A dialogue between R---- and F----, concerning a discourse entitul'd, The view of an ecclesiastick in his socks and buskins: or, a just reprimand given to Mr. Alsop. Wherein is discover'd, an unheard-of discord between the author and himself. / By a friend to the cause of Mr. Lobb, the worth of Mr. Williams, and the persons of both.

A DIALOGUE BETWEEN R — and F — . R.

WELL met , Sir .

I wish it may be so ; for some think we never as yet met well ; that never was the least Harmony , but greatest Discord imaginable , as in our Principles and Practises , so in our Discourses and printed Books too : especially about Politicks . I therefore more than believe we shall certainly fall out , and make sport and merriment for all that see us , and hear us talk . But do you not think Mr. Alsop is justly charged with a ludicrous way of speaking of the Eternal Counsels of God , and of the great Articles of the Christian Faith , as he is charged in the Preface , and often in the Book [ The Reprimand ] ?

No man doubts it , every man blames him here , himself excepted ; and I now hope this Exception will not be long liv'd . It seems to his Adversaries and Advocates too to be a Sin of a deep dye , that hath too great an affinity with his 5 Dan. 3 , 4 , 5 , 6. when they brought the golden Vessels of the Temple , as common ones , in their Feasts , for which was a Hand-writing against the Wall . Let him remember this in his Writings , which are too much tinctur'd with Levity : If he or any other doubt it , I only pray them , melius inquirendum , that they would better enquire . That he is a man of an unbridled Fancy , cannot be denied : A Joke , and sometimes an unsavory one , ( and the more prophane when sacred ) tickleth like a Sneeze , that there is no rest till it be out , though never so offensive to chaste Ears . Non tutum est ludere sacris is in every man's Mouth . This Sin makes great breaches in the Conscience . D. Wilde ( as is hinted ) some months before his death , paid dear for his Levity , and so may Mr. Alsop in time ; I hope on this side the Grave . Give , I pray , your Character of him .

I will so behave my self in the Reflections I am to make , as not to depart from the Rules of good breeding , p. 14. And therefore I say Mr. Alsop is delirious , a mad-man , distracted . He slanders and lampoons an Adversary , when his business should be modestly to confute him — This is not consonant with , nor reconcilable to me . I therefore promise , There shall be nothing course or unsavory , but all palatable and well drest : I will perform a Duty that I conceive to be lawful . —

I doubt you are ( not he ) distracted , I am sure you talk as such : Do you make Promises only to break them , and that in the same breath too ? Is it not your business modestly to confute an Adversary as well as his ? Or mean you this is his Province only , not yours ? You promise well tho brokenly , You will do it . I assure you it is high time , for you have never done it yet ; your Practise hath hitherto confuted you , I wish ●●●●ay not still . I must deal plainly with you , You are the most inconsistent man I ever heard .

You are a K — to talk thus .

It may be so , Sir ; for I have always been so conversant with you , that I may be such as you ; and it is often said , The Oyster-women and Apple-women at Billinsgate seldom speak truth , but when they call one-another Whores and Tosspots . But there seems to be such Confusion in your Discourse , as in the Babel-building : You require one thing , and use another ; which puts me in mind of those known witty Verses of Du Bartus .

Bring me , quoth one , a Trowel , quickly quick . He brings him up a Hammer ; hew this Brick Another crys , and then he cleaves a Tree : Make fast this Rope , and then he lets it flee . One calls for Planks , another Mortar lacks ; He brings the first a Stone , the last an Ax.

Hear me then about another thing . Mr. Williams and Mr. A. insinuate , p. 18 , That Mr. Lobb hath been criminally acquainted with Friend , Fenwick , and Charnock : He accuseth the Prefacer of the Defence of the Report as a man disloyal , and yet knows not who he is .

If Mr. Lobbe were guilty , you have said too much in his vin●●●●tion : if not , too little . You should , in short , have said more , or nothing ; unless you , as some young Conjurer , would raise a Spirit you could not allay : Were you a Lawyer , and to plead the Cause of a Clyent at this rate , Six-pence Fee would be too much by a Groat . Mr. Lobbe may be as true to the King and his Cause as any man in the Three Kingdoms , for ought I know ; but You , Sir , are a woful Compurgator .

I say , It ought to alarm all Mankind , whose Misfortune hath brought them within the Circle of Mr. Williams 's acquaintance and conversation , to find how precariously they hold their Lives , if he , through Caprice and Humor , should be displeas'd , or but grow jealous , that they pay not a profound Devotion to his Person and Opinions . —

Oh Brother , say no more of him , not so much for his sake ( for as you hate him , I do not love him ) but for our own : There are many foul Stories of him , I wish they had been true , but they wanted Proof , his Enemies confest ; and Truth too , say his Friends .

Say what you will , His Conscience , Breeding , and Judgment be of a piece , p. 19. and his Language is of alliance with his Birth and Breeding , his Rhetorick is boorish and clownish . —

Some that are intimate with him ( and no Neonomians or Baxterians , I assure you ) are forced by much observation to acknowledge the contrary to the former part of your Charge , and his Writings justifie him against the latter part .

The Presbyterians are tinctur'd with Republican Principles , and therefore not so loyal and zealous for Monarchy . —

You cannot but know , where there is one Presbyterian so , there are five Congregational Men ; but any thing to serve a Turn : You once blamed the Presbyterian for not being so .

Mr. Williams also , p. 20 , prostituted and debauched the Pulpit by harranguing his Auditors with an Invective against K. James and the Jesuits , when his whole work in that place should have been to preach the Gospel , and not vented a Satyr , or read a Lecture of Politicks —

Did you not say , That neither your Nature , nor Education , nor Religion would suffer you to be guilty of that fault , for which you censure your Adversary Mr. A. and yet you out-do him by ten fold . When treated he an Adversary at this rate ? Thus , according to our English plain Proverbs , The Devil reproves Sin , The Kettle calls the Brandice smut , Catalina Cathegos ; when Passion is up , Reason is down ; Speak soft , speak soft , Treason will out . Is it become an Offence to preach against King James , what man , and the Jesuites , too ? Hath ●e done , as you , preach'd against him , and for him too ? Did he blow the Trumpet to raise the Nation for King William , and against King James , and after so happy a Change , without any just Cause , against King William , and for King James ? Did you never triumph at the death of the Martyr , and repeat such Verses as those ( I have not the Copy , and therefore may content my self with the sense ) on the Thirtieth of January ?

See the Sot to Church reels out , Who now is plaguily devout : It is the Day in which he fell Martyr to the Cause of Hell : It is our Saint's Canonization , Justly crown'd with Decollation . To us of late in wrath were given Two cursed Tyrants and a Stallion . Fill the Glass with sparkling Red : Look , 't was thus the Tyrant bled ; Thus our Fathers let us see Kings are Flesh and Blood , as we . Now may our banish'd Tarquins Fate Prove as just , but not so great : May blest Lewis for old Scores Turn him p●orly out of doors ; A cursed shameful Death attend him , May a friendly Halter end him , &c.

Or did you never please your self with hearing or reciting the Epitaph made by a Boy , on Ned Hyde ?

Here lies Ned Hyde , Because he dy'd : But I had rather It had been his Father : Had it been his Sister , No one would have mist her . Well for the three Nations Had it been all the Relations , &c.

How often have you roar'd over strong Liquors the known Verses on the Birth of the pretended Prince of Wales , and the day of Thanksgiving ?

Two Toms and a Nat In Council sat To rigg out a Thanksgiving , And to make a Prayer For a thing in the Air , That 's neither dead nor living . The Dame in the East , As 't is exprest , In her last blest Epistle , Vnto our Lady Bequeath'd a Baby , With Coral , Bells and Whistle . For this intent To her she sent Her Diamond-Rings and Bodkin , To give her leave For to conceive : Pray was not this an odd thing ? Here 's a Cup of Ale To the Prince of Wale , Tho' some are of opinion , When all is out , A double Clout May cover his whole Dominion . Caesar to keep the Laws did plight his troth , He made his Will his Law to save his Oath .

Did not you talk every where of the Suppositious Child , which you now say was not so ? And that the Earl of Essex cut not his own Throat , and now say ●he did , and that you invented that Lye ? Who then can take your Word for any thing ? And it is often said , You will never be quiet till you are hang'd .

My Word will be taken , I am sure , ( without any ones being bound for me ) that I shall be quiet then , if not before . But however R. they say , Marriage and Hanging come by Destiny ; and if so , you may be hang'd as soon as I , R. and with the same Cord too .

You know it was often said of John Lilbourn , If there were but one man in the World , there would be no Quietness ; for John would quarrel with Lilbourn , and Lilbourn with John . So it is said of you ; but this cost both dear , for John had Four hundred Stripes when whipp'd in London Streets , and Lilbourn had Four hundred more ; between them both Eight hundred : I wish you better Luck , Sir . And for your Writings , you know the witty Letters of Mr. Glanvil and Sherlock , in their Account of your Common-place-book , where Mr. Glanvil proves , when writing against him , you stole many of your Rhetorical Flowers out of his Books , particularly the Vanity of Dogmatizing ; and , as he merrily exprest it , you at the same time pick't his Pocket , and cut his Throat .

Let us go on , honest R , to other matters .

I have no more Honesty than you , nor never shall , whilst so conversant together .

Waque conspecta livorem ducit ab uva . F. Mr.

Alsop , p. 22 , lays claim to a Talent Nature hath indispos'd him for : The most that can be allow'd him is , that he is fit to be a Droll or Buffoon — He can be accounted a Witty man only among little people , that have no Genius or good Relish — Among none whose excellency of Sense , and accuracy of Gust , distinguishes them from the insipid and rude Rabble — All that can be allow'd him is , He may set up for a Merry Andrew , or hire himself at a Bartholomew-Fair . True Wit , p. 22 , consists in jnstness of Thoughts — to have Ideas of a matter , p. 23 , comprehensive of all that imports and reaches to the utmost dimensions of it , — and the Harmony that is among them , &c.

Many , almost all , acknowledge as once you did , Mr. Alsop to be a Wit. I am sure I did ; and , to be plain , to my knowledge so did you , when he wrote against your Adversary as well as his ; and now he hath crost you a little , you shamefully recall what you have said times without number , and clap ( which is worse ) the quite contrary in its place : But , Sir , you rather give us a description of Wisdom than Wit ; that is seated in the Understanding , this in the Fancy : And such a description give you too , that I dare pawn my Credit ( if I had any ) that every man wants ; no meer Man , but the Protoplast , had it , or ever will .

Mr. Alsop will not allow himself to be a Lunatick , and delirious , p. 24. I tell him of Gentlemanly breeding , and of Vngentlemanly things —

I pray tell me some of Mr. Alsop's Expressions , that prove him to be no Wit.

He says , When Mr. L. would ride in triumph over dull Presbyterians , some one should have adorn'd his Chariot , p. 25 , and talks of S. L. that is , Slanderous Libeller ; and that a Libel is a Lye with a Bell at the end of it .

What ails all this ?

He talks also of Ordures , p. 27.

So do you in the same Book ; and what if all be not of a piece ? Was Mervil a Wit ? Was Etchard another ? Both stumbled now and then , as well as Mr. Alsop , tho' it may be not so unhappily as he , on the Threshold of a particular Book about the Shoehorn . I know , Sir , you love amorous Songs , is not this Wit to a Sweet-heart ?

When first I saw thee thou didst sweetly play The gentle Thief , and stolst my heart away ; Send me it back again , or send thine own , For two's too much for one , since I have none . But if thou wilt not , I will say thou art A sweet-fac'd Creature with a double heart .

Or that of Dr. Wilde to John Crosse , when sitting against him :

I doubt John Cross that thou hast wed thy wo , Thy Wife is Cross , but thou hast made her so .

He answer'd :

My wife is cross , 't is true , but sometimes mild ; But it 's well known thy wife is always Wild.

Were the Replies to K. C. ( You have the Valour of your Grandfather , the Policy of your Father , the Honesty of your Mother , and Religion of your Brother ) Wit ? Was Here is Lauder dale the pretty , &c. he that should say No , one would think he should lose his own Wits ; if Yes , answered they your description of Wit ?

Mars ad opus Veneris , Martis ad arma Venus ;

and many other things , said of K. C. the 2d , ( and by him too ) but no end here .

Say what you will ( for so will I ) I say , Mr. Alsop is equally boorish and inpure : All he says is wholly impertinent , or else clownish , or downright Ribaldry ; and I blush to go on repeating —

I pray tell me some of those Impertinencies .

When he chargeth Mr. Lobbe to have misrepresented him , see how he phraseth it : By his extracting water out of a Flint , and by his being in possession of an Engine that can find Draining-work in Salisbury-Plain , p. 32.

What then , is not all this well enough ?

All his wit is the wit of Coblers and Tinkers , rather than either of a Fresh man in the Vniversity , or of a common Tradesman in the City — His best Turn of Thoughts would hardly be tolerable in a Farce , but would by no means be allowed in a Comedy , p. 35. He ought never to venture into the light , for fear of being booted at . —

I dare be bold to say , you need no Answer from me , nor any Man , to all this ; you know , as well as we , the contrary ; you do not , you cannot believe as you say , and therefore , no doubt , you will be reckoned to Posterity ; as the once Grand Defamer of the world , and that when writing against such . But , Sir , you say Mr. Alsop should with meekness instruct them that oppose themselves , 2 Tim. 2. And should not you ? Yet you presently add , Mr. A. is a man of a Luciferian pride and hatred ; and , p. 35 , He gives occasion to think he never acts a part in preaching in reality and seriously , but to gain a livelihood . No more therefore play with Scripture , the thing you charge your Adversary with : Is this meekness ? Is this according to your Promise , All should be clean ?

Hold thy Tongue , I say , it is pitty Dr. Erchard is dead , there being more ma●ter and occasion given in two Pamphlets o● Mr. Alsop , for writing Volumes of the Contempt of the Clergy , than that Author could furnish his Adversary with some years since .

What! then the Story of Father Slipstocking ! then the Doctrin on 4 Mal. 2. But unto you that fear my name shall the sun of righteousness arise , with healing in his wings : That the coming of Christ into the World was a Zodiacal mercy , yea , a mercy truly Zodiacal : That Christ past thro' th● twelve Signs of the Zodiack , Aries , Taurus , &c. And in the Application , Ungodly Men are Artick and Antartick Reprobates . Wrote Mr. Alsop , or talk'd he , at such a● rate ?

I say , p. 37 , If the least corrupt communication ( i. e. nasty or unclean , as the word 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 doth import ) is forbidden every Christian , in his divertive Discourse , 4 Ephes. 29 , &c. he compares Christ's entring into Bond with us to the Pacta Conventa of Poland , &c.

Stop , I care to hear no more , it is worse than bad : I own a Commutation of Persons as a good Phrase , tho' not a necessary one .

Mr. Alsop says , He would not for a Groat run the hazard of falling into the Infernal Pit : So he turns Hell into a Jest , which his best Friends may call Vnpardonable Levity . Is it not worth more than the expence of a Groat to avoid Damnation ? Would he not disburse more to purchase Heaven than he hath fix'd the price of escaping Hell ? —

Oh , for Shame ! you would make quidlibet ex quolibet ; I know your Heart in this thing ; He thought no danger in the Cloak .

Whoever justifie and excuse Mr. Alsop , they are not only a dull and insipid sort of People , but have neither Grace nor Modesty , p. 40.

No man that knows you , thinks you overladen with either , by your words or actings .

I say , All the Presbyterians who meet at St. Helens , and their Auditors , may consider what Character they will unavoidably come under , unless they bear some publick testimony against Mr. A 's Buffoonry . The Odium Theologicum , as is observ'd , is greater than other mens , p. 44. I say , p. 45 , This is the work of the Coward , the Knave , and the Mad-man . Mr. A 's Forehead is Brass , p. 46 , double gilt , his Conscience is callous and dedolent .

What! you run down Communities . They will tell you , the Independents a●● as much bound to appear against you 〈◊〉 they against him , for prodigious Slande●● and Diabolisms , for a Mouth as an op●● Sepulchre , &c.

Mr. A. hath usurped the Throne 〈◊〉 the Omnis●ient , by telling mens Thoughts .

And did not you , by saying , Mr. 〈◊〉 p. 52 , hath done contrary to the practic● dictamen of his own Vnderstanding ? H● is , p. 48 , deliriius , and raving , — bein● of one mind in the Intervals of his Paroxisms , and of another in his fits of distraction . Such words do you no kindnes● I pray tell me F , how came your late Boo● to be so pleasing to some Antinomians an● Crispians ? Is there any thing in it to favour them ?

They are generally such Childish me● that they had need learn a Catechism : the● think every thing is for them that is agains● Mr. Baxte● , or Mr. Williams . I comment in the Book Mr. Lobbe , and say , None opposeth the foppish , novel , Antievangelica● Tenets of the Antinomians more than he● And I censure Dr. Crisp by Name .

Mr. Lobbe not only deserves Commendation , but hath it , for his Plainness , Honesty , and Fidelity in this respect . He chargeth Dr. Crisp's Doctrine as Blasphemous , &c. when too many Independents , to ●heir shame , have their Mouths muzzled .

I commend Mr. Humphreys the Bax●erian , tho' corrupt , as a man of meekness , ●umility , and charity to them that dissent ; ●ot like Mr. Williams .

I once received a Letter from this ●an of Modesty and Charity , in which I ●ound him one of the most immodest and ●ncharitable men I ever met with , when ●ave found the Character you give of him ●o answer Mr. Williams . He wrote me , He could hardly in Conscience pray for me , ●elieving God would never forgive me , un●●ess I repented writing against Mr. Baxter . To whom I replied , Is this the Language ●f you men of Love , Vnity , Peace , and Con●ord ? That if he could hardly in Conscience ●ray for me , I could not but in Conscience ●ray for him . This man of Charity to Ma●ometans , believing their Salvation with●ut Faith in Christ , and living and dying , ●wning an Impostor , and never repent of ●his , could not have so much Charity for ●e , as to hope God might put this thing ●n the score of the Sins of Ignorance . This ●an of Modesty and Charity hath been an ●l Agent all his days . When it pleased God to work that Glorious Reformation ●y the Assembly of Divines and Parliament , to cast out from the Lord's Table ungod●● wicked men , this man of Modesty com●● out and trigs them with his Free Admissio●● He stops not here , but flies in the Face 〈◊〉 our first Reformers , and that not in a sma●● point about Discipline , but in a weight 〈◊〉 point about Doctrine . He disowns th● Doctrine of Justification by imputed Rig●teousness , under the very notion as Prot●●stant ; which neither his Master nor Eld●● Brethren had the Face to do . He stops n●● here , but contrary to the Papists as well 〈◊〉 our selves , asserts the Salvation of Heathe●● by the Light of Nature , without Faith i● Christ , and knowledge of his Word . Th●● man , so much applauded for Modesty an● Charity , and that in opposition to M●● Williams , I speak my Heart , by his Let●●● to me , and by the Account I can get o● 〈◊〉 by some others , is a conceited uncharitab●● Opinionist .

This Mr. Williams you talk of ca●● neither speak nor write Syntaxical Latin , 〈◊〉 he can understand a common Roman Autho● p. 55. And I can shew Mr. Alsop too to 〈◊〉 a Dunce in Philology ; he hath neithe● grace nor good manners , p. 72. The Beli●● and Doctrine of the man are not to be take● on his Ravings , on his Fits of Lunacy an● Distraction , but by his Antisozzo , which h● wrote before he became delirious , or under the decay of the Moon , or in his Lucida , p. 75. Only it will be necessary for his Aud●tors carefully to remark how the Tide flows 01 at London-bridge , and Westminster-stairs , that they may thereby calculate at what seasons they may give Credit to the Doctrine of their Pastor . Yet , I say , after all , p. 81 , I do freely acknowledge , that there is no man of more Latitude , as to Principles , or measure of Charity , Good-nature , or Civil manners , than I desire to be . Nay , I take pleasure , p. 81 , in my self , to find I am by Education , Principles , and Temper carried into the greatest Aversation imaginable against them who are given to — Calumny , &c.

I must deal plainly with you now ; is this your Meekness and Civility ? you have contrary to your repeated Protestations and Promises outdone your Adversary by a hundred fold . Say next , that Mr. Williams is no Man , but an Elephant ; and , that Mr. Alsop is a Horse : — All will say , Never were there more impudent Untruths told the World : no wonder hardly can I find the man that cares to own or justifie the Book .

I call Mr. Alsop , p. 96 , This Holder-forth —

Was not this a term invented by the Atheistical and Prophane , and therefore more to be abhorr'd on this account tha● the Story of the Cloak so invented , as your say ; against D. B ?

I call him also Westminster Parson , p. 97 , and say , He can be at one time Fool , at another time Knave , p. 104.

This will please no sober Independent sure , but only some little Crispianish sort of them .

They sure will never be pleas'd by me , for I say , as the Atheists Heaven hath no God in it ; the Socinians Hell hath no Devil in it ; so the Antinomians Justification hath no Faith in it .

That too great a Load may not lie on Mr. Alsop , I must confess , it was his great unhappiness that he should fall on a mistake about D. B. where he might have made his choice . I am not of their mind , who sa●● Had all been true , it ought to have been cover'd ; No , say I , but openly protested against with the greatest Zeal and Indignation imaginable . Do men think they are on Stages when in Pulpits ? Every thing Theatrical should be banish'd thence . Our common Cause of Nonconformity throughout all England suffers ( and that not a little ) by this Theological Mountebank . I never heard him but once , and then he took up the Hour-glass , and held it forth , raving like a mad-man , Look here — Even so — I have heard from 〈◊〉 worthy Divine ( now dead ) who was his Au●tor , woful Pulpit-stuff of his . His first Book●● Meditations is intolerable , unworthy impudent ●●ssages about God — World hang thee , and all ●●at love thee , &c. Yet a Preface is there before ●●e Book , with an Epistle of a Friend of his , to ●im , who magnifies him ( as he modestly prints 〈◊〉 ) for his Ingenuity greater than that of his ●●ethren . I know whatever Zeal he pretends to ●or Nonconformity Purity of Worship , he was about to conform a little before K. James's In●●lgence came out . How well antick Tricks , Ceremonies , and a Liturgy had been matcht together ! would others had had this Pedantick , Self-admirer , and Villifier ( notorious Villifier ) of Ministers to the injudicious Multitude , rather than we . Must such a man be caress'd , and a man of Mr. Williams's parts , gravity , and 〈◊〉 preaching , be postpon'd to a Jack Puddin ! I ●ay , it is well known Mr. Williams's natural parts are to admiration , and his acquir'd parts above contempt . One ounce of Mother-wit is worth a pound of Clergy , is a common and true Proverb .

I censure Mr. Alsop for talking of the seasonable death of two known Antinomians ( Mr. Mathers and Mr. Cole ) and say , p. 119 , Mr. Alsop can never hope to dye the death of the righteous , nor to deserve the burial of a man ; he must expect to depart under the Infamy ( if he escape the Horror ) of the wicked , and to have his remembrance perpetuated by such an Epitaph as might be written upon a Tyger , or a Bear — M●● sop , p. 22 , a little pitiful Tool himself , t●● others so too —

What mean these Heats , these preter●ral Heats , Had the Charge been true ! b●● meant no more , than that their death was s●●nable for Mr. Lobb , who , as he imagin'd , ( 〈◊〉 I think without cause ) took liberty to exp●●● himself more like an Anti-antinomian than 〈◊〉 durst to do had they been alive . Many wor●● Congregational men bewail'd their too gr●● Propensities to some of Crisp's mad Notions .

I blame Mr. Alsop for making Mr. Ho●● Trimmer , that is , a Hypocrite , and a Disse●bler , and one ●ho guides himself in his politi●● and moral conduct by no other Principles , sa●● by those of Worldly Safety , and Secular Intere●● This is equivalent to Rogue and Rascal , p. 10 And thus is he brought forth as a Knave in 〈◊〉 view of the world , p. 108.

You cannot in your Conscience believ●● Mr. Alsop intended any such thing . You kno●● how many Ministers talk of Mr. H. ( as well a● Hearers ) as a kind of Temporizer , and think h● hath not at last imitated Gentlewomen by kirching so often in the Pulpit , with his Hands on his Belly , ( then on one side , then on t'other ) for nothing : tho' no doubt they are to blame who talk too much of this ; and therefore remember , Mr. Alsop hath great company , and good too , in his Censure , tho it may be all to blame .

I say , Mr. Daniel Burgis is above Mr. Al●● , and Mr. Williams , in Vprightness and In●rity .

Comparisons , they say , are odious , and I 〈◊〉 sure this is so ; and the worse , because re●●te , exceeding remote from Truth .

Well R , believe me , I have my Thoughts ●●der the a●tecedent Government , as well as the ●terior Examination and Censure of my reason .

Tho' we have your word for it , no man ●●ll or can believe you .

Say what you will , p. 122 , I have done this ●●rk with the manners of a Gentleman —

Some will say , ( whom I cannot confute ) ●ith the rudeness of a Tinker .

I sa● , most of the Salt and Pepper , as well 〈◊〉 Vinegar , which this work would have born , are 〈…〉 till the next encounter with Mr. Alsop , 〈◊〉 he throw himself in my way again — Mr. Alsop ●●e Presbyterian Preacher , say I , hath outdone the ●ost libertine and licentious among the Poets in ●ll that is unmannerly , rude , clownish , detra●ive and impious .

You must then f●tch your Salt , Pepper , ●nd Vinegar out of some Quackers writing George ●o● will help you to ▪ thou Conjurer , thou ●itch , thou Devil , &c. or Mr. Penn , or Sam. ●isher , thou B●lz●bub the Pr●nce of Devils . —

I confess , in your Book are fine Strokes , ●ood Apothegins , but the Sentences are too nu●erous , and of the same import . Here 's a Tree ●ull of large Leaves , but little Fruit ; much Sawce , but little Meat ; many phrases , but li●● matter : the substance of all might have bee● two Sheets , but you have done the same thi●● ad nauseam , and yet promise as to your 〈◊〉 ( and counsel us too ) âgainst hard words 〈◊〉 provoking reflections . Thus , when I have b●● reading the Book , I have imagin'd my self befo●● a drunken man , who in the midst of his C●●● had heated his Nose , and unhinged his Tong 〈◊〉 and yet before and after every Cup would re●● a Lecture of Sobriety and Temperance , and 〈◊〉 claim against Drunkenness , till he either f●● asleep , or dropt under the Board by his excessi●● drinking . Suppose he should say , Oh my friend I desire you all to be temperate — Drunkemi●● metamorphoseth a man into a be ast . — Then ta●● off the other large Cup or Glass , — then wh●● his Eyes star'd , he goes on with pious Counse●●● Be not drunk with wine , wherein is excess , 〈◊〉 filled with the spirit . — I am glad , Sirs , my Te●●per , my Education , my Religion will not perm●● me to drink immoderately . Off goes the othe●● Cup or Glass ; at last he tells them who neve● were intemperate as he , O ye drunken Dog● learn to speak soberly , as I do — You Rogues an● drunken Devils , act soberly , as I do , &c. So , Sin have you written and spoken , and therefore 〈◊〉 am resolved to reason with you no more , no● to hear one word you say .

Then I will hear thee R ; what have you to say to me , or what Counsel to give me ?

Void no more Books , you have too man● ●f late , which give a woful hogo ; then for a ●ause , and then against it : get an honest Heart ●nd beware of a Sceptical Head : put off the Mask of a Layman , by which you put a Trick ●n the World by Niceties : learn some temper ●nd moderation in a Controversie ; these are ●hings you once pleaded for , and seem'd to ●ractise . I believe it to be a great Error to assert the Suffering of Christ not to be properly or formally , but materially or analogically call'd Punishments ; or to say man's Sin was not the Causa meritoria , but pro causa , or Occasion of Christ's Death and Sufferings : that let some men do what they will to distinguish Mr. Baxter into Orthodoxness , no man sure can into Pru●dence . It must be fatal to lay aside terms used 〈◊〉 the Orthodox in a Controversie , and to take up with such as are used by the worst of Hereticks , tho' men say , He meant not this , but meant that — I dare not say with Dr. Goodwin , that I greatly doubt Mr. Baxter 's Conversion ; nor with Mr. Herle , that it had been good for the Church of God if he had never been born ; nor with Mr. Capel , that his Parents might repent that ever they sent him to School : nor will I say what the famous Jasper Hicks in the West said of him ; yet I cannot but bewail the Errors he hath set on foot . I think ( to be plain ) Mr. Lobb hath granted the Baxterians too much , by rejecting any such gloss on 2 Gen. 17 , Thou shalt dye , or thy Surety : For is that Sentence definitive , or comminatory only ? if a Threat , that might be revoked , like that of 3 Jon. Within forty days Nineveh shall be destroy●● or to Hezekiah , Set thy house in order , for t●● shalt dye , and not live : if so , then after man 〈◊〉 sin'd , God could have pardoned him witho● satisfaction , or without giving a Redeemer 〈◊〉 the World , will not this ( too much ) ma●● Christ to die in vain ? What God might ha●● done antecedently to this Sentence , I will n●● say ; and I think it was a bold Question for 〈◊〉 Owen and Mr. Gilbert , but consequently on the he could not . If the Sentence were definitiv● and being once gone out of the mouth of Go● could not be recalled : then if not thou or th● Surety be intended , I cannot see , but that a S●●viour is precluded : God could not be true 〈◊〉 his word , if ever a Saviour died for man , an● not man himself : with me there is no rem●●●●● the immediate Offender , the actual Transgr●●sor and his Descendents must die . But I wi●● not launch out here .

Mr. Alsop , Mr. Williams , and Mr. Lobb an● all three men of great worth , and there is n●● necessity in a Controversie to magnifie one and depretiate another . Mr. Lobb , when young ▪ was an Old Boy , one of great learning and deep thoughts , and therefore it was no small Error to represent him to the World as an unfit man● for an Argument or a Disputation . I have hear● Mr. Williams laugh at them that have censure● Mr. Lobb's preaching , and heard him say , H● was a great Preacher ; and I think these two might soon be good friends , were it not for ill Agents between both .

They both have written well against the Crispians or Antinomians , the impenitent Believers , as I often call them , of this Age , who make Faith Assurance , and this to be had without any Grace or Change in man , fetching its Ranges in the Regions of Love , as I heard a D. lately to preach , and so this Faith brings down Sanctification . Now I would fain know , whether this Faith be a living Faith , or a dead Faith ; if a living Faith , whether this be not a part of Sanctification ; if a dead Faith , whether there be any thing in God's Promise , or in the nature of the thing it self , that this dead Faith should bring down Sanctification . We are often ask'd , would we not advise ungodly men to come to Christ ?

1. If they mean by coming to Christ a believing Christ is the Author and Finisher of every Grace , none deny it ; here we direct them .

2. But if they mean a perswasion they belong to Christ , tho' they have not repented , this we deny ; Repentance , we know , among those men is nothing ; they keep the Name , and make it as Faith , but part with the Thing , Compunction , and Sadness , and Heart-rending . When Peter saw three thousand prickt to the heart , and they askt him and the rest of the Apostles , men and brethren , what shall we do ? he said unto them , Repent . Some would think the Answer wa● more legal than the Question : What! bi●● nose prickt to the heart repent ! Yes , and things nough . They ask us , How will we bid me● come to Christ ? I answer , in his way , and after his manner , Mar. 28. Come unto me you tha● labour , and are heavy laden . 55 Isa. 1 , Ho , every one that thirsteth , come ye to the waters : R●●pent , the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand , wa● the preaching of Christ , his Forerunner and his Followers . Repentance and Faith is the Scripture-method and order , 20 Acts 21. If Faith be sometimes mentioned without Repentance ▪ it supposeth it ; as when Repentance is mentioned without Faith it intends it .

Alas R. you talk as if you were preaching to the Author of Justification on Satisfaction . The Interest of Reason in matters of Religion , &c ▪ when I have done with those things , and am the : Author of a Book wherein K. W. is charg●● 〈◊〉 with having Testimonials by him at Kensington , of his being reconcil'd to the Church of Rome , and the late Book against Mr. Alsop , now discoursed of . As for Religion , I trouble not my self about it , but to serve a Turn . I am of Glanvil's mind in the Vanity of Dogmatizing , 〈◊〉 or what his Friend says before ,

There is no demonstration , But only thine , which shews there 's none .

You know the two Reynolds and D. Allebasters ingenious Verses ,

Concurrere pares , & cecidere pares , &c. I will never trouble my Head or Heart abouts was did Mr. K. of T. College in Cambridge , 〈…〉 ●●leful Verses I have heard coming from 〈…〉 cut his own Throat — From

From Heaven , as a Scourge of Pride , All Decisiion is deny'd , &c.

The burden of the whole was , Weep Eyes , sigh Soul , and Body pine , Was ever Sorrow like to mine ?

All that can be prov'd from hence is , that we should lie humbly at the Feet of God for Direction , carry it charitably towards our Brethren for tolerable Errors , and search our heart whether there be not some beloved Lust , which may make that Holy Spirit to withdraw its Irradiations or Consolations . But on this , to sit down with the Drunkard , to be partaker with 01 the Adulterer , to rap out an Oath sometimes to comport with the company , will be Bitterness in the latter end . You know , Friend F. that I do many thousands of times reprove and counsel you , when no one is present but you and I : at Bed , at Board , in Closet , at home and abroad , I many thousands of times ring a woful Pealin your Ears ; you will not hear , but drown all Convictions in your Cups with a wicked Generation —

And whereas you so much censure Mr Alsop , for being so jocular , condemn only the Ex●ess . I remember I have heard what Mr. Capel s●ud to , one that reproved him for Jests , Repartees for 2 or 3 hours together , Sir , this is my Physick for the Distempers I carry about me . — I grant the Remedy may be ( and sometimes is ) worse than the Disease , when unseasonable for time , and excessive for use , but to damn men for those things , and say , they ●●●e no Grace , is a sowre humour much worse than Levity . Good Mr. Showers lately , in a well studied Sermon at Salters-hall , greatly bewail'd our late Divisions , as hardning the prophane , sadning the righteous , putting back the well inclin'd , spoiling even civil conversation , &c. Sir , I desire you ( desire your Friends too ) not to lie out of sight when you write Books , let the Accused know , one way or other , who the Accusers are . Mr. Lobb , Mr. Williams , Mr. Alsop , are known to be the Authors of their Books , but as for the little sneaking Vnion Historian , and the Socks and Buskinman , some can but conjecture , others not that .