords Passion . The other way of Oblation is cleerly Sacramental , and yet nevertheless real , by which Christ is daily offer'd in the Church , and receiv'd by Priests in the Sacrifice of the Mass , under the Sacrament , in commemoration of the Passion , Dead , and that former Oblation once made upon the Cross : So that the Priest in the person of the whole Church , doth present to God the Father the Oblation made by the Sonne upon the Altar of the Cross , and him offered ; and that is the Offering according to the order of Melchisedech . However this Oblation may be but rightly call'd commemorative ; not that Jesus Christ is not rightly and truly offered , but because he is offered here under a Sacrament , invisibly and recordatively , in remembrance of his former Oblation , by his own command , Numb. 28.3 . and according to his own Institution . And this is the oblation that was signified by the continual burnt-offering in the Old Law , in which there was a Lamb without spot to be offered every morning and every evening . This second Oblation , I say , the Priests of Christ doe make daily by the command of Christ himselfe , Luke 22. grounded upon those words , Do this in remembrance of me : For this word do cannot referre onely to a bare sumption , or taking of the Sacrament , as you would have it , but an Action and Oblation ; otherwise they should not have had the power of Consecration by those words . Christ perfected at once the Oblation of himself upon the Altar of the Cross in one bloody Sacrifice , and by the frequent repetition of this unbloody one , the fruits and effects of the former are daily deriv'd to us : So that the Mass is not only a representation of our Lords last Supper , but of his Passion , Death , and Oblation of himselfe ; and therefore our Eucharist is not onely a Sacrament , as you say , but it is also a real Sacrifice ; a Sacrament truly it is , as it does represent , and is taken ; but a Sacrifice it is , as it is offered and sacrificed to God ; and by this reason our Mass , in which this great Sacrifice is celebrated , is called a Sacrifice too .

To the second and third .

In the like manner , I shall answer both your following arguments ; for those Texts doe clearly speake of the first Oblation that Christ made of himself ; our Sacrifices here are but examples of that , and ye● we offer still the same thing , not as in the Old Law , to day one Lamb , and to morrow another , but alwayes the same , so it is still one Sacrifice ; for as he that is offered is one body , not many , so is our Sacrifice still but one . Behold how we offer daily one Sacrifice , which once was offered , though ( as is aforesaid ) there is great difference in the manner of offering ; the one by a real bloody oblation , the other by recordation and representation .

To the fourth .

That our Saviour did say , that his blood was the New Testament , &c. I grant ; but deny that therefore the Mass should be so ; for that which he spoke was onely to confirme our Faith in the New Testament ; Exod. 24.8 . for as Moses being to confirm the Old Testament , took the blood of Calves and Geats , &c. and sprinkled the people , saying , this is the blood of the Covenant which the Lord hath made with you , concerning all these words : So Christ with his own blood confirm'd his New Testament unto us , and enter'd into the Holy of Holyes . Besides , there be many things of the New Testament , that belong not at all to the Mass , as Baptism , the Power of the Keyes , &c. Nay , over and above all this , it does not follow , Heb. 9. that if the Mass were a Testament , it should be therefore no Sacrifice ; for a Testament , according to that of the Apostle , includes the death of the Testator ; and the Mass being a Testament , does imply the death of its Testator Jesus Christ , and so by consequence must involve the Oblation .

To the fifth and last .

I shall clearly grant you again , that the Mass is a recordation or remembrance of the Passion of Christ , but not so nakedly , as when a Lay person does simply communicate ; but it is a remembrance after this manner , as it is the representative action of the whole Passion . And this Jesus Christ said , do ye , not onely take ye , but do ye : that is ( if we joyne the precedents and sebsequents together ) consecrate . offer , take : therefore that part of the Mass is called Action . So therefore , as there was a continual Sacrifice in the Old Testament ; so in the Law of Grace is Christ our Saviour made our continual Offering , and shall continue so for ever , till Anti-Christ shall come , as our Doctors do affirm , and then it shall cease for a while .

Now give me leave again to return you some proofes out of the Scriptures , of the congruity , and necessity , that the Mass should bee a Sacrifice .

First , Lev. 5.6.9.14 . it is manifest that in the Old Law there was to be an offering for the sins of the people , and it was alwaies the duty of the Priests to offer for their ignorances and sins , and for their cleansing : And what Religion was there ever so stupid , as to pretend to the service of a Deity , without some Sacrifice , except some novel Christians , to the very scandal of Jews and Turks .

Secondly : Malach. 1.10 , 11. The Prophet Malachy does most plainly Prophesie of our great Sacrifice , when he brings the Lord speaking to Israel , I have no pleasure in you , saith the Lord of Hosts , neither will I accept any offering at your hand : for from the rising of the Sun to the going down of the same my name shall be great amongst the Gentiles ; and in every place Incense shal be offered unto my name , & a pure offering ; for my name shall be great among the heathen , saith the Lord of hosts . Is not this a most plain Prediction of the Cessation of the Sacrifices of the old Law , and the Institution of the Sacrifice of the new Law ? Nor can this be meant of that Sacrifice which Christ offered once upon the Cross , because the Prophet speaks of a Sacrifice to be offered in every place , and speaks but only of one oblation ; and that is nothing , nor can be , but the pure Sacrifice of the body of Christ , so often repeared upon in our Masses , and upon our Christian Altars .

Nay yet examine a little further in this great Prophet , Malath . 3.1 , 2 , 3. and you will finde yet a clearer evidence for our Christian sacrifice ; for being about his prophecies of the Messiah to come , and having foretold the coming of the Baptist before him , says plainly that the Lord shall suddenly come to his Temple , even the Messenger of the Covenant , whom you delight in , saith the Lord of Hosts , &c. And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver ; and he shall purifie the sons of Levi , and purge them as gold and silver , that they may offer unto the Lord an offering in righteousness : Then shall the offerings of Judah and Jerusalem be pleasant unto the Lord , as in the days of old , and as in former years . What can be more plain then this Prophecy , that the Saviour of the world should purifie his Priests , that is , our Evangelical ones , to offer Sacrifices , not in blood , but in righteousness ; which can be nothing but our most holy Eucharist .

The Prophet Daniel comes , yet if possible , Malach. 3.1 , 2 , 3. closer to the purpose , saying , Many shall be purified , and made white and tryed , but the wicked shal do wickedly , & none of the wicked shall understand , but the wise shall understand : And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away , & the abomination that maketh desolate set up , there shall be a thousand , two hundred and ninety days . This is a clear Prophecy of the coming of Antichrist , and how long he shall reign , during which time the continual , Matth. 24. or daily Sacrifice , and this our Saviour himself affirms shall be fulfilled , that upon the coming of Antichrist , there shall be an universal Cessation of our great sacrifice , for almost four years , and nothing but desolation of Churches . Let them look to it therefore , that are hinderers of this glorious and continual Sacrifice from being offered in private Churches , least they be convinced to be the forerunners of Antichrist .

But yet more plainly let us hear what St. Heb. 5.1 , 2 , 3. Paul says in the Epistle to the Hebrews ; For every High Priest taken from amongst men , is ordained for men in things pertaining to God , that he may offer both gifts , and sacrifices for sins . Who can have compassion on the ignorant , and on them that are out of the way ; for that he himself also is compassed with infirmity : And by reason hereof , he ought as for the people ; so also for himself , to offer for sins . Can any thing be more plain ? here the Apostle being to define the duty of a Priest ; declares it to be principally to offer for sins ; and whereas you say , that no one man can offer for another ; St. Paul sure was of another Religion ; for he says the Priest ought to offer for the Peoples , as well as for his own sins ; and to this purpose I have been told by those that are skil'd in Antiquity , that it has been call'd the Sacrifice of the Mass , ever since the beginning of Christianity : So enough I conceive said , as to this point .

To what you alledge of abuse in our Church , by our Mass being said in Latine , and not in English , I answer thus .
To the first .

I shall for your satisfaction reserr you to the current of that whole Chapter of St. Paul to the Corinthians , which you so urge against our Mass , where it is plain that he speaks of Prophesying , that is , of preaching , interpreting , and expounding the Scriptures ; and sure it would be a very absurd thing , that any man should undertake to preach to the people in an unknown tongue ; therefore the Apostle in the 19. verse , explains himself thus , Yet in the Church I had rather speak five words with my understanding , 1 Cur. 14.19 . that by my voice I might teach others also , then ten thousand words in an unknown tongue . I pray you mark those words , that I might teach others , which must be understood of Preaching , not of celebration of the Mass , or publick Liturgy of the Church .

To the second .

I answer as before , that the understanding so required by the Apostle , is principally meant of prophecying and preaching . As for praying , I shall not enter into the dispute ; for it is too nice a one for me , whether prayers though not understood , be not profitable and meritorious ; I am sure some of the most Learned Doctors have concluded that they are . But to our present purpose . I say , that though the Laity , do not all of them understand the words of the Mass , yet they do perfectly all the Mysteries of it , which they learn from their Cradles ▪ either by instruction of their Parents and Masters , or by the preaching and catechising of their Pastors and Curats ; then having the words of the Mass in their own Mother Tongue , delivered to them in their private Primars and other books , they perfectly understand by those mysterious actions and Ceremonies that the Priest useth , whereabouts in the Mass he is , and what words he is about to say : and this is manifest by the peoples actions there , who sometimes kneel , and sometimes stand up , sometimes bow , sometimes beat their brests , and other times sign themselves with the sign of the Cross , as the several passages in the Mass shall require . By which external actions of theirs it is notorious that they understand more of the mysteries of the Mass , then the most Learned Latinist in the world could , not being instructed in the mysteries .

To the third and last .

As to this I might refer you for further answer , to what has been said before : for all your arguments upon this point , touch but upon one string ; but I will yet shew you , how much use and edification more , the people doe receive by our Masse , though in Latin . First , there is very much of the Holy Scripture in it , and by that the Holy Ghost speakes , and instils instruction into our hearts , though delivered in any tongue . Then the scope of the whose Masse , is unknown to no body , though never so ignorant ; for the end of the Masse , and principal intention of the Church , who ever hears must know , whether he understand the words more or lesse , to be the offering of the sacrifice , for the living and the dead , in the memory of the passion and death of our Saviour , to the glory of God , edification of his Church , and the honour of our Blessed Lady , and all his Saints : And why should not so much understanding in a Lay person be enough to his edification ? Nay I I am confident , that by their scantling of understanding their devotions are usually raised to a greater height , than the most learned and intelligent Auditors , who please themselves with a dry understanding of the words . Nay it is evident , that the devotion of a man , may be very much hindered , by too much attention to words . So much I conceive enough to your Arguments , & to conclude a Latin Masse to be sufficient for the people ; but yet if this were all in difference between us , I am perswaded the Church would easily permit you to have it in your own Mother tongue ; for in what language it is said , is onely matter of Discipline : But yet I have thought good to send you some Arguments likewise to convince you of the congruitie and conveniencie , if not necessitie , that the celebration of those Divine Mysteries should be still in Latin .

The Scripture tels us throughout Exodus , Leviticus and Numbers , with what care the people of the Jews were kept off from the holy place at the celebration of their Sacrifices ; how many Veyles and Curraines there were to be between the Tabernacle and them ; and none but the Priests suffered to enter ; is not our great Christian sacrifice then to be attended with as much reverence ?

Nay the Priests themselves went only into the first Tabernacle ; but into the second went the High Priest alone ; and that but once every year , not without blood , which he offered for himselfe , and for the errours of the people : Are not the Mysteries of our Faith more sacred ? I 'm sure all their Sacrifices were but types of ours ; and all those reverences which they payed then , were but to teach us our humble distance , and how to behave our selves before our dreadfull , and most mysterious sacrifice now .

We find our Saviour in the Garden , withdrawing himself from his Disciples , and praying filently , and secretly , as you may see both in Saint Matthews and Saint Lukes Gospels . Hee prayed , undoubtedly , for all the world , but his prayers were not heard , much lesse understood by any .

Now that you may be better inform'd in this point of Discipline , I must tell you that our Church has been ever carefull to pay equall reverence to those most sacred Mysteries , insomuch as from the beginning of Christianity , the people , nor yet Princes were ever suffer'd to come within the Rayle before the Altar ; and where there is no Rayle , the people are forbid to presse up towards the Altar , for fear of disturbing him in his great celebration . Nay in the Primitive Church the Christian Altars were covered with as many Curtains and Veyles as the Jewish formerly were ; and those Curtains never drawn , but at the time of Elevation ; and the people were kept at such a distance , as they could not onely not hear , but not see : what would you say to such a reverence as that ? And truly we are but children to those Primitive Christians , as well in devotion , as in time .

Now it would be worth your knowing likewise , how the three principall Languages that were in our Saviours time were these three , Hebrew , Greek , and Latin , which is clearly by the Title affixt upon the Crosse of Christ , that Pilate caus'd to be written in those three Languages , questionless not without a Mysterie : for as his Divine Majesty was pleas'd , to suffer his name then to be glorifi'd by that Triumphall Title , in those three Languages ; so his Church hath ever since thought fit to glorifie it , and to perform divine offices principally in those tongues : and therefore in our Mass is retein'd the Hebrew Allellujah , Osanna , Eya , Sabaoth , &c. Then the Greek , Kyrie Eleyson , Christe Eleyson , Agios , Otheos , Yskyros , Athanatos , Cleyson , Emas ; which words are as well now interpreted , and made known to the vulgar , as if they were words in their own Mother-tongues .

Then it wil be worth your while to take notice , that it is not in the power of any man to find out , that ever divine service was celebrated in any part of the Western Churches , but in Latine . For as we Western Christians receiv'd our Faith from Rome ; so we have their Language still in divine service ; and indeed so speaking , Latine may be call'd our Mother-Tongue , for so it is of our faith ; and what a confusion would follow upon a change of Language in divine service ! how should Italians , Spaniards , French , Dutch , Bohemians , Hungarians , &c. Communicate with us , if our Masses were in English ; all Christian Nations would seem Barbarians one to another , and the sacred Mass it self , would fall into contempt : whereas now all Nations , as if they were of one Parish , hear service in the same Tongue every where ; which may therefore , as I said before , be truly call'd our Mother-tongue , because it belongs to so many eminent Nations , and proves such a common benefit to : all you may please to adde , all this , to that upon reducing of the Mass into vulgar Languages , there would not only follow a confusion upon divers Nations , but a terrible scandall in each particular people and Nation . For let us look no further , than our own little England here , and examine the variety of Language in it , we shall find that some use the same word one way , and others another way , and the same word will signifie honestly and well , in one part of the Nation , and knavishly and vilely in another . Then we know that there is such a diversity in Tones and pronunciations amongst us , betwixt North and South , East and West ; that these sacred mysteries , falling into such vulgar mouths , that would not onely endanger to induce by their ridiculous dissonancy , a Babylonish confusion amongst us , but likewise expose that most sacred thing in Christianity , to a contempt .

And yet after all these necessities and conveniences are considered , if you will remain obstinate in your opinion , nor will otherwise be Catholick , but upon such an account as this , that you may have our Mass said to you in English ; I tel you again that I dare assure you , your whole Church may have it so ; for I have been fairly inform'd , that it ha's been already proffer'd by the Pope , towards an accommodation : for that , I am sure he may for a greater good dispence withall , it being but a pure point of discipline .

Thus Mistresse N. I have been bold to send you the best satisfaction I could to your ingenious Paper , and I beseech you be pleas'd to examine what I have here return'd , with the sameunbyassed judgement , as I have done what you brought me , and I doubt not but we shall quickly find our selves at the end of our controversie . So praying God to bless you and yours , I remain your true friend to serve you , M.

I pray you be pleas'd to take notice by the way that I do not refuse to fight with you at your own weapon , that is your own Scripture , clearly waving all the advantages that the difference of our Translations might give me .

POSCRIPT .

The Messenger my Lady sent with this Paper seal'd , having delivered it to Mistresse N. her own hands , she receiv'd it with great humility and kindnesse , desired him to stay a little whilst shee returned a word in answer , which she did , and seal'd it up with some papers inclos'd ; the Contents whereof were to this purpose .

Sweet Madam , I have receiv'd the favour of your Ladyships answer to the paper left with you ; but as yet I have not had time to peruse one line of it ; but I will promise your Ladyship that I will do it with the greatest candor , ingenuity and integrity that I can . Now Madam , during the time that you have been drawing up your return to my last Paper , I have been bold to prepare another trouble for you , which I hope your Ladyship will accept likewise and pardon the boldnesse that I take to make you work : but it is from the encouragement your Ladyships own goodness has given me , and I 'm sure your thoughts cannot be imployed upon better things ; so the Lord give a blessing to our endeavours : and sweet Madam be pleas'd to continue me , in the quality of ,

Madam , Your most humble Servant , N.
The Messenger Arriving speedily back at my Ladies House , and delivering the Letter , with the inclos'd papers , her Ladyship finding the Contents , fell to the work iw mediately , which you shall hear as followeth .

Madam , the Doctrine that your Church delivers , concerning good works is a Mother most strange erro●s and abuses of Christianity ; as confession , free will , &c. Which gives me the boldnesse to make my addresse to your Ladyship wholly to that purpose . So I shall first endeavour to overthrow your foundation , that is your Doctrine of good works .

That good Works signifie nothing to the Justification , much less to the salvation of a Christian , by any way of merit , i● most manifest out of Scripture .

1. The Prophet Habakkuk tells us plainly of him that seeks his Justification by his Works , that his soul which is lifted up , Hab. 2.4 . is not upright in him , but the just shall live by his faith . The same is insisted on by our Saviour , Joh. 3.36 . He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting Life ; and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life , but the wrath of God abideth on him . And St. Paul , quoting the Prophet , tells the Romans ; For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith , as it is written , Rom. 1.17 . the just shall live by faith . And again , Gal. 3.11 . to the Galatians , ●ut that no man is justified by the Law in the sight of God it is evident ; for the just shall live by faith : And again to the Hebrews , Now the just shall live by faith : What then is become of your grand confidence in good works ?

Our Saviour tells the woman diseased with an issue of blood , Matth. ● . that her Faith hath made her whole : And in the same Chapter , assures the blind men , because they believed that he was able to restore their eyes to them , that therefore they should see , and saying , according to your Faith be it unto you , their eyes were opened ; by this you may see the value that Faith hath in the esteem of God .

3. The Scripture expresly tells us , that Abraham believed in the Lord , Gen. 15.6 . Rom. 4. ● . and he counted it to him for righteousness : the same thing St. Paul repeats to the Romans & to the Galatians ; Gal. 3.6 . Jam. 2.22 . and so St. James ; by all which it is plain , that Faith is the only thing that justifies , and gives the reputation of righteousness before God .

4. We finde in St. Lukes Gospel , that our Saviour bids us to say , when we shall have done all things that are commanded us , that we are but unprofitable Servants , Luk. 11.43 we have done that which was our duty to do . What is become of your doctrine of works ? Where is your merit in them , by them , or for them ? when after you have done all things , fill'd the world with Hospitals , Colledges , Churches and Monasteries , given all your goods to the poor , mortified and macerated your bodies , you are yet so far from meriting , that you are but unprofitable Servants .

5. Our Saviour tells us clearly , and with a vertly , verily , I say unto you , he that heareth my word , Joh. 5.24 . and believeth on him that sent me hath everlasting life , and shall not come into condemnation , but is passed from death unto life : Can any thing be more plain then this , that by Faith alone we are to gain everlasting life ?

6. Charity it self is but a fruit of Faith , so that it is plain , Faith alone may suffice to our justification ; and our Saviour taketh frequently works for Hypocritical , and pronounceth a woe to such as depend upon them .

7. Then it is plain there neither is , or can be any such thing as good works , and whosoever pretends to that righteousnesse is a hypocrite ; for the Prophet Isaiah tels us , Isa. 54.6 . that we are all as an unclean thing , and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags : And again , the Scripture tels us , that there is not a righteous man upon the earth who does well , Eccl. 5. and sins not . And the Prophet David cryed out , Psalm . though a man after Gods own heart , Enter not into Judgement with thy servant , O Lord , for in thy fight shall no man living be justified : Where is then your Justification by works ? And St. Paul that great Vessel of Election , complains , Rom. 7.15.23 . that he was sold under sin ; for that which he did , he allowed not ; he did not what he would , but what he hated , that he did ; and that he saw another Law in his members , warring against the Law of his mind , and bringing him into captivity to the Law of sin , which was in his Members : what then must become of us poor creatures , if we confide in our own works ?

That Auricular Confession of Sins to a Priest is so farre from being a good work , and acceptable in the sight of God , that it is meerly to be esteemed Wil-worship , and humane invention , is proved thus .

It is plain out of the very Text , which you so much urge for your opinion , Joh. 20.23 . which is in St. John , Whosoevrr sins ye remit , they are remitted unto them , and whosoever sins ye retain , they are retained , That Christ commands nothing there concerning confession , but only requires Priests to give their absolution .

2. And St. James when he seems to command Confession , speaks only of a brotherly Confession , Confess your faults one to another : Jam. 5.16 . there is not a word of confession to Priests .

3. Then our Saviour said not to the woman taken in adultery , go and confess thy sins to a Priest , but go and sin no more .

4. Again , we read of Peters tears , and great repentance , how he wept most bitterly ; but we read not a jot of his going to confession , and yet his sin was most undoubtedly pardoned .

5. Then I have read in Ecclesiastical History , that Confession was in one Age wholly abrogated and forbidden in the Church .

That your Doctrine of satisfaction for sins , is most dangerous , if not desperate for Christian souls , is proved thus .

1. St. John the Baptist being sent to be a Preacher of Repentance to the people , taught only the observation of the Commandments of God , expresly forbidding them to do more , then what was appointed for them to do ; nor makes he mention at all , of any satisfaction for sins .

The Lord himself declares , by his holy Prophet Ezekiel , Luk. 3.13 . that if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed , and keep all his statutes , and do that which is lawfull and right ; Ezek. 18.21 . he shall surely live , he shall not die . Here is nothing imposed upon a penitent , but to do Judgement , and righteousness , &c. not the least word of satisfaction .

The Prophet Micah does most plainly deride all those that seek to make a satisfaction for their sins , Micah 6.6 . by pretended good works , in this Pathetical expostulation . Wherewith shall I come before the Lord , and bow my self before the high God ? Shall I come before him with burnt offerings , with Calves of a year old ? Will the Lord be pleased with thousands of Rams , or with ten thousands of Rivers of oyl ? Shall I give my first-born for my transgression , the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul ? Then the Prophet concludes immediately , He hath shewed thee , O man , what is good ; and what doth the Lord require of thee , but to do justly , and to love mercy , and to walk humbly with thy God ? What can be more evident then this , to shew , that God Almighty requires nothing of a sinner , but a faithfull returne to his Duty : Where is then your pitifull satisfaction ?

Our Saviour Jesus Christ did most sufficiently satisfie for our sins , by his own most bitter passion and death , as is abundantly clear in Scripture : nor was his precious Passion sufficient only to take away the sins of the whole world ; which ( it may be ) you will willingly grant ; but also to take away the pains and punishments due to us for them ; for the Prophet , I say , affirms it thus , surely he hath born our griefs , and carried our sorrows : Isai. 53.4 , 5. and again , he was wounded for our transgressions , he was bruised for our iniquities , the chastisement of our peace was upon him , and with his stripes we are healed . Thus it is plain , aswell the punishment of sin , as sin it self , was taken away by him , without any piece of our satisfaction required . And Jesus Christ , the great Physitian , he always makes a perfect cure of sin and punishment ; what need then is there of our satisfaction ?

That the Root and foundation of all these your doctrines is extreamly false , and that Man hath no free-will at all , is proved most plainly thus .

The Blessed Baptist assures us that man can receive nothing , except it be given hipe from Heaven . Saint James likewise tells us , John 3.27 . that every good gift , and every perfect gift , Jam. 1.17 . is from above , and cometh down from the Father of Lights , &c. Saint Paul yet more plainly , 2 Cor. 3.5 . that we are not sufficient of our selves to think any thing , as of our selves , but our sufficiency is of God . 1 Cor. 4.7 . And to the same Corinthians saith , What hast thou , that thou didst not receive ; now if thou didst receive it , why dost thou glory as if thou hadst not received it ? With the truth of all these Texts , how can your Doctrines of Free-Will stand ?

2. Rom. 9.19.16.18 . Isa. 63.17 . Jerem. 10.23 . Prov. 16.1 . Prov. 30. Again , Saint Paul to the Romans quctes the Words of the Lord to Moses : I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy , and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion ; & from thence draws an Argument himself against your Free-Will , to then it is not of him that willeth , nor of him that runneth , but of God that sheweth mercy ; Therefore he hath mercy on whom he will have mercy , and whom he will be hardneth . what now will become of your Free-Will .

The Phophet Isaiah expostulates somewhat strangly with God about this . O Lord why hast thou made us to erre from thy ways , and bardned our heart from thy fear . What can man do then with his Free-Will .

4th . The Prophet Jeremy declares it for a truth of his own knowledge : O Lord I know that the way of man is not in himself , it is not in man that walketh , to direct his steps . Solomon assures us likewise that the preparation of the heart in man , Jerem. 10.23 . Prov. 16.1 . Prov. 20.24 . and the answer of the Tongue is from the Lord ; and again , mans goings are of the Lord ; how can a man then understand his own way ? if he cannot understand it , he can sure left direct it .

The Prophet Isay , and S. Paul tells us , Isay 45.9 . Rom. 9.20 . that it is an extravagant thing , for the thing formed , to say to him that formed it , why hast thou made me thus ? and the Apostle in the same Chapter , says , that God of his free grace , and meer election saves some , and not for any thing of their works , or freewill , that is exprelly said in the Text , if it were not , it would however follow from reason , for otherwise grace would not be grace at all ; and then concludes as a foresaid , that it is not of him that willeth , nor of him that runneth , but of God that giveth mercy : what could be said more cleerly against your Churches doctrine ?

Our Saviour tells his Apostles , as three Evangelists do joyntly , and severally assure us , Mat. 10.19 . Mark 13.11 . Luke 12.11 . that they should take no thought how , or what they should speak , for it should be given them in the same hour what they should speak ; for said he again , it is not ye that speak , but the spirit of your father which speaketh in you : if then our ability be so short to speak , how much less must it be to do his will ?

S. Matthew again tells us in the same Chapter , Mat. 14.29 . how our Saviour argues the matter with them , are not two sparrows sold for a farthing ; and one of them shall not fall to the ground without your Father : if a Sparrow fall not without him , how shall a thought , word or action of ours ?

Our Saviour very positively concludes this point in S. Johns Gospel thus , John 6.44 . no man can come to me , except the Father which hath sent me draw him , and I will raise him up at the last day , what can poor we do then , with all the strength of our will , or works ? so I beseech the same Father to draw your Ladiship , and all erring Christians to himself .

This paper my Lady had no sooner read , but she sent a messenger with a letter back to Mrs. N. to thank her for the favour of her paper , and to assure her of the best satisfaction , she should be able to give to it , but cheifly to defire her for the future , to forbear Scholastick questions , least by their little skill in those nicities , they might before they were a ware , engage themselves in Blasphemy or Heresie . So Mrs. N. returned thanks to her Ladiship for her kind caution , and promised to avoid all speculative disputes , and to proceed upon things more morall and practicall , with which the Lady was satisfied , so fell to work upon the papers thus .

To what you alledge against our doctrine of goodworks , and for your justification by faith alone , I answer thus .
To the first .

We do humbly believe , acknowledge and profess , that the just must live by faith , for faith is the foundation of the spirituall building , Heb. 11. and the substance of all things hoped for ; as the Apostle tells us ; But what you do from thence gather , of your faith alone , is a meer tearing , and a falsifying of all those texts , out of the Prophets Apostles and Evangelists . For it is no where said , that the just shall live by faith alone . Now to believe truly in God , according to the received use of Scripture , is to adhere to him by love , and this our Divines call a formed faith , which can never be without charity , as S. Paul most amply explains to his Galatians . Gal. 5.6 . For in Jesus Christ saith he , neither circumcision , availeth any thing , nor uncircumcision , but faith which worketh by love . Here S. Paul assures us , that it is not every faith that is sufficient to justifie us , but onely that which worketh by love .

To the second .

You might be satisfied in this , by the answer before , but I shall adde , that such a faith , as that of the woman with the issue of blood , and of the blinde men in the Gospel , might obtain such a temporal benefit , as the curing both of the one and the other , I say , temporal benefits may be procured by an unformed faith , as the Romans and other Heathens have visibly found Gods blessings to follow them , for their many virtues , and this S. Paul intimates , when he tells the Hebrews , that by faith the Harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not , when she received the spies with peace , here was a good work too went along with her faith . Heb. 11.31 . Rom. 4. Heb. 11. And there is no doubt , but an unformed faith , accompanied with charity , humility , and devotion , may obtain by grace , a justification from sin ; and whosoever does believe in Jesus Christ that he can justifie a sinner , it shall be imputed to him for righteousness ; for without faith , it is impossible to please God .

To the third .

What you urge out of Genesis , S. Paul ; and S. James , is sufficiently explained , and answered by the foregoing words of the said S. James 5.21.22 . James , was not Abraham our father justified by works , when he had offered up Isaac his son upon the Altar ? seest thou how faith worketh with his works , and by works was faith made perfect , and in the verse immediately following that which you urge against us , he concludes , ye see there , how that by works a man is justified , Ver. 24. and not by faith onely : for as the body without the spirit is dead , so faith without works , is dead also .

To the fourth .

What you urge out of S. Lukes Gospel , is to be understood as the context shews , of servants , that do what they are commanded onely to do , and that is but their duty , and no thanks are due to them ; in like manner those that keep the commandments of God , do but their duties : our Saviour says nothing , by your favour , of those that observe the Evangelicall counsells , as the building of religious houses , giving our goods among the poor , or mortifying of our bodies , which you seem to draw into the same conclusion . Besides , as to the keeping of the commandements , do you think , the meaning of that text is , that there is no merit at all due to that : it cannot possibly be so understood , must the case be the same , between him that does his duty well , and him that does it not at all , for so it must be as you seem to understand it ; for at the worst they can be but unprofitable , and at the best you would have them be so too ; and this would not onely throw confusion into all divinity , but would be the destruction of all civil government , and humane conversation . It is true what our Saviour says , when we have done all that is required of us , we are unprofitable servants , that is to him whom we serve , we are unprofitable , what does the Almighty and infinite creator , get by the salvation of his creature , nothing can be added to him . But the text tells us not , that in so doing we are unprofitable to our selves , God forbid , for that would be to discourage all virtue , piety , and Christianity it self .

To the fifth .

I answer perfectly as to your first , for that text of S. John , cannot be understood of a bare beliefe , but such a one , as is accompanied with charity , for it is impossible , that a good faith , should be without it .

To the sixth .

I say you are most cleerly mistaken , for charity is not a fruit of faith , but a fruit of the spirit , as indeed faith it self , is no less , as S. Paul instructs the Galatians , Gal. 5.22 . The fruit of the spirit , is love , joy , peace , longsuffering , gentleness , goodness , faith , meekness , temperance , &c. And that our Saviour taxeth Pharisaicall works for Hypocritical , is granted , who planted all their Religion in Ceremonies , and neglected the weightier matters of the law , which were the true good works and always commanded , not censured by him . Besides our Saviour chargeth us expresly in these words , Mat. 5.16 . Let your light so shine before men , that they may see your good works , and glorifie your father which is in heaven .

To the seventh and last .

To what you alledge first out of the Prophet Isaiah , I answer , that the Prophet there speaks comparatively , between the righteousness of the Law , and that of the Gospel , for the legall purity compared to the Evangelicall , is impurity it self , as our righteousness compared to Gods , is no righteousness , so our Saviour tells us , Luke 18. Mat. 19.17 . that none is good but one , that is God , because our goodness compared to Gods goodness , is no goodness , is no goodness . To your next text I answer , that it onely infers , that there is none so righteous , but at sometimes sinnes , not that a man when he does well sins . Then to what you alledge out of the Psalms , it is very plain , that the prophet David begs of God that he would not judge him , according to his own divine righteousness , that is so absolutely pure , and without sin ; for so , saith he , Psal. 25.21 . no flesh living can be justified , for he saith in another Psalm , let integrity and uprightness preserve me , for I wait on thee . Last of all , to what you urge so hard out of S. Paul to the Romans , S. Paul himself answers in the beginning of the next Chapter ; There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus , who walk not after the flesh but after the spirit , for the law of the spirit of life , in Christ Jesus , hath made me free from the law of sin and death , that is both from sin , and the punishment of it ; Rom. 8. and so proceeds to shew , that though there be a repugnancy in the Law of the flesh , to the Law of the spirit , yet they that mind the things of the spirit shall be judged accordingly , and no sin imputed to them , which I conceive clean contrary to the sence that you would impose upon the Apostle .

Now Mrs. N. I must desire you to give me leave to follow my former method , and to return to you some Texts , that as I conceive do expresly conclude our Churches doctrine , which is that faith does not , nor can suffice without works , and that works are something in the sight of God , that is , meritorious of eternal life , by the grace of God accepting them , as it had before pleased to assist in the doing of them : All which I prove by these express Scriptures .

God commands Abraham to walk before him , and be perfect , Gen. 16. and he will be his exceeding great reward .

The Prophet Esay says of God , Isay 40.10 . Jer. 31.16 . Prov. 11.28 . that his reward is with him .

The Prophet Jeremy tells us thus , for thy work shall be rewarded , saith the Lord .

The wise King Solomon assures us , that the wicked worketh a deceitful work , but to him that soweth righteousness , shall be a sure reward .

The Lord recompence thy work , Ruth 2.12 . and a full reward begiven thee of the Lord God of Israel . Out of these and infinite more places in the old Scriptures , it is plain that God does promise and assure rewards to those that do well ; But the Evangelicall Scriptures are yet more full .

He that reapeth receiveth wages , Iohn 4.36 . and gathereth fruit unto life eternal ( that is man ) so that he that soweth ( that is God ) and he that reapeth may rejoyce together .

Our Saviour in his Sermon in the Mount , Mat. 5.12 . Luke 6.22.23 . to encourage his disciples against persecution , speaks plainly thus , Rejoyce , and be exceeding glad , for great is your reward in heaven ; in like manner S. Luke relates it , Blessed are ye when men shall hate you , persecute you , or reproch you for the son of mans sake , Rejoyce ye in that day , and leap for joy , for behold your reward is great in heaven , &c. Heer reward is plainly promised , now we know that reward , and merit are such relatives , that one cannot be understood without the other .

Not every one that saith unto me Lord , Mat. 7.21 . Lord , shall enter into the kingdome of heaven : but he that doth the will of my father which is in heaven . Thus cleer it is , that is not enough ●o believe in the Lord , that we may enter into life , but we must do his will .

Again , Mat. 10.42 . Whosoever shall give to drink to one of these little ones , a cup of cold water onely in the name of a disciple , verily I say unto you , be shall in no wise loose his reward . Yet again the same Gospel tells us , that all the labourers in the Lords vineyard were to receive their reward , Mat. 20.7 , 8 , 9. from the last unto the first , and so they did , every one their peny , and adds , whatsoever is right that shall ye receive , observe how the Lord makes the reward of mans works , a piece of his justice . The same S. Matthew still tells us , Mat. 19.17 . how our Saviour chargeth the young man in the Gospel , if he will enter into life , to keep the commandments , something therefore is to be done on our parts . But above all , the same Evangelist in another place quite states the question . Come ye blessed of my father , inherit the kingdome prepared for you from the foundation of the world , Mat. 25.34 , 35 , 36. for I was a hungry , and ye gave me meat , I was thirsty , and ye grve me drink , I was a stranger and ye took me in , naked and ye clothed me , I was sick and ye visited me , I was in prison and ye came unto me . Here our Saviour was pleased to instance in all the works of charity , to shew how they are all , and every one of them meritoriously accepted by him .

Does not S. John likewise plainly tell us , Iohn 5.28.29 . our Saviours express words , that those that are in their graves shall hear his voice , and shall come forth they that have done good unto the resurrection of life , and they that have done evil , unto the resurrection of damnation ; and again , you are my friends if ye keep my commandments ; can you yet think that there is nothing due to good works .

Will you hear what S. Paul tells you , that God will render to every man according to his deeds , Rom. 2.6 10. glory , honour and peace to every one that worketh good , &c. and then concludes , that not the hearers , but the doers of the Law shall be justified .

Again , 1 Cor. 3.8 . to the Corinthians he says , every man shall receive his own reward , according to his own labour , and in his second Epistle to the same Corinthians he tells them thus , 2 Cor. 5.10 . 1 Cor. 9.17 . For we must all appear before the judgement seat of Christ , that every one may receive the things done in his body , according to that he hath done , whether it be good or bad ; again , if I do this willingly , I have a reward , 1 Cor. 15 58. and at last concludes that great Chapter concerning the Resurrection ; Therefore my beloved brethren , be ye stedfast , unmoveable , always abounding in the work of the Lord , for as much as you know , that your labour is not in vain in the Lord .

The same Apostle forewarns the Galatians not to be deceived , Gal. 6.7 . God is not mocked , for what soever a man soweth , that shall he also reap .

The same Apostle prays heartily for the Collosians , Colos. 1.10 . Colos. 3.23.24 . that they might walk worthy of the Lord , unto all pleasing , being fruitfull in every good work ; and then afterwards tells them plainly , that whatsoever they do , they should do he artily as to the Lord , and not unto men , knowing that of the Lord they shall receive the reward of their inheritance , &c.

To the Hebrews he says plainly , Heb. 6.10 . For God is not unrighteous , to forget your work and labour of love , which you have shewed towards his name , Heb. 13.16 . in that ye have ministred to the Saints , and do minister ; and in another place adviseth them , that to do good and to communicate they forget not , for with such sacrifices , God is well pleased .

S. John in his second Epistle general adviseth all the world to look to themselves , 2 John ver. 8. that they loose not those things , which they have wrought , but that they receive a full reward .

S. Peter is no less cleer in this sense , 2 Pet. 1 10 , 11. as you may see by the Counsell general that he gives , wherefore the rather brethren give diligence to make your calling and election sure , for if ye do thus ye shall never fall , for so an entrance shall be ministred unto you abundantly , into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ . And then in his first Epistle , he exhorteth to an honest conversation &c. that the world may be convinced , by the good works which they shall behold , and glorifie God in the day of visitation .

Then that faith is utterly vain without works , James 2 14. ver. 17 , 18 , 19 , 20 , 21 , 24. see how throughly the blessed Apostle S. James delivers it ; What doth it profit my brethren though a man say he hath faith , and hath not works can faith save him ? then a little after tells us , that faith , if it hath not works , is dead being alone , then says the Apostle , I will shew my faith by my works , thou believest there is one God , thou doest well , the devils also believe and tremble , but wilt thou know O vain man , that faith without works is dead ? was not our father Abraham justified by works , &c. and after the Apostle had upon the matter , stated the whole question , he concludes , yee see then now that by works , a man is justified , and not by faith onely . Can any thing be more cleer then this ? yet see how S. Matthew justifies this doctrine , relating our Saviours last charge and Commission to his Apostles thus ; Mat. 28.19.20 . Go ye therfore and teach all nations , baptizing them in the name of the Father , and of the Son , and of the holy Ghost : teaching them not onely to believe , Johu 9.6.7 . but to do and observe all things , whatsoever I have commanded , &c. S. John relates how our Saviour would not cure the blinde man , with that omnipotent salve , the clay made of his spittle , but he would enjoyn him , to go and wash in the pool of Siloam , something he would have done on his part ; Then S. Paul assures us that if he hath faith to a perfection , nay so much as to remove mountains , and hath not charity , he is nothing , what then are we without it . Nay S. Paul teacheth Timothy how to press the matter , 1 Tim. 4. that they do good , that they be rich in good works , ready to distribute willing to communicate , laying up in store for themselves a good foundation , against the time to come , that they may lay hold on eternal life , &c. and concludes of himself , I have fought the good fight , I have perfected my course , I have kept the faith , from hence forward is laid up for me a crown of glory , which the Lord the just judge shall render to me in that day , here S. Paul cleerly expects from the justice of God , a retribution to his merit .

Now over and above all this , John 8. it is plain that faith it self is a work , for to the question that was asked our Saviour , What shall we do , to do the works of God , he answers presently , this is the work of God , to believe on him , whom he hath sent , and again , saith he , Gen. 15. if ye are the children of Abraham , you would do the works of Abraham , now the principal work of Abraham , was his faith , for Abraham believed , and it was accounted to him for righteousness , see faith is plainly to be reckoned up amongst works , now if a man by faith be to be justified , then he is so by works .

Last of all , what you seem in all your discourses to infer , that the best works are full of sin ; so by consequence cannot justifie : observe I beseech you what S. John says to you ; 1 John 3 7 , 8 , 9. little children let no man deceive you , he that doth righteousness , is righteous , even as he is righteous , he that committeth sin is of the devil &c. whosoever is born of God does not commit sin , for his seed remaineth in him , and he cannot sin , because he is born of God . Note here if you please , that he cannot sin , that follows the inclinations of charity , according to which a man is said to be born of God : For S. Paul assures us too , that charity does nothing amiss .

Thus if I have not darkned this truth , with too thick a cloud of witnesses , I presume it must be cleer as light it self , that your doctrine of onely faith , & depressing of good works is not onely against the whole stream of Scripture , and so unchristian , but also against all the rules of humane reason , so impertinent & unpolitick , to the destruction of all civil conversation : and therefore I am bold to insist the longer upon it , which I desire you to pardon , and I will make a speedy amends , in the contraction of my self upon the other heads .

To what you are pleased to alledge against our Auricular Cenfession , I answer thus .
To the first .

It is true , that in that Text of S. John there is no confession mentoned , but sufficiently , imply'd in the power of absolution . It is enough to satisfy any reasonable Christian , that our Saviour has so clearly declar'd that high power and prerogative , which he conferred upon his Priests , and to shew us our Physitions and remedy , that we may have recourse to them for our health , if we so please , but if we will not confess we are sick , we have no need of a Physition , at least he cannot be at all usefull to us . Now that use and practice of this high power and prerogative of remision of sins , the Church has learnt and derived , from the very times of the Apostles ; by the conduct of the holy Ghost , as you shall see more hereafter .

To the Second .

I must likewise grant S. Iames not precisely to determine in that Text , to whom we should confess , nor was it at all needfull , for it was to be presumed that no man would confess , but where he thought to finde a pardon , now that power of pardoning , was apparently in the Apostles hands then , and in their successors continues since . It was enough therefore for the Apostles to express so much , as was necessary to that great business of absolution , that is confession , without pointing out that particular person to whom to be made , indeed it is , as before , sufficiently implyed .

To the Third and fourth

I do acknowledge that our Saviour said no more to the woman taken in adultry , but go and sine no more , but there the power of absolution was not settled in the Church , how then could the adultress and the Magdalen and Peter be obliged to confession , before confession was instituted . Besides these were miraculous pardons of sins , not by any former prescription , for we know that the indulgence of a spirituall priviledge to any one , is not to be drawn into a consequence for others , or made a generall rule of , by us .

To the Last

I do utterly deny that confession was ever abrogated in any one age , something I remember in ecclesiasticall history , that publick and open confession was solemly forbiden , but never private , and auricular ; on the contrary give me leave to prove the necessity of it , by Scripture against you .

David confesseth his sins and is pardoned by the prophet Nathan . 2 Sam. 11.13 .

S. Mathew tells , how our Saviour enstated Peter in this power of the keys , the other Evangelists speaks of his disposing of it amongst his Apostles , by all which it is plain , that to deny the power of the keys to be given to the Church , is to deny that our Saviour never had them in his custody , which I take for blasphemy .

The text you urge out of S. James 5.16 . James , is alledged for our doctrine against you , by all our divines , as I am cold , I am sure it is cleer , as to me .

This great duty of a Christian , was absolutly taught and prefigured in the Baptisme of John , for S. Mat. 3.6 Mathew tells us how all the people round about flockt to him , And they were baptised of him in Jordan , confessing their sins .

The wise Solomon assures us that he that conceals his wickedness shall not be directed , Prov. 8. but he that confesseth it shall finde mercy .

That this duty of confession was both preached , and practised in the Apostles days , is plain by that express place , And the name of the Lord Jesus was maguified , Acts 19.28 . and many that belived came and confessed and shewed their deeds .

No less express is that text of S. John if we confess our sines , he is faithfull and just to forgive us our sins , and will cleanse us from all wickedness .

To figure out this great●duty of confession to us , our Saviour chargeth the Leper ; whom he cleansed , Mat. 8. to go and shew himself to the Preist , and offer the gift that Moses comanded . Luke 17. In the like manner he commanded the ten lepers , and says to Lazarus when he had raysed him from the dead , loose him and let him go . These things I say are cleer prefigurations , of this duty of confession , which was afterwards to be establisht , in the Christian Church , and has been ever since the Apostles times , most universally practised .

To what you alledge against our doctrine of Satisfaction for sins I answear thus .
To the first .

I do absolutly deny , Luke 3.11 . Mat. 3. that the Baptise taught no satisfaction , for he taught almes and works of mercy , for him that had two coats , to impart to him , that had none , and him that had meat to do likewise . They that came to him for batisme , were to confess their sins , as I said before , that according to their qualities , they might have several penitencies imposed upon them , Luke 3.8 . and therefore exhorts them to bring forth fruits worthy of repentance which fruits , are the works of satisfaction understood by us : by this it is plain , that the holy Baptist enjoynes us more then our duty : and besides those words which you quote , were spoken to the Publicans , whom he bids to exact no more than what was appointed them , you have strained the text hard to bring it to us , that we should do no more than we are commanded to do .

To the Second .

I answear , that the Prophet speaks there of the life of grace only , which to attain , if satisfaction be not performed before , it is required to be in purpose and intention , and is necessary to the preservation of that life of grace , when it is acquired . Besides , though there should be no mention at all of satisfaction in these words of the Prophet , that you quote , does it therefore follow that there is no such thing required , or that the prophet has deceived us , God forbid , for we finde , what is wanting in one place , abundantly supplied in other Scriptures , as heer the Prophet mentions nothing but justice , says not a word of fortitude , temperance , chastity &c. which we know are equally requisite , and su●iffiently laid down and commanded in other Scriptures .

To the Third .

I answer , that the Prophet Micah in those words you quote , does not seclude , but rather include works of satisfaction , for by doing judgement and justice is to be under stood a severe censure and condemnation of our selves , by loveing of mercy , are understood those works of mercy , almes and piety , that are to be exercised upon the poor , by charity , and to walk humbly with God , what is it but resignation of our selves to him , and perfect submission to his will , joyned with an exact care to keep his divine precepts , in this point of penance , we are req●ired to shew all the severity in the world against our selves , that we being judged of our selves , be not judged of the Lord , as the Apostle tells us . Besides the Prophet Micah there , rebukes not those , that go about by good works to sati●fy for their sins ; but those that foolishly thought , by their pittifull sacrifices , and burnt-offerings with the bloud of Rams and Bulls and Goats &c. to satisfy the divine wrath for sins .

Now that was impossible as S. Paul tells us , Heb. 10. Isay 1. and the Prophet Isay assures us , that those things were not in themselves acceptable to God .

To the Fourth and Last .

I do answer and grant , that the passion of Christ is sufficient to take away all sin , and the guilt of punishment , as well temporall , as eternall , it followes not therefore that nothing is required on our parts to be done ; for in the Sacrament of penance , we partake of the virtue of the passion of Christ , by a method of some proper acts , which are the mater of pennance , wherefore the Apostle Paul exhorts his penitents thus , not to yeild their members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin , but to yeeld themselves unto God , as those that are alive from the dead , and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God . Now to what you imply of argument in that Christ Jesus is the great Physition , and so likely to make a perfect , cure as well from guilt of the punishment , as from the guilt of the sin it self . I do acknowledge him to be the great Physition of our souls , and to cure perfectly as you say , yet very differently , Luke 4. and sometimes suddainly , and all at once , as Peters wifes mother , who was perfectly restored to perfect health , sometimes again he is pleased to cure very leasurely , as when he cured the blind man , first he was pleased to restore him to an inperfect use of his sight , Mar. 8. as to see men like trees walking , then he was pleased afterwards to perfect his cure , and make him to see cleerly all things ; just so he is pleased to pass his spiritual cures upon us , sometimes he is pleased to turn the heart of man , with such a power , that it shall presently enjoy a perfect spiritual health , as he did that of the blessed Magdalen ; sometimes again he remits the sin , by his operating grace , and afterwards works so with his cooperating grace , that in process of time , he takes away all the guilt of punishment , and all the other relicts of sin ; it is not therefore to be proved by any of Christs corporal , or spiritual cures , that the sin being remitted , all the punishment is remitted likewise , but rather the contrary , and I shall proceed further to prove it thus .

The Catholick doctrine that I am to prove now against you , is this , that sins being by contrition , confession and absolution perfectly forgiven , the penitent ought yet to satisfie for the temporal punishment due to them .

Adam without doubt repented himself of his sin , Gen. 2.17 . notwithstanding he was not presently absolved from the punishment that was threatned by God for it ; which was this , for in theday , that thou eatest thereof , thou shalt surely dye . Nay after the transgression of the divine precept , beyond the business of death , which was before threatned , God addes others , saying to Adam , Gen. 3.17 . because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife , and hast eaten of the tree , of which I commanded thee saying , thou shalt not eate of it , cursed is the ground for thy sake , in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life . Thornes also and Thistles shall it bring forth to thee &c. Gen. 3.16 . in the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread , till thou return unto the ground , for out af it wast thou taken , &c. Then he said unto the woman , I will greatly multiply thy sorrow , and thy conception , in sorrow shalt thou bring forth children , and thy desire shall be to thy husband , and he shall rule over thee , &c. Rom. 5. and as in Adam all sinned so all in him are to die , as the Apostle tells us . Therefore it is plain , that though the guilt of original sin be taken away by repentance , and baptisme it self , there remains still a punishment of death , and divers other penalties inflicted .

Mariam the sister of Moses , Num. 12 after the sin o murmuring against Moses was committed , was struck with a Leprosie , but she was not presently cured , no not by Moses his prayer to the Lord for her recovery , but she was cast out of the Tents , by the Lords command , for seven days , for the punishment of her sin , though the guilt was forgiven her , and she remained all that while in her Leprosie .

God forbid Moses and Aaron , Num. 20 the going in , and leading of their people with them into the land of Promise , for their sin of unbelief , at the water of Strife , though without doubt God Almighty had forgiven the sin to those holy men .

So the sons of Jacob , Gen. 41.21 . for their offence committed against their brother Joseph , conceived what they suffered to be very due to them ; and David after he had confest his sin of adultery and murder , 2 Sam. 12.13 , 14 , 15. and was pardoned by the Prophet Nathan in these words , the Lord also hath put away thy sin , thou shalt not dye : yet addes , howbeit because by this deed thou hast given great oncasion to the enemies of the Lord , to blaspheme , the childe also that is born unto thee , shall surely dye , and the Lord strake the childe , that Vriahs wife bare , &c.

See the punishment of Eli and his house , after the sin was pardoned . 1 Sam. 3 12 , 13 , 14. In that day I will perform against Eli all things which I have spoken concerning his house , when I begin , I will also make an end , for I have told him , that I will judge his house forever , for the iniquity which he knoweth , because his sons made themselves vile , and he resprained them not , and therefore I have sworn unto the house of Eli , 1 Sam. 4.14 . &c. that the iniquity of Eli's house shall not be purged with sacrifice , nor offering for ever . All this must undoubtedly be understood of a temporal punishment onely ; accordingly Hophni and Phinehas were slain , Eli falling backward , brake his neck , and Phinehas's wife dyed in travell .

David we know had his great sin pardoned him for numbring of the people , 2 Sam. 24.18 . &c. yet he was punished with a most grievous pestilence , to the destruction of so many thousands , and yet at last was commanded by the Prophet Gad , to make a further satisfaction , to reare an altar unto the Lord in the threshing-floor of Araunah , &c. and his offering cost him fifty shekels of filver .

We finde that the Ninivites at their grand repentance , fasted , and put on sackcloth , Jonah 3.1 Kings 21.27 . Ahabrent his clothes , and put sackloth upon his flesh , and fasted , and lay in sackeloth and went softly , by which humbling of himself he did in part , satisfie and pacifie the divine wrath conceived against him . Jerem. 18.8 . This the Prophet Jeremy most cleerly expresseth , saying in the person of God , if that nation against whom I have pronounced , turn from their evill , I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them , and according to the measure of the fault , so ought the measure of the punishment to be , as we read in the book of Deuteronomy . Deut. 25 All this is clearly confirmed by S. John in his Apocalypse , saying , how much she hath glorified herself , and lived deliciously , Revel. 18 7. John 5.14 . so much torment and sorrow shall be given her , but above all we finde it cleer in the Gospel , where our Saviour after he had cured the man that was sick of the Palsie eight and thirty years he said unto him , behold thou art whole sin no more , least a worse thing come unto thee , plainly intimating , that this great and long infirmity , was inflicted upon him for his sins , and though those sins were probably pardoned before , by the great mercy of God , and patience of the person suffering , yet the punishment lasted still upon him .

Now that prayer , fasting , and alms , which are injoyned to penitents , are necessary to the Sacrament of Penance , appears plainly by these Scriptures .

We finde in Leviticus how God commands several sorts of Sacrifices to be offered for the sins of the Priests , Levit. 4.5.6 . Prince and People . I pray you then observe how the Prophets call upon us for these duties , therefore also now saith the Lord , turn ye even to me with all your heart , and with fasting and with weeping , and with mourning . So the Prophet Joel . Then the Prophet Daniel says , more cleerly yet to Nebuchadnexzar , wherefore O King let my counsell be acceptable unto thee , and break off thy sins by righteousness , and thine iniquities by shewing of mercy to the poor , it may be a lengthening of thy tranquillity &c. We finde again how the Ninivites repenting at the preaching of Jonas proclaimed a fast , and put on Sack-cloth , from the greatest even to the lest of them . The King himselfe arose from his throne , layed by his Robe , and covered himself with sack-cloth and sat in ashes , crying all mightyly unto God , and turning from their evill ways , and the violence in their hands . And God saw their works that they turned from their evill way , and God repented of the evill &c. is not here a plain fatisfaction performed by the Ninnivites , and so accepted by God , and as cleerly exprest by the Prophet ? and is not this repentance , and satisfaction of the Ninivites highly commended by our blessed Saviour ? saying the men of Ninnive shall rise up in the judgement with the men of this generation ( that is obstenate impenitent siners , Luke 11.32 . such as refuse to satisfie for their sins ) and shall condemn it , for they repented at the preaching of Jonas &c.

That great preacher of repentance , Mat. 3. Lxke 3. the holy Baptist , crys out to bring forth fruits worthy of repentance : does not our Saviour plainly pronounce a woe unto Chorazin and Bethsaida for their impenitence ? Mat. 11.21 , 22. assuring them that if those mighty works he did there , had been done in Tyre and Sidon , they would have repented long agoe in sackcloth and ashes , and therefore concludes , that it shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon in the day of judgement , then for them , and in another place tells them , that unless they repent , Luke 15. they shall all likewise perish , as those upon whom the tower of Siloam fell , and to conclude all this , least I again endanger to bring an obscurity upon this truth , by too great a cloud of witnesses appearing for it , S. Paul exhorts us all to approve our selves as the Ministers of God , in patience , 2 Cer. 6.4.5 . in watching , and in fastings , so I presume you will not still deny , that satisfaction is very requsite nay necessary to a perfect penitent .

To what you alledge against the doctrine of our Church , in point of the Liberty of the will , I answer thus .
To the first .

I answer , by granting that all good comes from God , the donor , but some of those good things he gives , through the action of our free-will , and others he gives cleerly without it . So we humbly confess our merits to be the gifts of God , and given by God , preventing cooperating , and following us , in all our thoughts , words and actions , but this does not at all follow , that therefore our freewill cannot actively concurre , to make a merit .

To the Second and Third .

I say in like maner , that God of his great mercy prevents our freewills , by moving them and mercifully cooperates assisting them , and our Church prays , Prevent us O Lord in all our actions , &c. so that when people do sin , God Almighty cannot be made to be the Author of the sin , or errour , and when we read , the text you urge , thou hast made us to erre , it is to be understood , thou hast suffered us so to do ; or that thou hast hardned , it is to be understood , thou hast permitted our hearts to be hardned , and by this the activity of the free-will is so far from being hindred , or deprived , that is plainly implied and proved .

To the fourth .

I must most cleerly acknowledge with the Prophet , that the way of a man is not in himself , as to the executions of all his elections , in which whether he will or no , he may be many ways hindred , but the elections themselves , are in man , with the supposition of divine help , and therefore mans will is said to be free , not of his actions , but action , which consists in his judgement , and his determination to do , or not to do .

To the fifth .

I confess it to be an extravagant thing , for a man to rebell against , or expostulate with his Creator , as for any thing formed to do the same thing , with or against the workman , that formed it , or an instrument with the Artificer , for every creature is an instrument of the divine power , but by all this I cannot see , how the liberty of mans actions in a concurrence with the Creator , is at all infringed , but seems to me rather confirmed , the Creator making the Creature instrumentally to cooperate with him .

To the sixth .

What our Saviour there adviseth , not to take thought how , or what to speak , for it should be given in the same hour &c. was only to take away all anixiety , and solicitude of fore thniking . Now the case of the Apostles knowledge , and ours are very different , for theirs was altogether infused , and their freewill was meerly passive , in the execution of divine dictats , it is to be understood far otherwise with us , who are bound by our good works , freely to cooperate with divine grace .

To the seventh .

I humbly conceive that text of the falling of sparows , not to concern the matter of free will at all : but only that our Saviour , would have us cleerly to understand , and beleive , how all things are Subject to the providence of God .

To the eighth and Last

We must grant that there is no man saved but by grace , not by his works , excluding grace , because works signify nothing without grace . For as S. Paul tells us , Rom. 8. the sufferings of this present world are nothing to the future glory , that shall he revealed in us . And to that text , that none can come to him , unless the father draw him , we do acknowledge , that there must be such a drawing , by the divine grace , preventing , and coopperating but how to acquiesce in , and submit to , that divine drawing , and not to harden our hearts , against his divine drawing , nor to shut our ears , if we mean for to hear his voice calling to us , that is the part of our own free-wills . So I beseech you good Mirs . N. to have a care least you be found resisting to those divine ealls , and attractions , which his divine grace is always offering to you , and consult with those cleer texts of Scripture , that I shall here recommend to you .

We finde the Lord saying to Cain , Gen. 4.6 . why art thou wroth ? and why is thy countenance fallen ; if thou do well shalt thou not be accepted and if thou doest not well , sin lieth at the door &c. does not our Lord , her cleerly convince Cain of his freewill .

How more plainly yet does God Almighty expostulate with the Isralites and require their obedience to his law , Deut. 30.10 , 11 , 12 , 13 , 14 , 15. and the freedomes of their wills . For this commandment saith he which I command thee this day , is not hidden from thee , neither is it far off , it is not in heaven that thou shouldst say who shall go up for us &c. neither is it beyond the Sea &c. But that word is very nigh unto thee , in thy mouth , and in thy heart , that thou mayst do it . See I have set before thee this day : life and good , and death and evill &c. can any thing be cleerer for the liberty of mans will ; The Prophet Jeremy tells us , Jerm. 5. that these which remain of this last and worst generation , shall chuse death rather than life .

There is choice given to the Jews whether they will serve the Lord , Josh. 24.15.21 . 2 Sam. 24.13 . Num. 30 or no , and the people said nay but we will serve the Lord .

There was a choyce given to David , which of the three plagues he would have .

There was a choyce given to the husband in the old law concerning the vow of his wife , now there can be no choyce at all , without liberty of will .

Job tells us , Job 5. Numb . Deut. Psal. 107 108 , 118 that the righteous shall be saved but in the cleaness of his own hands . How much do we read of the freewill offerings in the old Testament ? and David declares that he will freely sacrifice to the Lord , again , my soul O Lord is always in my hands , my heart is ready , O Lord my heart is ready , and nothing more frequent than such expressions clean throughout the Psalmes .

The Prophet Isay yet more largely speaks to this purpose , Isay 1.16 . v. 19. wash ye , make ye clean put away the evill of your doings from before mine eyes , cease to do evill &c. and then presently after , if ye be willing and obedient ye shall eat the good of the Land but if ye refuse and rebell , Isay 46.12 . ye shall be devoured with the Sword &c. and again , hearken unto me ye stout hearted , that are far from righteousness &c.

The Prophet Ezekiel declares , Ezek. 18.27.28.30 . that when a wicked man turnes away from his wickedness that he hath committed & doth that which is lawfull and right , he shall save his soul alive &c.

Therefore , Ezek. 18.31.32 . I will judge you O house of Israel every one according to his ways &c. Repent and turn your selves from your transgressions , so iniquity shall not be your ruin , cast away from you all your transgressions , whereby ye have transgressed and make you a new heart and a new spirit : for why will you dy O house of Israel . For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dyeth , saith the Lord God , wherefore turn your selves and live ye , does not God Almighty heer plainly require the operation of his peoples wills towards their own good , and this sence runes at large , through all the Prophets calling us to turn to our God , and then assuring us , that he will turn to us .

But the new Testament is yet more full of this sence . Mat. 23.37 . Luke 13.34 . Mat. 11. Our Saviour in those bleeding words , he utters over Jerusalem , speaks it out thus . O Jerusalem , Jerusalem , thou that killest the Prophets and stonest them that are sent unto thee : how often would I have gathered thy childeren together even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings , and ye would not &c. Heer it is plain , that God was willing , man onely unwilling , and resisting to his own ruin . Our Saviour adviseth freequently , that if we would enter into life , we must keep the commandements : and such like expressions are abounding in the gospells , but in the parable of the Talents , Mat. 25.16.17 . when he that had received five Talents , went and traded with the same , and made them other five Talents , and so he that had two did likewise , now the servant could not be said to gain , unless his freewill had actively concurred to the gaining of them , other wise he should only have said , that he had received his ten Talents .

S. Paul speaks it plainly to the Corinthians I have planted , 1 Cor. 3.6 , 7 , 8. and Apollo watered , but God gave the increase , but heer is a working still with God nay the Apostle expresseth it in the next verses , for we are labourers together with God . And every man shall recieve his own reward , according to his own labour &c. and this doctrine he perfectly explaines in the other Chapter where he tells them , 1 Cor. 15 10. that the grace which was bestowed on him , was not in vain , but that he laboured more abundantly then they all , and yet not he but the grace of God which was with him , so then grace may very well cooporate with the freewill of man . Nay yet more punctually the Apostle professeth this great truth , 1 Cor. 7.37 . in another chapter of the same epistle . Nevertheless he that standeth stedfast in his heart , haveing no necessity , but hath power over his own will and hath so decreed in his heart , that he will keep his virgin , doth well . &c.

S. John S. Iames S. Jude S. Peter , 1 John 2.3 . 1 Pet. 1.22 , &c. and all the rest of Apostolicall writtings , are full of nothing more than , perswasions to a good life , to turn from sine , to purify our selves , as he is pure , to be righteous as he is righteous , now to what purpose were all this , if man had not a power to cooperate with divine grace , by the freedome of his will .

To conclude all , 2 Tim. 3.16 , 17. S. Paul tells us that all Scripture is given by inspiration of God , and is profitable for doctrine for reprofe , for correction , for instruction in righteousness , that the man of God may be perfect , throughly furnisht to all good works . Now if all our actions be by necessity , and constraint , to what purpose is it to teach , reprove , correct , or instruct ? if a man have not some liberty of will , how should he be furnisht to all good works , Phil. 14. and the same Apostle tells Philemon that he would advise him nothing against his consent that his benefit should not be as it were of necessity , but willingly , I could produce infinite testimonies more to establish this truth , but I fear I have been too large already , in a business that common sense it self me thinks were able to convince , for if all things do come to us by an absolute necessity , and our wills have no power of action , there will be nothing lest to be done by the power of prayers , preachings , counsels , publick governments : There would be no rewards due to virtue , or punishment to vice ; all Laws , Statutes , Orders , Precepts , must be to no purpose , all admonitions , reproofes , persaw asions must cease , for all these require a liberty to be understood , and are utterly nullified by a necessity ; and in short , it would amount to this , that all wickednesses , blasphemies , and villanies would be cast upon God . For who can justly tax Judas of his wicked treasons , if he did commit it by an inevitable necessity ? But these are the most difficult questions , that we can pick out of the whole body of Divinity , so I shall be bold to desire you , good Mrs. N. not to offer any more of these subtilties to me , and though in order to your commands , I have endeavoured to satisfie your doubts , yet I must tell you , that it hath been full sore against my will , and if I have by this bold adventure committed any errours , as I fear I have too many , I do humbly beg God , and his holy Church to pardon me .

This Paper was no sooner perfected , but my Lady called for her Coach , where her Ladiship was no sooner sat , and the welcome of the house presented , but they thus fell into their old discourse : and my Lady began after this manner .

Lady M.

I am come now dear Mrs. N. to wait on you , and to make you a double payment , first , for your late kinde visits , which have not lyen in my power since to return , then to make a payment of the thanks , & best satisfaction that lay within my power , for your last too learned paper ; though sweet Mrs N. I must beg your pardon , if I never do the like again , for in earnest it is too hard a task for us , to ingage in those sublime points , that the learnedst Doctors in the world of one side or t'other , may be foiled in , and sure we that cannot swim as those divine Doctors can , must not dare to wade in those unfathomable depths .

Mrs. N.

I most heartily thank you , sweet Madame , for your kinde correction of me in this particular , and I faithfully promise , never to offend in that more . And truly Madame , if I had read your first paper before I had sent my last , I had not given your Ladiship any further trouble at all , for indeed I have perceived enough by that to convince me of some errours , that I was before possest of , the one was that you Papists especially women and Lay people , were not at all conversant in Scripture , the second was , that you did over vilifie our translations , and would be judged onely by your own editions of Scripture , which we are informed are false , and framed onely to your own intents and purposes , but I finde your Ladiship quotes no Scripture , that is not word for word in our Bibles . Then thirdly , I am already satisfied that you have more reason for your Religion , then I before immagined , if those Scriptures which you produce , have had such an understanding in the universal Church as you alledge : and Lastly , that it will be utterly impossible for us to make an end of the controversie , without some learned Moderator , for otherwise it will be , but your sense upon Scripture and mine , and we both abounding in our own , as it is too much given to us women to be , I am in dispair of the good end , Madame , that I proposed .

Lady M.

For the first three things , that you pretend to be satisfied in , I cannot believe , dear Mrs. N. but you dispose your self rather to Rallery then to deal really with me : but as for the last I do most cleeply concur with you in opinion , that it will be necessary for us , to have some Learned Arbitrator , or otherwise we shall but beat the air , and bring nothing to conclusion .

Mrs. N.

Why then deer Madame , how shall we agree in the choice of him , for it is neither fit for your Ladiship , nor for me alone to have the nomination , and it will be very difficult to finde one , that may be so indifferent , as to please us both .

Lady M.

Why truly your self , Mrs. N. if you please , shall make the choise , and for my part I think none fitter than your own husband , if he please to accept the trouble , for I take him to be a very learned , prudent , and impartial person , thourgh by his profession he may appear engaged against us ; but I am confident , that will not so much over by ass his judgement , as to say a malicious untruth .

Mrs. N.

Well then since your Ladiship is pleased to offer so fair in that particular , I must tell you yet a further difficulty , that occurs to me , whether I should make a present rejoynder with your Ladiships replys ( for that is I perceive your intended method ) or proceed still to object , & refer all my answers to your Ladiships replies till the very last , for though the the first will be more to your Ladiships present satisfaction , yet the bestwill a void much of both our trouble , for I humbly conceive , I shall be able to wipe off many of your Ladiships arguments , upon several occasions , with one compendious answer .

Lady M.

In that do as you shall please , good Mrs. M. for either shall be indifferent to me .

Mrs. N.

Why then sweet Madame , I shall proceed to object against some of the most practical points of your Religion , as your Ladiship hath required me , avoiding all subtilties , relating to the Schools , and so I have accordingly prepared another paper for your Ladiships view , and I shall not be bold to offer above one , or two more , and then I shall endeavour to rejoyn , and humbly refer to better judgements .

So after many mutual thanks and particular kindnesses were passed on both sides , my Lady being attended by Mrs. N. to her Coach , departed away with her third paper , which coming home and opening , her Ladiship found to this effect as followeth .

That your Church has so overladen the souls of Christians with their own Traditions , and humane constitutions , that it has not only abridg'd Christian liberty , but hardly left room for the observation of divine precepts , I prove thus by express Scriptures .

We finde in Deuteronomy , Deut. 4.2 how God does absolutly command his people by the mouth of his servant Moses , not to add unto the word , Josh. 1.7 . which he commanded them , nor to diminish ought from it . The like was commanded by the mouth of Joshuah , that from that law , which they had read , they should not turn neither to the right nor to the left . The wise King Solomon gives the same caution , Prov. 30.5.6 . every word of God is pure &c. and then proceeds , Adde thou not unto his words , least he reprove thee , and thou be found a liar , and S. John assures us , That if any man shall adde unto the words of his prophecy , Revel. 22 18.19 . that God shall adde unto him the plagues that are written in that book , and if any shall take away &c. God shall take away his part out of the book of life , and yet notwithstanding these clear commands , and terrible threatnings , your Church dares to do those things daily , by ading of meer humane inventions .

S. Mark 7.6 , 7 , 8 , 9. Mark tells us plainly , how our Saviour did severely rebuke that kind of Religion , and professeth plainly , that in vain such do worship him , who teach for doctrines the commandments of men , saying immediately before , how such do honour him with their lips , but their heart is far from him , and so proceeds sharply inveighing against mens Traditions , yet your Church does nothing but over-load men with them .

3. S. Paul give a most strict warning to the Corinthians and so to us , 1 Cor. 7.22.23 . to avoid any captivity of that kinde , for he speaks to all that are called ; who are the Lords freemen , and therefore concludes , ye are bought with a price , be not ye the seruants of men , that captivity I am sure none can avoid that is of your Church .

4. Gal. 5.18 . Again he tells the Gallatians yet more plainly , that if they be led of the spirit , they are not under the law , so then we Christians , are subject to no humane constitutions whatsoever .

5. Again the same Apostle tells us , 1 Tim. 1.9 . that the Law is not made for a righteous man , but for the lawless , disobedient , ungodly , &c. what then are good Christians concerned in your new-fangled Laws ? and again he tells the Romans , that the Law worketh worth , Rom. 4.15 . what then have we Christians to do with it ?

6. Lastly , 2 Cor. 3.17 . the same Apostle assures the Corinthians that where the spirit of the Lord is , there is liberty , and largely relates to the Gallathians , how Jesus Christ did purchase this liberty for us , Gal. 4. and that we are no more under the law , nor sons of the Bond woman but of the free , why then should your Church , by its devises , endeavour to reduce us into bondage again ?

That amongst the rest of your new inventions your commanded days of fasts , and abstinence , especially a whole lent together , is a burthen insupportable , and abusive to our Christian liberty , I prove by Scripture thus .

1. Does not our Saviour in S. Matthews Gospel , call the multitude expresly about him , Mat. 15.10 , 11. to teach them this piece of doctrine , and bids them hear and understand , not that which goeth into the mouth , defileth a man , but that which cometh out of the mouth , this defileth a man &c. why does your Church then , tye up mens mouths from meat at any time ?

2. 1 Tim. 4.1 , 2 , 3 , 4 , 5. S. Paul tells us , that now the speaketh expresly , that in the latter times , some should depart from the faith , giving heed to seducing spirits , and doctrines of Devils , speaking lies &c. forbidding to marry , and commanding to abstain from meats , which God hath created , to be received with thanksgivings , of them which believe , and know the truth ; for every creature of God is good , and nothing to be refused , if it be received with thanksgiving , for it is sanctified by the word of God , and prayer . Heer the Apostle plainly calls it a doctrine of Devils , and meer lies , to command abstinence from any meat which God has created for the use of the faithful , to be taken with thanksgiving .

3. Tit. 1.14 15. Does not the same Apostle forewarne us , not to give heed to such doctrines as those , which he calls the commandements of men , that turn from the truth , and gives this reason that unto the pure , all things are pure , but unto them that are defiled , and unbeleiving , is nothing pure &c. How dares your Church then impute iniquity to any thing of meat , or make such a distinction between meats , as you do .

4. Colos. 2.16 , 17. Does he not command the Colossians thus . Let no man therefore judge you in meat or in drink , or in respect of a holy day , or of the new moon , or of the sabbath days , which are but a shadow of things to come &c. yet you are pleased to make your ceremonies , to be the very substance of your Religion .

5. Again he tells the Romans thus , Rom 9. If by the Spirit , you shall mortify the deeds of the flesh , ye shall live , he says nothing of mortification by fasting , therefore that must be , purely your invention .

6. Lastly we may say to you , as S. Acts 15.10 . Peter in the Acts , why tempt you God , to put a yoake upon the neck of the Disciples , which neither we , nor our Fathers were able to hear ; Christian liberty endures no such burthensome bondage , for Christ himself never made any distinction of meats or commanded any such observations , why then should Christians , his faithfull people be subject to them .

That your making and observing of v●●s , especially of chastity and single life , though in your Priests themselves , is another intolerable abuse and burthen laid upon Christianity , I prove thus .

1. It is plain , that Jesus Christ our Saviour bestowed a freedome upon us , which we call Christian , Deut. 4.2 . Revel. 22 18. &c. why should vows then reduce us into bondage , Nay our Saviour cleerly shewed that he would have all his counsels free , and yet your votaries make them necessary as commandments , These vows therefore , are those humane inventions so much spoken of forbiden and reproved in Scripture , by consequence most unlawfull .

S. Paul forewarns Timothy from all those externall works of piety , which are not capable to renew a man , but are fit rather to make men hypocrites , than saints , and in such words as seem almost pointed at old Nuns , 1 Tim. 4.7 , 8. But pr●fain and old wives fables refuse , excercising thy self rather unto Godliness , for bodily exercise profiteth litle but godliness is profitable unto all things , having promise of the life that is now , and of that which is to come : by this it is plain that it is the exercise of the soul , which God deligheth in , and not those vowed bodily observancies .

3. Nay all those external works must of necessity be enemies to Christianity , for they extinguish faith , weaken hope , and cause men to repose their confidence in them , more then in the mercies of God : and it is plain that your late votaries , like those old Pharisees , that our Saviour reproves ; do value more such empty traditions , then they do the commandments of God , to whom he pronounceth a woe for no other reason , Luke 11.42 . &c. but for tything of Mint , Rue , and all maner of herbs , and passing ore judgement , and the love of God , &c.

4. Over and above all this the grand presumption of your votaries appears in oblieging themselves to a straiter rule of liveing , than the Evangellicall rule , to which every faithful Christian is tyed in Baptisme when it is plain , that by all the endeavours that a Christian can use , he cannot attain to a greater perfection , and very hardly perform so much as is required .

Then as to your vows of chastity , and restraining of Priests from marriage , I prove the absurdity of all that thus .

1. First it is plain by the old Testament , that the Priests , Gen. 1. & 2. of the old Law might marry and had wives , then the Greeks and divers other Christians , ever had , and shall have their wives .

2. Your vows of Chastity , and restraints , from marriage , are most plain oppositions to a divine precept , which God so often inculcated into all creatures , and particularly to man , be ye fruithful and multiply .

3. S. Paul foretells , that in the latter times , 1 Tim. ● . 1 , 2 , 3. some shall depart from the faith , giving heed to seducing spirits , and doctrines of devils &c. forbiding to marry &c. who should this be but , you , for no other Churches else does it .

4. Tit. 1.5.6 . The same Apostle commands Titus , that amongst the rest of the things , which he was to set in order , as he had appointed him , he should ordain a Bishop the busband of one wife , and having faithful children , by which it is plain that Priests might marry then .

5. 1 Cor. 7.9 . Chastity is , and ought to be free , but your vows , and invented traditions make it to be necessary , notwithstanding that S. Paul says plainly , that it is better to marry then to burn , and bids all men if they cannot contain themselves , to marry .

6. 1 Cor. 7.28 . And a little after in the same Chapter , he says positively to all ; but and if thou marry thou hast not sinned , and if a virgin marry she hath not sinned &c. and your Church is pleased to make it worse than the breach of a commandment .

7. In fine there can be nothing more cleer , than that vows of virginity are vain and in plain English foolish , because impossible ; it were the same thing to obliege a man to live without meat or drink ; and your Pope pretends by his humane traditions , to mortifie mens flesh , when it is impossiple to do that without a constant recourse , to the grace of God .

But abive all the Abuse of your Church it manafest in multiplying of Sacraments , and making them out of meer humane constitutions , which I prove in short thus .

1. All Sacraments ought to be of our Saviour Christs own institution , but your supernumerary Sacraments , are after constitutions of the Church , therefore they cannot be Sacraments .

2. As for your Sacrament of Penance , I have shewed sufficiently already in my last paper , upon those two parts of it , confession and satisfaction , which being proved to be impertinent , your Sacrament of Penance must needs fall .

3. Then for your Sacrament of Orders ; and confirmation , it is plain that there was nothing of them instituted by Christ , but constitutions of the Church afterwards established them , how thou can they be reputed Sacraments ?

4. For matrimony , there can be no pretence to make it a Sacrament , ( but out of a few mistaken words of S. Paul , Ephes. 5.32 . who had no power to make a Sacrament neither ) for when he says marriage is a great Mystery , you read as I am informed , that it is a great Sacrament ; nor does the Apostle say absolutely ; that it is of it self a great mystery or Sacrament , but onely in relation to what it signifies between Christ , and his Church .

5. Then last of all , for your extreme Unction , there is a less pretence , James 5.14.15 . for first , at most there can be but an Apostolical authority for that , & no Apostle as I said before , had power to institute a Sacrament , besides there is a great dispute , amongst the learned , about the authority of that Epistle , and some very principal persons , have agreed , that it should be thrust out of the Canon of the Bible .

Thus have I been bold to make it the business of this paper , to shew you , how your Church abuseth you with their own inventions , and would obtrude them upon us , for divine institutions .

To what you alledge against our Church for over lading the souls of Christians , with Traditions , and humane corstitutions &c. I answer thus
To the first .

I acknowldedge it to be , as you say , both wicked and damnable , to add any thing to , or diminish from Scripture , that is of the essence , and being of Scripture , or shall go about to corrupt , or deprave it ; otherwise if the Church , or any civil power shall promote any thing , that is not literally there , so it be but consequentially it is enough , or if it be to advance , what is commanded or consulted of in Scripture , Now all the Churches constitutions , even those you most tax , though they are not expresly and in proper forme to be found in Scripture , yet they are all cleer emanations from thence , as I shall plainly prove heerafter . Again that Text you quote out of the Proverbs cleers all the rest , Prov. 30.5.6 . add not unto his words least thou be found a lier , so it is not every simple addition that is forbidden , but only such as is false and lying , that is either to the corruption , or adulteration of the Text.

To the Second .

It is plain that our Saviour does not there in that Gospell , reprove all Traditions of men absolutly , but only such as they made contrary to the law of God , or such as swerved from it , for so we finde by the context of the same chapter , Mark 7.8 , 9. as for laying aside the commandment of God hold the tradition of men , &c. and then agin fullwell you reject the commandments of God that ye may keep your own tradition in the same maner S. Mathew delivers it , Mat. 13. which two Gospells S. Paul sufficiently explains thus , not giving beed to Jewish fables , 1 Tit. 14 and commandments of men that turn , from the truth , so it must be onely such as those , that our Saviour findes fault withall , and not simply all humane constitutions . And hence it is that the woes of eternal damnation are threatued by God , and pronounced by the Prophet , against the makers of such wicked constitutions and traditions , Isay 10.1.2 . in these words . Woe unto them that decree unrighteous decrees , and that write grievousness which they have prescribed , to turn aside the needy from judgement , and to take away the right from the poor of my people , and that they may rob the fatherless &c. But this makes nothing at all to your purpose , for the constitutions of our Church , are so far from being guilty of that , that they are acknowledged by all temperate persons to be the greatest promoters and advancers of divine worship , the greatest restrainer of the concupiscencies of the flesh , and do dispose men to the keeping of Gods commandments a more expeditious and cleer way , inflaming all men to brotherly kindness , and charity .

To the Third .

S. Paul it is true forbids us , to be servants of men , that is as you will finde by the context , not to make schismes in the Church , by pretending to follow some leading men , for one to say . I am of Cephas , and another , I am of Apollo ; this is to rebuke an error of yours , and nothing at all of ours , for we endeavour to keep our selves within the bonds of Catholike unity , and you do all you can to break those bands , and fall into the captivity of private opinions , by rendering your selves servants , nay slaves to some single Doctors of your own , that best agree with your fancy , but you had best take heed of that according to S. Pauls warning , which you urge heer against us .

To the fourth .

What the Apostle tells the Gallatians , that they which are led of the Spirit , are not under the Law , we acknowledge , but it is to be understood that he speaks of the Mosaicall and coercive Law , which they that are perfectly led by the spirit , need not at all , but he cannot mean the divine and directive Law , which must last to govern faithfull Christians , for Adam himself had such a law in Paradice .

To the fifth .

We say not that the law is made for the righteous , as he is righteous , and governed wholy by the Spirit of God , but for so much as the flesh lusteth aginst the Spirit , he ought to have a reforming law ; or indeed the former answer , to your fourth argument , might have served the turn so far , and as for what you alledge all out of the Romans , that the law worketh wroth , it must be understood of the Mosaick law , which worketh wroth indeed , if we be not releived by divine grace , but we are helped by grace and Truth by Jesus Christ .

To the sixth .

You must give me leave to tell you here , that you very much mistake Christian liberty , for by that , we are not exempted from the power of , and obedience to our superiours , but that liberty opposeth it self onely against the servitude of the Mosaicall Law , and slavery of sin , it cannot possibly be meant that it should free us from the wholsome constitutions , and commandments of the Church , which are all made for the advancement of godliness , Gal. 5.13 . this S. Paul sufficiently explains thus , for brethren you have been called into liberty , onely use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh , but by love serve one another ; 1 Pet. 2.16 , 13 , 14 , 15. Rom. 6.7 . & 8. and S. Peter notes , when he says , as free and not using your liberty for a cloak of maliciousness but as the servants of God , so he chargeth them , to submit to every ordinance of man for the Lords sake , &c. and assures them that that is the will of God . In fine it is plain that the true Christian and evangelicall liberty is nothing else but as S. Gal. 5. Paul pleaseth to define it , a redemption , or absolution of us from the servitude of the law and of sin , made for us by Jesus Christ , and by which as he says in another place , being dedicated to God , and righteousness , we receive the adoption of sons , John 8.36 . and of this freedom it was that our Saviour spake in S. Johns Gospel , if the son therefore shall make you free , ye shall be free indeed : and that freedom God of his mercy bestow upon us all .

Now that Humane Constitutions , the commands of Councils , and Bishops are to be kept , and all Ecclesiasticall rites and ceremonies duely observed , I prove by express Scriptures thus .

S. Luke recites our Saviours words thus , speaking to the seventy that he sent out , Luke 10.16 . He that heareth you , beareth me , and he that dispiseth you , dispiseth me , and he that despiseth me , dispiseth him that sent me . Observe I pray you , how he that despiseth the Prelates , and Ecclesiasticall constitutions of Christs Church , is judg'd by Christ himself to despise him , and his holy Gospel .

S. 1 Thess. 4.2 . & 8. Paul speaks home to the Thessalonians in this point , first tells them of the commandments that he had given them , then afterwards , be therefore that despiseth despiseth not man but God , who hath also given us his holy Spirit .

Moses and Aaron when the people murmured against them , told them frequently , Exod. Levit. Numb . Deut. that they heard their murmuring against the Lord , and again , what are we , your murmuring is not against us , but against the Lord .

Observe what S. John says , We are of God , 1 John 4.6 . he that knoweth God heareth us , he that is not of God heareth not us , hereby know we the spirit of truth from the spirit of errour ; you had best therefore have a care of your selves . Nay S. Paul proceeds a little more terribly in the point , Let every soul saith he , Rem. 13.1 , 2. be subject to the higher powers , for there is no power but of God , the powers that be are ordained of God , whosoever therefore resisteth the power resisteth the ordinance of God , and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation .

Now that men have power to make Laws and Statutes to obliedge consciences , it is plain by the president of the Apostles , Acts 15.19 . who commanded the Christians then , to abstain from things strangled , offerings unto Idols , and from blood , with divers other Acts , which they have left us . Then we finde how S. Paul himself made Laws , that you will not dare deny obedience to : as for the constituting of Bishops , concerning widdows , and women to be veiled , and not to preach in Churches , of not forsaking the unfaithful husband , or wife and of many prophane and meer secular things and judgements , as to be seen throughout in his Epistles , and the Acts of the Apostles , and yet S. Paul himself was but a man .

Nay it is plain the Priest of the old Law had power of making and altering of Laws , Deut. 12. 1 Sam. 7 1 Kings 18. in mater of discipline , we finde in Deuteronomy , how the Lord commanded that no Altar should be set up but where was the Ark of the Covenant , and yet Samuel whilest the Ark remained in Shilo , set up an Altar at Masphar , and Elias did the same thing in mount Carmel .

All this is abundantly confirmed by our Saviour Christ himself who bids us , Mat. 18.17 . if one shall neglect to hear , to tell it to the Church , but if he neglect to hear the Church , let him be unto then as a heathen man and a Publican .

Then for Traditions it is altogether as plain that they are to be observed , first S. 2 Thess. 2 Paul . tells us , that we must hold fast the Traditions we have received as well by his word as his Epistle .

Then that the Church of Christ ha's been , and is to be governed by custome , is playn by-another text of St. Pauls , where he saies , wee have no such custom nor the Church of God .

Again to the Philipians he says finally Brethren whatsoever things are true , Phil. 4.8.9 . whatsoever things are honest , whatsoever things are just , whotsoeverthings are pure , whatsoever things are lovely , whatsoever things are of good report , if there be any vertue , and if there be any prayse , think on these things ; Those things which ye have both learned , and received and hard , and seen in me doe &c. Now what are all these things but Traditions , and ecclesiasticall constitutions ? Acts 15.41.16 . Wee finde in the Acts how Paul and Silas went through Syria and Cylicia confirming the Churches , Acts 15.41 ; and so afterwards wee find how Paul , Silas and Timothy passed through cities delivering the Doctrines and ordinances which were decreed by the Apostles & Elders that were at Jerusalem , observe that ordinances , or decrees not one decree onely of the cessation of the legall rites , and ceremonies .

Our Saviour not only gave a power to plant his Church by preaching , but also governing which includes the power of making laws , Acts 21.28 . with out which there can be neither living , nor governing , and that is plain likewise out of the Acts , take heed therefore unto your selses , and to the flock over which the Lord hath made you overseers to feed , as your translation reads it , but ours , to govern the Church of God , and indeed what is a Bishop or an overseer made for , unless to govern , the preaching part may be performed by other inferiour priests and Deacons .

And does not Paul to the Hebrews call them Rulers , Heb. 13.7.17 . as in one place , remember them which have the rule over you and again , obey them that have the rule over you , and submit your selves , for they watch for your souls , as they that must give account , that they may doe it with joy , and not with griefe for that is unprofitabele for you .

Then the same Apostle requires the Corrinthians that all things de done decently and in order , 1 Cor. 14 40. now it is plain that order supporteth a law , and rule , which the Church of Christ is , or ought to be governd by .

Lastly , St. Paul may very well conclude this business and dispute of Tradition which his positive command to the Thessilonians . 2 Thess. 3.6 . Now we command you Bretheren in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ , that ye with draw your selves , from every Brother , that walketh dissorderly , and not after the Tradi , tion , which he received of us , if this be not cleer , I declare for my part , that I can see no light .

To what you Alledge against our days of fasting , and abstinence and especially the holy fast of Lent , I answer thus .
To the first .

I say that our Saviour in the Gospells that you cite , says not one word of fasting , but endeavouring to take away that Jewish errour and superstition , which was , that to eat meat with unwasht bands , made the meat unclean and the eater two , tells them , that not that which goeth into the mouth defileth &c. This I say was onely to rebuke that foollish errour of theirs , for he could not mean it absolutly , otherwise they that in the Apostles time , should have eaten meats offered to Idolls , things strangled , or blood , or poyson willingly and knowingly , should not have been defiled , but so we know they were , Over and above let it be granted that all meat whatsoever , which enters the mouth , passeth into the belly , and is cast out into the draught , does not defile a man , Yet when a man shall against the commandment of God and his Church , or the custome and Tradition of it , or against his own vow , or with the scandall of his neighbour , take any meat whatsoever , it does , and must of necessity defile him , for this proceeds out of an evil , and malicious heart , that is from a plain contempt of God and his Church , in so slighting their precepts , Thus if the Rechabites had drunk wine , though in it self good , they had defiled themselves , because it was against the comand of their father . And it is plain that God approves their abstinence for that very reason , and pronounceth a blessing to the whole family , for being obedient to the precepts of Jonadab their father●

In the like manner the Angel Gabriel foretold of John the Baptist , Luke 1. Mat. 3. Mark 1. Luke 3. that he should neither drink wine , nor any strong drink , and that his fool should be Locusts and wilde hony , Now I would aske the question , whether if the Baptist had transgrest that rule , he had offended , or not , but enough of this .

To the second .

I say the Apostle , in those words , that you so much insist upon , means onely that he would not have such a judiciall observance , continued amongst Christians , as to hold some meats absolutly , unlawfull , and perpetually forbiden , as swines flesh , excepting onely what was decreed against in the Councell of the Apostles . Acts ● . But the Church of Christ beleives every creature of God to bee good , though for a while , and to mortify the old mans , he commands an abstinence from some . Again the Apostle speaks not heer at all of fasting or mortification of the flesh , but because certain heretickes there were , that held some creature to proceed from an evil principle , the Apostle goes about to beat down that opinion , and tells them , 1 Tim. 4. that every creature of God is good to be received with thanks giving , and that is our religion , though we hold not that every good thing is good at all times , and seasons , nor does the Apostle heer command it should be so .

To the Third .

You are to understand that by the old law some creatures were unclean , but that Typically and by signification onely , though the Jews were so sottish , as to beleive that they were so in their one nature ; This errour the Apostle goes about to destroy , saying to the faithfull all things are pure , and so by consequence to be eaten in their seasons but that it is not lawfull , to abstein from a sort of lawfull meat , for a certain time , is a wonder to me how you could draw into that Apostles sence who was himself , as he says so often in fastings , and some of the fathers , as I have read in story , never drank wine , or eat flesh in all their lives .

To the Fourth .

I answer in the like manner , that the holy Apostle would not have his Collosstans nor any other faithfull Christians , judged about meat and drink and holy days , after the old Jewish fashion , and not a word of fasting there .

To the fifth .

I shall freely grant to you that it is by the spirit that we are to mortify the deeds of the flesh , but I must tell you again , that the spirit receives strength from the weakening of the flesh , and crusifying of it with fasting , as the Apostle himself whom you urge , explains it to the Gallatians , Gal. 5.23.24 . when he first tells them that Temperance is the fruit of the spirit , and after assures them that they who are Christs , have crucified the flesh , with the affections and lusts &c. but above all I pray you observe , what he says to the Corinthians , 1 Cor. 9.25 , 26 , 27. And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things &c. I therefore so run not as uncertainly , so fight I not as one that beateth the aire : but I keep under my body and bring it into subjection , least that by any means when I have preached to others , I my self should be a cast away . Thus it is plain that S. Paul thought that he advanced the vigour of his spirit , by his subjugation of his flesh .

To the sixth and Last .

As for your pretence of Christian liberty I have shewed you plainly before , that it pertains not a jot to this purpose . As for what you say that Jesus Christ himself never made any distinction of meats , nor commanded any such thing , I grant it for he employed himself whilst he was on earth , in matters of greater moment to our Salvation , and left those things which were to expedite , and promote our way to heaven , to the direction and government of his holy Spirit , that was to animate his whole Church . Besides though our Saviour says nothing of destinction of meats , he does not withstanding much of fasting , and to give us example did most miraculously practise it in his own person : so now I presume you will give me leave to prove my part .

And first I prove that the Church does lawfully forbid certain meats , for certain times , by express Scriptures thus .

First the Apostles themselves being assembled in counsel , laid an injunction upon all Christians Solemnly so to do , in these words : For it seemed good unto the holy Ghost and to us &c. Acts 15.28 , 29. that ye abstein from meats offered unto Idolls , and , from blood and from things strangled &c.

S. Rom. 14.20 , 21. Paul declares freely to the Romanes , that we ought not for matter of meat , destroy the worke of God , all things indeed are pure , but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence : it is good neither to eat flesh nor to drink wine , nor any thing whereby thy Brother stumbleth , or is offended , or is made weak &c. heer is a perfect abstinence commanded for certain times , and particular reasons . Again he says to the Corinthians , that meat commendeth us not to God , for noither if we eat , are we the better , neither if we eat not are we the worse &c. and then concludes , wherefore if meat make my Brother to offend , I will eat no flesh whilest the world standeth , least I make my Brother to offend ; heer again is abstinence for certain time and certain reasons .

Then that such an abstinence is acceptable to God , see the express words of the Prophet Daniel speaking of himself . Dan. 10.2.3 . I Daniel was mourning three full weeks , I eat no pleasent bread , neither came flesh nor wine into my mouth , neither did I anoint my filf at all &c. Then said the Lord unto Daniel , fear not , ver. 12. for from the first day that thou didst set thine heart to understand , and to chasten thy self before thy God , thy words were heard &c. heer you see how the Prophet Daniel did abstain from meat , and wine , and God reproved and loved him for it .

In the like maner I shall prove fasting to be a holy institution , for the maceration of the body , the explusion of the evil Spirit , the imploring of divine grace , and the imitation of Jesus Christ , by express scripture in S. Math. Gospell thus

First our Saviour saith , Mat. 9.15 . can the Children of the Bride-chamber mourn , so long as the Bridegroom is with them , but the days will come , when the Bridegroom shall be taken from them , Luke 5.35 , 36. and then they shall fast , and in S. Lukes Gospell he says , can ye make the Children of the Bride-chamber fast whilst the Bridegroome is with them , but the days shall come &c. and then shall they fast in those days . And these words of our Saviours were abundantly fullfiled by the Apostles , as you may see in the Acts. Acts 13.2.3 . first as they ministred unto the Lord and fasted the holy Ghost said &c.

And again , when they had fasted , and prayed &c. Acts. 14.23 . And in the next chapter it is said , and when they had Ordained them olders in every Church and had prayed with fasting , they commended them to the Lord &c.

S. Paul declareth to the Corinthians , how he and others that were ingaged in the service of the Church should behave themselves thus . 2 Co● . 6.4.5 . In all things approving our selves , as the ministers of God &c. in watchings and in fastings .

And that this duty of fasting was acceptable to God even before Christianity , Jonah 3.5 , 6 , 7 , 8 , 9 , 10. we may see in the example of Ninniveh . So the people of Ninniveh beleived God ( that is the word which was preacht to them by the Prophet Jonah ) and proclaimed a fast , and put on sackcloth from the greatest of them even to the least of them , and it followes , it was decreed by the King and all his Nobles , saying , let neither man beast , heard nor flock tast any thing , let them not feed nor drink water but let man and beast be covered with sackcloth , &c. And God saw their works and that they turned from their evil way , and God repented of the evil that he had said , that he would do unto them and be did it not . Thus you may see how acceptable to God , this solemne fast of the Ninnivits was , and yet you will question that duty .

But to summe up all this in a few words , Mat. 6.16 , 17 , 18. I pray you observe what our Saviour says in S. Mathews Gospell . Moreover when ye fast , be not as the Hypoerites , of a sad countenance , for they disfigure their faces that they may appear unto men to fast , verily I say unto you , they have their reward but thou when thou fastest , annoint thy bead , and wash thy face , that thou appear not unto men to fast , but unto thy father which is in secret , and thy father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly . Heer our Saviour does not onely implicitely commend , this duty of fasting to us , but prescribes us the manner of it , and assures us it is meritorious , for he saith that God shall reward it openly ; I think this should be enough to satisfy any reasonable Christians .

Why then should our lenten fast so much offend you when it is so ancient in the Church as I have been informed , ever since the Apostles times and ordained in humble imitation of our Saviour , who as the scripture tells us , when he had fasted forty days and forty nights , Mat. 4.2 . he was afterwards an bungred , can we performe think you a more Christian , duty , Deut. 9. than to follow so great an example , so far as we can ?

Again we finde that Moses fasted fourty days , and fourty nights .

And that the Prophet Elijah did the same . 1 Kings 16.

Nay how much this duty of fasting is pleasing to the Lord , we may finde in the Prophet Joel who crys out , Joel 2.15 , 16 , 18. blow the Trumpit in Sion , fanctify a fast , call a solemn , assembly gather the people , sanctify the congregation , assemble the elders , gather the Children , and those that suck the breast , let the Bridegroom goe forth of his chamber , and the Bride out of her closet &c. Then will the Lord pitty his people &c.

The Prophet David frequently acknowledgeth that he did humble his soul with fasting , Psalms and the Scripture throughout is full of nothing more then that God did accept of that humiliation still when it was hearty , 1 Kings , 21. Tob. 12. Luke 2. as Abab , Hezekiah , Tobiah , Judith , Hester , Daniel , the Niunivites , Ann the widdow , and agreat many more , that would be infinite to recount . So for a close of all I shall onely put you in minde , that there were a sort of Devills , of whom our Saviour himself says , Mark 9.29 . that that kinde is not to be east out but by prayer and fasting who then shall cast out Devils , from them that are enemies Profest , against that great and holy duty of fasting .

To what you alledge against our Vows , especially those of Chastity and single-life though in one Priests themselve .
To the First , I answer that .

I grant indeed that Vows do reduce us into Bondage , but it is only to Christ , and such a slavery , is the nighest libercy . It is such a servitude as the Apostle speaks of , being freed from sin ye are made the servants of Righteousnesse and to God , and to serve God is to Raign with him : from whence it is plain , that our obligation to pay our Vows , does in nothing repugne or Streighten our Christian liberty , no more then our obligation to keep the Commandements does : and just so as the Transgression of the Commandements throws us into the servitude of sin ; so does the breach , or not observance of our Vows . It is true , the Evangelicall Counfells are at first free , but after a promise is once made , they become Obligatory ; shall we make a conscience to observe our Contracts with men and violate our Covenants with God ? God forbid . The Lord commands us not to make Vows , but to pay and render them when they are made : as Matrimony before a Contract , is free , but when the Contract is once made , it is then firm and indissolveable , and therefore impossible ( unlesse in our Saviours case ) to procure a Divorce . At first every man hath in his Free-Will to vow , or not to vow , but to pay the vow being once made , is so necessary , that a man cannot recede from it , without hazard of his salvation . Our Saviour says , That no man setting his hand to the Plow , and looking back , is fit for the Kingdome of God . And again , Remember Lots Wife , Luk. 9.17 . Gen. 19. Matth. 10. chap. 24. 2 Thes. 2.7 . Prov. 20.25 . Matth. 22.31 . who looking back was turn'd into a pillar of Salt . Again , he that perseveres to the end shall be saved , that is , till death . The wise King Solomon assures us , it is a snare to the man who devoureth that which is holy , and after vows to make inquiry ; Our Translation reads it thus , It is a ruine to man to devoure the Saints , and after vows made , to retract them . Let all pious Votaries therefore , according to our Saviours Words in St. Matthews Gospel , Renden unto God the things which are Gods , that is their Vows , that through his mercy , they may deserve to be saved .

To the second .

I freely grant that Vows of themselves , and all the externall works of piety , dictated from the severest Rules of Monastick life cannot renew the inward man , yet doubtlesse they are very helpfull to the spirit , and keep the body from too much oppressing the soul ; nay I 'le grant too , that if those externall works , as you call them , be done that they make seen of men , they are Hypocriticall , if done clearly to the glory of God , you must sure grant them , at least to be laudable : Besider , the Apostle says not , that bodily exercise profiteth nothing , but grants that it profiteth a little , if it be imployed to piety .

To the Third .

Whereas you say that externall works are enemies to Christianity , and do extinguish faith , and weaken hope &c. They are so far from that , that they are the very life and nourishment of faith , for St. James tells us , that faith without works is dead ; Jam. 2. and it must strengthen his hope , for by works both his faith and he must be justified , as was sufficiently proved to you in my last Paper : Luk. 17. But indeed if he dare to presume in his works , then he is not only guilty but condemned already , For when we have done all that we can , we must say that we are but profitable Servants ,

To the Fourth .

Whereas you say it is grand presumption in our Votaries , to oblige themselves beyond the Rule of Baptisme , and the Evangelicall Rule , &c. It is plain , that they make their Vows to no other intent or purpose then to dispose themselves to perfect the Evangelicall precepts , and what they promis'd in Baptisme with more commodiousnesse and greater facility ; they undertake their Rules only to promote in their way to perfection , and to enable themselves with more expedients in the service of God .

To what you alledge against our vows of chastity , and restraining of Priests from Marriage , I answer thus ,
To the first .

I grant that it was indulg'd to the Priests and Levites in the Old Law to have Wives , because they had a long time of vacancy from the exercise of their Ministry or Priesthood . For there was a great multitude of them , and they served by course ; The case is not the same now , for our Priests are in dayly service of the Altar , and commanded to be always ready , and without delay to attend their Ministry ; so it would be very inconvenient for them to be clog'd with Wives , besides the indecency of it . Again they were to be only of one Tribe , the Tribe of Levi , that were to bee taken into their Priesthood , it was therefore necessary for the conservation of the Tribe , and propagation of the Priesthood it self , which otherwise in one age would have fayled that their Priests should marry . Besides we find that those that were to sacrifice in the Old Law , did abstain somtime from their Wives likewise : so that St. Luke testifies of Zacharias , And then it came to pass that so soon as the days of his Ministration were accomplished , Luke 1.23.24 . he departed to his own house , and after those days his Wife Elizabeth conceiv'd , &c. Over and above all this the Priests of the Old Testament did handle but their proposition bread , with the flesh of Goats , Oxen , Lambs and the like , but ours do dayly handle the precious body and blood of Christ .

As to the other part of your Argument , that the Greeks and other Christians have a liberty for their Priests to marry . I say you are mistaken , for no Priest amongst them is permitted to marry , after he is a Priest , but one that has taken a Virgin to Wife , may be afterwards made a Priest , and if his Wife dye he must remain single . So a married man may be made a Priest , but no Priest can be made a married man :

To the Second .

That command of the Almighty which you insist upon , to increase and multiply , was given when the earth was to be replenish'd , & heaven too for then then there were but few to procreate , now they are innumerable . Therefore that command is not to be taken amongst those permanent Laws , which were to oblige all Mankind , and every particular person , for then St. John the Baptist had been a sinner , who liv'd and dy'd a Virgin : Our blessed Lady had sinned , who is the grand Example of Virginity . Paul himself had sinned , who was the great Counsellour of Virginity : and out Saviour Christ had never commended Eunuchs for the Kingdome of Heaven . In like manner that precept , and repeated by our Saviour , Whom God hath joyned let no man separate : concerns not sure every one in the World , though it be given to every one multitude of , the World . So the command concerning Tillage and Husbandry , does not make it necessary that all the World should bee Husbandmen , though some must bee . Neither is it necessary for every individuall of mankind to imploy himself in procreation , though it is necessary that some must make it their businesse to propagate . And so it is in an infinity of other things , that are necessary for a whole community , and yet not at all for every single person ; but it sufficeth , that it be done by some .

To the third .

I deny perfectly that the Church forbids marriages at all ; but when any man is ty'd by his own voluntary Vow to the contrary , the Church prohibits the violation of that Vow , for before his vow it was as free for him to marry , as for a married man , it is impossible to contract again . The Church takes a care in this point onely , that hee whosoever hee is that vowes shall not deliver up the power of his body to another , which was before delivered up to Christ . And the Hereticks which you speak of , Mark 15. 1 Cor. 10. which Saint Paul mentions , were those that succeeded presently after , as I am inform'd , that did absolutely condemn Matriages for unlawfull .

To the Fourth .

That Saint Paul commands Titus to choose a Bishop that was the Husband of one Wife we do not deny , but sure you do not believe , that hee commanded , that a Bishop should of necessity be a married man , for then neither he himself nor Titus neither had been Bishops , nor many of your own , whom you would take it ill , if we should deny to be Bishops , and yet have very conscientiously avoided marriage . The Apostle would not therefore , that a Bishop should be found guilty of so much carnality as to be husband to two Wives , and the Church taught by Saint Paul ha's forbid bigamy ever since , and St. Paul only here lays down the Rule of a Bishops continence , that h●● should not take a second Wife .

To the Fifth .

I grant chastity to be free , but necessary after it is vow'd , and then commanded , nor does that at all oppose the liberty of the Spirit , but promote it , for God himselfe does freely and yet necessarily produce the holy spirit . It is true likewise what the Apostle says that it is better to marry then to burn , but the same Apostle tells you likewise , that it is good for a man not to touch a Woman . St. Paul would not have a man burn , that is tempted of the flesh , but he is burnt that is overcome with the flames of concupiscense , and for such a man , saith he , it is better to Marry , than to bee always wallowing in the mire : if you will put any other sence upon St. Pauls words , you wil make St. Paul himself to marry , because he had a Prick in his flesh , &c. I do confesse that I believe it to be very difficult to contein , but the Kingdom of Heaven suffers violence , and the violent take it , as our Saviour assures us , and St. Paul tels us , That though we are tempted of the flesh , yet God is faithfull who suffers not to be tempted above that we are able , and will be always present to support us , if we implore his help .

To the Sixth .

To what you urge out of the same Apostle to the Cor. That if thou marry , thou hast not sinned , &c. I answer that St. Paul speaks plainly there of one that was free to marry or not to marry not I say of the Virgin that ha's dedicated it self to God already , but of that which is free , and at it's own dispose .

To the Seventh .

Whereas you say that our vows of Virginity are vain and indeed foolish because impossible ; I do truly grant , as to nature , an impossibility , and so are many other things that are absolutely commanded . But if you consider the assisting grace of God , nothing is impossible : and every man is capable to receive that whom God shal think worthy to bestow it upon : and neither the Pope nor any of his , do trust in their external mortifications at all , but that God will please to assist those their endeavours , with his Almighty grace , which hee never denies to those that so dutifully and instantly ask it , as they do . There is something else , that you say in your argument , which though it be sufficiently answered , I must desire you yet to advise better upon , and think whether it was so well said of a woman ; for which very words , Luther himself as I am inform'd lost much of his credit with his own Disciplcs .

To what you alledge against us for multiplying of Sacraments , and making them , as you say , out of meer humane inventions , I answer thus .
To the First .

Whereas you are pleas'd to begin so briskly with me , and as I take it , with a syllogism : I professe I know not whether it be true or false in the form ; but one proposition I am sure is false : First that we have any supernumerary Sacraments , or any Sacrament that was not of Christs own institution ; as you shall see how I will prove anon .

To the Second .

Whereas you say you have sufficiently already convinced the Sacrament of penance to be none , by overthrowing the parts of it , Confession and Satisfaction : I answer , that I humbly conceive that I have sufficiently in my reply , restor'd that Sacrament , both in whole and in it's parts , so shall insist upon it no further neither .

To the Third .

Whereas you say , that our Sacraments of Confirmation and order are but meer constitutions of the Church , and not of Christ . I have but your bare word for it , and so you must give me leave to deny it .

To the Fourth .

As you are pleased to give me something like an Argument , so I shall give you something like an answer . You say there can be no pretence for to make Matrimony a Sacrament , but a few mistaken words of Saint Paul , who had no power to make a Sacrament neither , &c. I concurre with you that Saint Paul had no power at all to constitute a Sacrament , nor any but our Saviour Jesus Christ and that it was he who constituted it a Sacrament ; I shall prove ●non . As for the mistaken words in which you pretend , Sacrament for Mystery ; I do confesse that Matrimony is a mystery but how dare you therefore inferre that it is no Sacrament , when we know that all Sacraments are mysteries , and so the Greeks ( as I am inform'd ) do generally call all the seven . Then that it is a great Sacrament in Christ and his Church , as the Apostle tells us , does it therefore follow that it is e're the less a Sacrament ? on the contrary the Apostle here explains how it is a Sacrament , that is how it coms to be the sign of a holy thing and that not of grace only , as all the others are , but of something more , that is of the union between Christ and his Church : so upon the matter , it is so farre from being no Sacrament , that it may be well reputed as a double one , with Reverence be it spoken .

To the Fifth .

Wheras you say , we have a less pretence for our extream unction to make it a Sacrament , I do in one sence submit to it , for it is not so literally constituted a Sacrament , by our blessed Saviour , as the other was : but yet it was of his own institution , as we shall shew anon , and if it were not , I do not find any matter of false faith in it , that an Apostle by the commandement of Christ , and possest with his ful authority , should have the power to institute a Sacrament . But it is plain , that our Saviour did institute it , and Saint James only publish and declare it . And though it were at s●me time doubted , whether that Epistle were written by any body else besides Saint James ; yet it is plainly now admitted to be Canonicall , and never denied yet by your own Church . And truly he that shall refuse to hear the Church ( in this particular ) approving the Epistle of this Apostle , will presently throw all Scripture into uncertainty , and by the same reason may deny the Epistles of St. Paul , or any other Apostles .

Now because you seem to take for granted that our Sacraments are for the most part humane constitutions , and it is of faith that they are of divine institution , 1 Pet. 3.15 and we ought to be as St. Peter adviseth us , Always ready to give answer to every one that asketh us a reason of the saith and hope that is in us . I shall take some pains to prove it to you thus .

As for our Sacrament of Penance , as you conceive enough said on your part against it , so I conceive I have said sufficiently for it in my reply to those two parts of it , Confession and Satisfaction , to which I refer you : So I shall make it my business now to prove the other four , to be Sacraments , and of divine institution ; and I shall begin with the Sacrament of Confirmation . Every Sacrament is a sensible sign , having an infallible assistance of the grace of the Holy Spirit ; and such I prove Confirmation to be , by most express Scriptures thus .

We find in the Acts , That when the Apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had receiv'd the Word of God , Act. 8.14.15 , 16 , 17. they sent unto them Peter and John . Who when they were come down , pray'd for them , that they might receive the Holy Ghost . ( F●r as yet he was fallen upon none of them ; only they were baptized in the Name of the Lord Jesus ) Then laid they their hands upon them , and they received the Holy Ghost . Here was manifestly a confirmation after Baptism , and a sensible sign , to wit , Imposition of hands , by which the grace of the holy spirit was confer'd , and that is enough to make a Sacrament .

Again we find in another Chapter of the same Acts , Act. 19.2.3 , 4 , 5 , 6. That Paul being at Ephesus , and finding some Disciples there , said unto them , have ye received the Holy Ghost since ●e believed , and they said unto him , we have not so much as heard whether there be any holy Ghost ; and be said unto them , unto what then were ye baptized ? and they said unto him , Johns Baptism , then said Paul , John verily baptized with the Boptism of Repentance , saying unto the people that they should believe on him which should come after him that is on Christ Jesus : when they heard this they believed on Christ Jesus . And when Paul bad laid his hands upon them , the Holy Ghost came on them ; and they spake with Tongues and Prophesy'd . Here is I say again , after Beliefe and Baptism , an Imposition of hands , by which , the grace of the Holy Spirit was ferr'd .

Now that this Sacrament waa instituted by Christ himself , is plain by the Gospells , John 16. where he promiseth his Apostles the Comforter , his Holy Spirit , with which they should be confirmed , by virtue from above , now the mission of the Holy Ghost in the time of Penticost , either was the Sacrament of confirmation it self , or instead of it : Mark . 11.13 , 14. Matth. 10. again we find in the Gospels , That they brought young children to Christ , that be should touch them and his Disciples rebuked them that brought them , but when Jesus saw it be was displeased , and said suffer the little Children to come to me , for of such is the Kingdome of God , &c. Now it is very probable that he did either institute this Sacrament then , or at least insinuate it . So enough I coceive said to that .

Now that the Sacramnot of Orders , was instituted likewise by Christ himself , and with a sensible sign conferrs grace , I prove this by expresse Scriptures .

First we find that when Jesus had called unto him his twelve Disciples , Mat. 10.1 . he gave them power against unclean spirets , and to heal all manner of sicknesse and all manner of diseases . Then again , Jesus going up into the Mountain , and called unto him wh●m he would , and they came unto him , and he made that Twelve should be with him , Mark . 6.7 . and he sent them to preach , &c. And after these things , the Lord appointed other seventy also , and sent them tweand two before his face into every City and place whither he himself would come . Then again we find , Luk 10.1 . that taking bread he brake it , giving thanks and saying ; this is my Body , &c. Do this in remembrance of me . Then last of all look into St. Johns Gospel , and you wil find yet a more express Ordination and mission . As my Father h●th sens me so send I you . L●k. 28. And when he had said this , he breathed on them and saith unto them , receive ye the holy Ghost : John 10. ● 21 , 22 , 23 , Whosoever sins ye remit they are remitted unto them , and whosoever sins ye retein , they are reteyned . Thus you have in the four Gospells the institution of this Sacrament : Let us now look a little into the Apostolicall practise .

We find in the Acts , Act. 13. ●● As they ministred to the Lord ; and fasted , the holy Ghost said , separate me Barnabas and Saul , for the work whereunto I have called them : and when they had fasted and prayed and I did their hands on them , they sent them away . Here again is plain Ordination and Mission .

St. Paul gives direction to young Timothy , how to behaave himself in his Ministry , and then says , 1 Tim. 4.14 . Neglect not the gift that is in thee , which was given to thee by Pr●phecy , with the laying on of the hands of the Presbytery . Then again he says , Lay not thy hands on any man over haftily , and again , the Elders that govern well , are worthy of double honour . Then the same Apostle tells Titus , 1 Tim. 6. For this Cause I left thee in Creet , that thou shouldst make Elders in severall Cities . 2 Tim. 1. Then to Philemon he says of those Elders , those that are of this sort , have a great regard to , thus you see what respect St. Paul had to holy orders , and yet to admonish us further of our duties to them , he makes it his humble request to the Thessalonians , thus , Phil. 1. We beseech you brethren , to know them that labour amongst you , and over you on the Lord , and admonish you in the Lord , and to esteem them very highly in love for their works sake , and be at peace amongst your selves . See what charge St. 1 Thes. 5.12.13 . Peter gives the Elders : The Elders which are among you , I exhort , who am also an Elder , &c. Feed the flock of God which is among you , taking the eversighe thereof , &c. And when the chief Shepherd shall appear , ye shall receive a Crown of glory that fadeth not away . So St. Paul , again , in the Acts of the Apostles , Exhorts the Elders of Eph●sus thus , Take heed therefore unto your selves , and to the Flock over which the Holy Ghost hath made you Bishops , ( or Overseers as you would have it , for it is all one ) to feed the Church of God , which he hath purchased with his own Blood . Act. 20.28 . Ge● . 1.37 Observe that the Holy Ghost made them Bishops and Overseers , and yet you will deny Orders to be a Sacrament , but it is plain it is , for Imposition of hands is the visible sign , which carries with it the invisible grace of the Holy Spirit , as you have seen at large proved by Scripture .

That Matrimony is a Sacrament , and instituted by Christ , I likewise prove by expresse Scripture thus .

First it is very probable that the blessing which God Almighty gave to Adam and Eve in Paradice , was not unaccompani'd with divine grace . But howsoever the institution of our Saviour I 'm sure could not be without it : Matth. 19.1.6 . and first he is pleased to repeat the words of the first Institution . For this cause shall a man leav his Father & mother & shall cleave to his Wife , and they twain shall be one flesh , wherefore they are no more twain , but one flesh : What therefore God hath joynd together let no man put asunder . Now if God hath joyndthemtogether , it must be a divine conjunction and that cannot possibly be without divine grace .

But this is most fully exprest by St Paul to the Ephesians thus , Wives submit your selves to your own Husbands , as unto the Lord , for the Husband is the head of the Wife , even as Christ is the head of the Church ; and he is the Saviour of the body , therefore as the Church is subject to Christ , Ephes 5.22 , 23 , 225 so let the Wives be to their own Husbands in every thing . Husbands love your Wives , even as Christ also loved the Church , and gave himself for it , &c. And then concludes , for this eause shall a man leave his father and mother , and shall be joyned with his Wife , and they two shall be one flesh . This is a great Mystery , or Sacrament , chuse you which . Here the Apostle clearly proclaims it a Sacrament , because the Conjunction of man and wife , is the visible sign of that Sacred Conjunction between Christ and his Church .

Again to the Hebrews he says thus , Marriage is honourable in all , and the bed undefiled , Heb. 13.4 . but Wheremingers and Adulterers God will judge . Now if there were not a divine and Sacramentall grace in marriage , how could the Bed be undefiled ?

Again to the Corinthians , he adviseth every one to have his own Wise , 1 Cor. 7.2 . for the avoyding of Formeation ; yet it is not to be supposed , that any man by the help of a Wife onely , be she what she can be of virtue and beauty , can be capable to avoyd Fornication without the said Sacramentall Grace .

Again , to the Thessalonians thus . 1 Thes 1. Let every one amongst you know how to possess his Vessells in sanctification and honour , now sanctification , we know cannot be without divine grace .

Then he tells Timethy , that a woman shall be saved by Childbearing , if she remain in saith and love , now to beget children , without the grace of this Sacrament , would be more probably occasion of damnation than salvation .

Then again to the Corinthians he saith , 1 Cor. 7.12 , 13 , 14 If any brother hath a wife that believeth not , and she be pleased to dwell with him , let him not put her away . And the woman which hath a busband that believeth not , and if he be pleased to dwell with her , let her not leave him . For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife , and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband : else were your children unclean , but now are they holy ; which must needs be understood ; as by the grace of this holy Sacrament .

I shall conclude all concerning this , Prov. 19. with what the wise King Solomon tells us , that a house and riches we have from our Parents , but a prudent wife is from the Lord . Thus we must acknowledg God to be the immediate Authour of Marriages , as we say matches are made in heaven , and by the grace of this Sacrament , onely to be made happy .

That extream Vnction is a Saeroment likewise , and a visible sign of an invisible grace , I prove by ezpress Scripture thus .

We find in Saint Markes Gospell , how our Saviour called unto him the twelve , Mark . 6 , 7 , 8.9 , 10 , 11 , 12 , 13. and began to send them out by two and two , and gave them power over unclean Spirits , &c. And after he had given them their mission fully , with orders how to behave themselves , in their business , we find , that they went out accordingly , and Preached that men should repent , and they cast out many Devills : And then anointed with Oyle many that were sick , and healed them . This it is not to be thought , that they did this upon their own heads , but by their Masters command , by whose power they did those mighty works , and having his command , sure then none can deny but it was his Institution .

Then this Sacrament is so loudly proclaimed by Saint James , that I admire how any Christian can believe in Scripture , and doubt the other . It any sick among you , says the Apostle , James 5.14 , 15. let him call for the Elders of the Church , and let them pray over him , anointing him with Oyle in the Name of the Lord , &c. and if he have committed sinns , they shall be forgiven him . Here is plainly a most visible sign , and as plainly , a most extraordinary grace accompanying it , that is to say , remission of sins .

Thus you may clearly see , how extream Unction is a Sacrament of our Saviours own Institution , or at least plainly impli'd to have been instituted by him , and that by the action of the Twelve Apostles before his face , whilst he was upon earth , and at large declar'd to be so by the express words of one of the Twelve that is Saint James . Over and above this , we have the universall tradition of the Church of Christ , that in these matters of faith , we know cannot erre : and that alone indeed might have been a sufficient proofe of the verity of it , if our Saviour himself , his Apostles , and Evangelists had been silent in it . The truth is , that the Evangelists being to write in short ( for if they had writ at large , the whole world had not been able to contain the books that might have been written , as Saint John tells us ) of the Acts , and words of our Saviour Jesus Christ , made it their principall care to deliver punctually to us onely those things that were most highly necessary to our salvation ; as we see how amply they have set down the Sacraments that were absolutely necessary , as Baptisme , Pennance ; and Eucharist , and as for confirmition , and extream Unction , they do not so much as insist upon , because they are not of absolute necessity to salvation , though they are very great expedients towards it ; the one to confirm us in grace , after Baptism , the other to remove the reliques of sin , after a hearty repentance . And it is the opinion of the learned in this point , that the benefit of this Sacrament , is such , that a penitent with attrition onely receiving this Sacrament , receives likewise such a grace along with it , that by virtue of it , his sins though mortall , may be forgiven him . Thus I conceive enough said as to this , and all the rest of your last paper ; and when you please I am ready for another , and to serve you with any thing , that may lye within the power of

Your faithfully loving and true friend , M.
This paper my Lady had no sooner dispatcht , but she sent it away by one of her servants sealed up , and by him she roceived this Answer . Madam ,

I have received your Ladyships Letter and Paper inclosed , for which I teturn my most humble thanks , and instead of another which you seem to require of me , I have sent you two , herein inclosed , the one to shew you the superstition , Idolatry , and Will-worship of your Church ; the other to convince you of the Pride , Arrogancy , Tyranny , and Usurp'd power of it , which when your Ladyship hath been pleased to peruse , and as well as you can , to answer , I shall summe up all that you have said rogether , and make a short rejoynder to the whole of your replies ; for I am refolved to trouble your Ladyship with no more Papers , so praying God for your Ladyships good health , both of Body and Soul , I take leave to remain ,

Madam , Your Ladyships most assured faithfull servant , N.
My Lady upon the return of her servant , opening the Packet that Mistress . N. had sent back to her , found the Papers inclosed , whereof the first was to this effect as followeth .

That which your Church teacheth concerning the invocation of Saints , is a Doctrine very injurious to God , and yet not more prophane then superstitious , and impertinent , and that I will prove thus .

1. Jesus Christ our blessed Saviour , with God the Father , God the Holy Ghost , Holy Trinity in Unity , three Persons and one God , alone is all-sufficient , alone is most liberall , and alone is most mercifull , and who alone loves us more than all the Saints . There is not a Christian living , that I think dares deny a word of this , if there should be such a monster , a were easie to prove every word of it , by express Scripture : who can think it rationall then to invoke any other thing ; and besides that , this all-bountifull , all-mercifull , all-powerfull , most good , most gracious , and most loving Lord God , has not onely enjoin'd us , but importun'd us to pray to him , and him alone , promising to hear , and grant our requests , and that I prove by most express Scriptures thus .

2. First by the Gospells it is most clear , our Saviour in Saint John assures it with a Verily , verily , I say unto you , whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name , he will give it you , John 16.23 , 24. and then in the next verse , Ask , and ye shal receive , thus it is but asking of God and having , and yet you must think fit to go about by the Saints .

3. Then in Saint Lukes Gospel we find , and I say unto you , ask and it shall be given you , Luke 11.9.10 , 11 , 12 , 13. seek and ye shall find , knock , and it shall be opened unto you . For every one that asketh receiveth , and he that seeketh findeth , and to him that knocketh it shall be opened . Then by the paralel of God with a good Father granting his childs requests he concludes how much more shall your heavenly Father give the holy Spirit to them that ask him . Again , what you ask in prayet believing ye shall receive , as Saint Matthews Gospell tells , Matth. 2. with an infinity of other places ; too many to repeat to that purpose , wherefore Saint Paul most pithily concludes , Heb. 4.16 . Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of Grace , that we may obtain mercy , and find grace to help , in time of need .

4 The Apostle tells us , 2 Cor. 1.3 . that God is the Father of mercies , and the Lord of all comforts , who comforteth us in all our tribulation , that we may be able to comfort them which are in any trouble , by the comfort wherewith we our selvs are comforted of God , &c. If all our comfort then be from God , had we not better make our address to him , that we know is the fountain of all Grace , than to the Saints , who can have nothing but what they derive from him .

5. The same Apostle tells Tymothy plainly that there is but one Mediatour between God and men , and that is Christ Jesus ; what an offence then must it needs be to God , to make more Mediators , that is , the Saints ? Then we finde frequently in Scripture that he alone maketh intercesion for us , as in Isaiah that he makes intercession for transgressors : 1 Tim. 2.5 . Isai. 53.12 . Rom. 8.26.24 . Heb. 7.25 . and Saint Paul tells us , that he ever liveth to make intercession for us . And again , who always maketh intercession for us , why should we date to make more intercessors , that is , the Saints .

6. In fine to summe up all in short , your Doctrine of invocacion of the Saints , is highly injurious to God , who is a jealous God , and will onely be worship'd . It is injurious to Jesus Christ , who is the onely Mediatour between God and man . Thirdly it is injurious to our selves , for it is an argument of a diffidence and distrust in God , when we fly to the Saints for succour : and then lastly it is an impertinent and unprofitable piece of devotion , because the Saints in heaven neither do nor can hear our prayets , nor know our wants or what is done here amongst us as Job tells us , Job . 24.21 Eccles. 9.5 . his sons came to honor , and he knoweth it not , Ecclesiastes assures us , that the living know that they shall dye , but the dead know not any thing : and the Prophet Isaiah yet more plainly , Isai. 63.16 . doubtlessthou art our Father , though Abraham be ignorant of us , and Israel do not acknowledge us , &c. Thus it is plain that the Saintf in heaven are incapable to know our wants , or hear our prayers , much less to help us .

That your Doctrine of Veneration of Images is an abominable , Idolatrcus Dactrine , and prejudicial to divine Worship , I prove Thus.

First , out of the plain words of the Commandement . Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven Image , Exod. 20.4 , 5. Deut. 4.5 . & 2● . or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above , or that is in the earth beneath ; or that is in the waterunder the earth , thou shalt notbow down thy self to them , nor serve them , &c. The same thing is repeated at the latter end of Ex●dus , and in severall places of Deuteronomy ; and in many other places of the Old Testament .

2. Again we find how good Hezekiah , 2 King . 18.4 . removed the high places , and brake the Images , and brake in pieces the beazen Serpent that Moses had made &c. Yet your Religion strives to restore to Christians that kind of worship .

3 How well our Saviour is pleased with that kinde of Worship , Joh. 22 , 23 24. you may see in Saint John's Gospell , where our Saviour says , ye worship , ye know not what , &c. But the hour cometh , and now is , when the true Worshippers shall worship the Father in Spirit and in Truth , for the Father seekes such to worship him . God is a Spirit , and they that worship him , must worship him in Spirit and in Truth Now I would feign know what a Spirit hath to do with Images ? or how can the worship of Images , be thought a spiritual worship .

4 Over and above the danger of Idolatry , and many unclean thoughts , that may be occasioned by Images , I shall onely add this one Argument , against so foul a thing , and that is this , either Images are commanded , or commended for good meanes of divine worship , or they are not , if they be , then shew it by Scripture , if they be not , then it must follow , that it is a piece of will-worship , and that all Images , are meer fond and vain things .

That your , Doctrines of Indulgences , Purgatory , and Prayer for the dead , are derogatory to Gods glory , and abusive to the world , Iprove by Scripture thus .

And First , as to your business of Indulgencies , I shall give but one blow , and that I presume will be a mortall one , out of Saint Paul to the Romanes where he saith , for I reckon . that the sufferrings of this present time , Rom. 8.18 . are not worthy to be compared with the Glory which shall be revealed in me . If then the merits of the Saints upon earth , are more then enough rewarded , by the glory which the Lord is pleased to confer upon them in heaven , how can there be a superabundance of their merits , pick'd up by your Church , and laid up in a storehouse , or treasury , for the Pope to take out at his pleasure and apply to the use and advantage of other men ? which is as I am inform'd the prophane and sottish opinion of your Church .

Then as to your Doctrine of Purgatory , I shall disprove it thus .

The Prophet Daniell mentions but two ways for soules to go : The one to everlasting life , Dan. 11.2 . Matth. 25.46 . John 5.29 . the other to everlasting contempt . Our Saviour does mention no more , And these shall go away into everlasting punishment , but the Righteous into life eternall , so St. Matthew ; And again in St. Johns Gospell , They that have done good unto the Resurrection of life , and they that have done evill , unto the Resurrection of damnation . How dare any man invent a third place upon his own head , when God himself ha's appointed but two .

Again , the Scriptures plainly tells us , that those which are to be saved , go immediately to Heaven , without any stop or stay by the way , therefore your Purgatory must needs be very much out of the way . Luk. 23.43 . As first we find in Saint Lukes gospell , our Saviours own words to the Thief upon the Cross . And Iesus said unto him Verily I say unto thee , to day shalt thou be with me in Paradise : that is understood , immediately after his death , without any delay in Purgatory , Phil. 1.23 . or else where Then again St. Paul tells the Philipians , that he had a desire to depart , and to be with Christ : therefore after departure , the saved soul goes immediately to Christ , without any rubbs , stops or stays by the way : what then is become of your pitifull purgatory ? So I presume I need not trouble your Ladyship with any more arguments , to convince so foul an errour . I shall only produce one or two more against your prayer for the dead , which is a consequent of your Purgatory , and so conclude this Paper .

That your Doctrine of Prayer for the dead , is an impertinent piece of devotion , and contrary to Scripture , I prove thus .

1. It were enough for the satisfaction of any resonable person in this point , to have disproved purgatory , as I have done already , for if there be no Purgatory there can be no prayer for the dead usefull at all , but I will proceed more particularly to prove against prayer for the dead thus , The Prophet Jeremy not only forbids to pray , but to weep for the dead , saying Weep ye not for the dead , Jer. 22.10 . neither bemoan him , but weep for him that goeth , astray , &c. If the dead be not in a condition to be wept for , they are mch lesse in a condition to be pray'd for ; and by consequence again , there can be no Purgatory .

2. Luk. 7.13 . Our Saviour again in like manner forbids the Widdow to weep for her Son that was dead ; so still it follows , if there ought to be no weeping , then no Purgatory , and if no Purgatory then no prayer for the dead .

3ly . and Lastly , for the Explication of all that ha's been said , 1 Thes. 14.13 , 14 , 15.16 , 17 , 18 and the conviction of all gainsayers , Observe what St. Paul says to the Thessalonians . But I would not have you be ignorant brethren , concerning them which are asleep , that ye s●rrow not even as others which have no hope , for if we believ , &c. So to the end of the Chapter comforts them , with an assurance of resurrection to life eternall , without any the least mention of Purgatory , or prayers for the dead .

This Paper my Lady had at sooner peras'd , but she disposed her self immediately to her pen , and writ as followeth .
To what you are pleased to alledge against our Doctrine , for the invocation of the Saints in Heaven , I answer thus .

To your first , second , third , and fourth I shall answer together , and with good reason , for there runs the same fallacy along with them all ; and I do wonder you should be so deluded by the Sophismes of your Doctors ; for those very Arguments that they have furnished you withall against us in this point , do as well take away the Intercession of Christ himself , and the prayers of the Saints living upon earth , as the intercession of the Saints in heaven . For if this be a good consequence , God is only to be worshipt ; therefore it is not lawfull to invoke the Saints in heaven , then this must be a good consequence too , God is only to be worshipped ; therefore it is not lawfull to invoke or desire the Saints on earth to pray for us : For this word only exclude ; as well one as the other ; and must of necessity , as well condemn the invocation of the Saints Militant , which all of you use , and the Apostle himself did too , as the invocation of the Saints Triumphant . Besides we do acknowledge it to be our duty to pray and ask of God , and to pray and ask in Jesus his name , and to pray and to ask with confidence , as the Apostle would have us , but nothing of all this can make an exclusion of the Saints . For by the Saints , as our fellow Members , we pray in the name of Jesus our head ; wherfore our Church always doth conclude its Collects of the Saints , with through Jesus Chirst our Lord ; and you are to understand , that though God be most good , most gracious , and merciful , yet he is a God of order , and disposeth of all things so sweetly , that all Inferiours may lead us to Superiours , and so in this particular case , our Church is likewise well pleased , that we should come boldly to the Throne of Grace , to the fountain of Grace , Father of Mercy , and God of all comforts ; but this she tels us , that we may more commodiously do it by the Saints , then only by our selves , who are most miserable sinners , and so must of necessity be abhorred by him : And the Scripture tels us , that our God is a consuming fire ; and we may justly fear lest we perish before his face , as wax melteth before the face of the fire , Deut. 4. Heb. 13.19 . and for this we beg the mediation and intercession of the blessed Saints in heaven .

To the fifth .

To what you urge out of the Apostle to Timothy , that there is but one Mediator I do acknowledge , that there is but one Mediator of Redemption , that is Jesus Christ , because he alone redeemed Mankinde ; nor is there any other name under heaven , by which we can be saved , but that hinders not but that there may be more Mediators of intercession ; so then there is but one Mediator by Redemption , as but one Saviour ; for he is the only good Shepherd , who gave his life for his flock ; but there are more Mediators by intercession , as the Scripture names more Saviours , Mediators , and Redeemers too . Moses says of himself , that he was set apart or chosen for a Mediator between God and the children of Israel . Again , he raised up a Redeemer , Deliverer , or Saviour to them , one Othoniel ; Deut. 3. Judg. 3.9 . Nehem. 9 : Gen. 4.1 and Nehemiah tels us how God did raise unto the children of Israel Saviours , and Pharoah calls Joseph a Saviour .

To the sixth .

I say , that as to the injury which you pretend , done to God , by the invoking of his Saints , I have sufficiently answered already , in my return to your first Arguments ; for the injury which you alledge done to Christ , I answer in like manner , if this be a good consequence , Christ is our only Mediatour ; therefore we do an injury to him , to invoke the Saints in heaven , then this must be likewise a good Argument , therefore it is injurious to Christ , to invoke the Saints upon earth , and that you all are guilty of , praying one another to pray for you , and doubtless you do not do amiss in it . Again , if we shew our diffidence , and distrust in Christs Mediation , by invoking the Saints in heaven , then it will follow likewise that you diffide in Christs mediation , by invoking one another , or any Saints upon earth .

As for your supposition ( which indeed is the strength of your Argument ) that the Saints in heaven do not hear our prayers , nor know what is done amongst●ns , and therefore must be much less able to help us , and as to the places of Scripture , which you pretend to bring to that purpose , I answer , that they all signifie nothing ; for here we speak not of those , who in the time of the Old Testament , were either in Hell , or in the Limbus that was appointed for them ; but of the Saints , that since the time of the New Testament are in heaven ; we may safely grant that all those were ignorant of what was done here , bua that proves nothing as to these last beattifi'd souls in heaven . And yet I know , you 'l be importunate to know how the Saints should be capable to hear our prayers , and understand our inward affections and desires . I would ask you again , how the Saints in this life , can know the secrets of other mens counsels , and contrivances . 1 Sam. 19. Samuel knew all things which were in the heart of Saul , and told him all that was in his heart . 2 Kings 5.26 . 2 Kin. 6.33 Did not Elishah know all things that were done by his servant that was at a great distance from him , and so the same Prophet knew all the secret Counsels of the King of Syria . Dan. 2.26 . Did not Daniel know the dream of Nebuchadnezzar , and the interpretation of it , before he sent to him , and did not the Apostle Saint Peter know the hidden fraud , and close collusions of Ananias and Saphira : And to conclude , I would fain know , what things were they which were hidden from the Prophets , though never so close from the eyes of men ? And can these things be done on earth , and not possibly be done in heaven ?

Now that this veneration , or invocation of Saints is expresly commanded in Scripture I cannot say , nor see any reason that it should be ; first it could not be well in the old Testament , where the people were so prone to idolatry , and the Patriarchs besides were but in a Limbus , Esay 63. reposed till our Saviours triumphant entry into heaven , so they could not be beatified or made capable of hearing of prayers of men : and therefore it was said , Abraham knows us not , and Israel does not acknowledge us . Again under the Gospel it was not absolutely commanded , least the Gentiles that were newly turned from Paganisme , should believe that they were brought again to the worship of earthly gods ; for that was their use , to worship their deified persons , not as Patrons but as very Gods indeed ; as at Lyraania , they would have sacrificed to Paul and Barnabas . Besides if the Apostles and Evangelist , had taught expresly that the Saints are to be prayed to , it might have been thought as a piece of arrogance in them , as if they had been after death , ambitious of that honour to be done to them . The holy Spirit therefore would not by express Scripture , teach this doctrine of veneration and invocation of Saints , but the Church being once establisht , quickly found by the Miracles and succours , that those Saints performed to men , that they were to be worshipt , and invoked with prayers , that they would please to pray for us : and this is a worship far different from that , which we pay to God , therefore no way prejudicial to the divine Majesty , no ; though express Scripture , as I said , we have none for this , yet very much inclining to , and favouring of our purpose .

That the saints , the freinds of God , are to be implored that they will please to intercede for us , I prove by express Scripture thus .

Our Saviour in S. Johns Gospell saies thus , if any man serve me , John 12.26 . him will my Father honor , if therefore God does honor his saints , why should not we mortalls give honour to them ? Our Saviour saies again in S. Mat. 25.40 Mathews . Gospell verily I say unto you insomuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my bretheren ye have done it unto me ; the honour therefore that is given to the saints of God , he takes as done unto himself .

We finde in Job how Eliphaz saies to him , Call now if there be any that will answer thee , Job 5.1 . and to which of the saints wilt thou turn ? which words though Eliphaz spoke , yet Job reprehends them not , but takes it as wholsome councell from his freind .

Again in another place , Job 42.1 , 9 , 10. the Lord himself saies , go to my servant Job , and my servant Job shall pray for you , for him will I accept , least I deal with you after your folly &c. so they did as the Lord commanded them , the Lord also accepted Job , and the Lord turned the captivity of Job , when he prayed for his freinds &c.

Then we finde how Absalon after he was reconciled to his father , 2 Sam. 14.28 . staid two years in Jerusalem , before he saw his fathers face , so a sinner though reconsiled to God , will not dare presently to thrust himself before his divine Majesty , that he has offended , but by mediators and intercessors .

The wisest of Kings Solomon , rose up to meet his mother , and bowed himself unto her , 1 Kings 2.19 . and caused a throne to be set , for his mother , and she sate on his right hand , and shall not Jesus Christ , a greater and a wiser than Solomon , honour his mother in the like kinde ?

It is most manyfest that the Angells are assisting to us , and pray for us , Mat. 2.8 . Mark 12 Psalm 33 then why should not we pray to them , and there is the same reason for the saints , as for the Angells ; who are their equalls in heaven as we finde in the holy Gospells , Psalm 90. how freequently in the Psalmes does the Royal prophet speak of Gods sending his Angells to snatch us out of dangers , to gard us , and to keep us in all our ways &c. Then we finde in the Prophet Zachcariah , Zach. 1.12.13 . how the Angel of the Lord interceded for the people in these words , O Lord of Hoste , how long wilt thou not have mercy on Jerusalem , Heb. 1.7 and on the Cities of Judah , against which thon hast bad indignation these threescore and ten years , and the Lord answered the Angell with good words , and comfortable words . Then S. Acts 12.12.7 , 8. Paul calls the Angels minnistring spirits , and we finde how freequently they have delivered Gods servants , as S. Peter out of prison &c. now I say if it be in the power of the Angells in heaven to help us by their prayers , the same reason will hold for the saints , who are as the Evangelists aforesaid tell us their equalls , both in their favour , and power with God . And that they do too , is as manifest , for the Lord has sometimes sought for a saint , to stand in the gap , as he saies himself in Ezeckiel , Ezek. 22.30.31 . and I sought for a man amongst them , that should make up the hedge , and stand in the gap before me for the land , that I should not destroy it , but I found none , therefore have I powred out mine indignation upon them , I have consumed them with the fire of my wrath &c. therefore did the Lord do it for want of an acceptable intercesor .

But it is most cleer in the Apocalyps , Revel. 4. & 5. how the four beasts and four and twenty elders are continually falling down before the Lamb and interceding for the faithfull on earth , with their Violls full of precious oyntments , which are the prayers of the saints . And then again it is expressly said , that another Angell came and stood at the Altar , haveing a golden censer , Revel. 8.3.4 . and there was given unto him much incense that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints , upon the golden Alter , which was before the Throne , and the smoke of the incense , which came with the prayers of the faints ascended up before God , out of the Angels hand &c.

If yet there be any doubt remaining , me thinks meer reason raised from a most undoubted Scripture , should cleer this point , as first we finde , and I thinke no body questions it , that Jesus Christ , as he is man does continually interde for all mankinde , especially his faithfull ones , if any man does doubt , let him look into S. Paul , to the Romans , Rom. 8. Heb. 7. and Hebrews , where it is positively said in divers places , that Jesus Christ does constantly interecde for us . And S. John tells us , if any man have sinned , 1 John 2. we have an Advocate with the Father , Jesus Christ the righteous , and he is the propitiation for our sins , nor for our sins onely but for the sins of the whole world . If therefore Christ our head according to his humanity pray for us , why should not his members , the saints that rain with him , and are conformable to him , intercede likewise in their proportion , for their fellow members uppon earth , for we are all members of the same mysticall body .

Again the liveing pray for one another and frequently obtain ? Exod. 17 & 31. Mat. 15. Luke 7. Acts 17. Collos. 4.2 . 2 Thes. 3.1 . as Moses pray'd and obtained for the people , the woman of Canan for her daughter , the Centurion for his servant , Paul for those that sailed with him . Nay S. Paul desired the Colossians to be instant in prayer , and particularly for himself and so to the Thessalonians , he says , finally hretheren pray for us , that the word of the Lord may have free course &c. If therefore the living may pray for one another why may not the glorifyed saints in heaven do the same for us , who are more perfect in charity , more powerfull with God , and more pure in understanding ? for if they may not pray for us , as the living do , it would appear unworthy of Christs grace and favour to them , which we cannot apprehend ; or it must be because it is a purpose of the excellency , that it is fiting onely for Christ himself to do it , and no person else , and then it will not be lawfull for us mortals to pray for one another . But that we know the contrary by what has been before set down , and as S. Paul does earnestly beseech the Romans , Rom. 15.30.31 . James 5.16 . for the Lord Jesus Christ sake , and for the love of the Spirit , that they pray to God for him , So I do humbly beseech , the blessed mother of God , and all the saints of heaven , to pray for me , and all the world besides . And so as S. Iames adviseth us , let us pray one for another , that we may be saved . I pray you heer take notice , that I have made use of no Scripture out of Baruch the Machabees , or any parts of Scripture , which you question for Apocrypha , though by all the Canons of the Church they are received , so I proceed .

To what you alledge against our use of images , which you call an abominable and idolatorrious doctrine , I answer thus .
To the first .

I say that God Allmighty in that commandment , has sufficiently explained his own minde , both in the precedent , and subsequent words , for as he did forbid the worship of strange Gods , so he forbide the Images of them to be erected . But we worship not the saint ; for Gods , therefore we are not at all prohibited by that commandment , to set up their Images . For in the first place he saies , thou shalt have no strange Gods before me , then follows ; thou shalt not make to thee any graven Image &c. then last of all , thou shalt not bow down to them , nor worship them . see then the whole drift of that commandment is evident , that Images should not be made to that end , and purpose , and so we concur with you . For if to make and erect Images were absolutly , and in it self unlawfull , then it would follow that Moses himself had sinnd , immediately after the giving of that commandment nay that God Almighty had shewed the first way to breake his own commandment , for God commanded Moses thus , Exod. 25.18 . And thou shalt make two Cherubims of Gold , of beaten work shalt thou make them , in the two ends of the mercy seat , It would likewise follow , 1 King . 7 that Solomon had sinnd in his Architecture of the Temple , when he made twelve litle Lions and set them over the Throne . And when he made Oxen , Lions , and Cherubims or brasen bases . Thus we see the end to which those Images are made , and erected , does alltogether alter the case .

To the Second .

I grant that Hezekiah broke the brasen serpents Image , therefore must the Image of Christ and his saints be broken , I deny it . First because the Image of the brazen serpent was made by Moses , 2 Kings 18. that they which were bitten by the firey serpents should look upon it , and be healed ; so long as that end lasted , the Image lasted , but that ceasing , it was fit for nothing else , but to be broken . Then the brazen serpent began to be an occasion of idolatry , and they burnt incense to it , so then it ought to be broken , but the Image of Christ and his saints cannot be occasions of that amongst Christians , for we retain , the use of Images , only as they are the representations of him from whom we have received so great benefits , and of those his blessed servants , who are to be our examples

To the Third .

I grant to you that God is , and ought to be worshipt in Spirit and in truth , which that we may do the better , we make use of images , for they put us in mind of our duties , and call us to a remembrance of those benefits we have received , which cannot but inspire a devotion into a heart of stone . And why I would fain know , or wherein a spiritual worship should be at all hindred by the sight of an image , more then the opperation of Sacraments , be taken off , by the sensible signes whereunder they lye , and as under those visible signs , we receive an invisible grace , so are we led by the visible images of Christ and his Saints , to the true and spiritual worship of those things invisible , of which they are but the representations .

To the fourth .

I say , there can be no danger at all of Idolatry amongst Christians , for there is none so simple but knows , that the veneration that is used , referres not at all to the image of wood , Stone or Brass , but to the prototype , or person represented , and that is enough to rectifie their intentions ; then for the danger of unclean thoughts , there is care sufficiently taken by the Church , to inhibite Painters and Carvers , all manner of laciviousness , or probable dispositions towards it . Then as to your argument that you think is so strange , and in your opinion caries horns with it , you will finde upon better examination , that they are but a pair of ears . You say either images are commanded , or they are not , if they be , then we are to shew it in Scripture , if they be not , then you say , it must follow , that it must be a will worship , or Idolatry . I answer , some things are commanded in Scripture , and yet not to be observed , as the observation of the Sabbath day holy , or sanctifying it , as the Scripture speaks , as also the forbearing of things strangled , and of blood &c. It is enough to satisfie any reasonable Christian , that the Church hath appointed images to be set up , for the use of Christians , as I say , for profitable , and almost necessary expedients to their devotion . So I return your horn'd argument upon your self , thus , either to sanctifie , or celebrate the Lords day , that is the first day of the week , is commanded , or it is not , if it be , let Scripture be shew'd for it ; if it be not , then it is will worship , a fond , and a vain thing to do it , and that I am sure , none of your Church , will ever yeeld to .

That the use of Images is lawfull , and profitable in the Church of God , I prove by Scripture thus .

I must confess we have nothing express in the the new Testament for it , and the reason I conceive was the fierceness of the primitive persecution , which would hardly permit the persons of Christians to meet , much less to adorn their meeting places , with images or any thing else . And yet we have it by universal Tradition , that the use of images is Apostolicall , and that we have our authority for the use of them , from the Apostles themselves . Then we have in our Ecclesiastical histories , as how our Saviour sent his picture to Abagarus King of the Edessens , which is yet as ( I am informed ) preserved and to be seen at Genoa . Then we have again in the same story , that our Saviour himself imprest the picture of his countenance upon a piece of linen cloth , which he gave to Veronica , by the virtue of which picture , the Emperour Tiberius was recovered from a dangerous disease , and for that reason Cesar would have decreed to Christ divine honours . Then again we have in history , and clear Tradition that S. Luke the Evangelist did draw the picture of the blessed virgin , which was for many ages preserved in great veneration : and to say that there were no Painters , Mark 22 Carvers or Engravers in that age , is most extreamly false , for we finde our Saviour asking in the Gospel , whose image and superscription is this ? But all this I must pass by , because we have resolved to insist onely upon Scripture , and in the old Testament we finde enough .

First we finde in Exodus , as a foresaid , Exod. 25.18 . and thou shalt make two Cherubims of gold , of beaten work shalt thou make them , in the two ends of the mercy-seat . Numb. 21.8 . Then we finde the Lord saying to Moses , make thee a fiery Serpent , and set it upon a Pole , and it shall come to pass that every one that is bitten , when he looketh upon it , be shall live , and Moses did so , and it was a certain cure to them . Now this Brazen Serpent , was the figure or Type of Christ , hanging upon the Cross , for as they that were bitten by the fiery Serpents , were cured by looking upon the Brazen Serpent , so all they that are bitten by the devil , are cured by a faithful looking upon Jesus Christ Crucified , as we finde in the Gospel of S. John , from whence I think I may conclude . The figure must of necessity be of less value than the thing that is figured . as Moses who was likewise the figure of Christ , was of much less value then Christ himself , the Paschal Lamb less to be esteemed then our Eucharist , and circumcision than Baptism . If then the image of the Brazen Serpent was honour'd , as we know it was , how much more ought the image of Christ be honoured ? nay it is plain that the Serpent had not been honoured at all , but as it was the figure or shadow of the image of Christ upon the Cross , nor had it cured those that were bitten by the fiery Serpents , but by the virtue of Christ , who cures still all that are bitten by the devil . As to the breaking of it by Hezekiah , I have hinted already , that the end for which it was made ceased , it was of no use longer then the children of Israel were in the wildernes , for there was no more danger of Serpents in the land of promise . But the image of Christ Crucified is made to this end , to represent to us our bleeding Saviour , and to call to minde those benefits that we receive by that his bitter death and passion , now this end , must last till the end of the world , therefore his image is still to be retained , and kept with honour for ever . 2 King . 8 Besides the brazen Serpent , after the end of its making ceased , began to be as a foresaid an occasion of Idolatry , which the image of Christ cannot be amongst us Christians , for we know it is set up to no other intent of purpose , then to represent our Saviour , and his benefits to us .

Again , Levi. 26.1 . Josh. 24.26 . we finde in Leviticus forbidden to make idols , or graven images , nor to rear up a standing image , nor to set up any graven stone in the land , and yet we finde that Joshua , took a great stone , and set it up there under an oak that was by the Sanctuary of the Lord : and so the Altar that was built by the children of Reuben , and Gad , and the half tribe of Manasseh , was permitted to them , though contrary to their Law , so soon as they had satisfied their brethren , Iosh. 22. that there was no intention of Idolatry , in their so doing , and in the like maner did Samuel , which I have before insisted upon .

Again , if to set up Images in the house of God , had been absolutly Idolatry , 1 Kings 7 would Solomon have done it ? Nay it was done by Gods own order ; so many Lions , Oxen , and Cherubims ; and all carrying a divine morall , or signification with them , had never sure been set up in that glorious Temple , the beloved house of God , if they had not been as well usefull , as lawfull , and specious . And so let the use remain in the name of God , and the abuse be taken away .

In the last place I beseech you tell me now , if that Scripture , and the whole Church were filent in this case ; by what reason you proceed when you endeavour with so much charge and artifice , to paint , adorne , and preserve the statues and Pictures of Princes , and great persons , the pictures of Parents , Children , husbands , and wives , you will not deny but this you do , and you think well done too . What madness therefore must it needs appear to be in you , to contemn the picture of Christ , Spit upon his Images , or throw durt in the faces of them , beat e'm down , abolish , or exterminate them would not any indifferent person say , that sees those actions , that you have a greater kindness for a parent , kinsman , child , or freind , then you have for your Crucified God , I must tell you , that a good honest Pagan would blush and be troubled at it , a good Jew would no doubt be pleased at the action , yet angry with all those that did it ; and none but the Devil could rejoyce , and make sport with it . I am sure , I pitty it , as the action of poor blind men , that are led by those that are willfully blind that is blinder than themselves .

To what you are pleased to alledge against our doctrines of Indulgencies , Purgatory and prayer for the dead , I answer thus .
To the first .

Now first as to the matter of Indulgencies you say you have but one blow to give me , but that must be a mortall one , and that must be out of S. Paul to the Romans ; well I shall freely and humbly grant all that the holy Apostle saies , that nothing that we suffer , heer can be compared to the glory that we are to receive , by his favour he●reafter . But you must understand , that as the works of Jesus Christ upon earth , so are those of his saints heer , as well satisfactory , as mertorious . For he merited both for himself . & us . For himself he merited , because by the humility of his passion , he merited the glory of his Resurrection , for so S. Paul tells us , Phil. 2.9 , 10. that being found in fashion as a man , he humbled himself and became obedient unto death ; even the death of the Cross , wherefore God hath highly exalted him , and given him a name , which is above every name &c. Then he merited for us , Rom. 5.17 , 18 , 19. as S. Paul declares to the Romans , for if by one mans offence death reigned by one , much more they which receive abundance of grace , and of the gift of righteousness , shall reign in life by Jesus Christ therefore as by the offence of one , judgment came upon all men to condemnation ; even so by the righteousness of one , the free gift came upon all men to justification of life for as by one mans , disobedience many were made sinners so by the obedience of one , shall many be made righteous &c. For all this his works were meritorious . Now they were satisfactory , not for his own sins , because he had non as S. Peter tells us , Who did no sin , 1 Pet. 2.22 . Esay 5.4.5 , 6. Ephes. 5.2 . 1 Pet. 2.24 . neither was guil found in his mouth , but for our sins , as is apparent out of scripture , he was wounded for our transgression and brused for our iniquities , the chastisment of our peace was upon him , and with his stripes we are healed , All we like sheep have gone astray , we have turned every one to his own way . and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all &c. therefore S. Paul tells us , that he hath given himself for us an offering , and a sacrifice to God for a sweet smelling savour . and S. Peter saies that his own self bare our sins in his own body on the Tree , that we being dead to sin , should live unto righteousness , by whose stripes we are healed , 1 John 2 2. and S. John assures us , that he is the propitiation for our sins , and not for ours onely , but also for the sins of the whole world . just so we are to conceive of the works and sufferings of the saints , which as they are meritorious , are more then enough , and infinitly beyond their merit remunerated , as the Apostle whom you so urge , does diliver to us . But as they are satisfactory for punishment , we do finde that there are many saints , who have satisfyed and suffered more than they ought to have done for their own sins ; as is plain in holy Job , Job 6.2.3 . in whose book and divers others of holy writ , it is said , that he suffered much more than he deserved , and S. Paul speakes it most plainly of himself , Colos. 1.24 . thus , who now rejoyce in my sufferings for you , and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh , for his b●dies sake which is the Church . Can any thing be more plain than this for the doctrine of Indulgence , that the residue of his satisfaction and sufferings , should be added to the sufferings of Christ , and applyed to the body of Christ , that is his Church , out of the treasury of Indulgencies ? And sure this satisfaction of the saints , does turn to their greatest glory . As for example , if the satisfaction and suffering of La●erence , does pay the punishment due to John , being a penitent , will not Laurence have a kinde of additionall joy in heaven , for that , his satisfaction has paid for his brother John , and so the works of the saints , as they are sattisfactory and penall , are perfectly remunerated to the Saints , in that others enjoy the benefit of them , being aplyed by the Churches indulgencies . And this you may please to accept , not onely for a sufficient answer , but also a reply , as to this particular .

To what you are pleased to alledge against our doctrine of Purgatory I answer thus .
To the first .

I grant that which those texts you urge requir which is that after the day of judgement there shall be but too places , for those which are grown in years , and that is all which can be enforced out of those Texts . But as yet there are , as also ther were in the old Testament , more places , or receptacles for souls . And truly granting that there were but too ; I would fain have you , or any man to tell me ; where the fouls of those were who died , and were afterwards raised again to life ? I would fain know I say , how the son of the widow of Sarepta , was raised by Elias , how the Shunamites son was raised by Elisha , how the Son of the widdow in Naim , and the daughter of Jarus , the Ruler of the synagoge , and Lazarus , in Beth●ny were raised by Jesus Christ ; how Tabitha was raised by S. Peter , and Eu●yous by S. Paul ? I would fain know , I say where the souls of these persons were between the time of their death , and there raising to life ? They could not be in Hell , for from thence there is no redemption . Nor in heaven , for then it had been so far from being a benefit , as it would have proved a loss , if from the joys beatitudes there , they should return to miserable mortal life . It must then follow of necessity , that they were in some third place , distinct from heaven , and from Hell , so call it what you will , your argument is answered .

To the second .

I answer and grant , what you collect out of those Scriptures which you quote , that the righteous after this life ended , are presently admitted into heavenly glory , but I must tell you , not all the righteous neither , who leave nothing to be purged out of them , after this life , they questionless are admitted presently into heaven . But they that have any thing to be expiated , left in them , shall be admitted in Gods good time , but so as by fire ; as the Apostle tells us . Nor are your testimonies out of Scripture any thing importing to the contrary . F●r that , to day shalt , thou be with 〈◊〉 in Paradice , was a singular thing , and particular priviledge indulged to the good Theife , to whom Christ did most liberally forgive all his sins without any further obligation of temporall punishment after death , ●ut this is not granted to all no more than the priviledge of one , is to be drawn into a president for another . Then out of that Text , I desire to be dissolved and to be with Christ , nothing else can be collected , then that the Apostle had a great desire to live with Christ , which desire , you and I may likewise have , especially , if we can truly say , with the same Apostle , I do chastise my body , and bring it into subjection . Such a mortification as that on earth , may give us indeed a present life in heaven ; which God of his mercy grant us both , and all the world besides , if so be it may confist with his blessed will .

To what you say against our doctrine of praying for the dead which is a consequence of Purgatory I answer thus .
To the first .

To what you alledge out of the Prophet Jeremy , I answer that the Prophet Jeremy does not speake it absolutly of all the dead , but of one onely , that was the King Joachas , who died in captivity in Egypt , so saith the Prophet . Weep not for the dead , neither bemoane him , but weep for your following Kings , und●er whom you are to suffer greater Tribullation .

To the Second .

I grant that Christ did forbid the widdow to weep for her Son , but it was , because he was immediately to raise him from the dead , so she was not to weep for him as dead , but to be comforted , for the miraculous life which he was to receive . I must profess that I see not a word against Purgatory , or prayer for the dead in all this .

To the Third and Last .

I say that which you bring so confidently out of S. Paul , as a most invinsible and unanswerable argument , give me leave to tell you comes off but very lamely for you , for the words of the Text , do sufficiently cleer themselves , that ye sorrow not , for those that sleep , as others which have no hope ; so we agree , that to weep for the dead out of any dispaire of a future resurrection , is so far from being the practice of our Church that we hold it to be a sin , or to weep for a dead friend out of diffidence that we shall never see him again , or a fear that we have for ever lost him , is very injunious to God and Christianity ; but when we weep & ad●prayers to our tears in the behalf of our dead friends , we are so far from weeping , as those without hope , that we testify our Christian Confidence , and assurance in the Security of his condition , for being in Purgatory he is sure of salvation , though he may stay some time for it , to pay the temporall punishment there due for his sins heer .

That there is a third place , which we call Purgatory , and that the prayers of the faithfull upon earth , are very helpfull to them , I prove thus .

First we finde it delivered at large by S. 1 Cor. 3.12 , 13 , 14 , 15. Paul in these words . Now if any man build upon this foundation , gold , silver , precious stones , wood , hay , stubble , every mans work shall be made manifest , for the day shall declare it , because it shall be revealed by fire , and the fire shall try every mans work of which sort it is , if any mans work shall be burnt , he shall suffer loss , but he himself shall be saved , yet so as by fire . Here it is most plain , that though a man do works to be burnt , as shall appear in the day of every mans particular judgement , that is his death , yet he shall be saved by fire , that cannot be meant of infernal fire , for from thence there is no redemption , it must be then understood of Purgatory .

Our Saviour in the Gospels implys Purgatory plainly , though under a Parable , in these words . Matth. 5.25.26 . Luke 12.38 . Agree with thine adversary quickly whilest thou art in the way with him , least at any time the adversary deliver thee to the Judge , and the Judge deliver thee to the officer , and thou be cast into Prison , verily I say unto thee , thou shalt by no means come out thence , till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing This prison our Saviour speaks of has been always received by the Church for Purgatory .

Again our Saviour says in S. Mat. 12.32 . Matthews Gospel that whosoever speaketh against the holy Ghost , it shall not be forgiven him , neither in this world , nor in the world to come . By which it is manifest that some sins are to be purged , and forgiven in the next world .

S. Paul , is likewise very plain in this , in his Epistle to the Philippians , Phil. 2.10 . wherein he tells them that at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow of things in heaven , and things in earth , and things under the earth . Here are cleerly three sorts of persons spoken of , as for those under the earth it is impossible , should be meant of those in hell , no the damned souls are so far from paying a reverence to the name of Jesus that they are always busie in blaspheming of it , it must then of necessity be the faithful souls that are in Purgatory .

In the like manner we finde in the Revelation of S. Revel. 5.13 . John , how the Apostle saw every creature which is in heaven , and on the earth , and under the earth , and sea and all that are in them , and heard them saying , blessing , hnour , glory and power be unto him that sitteth upon the throne , and to the Lamb for ever and ever . Now observe how the Apostle makes a threefold order of the prayers of God , first of the blessed in heaven , then of the righteous upon earth , than of those that remain to be purged under the earth , and it must be so understood for the damned in hell , as I said before , are so far from praysing and glorifying of God , and blessing him that fits upon the Throne , that their malice does wholely imploy it self in cursing and blaspheming of his divine Majesty , and all the blessed souls with him .

Again , 2 Mach. 15. Mat. 17. Mark 9. Luke 9.24 . a great evidence of the truth of Purgatory , and a convincing one indeed , may be taken from the frequent apparitions of many departed souls , to pass by those in the Machabees of Onias and Hieremias that appeared to Judas , we finde that Moses and Elias did appear to Christ when he was transfigured , and the disciples themselves , after the resurrection of our Saviour , when he appeared to them thought that they had seen a spirit , which they would never have thought , unless they had known that the spirits of some departed , did make usual apparitions , now granting such a thing , as the apparition of a spirit , which I take to be already proved , it must follow that those souls must be reposed in some place that is not in heaven , for then they would never wander here to so great a loss , nor can they be in hell , from whence there is no redemption .

Again , we finde the Theif upon the Cross saying to our Saviour , Lord remember me , when thou comest into thy kingdom , which he had never said , but that he thought that Jesus Christ had a power to pardon sins after this Life . S. Paul likewise was certainly of this opinion , where he tells the Corrinthians thus , else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead , if the dead rise not at all , why are they then baptized for the dead ? which plainly shews that it was a practised course amongst the Christians then to undertake duties and voluntary afflictions in the behalf of the dead ; which sure was imagined to be for their advantage , and yet you think much to pray for them .

Now the reason of all this is very cleer , for we know that a man who sins mortally , may have the mortality of that sin forgiven him , and consequently be freed from the guilt of eternal punishment , and yet may be obnoxious to some temporal penalties , which if he does not satisfie in this life , he must expect to do it in the next . As for example , we see a King does often pardon an offender his life , which he has forfeited to the Law , and deserved to loose , and yet he may inflict banishment , or imprisonment , upon the same person , and this very course we finde taken by God in Scripture . Num. 20 12. Deut. 32.48 . 2 Sam. 12.13 , 14. 2 Sam. 24.10 . First we see the sin of unbelief forgiven by God , to Moses and Aaron , that is as to the eternal punishment , and yet they were punisht with a temporal death . Again we finde King David , after he had obtained a pardon for his fins of Adultery and Murder , was punisht yet with the death of his son , nay after the prophet Nathan had declared , that the Lord had put away his sin , he should not dye yet his son must , and again the same King David for his sin of pride in numbring the people , was pardoned , as to the eternal guilt , and yet we see what a temporal punishment followed upon it ; and he was forced to choose one of the three Plagues for it . I might be infinite in examples of the like kinde , but I have something else to say to this point , so must not insist too long in that particular of it . We know again , that a righteous man may sometimes happen to dye with a great many venial sins about him , especially if he be prevented with any sudden death so cannot possibly have time enough to bethink himself , much less to repent of them , so must still remain obnoxious to the temporal punishment , that is due to those sins , certainly in such a case , that person cannot be admitted into the joyes and glory of heaven , till he be freed from those venial sins , and the guilt of that temporal punishment that is due for them . So we finde in the Revelation , that there shall in no wise enter into it , Rev. 21.27 . any thing that defileth neither whatsoever worketh abomination , or maketh a lye &c. now such a person is possible to be , and we may very well suppose it , that he cannot be freed in this life , therefore after it , it must be : nor can this be in Heaven , or in Hell , therefore it must be in Purgatory .

Over and above all this , the undeniable practise of the Church in praying for the dead is a most invincible argument for Purgatory , and no man can deny , but that custome is much ancienter than Christianity , and has continued ever since That it was ancienter then Christianity , we finde in the Machabees , which book though you shut out of the Cannon of holy Scripture , ( with as much reason as you do other things ) yet you allow it more credit than any ordinary Author , 2 Mach. 12.43 , 44 , 45. how then should it fail so grossy as to make a lye in matter of fact as well as matter of faith . We are told there of a sacrifice offered for the dead , and that he sent two thousand Drachmes of silver to Jerusalem , to offer a sin-offering , doing therein very well and honestly , in that he was mindeful of the resurrection : for if he had not hoped that they that were slain , should have risen again , it had been superfluous and vain to pray for the dead , and also in that he perceived that there was a great favour laid up for those that dyed godly ( it was a holy and good thought whereupon he made a reconciliation for the dead , and that they might be delivered from sin . 2 Tim. 1.16 , 18. But if you will deny the authority of this book , you will not sure deny that of S. Paul , who prays for the whole household of Onesiphorus , some whereof were dead in all probability , and Onesiphous himself dead in history , before the writing of that Epistle , wherefore he prays to the Lord to give mercy unto them and that Onesiphorus himself may finde mercy of the Lord , in that day ; it is plain from hence , that there is a capacity for mercy at the lastday by consequence therefore there must be a third place , that is nesther Heaven nor Hell , and so by consequence again , prayer for the dead must be a a very good devotion , and available to the case , and release of those poor souls . And to this truly , if all Scripture were perfectly silent , the practise of the Church of Christ has been cleer and universal , that no prudent Christian can deny his assent , if he be not resolved to shake the very foundations of Christianity it self . which the gates of bell , shall never prevail against .

Thus my Lady having dispatcht her answer and replies to this paper , made hast to open the next , which she found to this purpose following .

Madam , this is the last paper that I shall be bold to offer to your Ladiship , which indeed might have served for all the rest , for it striks at the very root of all your Religion , and what a pitiful , weak , and sandy foundation you have you shall see if you shall please impartially to consider what followes .

That your Pope or Bishop of Rome , is not , nor can be head of the Church of Christ , nor S. Peter successor as you pretend , nor has any priminary , or superiority over other Bishops . I prove out of Scripture thus .

1 S. Rom. 12.5 . Paul tells the Romans plainly that we being many are one body in Christ and every one members , one of another . Heer the Apostle acknowledgeth no head but Christ , and concludes Peter to be as much a member , as any one of the faithfull and that not onely in respect of Christ we are members , but in respect of our selves is cleer by those words , every one members , one of another so that Peter , Pope or Bishop be he what he will is not onely a member of the body of the Church , as he has relation to Christ the head , but as he does relate to the other faithfull members .

2 Again as the head and the other members , make up one entire naturall body , 1 Cor. 12 so Christ and his Church make up ; one entire mysticall body , which is so made up of head and members as the Apostle tells us , therefore all others besides Christ who is the head , are but members of the body of the Church , and none but Christ can be the head of the Church .

3 We finde in the Gospells , Math. Mark Luke John that Jesus Christ does equally commend the care of his Churh to all his Apostles , for he said to all the rest as well as Peter , as the father sent me , so send I you again , go ye and teach all Nations &c. then again we know that he did teach , and instruct them all equally , and sent the holy Ghost to them all equally , and indifferently at the time of Pentecost , therefore Peter had no priveledge nor prehemminence over the rest .

4 S. Gal. 2.11 Paul tells us , that when Peter was come to Antioch , he withstood him to the face , because he was to be blamed , therefore Peter was not then taken for the head of the Church ; For S. Paul had he beleived that , would not have shewed such arrogancy , and perversness as to resist the head of the Church in such an open manner .

5. Then it is manifest that the Church of Christ could not be built upon the person of Peter , for then the gates of Hell had prevailed against it and him , when he was terrified from his faith by the voice of a silly wench . And so by consequence it cannot be built upon his successors , who are dayly guilty of such personall crimes .

6 Again we finde that the Church of Christ is built upon a Rock , and that Rock was Christ , 1 Cor. 3. 1 Cor. 10 therefore it could never be understood of Peter for another foundation can no man lay , besides that which is already laid , as the Apostle tells us .

7 Then it is very disputable , whether Peter was ever at Rome , and sure we are out of Scripture , that he was eighteen years at least after our Saviours passion in and about Jerusalem , where was then the Romane Church .

8 Then again how could Peter be the Rock upon which he would build his Church when our Saviour himself said to him , Mat. 16. get thee behind me satan , he never intended , sure satan should be the head of his Church , as it is too much to be feared he makes himself now to be of yours .

9 We cannot finde that S. Peter did ever exercise any power or jurisdiction over the other Apostles , Acts 8. but they did plainly over him , when they sent him and John into Samaria .

10 Again Peter knew fullwell that such a power or superiority was expresly forbiden by our Saviour himself , Mat. 20.25 . Mark 10.46 . Luke 22.24.25 . in all the Gospeles ; you know , saith he , that they which are accounted to rule over the Gentils , exercise Lordship over them and their great ones exercise authority upon them , but so shall it not be amongst you but whosoever will be great amongst you shall be your Minister & who soever of you will be the cheifest shall be servant of all . All which our Saviour spok rebuke a strife that was amongst them who should be the greatest ? Nay it is plain by the Text in all those Gospells , that it is onely for the Kings and rulers of the Earth to take upon them power and Authority , Bishops therefore of the Church have nothing to do with it , therefore not the Pope .

11 Nay our Saviour shews such a detestation of this affected superiority that he rebukes the Diciples for it and warnes them against it in severall other places of the Gospells and set a little child before them and tellls them , Mot. 18.4 . Mark 9.46 . that whoosever shall humble himself as that little child , the sames is greatest in the Kingdome of heaven &c. How well your Pope is an immitator of Jesus Christ , and follower of his commands I will leave your self to judge , who takes upon him not onely a power over all Bishops , but Princes .

That it is not in the power of the Pope , neither by himself , nor with all his Cardinalls , and councells , to determine any matter of faith , I prove thus by Scripture .

1 We finde in Isay , that we are commanded to the law , and to the Testimony , Isay 8.20 if they speak not according to this word , it is because there is no light in them as the Jews were commanded to their law and to their Testemony , Luke 16.29 . so are we Christians to our Scripture for our judge of all things in difference , so our Savior brings Abraham in the Gospell , saying , that they have Moses , & the Prophets , let them hear them , woe are not therefore to have recourse for any matter of faith to Pope , or any power else whatsoever .

2 Again our Saviour commands us thus , Starch the Scriptures , for in them ye thinke ye have eternall life , and they are they which testify of me . John 5.39 . Christ therefore remits us to Scripture onely for a judge of controversie .

3 Again we finde in the Acts of the Apostles how those of Berea were commended & acknowledgeed to be more noble than those of Thessalonie , Acts 17.11 . in that they received the word with all redyness of minde , and Searthed the Scriptures daily , whether those things were so . Heer we finde , I say , that those of Berea did not overhastyly beleive what the Apostles themselves delivered to them , but did examine all things by the Rule of Scripture is it not therefore fit , that we should follow their example , and acknowledge nothing but Scripture for our Rule and judge ?

4 It is manifest by reason , that the judge of all controversie in matter of faith ought to be infallible , for if the judge should erre , all that follow his judgement must erre likewise , now it is plain on tone side , that Scripture is infallible , being the word of God which cannot erre , and on the other side that all men are lyars , and subject to errours , as we finde in the Romans , Rom. 3.4 Psal. 111 God is true , but every man is a lyar . Now the pope is but a man ; all the Cardinalls are but men , nay councells themselves are but collections of men , no man therefore that builds himself upon their judgement in point of faith can have any security at all , but onely by depending upon the infallible and true P●●le of Scripture .

5 Counsels we know have , erred in matters of faith , and made decrees one against another , at least altered one anothers constitutions , and if that any such things as councells , are to be , why should not lay men be made a part of them , since they are a part of the Church , as well as any preists , or Bishops and their salvation as much concerned in those decrees , as any Clergy men whatsoever , it should be therefore as necessary for them to be present there .

That the Scripture it self , is , and ought to be the entire Rule of faith , and that neither your whole Church , nor all the Traditions of it , have any power to prescribe to to us in matter of Faith , I prove thus .

The authority of Scripture is greater then the Authority of the Church , for the Church ought to be govern'd by Scripture ; the Word of God we know is to yield to no man , nor is it lawfull for any man , or power of men whatsoever to oppose or diminish it .

2. We find expresly in Deuteronomy , Ye shall not adde unto the Word which I command you neither shall you diminish out from it , Deut. 4.8 . that ye keep thn Comandements of the Lord your God which I command you , all your tradition therefore are to cast away , for they adde to the written Word of God .

3. Again , We read in another place of the same Book thus , Deut. 1● . 32 . Whatsoever thing I command you , observe to do it , thou shalt not adde thereto , nor diminish from it . That therefore is to be done onely , which God commands , what men require or adde of their own , is unlawfull and not to be obey'd .

4. St. Paul declares his mind in this particular , very freely to the Galatians thus , but though we or an Angell from Heaven , preach any other Gospell unto you , then that which we have preached unto you , let him be accursed , and presently repents As we said before , so say I now again , If any man preach any other Gospel unto you , Gallat. 1. tha● that ye have received , let him be accursed . I say therefore that we are to admit of no Traditions , nor any thing else besides the Gospell .

Again , We have most solemnly said in the Revelation of St. John , Revel. 22.18.19 . That if any man shal take away from the Words of the Book of that Prophesie , God shal take away his part out of the Book of Life . And so if any man shall add unto these things , God shall adde unto him the plague ; that are written in that Book : Therefore it is not lawfull to adde your Traditions .

6. 2 Tim. 3.16 , 17. St. Paul assures Timothy , that all Scripture is given by inspiration of God , and is profitable for Doctrine , for Reproof , for Correction , for Instruction in Righteousnesse , that the man of God may be perfect , throughly furnished unto all good works . Therefore we have no need of Traditions .

Our Saviour tells such Observers of Traditions as you are , Mat. 15.6 . Thus have you made the Commandements of God of none effect , by your traditions ; and the Apostle gives the like caution to the Colossians , Col. 2.8 . beware least any man spoil you through Phlosophy and vain deceit , 1 Pet. 1.18 . after the tradition of men , after the rudiaments of the World , and not after Christ . And St. Peter puts the whole World in mind , how they were redeem'd from their vain conversation , receiv'd by Tradition from their Fathers . Thus you see how much Jusus Christ and his Apostles were carefull to forewarn and forbid us , and yet you will restore to us the vanity of those very Traditions .

8. Again , Rom. 1.17 . how can that be said to be determined by the whole Church , which the Pope , with his Cardinals , Gal. 7.11 . and it may be his Bishops assembled in Councell does determine , Heb. 10.38 when the Church is a Congregation of all the faithfull and a connexon of them in the true saith by which the just man lives , as the Apostle tells us . It is not therefore what all the Popes . Cardinalls , Bishops , or Councills tell us , though backt with all the strength of your Traditions , which is to be believed , for they can be at most but a part of the Church , not the whole Church .

9. Then Lastly , when you speak of the whole Church , you speak of what you no ways understand , for it is a spirituall thing and hidden from the eyes of men , it cannot be visible , for if it were then it could not be an Article of faith , as wee know it is , so I would fain know , what obligation can possibly come from such an unknown thing , Apostles Creed . and that is impossible for the eyes of men to discover , or no find it out where it is .

That not onely your Church , which I take to be but a part , but the whole Church of Christ , may and must erre sometimes in faith , I prove thus .

The Jewish Synagouge , where was the true Church of God , and which was the true Type of the Church of Christ made often saylings in ●●●ch as first in the time of Moses , when Aaren with all the people worshipt a Calf . Exod. 32.4 Again in the time of Elias , when there remain'd none faithfull but himself , as he himself complains , I have been very jealous for the Lord God of Hosts , because the Children of Israell have forsaken thy Covenant , thrown down thy Altars , 1 Kings 19 14. slain the Prophets with the sword , and I , even I only am left , and they seek my life to take it away . Then in the time of the Prophets Isaiah and Jeremy , Isai. 1.7 . when we see there was an universall revolt of the people from the Lord . And Isay complains how the Ox knew his owner , and the Ass his Masters Crib , But Israel ha's not known me , &c. And the Prophet Jeremy complains thus , for my people have committed two evills , Jer. 3.13 . they have forsaken me the fountains of living waters , and heat'd them out Cisterns broken Cisterns that can hold no water , &c. And yet more plainly we may see in the Chronicles , 2 Chro. 15.3 . how Azariah the Prophet says , that for a long season Israell was without a true God , and without a teaching Priest , and without Law . And then last of all the Synagogue was seen to fail , when it felf and all it's devises , were abolisht by Jesus Christ . And I hence conclude that if the Jewish Church did so grosly fail , then the Christian Church may , for the reason is the same of one and th' other .

Again , that the Church shall fail in the time of Antichrist is rertain , 2 Thes. 2. for so the Apostle foretells thus , Let no man deceive you by any means , for that day shall not come except there come a falling away first , and that man of sins be revealed , the Son of Pertution , &c. that is agreed on all sides to be Antichrist , Dan. 9.27 . but now Antichrist is revealed long time to the Bishop of Rome , therefore your which you pretend to be universall , ha's fail'd in faith long since .

We find it says again in Daniell , that he shall cause the sacrifice , and the Oblation to sence , and for the overspreading of abominations , he shall make it desolate , &c. Here is a plain Prophets of the fayling of the Church .

4. The Church is frequently compar'd to the Moon in the Scripture , Cant. 10. Revel. 12.1 . now the Moon we know is often fayling , therefore the Church is not amiss compar'd to it and it's failings we have manifestly seen by the oppositions , that some one or two honest and godly men have ever made to it , as of Late , John Wickliffe , John Huss , Luther Calvin , and others , to this very day .

3. Lastly that your Church may and must erre , I shall adde but this one Argument to prove out of Scripture that your Pope is Antichrist therefore your whole Church must be Antichristian : and by consequence the most failing Church in the World .

The first not of Antichrist is that he must fall away from the faith , 2 Thes. 3. and that hee ha's done wee in defending of Purgatory , invocation of Sauls sacrifice of the Mass , &c. vers. 3. The second Note is that he shal sit in the Temple of God , so the Pope sits in Rome as the Head Church of Christ . vers. 4. The third mark is that he shall shew himself as God , and this the Pope plainly does , when he makes himself the visible head of Christs Church . The fourth mark is to exalt and oppose himself to , and above all that is called God . This the Pope does whilst he exalts himself above all Ecclesiasticall and civill power . All these marks we have of him in that Chapter of the Epistle of Paul to the Thessalonians . 1 John 2.23 . Then a fifth mark we have of him out of St. Iohn , that he must deny Jesus Christ . This we know by the corruption of the Doctrine that concerns the mediation of Christ , and introducing of new Mediators . The sixth mark we have again that he is a Lyar and a worker of false miracles , and that we see your Pope to do still at Lorettoy and other places . The seventh and last is plainly set down by the same St. John in his Revellation , that he causeth all both small and great , Rich and poor , free and bound to receive a mark in their Right-hands or in their Fore heads ; and the Pope plainly does when he imposeth his Character upon some , and marks upon all , when by the unction of his Chrisme , hee signs the Fore heads of Christians when they take your Sacrament of Confirmation , Revel. 13.16 . &c. If this be not enough to prove your Pope to be the great Beast that leads you all into perdition , I must profess I know not what is ; so I shal forbear to offer any further Arguments .

My Lady had no sooner read this Paper , but she fell to work upon it as formerly , and she was the rather encouraged , being promis'd to be the last of her troubles upon this occasion . So she proceeds .

To what you alledge against our Pope or Bishop of Rome , that he neither is , nor can be head of the Church of Christ , or St. Peters Successor , or have any power over other Bishops . I answer thus .
To the first .

I answer , that the Apostle there in that Chapter to the Romans speaks of Christ only , as he is head of the Church , by the internal influencies of his gifts of grace ; and so it is true , that all the faithfull are fellow members , as well Saint Peter himself , and the Pope too , as any other Christians ; nor in this sense can the Pope be thought to be head at all , for all are to receive grace from Christ the head , not from Saint Peter or the Pope . But if you speak of Christ , as he is head of the Churrh , by his eternal Government of it , then not only he himself , but Peter also is the head ; for though to him Primarily and in his proper power , the Government belongeth , so secondarily it belongs to the other , and by a power derived from him . And whereas I know here you will be ready to reply , that the Church has two heads , which is monstrous , I answer , that a Kingdom is not to be said to have two heads , when the King is absent , and a Vice-king present with it ; for one is subordinate to another : so the Church may have two heads , one primary , and the other secondary as aforesaid . I le give you another example out of the Apostle , who tels us , that the man is the head of the woman , yet the woman has another head , that is her natural one , befides her husband ; shall we therefore say , that every married woman is a Monster with two heads .

To the second .

I answer as before , that a head is taken two ways in relation to the Members , first according to the internal influence which proceeds from the head , into the other members , and so there can be but one head of one body . Secondly , as to the external Government , so there may be two heads of one body ; so the body of a woman as aforesaid , has but one head , from which it receives the influence of sensitive spirits , but has two as to the Government of her external actions : for in the one she is govern'd by her own natural head , and in the other by her husband , who is her moral head . It is just so in the Church , which has but one head as to the influx of grac , but two as to its Government , whereof one supplies the place of the other the first was only Christ is head , and all others are members ; the last way not only Christ , but Peter is head , who the former way is so far from being a head , that he is but a common member . When therefore the Apostle tels the Corinthiaus that Christ and his Church make but up one entire mystical body , which consist of head , and members , this must be understood in the former sence ; for the Apostle speaks plainly there of Christ , as he is head of the Church by the internal division of his gifts , of grace , as is plain by the context , and so in that case it cannot be denied , but all besides Christ are Members of the Church , and none besides him can be head of it . But if you speak as to the external Gouernment , then Christs Vicar may be head , and all others Members , as in Kingdoms Govern'd by a Deputy or Vice-king , as aforesaid .

To the third .

I freely grant what you urge out of the Gospels , that Jesus Christ did commend the care of his Church to all his Apostles , but I deny that he commanded it equally to all ; for only to Pater he said , Feed my sheep , therefore the Supream Pastorship was only committed to Peter , and to none of the rest . Nor do I understand any force in that argument of yours , which follows thus : All of them were equally taught and instructed by Christ , and all of them received the holy Ghost equally ; therefore one had no more jurisdiction then another . For it is one thing to speak of the Learning and Sanctity of the Apostles , and another to speak of their power or jurisdiction . It is not necessary that all which have equality of one , should have equility of the other . Otherwise a King in his Kingdom , if he had not more learning and holiness than his Subjects , should not have a greater power and authority , which you know , how absurd it is to say : and the reason is plain , for power and jurisdiction do not necessarily , and of themselves depend upon Learning and Sanctity ; and suppose we grant that all the Apostles were equal , before Christ said to Peter , Feed my sheep , it does not follow that they were all equal afterwards but that Peter had ever after that his just preheminence .

To the fourth .

I grant that Paul did resist Peter , and justly , for Peter was in an errour , and yet not in any Article of faith neither , for in that he could not err ; for Christ assured him that he had askt his Father , that his Faith should not fail ; but his errour was in matter of Fact only , because he did unadvisedly dissemble Judaism to the scandall and offence of the Gentiles ; but from hence it follows not that Peter was not the head of the Church , no more then this is a consequence , David was rebuked by Joah ; therefore David was not the Head of his Kingdom . Nay all good men will collect rather this from the reprehension that Paul gave to Peter , that Superiours when they are in fault , may be reproved by Inferiours , when they shall do it with due humility and charity . Now can this be called perversness or arrogance in St. Paul , because he pid it with a good zeal , to take away a scandal that was like to rise , by the unwary dissimulation of St. Peter . Beside this was no more then what belonged to the Apostleship of St. Paul , to look to the edification of Faith ; and as to the duty of Apostleship , and the honour of it , they were all equal , though not in point of power and Government ; for therein Peter had the Primacy .

To the fifth .

Your Inference does not hold that Peter having offended in his person , therefore the gares of Hell prevailed against his power ; so the succession of the just jurisdiction will hold as due to the successors of St. Peter , though their persons be never so sinfull . For Christ gave the power of the Keys to his Church in the person of St. Peter ; so St. Peter had the power of the keys , as he bore the person of the Church onely . Besides all this , it is plain , that when Peter deny'd Christ , the Church was not then founded upon him , but to be founded ; for Christ said , upon this Rock I will build my Church , that was to be understood , after his Resurrection .

To the Sixth .

It is most true that Christ himself is the principal Rock and primary foundation of his Church yet he may have Vicars and Substitutes for secundary Rocks , for though saint Pauls saying be true , that Christ is the only Foundation , the saying of saint John must be as true , that the Wall of that City had twelve Foundations , and in them thennees of the twelve Apostles .

To the Seventh .

It would be too long abusinesse , and out of the Road that we have proposed to our selves , to prove out of antiquity , that St. Peter was at Rome which no question is more sure then that you and I were once in London , and never was denyed till some upstart Doctors of yours were pleased to make a Question of it . I am inform'd that all the Antient Doctors of the Church , do understand the Epistle of St. Paul to the Romans , as sent on purpose to confirm them in that Faith which they had received by the Preaching of St. Peter there , and was so famous as to be spoken of throughout the whole World , for so he himself implies , when he said he writ to them some spirituall gift , to the end , that that they might be established , &c. Paul would confirm what Peter had preached that by the Testimony of two Apostles their faith might be strengthned . And as for his so late comming to Rome , it is as great an errour . It is true he was five years in Pontus and Asia , and seven years in Antioch , before he went to Rome ; but then he did go , and in Eighteen years after Christs Passion , he return'd again to Jerusalem to preside in a Councell there , which is the groand of your errour , in saying , that he was eighteen years in and about Jerusalem , before he went to Rome . But howsoever all that would make little to the matter ; for wheresoever he was he was still a supream Bishop , and though by the Revellations of the spirit , he chose out Rome for his Seat , yet he was chief Bishop of the World , long before he was Bishop of Rome .

To the Third .

I answer thus , that it was no wonder , that our Saviour rebuk'd Peter , for resisting the sence that he propos'd to him , concerning his being put to death , because he had not yet receiv'd the Keys , he was not yet confirm'd , nor was yet the fulnesse of the spirit yet come upon him . Therefore he was not yet the Rock , but Christ after his Resurrection , fullfill'd that promise to him and founded his Church upon him . Then very learn'd men are of opinion are of opinion that Jesus Christ said to those words to Peter , but to the Divell himself , who was the Suggestor of that mistake to him . Again , the fall of a person , in point of opinion , does not necessity take away his power . Then again Peter not being yet fully confirm'd , it is possible that he might have a Revellation from God the Father , by which he might profess Christ to be the Son of the living God , and yet that great mystery might be conceal'd from him , as yet that Christ would be crucifi'd for the salvation of mankind , and rise again the third day : and because you are pleas'd to put the Divell upon us for our Head , I would ask you , what was the Rock our Saviour meant ? if faith , as you pretend , then I say Faith is so soon lost in a man as grace , and the faith of one man must be as considerable to that foundation , as the faith of any other man ; and so upon the faith of all the faithfull , the Church is to bee built , and if all the faithfull are to be the foundation ; what kind of Church , will you leave to Christianity ?

To the Ninth .

I answer , that your argument is not good at all , Peter was sent by the Apostles into Samaria , therefore he was less then the other Apostles : Joh. 6.20 . Gallat. 4. just so the Arrians , as I have heard , formed their Argument , because the Father sent the Son , as is plain in Scripture , therefore he is greater then the Son , for the Sender , say they and you , is greater than he that is sent . Because Herod did did not send the three Wise men to worship the Child , He was therefore not greater then they . When it is frequent that the most principall persons are likely sent , especially if it be from the body of an Assembly , and that for their honour , out of love and good councell , not out of any Right of Authority in their Inferiours . So we find in Josuah , Jos. 22.12.13.14 . that when the Children of Israell heard what the two Tribes and the half had done , the Children of Israel gathered themselves together , &c. and sent unto the children of Reuben , and to the children of Gad , 91. and to the half Tribe of Manasseth , into the Land of Gillead Phineas the Sonne of Eleazer the Priest , and with him ten Princes , 1 Chron. 9.20 . of each chief house a Prince , &c. Here you see how the children of Israel , the inferiour sort of the people , sent Phineas that was their Captain and Ruler over them , as we finde in the Chronicles , and divers other of their Princes , it is plain therefore by your consequencies out of Scripture , that your Argument has none . He is sent , therefore he is inferiour to him , or them , that send him .

To the tenth .

It is plain that Christ did only prohibit ambition and Tyrannie amongst his Apostles , not power and order , because they are of God , as the Apostle Paul tels us , Rom. 15. and he that resisteth the power , resisteth the Ordinance of God . Our Saviour therefore intended only to teach humility to him that was the chiefest , or presided over the rest , not to take away his power . You would take it I presume , for a very ill Argument , if any one should say , Jesus Christ himself was a Minister , or did serve upon earth , and taught others to serve or minister likewise ; therefore Christ had no power when he was here . Besides when Christ said , He that is greatest amongst you ; Is it not plain , that he does imply , that there should be one greater in power than another , though he does injoyn that greater , to be as the lesser , by way of humility , and ministration , or service ?

To the eleventh and last .

I answer in like manner , that all which can be collected out of those Scriptures , is to shew , that he could have all those that were his , to rise to greatness , not by power , and ambition , but by humility , and innocency ; that when they were in power , they should be as if they were not so , and as little ones in humility and innocency ; that when they were in power , they should be as if they were not so , and as little ones in humility and innocency , not as so in age , and understanding .

Now you must give me leave , according to my usual method to reply something upon you , out of the clear and unforced Letter of Scripture ; and that the Pope , or Bishop if Rome , is and ought to be the he●● of the Church of Christ , as St. Peters Successor , and has just power and superiority ever all other Bishops , I prove thus .

First out of the Letter of St. Matthews Gospel , after Peter had made his consession , Jesus answered and said unto him , Blessed art thou Simon Barjona , Matth. 16.16 , 17 , 18.19 . for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee ; but my Father which is in heaven , and I say , also unto thee , that thou art Peter , and upon this Rock I wil build my Church , and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it . And I will give unto thee the keys of the ●●osed in Heaven , &c. It is worth your observation how signally our Saviour insists upon St. Peters person ; for that he might be sure that none but those that were wilfully disposed , should be able to mistake , he calls him by his old name Simon , then by his Fathers name Barjona , then by his new name Peter , which he gave him then , and signifies a Rock , and presently says , that upon that Rock will he build his Church , &c. And that must plainly be said and meant of himself in his own person , for presently after follows , And I will give unto thee the Keys of Heaven , &c. And whatsoever thou shalt bind , &c. And whatsoever thou shalt loose , &c.

Again we find how clearly the Primacy of St. Peter may be proved out of St. Lukes Gospell ; When our Saviour twice repeats his name . Luk. 22.31 , 32. And the Lord said , Simon , Simon , behold Satan hath desired to have you , that he may sift you as Wheat , but I have prayed for thee , that thy faith fail not ; and when thou art converted strengthen thy brethren . Observe I pray you how our Saviour prays for him most particularly and above the rest , and he askt two things for him , First , an indefectibility of his faith , and then a power to confirm the rest of the Apostles and all the faithfall .

Again , we find in St. Matthews Gospell , how Christ before all his Apostles saith to Peter , Go thou to the red Sea , Math. 17.27 . and cast an book and take up the Fish that first cometh up , and when thou hast opened his mouth , thou shalt find a piece of money that take , and give unto them for me and thee . here it is plain that though the rest of his Disciples were present , he paid only for him , and made him equall to himself in the payment .

We find in all the Gospells , where there is any description of the constitution of the Apostles or any mention made of them ; Math. 10. Peter is still nominated first , Mark . 3. as the head of all the rest , which would not have been done but in regard of his Primacy , Luke 6 and so it has been ever understood by the Church . Then we find that though all the Apostles were present at our Saviours apparition by the Sea Coast , Joh. 21.7 . onely Peter did come upon the water of the Sea to him , Luke 5.4 . which was no doubt a sign of his singular power and prerogative above the rest . In like manner though all the Disciples were commanded to loose their Nets , onely Peter was commanded to Launch into the deep .

But above all , we find the performance of that long promis'd Primacy , made to St. Peter most expresly in St. Johns Gospell . Jesus saith to Simon Peter , John 21 Simon son of Jonas lovest thou me more then these , he saith unto him yea Lord thou knowest that I love thee , he saith unto him feed my Lambs He saith unto him again the second Simon , Simon , sonne of Jonas lovest thou mee ? He saith unto him , 15 , 16 , 17. yea Lord thou knowest that I love th●e , He saith unto him feed my sheep . He saith unto him again the third time , Simon , Simon , Sonne of Jonas lovest thou me ? and he said unto him , Lord thou knowest all things , thou knowest that I love thee , Jesus saith unto him , feed my sheep . Here it was that Peter receiv'd his pastorall charge , which was but promised him before : and in the presence of all the Apostles the care of Christs sheep was committed to him as to the Prince of the Apostles . Now to Feed , Ezek. 34. Isai. 44.56 . Jerem 26.22 . Psalm 32. in Scripture is very frequently taken in Scripture , for to govern , & Rule , & Pastors likewise for Kings , as may be seen throughout the Prophets . But that I may contract my self in this Copious Theam : I shall endeavour to summe up all the Prerogatives of St. Peter , that are given him in Scripture , and then leav your self to judge whether he was not intended by our Saviour to be Primate and Superiour .

First , it is manifest that he alone of all the Apostles had the honour to have his Proper-name changed , and a new one given him by Christ . Secondly in the Repetition of all their Names , Peter is always put first . Thirdly , the Scripture always speaks of Peter as a Prince , and of the others as Subjects . Fourthly , Peter speaks in the Name of all the rest , as the chief amongst them . Fifthly , onely to Peter was the first Revellation made of the Divinity of Christ . Sixthly , onely to Peter was made a promise of the infallability of his faith , and stability of his chair . Seventhly , Christ paid Tribute only for himself and Peter , and for none of the rest , and as much for Peter as himself . Eightly , Jesus Christ after his Resurrection , made his first Apparition to Peter alone of all the Apostles ; and all this you cannot deny to be perfect Gospell Now you may please to take notice of these Eight Priviledges or Prerogatives spoken of in the Gospell , were before he was actually instated in his Primacy , for that was not till after our Saviours Resurrection , so these that I have already mentioned , were but as signes or previous dispositions to his future Primacy and power , which how he afterwards executed , you shall see in these particular prerogatives more . First to Peter alone it was absolutely said , Feed my sheep , there was his power confer'd and confirm'd upon him . Secondly Peter by his own Authority call'd all the rest of the Apostles to the election of a new Apostle in the place of the Traytor Judas , and directed the Ordination of Matthias into that Apostleship ; Act. 1.15 , 16. as we find in the Acts. And Peter stood up in the midst of the Disciples , and said men and buethren , &c. Thirdly , Peter only in the day of Penticost , defended all the rest of the Apostles when they were said to be full of Wine : for the Text tells us , that Peter standing up with the Eleven did lift up his voyce and said unto them , &c.

( Which was the first miracle wrought in Christs Name & conformable to the gospel )

4ly . Peter , when Jobn was present , cur'd he lame man ; so the Gospell justifi'd and defended that action and Christianity together , against the Jews in a set Sermon . Act. 3.4 . 13 , &c. Act. 4.8 . 5ly . St. Peter argues the case in the Counsell and defends himself and John . Sixthly Peter does the first act of justice and first first instance of a coercive power in the Church , Act. 5.3.4 , 5. Act. 8 , 20. Acts 2. when he pronouncedsentence of death upon Ananias and Saphira . Seventhly , Peter was the only person that proceeded to justice against Simon Magus for his wicked marketting of the Holy-Ghost . 8ly , he was the first that did publickly did preach the Gospel to the Jews , after thedescent of the Holy ghost . 9ly , He was the first that did likewise preach the Gospel to the Gentiles , & to whom only the heavenly Visions offered for the calling of the Gentiles , Act. 10.12 , 13. and by which he was commanded to take a particular care of them as his own cure , and as their proper Prelate : When he saw the great Sheet let down to the Earth , wherein were allmanner of fore-footed beasts , and creeping things of the Earth , &c. And there came down a Voyce from Heaven to him , Acts 15.7 . Rise Peter , kill and eat , by which he as head was commanded to incorporate the Gentils into the Church of Christ &c. Tenthly and lastly he was the first that gave his Vote , and spoke in that great Councell at Jerusalem , and was chief Authour of that decree , against the Legal Rites and Ceremonies . Here are plainly Ten parts or pieces of his pastorall prerogative that he exercised after the Resurrection of our Saviour , when he was establisht in his pastorall charge by those Words , Feed my Sheep . And if all the ma●ks and promises of this prerogative given in the Gospell , nor all these confirmations and matters of fact since , will not prevail to satisfie you in St. Peters Primacy , I shal despair ever to bee able to satisfie you in any thing .

And yet truly if that Scripture had not been so punctually plain in this particular , as we see it is for St. Peter and his Successors , the very Analogy of reason would induce , that Jesus Christ should appoint somebody for that great charge to govern his whole Church . First let us look upon the Anology of the Christian Church , and that of the Jews . The Mosaicall synagogue was but a Type or shadow of the Church of Christ but the Synagogue was always govern'd by one visible head , Namely the High Priest , to whom all others were subject , as is apparent out of the Books of Exod. Levit. Deut.

Therefore the Church of Christ ought to be so governed . For it is not fit that the more perfect government , which by all is acknowledg'd to be Monarchy , should be over the shadow ( that we know is more imperfect then the substance ) and and not over the substance it self which is the Church of Christ . And as the Jewish Synagogue was the Type of our Church , so undoubtedly their High Priests were the Types of our Popes : and as they presided over the whole Jewish Nation as to the externall government , so our Popes in like manner , do over all Christian people .

Now I ask you how it can st●● with reason That Moyses , Peut . 17.8 , 9. who was a Type of Christ too should provide for the Synagogue , that if there should arise a matter of difficulty , that they should come unto the Priests and Levites , and to the Judge that shall be in those dayes , and enquire and they shall shew thee the sentence of Judgement , which are his own words , and that Jesus Christ should neglect to provide in the same manner , for his own beloved Spouse , his Church ? Since then Monarchical Government , both in Church and state , is the best of Governments and was the practis'd government of the Synaogue , and amongst the jews and is the only government in the triumphant Church in heaven , why should not the same provision , be made by Iesus Christ for his poor Militant Church upon Earth ? Or why should you or any body else oppose that happiness of ours , which Christ has appointed for us ? unless it be out of a design to bring your selves and the whole Church to confusion , and to do as was done in those days , when there was no King in Israel , when every one did what seem'd good in his own eyes , which unhappy licence , that you call liberty shall be ever part of my Litany , Judg. 17.6 Judg. 21.25 . that God would please to deliver me and all his faithfull servants from .

To what you alledge against the power of the Pope , that he can neither by himself nor with all his Cardinalls , and councills about him , he able to determine any matter of Fath. I answer thus .
To the First .

I say that you are clearly in a great errour to think thi● the Law and the Testimony , or any written thing , was or could be judge of any controversie or difficulty whatsoever , but the High Priest , as appears by the Text aforecited out of Deuteronomy . Then those words , to the Law and to the Testimony , are to be understood far otherwise , than you imagine , as is plain by the precedent words . which are these , and when they shall say unto you , seek unto them that have familiar spirits , and to wizards that peep , and that mutter : should not a people seek unto their God ? for the living to the dead ? then immediatly follows to the Law , and to the Testimony ; if they speak not according to this word , it is because there is no light in them , &c. Now it is plain that the Prophet speaks here only against those , who were wont to consult witches , wizards , and Sorcerers about future events ; and therefore they were remitted partly to the Law , Deut. 18.9 . 1 Kings 22 7. which did expresly prohibit all that , and partly to the Testimony of the Prophets , who were appointed by God to foretell futurities to them . The sense therefore of those words , to the Law and to the Testimony , 1 Sam. 28.7 . is this : if you will be inform'd of future events , you ought not to consult witches , wizards , or sorcerers , as Saul did , because God had forbidden that by his Law , to which I therefore remitted you , but consult ye the Prophets of God , whose office it is , to foretell all future things that ye ought to know . What does this make to the derision of difficult controversies , or determination of matters of Faith ? Nothing at all sure , unless you can think this Argument to be good . It is not Lawful to consult Witches , Wizards and Sorecters , therefore onely Scripture is to be the Judge of controversies . This sure is a very pitifull Argument , and yet such as that , do your great Rabbins , and principall Doctors make use of , to abuse you and themselves .

To the second .

I grant , that Jesus Christ disputing with the Jews , who denyd him to be the Son of God does remit them to the Scriptures , but not to them only neither , for he proves himself to be so by other Testimonies . First , he appeals to the Testimony of John the Baptist , saying , you sent to John and he gave witnesse to the truth , Joh. 1.34 . now his Testimony was this , Behold the Lamb of God which taketh away the sins of the World ; and again , I have given witnesse to the truth , Joh. 5.36 . because this is the Son of God . Secondly , he refers them to the Testimony of the miracles that he wrought amongst them But I saith he , have greater witnesse then that of John , for the Works which the Father hath given me to finish , the same works that I do , Mat. 3.27 . Luk. 9.35 . Joh. 5.39.40 . bear witness of me , that the Father hath sent me . Thirdly , he refers them to the Testimony of God the Father , saying , And the Father that sent me he hath given Testimony of me , that was when he said from Heaven , This is my beloved Son , in whom I am well pleased , hear him : Fourthly and Lastly hee refers them , as you urge , to the Testimony of the Scriptures , saying , Search the Scriptures , for in them ye think ye have eternall life . So much as to say , if you will not accept of the three first Testimonies of me ( which sure are most efficatious ones ( otherwise I had never produced them ) yet at least ye cannot reject the Testimony of the Scriptures , in which you glory so much , they themselves , if you search and examine them , as you should , do give Testimony of me , that Jame the Messias , promis'd by God , Why therefore , will ye not believe , &c. Thus in my Opinion your Argument retorts it self upon you more then oppugneth us . For you contend that only Scripture is necessary for the decision of controversies , and difficulties in faith , and yet you see , that Christ himself does not so , but remits us to those other Testimonies , as well as Scripture , now the Catholick Church does in this , as in all things else , imitate our blessed Lord and Saviour , for in those controversies which she hath with all Adversaries she does not use the testimony of Scriptures only but likewise the testimony of the most antient and holy Fathers , the invincible evidence of the true Mother-Church , and the testimony of divine miracles , which are frequently one for the confirmation of our faith . But you forsooth as if you were wiser than Christ himself , will neither admit or hear of any thing but out of Scripture alone , in which you shew your selves like those Jews against whom our Saviour so disputes ; for the Jews casting off all other testimony , would admit onely of Scripture , 2 Cor. 3.14.15 . ● and yet they neither understood it then nor yet do or ever will , as the Apostle tels us when he says , but their minds were blinded , for untill this day remaineth the same Vail untaken away , in the reading of the Old Testament , &c. and again when Moses is read , the Vail is upon their hearts , &c.

To the third .

For what you urge so hard out of the Acts , you shall find to be to as little purpose as the other , if if you but please to examine the Context , which tells you , That there being a Synagogue of Jews at Thessalonica , St. Paul as his manner was , went in unto them , and three Sabbath days reasoned with them out of the Scriptures , opening and alledging that Christ must needs have suffered and risen again from the dead , Act. 17.2 , 3. and that Jesus whom he preacht unto them was Christ , &c. But the Word so preacht did but little profit those of Thessalonica , then follows that they of Berea were more Neble then those of Thessalonica , in that they received the Word with all readinesse of mind and searched the Scriptures daily whether those things were so ? &c. Now I would fain know what you wil conclude out of this , as to your purpose , unless thus . Those of Berea searched the Testimonies of Scripture concerning Christ , that were quoted by St. Paul , therefore Scripture alone must determine faith , and be the only Rule and Judge between us . That is just as if you would say , that one of your Doctors , searcheth all the testimonies of St. Austin , that are quoted by Bellarmin , therefore St. Austin is the only Judge of Controversies . Or thus , one of your Congregation searcheth all the testimonies which are produced against a great Doctor of yours , as they are quoted by a greater of your own , therefore that great Doctor is the only judge of Controversies . Or thus , one of your Doctors , searcheth all the Traditions that are alledged in the Councill of Yrent thefefore only Tradition is to be receiv'd for a Judge of Controversies . I pray you forbear these pitiful consequences , and yet your great Doctors seldommake be tter & are not asham'd of them , so I may well excuse you andothers seduced by them .

To the Fourth .

I say that your Argument , if it had any weight at all , would serve altogether as well agianst your self as us , for if as you understand it every man be a Lyar add may erre , it will follow necessarily , that Moses with the Prophets , Apostles and Evangelists , nay that your Friends , Luther and Calvin , nay all your Preachers to be Lyars and may erre , because they are men , therefore there is no credit to be given to any of them , no confidence to be put in them , but all things that are said by them must be taken for suspected and uncertain : where then is faith ? Nor matters it though they say , that the Word which they tell us , is not their own but Gods Word , for if they be Lyars , they may as well lye in the delivery of Gods message , as in any thing else of their own , nothing therefore can be certain . But God forbid that any Christian should think so , for it is far otherwise .

First , we confesse the Scripture to be certain and infallible , because it is the Word of God , but we adde that it is so obscure , that the true sence and meaning cannot easily appear to every man : Therefore of necessity there must be some other Judge that must infallibly determine what is the clear and genuine sence of the Scripture it self . Now this infallible Judge cannot possibly be every private man , for then there would be so many Judges as there be men , and diversities of Opinions : and so there would be an utter impossibility to agree to any thing , or compose any difference in Religion , every one being apt to favour his own opinion . It is necessary therefore that there should be a publick Judge agreed upon who should have a power of decreeing , defining , and determining all things between differet parties . Gen. 8.21 . Psal. 38.6 . Then again we says that we must consider men in two respects , Num. 11.17 . Deut. 17.9 Aug. 2.12 . Malac. 2.3 Jerem. 1.7 . first as men and the sons of Adam , so obnoxions to many naturall corruptious , so without doubt they are all prone to lying , and falshood . In the next place we must consider them as they are directed and gove●n'd by the Holy Ghost for the instruction of others : so they are infallible and without possibility of lying , such as Moses in the Old Testament , with bis Congregation of Elders about him . So were divers other High Priests that succeeded him , such were the Prophets , Isaiah , Jeremiah , Ezechiel , Daniel and all the rest . Such in the New Testament , were the Apostles to whom it was said , I wil from the Father send you the spirit of truth and again when the of Spirit of truth shall come , he shall teach you all truth . Iohn 16.6.13 . now where there is all truth there can be no lye . Such ever was , now is , and still must be the Church of Christ , which having the perpetuall assistance and government of the same Holy Spirit , ha's as it were the heart of it , so long therefore as the faithfull Christian shall continue in the unity of the Church and keep close to the Doctrine of the supream Bishop and Councells , he shall participate of the assistance and government of the holy Ghost , nor can erre in faith : but if through any pride or perversity of spirit , he shall disagree and depart from that head and heart , then he shuts all those passages and Chanels , by which that divine assistency and direction is to be derived , and so must of necessity be seduced from truth , and led into a Labyrinth of errours , as we have sadly seen in all the antient and modern Hereticks . The next similitude may be drawn from a flock of sheep which indeed is the best representation of the Church , Ioh. 10.14 math. 28.20 . as our Saviour himself is pleas'd to attest in the Gospel : for as the whole flock being in one Fold or place collected together , has the perpetuall assistance and guard of the Shepherd , and so are defended from the malice & fierceness of wolves so the Universall Church of the faithfull , being collected in one faith and spirit . has the perpetuall care and assistance of that divine Shepherd , who said , I an the good Shepherd , and know my Sheep , and again , and I am always with you to the end of the World . And just as each single Sheep so long as it remains in the society and Communion with the Flock , and under the aare and custody of the Shepherd , is safe and secure from the mouths of wolves , so is each single Christian , so long as he remains joyned and tyed up in the unity of the Church , that is , submits to the sence and doctrine of the whole Church , is never err'd yet in matter of faith , nor ever can , now I presume you may require to know of me whether all and every one of this Church hath this great assistance and direction of the Holy Spirit ; that he cannot erre in matter of Faith ?

I do readily answer , that every one of the faithfull has it , but by way of dependance upon the Church , and from it . So long therefore as any man remains in conjunction with the Church he cannot erre ; if he separates or dissents from it , he must needs of necessity fall into an errour , which I 'le thus explain to you , by two Examples or similitudes .

The one may be taken from the proportion of a humane body , in which we see that all the members do jointly and severally paticipate of the vitall and sensitive spirits , by which life is preserved in them all , but yet they have these spirits derivatively from , and by way of dependency upon the head and heart : for it is from them as from a double Fountain , those spirits are derived into the other members : so that when the Channells and passages , by which that derivation and distribution is made , are stopt or intercepted , it must follow necessarily , that the other Members must be left destitute of spirits , and be rendred incapable of performing their Office , but being open all will be well . So likewise in the Church , all the faithfull , which are as it were Members of it , have a certain assistancy and direction from the holy Ghost , but by way of dependency upon the Pope , who is as the head of the Church and from Councils , which are safe and secure from all danger of errour and infidelity . In the last place , as sheep that go astray from the flock , are out of the protection of the Shepherd , and by consequence must fall into the danger of Wolves : so Christians which depart from the common sence and doctrine of the Church must of necessity fall into millions of errours , for want of the assistance of the holy spirit , which is the Judge and Guardian of that . I pray you good Mistriss N. have a care how you expose your self to this terrible danger .

To the Fifth .

I utterly deny that generall Councells have er'd in matters of faith , it is possible that some particular Councells might or some false Councells , more truely call'd conventicles . Then that some councills have determined variously , as to discipline and Ecclesiasticall government , I grant for variety of times requires diversity of Laws , and God himself gives the president of that , who changed many things in the new Testament , that were commanded in the Old . And as for Lay-men to be present in Councels , we do not at all deny , so they be as witnesses , defenders , Counsellors , Suggestors or Executioners of their decrees , but never as to have a Voyc in any Councill or Church businesse , and this is plain by those Gouncils , that we find in the Acts celebrated by the Apostles , and so clearly in every Age since , and why should Lay-men have to do more now ? Now give me leave to reply something to you , and I 'le be short in my proof , having been so long in my answers .

That the Pope with a generall Council , may detrmine what is of Fath and what is not , I pove by expresse Scripture thus .

We find in Scripture some Councils celebrated by the Apostles that have actually made such determinations . As first for the taking off the burthen of Circumcision and other Indaicall obligations , we find the result thus . For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost and to us , Act. 15.28 29. to lay upon you no greater burthen than these necessary things that they abstein from meats offered to Idols , and from blood , and from things strangled , and from Fornication ; from which if ye keep your selves ye shalde well . See here the form of an Apostolical Councell : First the Text tells us , that the Apostles and Elders came together , and that St. Peter was President and Prolocutor ; then they issued out their decrees , with this authoritative preface ; It seemed good to the Holy Ghost , and to us : Now do you find that any faithfull Christians then did question their authority , ver. 6.7 . as you do now that of other Conncells assembled in like manner , and assisted by the same spirit ? Thus you see that Councell did decree somethings to be necessary for a time , which were not simply and of themselves matters of faith , and to take off from the Jews many things that were to them before matters Faith : as circumcision and other mosaicall Statutes . Why should not I say the Church now have the same power when the same necessity shall require ? we have I 'm sure , the same Christ the fame holy spirit , the same faith , the same Church why not the fame power in Councills .

We read again of another Council celebrated by the Apostles when they wer to part one from another , Apostles Creed . and to go preach the Gospel , as the Lord had commanded them over the whole World : when they met together , and upon a large debate delivered to us the Creed , which you your selves and I 'm sure the whole Church of Christ submits to as as points of faith , and is to this day called the Apostles Creed ; and for some of those Articles , we have no Scripture at all nor any other authority but this , that they were so delivered by the Apostles : and I conceive it a duty incumbent upon all good Christians , what the wise Man adviseth , Prov. 22.28 . not to remove the antient Land-marks which our Fathers have set .

In what respect a Councill or Convocation of Elders was with God , and ever taken for the representative body of the Church , is plain in many places of Exodus , Exod: 19.3 7 , 8. especially , that where God commands Moses to say to the House of Jacob and tell the Children of Israell &c. And yet afterwards it is said of Moses , that he came and call'd for the Flders onely of the people , and laid before their faces all these Words which the Lord commanded him , &c. And though it is plain , that the Elders of the people onely answered , with whom Moses was talking , Deut. 32.7 . yet the Text tell us , That all the people answered together and said , &c. Which could dot be , ●nless onely so representatively by their convocation of Elders . How well therefore does the same Moses express this in his fong , when he saith , Remember the days of old confider the years of many generations . Ask thy Father and he will shew thee , thy Elders and they will tell thee , &c. I should be infinite to run through all the Old Scripture to shew what a stamp of Majesty and Authority God Almighty fixt upon such assemblies , and what respect the people always rendred them . So it shall suffice to give you our Saviours own words and so conclude this point .

We find in St. Matthew thus , Again , I say unto you , that if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask , it shall be done for them of my Father which is in Heaven , Matth. 18. v. 18 , 20. for where two or three are gathered together in my name , there am I in the midst of them . Now I would fain know , who can be convinced more evidently not to hear the Church , then he that will not hear a Councell there can be no where a greater and more conspicuous consent than in a Council , nor can there be any Congregations assembled more in the name of God then generall Councells are , and yet you are pleased to cast contempt upon them . But give me leave to tell you , let the Authority of Councells be once taken away and all things in the Church will bee ambiguous and uncertain . First all the antient Heresies that have been condemned by the authority of Councells , and cast out of the Church may be reviv'd and reinforced upon Christians with as much reason , as any primitive and Catholick Doctrine . Then set up the Authority of Scripture alone against that of the Church and Councills , and then Scripture it self will be uncertain , for thrusting out that authority wich ha's commended sacred Scripture to us , and commanded us to recive it , what Scripture is it that opinionated men wil not reject , and condemn for Apocrypha which will not save their own turns ? as some of your Doctros have notoriously done , and so in fine we can never agree upon the point what is Scripture and what is not . Thus must the Church of Christ fall into a most miserable condition , for upon the arising of any doubt in matter of faith , there can be no way found out to decide it , but every particular person according to the proportion of wit in his own pate , shall frame to himselfe faith of what form or fashion he pleaseth . How then hath Christ provided for his Church a sufficientrule to go by ? and why should his Evangelioall Law be called the most perfect , if he has not otherwise order'd a determination of all emergent coutroversies ? But thanks be to our most gracious God and Saviour , he has abundantly done it for us , as I shal more amply shew in my answers and replyes to the following heads of this your Paper , which God give you grace with prudence and impartiality to petuse .

To what you alledge for Scripture to be the only Rule of our faith , and against the Authority of the universall Church and it's Traditions , I answer thus .
To the first .

I say that you are very much mistaken in matter of Scripture , so I shall be bold to inlarge a little upon it , for your better understanding . And first it is to be observed that our Saviour himself writ no book at all , neither commanded his disciples or Apostles to write any , inso much as being to send them to plant his Church , Matth. 28. he said not to them go and write , but go and preach to the whole World . Therefore we find the Old Law written in Tables of Stone : but the Gospell had no other writing then , but in the hearts of Christians . So St. Paul plainly expresseth it , Ye are our Epistle &c. & again , 2 Cor. 3.2 , 3. Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declard to be the Epistle of Christ , ministred by us , not with ink , but with the spirit of the living God , not in Tables of stone , but in fleshly tables of the heart , &c. This was before prophesyed by the Prophet Jerem. Behold the days come , Jer. 31.31.302 3 , saith the Lord , that I will make a new Cavenant with the House Israell and with the House of Judah , not according to the Covenant that I made with their Fathers . But this shall be the Covenant that I will make with the House of Israel , after those days , saith the Lord , I wil put my Law in their inward parts , and write it in their hearts , and I wil be their God and they shall be my people , &c.

Again we find , that the Church is much ancienter then Scripture ; for when the Apostles began to preach , there was no Evangelical Scripture , no Epistle of St. Paul extant , and yet the Church was then purchased and sprinkled with the blood of Christ , Acts 1. and governed by his unerring Spirit . So the Apostles without any authority of the Scripture of the New-Testament , proceeded to the election of Matthias , and to the ordination or seven Deacons , Acts 5.6 . &c. So Peter proceeded to the sentence against Ananias and Saphira , which struck the breath out of their bodies , &c. Now we know that the Apostles were very diligent in preaching , and sowing the word of God ; and yet we finde but very little that they left us in writing ; so it must follow , that they taught a great deal more then they wrote , which must have equal authority with their writings . Yet further , it is plain that the Scripture it self cannot be authentical , without the authority of the Church ; for the Canonical Writers themselves , were but members of the Church ; and how shall any private man know what Scripture is Canonical and what not , but by the Church ? John 3. Why should any man believe the Gospel of St. Mark to be Canonical , who never saw Christ , and the Gospel of Nicodemus not to be so , who both saw and heard Christ , as St. John testifies of him ? and why should the Gospel of St. Luke the Disciple be receiv'd , and the Gospel of St. Bartholomew the Apostle be rejected , unless we humbly comply with the power and authority of the Church , which hath so ordered it , and clearly confess that the Church can judge of Scriptures ? Thus since it is plain , that the Church is ancienter then Scripture , and that no Scripture can be thought authentical , without the authority of the Church , Exod. 20. can any Christian be blamed , for saying that he would never believe the Scripture , but that the Authority of the Church commanded ? it over over and above all this the Authority of the Church over Scripture is hugely evident in many particulars of Scripture : As first , Matth. 28. Act. 15. the Scripture commands thus , Remember that thou keep holy the Sabbath day , six days shalt thou labour , and do all that thou hast to do , but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God , &c. And yet the Church changed the Sabbath into the Lords day by its own authority , Matth. 28.19 , 20. and not only without , but against known Scripture . Again , Christ said to his Disciples in the Mount , that he came not to dissolve the Law , but fulfill it ; and yet the Church in the Apostles Councel , decreed and pronounced boldly for the Cessation of those Legalities . We find again in the last of St. Matthew , Christ saying to his Disciples , Go ye therefore , and teach all Nations , baptizing them in the name of the Father , and of the Son , and of the Holy Ghost , teaching them to observe all things , whatsoever I have commanded you . Here Christ laid down an express form of Baptism in the name of the holy Trinity , and yet the primitive Church did think fit to change that form into a Baptism in the name of Jesus Christ only , for so St. Peter enjoyned them , Repent and be baptized every one of you , in the name of Jesus Christ , for the remission of sins , &c. And again we finde that the Samaritars were baptized by St. Philip in the name of Jesus : Act. 2.38 . Acts 8. Act. 19.5 . Act. 15.28 29. So again , upon St. Pauls preaching at Ephesus , when they heard this , they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus . Above all this , we find the Scripture telling us , that it was defined in the Apostles Councel thus : It hath seemed good to the holy Ghost , and to us , &c. that ye abstam from meats offered unto Idols , and from blood , and frous things strangled , &c. This we see is most plainly and expresly defined by the Apostles , and as clearly attested by Scripture , and yet the Church in after Ages hath thought fit to change that decree , and permit Christians to eat strangled things and blood ; nay , you that dispute against the Authority of the Church in matters of Faith , are contented to submit to it in point of eating , you could not otherwise deny the eating of a black pudding or strangled Hen , to be a most notorions transgression , nor could any thing excuse us from sin in so doing , if the Church h●d not a power over the Scriptures . And to conclude , if the authority of the Church were not over the Scriptore , then all Jews that should be converted now to the Faith of Christ and come to Baptism , should be tyed still to the observation of Mases his Law ; for so we finde in Scripture , that the Apostles themselves , and others of th● Nation , which became Converts , did always do . St. James , and all the Elders said to St. Paul upon his return from the Gentiles ; Thou seest brother , how many thousands of Jews there are which believe , and they are all zealous for the Law , and they are informed of thee , that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles , to forsake Moses , Saying , Act. 21.18 20 , 21 , 22 , 23 , 24 , 25. that they ought not to circumcise their children , neither to walk after the custums : What is it therefore ? the multitude must needs come together ; for they will hear that thou art come . Do therefore this that we say unto thee , we have four men which have a vow on them . Them take and purifie thy self with them , and be at chrrges with them , that they may shave their heads , and all may know , that those things whereof they were informed concerning thee are nothing , but that thy self also walkest orderly , and keepest the Law . As touching the Geutiles which believe , we have written , and concluded , that they observe no such thing , save only that they keep themselves from things offered unto Idols , and from blood , and from things strangled , and from fornica●on . Here it is plain that St. Paul with many thousands more , did observe the Law of Moses , and that by the immediate order of St. James , the Prelate of the place , and the Councel of all the Elders . This we know clearly altered since by the authority of the Church , and what a fine confusion it would produce , if otherwise practised now , I will leave your self to judge .

To the second .

I say , that what you urge out of Deuteronomy , makes no more against us , then it does against the Apostles themselves , from whence we received our Traditions : but most especially St. Paul , who expresly bids us to hold fast the Traditions which we have received : Nay , and all the holy Fathers of the Primitive Church , who have always imbraced , and held them . Nay yet further , you do most manifestly oppose and oppugne your own selves , who receive the Tradition of Scripture , the Lords day , and many holy days , with divers other things which you hold in great reverence , by no other Authority . If therefore we Catholicks offend in so doing , then the Apostles themselves , and all the Primitive Fathers and Christians , and you your selves are as guilty of a fault ; if they be innocent , and you too , why should we be condemned ? Again , give me leave to tell you , that you have wholly mistaken the sense of that Text , and that I will demonstrate to you out of the context ; which runs thus . Deu 4.1.2 . Now therefore hearken , O Israel , un-the Statutes , and unto the Judgements , which I teach you for to do them , that ye may live , and go in , and possess the Land , which the Lord God of your Fathers giveth you . Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you ; neither shall you diminish ought from it , that ye may keep the Commandments of the Lord your God which I command you . As if he should say , I give unto you precepts both Ceremonial and Judicial , which ye ought perfectly and entirely to keep ; for so much is signified in those words ye shall not add nor diminish ; and this precept to that people , is delivered though in other words , yet to the very same sense in divers other places , that they should be punctual in the observation of what was commanded them , and not to swerve or turn to the right hand or the left . So that these three things are upon the matter all one , that is perfectly and intirely to keep Moses his precepts , Deut. 17.20 . Deut. 28.14 . Deut. 31.29 . Josu. 1.7 . not to turn from them neither to the right hand , nor to the lest , and last of all , neither to add to , nor diminish from their observation . Which now is plain cannot be so understood , as if it were unlawfull to add any new precept ; for then it had been utterly unlawful to add those new Evangelical precepts , as Faith in the blessed Trinity , the whole business of Holy Baptism , and the Eucharist ; which you receive as well as we : but the sense of those Texts must be plainly this , that they ought to be very exact in the observation of Moses his Laws , not to corrupt them with any addition or dimunition , but to keep them intirely ; as for example , this was a Mosaical precept . Levit. 12.2 , 3. If a woman have conceived seed , ann born a man child , then she shal be unclean seven days , &c. And in the eighth day , the flesh of his soreskin shall be circumcised , &c. To this precept now , it was not lawful to add or diminish from that , it was not lawful , neither before nor after the eigth day to circumcise the child , nor was the uncleanness of the mother to last more or less than seven days . Now the same reason holds throughout all other precepts , as I shall shew you in my answer to your next Argument . But from what has been said already , it is very evident , that this Text out of Deuteronomy , which you press so hard , makes nothing at all to the purpose , unless you can think this a good Argument . The Jews were bound perfectly and entirely to keep the commands of Moses ; therefore Christians must not admit of Apostolical Traditions , but be content with only Scripture : which I think no reasonable man wil take for other than an absutd and ridiculous consequence . But that the business may be more clear , give me leave to ask of you , whether those commands did belong to the Jews only , or to us Christians , as well as they ? If to the Jews only , why do you alledge that Text against us , or why should we be obliged to the observation of those precepts ? If they belong to us Christians likewise , why do not you keep all the Mosaical Law ? Why do not all the Mankinde amongst you Circumcise themselves ? And why do you forbeare the observation of all the lethe legal Ceremonies ? In the last place answer me , why do you urge the first particle of the text against us , you shall not add , and do not in like manner , urge against your selves , ye shall not diminish ? but I fear I have been too long in this .

To the third .

I wonder truly how you can infer from that Text , that nothing is to be done , but what God commands , and all humane precepts to be cast away . If so , what will you say of the Jews themselves , Jer. 35.6 Acts 15.29 . that did with all exactness observe the Feast of Dedication that was no more then a humane precept ? What will you say of the Rechabites , who did most religiously observe the Command of their Father Jonadab , in a perpetual abstinence from wine ? What will you think of the Apostles , who in their Council at Jerusalem commanded abstinence from blood and things strangled ? 1 Cor. 7.12 . what will you think of St. Paul , who distinguisheth between his own commands and those of Jesus Christ , what will you think of all sorts of Magistrates , who are forced to fasten humane Laws and precepts upon us , for the preservation of peace and justice in a Common-Wealth ? What must ye think of your selves , who in your Synods & Conventicles make Laws and Ecclesiasticall decrees , to bind up your own Congregations to obedience and will have observ'd by all ? In the next place give me leave to tell you , that the sence of this place is clean otherwise then what you would impose upon it . For as in your last Argument , you prest a Text that was to be underst●od in generall , of all the precepts that were delivered by Moses , Deut. 12.30 , 31 , 32. which were to be exactly and entirely observ'd , so here you urge another that enjoins the entire Observation of one sort of sacrifice , and the Text runs thus . When the Lord thy God shall out of the Nations from before thee , whither thou goest to possess them and then succeedest them and dwellest in their land , Simila . take heed to thy self that thou be not snared by following them , and that thou enquire not after their gods , saying , how did these Nations serve their gods , even so will I do likewise . Thou shalt not do so unto the Lord thy God : for every abomination to the Lord which he hateth , have they done unto their gods for even their Sons and daughters have they burnt in the fire to their gods , then follows , whatsoever thing I command you to do it , thou shalt not adde nor diminish from it . All which as I humbly conceive amounts to this , When thou shalt come into Palestin , the Land of Promise , whither thou art going , and shalt offer to the Lord thy God a Sacrafice , thou shalt not imitate the Gentiles that offer their sons and daughters by fire to their falfe gods , but this thou shalt onely offer what I command thee . To wit , of the Beasts Sheep , Goats , Kids , Oxen , Calves , Pigeons , Sparrows , Turtles . Of the fruits of the earth , fine flower , Bread , Salt , Fiankensence , handfulls of Ears of Corn and Wheat ; and of Liquors , Blood , Wine , Oyl , Water . This onely do , that is offer to the Lord , thou shalt not adde any thing of the Sacrinces of the Gentiles , nor diminish any thing of mine , that I have commanded thee . What you will conclude from hence , I know not unless you infer thus ; The Jews were oblig'd to offer nothing in Sacrifice to God , but what the Lord had commanded , therefore Christians-ought not to observe any humane precepts , whether civil or Ecclesiasticall : a most excellent consequence , so fare it well .

To the Fourth .

I answer , that your Argument would be much better imployed upon your selves then against us , and in this manner I retort it . If any man shall preach another Gospell than that which the Apostle himself preacht , let him be Anathema , but you preach another Gospell b●sides , nay against that which the Apostle taught & preacht , because do manifestly oppose Traditions , which he commanded us to keep , when he said hold fast traditions ; therefore you are to be Anathema . But to answer yet more closely to what you urge out of the Apostle ; I would desire you to gather out of the scope of the Apostle , whether his intention was there ro condem all traditions , or only this , G●l. 2.16 . c. 1.6 . c. 3.1 . c. 4.9 &c. 5.1 . that the Galations being taught by St. Paul , that the ceremonies of the Mosaicall Law were abrogated , and that not any man could bee justified by those Cnremonies , but by faith in Christ , and they were from this Doctrine seduced by some false Apostles , who taught that they could not be saved by faith in Christ , unless they were also circumcised and observed other moisaic●l Ceremonies : St Paul here addresseth himself against those falfe Apostles , when he saith , and if any man preach any other Gospell then that ye have received , let him be occursed : so much as to say , you have received from me that a man is justified by faith in Christ and not at all for the observances of Moses his Laws , if any man instruct you otherwise , let him be accursed . But how can it follow frow hence that Apostalicall Traditions are to be rejected , but rather received , conserved , and Religiously to be honoured , because they are not against that which St. Paul preacht to the Galatians concerning Justification , but rather they are that very thing which he preacht to the Thessalonians , when he bid them hold fast the traditions that they learnt , and that the Word received in the Text , does sufficiently clear , for he speaks not only of the Gospell that he had preacht , but o● the Gospell that they had received .

To the Fifth .

I say your Argument is ve●y weak , which you draw out of Sr. John , which you frame thus as I understand it . It is not lawfull to adde to the Words of that Revellation , therefore it is not lawfull to adde our tradition ; to Scripture , let any one judge now whether that be a naturall consequence ? the truth on 't is , that that Text out of the Reuelation may be most clearly brought against most of you , who do not only diminish the Words of that Prophesie , but take the whole to be suspected , thrust it out of your Canon , and account it for Apocrypha . Then others of you again are pleasd to adde to it most notoriously , as when some of your Doctors go about to intepret that part of the Revelation , which tells us , that there shall come two witnesses , that shall prophesie a 1260. Rev. 11.3.6 . days cloathed in Sackclooth , who shal have power to shut heaven in the days of their prophesie , and have power over Waters to turn them inblood , &c. they will perswade us that these two witnesses are your two great Prophets , Luther and Calvin ; now it is plain , that they were not cloath'd in Sackcloth , nor had power to shut heaven , &c , Now it is evident that the Text you Quote , makes nothing towards the condemnation of our traditions , but forbids that nothing be added to that book , but that which is a true part of that Apocalyptical Prophecy : Otherwise it must be unlawfull to receive the Prophesies of Jeremy , Isay and other Prophets of the Old Testament , as also the Gospels and Epistles of the new , and our whole Symbol of faith . So that it is plain we are only by the Text forbidden to deprave any part of that Apocalyptical Prophesie , which the Apostle in in●●tes maybe done 2. ways , either by addition by putting any thing into that Prophesie , which truely is no part of it : Or by dimination , as if any man should detract from it , any part as not belonging to it , which really was so . Now when you have shewed that we Catholicks do either of that , I shall grant your Argument to conclude something .

To the Sixth .

I say you still strangly conclude out of the Apostle , and I pray you mark your Argument . All Scripture is profitable for doctrine , for reproof , for correction , for instruction , &c. Therefore all Traditions are unnecessary . I will give you such another cousequence . All meat is profitable for nourishment , therefore drink is unnecessary . Or thus , all Alms giving is profitable for Salvation , Luk. 11.43 . Dan. 1.34 . as St. Luke and the Prophet Daniell assures us , therefore prayer is to no purpose , and the Sacraments themselves are unnecessary . Or it may be you intend your Argument thus , all Scripture is profitable , that is sufficient , therefore Traditions are altogether uselesse . What strange interpretation of Scripture is this ? Is to be profitable and sufficient alone ? then mark this consequence , St. Paul tells Timothy , that godlinesse is profitable to all things , 1 Tim. 4.8 . 2 Tim. 4.11 . therefore all other things are unnecessary . Again the same Apostle bids Timothy , take Mark and bring him with him , adding , that he was profitable unto him for the Ministry : therefore Timothy , Titus , Onesimus and Luke that was then with him , were all unnecessary . Who sees not now , that if his Licence may be admitted of interpreting Scripture after this manner , that the whole must of necessity be corrupted quickly & adulterated . But now that you may more clearly see your errour , I will shew you the whole scope of the Apostle in these words . First in the precedent Words , he exhorts Timothr as a Bishop , to instruct those that are commited to his charge in faith and good works , and to reprove and convince adversaries who rejected the truth and were men of corrupt minds , reprobate concerning the faith , and so he addes to shew him how he was to do it , 2 Tim. 3.8 . ver. 14 , 15 , 16. these words . But continue thou in the things that thou hast learned , and hast been assured of , knowing of whom thou hast learned them , and that from a Child thou hast known the holy Scriptures which are able to make thee wise unto salvation , through faith which is in Christ Jesus , for all Scripture is given by inspiration of God , and profitable for doctrine , for reproof , for correction , &c. Now here by the Scripture , which he says , Timothy had known from his Infancy , he must needs understand the Scripture of the Old Testament , for at that time when Timothy was a child , there could be no Scripture of the new Testament extant . The Apostle the refore in the Text so argues , all Scripture divinely inspired , is profitable to teach friends to convince adversaries , but the Scripture of the Old Testament , which thou hast learnt from thy Infancy , is divinely inspired , there it is so , and so profitable . In the same manner we under the Gospell , may agree thus . All Scripture divinely inspired , is profitable to teach , to reproves &c. But the Scripture of the New Testament is divinely inspired , therefore it is profitable to teach , reprove , &c. That is , whosoever is instructed in knowledge of that , shall find great helps to perform all that now out of these Arguments , grounded upon that Text which you urg , we may collect these 3 propositions to be true . First , that all Scripture divniely inspired is profitable to teach , reprove , &c. 2ly . That the Scripture of the Old Testament is profitable to teach Thirdly , that the Scripture of the Old Testament is so ; and so profitable likewise . So as therefore this does not follow the Scripture of the Old Testament is altogether uselesse and unnecessary , so neither does this follow . The Scripture of the New Testament is profitable , Therefore the Scripture of the Old is altogether uselesse and unnecessary . Nor can this with more reason follow , the Scripture of both Testaments New and Old , is so and so profitable , therefore Tradition is altogether uselesse and unnecessary . Then that which the same Apostle tells us in another place , I am sure were altogether impertinent , if not impions ; When he says , hold fast Traditions .

To the Seventh .

I answer in short , that there can be none so blind but must see , that which you urge out of the Gospell and Epistles , was only spoken , either of Traditions of the Jews , which the Pharisees made ill use of , as I have shew'd you before : or of the traditions of the Gentiles , which were quite and clean repugnant to Christianity , but such as those we speak not of , much less defend , but onely those divine and Apostolicall traditions , which we have received , and must for ever continue in the Christian Church .

to the Eight .

I confesse the Church to be a Congregation of all the faithfull , which are of the body of Christ ; but yet we know what is done by our Princes , Peers and Commons assembled in Parliament , is said to be done by the whole Nation : so what the Prelates of the Church with those others , that are chosen to sit with them in Councels shall determine , is said to be done by the whole Church . For otherwise the Church could never be Congregated , & then to what purpose did our Saviour say that , in St. Matthew , But if he will not hear thee tell the Church , but if he shall not hear the Church let him be to thee as a Heathen and a Publican . Matth. 18. Now he that would tell the Church any thing in your sence , must ramble all the World over to do it . But it is plain that our Saviour by the Church there , meant the Prelates and Presidents of it , for presently after he speaks to his Apostles as to Prelates , and give them the power of binding , &c. That you may the better understand this , take along with you the whole context of that place of Denteronemy , which I have before quoted to you , and that you shell find to be this . Deut. 17. If there arise a matter too hard for thee in judgment , between blood and blood , between Plea and Plea , & between stroak and stooak , being matters of controversie within thy Gaces , then shalt thou arise and get thee up into the place which the Lord thy God shalt chuse and thou shalt come unto the Priests and Levite● , 8 , 10 , 11 , and unto the Judge that shall be in those days , and enquire : and they shall shew thee the sentence of judgement . And thou shalt do according to the sentence which they of that place ( which the Lord shall chuse ) shall shew thee , 12 , 13 , 14. and thou shalt observe to do according to all , that they inform thee . Accorto the Sentence of the Law which they shall teach thee , & according to the judgment which they shal tel thee , thou shalt do , thou shalt not decline from the sentence which they shall shew thee , to the right hand nor to the left . And the man that will do presumptuosly , and will not heark in unto the Priest ( that standeth to Minister there before the Lord thy God ) or unto the Judge , even that man shall dye , and thou shalt put away the evill from Israel . I pray you observe there the power and great authority of the old Legal Priests , and consider then the just power that the Evangelicall ones ought to have , and do not forget to observe the dismall punishment of presumption , and disobedience . Then I pray you be pleas'd to observe how the Primitive Christians did follow the orders that were given by Moses in Denteronemy , for we find in the Acts , that when a great dissention arose about the businesse of circumcision , the Apostles and Elders came together for to consider the matter , and upon the issue of the dissention and disputation , they determined to send Paul and Barnabas up to Jerusalem unto the Apostles and Elders there about this question , and they did so , and it follows it so pleased the Apostles and Elders with the whole Church , now what was the whole Church there , not the whole Congregation of Christians , but they went up to the Apostles and Elders about this question , here it is plain that the Apostles and Elders were the representative body of the Church .

To the Ninth and last .

I utterly deny the whole Church to be such an invisible thing , as you world have much less not to be understood ; for first if it were so hidden from the eyes and understanding of men , why or how should our Saviour command ▪ us to tel , the Church ; and if he hears not the Church , Math. 18. Rom. 12. 1 Cor. 1.12 Ephes. 1.5 . Col. 1. &c. Now if the Church were hidden , how could any man tell it any thing ? and if it were not to be understood how could any men hear it ? Do we not find that the Church is the body of Christ and all Christians the members ? and this is plain in severall places of Scripture ? Now how can you say that body and those members are hidden and the Church to be only in clouds , when St. Paul tells us plainly , you are the body of Christ , and members one of another , &c. Luke 11. It has been of Hereticks always to run into Dens and Caves and hiding holes , the Church h●'s always put the Candle in the candlestick , as the Gospel teacheth us . The Church ha's been always visible to us in Councils in the Apostolicall Seat , in Bishops , Presidents and Pastor ; of severall Churches . 2 Cor. 8.18 . For if the Church were in the clouds , and a meer Mathematical Phancasme , as you would have it , how could the Brother that St. Paul speaks of , have his praise throughout all the Churches ? And the Prophet David repeats so often , with thee is my praise and glory in the Congregation of thy people , and in the Chair of the Elders , Psal● 21. Psal. 106. let thy name be praised , and desires that he may see the good of his chosen that he may rejoyce in the gladnesse of his people and that he may glory with his inheritance &c. Now I have been inform'd indeed that it ha's ever been the fashion of all old Hereticks to strengthen the Church with a narrow compass , and draw it within the compasse of one of their convanticles , I hope you will not be guilty of that fault ; and whereas you urge it for a matter of faith , therefore not to be seen ; I ask you whether God the Creator be not to be seen in every thing that moves and has a being , and yet the Creation is an Article of faith . I ask whether Jesus Christ God the son was not seen in the flesh , and to ascend visibly into heaven , and yet matters of faith . I ask again whether God the holy Ghost was not seen visibly to discend upon the Apostles , and yet an Article of faith propo●'d by the same Apostles : and so the same I say of the Holy , Catholick and Apostolick Church .

Now because I have been so large in my answers , I shall not need to be otherwise then short in my replies , but something I shall urge to you out of Scripture ; according to my former method , and that Scripture alone cannot be the Rule of our faith , I prove thus .

I shal begin with the Articles of your faith , and ours , contein'd in the Apostles Creed , and a●k you whether alll those are to be proved out of expresse Scripture . As first : that Article of Christs discent into Hell , the Church ha's ever believed it , ●ecles . 24. as it is propos'd locally , but how shall we prone it I say out of Scripture ? if out of Ecclesiasticus where it is said , I will pierce into the lower mo●● parts of the Earth ; you will say it is Apocripha , If out of St. Paul to the Ephesians , Eph. s . 4.9 , 10. where is it said now that he ascended , what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth he that descended is the same also that ascended up farre above all things , &c. Some of your Doctors have found a shift for that too : First they will say that he descended by his power not by his person . Then they will tell you of his descen into the wombs of the Virgin , &c.

Now as you are pleased to distinguish upon it , what are we the better in that point for the Scripture ? Then in the Athanasian Creed , how will you prove the one substance of the blessed Trinity ? if from that text in the Gospell ( I and my Father are one ) some of you will venture a distinction upon it too , as that they are one in will , not in substance .

Then again , as to the perpetuall Virginity of our blessed Lady , which some of you will please to deny , but most prudent Christians believe : what Scripture have we for it , or for your and our observation of the Lords Day ; I know no Scripture that ( and so for a hundred things more ) can be produced .

I say sure according to your judgement , that nothing is to be received but clear and expresse Scripture . Out Saviour himself not clearly proved the Resurrection of our bodies against the Saduces , for he brought no certain cleare and expresse text , but onely this because it is said in the Old Testament , the God of Abraham , the God of Isass , and the God of Jacob ; our Saviour therefore infers , that God is not the God of the dead , but of the living , and then we know that those Patriarchs were only living in their souls , not in their bodies : So I say upon your grounds , that was no conviction to the Sadduces ; By all this it is plain , that not only those things are to be blessed , and observed , which are expresly to be found in holy writ , or clearly proved out of it , as those of your Church will have it ; but also we are to believe and observe , what our holy Mother the Church believes and observes . For we see all things of Faith are not clearly delivered in sacred Scripture , but very many things are left to the determination of the Church , which because it is enlightened & governed by the holy Ghost , cannot possibly wander or go astray out of the track of truth . John 76.13 , 13. Our Saviour , therefore in St. Johns Gospel said to his Disciples , I● have yet many things to say unto you , but ye cannot bear them now ; Howbeit , when he the Spirit of truth is come , b● will guide you into all truth , &c. The holy Church therefore observeth many things in its Rites , and Ceremonies , besides matters of faith , from the familiar instinct of the holy Spirit , and by the tradition of the Apostles and Primitive Fathers , which though they are not expresly to be found in holy Scriptures , yet they are no ways against them , or differ from them . Nay they are in all things most conformable to them , and therefore to be embraced and observed by all good Christians ; for so St. Paul most expresly tells us : 2 Thes , ● . 15 . Therefore Brethren stand fast , and hold the Traditions , which ye have been tavght whereby word , or our Epistles .

Again , St. Paul speaking to the Corinthians , 1 Cor. 11.34 . concerning the blessed Eucharist a thing in Christianity , as I take it , of greatest concernment , tels them that the rest he nill set in order , when he comes ; so all was not to be ordered by his Epistle , or written words , but something it is plain he was afterwards to dispose of concerning that important affair , by word of mouth .

In like manner , St. 2 John 12 John tels the honourable Matron that he writ unto , That hebad many things to write unto her , but be would not writer with paper and ●nk , but he trusted to come unto her , and speak face to face , &c. And so he likewise tells his friend , Gaius , sohn 3. vers. 13 , 14 That he trusted shortly to see him , and that they should speak face to face , and yet he said before , that he had many things to write unto him , but he would not with ink and pen write unto him , &c. By all which it is plain , that Christians are not in all things to be ruled and determined by the word written . Nay do we not plainly finde many things both of the words and deeds of our blessed Saviour , that none of the Evangelists make mention of , Act. 20.26 1 Cor. 15.6 . which the Apostles have supplied and exprest in word or deed . As first , St. Paul in the Acts of the Apostles , cites some words of our Saviours , that are not to be found in any of the Evangelists , and he bids them to remember the words of the Lord Josus , how he said , that it is more blessed to give , than to receive ; and no such thing , or to that purpose , I could find yet , in any of the Gospels . In like manner , some of his most confiderable deeds , were not fully described , or at all signified to us , by any of the Evangelists , As that he was seen by above five bundred brethren at once , which St. Paul most expresly affirms to the Corinthians , which apparition of his I could never read any thing of , Luke 10.35 . as I said before , in any of the Gospels .

Then there are some Ecclesiastical observancies , which you retain still in your Church , that neither are to be found in Scripture , nor is the reason apparent to every one , why they were ever invented or used ; As first , that we kneel at our prayers , is not from any command in Scripture , and yet you your selves hold it highly necessary . Then that we choose out of all the corners of heaven , that side where the Sun riseth , towards which to turn our selves praying , it is neither in Scripture , nor apparently in reason to ordinary capacities , but only that it has been the practice of the universal Church .

Again we know , as I have shewed formerly , in the Old Testament , Dent. 17. Ezeth . 44. the Law was not the judge of difficulties , but the Priest , so at large in Deuteron●●y , and the Prophet Ezekiel tels us plainly , that the Priest ; shall stand in judgement , and they only shall judge .

Now it is clear , that we admit of Scripture as well as you , but we differ in the understanding of it , because you will have your own single judgments upon it to be your Rule , and we admit no other judge , but that authority which gives it , that is the Church . And this is apparently the reason , why all you that are out of the Church do so differ amongst your selves upon all points , and principally in that great point , concerning the blessed Sacrament , whether it be truly , and spiritually the very body and blood of Christ , by the figure and signs , and the bare letter of Scripture will never be able to determine betwixt you , and so there must be an impossibility of Accord in that , and a hundred things more . Thus we see that the Devil himself could alledge Scriptue against our blessed Saviour , which was , that God had given his Angels charge over him , to keep him , &c. But he malitiously mistook , Metth. 4. or through ignorance misunderstood , which is not altogether so likely the sense of that place . Now whereas you do all pretend that the holy Scriptures are clear , and easie to be understood of all ordinary Readers , and so that lay people , and doting old women may be bold to venter their interpretations , and comments upon it : that is clean contrary to what St. Peter tells you , speaking of all the Epistles of St. Paul , in which are something hard to be understood , which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest as they do also the other Scriptures , unto their own destruction . Thus do you see what unhappy mistakes there were upon St. Pauls writings while St. Paul himself was yet alive , how much more then must there needs be now upon those grounds that you receive them . Niy St. Paul himself tells you , that if his Gospel be hid , it is hid to them , that are lost : Now it is plain it cannot be hidden to us , who take the sense and interpretation of the whole Church , you had best therefore look to your selves , that you be not lost by hiding of it from your selves . And if the blessed Fathers of the Church , that were so conversant in Scripture , yet understood it not in those times , so near to the time of Christ himself , as some of you say that they did not , how can you presume upon your selves , and some late Doctors , that have dared to give you a contrary Doctrine , to what they have delivered to us ? I have often meditared upon that place in St. Lukes Cospel , where it is said of the good Samaritan , that when he departed , he took out two pence , and gave them to the Host , and said unto him , take care of him , and what ever thou spendest more , when I come again I will repay thee . Just so me thinks our Saviour hast left us two Testaments , and whatsoever the Apostles , Doctors , and Fathers of the Church have added more , and we shall humbly observe , he when he comes again , of his great goodness will repay us . Now to summ up all , it is plain , by this that has been said , that some Traditions of the Church must have equal authority with Scripture , as the commands of a Prince have equal force and power upon Subjects , whether by word of mouth delivered , or by writing . So the word of God , written or delivered , is still the word of God , and of equal power . And if you say that the Apostolical Tradition cannot be the word of God , I ask you whether the other part of the Apostles , that have left us nothing in writing , were not as well inspired of the Holy Ghost as they that did : you cannot sure deny it , and they were too the greater part of the Twelve . Now the Church of Christ still retains many things of their Doctrine , thorgh we have none of their writing , and sure we are to give as much credit to those that writ not , as those that did . I ask you again , whether it be not a point of faith , that the whole Scripture taken together , of the Old and New Testament is the word of God ? and again whether all that Scripture , especially in those things which concern Faith , and Salvation be not most clear from corruption ? and again , that we have the true genuine , and legitimate sense of that Scripture , is a point of faith too . I believe you will not deny any one of these to be a point of your Faith : I am sure they are all of mine , so you must first acknowledge that I give as great an honour to Scripture as your self ; and then if we both admit those three positions , as principles of Faith , we must necessarily admit of Traditions ; for we have no Authority but that to justifie them , and if we do not admit those for principles , our Faith it self is wholly vain .

Then besides these three principles of Faith , there are others also , which we have only by Tradition , as that the Symbol of our Faith , is Canonical and Apostolical . Then that Infants are to be baptized . Then that those who are baptized by Hereticks , are not to be re-baptized . Then as is aforesaid , that the blessed Mother of God , alwayes remained a Virgin . Then that in Baptism those words ought to be pronounced , I baptize thee in the name of the Father , and of the Son , and of the Holy Ghost , and that without them , there can be no valid Baptisme . Then that there is a certain , and determinate number of Sacraments and what that number is . All these things , I say , are not clearely to be found in Scripture but we must be beholding to the Authority of Tradition ,

But last of all for Ecclesiastical Rites and Ceremonies , it is manifest that we can have no other authority but Tradition , and not Apostolicall ; for all those neither , but some of them only from the Primitive Fathers that succeeded the Apostles in the Government of Christs Church , and that sure it security enough for the practice and perswasion of any Christian : for I have heard that a very ancient and most learned Father said , that it was a piece of most insolent madnesse , to dispute the doing of that , which the Church of Christ throughout the whole world has always frequented , and practised ; so 〈◊〉 you to it .

There were other wicked and idolatrous Kings , as Abaz , Manasses , Amon , and some others wicked , though not idolaters , but yet the use of the Divine Sacrifice and worship according to the Mosaical Law , does appear still to have remained in the Temple of Solomon , til the Babylonish captivity , as is evident by several places of Scripture . Then for the failing of the Synagogue in the time of Christ , which you alledge , it is not to be supposed that they failed from the true faith , which was before profest , but she with her ceremonies and Sacrifices was turned out of dores , as was before typified in Abrahams bondwoman , it does not therefore follow that the Church , the true wife should be so too . Then the Synagogue was therefore turned away because it was neither perfect , nor sufficient to salvation , Heb. 7.19 . for so St. Paul tells us that the Law brought nothing to perfection , and in that sense the ceremonies and Sacraments of the Synagogue , are called by the same Apostle , Gal. 4.9 . weak and beggarly elements , but now the Church of Christ is perfect and sufficient to salvation , because it's Sacraments which are instituted by Christ , carry with them a vertue of justification , and taking away of sinnes : the Sacrrments of the old Law , only promised a Saviour , but the Sacraments of the new give salvation . Again , the Synagogue contained only the shadow of future things as St. Paul speaks ; Heb. 10.1 . Ioh. 1.9 . but the Church contains the light it self , which is Christ , as St. Iohn assures us : now the shadow must necessarily fly before the light ; the Synagogue therefore , with the Mosaical Sacrifices , ought to cease when the Church comes with Christ . Last of all , the Synagogue was instituted for servants , the Church for sonnes , now servants take wages of their masters for a time , and so are dismist by their masters ; but sonnes succeed in the perpetual inheritance , which the Apostles thus insinstates to the Galatians , Gast out the bondwoman and her sonne , Gal. 4.30 . for the sonne of the bondwoman shall not be heire with the sonne of the free woman , and so enough of difference I conceive is shewed , between the Synagogue , and the Church , to shew you that the reason is not the same .

To the second .

I deny that there shall be an universal falling away of the faithfull in the time of Antichrist , but of some onely . And in that methinks you contradict your self , for you say that Antichrist is already come , and yet you affirm that there are some faithfull lest . Then it is a great dispute , as I have understood amongst the learned , whether the Apostle out of whom you take your proofe , speaks there of a falling away from the faith ; for many of the most learned are of opinion , that he only speaks of a falling away from the Romane Empire . But that euriosity I shall not further meddle withall , it being out of our road , and above our pitch .

To the Third .

In truth methinks it is a very sad course of arguing , that most of your Church are pleased to use , that is , if you can find any one Text that is never so obscure , if it can be fashioned at all for your turn , you will entirely insist upon it , though there be hundreds of clear Texts to the contrary . As for example , This Text you urge out of Daniel , is very dark , That he shall cause the Sacrifice and oblation to cease . I am sure these Texts are very clear , That the gates of hell shall not prevail against it ; again , I am alwayes with you to the end of the world ; and again , I have prayed for thee , that thy faith fail not ; and again , The Church is the pillar and foundation of truth : These Texts I say are clear and need no Interpreter , the other that you quote is so obscure , that the greatest learning in the world may be at a stand , to understand it . For most understand that place of the failing of the Synagogue , and the cessation of the Jewish Sacrifices , not at all of the Christian Church : And those that do interpret it of the Christian Church , make it to be the cessation of publick worship only , not of the Christian faith .

To the Fourth .

I grant that the Church is frequently compared to the Moon , but never as to her failings , but in these respects following . First , as the Moon in the beginning of the moneth is very litle , and so by litle and litle encreaseth , till she grow full andperfect ; so the Christian Church in the beginning of its rise , took up but very litle room , afterward encreased and spead it self by degrees that at last it should diffuse it self over the face of the whole world . Secondly , as the Moon receives corporeal light from the Sun , so the Church receives its light of faith and holiness , from the Sun of righteousness , that is Christ . Thirdly , as the Moon is subject to changes , so is the Church in this life , for sometimes she flourisheth in the splendor of peace , sometimes is oppressed with persecutions , but never totally fayles , it may be clouded for a while , but never quite extinguished . You see then in what the similitude between the Moon , and the Church consists , and no similitude , as I am informed , is obliged to run upon four feet . The Church cannot at all be like the Moon in her failings , but more resembles the earth , as she is likewise called in Scripture for her firmness , stability & unmoveableness . Then why should you bring that similitude to the prejudices of the Church , when there are so many to the favour and honour of her throughout the sacred Scripture , where you may find that she is as frequently called the Sun as the Moon , an enclosed Garden , a Fountain , a Paradise , a fair Dove , the City of God , the Land of the living , the woman cloathed with the Sun , the Queen in a vesture of gold , &c. and many more such honorable titles as those , you cannot but your own reading find out in Scripture , and those methinks , all dutifull children should be more ready to give to their Mother , then to throw dirt in her face , or to asperse her with calumnies : as for the honesty & goodness of Wicklif , Huss , Luther , and Calvin , I will not meddle , but only ask you , who were the one or two honest and godly men , that in the ages before them , did ever so contradict the Church ? if you know not any such , why do you so rashly affirm it ? if you do , I should desire you to name them , and let us know whereabouts they lived . Howsoever by your argument you make the Church of Christ to be in a worse condition then the Synagogue of the Jews , Gal. 4.11 . when we know the Church is our Mistress , and the Synagogue but a servant , but the Synagogue was never so deserted , that but two onely were to be found in it . Nay in the time of Elias , Rom. 9.4 . when it was thought to be most forsaken , yet there were found in it seven thousand ; how can you possibly think the Church of Christ , should be ever left so desolate , as but two honest and godly men should be found in it , when we find it so clear said in the Prophesie of Isay , Isay 54.1 . that the Church should be of a far larger extent , and more fruitfull in its children , than ever the Synagogue was , so I pass to your last and grand concluding argument , which proves the Pope to be Antichrist , and then I hope I shall make an end with you .

To your last argument , and that which you presume will conclude me , as you have layed it , I look upon it to be the weakest , and least signifycant , that you have alledged yet , for truly all those markes of Antichrist , that you produce upon the Pope , are meer trifles , and tricks of some of your Doctors invention and truly would agree better in the application to themselves , than to his holiness , and how imposible it is , that they should be applicable to him , I 'le pass through every particular . The first note that you give of Antichrist is , that he must fall away from the faith , now defending of purgatory , invocation of saints , and sacrifice of the Mass , cannot be called falling from the faith , because the most ancient fathers of the Church , have allways been of that opinion : Your Doctors therefore are most manifestly fallen from the faith , that so expressly oppose those received Doctrines . The second mark you give of the Beast is that he shall sit in the Temple of God , and that you say the Pope does , as the head of the Church at Rome . Truly I doe humbly conceive the case to be very different , between sitting in the Temple of God at Hierusalem , and sitting in the Church of Christ at Rome . Antichrist shall sit in the Temple of Hierusalem , and be adored of the Jews , the Pope sits in the Church of Christ at Rome , which all you have most unhappyly forsaken . The third marke you say is , that he shall shew himself as God , and that the Pope plainly does you say , whilst he makes himself , the visible head of Christs Church ; but sure that is not all one , as to shew himself as God . For Peter himself shewed himself , as visible head , as we have proved already , but onely Antichrist shall shew himself as God . The fourth marke you make is , to exalt and oppose himself to and above all that is called God , and that you say the Pope does , when he exalts himself above all ecclesiastical and civil power : here give me leave to tell you that Moses was above all ecclesiasticall , and civil power , and yet in that he was not exalted above God . Thus four markes of Antichrist you are pleased to take out of the Epistle of S. Paul to the Thessalonians , your fifth marke followes out of S. John , That he must deny Jesus Christ , which you say the Pope does by the corruption of the doctrine , that concernes the mediation of Christ , and introducing of new mediators , but that I have proved to be a corruption of yours , as you wil see in my last paper . The sixth marke again , you make to be that he is a Lyer and worker of fals miracles , so you say the Pope does at Loretto and other places . I wonder your understanding is so weak , as to think , that we think that the Pope does the Loretto miracles , but God . If you would prove any thing as to this point you should prove indeed , that the Pope does those very miracles , which the Scripture foretells that Antichrist shall do , Revel. 13.13.15 . as that he should make fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men . Then that he should make the Image of a beast to speak &c. neither of these miracles , as ever I heard of , hath been attempted yet by any pope . The seventh and last marke you give , is that he causeth all both small and great , rich and poor , free and bond , to receive a mark &c. and the pope you say plainly does that , Revel. 16.13 . & ch. 14.9 . when he imposeth his Character upon some , and marks upon all , as by the Sacrament of confirmation , wherein he useth the unction of his Chrisme to sign the foreheads &c. Here are cleerly three conditions required by the text to the accomplishment of this mark : first that it should be common to all great and little , rich and poor , bond and free : Secondly , that he should impose his Character either in their foreheads or right hands : Thirdly , that none but he , that has his mark or character , shall be priviledged to buy or sell . Now let any man shew that those conditions do at all suite with the unction of Chrisme and Isle rest fully satisfied , otherwise this argument which you so fondly boast of , hath no force at all . So according to my former method , I shall be bold to reply , and to conclude your trouble and mina , upon this occasion .

That the whole Church of Christ cannot possibly erre , and that the Roman Catholick Church is that Church disperst over all the world , I prove by most express Scripture thus .

How that the Catholick Church is the body of Christ , the spouse of Christ , and the kingdom of heaven , is clear by many Scriptures , what probability then , nay what possibility is there that a thing so nearly related to him , and in so high , dear , and honorable relations , should be forsaken by him ?

First , That the Church is his body , is plain out of S. Paul , who tells us , Eph. 4. that God laid all things under his feet , and gave him to be head of the whole Church , which is his body , and the fulnesse of him who filleth all in all ; wherefore walk worthy of the vocation , wherewith you are called , with all humility and meekness , with patience and long suffering , supporting one another in charity , Cap. 5. and carefull to keep the unity of the spirit , in the bond of peace , there is one body and one spirit , even as ye are called in one hope of your calling , one Lord , one Faith , one Baptisme , one God and Father of all , who is above all , and through you all , and in you all . Then to the Corinthians again , 1 Cor. 11. Rom: 12. and to the Romanes , he sayes , ye are the body of Christ , and members one of another .

Then that the Church is the Spouse of Christ , is plain out of other Texts , as first out of the Canticles , My Dove , Cantic. 6.9 . my undefiled is but one , she is the onely one of her mother , she is the choice one of her that bare her , &c. And in another place , A garden inclosed is my Sister , my Spouse , Cant. 4.11 . a spring shut up , a fountain sealed ; and therefore S. John sayes of the new Hierusalem , which is the Church of Christ , Rev. 21.2 . that he saw her coming down out of Heaven prepared as a Bride adorned for her Husband . And S. Paul more largely and plainly yet tells the Ephesians thus , Wives submit your selves unto your Husbands , as unto the Lord , for the Husband is the head of the Wife , even as Christ is the head of the Church , Ephes. 5.22 , 23 , 24 , 25 , 26 , 27. and he is the Saviour of the body , therefore as the Church is subject unto Christ , so let the Wives be to their own Husbands in every thing , Husbands love your Wives , even as Christ also loved the Church , and gave himself for it , that he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word , that he might present it to himself a glorious Church , not having spot or wrinkle , or any such thing , but that it should be holy without blemish . Now examine , I pray you , what a prety piece of Christianity it is , to impute impurity and errour to it ?

Then that the Church is called the Kingdome of Heaven too , Mat. 20. is as plain by Scripture , first out of S. Mat. 22.2 , 3. Matthews Gospell , For the Kingdome of Heaven is like unto a man that is an householder , which went out early in the morning to hire labourers into his vineyard . Then again , The Kingdome of Heaven is like unto a certain King , Mat. 25.1 , 2 , 3. which made a marriage for his Son , and sent forth his servants to call them that were bid to the medding , &c. Then again , The Kingdome of heaven shall be likned to ten Virgins , which took their lamps and went forth to meet the Bridgroome , and five of them were wise , and five were foolish , &c. Many more such Parables we find in the Gospells , but these three will be enough for our purpose , to draw from thence these three conclusions , first , if the Church be called the Kingdome of Heaven , how should errour , falsity , and uncleaness raign in it so many hundred years , as you pretend it has ? when the Kingdome of Heaven we know is the Kingdome of truth and purity . Secondly , It is plain that God goes out even untill the evening to hire labourers whereas you do , and must maintain , that none were hired in the Church for above a thousand years , but your late upstart Doctors . Thirdly , It is plain that the Church here militant , is a collection of good and bad , for our Saviour saies plainly , that of the Virgins , five were wise , and five foolish , and so fishes good and bad come to the net of the Church . I beseech you be pleased to make your own application .

Over and above all this , I shall prove that the Church is not only incapable of errour , because it is the Spouse of Christ , his body , and called the Kingdome of Heaven , but because she is governed by the perpetual presence , power and authority of the Holy Ghost , who is never to forsake her ; Joh. 14. and first our Saviour promiseth that be will ask the Father , and he shall send another comforter , and so accordingly he did not long after in the same Gospell , Holy Father , Joh. 17.11 . keep through thine own name those that thou hast given me , &c. and he explains himself in the same cha●ter , that he prayes not for them onely , meaning his Apostles , but for them who were afterwards to believe in him through their preaching , 1 Tim. 3.15 .

Does not S Paul tell his Disciple Timothy , how he is to behave himself in the house of God , which is the Church of God , the pillar & ground of truth ; how then can it possibly erre ?

Then S. John tells us , that our Saviour said that he had many things to say unto them , but that they could not bear them then , but when the spirit of truth should come , he should teach them all truth . Again the same S. John in his Epistle General tells us , 1 John 2.20 . that we have an unction from the holy one , and that we know all things , and that we shall be alwaies capable to distinguish a lye from truth , it must be therefore the unction of the holy Ghost , that alwaies teacheth the Church .

In fine , Matth. 28.20 . S. Matthew makes them the concluding words of his Gospel , Go yet herefore & teach all Nations , &c. teaching them to observe all things , whatsoever I have commanded you , and loe I am with you alwaies , even to the end of the world . Christ who is the way , the truth and the life , said this to his Disciples , it is plain therefore that this Church , which is the pillar and ground of truth , that has him for its leader , and the Holy Ghost for its teacher , can never erre ; how probable is it then , that it should be in an errour for above a thousand years together , as you fondly imagine ?

Then as the Church is but one , so it is necessary that unity should be in the Church , I prove out of the express words of S. 1 Cor. 1.10 . Paul , Now I beseech you brethren , by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ , that ye all speak the same thing . and that there he no divisions amongst you , but that ye be perfectly joyned together in the same mind , and in the same judgement : and then in another place in the same Epistle sayes , 1 Cor. 14.33 . that God is not the author of confusion , but of peace , as in all Churches of the Saints . What then will you say for your selves , that have nothing but confusions amongst you ? nay is it not more probable that God will rather inspire his own body , that is the concord and unity of his Church , than any private Doctors whatsoever , that teach a dissent from it ?

Nay , how much this unity of his Church is desired by God himself , is evident by what the same S. Paul writes to the Romanes , Rom. 15.4 , 5 , 6. for whatsoever things are written aforetime , were written for our learning , that we through patience and comfort of the Scriptures , might have hope ; Now the God of patience and consolation , grant you to be like minded one towards another ; according to Christ Jesus , That ye may with one mind , and one mouth glorify God ; even the father of our Lord Jesus Christ , &c. Again the same Apostle in the same Epistle laies an injunction upon the Romanes , Rom. 12.16 . whose faith he acknowledged before , was celebrated over the whole world , that they should be of the same mind , one towards another , not to mind high things , but condescend to men of low estate , and not to he wise in their own conceits , which all they are , and must be , that are out of the Church .

Observe I pray you , the most pathetical exhortation of S. Paul to this purpose ; Phil. 2.1 , 2. If there be therefore any consolation in Christ , if any comfort of love , if any fellowship of the spirit , if any bowells of mercy , fulfill ye my joy , that ye be like minded , having the same love , being of one accord , of one wind . Nay , the breach of this peace , unity , and unanimity in Gods Church , is most passionately , if it be lawfull to say so , Jerem. 2.12 , 13. bewailed by God himself , as the Prophet Jeremy expresseth it , nay , proposeth it as a matter of amazement to Heaven it self ; be astonished , O ye Heavens , at this , and be horribly afraid , be ye very desolate , saith the Lord ; foy my people have committed two evils , they have forsaken me , the fountain of living waters , and hewed them out cisterns , broken cisterns , that can hold no water . I pray you seriously examine with your self , whether you do lesse , by leaving off the Church , the true and living fountain , and digging to your selves broken cisterns , out of Wicklif , Huss , Luther , Calvin , &c. In vain sure hath God sent his Son , in vain the Holy Ghost , and yet more in vain hath he sent Apostles , Martyrs , Confessors , Doctors , in all ages , to perpetuate the truth of his Church to us , when a few of such precious persons as those of yours would have served the turn . Here are only two things now as I conceive , left to be cleared , the one is , that the Prelates , and principal Persons of Christs Church assembled together , do make the representative body of the whole Church ; the other is , that the Romane Catholick Church , is that universal Church , disperst over the whole world . As to the first , it is sufficiently clear , by many such Scriptures as thse , And he stood and blessed all the congregation of Israel , with a loud voice , &c. And the King and all Israel with him , offered Sacrifice before the Lord ; now that this must be onely meant of the body representative of Israel , is plain to sense , and particularly exprest in the beginning of the Chapter , Then Solomon assembled the Elders of Israel , and all the heads of the Tribes , the chief of the Fathers of the Children of Israel unto King Solomon in Jerusalem , 1 Kings 8.58.62.1 . Thus it is plain , that the heads of the Church assembled , represent the body of the whole Church .

Then as to the clearing of the next point I must tell you a great mistake amongst you , for you commonly speaking of the Church of Rome , take it only for the particular Church , which formerly was , and still is there , and so it is no more indeed than particular . But if you take it for the collection of all the faithfull , who being disperst over all the world , did in old daies alwaies adhere , and still do to the Bishop of Rome , so it is called Catholick or Universal , because diffused over the whole world , and it is called Romane from the most noble part , the head of it : and that she must be that Universal , and for ever visible Church of Christ , is plain , because she ever has been so . Let any man shew , that any other Church has continued without errour or interruption , and I will grant you all that you have said , and can more require of me . But if it be manifest , that no one Church of Christ in the world has continued without errour , or interruption but onely she , it must follow , that she is the onely true Church of Christ . First the Jewish Church has been long since more then interrupted , quite abrogated . The Turkish or Mahumetan has not always been . The Liaheran , Calvinian , and reformed Church of England , are all new ; for they began with pretended reformation , which was made by them , and other particular Doctors , so must of necessity imply novelty : The Roman onely has persevered in its own place , and ancient profession , so must be for ever the Mother and Mistress of our faith , as taught by the Spirit of God . If any of you will say , that your Church , or any other , their Church , has continued visible , and without errour , I beg the favour onely to know by what name she was called , and is , what parts of the world she has possest , & does ? what pastors and Bishops she has had , and still has ? what Kings and Emperours have adhered to her , and still do ? What Hereticks have been condemned by her ? What Universities she hath confirmed ? What Churches and Monasteries built ? If none of this can be shown , you must give me leave to persist in my former perswasion . Now though I conceive enough said in my answer before , as to the business of the popes being Anti-christ , and that no obligation at all lyes upon me , to prove a negative , yet because that is so great a gudgeon , and so vulgarly swallowed , I shall undertake the taske a little further .

That you may better understand this controversie concerning Anti-christ , you must know that the name of Anti-christ signifies , as I am informed , an enemy , or adversary to Christ , and that must be understood in a two fold manner : first generally for any enemy of Christ , as all Hereticks are , and in that sense , we are to understand the Apostle who tells us , that even now there are many Antichrists , that is many Hereticks , that think evilly , and maliciously of Christ , of whom it follows in the Text They went cut from us , but they are not of us : and again in another chapter of the same Epistle , And every spirit that confesseth not , 1 John 4.3 . that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh , is not of God , and this is that spirit of Antichrist , whereof you have heard , that it should come , and even now already it is in the world . Secondly , it is taken specially , for the principall and grandest adversary of Christ , of whom all the rest before spoken of , are but forerunners : and of this grand Antichrist it is that S. Paul speaks , when he says , 2 Thess. 2 , 3 , 4. unless that man of sin be revealed , the son of perdition , who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God , &c. Now first I shall prove , that this special Antichrist is not yet come at all : for it is agreed upon by all the learned , that the Antichrist shall not come , till after the overthrow , and desolation of the Roman Empire , and they ground themselves upon those express places in Daniel and the Revelations , Dan 2.7 . Rev. 17. but now we know that the Roman Empire is not yet over thrown , therefore Antichrist cannot be yet come . Then we finde in the Revelation , Rev. 11.3.6 . I will give power unto my two witnesses , and they shall prophesie a thousand two hundred and threescore dayes , clothed in sackcloath , who shall have power to shut up heaven that it rain not in the dayes of their prophesie , and have power over waters to turn them into blood , &c. but these two witnesses are not yet come , fore Antichrist cannot yet be come himself . In the second place , I am to prove that the Pope is not Antichrist , and first , as before , Antichrist is not to come , but after the ruine of the Romane Empire , but the Pope came and still is , in the flourishing condition of the Romane Empire . Then Antichrist is to kill those two witnesses or Prophets , before spoken of , but this the Pope has not done , therefore . Then again , Antichrist is not to reign above three years and a half , Dan. 7.25 . Re. 11.2 . Rev. 5.3 . as first the Prophet Daniel informes us , for a time , and times , and half a time , and in the Revelation it is said , for forty and two moneths in one place , and a thousand two hundred and threescore dayes in another place : but now the Pope has raigned for many ages . Again , the Antichrist is to be received by the Jews for their Messiah , John 7.43 . 2 Thess. 10. as both S. John and S. Paul do testifie , but the Pope I am sure never yet was , and very improbable it is , that he will ever be received by them for their Mossiah . Lastly , Antichrist is to make fire come down from Heaven , Rev. 13.13 . as we see said in the Revelation , but none of this , has the Pope ever done , therefore he can never be thought to be Antichrist .

Thus I have been bold to inlarge upon this particular , it being so vulgar an errour , and the grand pretext of all the schisme and heresie in the whole world , for to justifie their defection from the Bishop of Rome : and indeed it was a very artificial trick of the Devil , and some of your Doctors , to fasten that dirt upon him , for who will be so mad to keep in communion with that man of sin , or the Antichrist , as most of your common people do most ignorantly presume him to be . And so I have done with all your Papers , but I hope I have not yet done with you , and presume that you will do me the honour very speedily to see me , that we may sit , and discourse something further upon these particulars , so the Lord give you understanding in all things , and enable me to prove more fully that I am

Mistress N. your most faithfull friend to serve you , M. Postscript .

I pray you dear Mistress N. do me the favour to come and dine with me to morrow , and bring your Husband with you , so you shall more obbige your true friend M.

So my Lady immediately closed up the Papers into one Packet , which she sealed , and presently sent it away by her servant .

FINIS .

THE DIPPER DROWNED , By endeavouring to wade in the unfathomable depths of SCRIPTVRE Whilst the FEMALE DUELLISTS Swim over him .

1 Cor. 27.

God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise .

London , Printed by Peter Lillicrap , 1661.

THE DIPPER DROWNED By endeavouring to wade in the unfathom'd depths of Scripture , &c.

Mris N. had no sooner received these papers , but she went immediately with them to her husband the Doctor , imploring his advice , and assistance in the management of hir further discourses with my Lady . The Doctor was at this time fallen into some indisposition of body , notwitnstanding he took the pains to look hastily over them , and then called his wife to him , and told her after this manner .

Indeed sweet-heart you have done very ill , to engage your self in any business of this nature , without my knowledge and approbation , for what you have said , or done amiss in it , wil be all imputed to me , though utterly ignorant , and innocent in the matter . And I must tell you , that you have ventured very boldly upon some main points , in which the most learned Doctors in the world , are yet to seek for satisfaction : and again give me leave to tell you , that you charge the Church of Rome with some things , that the Church of England does not ; and so instead of healing up those breaches that are betwixt us , which should be all our endeavours to do , you have made the wounds wider , and differences greater , then indeed they are : and that truly is no small fault amongst us all . Then last of all , I fear you have hazarded much of that good opinion , that my Lady had of us , by entring the list with her upon this occasion , and that interest we had in her , was not a little considerable , being so excellent a neighbour , and especiall a friend , as she has always been to us , so for my part I will have nothing to do in the business , but as you begun , you shall e'n make an end without me ; but if you must needs be scribling of controversie , and dabling in divinity , I 'le let you a task , and you may offer it to my Lady , if you please , and you are both , I perceive so good Scripturists , as that I may entrust you with it , it is a Paper that I received from Mr. R. the grand Patriarch of all the Anabaptist : in these parts , I will write a Letter to my Lady , to beg her excuse of me , for not waiting on her Ladyship at dinner .

Mr is . N. not a little troubled to finde no better acceptation of her zealous and painful endeavours , for my Ladies conversion , yet being unwilling to move her husband further at that time , took the Anabaptists paper from him so left him to his other studies , and she betook her self to her houshold occasions .

The next morning early , she made her self ready to wait on my Lady , that she might have some private discourse with her Ladyship before dinner , so calling for her husbands letter , she took her walk , and comming to my Ladies house , she found her in her Kitchin , giving orders about dinner , and directing her servants , how to employ themselves , in the other affairs of her family . My Lady , begging pardon for her being surprized in that place , and posture , took Mrs. N. along with her to her chamber , where after she had delivered her husbands letter , they fell to read the Anabaptists paper , which when they had done , my Lady willingly undertook the task , to joyn with her in the answer , but what shall we doe with the Latine that is here said my Lady ? O for that Madam , replyed Mrs. N. my husband will direct us , and has promised us all his assistance in this , though he does not approve our other disputes at all . Nay further he sayes , that when we have answered in our way , he will answer it too in his . Well then , replied my Lady , we will not trouble him till we have done , for I have a Kinsman in my house , that will be able to give us the English of his Latine : and so they fell to work immediately , and in two or three meetings more , they made an end of the business , in this manner as followeth .

That to build or to use Steeple-houses ( which you call Churches ) in the service of God , is altogether unlawfull , much more to beautifie or adorn them , and to give priviledges , lands or possessiens to them , or to the persons of your Churchmen , but that we are all Priests equally , and that your Canonical hours and prayers in those Churches , are utterly unlawfull too ; I prove by Scripture thus .

1. FIrst , we find that Stephen in the latter end of his Sermon , and in the words foregoing his death , expresly declares against the vanity of all Temples , or Churches , call them what you please , Acts 7.48 , 49 , 50. and quotes the Prophet for it . Howbeit the Most High dwelleth not in Temples made with hands , as saith the Prophet , Heaven is my Throne , and earth is my footstool , what house will ye build me , saith the Lord ? or what is the place of my rest ? hath not my hands made all these things , &c. From hence it is plain , that God delights not in any of your Steeple-houses .

Again , we find Paul as plainly declaiming against the Idolatry of all Steeple-houses , assuring the Athenians , Acts 17.24 , 25. that God that made the world and all things therein , seeing that he is Lord of Heaven and earth , dwelleth not in Temples made with hands , neither is he worshipt with mens hands , &c. Thus you see how in the begining of Christianity , there were not onely no steeple-houses , but by Scripture expresly forbiden that there should be any .

3. The Apostle Paul bids us again , 1 Tim. 2. to pray always in all places , holding up pure hands , what need have we more of Churches and steeolehouses to pray in , than in any other roomes ?

4 Nay finde we not our Saviour Jesus Christ himself prophesying the destruction of that Idoll of the Jews their Temple to say , Matt 24.2 . Verely Verely I say unto you there shall not be left heer one stone upon another that shall not be throwne down , You may see then what pleasure he tooke in that place , which was the gloriousest of the whole world , what then will become of your pittifull Temples and steeple-houses ?

5 Our Saviour yet more plainly shews his distast of that kinde of worship , when he tells the woman of Samaria in S. Johns Gospell . John . 4.21.23 . Women believe me , The hour cometh , when ye shall neither in this mountain nor yet at Hierusalem worship the Father &c. But the hour cometh , and now is when the true worshipers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth , for the Father seeketh such to worship him . Heer it is plain that he will not have his worship confined to places , no not to his holy Temple .

6 Then does not the Prophet Jeremy heat down the fond confidence that the Jews had in their Temple , when he bids them not to trust in lying words , saying , Jer. 4.7 . The Temple of the Lord , the Temple of the Lord , the Temple of the Lord ; it is plain he says , that to call that the Temple of the Lord , was to give lying words .

7 Is not God in every place , and can there be any one place shewed , where he is properly present , but he is always ready to hear sinners every where , as is frequently sayd in Scripture , what need have we then of your Churches , or steple houses ? Nay did not Jesus Christ live a poor life upon earth , and counsell poverty to all the followers of him , what need have we then of all those splendid sumptuous buildings , and statly ornaments and rich revenues of your Churches ; which are but golden snares , for to entrap Christian souls , and our Saviour himself declared as aforesaid how much he abhorred , and did afterwards destroy the riches of Solomons Temple , and a heathen Poet himself could say , at vos dicite Pontifices , in sacro quid facit aurum nempe quod & veneri donatae a virginie puppe . Yet you will persist in that foolish idolatry .

8 Then that your Churches , nor your Churhmen are to be priviledged , or exempted from the jurisdiction of the secular power more than others , I prove by the express precept and president of our Saviour , who not onely suffered himself to be judged by Pontius Pilat a meer lay man , John 19.11 . and a heathen , but aproved his power , granting expressly to him , that his power was given him from above , what reason then have any of your Churchmen to refugiate themselves under any pretended priviledge , or be exempted from the secular power more than we ?

9 Nay that all faithfull Christians are Priests , and the Lords Anointed , and that by Baptisme it self , 1. Pet. 2.5 9. is plain by many express Scriptures . And therefore Peter twice in one chapter inculcates it thus . first , ye allso as lively stones are built up a spirituall house , an holy preisthood to offer up Spirituall Sacrifice , acceptable to God by Jesus Christ , and again , but ye are a chosen generation , a Royall Preisthood an holy nation , a peculiar people , that ye should shew forth the praises of him , who hath called you out of darkness into his marvelous light ? By which it is plain that all good Christians are as much priests as any of your black coats what soever , and this is likewise affirmed by John , who tells us that he loved us and washed us from our sins in his blood , and made us a Kingdome , and priests to God his Father . 1. Cor. 12.13 .

10 Then the Apostle Paul tells us , that by one Spirit we are all baptised into one body , whether we be Jews or Gentiles , whether we be bond or free , and have been all made to drink into one spirit , it must follow therefore , Rem . 12 that we are equally Preists with any of you . Nay does not the same Apostle tell us yet more plainly , that we may do the office of Priests ? which is to offer Sacrifice , when he chargeth us : to present our bodys a living Sacrifice , holy acceptable unto God , which is our resonable service , and cannot we do that as well as you ?

11. Last of all for your Canonicall hours and formall prayers in your Churches , and by your pretended preists , I can for my part finde as little aggreeable to Scripture , for first our Saviour to discountenance that kinde of devotion , Matt. 7. tells us plainly , that not every one that says unto him Lord , Lord , shall enter into the Kingdome of heaven . Then if that kinde of praying were of any use or force with God at all , then the Lord would be in a manner necessitated and constrained to his actions , by those prayers , but that we know he cannot be ? Over and above , if such praying were prevalent with God , what need will there be of living in obedience to his Law , or of any good works at all ?

12. Again our saviour Christ tells us , that our Father in heaven knowes what is needfull for us : Matt - 6. before we aske him , to what purpose therefore should we pray at all to him ? onely do his will and leave the rest to his own goodness . For so the Prophet Malachy assures us likewise , Malac. 3.13 . that they are his own words , I am God and am not to be changed ? You gain nothing therefore upon his decrees , by your prayers ?

13. Then that our Saviour Christ was clearly against that kind of praying , appears by those words , Matt. 6. but when ye pray , use not vain repetitions , as the Heathens do , for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking .

Methinks you should therefore be ashamed of your many repetitions , and prayers , at your Canonical hours forsooth , when you know that there is no such thing as Canonical hours commanded , and besides that nothing should be read or said in any congregation , but what is for the edification of Christians souls .

That it is not lawfull to make war with Turks , Jewes , Heathens or Heritcks , or to persecute them for any cause of conscience ; nay , that Christians cannot justify to make war at all , or to bear any civil Magistracy whatsoever , or give or take any oaths , I prove by express Scripture thus .

1. First it is plain that to wage war against Turks , Jews , Heathen , or Hereticks , is to resist the will of God , and his holy Sprit visiting our sins upon us , and punishing us by their hands , and our duty is to fight with prayers and tears , not with the the sword : As the Apostles did .

2. Then we finde our Saviour Expresly forbid , all kinde of resistance , and returns of injury for injury , when he says in Matthews gospel . Matt. 4.39 . But I say unto you that ye resist not evil , but whosoever shall smite thee on the right cheek , turn to him the other also .

3. Nay more expresly yet , we have it in the same Gospell , Mat. 26.52 . Then sayd Jesus unto him put up again thy sword into his place , for all they that take the sword shall perish by the sword and that this was so understood by the Apostles & primitive Christians , is plainly held forth by John in his Apockalyps where it is said , Rev. 13.10 he that leadeth into captivity , shall go into captivity , he that killeth with the sword , must be killed with the sword , heer is the patience and the faith of the saints so that all war must be simply and of it self unlawful ?

4. Then we find that persecution for cause of conscience , is utterly unlawfull , for the Apostles and primitive Christians did never seek to princes , to give them any force to defend them against any ●ersecutors whatsoever , nor do we find the Gospell , or Apostles teach us any thing but submission to our Sufferings , and that all the enemies of Christ are to be over come onely with the sword of the spirit , which is the word of God .

5. The Lord in Matthews Gospell commands again expresly , that the Tares which the enemy sowed should not be pulled up , Matt. 13.30 . but that both be let to grow together till the Harvest , that is the end of the world and then he will say to the Repers , gather ye together first the tares , and binde them in bundells to burn them , but gather the wheat into my barne . 1. Cor. 11.19 . So that Hereticks as well as Turks , Jews and Infidels , must be let alone to grow till the end of the world ; and Paul plainly asserts the necessity of that too , when he says , for there must be allso Heresies amongst you that they which are approved may be made manifest amongst you

6. Then that no civil magistracy is to be born amongst Christians , Luke . 22.25 . is plain out of Lukes Gospell , when the Lord said unto them , the Kings of the earth exercise Lordship over them &c. but ye shall not be so . And this it plainly again confirmed by Paul to the Ephesians , Ephes. 4.5 . where he tells us that there is but one Lord , one Faith , and one Baptisme , if therefore there is to be but one Lord , who ? who shall dare to make more ? so that Kings , Princes and Magistrates , are all unlawfull things .

7. Last of all , that it is absolutely unlawfull for Christians to give or take Oaths , is most evident out of our Saviours own words , recited at large in Matthews Gospell thus , Matt. 5.33 , 34 , 35 , 36 , 37. Ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time , thou shalt not forswear thy self , but shalt perform unto the Lord thy Oaths . But I say unto you , swear not at all , neither by Heaven , for it Gods Throne , nor by the earth , for it is his footstool , neither by Jerusalem , for it is the City of the great King , neither shalt thou swear by thy head , because thou canst not make one hair white or black , but let your communication be ye , ye , nay , nay , for whatsoever is more than these , cometh of evil . And is not all this as plainly repeated , Jam. 5.12 . and confirmed by James in his Epistle General ? where he sayes , But above all things , my Brethren , swear not , neither by Heaven , neither by the earth , neither by any other Oath , but let your yea be yea , and your nay , nay , least you fall into condemnation : can any thing be made more plain by more expresse Scripture , than that all manner of swearing is utterly unlawfull ? Let them look to it therefore that make it their common practise to swear vainly , and they too , that under pretence of Law , dare to administer , or receive any Oath , how judicial soever : for it is a thing injurious to God , and Tyrannical over humane souls .

That to Baptise Infants , is an injury to the Lord , and a most high abuse of Christian Souls , and that the doctrine of a Character imprest in the Soul by Baptisme , is a mear Popish cheat and collusion , I prove by Scripture thus .

First , It is plain that our Saviour in the Gospell bids his Disciples Goe and teach all Nations , Mat. 28.19 , 20. Baptising them in the name of the Father , and of the Son , and of the Holy Ghost , teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you . So Matthew renders his words , Mar. 16.15 , 16. and Mark not much different , Goe ye into all the world , and preach the Gospell to every creature , he that believeth and is baptised shall be saved , but he that believeth not shall be damned : by both which Gospells it is evident that they who would be baptised , ought first to be taught , and to believe , but Infants for their want of age , are neither capable of learning , not of faith , therefore they are not capable of Baptisme .

2. We find it as plain likewise in the practise of the Apostles : first we see that Philip preached the Gospell a long while to the Ethiopian Eunuch bofore he was baptised , Acts 8.35 , 36 , 37. and when he was sufficiently instructed he said , here is water what does hinder me to be baptised , and Philip said , if thou believest with all thy heart , thou mayest , and he answered and said , I believe that Jesns Christ is the Son of God , and so he was baptised : thus you see how his express belief , was to goe before his baptisme : and so you may see how the Gospoll was preached to Cornelius by Peter , Acts 10. before he would baptise him , all which sufficiently argues the madnesse of your Pedo-baptisme , wherein their is an utter incapacity of hearing , learning , or believing .

3. Over and above these express Scriptures , I 'le give you one argument or two out of reason . First , you will grant that Reprobates are not to be baptised , but many Infants are Reprobates , therefore they are not to be baptised .

4. Then why did the Ancient Primitive Christians administer Baptisme but at certain times , and that but thrice a year , if that Children were to be baptised so soon as they were born ?

5. Lastly , The Scripture speaks not one word of baptising of Children , but one pittifull Pope Nicholas , as we find in History , begun that childish Baptisme , and you have been all dotards , twice Children , and Pope-ridden ever since .

6. As for the Character that you pretend to in Baptisme , it is altogether as sottish and vain a thing . A Character is a meer Popish fiction likewise , of which there is no mention at all made in Scripture , how can we then imagine it to be any thing more than a meer figment ? especially since , if it could be true , it would would prove to be of such importance .

7. Then to conclude , I pray you consider a little impartially with your self , what a horrid rediculous doctrine it is , that water should be capable to impresse such a seal upon a soul , as to stamp an indeleble character , upon an immaterial thing , Spectatum admissi risum tene atis Amici .

To what you object against our building , or using of of Churches , which you call Steoplehouses , in the service of God ; adorning or giving lands and possessions to them , with priviledges extraordinary , as also to our Church-men , and against their Priesthood , Canonical hours , and prayers , we answer thus .
To the first .

We grant what you urge from S. Stephen , out of the Acts to be great truth , that the most high dweleth not in Temples made with hands &c. so as to be circumscribed by his essence , that is a meer pagan opinion , which it may be some foolish heathens , held of their Gods , for the wiser of them too , did not think it , but we are sure no Christian can , or ever could imagin it ; but that he dwels not in his own houses dedicated to his service , by his more abundant grace is as sottish again to deny , and such a presence of God in his Church , we do onely beleive and maintain . This answer to your Argument we do assure you , we have learnt from the wise King Solomon , 2 Chron. 6.18 , 19 , &c. when he was dedicating his Temple , when he sayd . But will God in very deed dwell with men on the earth ? behold Heaven , and the Heaven of Heavens cannot contain thee how much less the house that I have built ? Then follows the end and scope he had in the Building of that house , set out at large by him , but that his divine Majesty should please to have respect Unto the prayers of his Servants , &c.

To the second .

We answer in like manner , for both those texts are to the same tune perfectly , onely you are pleased to name this last pittifully , for had you produced the whole out , the latter end of the Text would have answered the begining : for we graunt as aforesayd , that the Lord of heaven and earth dwelleth not in Temples made with hands , neither is worshiped with mens hands , as though he needed any thing ; that you are , pleased I say , to leave out and we deny as well as you that God is so to be worshipt in our Churches , as if he stood in need of any help of ours .

To the Third .

What you urge again out of S. Paul , we grant , that we are to pray in all places , that is to be understood sure of all places of convenience , and what place can be more convenient than that which is dedicated , consecrated , and devoted to that , onely use . Besides , S. Paul said that onely to refute a vulgar errour , which was , that it was not lawfull to pray any where but in the Church .

To the Fourth .

We do not deny but the Temple of the Jews was so destroyed as our Saviour prophesied , and that so it ought to be , but that signifies nothing to our Churches ; for as the Evangelical Law , succeeded the Jewish Law , so the Evangelical Priesthood succeeded the Jewish Priesthood , and our Churches , their Temple , and our unbloody Sacrifice , their bloody ones .

To the fifth .

We freely grant all that our Saviour sayes , as you urge , and that the true worshippers of him , shall do it in spirit and in truth , and we pray you , what hinders , but that we may do that in our Churches , and what is in the text more reougnant to our Churches , than to your woods , caves , and nasty conventicles ?

To the Sixth .

The Prophet Jeremy whom you urge , does , most , expresly testifie there that , the Temple was his most choice and beloved place , and addes those words , and I will dwell with you in that place . Notwithstanding he tells them in the Text you quote , that they are not to trust in that , for the sanctity of the Temple should not be a priviledge to them , if they took wicked courses : This is all the scope of the Text and the context .

To the Seventh .

We grant it to be true , that God is in every place and hears sinners every where , does it therefore follow that we must have no Churches ? This was Jaroboaws argument sure to the Israelites to keep them from their going up to the Temple at Jerusalem , when he told them how impertinent a piece of worship it was to take so long a journey , to so little purpose . You Anahaptists therefore may be very properly in this point called Jerohoites , going about to disswade Christians from the use of Churches , as he did there the Israelites from their Temple ; but because we perceive you are a Latinist we shall refet you to a learned Jew , to teach you a more Christian religion , Joseph . lib. 8. c. 12. and that is Josephus , who will tell you , Deus est ubique sed in uno loco vult orari , & honorari plusquam in alio . God is every where , but in one place he wil be prayed to and honored more than another , and what you seem to fling against tho riches & ornaments of our Churches is nothing to the purpose , supposing that we must have Churches at all , consecrated to divine use , sure common reason tells us , that they are not then to be like Burnes , nor our Priests to go like Beggars who serve in them : what you produce out of Persius , is little to the purpose , and you shew your self to be a true imitater of your grand Patriarch Martin Luther , who when he went about to prove that all things in this world came by a fatal , absolute , and inevitable necessity , produceth a Heathen Poet for his Authority , certa stant emnia lege , so when we bring clear Scriptures , and you are pleased to produce Ethnick Poets , we conceive our selves not bound to answer to their authority , how valid soever you take it to be , for we know they knew not God , therefore they are not to be received by us , as any authority . But of this we shall tell you more hereafter .

To the Eight .

I say you have done very bravely , to make all Christian Princes and Magistrates , to be Pilates and Herodes , and whereas you say that Christ asserted Pilates power , the contrary is plain out of the Text , for our Saviour there clearly taxeth him of sin , when he sayes , that he that betrayed him into his hands , had the greater sin : Now that Pilate had a power given him from above , our Saviour sayes it , but in reference to God , that is permissively onely , that God did permit to him onely that power ; for we know , it was his own will to offer himself , if the Text be understood , as in reference to Cesar , and the supream civil power , you then gain nothing by your argument .

To the Ninth .

We will grant you that all saithfull Christians are Priests , as they are also Kings , that is to be understood spiritually , because God reigneth in them by his free grace , and they by the unction of his holy spirit , do play the Kings over , and govern the powers and faculties of their souls and senses , hut yet besides those Kings , which may be beggars , there are , and were alwaies Kings and external external Governours . In like manner all the faithfull , who offer to God their faith and faithfull prayers , &c. may be said to be spiritual Priests , and that Priesthood needs no ceremonies : but it is plain , that besides this internall Priesthood , there is and must be an external one in the Church ; Take for example , every faithfull Christian is the Temple of God , for so S. Paul sayes to the Corinthians ; ye are the holy Temple of God , but yet besides those Temples there must be external Temples , affixt to certain places , in which do meet the Congregations of the faithfull . Then as to the words of the Text you quote , you may as well infer out of another , that all the Jewes were Priests too ; Enod . 19.5 , 6. for we find in Exodus , how God tells them , Now therefore , if ye will obey my vaine indeed , and keep my Covenant ; then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all peoples , and ye shall be unto me a Kingdome of Priests , and a holy Nation , &c. This was said to all Israel , and yet you will not deny but there were particular Kings , and Priests besides In fine you know well enough the difference between a Priest of your making , and a Priest of Gods making , a Lay-Priest , and a Hierarchical one , but you are willing to let your selves be cheated by that sophisme of equivocation , that you may do again as Jeroboam did , set up your Lay-Priests to hinder people from going to Rome , as he did to hinder the Israelites from going to Jerusalem . So here again you are Jeroboites .

To the Tenth .

We say that you torment and turn that Text of the Apostle to the Corinthians to a most heretical sense , for though we are all one body in Christ , yet sure it is a most sottish inference to say that therefore we are all the hand , or that we are all the foot , when we know that there is and must be a difference , between the members themselves , wherefore the unity of the body , may consist with the difference of members . Then as to that other Text out of the Romanes , we do acknowledge that all Christians , though meerly Lay-mem may offer spiritual oblations , and so may be mistical Priests , erecting in their hearts an Altar of their affections to God , but it does not at follow from thence , that therefore there are not , nor ought to be external , and Hierarchical Priests .

To the Eleventh .

We say that our Saviour in that Gospel you urge , finds not fault with praying , but praying as the Hepocrites doe , who with his words prayes to God , not with his deeds , which kind of praying shuts the gates of the Kingdome of Heaven against them . Then as to a necessity which you say our prayers must impose upon God , we do absolutely deny any such thing , but yet we know that God is pleased to express himself , as if he were necessitated by the importunity of faithfull prayers , as he said to Moses , let me alone that my fury may wax hot , as if he were hindred from his purpose , by Moses his prayers he requests him to let him aloue .

And as to your inference , that if prayrs be prevalent with God , than good works an necessary we do absolutely deny it , for we are to do the one , and not toleave the other undone , for by fasting , and alms giving , &c. Prayers are carried up to Heaven , as with Angels wings .

To the twelfth ,

To what you urge out of S. Mathew , and the Prophet Malachy , we acknowled that God foreknowes our wants before we aske him , but yet we confess his power , in praying to him and beseech him as he is all powerfull to help us , we ask therfore onely that which God has ordered us to ask for , and has promised to give to our prayers , and God will be askt , before he gives , least we should do that , which most in the world do , vilify his profered graces . Neither is God to be thought to be changed by our prayers , that is in his essence , but the effects of things are many times changed by holy prayers , as that before by Moses . You mistake therefore if you think , that our prayers are ordained to change the divine disposition , but that we may obtein by our prayers , what his divine goodness had disposed for us , before the world was .

To the thirteenth and last .

We say that our Saviour forbids not much speaking in prayers simply , but as the heathen doe , vain repetitions , and babling in prayers is forbiden , not prolixity & to continue long in prayer , it is the superfluity of words that is offensive to God , therefore the old Fathers prayers were very short , Luke . 22.1 . Sam. 1. but frequent . Christ himself prayed long , and Amn prayed long , and multiplied prayers , Luke . 2.6 Nay our Saviour was a whole night in prayer , as the Scriptures testify . Then that Canonicall hours are not commanded in holy writ I grant , but they are sufficiently insinuated , and the Church has allways learnt them from its holy Masters , the Apostles , and we ought to obey those that are set over us in the Lord , Then last of all , Heb. 11. what can be more edifying to Christians , than those collects of holy prayers and homilies made by the holy Fathers of the Church : the legands of the Saints , and agonies of those invincible martyrs who have seald our Chrsstion faith with their blood , if they be well and faythfully writen ? So now give us leave to reply a little upon you .

That it is lawfull to build , use , and adorn Churches , and to give lands and possessions to them , and to the persons that Officiate in them , and that we are not all equally Priests , and that our Canonicall hours and prayersure lawfull , we prove by Scripture thus .

First we finde in Exodus that Jacob sayd surely the Lord was in this place , Exod. 28 16 , 17. and I knew it not and again how dreadfull is this place , this is no other but the houset of God , and the gate of heaven . Agayn in Deuteronomy we finde thus , Deut. 46.2 . Thou shalt therefore Sacrifice the passover , unto the Lord thy God , of thy flock and of thy heards in the place which the Lord thy God shall chuse to place his name there . Therefore God appoints some places for his worship , and delights in them , more then in others .

We finde in the Chronicles that it was not permitted to David because he was a man of blood , 1 Chron. 17. and had made many wars , to build a house to the name of God . Heer it is to be observed that the Lord had a great care of the Reverence due to his house , when he would not suffer it to be built by a warriour or a man of blood , ibid but by a king of peace , as Solomon was . Then in the same chapter ; and els where God expresseth himself to have walkt about in Tents , 2 Kin. 7. and Tabernacle , from place to place , observe , he that was every where , says , he was in the Tabernacle . 1 Kings . 6 , 7 , 8. &c.

How often does the Almighty call Solomons Temple his house to dwell in ? what infinite care and vast expence was in the building , and not so much as the noise of a hammer to be heard about it all the while it was building , and you will pull down Temples , with noise of Drumes and Trumpets . 1. Chron. 17.

Then , that God is more propitiated , and hears our prayers sooner in a place hollowed to his name than in an other place , is as plain for it is sayd : That King David came and stood before the Lord , that is the Arke : by which it is plain , that God is more present in one place than in another . Daniel when he could not pray in the Temple , Dan. 6. being a captive in Babylon yet prayed thrice a day with his face towards the Temple in Jerusalem ; Then the Prophet Isay tells us , that God sayes , Isay 36. my house shall be called by all people , the house of prayer , which our Saviour himself repeats & confirms , and adds upon the Jews , but ye have made it a denne of Thieves , Mat. 21. so many of your faction have made our Churches lately , worse than dennes of Thieves .

It is said in the Acts , Acts 3. how Peter and John went up into the Temple to pray , at the ninth hour of prayer , observe how the Apostles would pray in the old Temple , when there was no Christian Church built . 1 Cor. 11. St. Paul rebukes the Corinthians for prophaning of their Churches with eating and drinking , and may not we say to you , as the Apostles does to them , despise you not the Church of God , ibid. does not the same St. Paul require that women should hold their peaces in the Church out of reverence , 1 Cor. 14.25 . and that an unlearned man coming into the Church should falldown upon his face , should worship God , &c. Now that the building of Churches is acceptable to God , is evident because it was practised in the Apostles time , Luke 7. and the Jews knew that it was acceptable to our Saviour , when they told him of the Centurion , that he loved their Nation and built them a Synagogue . Exod. 23.26.29.30.31.35 . &c. Then how acceptable to God the adorning of Churches must be , I pray you look upon the sumptuous offerings that were made by the people in the old law towards the building of their Tabernacle , and the making of costly ornaments for their Priests , and so for their Temple afterwards , and I presume you will be satisfyed . Nay not withstanding the Temple was so richly provided for by Solomon , Num 27.28 , 29. Nehe 10.32 . and in every thing most abounding yet Nehemiah tells us , that the Jews made ordinances to oblige , and charge themselves yeerly , with the third part of a sheckel for the service of the house of their God , besides their free-will offerings which were unvalvable . And our Saviour discommends not the rich Temple then in his days , Luke 21. for takeing the poor widdows mite , Jos. 21. towards its encreas and ornament . As for the possessions of the Priests there was as great a care taken by God , Num. 25 as first we finde that Joshuah divided citys amongst the Priests and levites as the Lord commanded by Moses . And again we finde that the Prists and Levits , had the tithes The first borne the first fruites , Lev. 27. and great parts of the offerings and sacrifices , for their attendance on the Tabernacle , Num. 18. where they served day ly ; and all this was by the express precept and ordinance of God , 2 Kings 12.4 , 5. Then in the Kings we finde , that Joash sayd to the Priests , all the mony of the didicated things that is brought into the house of the Lord , even the mony of every one that passeth the account is the mony that every one set at : & all the mony that cometh into any mans heart to bring into the house of the Lord , let the Priests take to them &c : 2 Chron. 31.4 , 5.6 , 7 , 8 , 9 , &c. So Hezekiah commanded the people that dwelt in Jerusalem to give proportionably to the Priests and Levites , that they might be encouraged in the law of the Lord , and we find in the Text , that they of Judah and Jerusalem did bring in so abundantly , that new chambers and granaries were erected to receive their offerings . Luke 8.2.3 . Jesus Christ himself we know carried always a treasurer or purse-bearer with him , that was Judas who was to receive and dispose of what was sent to him . And we finde that divers did minister unto him of their substance , as Joan the wife of Chusa Herods Steward , and divers others . S. Paul is so express in this point , that I wonder you , or any man can doubt not onely that it is a good devotion , but a necessary duty , to contribute towards their Priests . For he saith , Who goeth to warfare any time at his own charges . 1 Cor 9.7 , 8 , 9 , 10 , 11 , 12 , 13 , 14. Who planteth a vineyard and eateth not of the fruit thereof . Or who feedeth a flock , and eateth not of the milke , of the flock ? say I these things as a man , or saith not the Law the same also . For it is writen in the law of Moses , thou shalt not muzlle the mouth of the Ox that treadeth our the corne , doth God take care for Oxen ? Or saith be altogether for our sakes , for our sakes no doubt this is written , that he that ploweth should plough in hope , and he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope . If we have sowen unto you spirituall things , is it a great thing if we shall reape your carnall things . Do you not know that they which minister about holy things , live of the things of the Temple , and they which waite at the alter , are partakers with the alter ? Even so hath the Lord ordained , that they which preach the Gospell , 1 Tim 2. should live of the Gospell &c. Then the same Apostletells , Timothy that a Bishop must be blamless , the husband of one wife , vigialent , sober of good behaviour , given to hospitallity , apt to teach &c. Now I would fain know how a Bishop can be hospitable , Acts. 4 : 24.25 . if he have not wherewithall . Then in the Acts , we finde , how so many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them , and brought the prices of the things that were sould , and layd them down at the Apostles feet &c. By what is it most plain , that in the primitive Church , there were collections for the sustertation of the clergy in a plentyfull manner , which fayling , then benefices succeded in their roomes . And to conclude all that we mean to say in this point , Luke . 10. our Saviour tells you , that the labourer is worthy of his hyre . Mat. 27.25 ; 26.

As to immunities due to their persons , we shall adde onely one word or two ; our Saviour askes Peter , of whom do the Kings of the earth take tribute , of their own Children or of strangers , Peter sayth unto him of straingers , Psal. 104 Jesus sayth unto him , then are the Children free . The Psalmist in the person of God comands thus , not to touch his anointed nor do his Prophets any harm . And again the same Kinge David says in another place , Who can stretch forth his hand against the Lords anointed and be guiltless ? 1 Sam. 26.1 . This was spoken truly of the unction of a King , but the same must follow upon the unction of a Priest . Mat. 19. Mar. 9. Mat. 21. Now that we are not all Priests equally is sufficiently proved in our paper concerning the Sacrament of holy orders , so shall not he make repetition . Then for our Canonicall hours and prayers we are justified by Scriptures , Luke . 11. Matt. 6. Mat. 14. Mark . 6. Luk 5.16 Luke 9. Luke 22. Mat. 26. Mar. 14. Mat. 24. Mar. 13. Matt. 5. Luke . 18. Mat. 26. innumerable . First the Disciples sayd to Christ , Lord teach us to pray , and he sayd , when ye pray say our Father &c. and then sending away the multitude he went into a mountain alone for to pray ; again , he withdrew himself into the wilderness and prayed ; again , he went into a mountain to pray and he was all night in prayer to God , again he went up into a mountain to pray , and whilst he prayed his countenance was changed . Then again kneeling down he prayed saying , Father if it be thy will let this cup pass from me , and being in his agony he prayed long , So much for our Saviours practise , as for his precept , observe first , Pray that your flight be not in the winter , nor on the sabbath day ; again , watch and pray , for ye know not when the time will come , again , pray for those that persecute you &c. again pray always , and faint not ; again , pray that ye enter not into temptation , then this sort of devills , is not to be cast out but with prayer and fasting and whatsoever thou shall aske in prayer beleiving ye shall receive . As for the Apostolical practice of this holy duty of prayer , every leafe is full of it , as first in the Acts , Acts 1.14 . These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication with the women and Mary the Mother of Jesus and with his brethren , Cap. 24. and again in the same chapter as they prayed , and sayd , thou Lord which knowest the hearts of al ! men &c. Acts 4.31 .

Again , and when they had prayed the place was shaken where they assembled were together and they were all filled with the holy Ghost and they spake the word of God with boldness ; and again , Acts 10.31 . Thy prayer is heard , and thine alms are had in rememberance in the sight of God . Acts 12.5 . Cap. 12.

Peter was kept in prison but prayer was wade without ceasing of the Church unto God for him and then when he was delivered he came to the house of Mary the mother of Iohn whose Sir name was Mark where many were gathered together praying . Acts. 13.3 . Acts 14.23 . So again in the next chapter , and when they had fasted and prayed and laid their hands on them , they they sent them away , and again in the next chapter , and when they had ordained them elders in every Church and had prayed with fasting , they commended them to the Lord ; on whom they believed . What therefore the Apostles so earnestly desired to know how to do , Christ himself so expresly taught and commanded , and perfectly practised in his own person to give us an example , his Disciples and all the primitive Christians so faithfully followed , shall we leave undone now , to satisfy your fanaticall humors , will you see yet how the Apostles injoyn that duty , Now I beseech you brethren for the Lord Iesus Christs sake , Rom. 15 30. and for the love of the Spirit , that ye strive together with me , in your prayers to God for me . 2 Cor. 1.10.11 . And again to the Corinthians , in whom we trust that he will yet deliver us , you also helping together by praying for us &c. again to the Philipians be careful for nothing , Phil. 4.6 . but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving , let your request be made known unto God . 1 Thes. 1.2 . So to the Thessalonians , we give thanks to God always for you all , makeing mention always of you in our prayers remembring without ceasing &c. Clos . 4.2 . So again to the Colossians , continue in prayer , and watch in the same with thanksgiving withall praying also for us that God would open to us a dore of utterance , to speake the mystery of Christ &c. So again to the Thessalonians pray for us that the word of the Lord may have free course , and be glorified &c. 1 Thes. ● . 1 . 2 Cor. 1● 1 Tim. 2.12 . So again to the , Corinthians , we pray God that ye do no ill ; but most expresly to Timothy , he says , I exhort therefore that first of all supplications , prayers , intercessions , and giving of thanks , be made for all men , for king and all that are in Authority , that we may lead a quiet and a peaceable life in all godliness and honesty then adds a little after , I will therefore that men pray every where , lifting up holy hands without wrath and doubting . Acts 6 . 4● Nay that this duty of prayer is the first and grand concernment of a Christian , see what is said in the persons of all the Apostles , but we will give our selves continually unto prayer , and to the ministry of the word , it is very observable how all the Apostles preferred the duty of prayer before preaching it self . I have pickt out these few texts , out of a thousand that might be produced , for as we said before , every leaf both in old and new Testament , is full heither of the precept or practice of this holy duty . And as for the set hours of praying , they are altogether as plainly prescribed to us in Scripture . Psalm . 118. Dan. 6.10 .

The Prophet David tells us , that he did it seven times a day , and Daniel we finde did it three times a day , he went into his house , and his windowes being open in his chamber , towards Ierusalem , he kneeled upon his knees three times a day and prayed and gave thanks before his God , as he did afore time . Acts 3 . 1● It is as cleer likewise that it was the Apostles practice , Now Peter and Iohn we ●t up together into the Temple at the hour of prayer being the ninth hour ; Act. 10.9 and again , Peter went up upon the house to pray about the sixt hour . So of this we conceive enough said , and from your godly Church-work , we will passe to your goodly State work .

To what you alledge against the lawfulness of making war against Turks , Jews , or Heriticks , or persecution of any for conscience , and against making of war at all , or bearing of Civil Magistracy as Government , or giving or taking of Oaths ; we answer thus .
To the First .

We say , that though God doth visit our sins upon us by the Turks , Jews , Heriticks , &c. yet we are not forbidden to make our own defences . Otherwise when he doth visit us by famine , pestilence , fire , or any other way , it would be unlawful to make any provision for our selves , as to lay in any store against famine , any medicine against diseases , or to fly from the plague . But we know that God so visits us , as not to forsake us , Psal. 88. for so the Psalmist tells us , I will visit their iniquitie with rods , and their sins with scourges , but I will not take my mercy quite away , &c. And as to our fighting with prayers , we do confess it the duty of every good souldier to pray frequently , yet to take his Arms in hand likewise , with Joshua , Gedion , David , and the Maccabees , for we find that Moses prayed , but Joshuah fought against Amalech ; Exo. 17. so let those that cannot sight pray , and those that fight pray too , so they may obtain doubtless the easier victory .

To the Second .

We grant that our Saviour commands us not to resist evil , but that command sure is not absolute , that we should never resist evil , but so often as we are struck on one side to offer the other also , for then neither Christ nor his Apostles had been so perfect : for Christ , when he was struck on one side before the Chief Priest , did not turn t'other , but rather resisted by a rebuke , If I have spoken well , Joh. 18.23 . Acts 23.3 . why strikest thou me ? if evil bear witness of the evil ? So S. Paul likewise , when by the command of the Chief Priest he was struck , replyed , the Lord will smite thee , thou whited wall . So then those words of our Saviour must be understood , that we resist not evil , that is , that we seek not our own private revenge , but should be rather ready to offer up the other cheek , that is ; to receive another injury , rather than to revenge any . Nor can it any way follow from hence , that war is unlawfull , for the invader , as well as the defender , ought not to make war out of any private affection , to revenge , but out of a right intention for the publick good , otherwise war must be unlawfull indeed .

To the Third .

We find two parts of your argument to be answered to , the first is , Christs command to Peter , Put up thy Sword again into his place , then give us leave to tell you , that Christ speaks not of war at all , but meekly reprehends Peter for these reasons : first , because all the Apostles had askt leave to strike and healone without staying for Christs answer , drew his Sward , and wounded a servant of the High Priests . Secondly , because it was a rash and indiscrect thing , that one man should assault such a multitude of armed men . Thirdly because if it had been necessary , our Saviour could have commanded Angels to have so defended him , as he tells him , I can ask the Father , and he will send me more then twelve legions of Angels , &c. Fourthly , because he would not have his death hindred , as he said , The Cup which the Father hath given me wilt thou not that I drink ? All this hinders not , but that war may notwithstanding be lawfull , if the just conditions of war be observed . The second part of your argument consists in those words , both out of the Gospell and Apostle , he that killeth with the Sword , must perish or be killed with the Sword , which cannot be understood simply to be true , for we know the contrary , and that many bloody men die in their beds ; but both our Saviour and the Apostle , alledge an old Law out of the Text , whosoever shall shed mans blood , his blood shall be also shed , Gen. 9.6 . Leviticus 24.17 . and whosoever shall strike a man so as he dieth , let him die the death : Now that murtherers are to die by the law , hinders nothing but war may be lawfull : for otherwise it must have been unlawfull under the old Testament , for then the Law was made against Homicides . Now the difference between homecide , and a lawful war , if you know not , we will tell you , the one is committed against the publick laws of God and man , as well against common justice , as the Decalogue , it must be therefore unlawfull . The other is undertaken for the defence of publick justice , and to keep off , or repay a publick injury , and that sure by all laws of God and nature , must be lawfull .

To the Fourth .

I would fain know of you , what Prince or Emperour did then believe in Christ , whose aid the Apostles might have implored against Hereticks , it was not that the Hereticks then did not deserve it , but because the swords of the Princes and Emperours then were shut up in Pagan sheathes , but when they came to serve the Gospel under Constantine , then the Christians besought them upon all such occasions ; and to what you say , that Hereticks are to be conquered with the sword of the spirit , that is , 1 Pet. 3. the word of God , it is true that S. Peter teacheth us to be ready to give an account to every one that askes it , of the faith that is in us , and yet S. Paul adviseth us , Tit. 3.10 , 11. to reject a Heritick after the first and second admonition , and gives the reason , knowing that he is subverted , and sinneth , being condemned of himself . We beseech you therefore look to your self , and all your party , that you do not dispute out of Scriptures , against known faith .

To the Fifth .

It is plain , that our Saviour onely would not that one Tares should be pulled up , to endanger the Wheat , for so he explaines himself after , Mat. 18. least whilest ye pull up the Tares , ye pull up the Wheat also . We grant also , that heresies must be , but yet there is a woe pronounced to him , by whom they are , and that must too , implies no absolute necessity , but a conditional one , as they are foreknown to God , so must be : or else a necessity of the end , which the Apostle implies , that they who are approved may be made manifest : this proves nothing against the punishing of a notorious Heritick .

To the Sixth .

We answer , that when our Saviour said , but ye shall not be so , he did not forbid civil Magistracy , but only instructed his Apostles , that they being to be the future Pastors of souls should not meddle with secular businesses , nor dominear after the manner of secular Lords , but rather that they should attend their own charges , and become patterns of humility to all ; and so in like manner when the Apostle tells us , that there is but one Lord , one Faith , one Baptisme , he excludes not Kings and Princes , or other secular Lords , Rom. 13.6 . but only a plurality of Gods , for there is but one God , who is King of Kings , and Lord of Lords , whose Ministers all other Kings and Lords are .

To the Seventh .

We say that in those Texts you urge , the use of swearing is not forbidden , but the abuse of it : and that consists plainly in swearing vainly , and in business of no moment , and in calling God to witness , a thing without evident necessity , which is against the reverence that is due to God , this abuse only Christ forbids in these words , but I say unto you , swear not at all , that is , Exod. 20.7 . Deut. 10. without necessity ye shall not swear at all , and this is explained in other Texts . Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain ; & again , thou shalt not mention the name of God lightly , or to no purpose , now by these two words in vain , and lightly , or to no purpose , it is plain , that it is only forbid so to do rashly , vainly , or without necessity . Now give us leave to reply .

That it is lawfull to make war against Turks , Jews , or Heriticks , upon a reasonable and lawfull occasion , or to punish them , and that Christians may make war , and bear Civil Magistracy , yea , give and take Oaths , We prove by Scripture thus .

First , As to the matter of war , it is plain , that when the Souldiers came to St. John Baptist , and asked him what they should do , Luke 3.14 . he answered them , do violence to no man , neither accuse any falsly , and be content with your wages ; here it is plain , he forbid them not their trade , which was to go to war , but taught them how to do it honestly .

S. Paul tells the Romanes , Rom. 13. that Kings and Supream powers carry not the sword in vain .

The Children of Israel we know got the possession of the Land of Promise by an open war , of Gods own appointment , as is abundantly to be seen in the Books of Joshuah , Judges , and Kings . Nay the Lord commanded them to have a continual war against Infidells , for so we find in the Book of Judges . Now these Nations the Lord left , to prove Israel by them , even as many of Israel as had not known all the wars of Canaan , Judg. 3.1 , 2. only that the generation of the Children of Israel might know , to teach them war , at the least such as before knew nothing thereof . Observe , I pray you the great care the Almighty took , to teach the Children of Israel the art of war .

Observe again , the strict command that Samuel , by Gods command , giveth to Saul : Now go and smite Amaleek , 1 Sam. 15.3 . and utterly destroy all they have , and spare them not , but slay both man and woman , infant and suckling , ox and sheep , camel and ass . This was you 'l say a severe command and commission for war. Indeed the whole Old Testament is so full of instances , how the Jews by the command and assistance of God , did not onely resist Infidells , but invade them , as in Abraham , Mases , Joshuah , &c. that it would be vs endless as needless to make a recital of them : Jer. 48. Nay , we find high words in Prophet Jeremy , cursed be he that refrains his sword from blood ; and to sum up all this , that the trade of war is and must be lawfull , is plain , that God himself does own it , as to be the Patron and defender of it , and calls himself therefore the Lord of Hosts , and when the Pharisees askt our Saviour whether it was lawfull to pay tribute to Cesar , which was for to pay souldiers wages , he answered them , give to Cesar the things which are Cesars .

In the next place , we prove that it is lawfull to punish Hereticks , now the first punishment that is spoken of in Scripture , is excommunication , and that is plain out of St. Matthew , Mat. 18. If he bear not the Church , let him be unto thee as a Heathen . and a Publican , that is , let him be separated from the Church by excommunication ; so in the place before quoted out of S. Paul to Titus , Tit. 3. 2 Thess. 3 2 Joh. 2. so to the Thessalonians , so S. John , which for brevity sake I forbear to recite .

The next punishment to be inflicted upon Hereticks as enemies to God is death , and first it is plain out of the Old Testament , Deut. 13.5 . And that Prophet , or that dreamer of dreams , shall be put to death , because he hath spoken to turn you away from the Lord your God , &c. Then again in the next chapter it is said , That he that shall grow proud , Deut. 14. and refuse to obey the commands of the Priest , who at that time ministers to the Lord , he was to die the death by sentence of the Judge , that the evil might be taken from Isaael . The reason of this Law holds still , that the evil may be taken out of the Church . And again , in the same Book it is expresly said , that the Prophet who shall arrogantly dare to deliver in Gods name , Deut. 18. what he had not commanded him to say , or anything else in the name of any other Gods , Levit. 24. should be put to death .

Then Blasphemers were to be led out of the Tents , 1 Kings 18. and stoned to death , and why not Heritics ? so we find Elias the Prophet of the Lord , killed the Prophets of Baal .

Then as to the New Testament , we find our Saviour calls false Prophets or Heriticks Wolves in Sheeps cloathing , Matt. 7. but within were ravenous Wolves now such ought to be killed if the safety of the flock cannot otherwise consist . Acts 20. So S. Paul sayes , that he knew that ravenous Wolves would enter , not sparing the flock , such therefore ought to be put to death .

If Jesus Christ whipt the mony-changers out of the Temple , John 2. what should he do if he were in the earth , to the Heriticks that are in his Church ?

Ananias and Saphira , in the beginning of Christianity , Acts 5. for a little diffembling in matter of money , were put to death , how ought they to be used then that make it their business to cozen and cheat Christians of their souls , nay to defraud God of them .

Last of all St. Paul chargeth the Galatians , Galat. 4. 2 Cor. 10. and Corinthians too , to be in readiness to prosecute and punish all disobedience , and in another place speaks it out plainly , Galat. 5. I would they were even cut off that trouble you ; so enough we conceive said as to this .

Then that it is lawfull to beare civil magistracy , is first plain out of our Saviours words , Matt 22.21 . render to Cesar the things which are Cesars , and to God the things which are Gods , by those words he does suficiently justify all civil Authority . But S. Rom. 13.1.2.3.4 . &c. Paul in that whole chapter to the Romans most expresly asserts it , Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers , for there is no power but of God , the powers that be are ordained by God , whosoever therefore resisteth the power , resisteth the ordinance of God , and after that again he says , the Magistrate beareth not the sword in vain , for he is the minnister of God , a revenger unto wrath unto him that does evil &c. Again to Timothy he sayth , 1 Tim. 2.1 . I exhort therefore , that first of all supplications ; prayers , intercessions , and giving of thanks be made for all men : For Kings and all in Authority &c. Tit. 3.1 . 1 Pet. 2 27. Yet again to Titus he sayth , put them in minde ; to be subject to principalities and powers to obey rulers &c. and St. Peter commands us expresly to feare God and honer the Kings .

Now last of all that a lawfull oath may be lawfully taken and given , is plain by Apostolicall practice , for we finde that S. Paul did very frequently swear , which he should never have done , Rom. 1.19 . 2 Cor. 1.23 . Phil. 1.8 . 1 Tim. 5.21 . if swering had been absolutely forbiden 〈◊〉 our Saviour , as you pretend it was .

First to the Romans he says , God is my witness Then to the Corinthians he says I call God for a record upon my soul , Then to the Philipians again God is my witness , or God is my Record , how greatly I long after you all , in the bowells of Jesus Christ ; & then again to Timothy , I charge thee before God and the Lord Jesus Christ and all the elect Angels , &c. and to close up all this pittifull controversie , Heb. 6.26 . the same St. Paul affirms in his Epistle to the Hebrews , that every controversie ought to be ended by an Oath : and accordingly this practice has obtained all over Christendome , and ever since the beginning of Christianity , that in all judgements and Tribunals , when a man cannot clear his innocency by witnesse , he ought to attest it by his Oath , and then the controversie ceaseth . By all these Texts that we have produced out of Scripture , it is most plain to any reasonable man , that it is onely , as we said before in our answers to your arguments , that the abuse of Oathes is forbidden , not the use of them .

To what you aledge against the Baptisme of infants , and the character imprest upon the souls of Christians by Baptisme , we answer thus .
To the first .

It is plain that in both those gospels , both of St. Mathewe and St. Markt , our Saviuor onely speaks of those that are grown , and for that you urge , that to believe and be baptised is 〈◊〉 enough for our Saviour requires that the person before baptisme should be taught , & made to keep the commandments of God ; we answer again that Children are taught and believe , and keep the commandments of God , by others , that is their God Fathers and God Mothers , as they did contract the sin by others , which in baptisme is forgiven in the same manner ; the Church lends her motherly mouth , to promise for the teaching and nursing of these little ones , which cannot confess with their own mouths the Lord Jesus , nor can beleive in their own hearts to Salvation , as the Apostle expresseth it . And if they may be called faithful , because they profess the faith , by the mouths of those that hold them and answer for them , why may they not also be reputed penitents , when by their mouths likewise that hold them , they do renounce the world , and the Devill . Now the reason of all this is plain to sense , for the Spiritual regeneration , holds great proportion , with the carnall generation , especially in this , for as children in their mothers wombs , Rom. 10.9 . do not take nourishment themselves , by themselves , but are sustained by the nourishment of their mothers . So children not having yet the use of reason , being as it where in the womb of the Church , do not by themselves , but by the Churches action , receive Salvation , and so the faith of others , that is of the Church , their Parents , and God Fathers offering them up to Baptisme , is sufficient for their Salvation , as the faith of those which offered the man sick of the palsy to our Saviours cure , was the means of his recovery , Matt. 8. Matt. 9. Mat. 15. and the forgiveness of his sins for our Saviour seeing their faith , said , Son thy sins are forgiven thee . So the faith of the Centurion obtained health for his son , and the faith of the Caananitish woman obtained for her daughter the dispossession of the Devill .

To the second .

We say that what you urge of Philip and Cornelius makes nothing to our purpose for they were grown men , so ought to be taught and have the Gospel preacht to them .

To the Third .

To your grand argument out of reason , we answer & return it thus upon you . Reprobates are not to be baptised , but many grown men are reprobates , therefore all grown men are not to be baptised . It is altogether So as strong against , you as against us .

To the fourth .

To what you so learnedly urge out of antiquity that the ancient primitive Christians did administer baptisme but thrice a year , therefore children so soon as they were born were not to be baptised . We will grant you more than that , for it was administred but twise a year , and that was in the time of Easter and Whit-suntide , but that was the solemn baptisme for those that were grown , & taught by a long course of Catechising . & in that the primitive Church , did rightly observe the order that was prescribed by our Saviour Jesus Christ , which was this , first to instruct them that were to be baptised , in the faith , Secondly to teach them to keep the commandement of God . 3ly . To baptise them , but this order we say was only to be observed with those that were grown and capable of such instruction , and in this we conceive by all your main mistakes .

To the Fifth .

That there is not a word in Scripture concerning the baptisme of infants , we utterly do deny , and shall anon prove to the contrary , as also that it was the invention of Pope Nicholas is altogether as false , but as bad antiquaries as we are , we will prove it to have been a constant practice in the Church in S. Ieroms , S. Augustins and S. Cyprians time , that were before Pope Nicholas , four hundred , and Six hundred years ,

To the Sixth

We answer as for the character imprinted on the soul by baptisme that gives you so much offence , it is no feigned thing by the Fathers as you pretend , but those men of God have always so understood it , by the instruction of the Holy Ghost , and out of the letter of Scripture , as we shall shew you anon more largely .

To the Seventh .

We say that by your favour , it is no such ridiculous thing , that water by the assistance of divine grace should make such a character or impression on the soul . It is not we say water , but God that makes such an impression by the means of baptismall water , his divine omnipotency assisting that Sacrament : and in this point Christians have a priviledge over the Jews , for we have the mark and impression of the spirit on our souls , but they had it only in the flesh of their bodies , so give us leave to reply again , and we shall conclude .

That the Baptisme of Infants is lawfull , and by it there is a character imprest upon Christian souls ; we prove by Scripture thus .

First , we find expresly in Genesis that Children are capable of the Covenant of Grace , for the Lord saies there , This is my Covenant , which ye shall keep between me and you , and thy seed after thee , every man-child amongst you shall he circumcised , Gen. 17.10.14 . &c. And then afterwards it is said , and the uncircumcised manchild , whose flesh of his fore-skin is not circumcised , that soul shall be cut off from his people , he has broken my Covenant , &c. If Children are capable of breaking the Covenant , then they are also of keeping it , and Baptisme is the same in the Church , that Circumcision was in the Synagogue , for as by Circumcision the Jewish Infants were included in the divine Covenant , so Christian Infants sure are not to be excluded from the Covenant of Grace , wherefore Infants are to be baptised , and those that are not so , are in danger of damnation .

All this is plainly made good by our blessed Saviour in the Gospells , where we find , that they brought young Children to him , that he should touch them , but his Disciples rebuked them that brought them , but when Jesus saw it he was much displeased , and said to them , Mar. 10.13 , 14.16 . Suffer little Children to come unto me , and forbid them not , for of such is the Kingdome of God , and he took them in his armes , put his hands upon them and blessed them , &c. How can your Sect therefore justify to hinder little Children to come unto Christ ?

Our Saviour again in St. Matthews Gospell , commands his Apostles to baptise all Nations , Mat. 28.19 . you must therefore grant Children to be included as a part of those Nations .

St. 1 Cor. 11.1 , 2. Paul plainly requires the Corinthians not to be ignorant of this , and tells them , how that all our Fathers were under the Cloud , and all passed thorough the Sea , and were all baptised unto Moses in the Cloud , and in the Sea . Now it is certain that the Infants were as well in the cloud , and in the Sea , as their Fathers were , and were so also figuratively baptised

Again S. Heb. 6.4.6 Paul. has a remarkable passage in his Epistle to the Hebrews , which is this , For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened , and have tasted of the heavenly gift , and were made partakers of the holy Ghost &c. If they shall fall away to renew them unto repentance . This must be understood of the renewing by baptisme , which cannot be reiterated ; not of repentance , which we know may be , though you , and some other Hereticks deny it , and from thence infer a renovation of Baptisme .

Again to the Romans , for if through the offence of one many be dead , Rom. 5.15 , 16 , 17 , 18 , 19. much more by the grace of God and the gift by grace , which is by on man Jesus Christ hath abounded unto many , and a little after saies , as by one mans offence death reigned , by one , much more shall life by one Jesus Christ , and again as by one mans disobedience many were made sinners , So by the obedience of one , shall many be made righteous , from hence we infer , that as both men and childeren were capable of death by Adams fall , so both men and children are capable of a regeneration by Christ . 1 Cor. 15.20 . Rom. 6. This the Apostle confirmes again to the Corinthians , when he tells them , for as in Adam all dye ( that is children as well as men ) even so in Christ shall all be made alive ( that is children too as well as men ) and that is by baptisme , by which we are all incorporated into Christ as the same Apostle saies in another place .

Then we finde that the Apostles did usually baptise whole families and housholds , Ags 16.14 . as in the Acts Lydia was baptised and her houshold , and St. Paul saies , he baptised the houshold of Stephanus &c. 1 Cor. 1.16 . now in those housholds there were undoubtedly children too , and this has been always so universally practised in the Church , that no sober Christians can doubt the truth of it .

And if there be yet any room for a doubt , be pleased to take this argument along with you . Whoever are capable of justifying grace may by Sanctifying grace be freed from original Sin , and so by consequence must be capable of the remedy of originall sin , and that is biptisme : b●t infants are capable of justifying grace , as is plain in the example of S. John Baptist , of whom it is said that he was sanctifyed & filled with the holy Ghost from his mothers womb . Therefore sure children must be thought capable of the remedy against original sin , and that is baptisme . So now I shall proceed to prove some thing of the character imprinted on our souls by Baptisme , which it seems gives your party somuch scandall .

Now that this character of ours is plainly prefigured and spoken of in the old Testament , as first in Exodus , Exod. 12 7. where we finde that the blood of the Lamb , was to be sprinkled on the two side-posts , and on the uper dore-posts of the houses , where the passover was to be eaten that so the destroying Angel might pass them by . So Christ in Baptisme , by the merit of his blood , does sign the side posts , and uper dore posts of our souls , that they may be preserved from the malice of the devil .

Again , we find that this Christian character of ours , was perfectly prefigured in the mark which Ezekiel speaks of , Ez. 9.4 . by Gods command , v. 6. And the Lord said unto him , go through the midst of Jerusalem , and set T. a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh , & that cry for all the abomination , that be done in the midst thereof , & a little after , when the Lord commanded to slay utterly both old & young , both maids & little children , but charged them not to come near any one upon whom was the mark , you may observe by the way , that the mark was to be set upon young as well as old & little children too , to be preserved from the hands of the destroyer , & that mark T then spoken of , is presumed by all the learned , to be the Tipe of our character in Baptisme . Then this mark is most clearly prophesied of , & exprest by the Prophet Isay 66.18 , 19. where speaking of the conversion of the Gentiles , & the future glory & sanctity of the Christian Church , he saith , It shall come that I will gather all nations & tongues , & they shal come & see my glory , & I will set a sign among them , & I will send those that escape of them unto the Nations to Tarshith , Pul , & Lud , that draw the bow , to Tubal , & Javan , & the Isles afar off , that have not heard my fame , neither have seen my glory , & they shal declare my glory among the Gentels . Hear the Prophet plainly forsees & prophesies the sending of the Apostles & Disciples into Africa & Jndia , as well as Europe and that this sign or character which we treat of , shall be establisht amongst all Christians :

But now the new Testament is so plain & express in this point that we admire how any knowing Christian can dispute it . First St. Paul saies to the Ephesians . 1.13 14. in whom also after that ye beleived , ye were sealed with the holy Spirit of promise , which is the earnest of our inheritance &c. by which text it is evident that the faithfull in the regeneration of Baptisme are signed , sealed , and marked by the holy Ghost , that the sheep of Jesus Christ may be known and distinguisht from others .

Again the same Apostle repeats in the same Epistle Ephes. 4.30 Grieve not the holy Spirit of God whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption , that sealing of the holy Ghost is the only character that we speak of , and which is seems , gives you so much scandall

St. Iohn . in like manner is very large in his discourse upon this sealing of a Christian , in his whose book of his Revelation 7.2 3. but particularly in one place produceth , an Angel ascending out of the East and haveing the seal of the living God , crying with a loud voice to the four Angells , to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the Sea , and saying hurt not the earth neither Sea , nor the treas , till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads , what is that seal I pray but our most sacred Christian Character , which we receive in Baptisme ?

Thus we weak women have been bold , M. R. to shew you some of our little skill in Scripture , by offering to your serious consideration these sew Texts . not doubting but your better Bible abilities , will soon furnish you with more . If your own obstanency of Spirit , which you call Text-fastness , will permi● to you a right understanding For it is impossible , that any one who keeps so contant a reading and conversation in Scripture , as most of you do , should not be satisfyed in what is there declared against all sorts of such Phanatick Spirits , unless they be resolved , as ( it is to be feared ) most of you are , to prejudicate , nay to violate the sense of the holy Spirit it self . You know none are so blinde , as they that are so willfully , nor so ignorant as they that will not understand , from which perversity , if not reprobation of sence we do humbly pray Allmighty God to deliver you , and all other missed Souls of mistaking Christians , and give you all that humility and resignation of Spirit , as is requifit for all those that will grow in grace , and in the knowledge of Jesus Christ and his holy word . So fa●e you well , and believe that we are .

M. R. Your friends in Christ . M. N.
FINIS .