IF A. S. his heart with discontent be rent in two peices ( as he saith in his Epistle ) to hear the innocent bleatings of that wronged Lambe the Apologie ; surely our hearts more justly may be rent in twenty peices to hear and see this roaring Lyon-like Reply , with his many claws of Observations , Annotations , Considerations , and Notes , renting and tearing that modest and innocent thing , and no man saying to him , Why doest thou so ? Is this the use men make of pressing Sermons , and printed Considerations to stay and wait what the Assembly would do ; that some preach , and others print for their own way , on the one side , whilest the other stand still to be beaten , muffled and bound up from speaking by Pen and Presse without much striving ? The Apologie did but tell men with as gracious words and as much sweetnesse as a thing could speak , how farre they did recede from , and disclaim Separation and Brownisme ; and how neer they did accedere cloze with the present reformed Churches , even beyond the expectation of thousands , and see how many stinging flyes are and about to alight upon this youngling newly eaned . One buzzing to the other , as one Raven inviting another , at this lambing-time of the yeer , that the young brood , at the same minute may see the light and loose their eyes .

How many Replyes in two or three weeks , appearingly have turned the world , if not the Church , upside down ; most men seeming to be resolved before the Arguments are solved ?

Beleeve it , it works more upon the spirits of the best men , then ever any thing yet that befell this Kingdom . Things before were irregular enough , but now preposterous ; before resolute enough , now violent ; before the body of the Kingdom , the Common-wealth , was sore sick , now the soul , the Church , to mens thinking , lies gasping .

It was observed on the date of the Title , by one in a more cheerful The date of A S. his book . So some of the best Astronomers long since prognosticated that 1640. plus minus should begin Totius mundi universalis insania . The title of the book . temper , then that Answerer can willingly be at the sight of such a Book , thus ; In the beginning of March ( that rougb Moneth ) the Sun being ecclipsed , and the Moon changed but a day or two before ) A. D. 1644 , part of the Astronomers criticall time of almost an universall madnesse ( witnesse all the Cavaliers , and many Scholars ) which hath cost our prudent and worthy Parliament , and Armies of Scotland first , and then of England , much care to cure as fast as they can ; There bolts forth a wilde book , swiftly running like a March-Hare , hunted through a town , causing such a shout like that among the Philistines , as if the Ark of God were taken , the Churches were surprised . Just like that Hare that running through the Army that besieged Rome occasioned the Souldiers so lowdly to now her , that the Romanes thought verily that their works were stormed , and their City taken . But away . Non est conveniens luctibus ista loqui .

The title of the book in the title page and the first page is , Some Observations , Annotations , and Generall Considerations upon the Apologeticall Narration , humbly submitted to the Honorable Houses of Parliament , the most reverend and learned Divines of the Assembly , and all the Protestant Churches here in this Island , and abroad .

A title carrying a great breadth with it , and soaring high , as if A. S. were confident that in his book he speaks learnedly , as a Scholer , truly , as an honest man , gravely , as a serious man , and lovingly as a Christian man ; and that all these wayes he did make good that title , which if it be shaped to the book , and read according to the rode thereof , I speak it seriously and with a sad heart ( these being no times nor things for jesting or jeering , which is the faults of A. S. ) A Parliament man said A. S. jeer'd . Another gentleman said , he liked not the spirit of the man , yet neither of them Independents . may most justly be read thus : In Observations and in considerations simply committed against the Honorable Houses of Parliament , the reverend Assembly of Divines , and the Protestant Churches at home and abroad .

For this one single simple A. S. now starts up by himself , peremptorily to state , and determine the Questions , for the resolution whereof the Parliament thought the Assembly of Divines few enough to undertake ; and therefore call'd all them together for that purpose , who are now most intent upon the pin of the controversie ; yet as if A. S. would take the work out of their hands , he will anticipate , and fore-judge the five Ministers as utterly erring throughout ( for he sifts them corn after corn ) which if true , the dispute is at an end . Go then A. S. and carrie , if you dare , your platform to the Parliament , and intreat the learned Assembly to dissolve .

But , A. S. will go his own way , and thereby he hath given great offence to the Protestant Churches , to charge them all of dissenting from the five Ministers , and awakning mens spirits into replyes , when before they were drowsing with long expectation these two yeers of a publick determination , and I wish this may be the last Reply before all things be sweetly composed . However this intends onely to take off aspersions , not to lay down assertions . We will but barely answer A. S. who hath so lasht the five Ministers , with so much sharpnesse of spirit , for telling the world how farre off they are from Brownisme and Separation , and how close they come to the more reformed Churches in Scotland and England . Many very good men have wondred that the five Ministers closed so much ; yet A. S. is bitterly angrie they close no more , before the point be disputed . O it was a fault of the Cynick Phylosopher in his high shooes so to dance on the Platonick Phylosophers bed and Arras Coverlet , with boasting , that he danced on his brother Philosophers pride , as that the patient Phylosopher could justly reply , yea , saith he , Thou dancest on my pride with thy greater pride .

How much of this is A. S. his , I say not ; but sure it was the unseasonablest if not the most unsavourie book to multitudes of spirituall palates , as ever wise man put forth .

Yet James Cranford is quoted by the Printer in the page before the Title , as approving it and the book with a Licentious approbation , in these words ; These judicious Observations and Annotations , &c. as being at this time necessarie and seasonable for the vindication of all Protestant Churches , defending the authority of Parliaments and Synods , and prevention of division amongst our selves , ( though I reverence the persons of the Apologists , yet ) I approve to be impressed .

Mr. Cranford , if the Printer hath dealt faithfully with you , let me intreat you ( and the Lord help you ) to see your self , ask your conscience , aske your reason , aske the book it selfe , whether there be one true clause in all that you have said ?

Are these Observations , &c. of A. S. judicious , that are extra judiciall and prejudicall to the publike peace and order , and ordinance for dispute , prejudging and adjudging them , who joyntly with the grave Assembly , A. S. acknowledgeth the Arbitratour , or Judge , if not his Judge , in the matters in question ? Are they at this time necessary , when the grave Commissioners of Scotland , had with farre more prudence and soliditie then A. S. said by way of reply so much to the Apologie , Nemine reclamante , none replying till A. S. was abroad ? Is there any need to bring a great printing presse , to squeese to death a poor worme trodden on before ? Or to bring many leavers to break an egge , that makes small resistance ? The truth is , A. S. his Observations are like a man with a Pole-axe , knocking a man on the head , to kill a fly lighting on his beard .

For though he sayth , he humbly submitteth to the Protestant Churches , yet he lays about him , as if he would knock them all down unto a submission to A. S. whosoever they be that will not stoop to his book . For though he thinks that all Protestant and Christian Churches are for him rather then for the five Ministers , as he intimates in the beginning of his Epistle , and therefore in all likelihood , professeth a submission to them ; yet he will find many Churches in London ( he would wonder if we should name how many ) that will not submit to his book , and yet come to the publike Ordinance , doe not separate , but are most willing to submit to the truth , regularly discussed , cleared , and brought down to them . Yet still James Cranford stands fixed in the Licence page , in black and not blush , for asserting that A. S. his Observations , &c. are judicious and necessary . When as they are neither , unlesse preposterousnesse , abuse of good men , and the disturbance of the people , be judicious and necessary . For though the ensuing answer will prove them evill , yet they will never be proved necessary evills . They are not so much as civilly necessary , either necessitate praecepti , as commanded by Parliament , or Assembly , or necessitate medij , as usefull to compose , but indispose the minds of men , to embrace things prejudiced with the violence of private spirits . Men will not so easily be whipt and compelld by one inferior .

Againe , Are the Observations seasonable , which doe but interstrepere , make a noyse , whilst the Divines are disputing , drawing the people together in heaps , there taking up their parts , to defend , one against another , and pre-ingage themselves before they come to heare what the Assembly will say ? For such a book cannot come forth , but it makes a thousand dispute in a week , every one then contending for his owne , when it is so irregularly and illegally taken from him . Are they for the vindication of all Protestant Churches , when as in condemning the Apologie , they condemne many , very many Churches in England , many in Holland , generally all in New-England , notwithstanding some private Letters and Manuscripts sent over , to which we shall answer afterwards . Are they for the defence of the authoritie of Parliament , in opposition to the Apologie ? doth the Apologie touch one hayre of the honourable heads of the Parliament ? Are not the five Ministers chidden some where in print , for saying R. C. they allow more to the Civill Magistrate , then they think others principles can ? Doth not A. S. snib them too for going ( as he thinks in their Apologie ) Pag . 4. to the civill Magistrate ? Doth not A. S. in his book give a negative vote against the civill Magistrates directive power in matters of Pag . 5. Religion ?

I will not by Gods help wrong the A. S. in an hayre of thy head , therefore I relate not all you say , but let me say what I think , which to say will do you no harme . If the resolutions of the Divines be not digested by the reason and graces of the houses of Parliament , and so made as their own sence , for ought I know they will never be turned into a Statute . Are these Observations for the defence of the authoritie of Synods , in opposition to the Apologie ? What Synods ? Scripture-Synods ? Where doth the Apologie whimper against them ? or do you mean classicall ones ? If so , that s the question . And so you proclaime a defence of that which yet hath no existence . The question is not resolved . Lastly , Are these Observations for prevention of sad division amongst our selves .

Well , Mr. Cranford , you have by this endeavoured to set Divines together by the eares More ecclesiastico , your licentiating hath in abled men to give the second blow , upon which , the common Law layeth the breach of the peace . And notwithstanding you licence these Annotations , yet you say you reverence the persons of the Apologists . A pinne for such complements , Love me , and love the truth . Let us measure your respect to them , whilest the advantage of the higher ground whereon it stands be removed . Away with your dare verba , your froathy words ; This is the truth , so much you respect them , as A. S. respects them . And so much have you spoken judiciously , truly , and seasonably , as A. S. hath spoken , and no more . If he be cast , you will be condemned . Stand by Mr. Cranford , and heare A. S. tryed , and in him your selfe .

You were not contented to say Imprimatur , Let it be printed suitable to a Licencer , but you adde , I approve to be impressed . What s this great long ( I ) which intimates that nothing above the length thereof , or without the cranie of his great ( C ) approving it , must be printed ? This makes I. C. worse then the B B. Their Chaplains might licence many things , if not contrary to the orthodox doctrine and good manners . They would licence a book endeavouring to prove there was a world in the Moon , Novitatis ergo ( it s their own expression ) though they did not beleeve the thing . But C the half Moon will licence nothing but what falls within the semicircle of his approbation .

To the right reverend Divines , the Authors of the Apologeticall Narration . The Epistle .

The Authors of the Apologeticall Narration desire more of your right , though they have lesse of your reverence . Had I written a book with so much unreverence , I would either have blotted out my title Right Reverend , or else I should never have put in that Episcopall stile , Most Reverend , and Right Reverend , seeing the Bishops are going . For to stroke in the title , and to strike in the book , is but flattery , if not grosse dissimulation . Or as to say , Art thou in health my brother , and in the meane while to strike under the fift rib .

The high esteem I have ever had of your persons , &c. except onely in your particular opinions , wherein the dissent from all Protestant , yea all Christian Churches in the world .

Now let the Protestant Churches ( to whom you say you submit ) judge whether in these words , there be not a notorious untruth . For wherein do the five Ministers and their Churches differ from many Churches in England , diverse in Holland , and generally all within the Patent of New-England , if you account these places Protestant ?

It may be you will object , Mr. Parkers Letter and some Manuseripts from New-England , and the Letter from Zealand . To Mr. Parker his Letter we need say little , the Letter will answer for us , though Mr. Parker little thought when he wrote it , to find an A. S. in England , or that his brother Bayly would have printed his Letter seemingly to anticipate the disputation of the Assembly , as if he meant to beg the question , though but with shews and shadows .

1 Mr. Parker sayth not one word for a Classicall Presbyterie , ( the main difference in hand ) but for a Congregationall , that he would have in some things more managed by the Presbyters of every Congregation , without putting every thing to the vote of the people of the Congregation , because some confusion hath followed upon it . Doth in necessaries abuse take away the use ? There was confusion in the Church of Corinth . Or is there any mention of this in the Apologie , that all businesses of the Church must be put to the vote of the Congregation ?

2 That in that thing onely there hath been an arguing on both fides . Mr. Parker and Mr. Noyse only are mentioned in the letter , to be on the one side , and all the other Churches on the other , against Mr. Parker and Mr. Noyse . And thirdly , Mr. Parker doth not say he won the day , but as he answered their Arguments ( as he saith ) so he confesseth they answered his Arguments , and the thing is left to consideration . Yea a godly man of New-England told me that the Churches of New-England did conceive that Mr. Parker had received full satisfaction from them in that point . How ever it were all amounts but to a private letter subscribed by one man , yet Imprimatur saith I. C. as if much to the purpose . But look but a little afterward to our answer to a Letter from Zealand , and you shall find the judgement of New-England in letters newly come over .

To any private copies or Manuscripts from New-England : one Mr. Rutherfoard hath answered , as too much jumping with the Apologie and opposite to Classicall Presbyterie . Another , if it had come forth , would have been keener against A. S. then the Apologie is . So that if the Apologie do differ from that , it s onely because the Apologie more agrees with the reformed Churches of this Island . And for the third , it hath nothing at all for a Classicall Presbyterie , but some things touching the ordering of Congregationall Presbyteries , and all these are but private intelligencers , and mutuall advicers , not determinations or Nationall . No more then , I suppose , Mr. Cranford or A. S. will account the strange Queries on the Apologie and Scotch Commissioners Reply to be the sence of New-England , though but of one man of that Countrey .

As for the Letter of Zealand , I cannot tell how to speake all the truth , and not offend some , whom by my will I would not in the least displease . Sure this will not offend to tell A. S. that in Holland , if not in Zealand , are some Churches that are fully with the five Ministers , unto which some of them do relate . And to speak these things to the Letter it selfe , being matters of fact , I hope cannot justly offend . 1. That that Letter came admirably punctuall upon the very nick after the first reply to the Apol . was out . 2. That a Scottish Knight nine or ten dayes before it was known abroad , that it was to come , said , What if yee receive a Letter from Zealand , disliking the Apologie ? or to that effect . 3. That there is a Scottish Church ( of which one Spang is a very busie agent ) at Trevere , hard by Middleborough , whence the Letter came . 4. That there are in it many high passages , seeming so prejudiciall to our worghy Magistracy , that it justifies that of the Apologie , saying , That the five Ministers , &c. give more to the Civill Magistrates , then the principles of some Presbyterians do . The said Letter giving so too little to the Magistracy , that the State of England , I thinke , cannot approve it here among us . Verbum sapienti sat est . More may be thought , upon evident grounds , but not spoken here . 5. Most happily by almost a miraculary providence in this nick of time came two Letters from New-England to countermand Mr. Parkers Letter thence , and the other from Zealand .

The first from Mr. Winthrop Governor of New-England , To his Reverend , and very good Brother , Mr. Hugh Peters Minister of the Gospel , these deliver in London . Our late Assembly of about fourtie Elders met , wherein the way of our Churches was approved , and the Presbytery disallowed .

Winthrop , Governor . Decemb . 10th . 1643.

The second from another of New-England , to another Minister in Old-England , about the same time , wherein we have these passages . We have had , sayth he , a Synod lately in our Colledge , wherein sundry things were agreed on gravely , as , That the votes of the people are needfull in all admissions and excommunications , at least in way of consent ; all yeelding to act with their consent . 2. That those that are fit matter for a Church , though they are not alwayes able to make large and particular relations of the worke and doctrine of faith , yet must not live in the commission of any known sin , or the neglect of any known dutie . 3. That consociation of Churches in way of more generall meetings yeerly , and more private monethly or quarterly , as Consultative Synods are very comfortable and necessary for the peace and good of the Churches . 4. It was generally desired that the exercitium of the Churches power , might onely be in the Eldership in each particular Church , unlesse their times be apparent in their worke . 5. That parishes Churches in Old England could not be right without a renewed Covenant at least , and the refusers excluded . And were not New-England so farre , the Churches of New-England would soon send a third , punctually to approve the Apologie , unlesse it be for their neerer complyance with them who notwithstanding have written against them .

We have been the longer in answer to this clause , because we find A. S. to be but the Text of other mens Commentary discourses ; who say , That the five Ministers will oppose all the visible Christian Churches in the world . If they did , it were not such a wonder , as for one Wickliff in one age , one Husse in another , and Luther in a third to oppose all the world .

The truth is , all Churches generally , partly by tyrannie , and partly by securitie , are grown so corrupt , that to apologize for a through Reformation seems to reprove all , and so all are readie to be offended , that are lesse reformed . We have heard of sad stories of late but true , ( not teld in a corner ) of the lamentable over-spreading of Popery , Atheisme , drunkennesse in some Kingdoms , and adulterie , formalitie , &c. in others . If we reform but in part , by halves , imitating Hen . 8. towards the Pope , cutting off the head of Prelacie , and sitting down in their chair , ( similia non sunt contraria ) as Mr. Davenport meeting with a Classicall Presbyterie in his way to New-England , said they were but thirteen Bishops , for one ) the cry of the sin against our light and opportunitie will call back our reeling Reformation ( like will hasten to like ) an unblest posture will leave us unhealed of our sins ; and our sins will make us become any thing . Had not the Abbeys been pulled down , the Priories since had had opportunitie to have risen . Therefore Moses grinds the Idol to powder , that it might be quite abolished . I speak all this by way of supposition , what shall upon full debate be found to be the idol , the nest of Poperie , the chaire of Prelacie , the half-reformation .

Thus of your charging the five Ministers with dissenting from all Protestant Churches . The expression that follows is a most grosse one . That they differ from all Christian Churches . I say grosse in two things . 1 To call them Churches , and Christian , that are not Protestant ( and ergo are Popish ) now since the Councell of Trent , wherein they gave Christ a bill of divorce ( as the learned assert ) anathematizing most of his maine truths . The popish ( notwithstanding a few Saints in secret here and there ) are in a dependence on Antichrist . 2 To charge it as a crime on the five Ministers to differ from them , when as it is a sin and shame not to dissent from them . If you dissent not from them , you will never kindly dissent from the entitled Mo . R. A. BB . and Rt. Rev. BB . I observe that men in their Replies secretly afore they are aware run to the popish marks of a Church , viz. visibilitie , succession , universalitie . ☞

You as my self , are but men , yet ye know but in part , and consequently may erre .

Yet this one man thinks he hath more knowledge to his part then the other five Ministers , or else sure he would not so boldly condemne them of erring , in a point which all the Assembly have not yet determined ; and so peremptorily acquit himself .

I thought this which is the question between you and all the Churches in the Christian world .

This untruth comes thick upon us , that the Apol . differs from all the Christian world . It is intimated in the title . It is expressed in the very beginning of the Epistle , and here again , and once more in 3. pag . of the Ep. and once in Consid . 5. and how oft more in the book I do not yet know , till I find as I go . We have answered it once for all in the threshold of this Epistle .

I esteemed it no lesse a part of my dutie and Christian libertie , as a man to oppose my self to five men : then for five men to oppose five hundred thousand , &c.

Hear ye , O all ye men on earth , that A. S. saith it is his Christian libertie to oppose the five Ministers . But the whole scope of his book is to rebuke them upon supposition that they do oppose others , whiles they tell them wherein they agree with them . One instance follows at the heel of his Christian libertie ; to which by and by . Mean while , Reader , observe how this mans words do smell popisbly ( though I think the man to be a reall Protestant ) as if came from Rome , intimating as if visibilitie , universalitie , and so pluralitie of voices of learned men , might be an unerring , or very certain argument . He speaks as if he had forgot or never heard of Wickliff , many yeers after him Husse , long after him Luther opposing justly the whole world , as we all religiously maintain at this day . And that one Paphnutius opposed a whole Councell ( mistaken in a point ) which is upon record of Historie , to his great honour to this day .

Five men to oppose so many learned men , so many holy Divines , hundreds , and thousands for one of you , no way inferiour to the learnedst and best among you , and not onely to particular men and Divines , but to so many , yea and those the most pure , and most reformed Churches of the world , amongst whom there have been found so many thousands who have sealed Christs truth with the losse of their goods , imprisonment of their bodies , by exile of their persons , yea with their dearest blood , and lives , who if they wrote not miracles , yet God declared his almightie power in working miracles about them , &c.

Here we have in form ( and I will not say how much more ) a Popish argument , I will not say a mopish argument , I abhor flying on men in stead of matter . To this I will speak , and then they that will be deceived let them be deceived . First , you Doctrines & practises prove men good , not men , doctrines and practises good . dub such a number of men and people Saints , most reformed , learned no way inferiour to the learnedst , and best among the five Ministers , as if you knew perfectly all mens spirits , mens lives in all places in the world , and the five Ministers parts , &c. intus & in cute . Then secondly , as before you came , what R. Reverend and most Reverend ( I desire to speake it no other way then with a Christian griefe and anger against such Sophismes ) so now you Cant to us as it were the Popish Prelaticall Letanie , and Te Deum , As if by the temptations and fastings , by the passions , by the deaths and burialls of suffering Christians ; The noble armie of Martyrs praising the holy Church throughout all the world acknowledging , you would conjure us to yeeld any thing upon pluralitie of voyces , or topick arguments , that may and are turned every way , and used by all sorts good and bad for their own wayes .

1. Men living in a notorious sinne of grosse usury , unjust enclosures , monopoliting , &c. First , They will tell you of severall Ministers , &c. very holy men ; and then secondly , They will tell you that those Ministers do approve of those things .

2. The Malignants now cry , that so many good Lords , so many Parliament men , most of two Kingdomes are for the King , Ergo , the King doth well , beleeve it who so will . A touch on W. R. his book , called , The grave Confutation , &c.

The Papists proclaime , that they have pluralitie of voyces , Martyrs , &c. Ergo , they are in the right .

So the Prelacie tell us , that of Bishops were many Martyrs ( to which Smectymnuus answers ) by them was composed the Liturgie , and they have a thousand for one for them , ( so they had formerly ) and most of the learned Doctors , &c. Scholars , Divines and Lawyers were for them , therefore they were in the right .

Then some of our respected brethren of the reputed godly Non-Conformists come in a title of a book thus , A most grave and modest Confutation of the errors of the sect commonly called ( as W. R. sayth ) Brownists or Seperatists ( so his skill writes it for Separatists ) agreed 〈…〉 by the joynt consent of sundry godly and learned Ministers of this Kingdomes then standing out and suffering in the cause of Inconformitie , and now published in a time of need What now all , or the greatest part of them , come to our publick meetings , and the Apol . disclaims Separation , & Brownisme ? unlesse you would drive them to corners again . &c. against that pernicious evill . Published by W. R. As if their sufferings were a seale of the just length of reformation , how far we must go , and no further . When as the most of them stood only upon the negative part , What they would not have , but only a few declared positively , of which some for a Congregational presbytery or Church-way , be it , or be it not , a pernicious evill , as W. R. calls it . God forbid , that if we have suffered for Christ , in the behalfe of any piece of truth , that therefore we should pride up our selves as having done so much ; or stint our selves from proceeding further in knowledge , or affright our selves from suffering more , if more truths be to be contended for , as the Apostle speaks ; or least of all through the sides of Brownisme or Separation , to wound the truth and Saints of Jesus Christ , just in the nick of such reproachings cast upon them that disclaime in words and practise all pernicious Brownisme , &c. It cannot be forgotten that the choicest doctrines held in England , have been called pernicious heresie . And therefore it is an high peremptorinesse in a generall title to call all those things pernicious evils , some of which are truths . We have , and do disclaim Separation and Brownisme , properly so called .

But if the Pope or the Devill Mark . 1. 24. confesse Christ , we will not therefore call that truth , a pernicious evill . I suppose all that W. R. booke sets forth in heads , and Chapters , as to be confuted , are some of those things he means are pernicious evils . As , 1. That pag . 8. Many parish-Churches are not rightly gathered , 2. That p. 11. That they Communicate in a false and idolatrous worship , as stinted prayers , Homilies , Catechismes . 3. That p. 17. They want that Discipline and order which Christ in his Testament hath appointed for the government of his Church . 4. That p. 50. That it is objected against them , that the ignorant and prophane multitude are admitted to all priviledges of the Churches .

Are these ( we give but a taste ) pernicious evills ? Then you condemne Smectymnuus for writing , the Parliament and Assembly for removing and about to remove these exceptions ; And most presbyterian Ministers in London for forbearing to give Communions to such multitudes . Mr. Calamy sayd , that an imposed Liturgie was idolatrie . And our worthy brethren of Scotland justly stood up against these enormities . No wonder therefore if W. R. book abound with weaknesses & impertinencies , in stead of Confutation of such things as these . For I patronage not any false or unadvised speeches of Barrow , or &c. there used .

3. A. S. saying , That the Apologists differ from the most reformed Churches in the world . Some of which he knows are in Holland , more in England , most in New-England , all publick Churches , if he speakes not falsly , or ignorantly ; yet begging the Question , whether the Churches named , or the Classicall presbyterian are most reformed ?

To close our answer to this , tell us no more of your mutitudes , the Lord keepe us all from the broad way that leadeth to destruction , though many there be therein . One Phinees , one Elijah left alone in the eye of the world , two against thousands , viz. Caleb and Josuah in the truth are more to be honoured , then swarmes of swarvers ( I judge none . ) The time is at hand , that ten men shall take hold of one Jew Zech . 8. 23. , and so on one true Christian . Godly men may be hunted out of a Kingdom , not out of the truth , meane while such a Kingdom may be without them , but nere the more without judgements . England was never quiet , but worse and worse , since it hunted away almost a little Nation of Saints to New-England , though W. R. joyning issue with A. S. will follow them , with a blotting pen in print , even to that Kingdom too . Yea and take in his way many Churches in old England , and some that are and lately were in Holland , and then have at New-England , none comes amisse that have gone an inch in reformation beyond W. R. his Non-Conformitie . Like him who would strike all that were next him , who e're they were that injured him . And all this worke he cuts out for himselfe in his book he calls A Narration of some Church courses in New-England .

☞ O that all Readers that will not be wilfully blind , would by the way observe , how A. S. condemnes the Apologists , as guiltie of dissenting from the Churches in New-England . And W. R. condemnes them for agreeing with the Churches of New-England . So that A. S. and W. R. do not agree between themselves . But you shall have an Answer to that book of W. R. affixed at the end of this book . Meane while wee go forward with A. S.

I am perswaded in my Conscience , that your opinion of Independency , &c. if it were admitted ( pardon my expression till I be better instructed ) could not but prove the roote of all sorts of Schisme and Heresie , and consequently the utter overthrow of Christs universall militant Church .

If you speake cordially , as supposing indeed that you may be better instructed , it had been best for you to have stayd for the Assemblyes determination , or to have conferred with some of them you write against , before you had written and printed that desperate speech , least the ink seeme letters of bloud to you at your dying pillow . I warrant you , if what one , or many say onely , would make an argument , a multitude would say , that a coactive classicall presbytery would be the root of couched prelacy , and ecclesiasticall Tyranny . But I will not be one of them to say so . Probatum est ; in New-England that which you call independency , hath not procured , but cured , or purged out heresies , schismes , formalitie , prophanenesse , more then some other Kingdoms that so hate and hitt at mis-called Independency .

You sue for a Toleration , and consequently for a Separation .

So then , where Papists are tolerated , there they are Separatists too . It s but the nown of multitude between , but that the Independents in England might tolerate , and the presbyterians might be tolerated , would they then be Separatists ? Who desires separation ? but rather union in the truth . If any hold the truth , and stumble , though of weaknes , at some smaller matters ( as you count them ) it is your dutie to suffer them , and to beare with the weak , and not offend the consciences of brethren ; or Gods woe is by him pronounced against you .

I may adde to all these your undervaluing of the Parliaments great favour towards you . For yee know brethren , how they notwithstanding your former separation from all other Churches , &c. invited you to be members of this Assembly , had not they given you the capacitie , yee had been altogether incapable . And not onely that , but they honoured one of you with the high favour of sending one of you with their Commissioners to Scotland .

O abominable accusation , O sycophantising insinuation . Who art . A. S. Cujas . Can an English-man , unjesuited , or any Minister unprelatised , or any man honestised , say thus ? I am distressed how to put home to this , and yet prudently . I tell thee , A. S. Thy accusation is a grosse falshood . For their respect to the Parliament , and their respect from the Parliament , let many of the choice members of both Houses speake , they will soon prove thee a grosse — . Thy probation a sillie phantasie . Did ever any vote of the Parliament , or of the Assembly , accuse the Apologie of undervaluing the Parliaments favours ? None but he that hath A. S. as part of his name , would say so . For all discreet men see plainly , that as the forme and stile of the Apologie is most sweet , so the matter now in hand so much as is there intimated , is the question . Can that be an offence to the Parliament , for the five Ministers to propound that of the things they are to debate ( by Ordinance of Parliament ) which is to them the question , making it ready , and leaving it for debate in the Assembly ? Yea , whether the whole draught of the Apologie be to be condemned or commended by the Parliament , that is also a question yet unresolved , by Parliament , Assembly , and a considerable part of Citie and Kingdome . Therefore why doth one A. S. presumptuously make it a crime against the Parliament ? Since the thrice worthy March 13. 1643. Parliament had it in debate in the house , being put on by the Letters from Middleborough in Zealand , and upon the speech of learned Mr. Seldon , and others , they resolved with a generall acclamation , that the Apologie was to be left as it was found , unblamed . The God of heaven in much mercy blesse the Parliament , as for all the good they have done , so for their uprightnesse therein . The joy of the Churches is now as high as their sorrows would have been deep , had it been condemned . For it would to them have been not onely a dolefull ante , or anti , but-anticipating-presage . But blessed be our Parliament-guiding God ; that as they had no hand in the Apologie , so they would have no hand against it . Therefore away A. S. Operam & oleum perdidisti ( as the Starling said to the Emperour , having saluted him in vaine with {αβγδ} ) you have lost your labour . The Parliament despise sycophantising Collogueing ; ( Are you as wise as that bird to see that , it said ? ) ; and on the other side they do not repent of what honour they conferred on Mr. Nye , and through For the Parliament in wisdome chose some Episcopall men to be of the Assembly , to plead their owne cause if they could . Some of which since cast out themselves , and others were cast out . him on his brethren of the same judgement . They could not but think ( what ever you dreame ) but that the five Ministers were in as neere a capacitie to be of the Assembly , &c. being native Englishmen , and against the Episcopacy , as either those of other Nations , or those of our owne , in judgement holding for Episcopacy ; and standing for the just and lawfull authoritie of Magistracy as either .